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Hi, Iam Tony and I'am 15 years old and umm and I have a very strong disbelief in "God" if I used too many big word's for you that means I don't believe in "GOD" well here are the reasons and some storys about it before you go saying OMG... He's the Anti-Christ. Here me out look around check this place out hear my side of the story not just say "Oh.. he's too young to decide", or "He has no idea what he's talking about but before we start i would like to meantion a weebiste called www.punkerslut.com i got some of my information from there..So have a good time looking around and i'll see you later you can also Instant Message me at tonyskater235 Well, any way here's some information about me and my Atheist beliefs..! This story was found somewhere on the internet. Where, exactly, I am not sure. It had no author's name attached to it, so it may be dubbed, "Anonymous." Its original title only had "Christian" capitalized. It looks like precisely what it is: hate literature. If Christian Apologists could produce a work that argued for Christianity without bashing Atheism, such as referring to them as the "mean philosophy professor," if they could do that, then I would be shocked. Now, onto the critique... The Critique The mean philosophy professor and the clever Christian The philosophy professor, an atheist, pauses before his freshman class and asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" "Yes, sir." "So you believe in God?" "Absolutely." "Is God good?" "Sure! God is good." "Is God all powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes." "Are you good or evil?" "The Bible says I'm evil." The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I would." "So you're good...!" "I wouldn't say that." "Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would if we could... but God doesn't." No answer. "He doesn't does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer,even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" No answer. The professor seems almost sympathetic. "No, you can't answer that,can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones."Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?" "Err...Yes." "Is Satan good?" "No." "Where does Satan come from?" The student falters. "From...God..." "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking student audience. "I think we're going to have a good semester, ladies and gentlemen."He turns back to the Christian "Tell me, son. Is there any evil in this world?" "Yes, sir." "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?" "Yes." "Who created evil?" (No answer) "Is there sickness in this world? Ugliness, immorality, hatred? All the terrible things-do they exist in this world?" The student squirms on his feet. "Yes." "Who created them?" (No answer.) The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. Almost inaudibly: "God created them, didn't he?" [--------- "The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face," -- oh, what wondrous things may be conjured in the minds of those infected with religion. It is only typical, though, that the most persecutive of all will make claims that they themselves are persecuted. In this previous sentence, the Atheist professor is displayed as a heartless, brutal man, who enjoys his endeavors to cause suffering. Of course, the historian knows that the church has played that exact role, as have its followers. Yet, still, the Christian author of this seems content to write of Atheists as though we are joyless individuals, made happy from desires to cause needless pain. To quote Thomas Paine, "Those who preach this doctrine of loving their enemies, are in general the greatest persecutors, and they act consistently by so doing; for the doctrine is hypocritical, and it is natural that hypocrisy should act the reverse of what it preaches." [The Age of Reason, by Thomas Paine, Part II, Chapter III.] ---------] (No answer.) The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like a caged tiger. The class is mesmerized. [--------- Again, the professor is displayed as a sort of monster. ---------] "Tell me," he continues, "how is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture,all the death and ugliness and suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?" (No answer.) "Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?" (No answer. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, Professor, I do." The old man shakes his head sarcastically. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Jesus?" "No, sir, I've never seen Him." "Then tell us, have you ever heard your Jesus?" "No, sir, I have not." "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled your Jesus...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" (No answer.) "Answer me, please." "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't." "Yet you still believe in Him?" "...yes..." "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God does not exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?" [--------- False statement. According to the rules of "empricial, testable, demonstrable protocol," (although I agree with the term, it seems to be farcically put) all that we can determine is that there is no proof of god. It says absolutely nothing about god "not existing." It only says that there is no proof of god. To those of us who are reasonably minded, that means there is also no reason to believe in god, and consequently no belief in god. ---------] The student does not answer. "Sit down, please." The Christian sits...defeated...deflated. Another student raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?" The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering." The Christian looks around the room "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies, "there's heat." "Is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there's cold too." "No, sir, there isn't." The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly gets very quiet. The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat, or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 F degrees below zero,which is no heat, but we can't go any further than that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than negative 458F -you see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat, we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, it's just the absence of it." [--------- When you define cold as being the absence of heat, and say that cold does not exist, you are claiming that there is no such thing