Tenacious C says:
drugs will kill you a lot sooner than smoking....you need to give it all up....
Robyn says:
i used to be a drugs councillor, i know my stuff
Tenacious C says:
well you should know not to fucking do them then!
Robyn says:
a few recreational drugs are going to do me less harm in the long run than 30fags a day
Tenacious C says:
heh....tell that to Lea Betts and Stuart Lubbock
Robyn says:
tell that to the media who hyped up two drug related deaths to extremems
Robyn says:
think of the number of people who die from lung cancer
Robyn says:
thing of the number of people who die from liver poisoning
Robyn says:
and think of the handful of people who die from drugs
Robyn says:
take estacy for example
Tenacious C says:
and how many of them die through lifetimes of abuse and how many of the drug folk die from random usage....
Robyn says:
which for the record i dont take
Tenacious C says:
how many 20 year old lung cancer victems are there?
Robyn says:
there has only been ONE death in the last ten years DIRECTLY related to E
Robyn says:
the other handful have been due to it being taken badly - people dehydrating and flooding themselves
Robyn says:
thousands
Tenacious C says:
thats still due to the e...
Robyn says:
tons of children get lung cancer
Robyn says:
its not something you have to do for years to get cancer from smokes
Robyn says:
it only takes one
Tenacious C says:
yes from bad parents who smoke around there kids and who let there kids smoke young....parents faults...not the kids....if you die from drugs that is entirly your fault.....
Tenacious C says:
it's bad, wrong wrong bad and should be outlawed.....oh wait it is...
Robyn says:
very victorian
Tenacious C says:
what is?
Robyn says:
MORE people die from alcohol abuse
Robyn says:
MORE people die from cigerettes
Robyn says:
its just what society does and doesnt accept
Tenacious C says:
yes abuse...don't abuse the alcohol....
Robyn says:
dont abuse the drugs dont die
Robyn says:
dont abuse the alcohol dont die
Robyn says:
touch the cigs and you run the chance
Tenacious C says:
taking illegal substances of any sort IS abuse no matter how little the amount...
Robyn says:
just because its illegal
Robyn says:
so if it WASNT illegal it wouldnt be abuse?
Tenacious C says:
yes because it's illehal
Robyn says:
so is homosexual sex before 18, so if gay men have sex at 17 is that abuse?
Tenacious C says:
if canabis was legal then I'd say use it in the same way you do alcohol...not the way you do cigarettes...
Robyn says:
so is sex in general before 16, is that abuse?
Tenacious C says:
yes robyn that would be statatory rape and sexual abuse...
Robyn says:
the law is just a flashframe of society at the time, constantly under review
Robyn says:
hense why these things change all the time
Robyn says:
and hense why cannibis is going to be virtually legalised within the year
Tenacious C says:
well canabis I could live with.....
Robyn says:
you cant make your morals around where the law stands at the time
Tenacious C says:
heroin, coke, E, anything else....if that was legalised I'd leave the country
Robyn says:
you dont know your facts
Robyn says:
heroin was legal in this country for hundreds of years
Tenacious C says:
no I don't know my facts, I know what I see around me....
Robyn says:
in its pure form its one of the safest drugs around
Tenacious C says:
and I don't care if it was legal before, it aint now....
Robyn says:
it also has great medicinal use
Robyn says:
for example
Robyn says:
the painkillers im on so i can get throuhg the day and am able to walk
Tenacious C says:
robyn your not talking medical use...
Robyn says:
are a deverative of heron
Robyn says:
now i ACCEPT drugs destroy people
Robyn says:
thats not in debate
Tenacious C says:
you are talking recreational which is what I am talking about....medical use is a completly different issue
Robyn says:
but you cant have a rule for one and not a rule for all
Robyn says:
you cant decide what is a good drug and what is a bad drug
Robyn says:
because you dont know
Robyn says:
you dont have the facts
Robyn says:
like less people dying from E than alcohol
Robyn says:
like the tens of thousands of people who take it
Robyn says:
now im not biased, i dont take it
Robyn says:
i just know my facts
Tenacious C says:
well I don't know my facts but I see the fucking scum that run around this city in their kappa tracksuits and the 16 year old girls with the kids and the council houses that my taxes pay for, I know I'm in bishopbriggs and you'll say I;'m being a snob but I cringe every time I see a young girl with a kid, I cringe everytime I walk about town and it's getting worse...
