Religion Rants

My Thoughts On Religion (Last update 9/1/03)
Ok, so i doubt anyone wants to hear my thoughts but people need to suffer right? Good, my problem is worshipping, why should you? why should you have to bow down to anything, why consider someone else higher than you and consider you and others around you lower than the one you choose to worship? why this why that? Consider this, conforming, changing your life to fit someone elses, doing what someone else says you should for your whole fuckin life. Do you want this? Should you want this? Well you make that choice. For me, i refuse to think anyones higher or lower than me, i believe in equality, everyones the same, no one better or worse, Because i believe in equality i decide not to worship. People who say oh yeah i believe in peace unity equality and are of chrisianity, ARE THE MOST HYPOCRITICAL FUCKS ive ever met. You read a book, you shape and mold your whole existance around it, but why, are you scared? are you threatened? Whats in it for you? enlightenment? NO.....you either get promised to go away when you die to heaven, the place your parents told you about when you were too small to think for yourself,where your parents pushed you into church every sunday for the rest of your life, like their parents did before. Its a chain, you pray you slave away to someone else, you get guaranteed happiness when you die. But how do you know huh? wheres your proof, i relie on scientific facts, not myths, i relie on proof, and you dont. I think the commandments are like laws, or rules or something to let your parents know you wont be a criminal in life because you fear of going to "hell", it is nearly impossible to go dayly without commiting a "sin" , im gonna call these sins living. As a young person, i am still confused about the world i am in and havea lot of learning to do (on my own terms not anyone elses) but even when i was a small dress wearing 7 year old in a church/daycare, i questioned religion and why i should have to be a puppet. Why was i singing these songs? Why did i have to pray? I relie on myself for how my life goes not someone who ive never seen or met or even had faith in, i have faith in myself, i dont want to have someone dictate my life or my descisions, there mine , its that simple. Than you see bush on the news, "god bless" this "god bless" that, what about us atheists? OH WAiT, were un-american because we dont believe in this crap? than good, id be fuckin proud of myself , i dont worry about these standards of "america", the white christian american, all these new found christians all because of 9/11 (it couldve been prevented ya know?) there all so fuckin scared of what can happen, what they dont realize has happened for years But than again, no one really knows, so what right do i have to go preeching to you about how your a slave and how i have it so lucky.
this is by claire (mydeception@hotmail.com) Oi oi oi, here you go. Not knowing even where to begin the rant I was asked to write (PEER PRESSURE. It kills!), I suppose I'm just supposed to jump in and start screaming my defiance, my discontent, my rage at my surroundings and at how I've been portrayed by people who don't even know me. I'm not a Christian, I'm not male, I'm certainly not what people want me to be, judging from half the looks I get from complete strangers. Growing up as part of the general American public, in the generally conservative New England, Christianity was supposed to be a given. When I was little, I believed in God. I don't know exactly when I stopped believing, but I know now that my mind can't begin to wrap around the idea that there's some big person up in this magical place called heaven that makes everything happen for a reason. But if that's true, what good is AIDS? What good is the death of thousands of people at the mercy of religious radicals? What good is Holy War? Even beyond that, I don't see how people can just shovel their faith into the sky, and hide behind their "Jesus loves me!" bullshit. And what's more? How they can shove their Bibles at me, expecting me to take what they say as absolute truth, that God loves me and that he wants to fucking save me. Save me? Save me from what? Capitialism? Divorce? Battery? Rape? One of the other million things that really fucking NEEDS to change? Can he save the people, the fucking children, that are dying of hunger while the rich light up a few more cigars? Jeez, a fine job he's doing. Him and his perfection can just bite me. And, hey, yeah, sorry for not believing in your god, alright? Sorry for having different thoughts on how I should live MY life, instead of what some fucking BOOK tells me to do. I'm not going to live by your typical, piggish standards just so I can make my fucking country proud.* It's my right. Isn't it?
(9/1/03)This is a conversation about Theological theory from my pal Shannon(KralovnaKrasy83@aol.com) and a friend of hers
Tonight, I met a delightful young lady in the laundry room. After a short conversation, she invited me to her church service. I politely declined, saying that church wasn't my thing. When asked why, I replied, "Because I'm not a Christian anymore. I've moved to a different path." She asked what I am now. I replied, "I'm an atheist, actually." She seemed to be slightly concerned with this and asked if I was POSITIVE that God doesn't exist. This seems to be a common misconception of atheists by religious types (namely Christians)...they think that atheists are saying that they KNOW there is no God. Not true. If they KNEW there was no God, then they'd have undeniable, mathematical PROOF and EVERYONE would be an atheist. Allow me to clarify...