as the absence of heat, and that the Universe is in an ever-present state of heat. This is, simply put, rather absurd. It is a play on words by the Christian in the story to try and make the professor look unintelligent -- a rather poor play on words. For example... Christian: "Do you believe in pleasure?" Punkerslut: "Sure." Christian: "There is no such thing as pleasure. There is only the absence of pain. That's what pleasure is." Punkerslut: "But you just said that pleasure was not real." Christian: "Pleasure is the absence of pain." Punkerslut: "If pleasure is the absence of pain, then pleasure exists and your original statement was incorrect." ---------] Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom. "Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?" "That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness?What are you getting at?" "So you 'believe' in darkness?" "Yes." "I'm sorry, but science says you're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly, you have nothing, and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give it to me in a jar. But you can't give me a jar of darker darkness, can you Professor?" [--------- This falls victim to the same error as the analogy of heat and cold. It's a mere play on words that produces nothing but awe in the minds of those who believe in the unseen. ---------] Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This would indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must be in error..." The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!" [--------- The professor is displayed here as an angry, indignant Atheist -- how typical of this brand of hate literature. ---------] "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears. "Explain...oh, explain." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue. "You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains,"that, for example, there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing God as a concept, as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it." [--------- Again, more useless points. (To the reader, I apologize that you've read this far.) ---------] The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it."Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, Professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?" "Of course, there is, now look..." "Again, I'm sorry sir, but you are wrong. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such a thing as injustice? No, injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. He speaks very slowly. Each word rings with clarity. "ISN'T EVIL THE ABSENCE OF GOOD?" [--------- False analogy. The Christian is claiming that the two previous scientific proofs have demonstrated something that can be seen in the realm of ethics. If it is true that there is an analogy, how do we know that evil is the absence of good and not that good is the absence of evil? No proof, but that's no surprise when reading religious writings. They fester with growth when there is no evidence! ---------] The professor's face has turned an alarming shade of red. He is so angry, he is temporarily speechless. [--------- It figures that the Atheist professor would be stumped -- at least in Christian literature. ---------] The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, Professor,and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us that it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good (the result of the love of God) over evil (the result of independence or the absence of the love of God). "There is nothing greater than love. God is love and God is good. If He is good, then the innate act of his goodness would be to give man the opportunity to experience the greatest thing that exists-love. But love cannot be forced on someone or else it is not love.There must be a choice involved. God loved us enough to allow us to make the choice. Evil is the result of the choice of independence from God." [--------- The ignorance and folly of this story can be amplified with this single statement: a man can rape a 12 year old child because god has been thinking about love lately. The reason why god has imposed no authority on this planet is because he wants humanity to make a choice -- the choice to love someone. The author of this wretched story fails to draw any line correspondence between immorality and love. God can enforce good behavior (i.e. disallowing rape) without forcing people to love him. Somehow, not harming anyone is identical to "loving god." This is an absurd reduction. Even if this was true, does that mean we should actually be consistent and ameliorate all authority, allowing everyone to do as they wish without any restriction or any regulation? (That is to say, the disollution of the government, as well as any authority what so ever?) ---------] The professor idles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this matter as having anything to do with choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable." "I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies, "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from the same ancestor as a monkey?" [--------- God's moral code entails the following: Amos 3:6 "Does evil befall a city unless the Lord has done it." Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" Isaiah 45:6-7 "And God said 'I am the lord, there is no other.... I make weal and create woe, I am the lord who do all these things." In Joshua 6:21, God utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword. In Chapter 31 of Numbers, Mosses was displeased that his army took prisoners from a village instead of brutally killing them all and gave the following order: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves!" 2 Samuel 24:1, God killed 70,000 people because David took a census of them. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, God sent 2 bears to rip apart 42 children for making fun of a prophet. God killed the first-born of every Egyptian family in Exodus 12:29. God sanctioned slavery (Exodus 21:2-6, 20-21; Leviticus 25:44-46), sanctioned the selling of one's daughter (Exodus 21:7), commanded killing of witches (Exodus 22:18), killing heretics (Exodus 22:20), killing violators of the sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15 and Exodus 35:2), killing those who curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9), killing adulterers (Leviticus 20:10), killing blasphemers (Leviticus 24:16), he demanded and sanctioned human sacrifices (Leviticus 27:28-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1-19), he allows the eating of flesh (Genesis 9:2-3), he endorses marriage (Mark 10:7-9), and God commanded that a raped woman must marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). So, it can be quite clearly seen, that if brutal and heartless murderers follow any code, it may very well be the prevalent Christian doctrine. Furthermore, the absence of people following a code does not prove that the code is truthful or that the supposed creator of the code is real. After all, if people fail to follow the Buddhist doctrine, does that mean that Buddhism is the correct religion? (This may be said of any religion.) And look out, but I think I can see some Evolution bashing coming up. Whoopee! ---------] "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do." "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir, or are you placing your 'faith' in the unobservable?" [--------- Evolution has been observed numerous times. It's called DNA, mutations, vestigial organs, and natural adaptations. A mutation is an alteration of DNA, thus causing a change in the organism. This will allow for an advantageous change in the organism to adapt to their current environment. ---------] The professor makes a sucking noise with his teeth and gives the student a silent, stony stare. "Professor, since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an ongoing endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?" [--------- Again, more lies. "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution," -- the evidences of evolution can quite clearly be seen. Although the entire chain of Evolution and its history cannot entirely be known, we are basing what Evolution was on evidence. It certainly does not make the professor a priest. ---------] "I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now have you quite finished?" the professor hisses. The student replies: "May I follow up on the point you were making earlier to the other student?" The professor wisely keeps silent. "I believe you have a great mind, Professor, but with all respect let me ask the class a question regarding it. Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's mind...felt the professor's mind, touched or smelled the professor's mind?" The class remains silent. "No one appears to have done so. No one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever. While I would not dare to imply it myself, but wouldn't the limitations of what you 'believe in' (the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable, protocol, science) say that you have no mind? Wouldn't the same apply to your emotions and your will? I believe your great mind is hidden within your brain although I cannot observe it within the small box, or within the limited parameters which you want to place God within. If I want to know your mind or better yet the real you (your mind, emotions, will and even your spirit), all I have to do, if you are willing to be known, is be willing to seek to know you and to spend time with you. You can know that God exists, ...if you are willing. ...Are you willing Professor?" [--------- That was the most pathetic paragraph of apologetics I have ever seen. In fact, most scientifically educated people are likely to believe that mind and brain are synonymous. However, the author makes it quite clear here that they believe that there is a difference between the mind and the brain! Furthermore, the "rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable, protocol, science" are not absolute belief in something or absolute disbelief in something. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Atheism is not the declaration that god does not exist or cannot exist, but rather the lack of belief in god. It can quite clearly be seen here that the author, who claims to criticize reason and Atheism, has a very, very inadequate knowledge of both reason and Atheism. ---------] Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence The bell rings. "Class dismissed," replies the professor. "Time is up!" Note : There is a variation on this story where the Christian humiliates the professor by "proving" that the professor has no brain, as nobody has seen, smelt or touched it. Conclusion It is true that this is a rather trashy, uneducated piece of filth: it criticizes reason without understanding reason and it creates a stereotype surrounding Atheists as being cruel and vindictive. There is little more that I can say about this other than the fact that it was poorly written and based on a completel lack of information. =Well, I very much found that story interesting and education just to give you a brief understanding of some things about Atheists. Well, it's sad but most Atheist's are portraied as "Santa Worshiper's" well that is false I also don't believe in the devil because the devil is just like god and was created by god and described in the story above. Well, let's continue. -Tony= ----- JESUS VR SANTA ----- As far as God goes, I do not hold belief in God for the same reasons I do not hold belief in Santa Claus. (1) They BOTH live far, far away. (2) Your parents told you about BOTH. (3) If you do what they say, you either get presents or heaven. (4) If you don't do what they say, you either get no presents or hell. (5) They BOTH have never been sensed. (6) They BOTH are non-demonstatable. (7) They BOTH have magical powers. (8) The same faith a child has in Santa Claus is the same faith a person has in God. ----- JESUS VR SANTA ----- ----- JESUS VR PRODUCT 1 ----- All religions work like a product. Let us just say a salesman came to your door and would try to convince you to buy his product: a vacuum cleaner. They would use various methods of selling, such as showing you pictures of how dirty your carpet is deep inside, telling you how fast dirt can accumulate in the house, or telling you how many times you would need to use your normal vacuum cleaner to get rid of dirt. In basic, the salesman works to convince you that you need his product. It first creates a problem (a dirty carpet), and then it gives you the solution (a vacuum cleaner). Such is with religion. Christianity: "You are a sinner and are going to hell (problem), but accept Jesus and get salvation (solution)." ----- JESUS VR PRODUCT 1 ----- ----- JESUS VR PRODUCT 2 ----- Buddhism: "All life is pain and suffering (problem), but accept Buddhism and go through the Eight Fold Path, and you will attain enlightenment and Nirvana (solution)." Hinduism: "You will be reincarnated as a cockroach for your sinful nature (problem), but accept Hinduism's principles and