Robyn says:
but you can blame poverty
Tenacious C says:
the legalisation of drugs for recreation will only make it worse....
Robyn says:
you can blame lack of education
Robyn says:
you can blame attitute
Tenacious C says:
and I don't belive in the cycle of poverty...
Robyn says:
you cant singularly blame a problem on drugs
Robyn says:
you dont beleive in the cycle of poverty!! wtf!!!
Tenacious C says:
it's education and it's attitude and it's the parents...
Robyn says:
please dont take offense, but you have the attitute of a typical white, middle-class trash
Tenacious C says:
I take offence to the trash comment....
Robyn says:
people like you cause problems
Robyn says:
because your attitude is wrong
Tenacious C says:
ok Education in this country is free we are blessed with that.  There is NO REASON why any kid can't finish high school and go to uni.
Robyn says:
you live in a dream world, you think if all the bad things went away society would be pergect
Robyn says:
what if they dont see the point?
Robyn says:
what if they dont have the money?
Robyn says:
what if they are too busy fucking surviving to give too fucks?
Tenacious C says:
didn't I just point out that it's free?
Robyn says:
not everyone is blessed with parents who SHOW their children education is important
Robyn says:
omg i cant believe you think like this
Robyn says:
what is the point? they cant afford uni, they dont think they are ever gonig to make it, they have nothing driving them, nothing encouraging them
Tenacious C says:
and if they don't wanna go to uni (I didnt) then they can go to college and spend a year studying catering (always thousands of jobs in that) or mechanics or carpentry....all of which the college I went to provide for free, also pay for housing and burserys if you need it....
Robyn says:
but WHY WOULD THEY THINK LIKE THAT
Robyn says:
they have no example that it is the right thing to do
Robyn says:
they just dont see that part of life
Robyn says:
they just see the bad things
Robyn says:
they dont have mum or dad pushing them to do well, encouraging them
Robyn says:
who says they can afford to go to college
Robyn says:
yeah there is money avaliable BUT WHO IS THERE TO TELL THEM ABOUT IT
Robyn says:
who is there to help them get that kind of thing
Tenacious C says:
If they don't think like that then it's entiryly the fault of the parents and they should not have been given the privalage to pro-create.  It's a horrible, stupid thing to say but if they can't properly raise there kids they shouldn't be allowed them....
Robyn says:
that is a nazi-attitude
Robyn says:
who are you to control other people
Tenacious C says:
I know it is but sadly thats the only way this society will ever evolve...
Robyn says:
who is to say that they arent perfectly happy with their existance
Robyn says:
society will always evolve
Robyn says:
it is a moving learning creature
Robyn says:
it experiances, it accepts, it moves on
Robyn says:
it doesnt try to make the problems go away by burying them
Tenacious C says:
thats a problem then....people constantly look for a purpose in life...since the dawn of time the question is why are we here....the only reason I can see is to better ourselves before we have to leave this exsistance for the next (and no I'm not getting religious)
Robyn says:
im not here for that
Robyn says:
im here to do the best i can do by myself and others
Tenacious C says:
society is NOT evolving...it's devolving....just look around you....
Robyn says:
im looking
Robyn says:
an im seeing a place that is inventing, a place that is becoming more socially complex, that is creating so many different people
Robyn says:
you cant live this life waiting for the next, because your going to fucking waste it when you realise there is nt one
Tenacious C says:
I'm not waiting for the next, I want to better my current position.  My dad was from a family of six or seven kids from Brigton.  My grandad worked all day as a butcher to bring home a pitence of a wage to educate and feed his family.  My dad and his 2 brothers (one now deceased) were the only ones who got out of that existance coz they were the only ones who tried....