Atheism is another spiritual belief. Atheists just so happen to believe that there IS no God or higher power of any sort. They can't prove their belief that there is no god any more than a believer can prove that there is. People seem to think that atheists look down upon those who do have spiritual beliefs. Again, untrue. Most are very accepting and respect other peoples' spiritual beliefs, but they disagree. That's all. Disagreement comes with anything that has no proof. Everyone interprets things differently. That's fine. It's human nature. Believe in whatever makes sense to you. To us [atheists], it makes SENSE that God does not exist. Then people ask, "Why do you believe so?" There are many reasons. Each person has his or her own arguments against it. Many, unfortunately, either dodge the question or beg it, saying things like, "I just don't believe that there can be a higher power." or "There's too much strife and bullshit going on in the world...if God existed, it wouldn't happen." or "I need proof that there is a God or higher power." The latter is more of an agnostic argument than anything and the burden of proof still lies on the believer to provide evidence for God's existence. For an atheist, however, who says, "I believe that God does NOT exist.", the burden of proof lies upon him or her to provide reasons or evidence that are grounds for having such a belief, without avoiding the question.

I'm still pondering the problem and, as such, don't claim to have an answer. I do know, however, that the more I search, the more I believe that no God exists. I shall give some of my reasons. They're not conventional, in that, the reasons lead to the question, "Given this, how can God exist?" So, without further delay... To understand this first one, we'll have to look at time and energy. The first law of Thermodynamics states that the energy of the universe is constant, that is; energy can neither be created nor destroyed: there is a finite amount. The second law of Thermodynamics states that Entropy (energy's natural tendency to move to a state of disorder) in a closed system (the universe, which is infinitely large) is continually increasing. In short, the amount of energy in the universe is going from a more concentrated state, to being spread evenly throughout the universe. This means that matter in the universe has a beginning somewhere. Many different theories to this exist, of which, the Big Bang, being the most supported by scientific and mathematical evidence. So the concept of time results from this: it has its beginning (the Big Bang) and its "end" (when energy is so spread throughout the universe, that order can no longer exist)...one way to say it would be that the end of time, (E)= infinity - a finite amount (energy dispersed). A graphical model of time would look something like a spiral, with its origin as the Big Bang and the tip of its tail signifying the end of the organization of energy. So how does this relate to God? Believers will tell you that God is eternal: He has always been. How can this be, when evidence shows that time, as we know it, has a beginning? If God created the universe, then what could have created God? The answer I get to this question is rather amusing: most say, "God had the power to bring himself into being." To me, this answer dodges the question. Another contradiction relating to this eternity question is shown in the Bible, where Christ says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega: the beginning and the end." Again, if God is eternal, how can there be a beginning and an end when you look forward in time and see positive infinity ahead, then look back and see negative infinity behind?

The next question is one concerning free will. Believers tend to zealously defend the concept of free will, because it holds people morally responsible for their actions. Believers will also say that God is omnipotent. My argument here is: if God exists and is omnipotent and, therefore, KNOWS everything that will ever happen, including all that we do within our lives, then how can we have free will? Wouldn't knowledge of the future DETERMINE our fates after death? This is a contradiction to me, because, the way I see it, if God exists, then there can be no free will. How can we be held morally accountable for things that were going to happen despite anything we do? This hardly seems fair. And it goes against the beliefs that most people have about God. My next statement is arguable, insofar, that the issue is a huge debate itself, that goes outside of religion. I DON'T believe humans have free will. I believe instead that humans have free ACTION, not free will...philosophers would define my standpoint as being one of a "soft" determinist. Our wants, needs and desires all stem from influences from our environment (upbringing, society, life experience, etc.), as well as from our instincts (controlled namely by genetics). They are CAUSED by these things and we have no control over them. What we CAN control, however, is our actions, which may or may not reflect our internal desires, although most of the time, they do. Humans, like other animals, tend to act in a manner that will produce the most favorable result. This predictability of action, however, does not necessarily mean that it is absolutely what we're going to do...when faced with a situation, we can CHOOSE whether to nurture our instincts and act upon what we feel is in our best interests to do as we understand it at the time, or we can choose not to. More than likely, we'll choose what's in our nature to do, but nevertheless, it's still a choice of action.