ethics and you will be reincarnated as a king or nobleman (solution)." Islam: "Allah is the only being who can forgive you and reward you with heaven and you need to be forgiven and rewarded (problem), but if you accept the Qur'an's teachings, you will be forgiven and rewarded (solution)." Judaism: "Yahwe is a vengeful God who will dismember your body and kill you for disobeying his law (problem), but if you accept the Torah and the Talmud, and follow the Ten Commandments, you will be rewarded (solution)." ----- JESUS VR PRODUCT 2 ----- ----- ORIGINS ----- Most will argue, "Then where did we come from?" This argument is flawed right from the beginning. Whereas I must explain the origins of this Universe, the believer is weighed down with the requirement of explaining the origins of a God who is infinitely beyond this Universe. As far as the origins of the Universe, I can explain perfectly fine. Humans evolved from lower life forms through the processes of Evolution and Natural Selection. The origins of the universe are explained through the Big Bang. Where did the matter come from? Matter has always existed, as predicated in the First Law of Thermodynamics: the Conservation of Energy - matter cannot be created or destroyed. In other words, 1 + 1 will never = 4 and 1 + 1 will never = 0. Matter has always existed and always will. ----- ORIGINS ----- ----- WHAT GOD DID ----- Amos 3:6 "Does evil befall a city unless the Lord has done it." Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" Isaiah 45:6-7 "And God said 'I am the lord, there is no other.... I make weal and create woe, I am the lord who do all these things." In Joshua 6:21, God utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword. In Chapter 31 of Numbers, Mosses was displeased that his army took prisoners from a village instead of brutally killing them all and gave the following order: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves!" 2 Samuel 24:1, God killed 70,000 people because David took a census of them. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, God sent 2 bears to rip apart 42 children for making fun of a prophet. God killed the first-born of every Egyptian family in Exodus 12:29. ----- WHAT GOD DID ----- ----- WHAT GOD COMMANDED ----- God sanctioned slavery (Exodus 21:2-6; Leviticus 25:44-46), sanctioned the selling of one's daughter (Exodus 21:7), commanded killing of witches (Exodus 22:18), killing heretics (Exodus 22:20), killing violators of the sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15 and Exodus 35:2), killing those who curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9), killing adulterers (Leviticus 20:10), killing blasphemers in (Leviticus 24:16), he demanded and sanctioned human sacrifices (Leviticus 27:28-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1-19), he allows the eating of flesh (Genesis 9:2-3), he endorses marriage (Mark 10:7-9), and God commanded that a raped woman must marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). ----- WHAT GOD COMMANDED ----- --------- SLAVERY --------- EXODUS 21 20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. --------- SLAVERY --------- ---- SLAVE MASTER RELATIONSHIP 1 ----- Jesus taught for you to be humble and self-sacrificing. "If someone steals your coat, give him your cloak. If someone punches you on one cheek, turn the other so he may punch that one, as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go two miles." These are the words from the Biblical Jesus. He asks of you to be self sacrificing and to take abuse. Further, Jesus said he came for the sinners. Now, just what is sin? It is mentioned nearly 1,000 times in the Bible and it is upheld as being one of the most horrible things ever. Christians compare the sin of a rapist to the sin of a liar and say that they are equal - yet the punishments in the legal system for them is far different. So, to be a Christian, you must first admit that you are a sinner and that your sin is equal to that of a rapist or murderer. Further, Pride is a sin, so you may not be proud of who you are or what you have accomplished. Sloth, Lust, and Gluttony are also sins - you may not indulge or be happy, in basic. You must be humble and self sacrificing. Greed and Envy are still sins that ask that you do not strive to be the best you can be; you are not allowed to want things. And if you refuse Jesus Christ, you are sent to hell. So, why is Christianity this way? I'll tell you why.... ---- SLAVE MASTER RELATIONSHIP 1 ----- ----- SLAVE MASTER RELATIONSHIP 2 ----- Because it is the follower who is told they are worthless, scum, sinning, and not worth being proud of, it is this follower with a low self-esteem, that will enjoy the "accept me or perish" SLAVE-MASTER relationship of man to God. Yes, God is the doctor to your wound, but only after inflicting it. He is the cure to your disease, but only after infecting you. He is your crutch, but only after breaking your leg. ----- SLAVE MASTER RELATIONSHIP 2 ----- ----- Biblical Contradiction ----- Salvation, in Christianity, is considered to be one of the most important parts of the religion, but how do we attain it? James 2:24 says "You attain salvation through works and faith", but we get a very different story in Ephesians 2:9, "You attain salvation through faith only, so no man can boast." Either God did not have anyone edit his final piece of the Bible or the people who uphold it are fools. ----- Biblical Contradiction ----- ----- Legends ----- The Bible, especially the Gospels, is ALL composed of legends. View these verses... Mark 1:32-34 - "That evening, at sundown, they brought to him all who were sick or possessed with demons... And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons." Now, compare that same instance with the later Gospels... Matthew 8:16 - "That evening they brought ot him many who were possessed with demons; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick." And Luke... Luke 4:40 - "Now when the sun was setting, all those who had any that were sick with various diseases brought them to him; and he laid his hands on every one of them and healed them." In Mark, some were brought to Jesus and some were healed. In Matthew, some were brought and all were healed. And in Luke, all were brought and all were healed. Over time, legends develop and I find this to be one of the legends of the Bible. ----- Legends ----- ----- FLAT EARTH ----- Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." ----- FLAT EARTH ----- =Hey, Tony here agian well thats alot of info but it's helping in understanding my beliefs!=