Now, let's assume for a second that I believe in the existence of God, Heaven and Hell, and that they're compatible with free will, as I attempted to define it earlier. In Heaven, "Paradise" as it were, peoples' souls would not be free, they would be required to adhere to the laws that God set forth for them. Some might say that they would want to...want to? or just THINK that they want to? This seems to go against our nature as humans, in that, we naturally are driven to compete with one another...in Heaven, we would be deprived of this, instead being blissful, happy, drooling zombies. The "free will" which believers hold so dearly, would be controlled, and, therefore, NOT be free will at all. The internal balance of "good" and "evil" (as our societies have defined these relative terms) would be interrupted, weighing too much on the side of good. This balance disrupted, we'd lose ourselves and might as well have gone into oblivion. It seems to me, that in this scenario, Hell (defined in the Bible simply as a place away from God, not the fire and brimstone that Dante later described) would be preferable because one could live eternally and still possess those qualities that make us human. This seems pretty crazy to me...Hell? A preferable place to go? That doesn't make sense, given everything that Christianity teaches.

And then there's the problem of existence. I think Brad Pitt said it best in Fight Club, "We are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world." The people we are, our persona, dare I say "souls" (the term here is LOOSELY used) are still bound to these physical, earthbound, biochemical machines that we call our bodies. As I said earlier, who we are is defined by a combiniation of nature and nurture. We're products of nature. We're still animals. Humans are NOT something more. We get this idea that we somehow transcend nature simply because we've evolved to learn how to manipulate its resources. I'm getting off on a tangent here, though. As I was saying, without our physical bodies, we cease to exist. Why? Because our minds are made up of chemicals and react to different electrochemical impulses. To prove this, one simply has to look at drugs. Certain drugs control how much of a chemical is in a person's system. Many of these are used to alter a person's personality. Let's say there's a person on Prozac. Something happens that, under normal circumstances, the person would react angrily. Instead, while on this drug, the person is OK with it, or simply doesn't care. The person doesn't WANT to react. People who suffer physical alterations to the brain are different thereafter. Those of you familiar with the story of Finneas Gauge know what I'm getting at. SO...when the body dies, there are no longer these chemical reactions taking place which control a person's persona and, thus, the person ceases to exist. There is nothing thereafter...buh-bye, now.

To me, natural laws seem to be running the universe just fine of their own accord; no divine influence required. That's not to say that there CAN'T be some, higher power, I just simply believe that there is not. I encourage everyone to go out and find their own answers to those nagging, all consuming, mortal questions. Find your own conclusion; whatever you're most comfortable with. It doesn't matter what it is, so long that it makes sense to you. Good night, everybody! (Writings of Geoff for his term paper)

Very interesting summary. It was a summary, wasn't it? Definitely a subject that can be discussed at length. (Especially while drunk) I have to say I appreciate the way you approached this subject. I especially liked where you added in that people should go with what makes the most sense to them. In my own humble opinion, people most often believe not what makes the most sense to them, but what is the most comforting thought. Kind of like "theological morphine" if you will. It isn't because these people are weak, or unintelligent, quite the opposite. It all ties in with the most basic of human instincts: self preservation. People seem to have a built-in sense of what their mind can handle. Therefore, most don't push beyond it, believing whatever makes them feel good, gives them a sense of meaning. But, as all are wired differently, we put different values on our lives, accomplisments, and what-not, thus giving our lives meaning. For some, this meaning is most easily rooted in religion, let's say, for the sake of argument, christianity. Though it may be false, I believe it still has value. The value being that it provides comfort, placating fears. So it's still important, like you said in your own argument, people generally go with whatever has the best outcome. So, some will obviously choose a little bit of ignorance, it is after all, bliss......hehe...yeah, so that's a tiny summary of where I'm coming from! *Comrade in Atheism* SUM ERGO COGITO (Shannon's response)

Always good to get support from a fellow atheist! My entry was indeed a summary. If I expanded upon everything I touched-on in the article, I'd have a freakin' book. Any of the points I brought up could definitely be discussed at great length, and most certainly after a few pints. Drunken philosophy, I've found, allows for an amazing amount of insight into certain topics...ok, almost any topic. I would also agree that many people don't think about what they believe in, and I find that disconcerting. The human desire to preserve one's self is so strong that there is a desire to live after life itself has ended...the concept of oblivion is too terrifying for most people to accept and I understand that. What most people don't understand is that we're not exactly thrilled about it either. The difference is that we atheists willing to deal with it. My saying, "Believe in whatever makes sense to you." was an invitation for people to explore their own spirituality (or lack thereof in our case) and ask questions about it. I think that if everyone did that, they'd have a greater appreciation, not only for their own beliefs, but also for the beliefs of others. Perhaps this is wishful thinking on my part, as most people tend to take the easy way out and NOT think about it...here again we see human nature. (Geoff, just a-writin' back)


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