Tenacious C says:
George and Charlie went to school and finished it and went on to further education.  My dad left school and became an apprentice with the gas board...he went to new guinae as a volunteer in the 70's
Tenacious C says:
and then got married, got a house in Bishopbriggs (where my mum was from) and worked with the gas board for years and now has his own buisness and pulls in about £800 a week....
Tenacious C says:
now my dad better his situation for himself and me and my brother and I want to do the same for my family when I have one....to me that is life...I don't want to have to work as hard as my grandad had to to support a family
Robyn says:
your just making my point for me
Robyn says:
its about aiming where you want to be
Robyn says:
and working to get there
Robyn says:
but not everyone wants to be educated with family
Robyn says:
some kids aim to have shoes on their feet and a roof over their head
Robyn says:
and if they achieve that what is that say that they have acheived any less than the lawyor
Robyn says:
you also got to remember where people are coming from. On scales the law student from the rich family with pushy parents can get higher than the kid from the slum
Tenacious C says:
thats the problem isn't it....thats why my brother went to uni for 5 years to get a good job and now earns about £20,000 a year working 5 days a week only to have 40% of his wages deducted to give money to these people who don't want to work and why he had to sell his car coz he can't afford it on his wages despite being an engineering consultant with a top engineering firm..
Robyn says:
you miss the point! they dont see why they SHOULD work
Robyn says:
its not their fault
Tenacious C says:
I'm not saying do it imediatly....but from scummy parents in a scummy home, being a mechanic's apprentice or a plumber is a big step up...
Robyn says:
they just dont know better
Robyn says:
a big step, exactly
Robyn says:
its HARD
Robyn says:
andn ot all of them will make it
Robyn says:
and some of them cant aim that high
Robyn says:
you have to be less judgemental until you have walked in someones shoes
Tenacious C says:
well then I say cut them off....stop taking my brothers and my dads and my mums wages....take Nation Insurance to pay for public services by all means but don't pay out benefits willy nilly like they do now.
Robyn says:
i come from a really poor family
Robyn says:
and im disabiled
Robyn says:
if the goverment wasnt giving out benefit 'willy-nilly' i wouldnt be here now
Robyn says:
i survive off governemtn money
Robyn says:
so i dont mind giving a couple of quid off my wages to help people who are worse off than me
Robyn says:
because without help like that i wouldnt be here today
Tenacious C says:
disability is not what I'm talking about....
Robyn says:
no i get money for being POOR
Robyn says:
for having NOTHING
Robyn says:
for having parents that work every hour god sends to a pitance
Tenacious C says:
I'm 100% for education benefits...if your trying to study the government should give you all the money you want but if your content to sit around your house drikning and not having a job and not looking then thats what I'm against...
Robyn says:
because they were born into families that didnt push them to achieve, didnt MAKE then realise the importance of education
Robyn says:
so my parents are skint
Robyn says:
and we rely on governemnt money
Tenacious C says:
this is what I've been saying....
Robyn says:
if they sit around the house drinking and not workig ITS BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW BETTER
Robyn says:
its like punishing a child for putting its hand in a fire when it has never been told the fire is hot
Robyn says:
what you dont know you cant be held responsible for
Robyn says:
now yes, i think they shuld be educated
Robyn says:
and yes they shuld be helped into work
Tenacious C says:
your parents may have not been pushed and work god awful hours for worse wages but they've obviously instilled in you the importance to better your situation weather you know it or not they have...
Robyn says:
but they certainly should not be cut off from the rest of society and left to die
Robyn says:
im not here to social climb, im here because i want to learn
Tenacious C says:
no they shouldn't, they should be praised for helping you...
Robyn says:
and if i end up in a shit job then thats my own decision
Tenacious C says:
social climb or just to learn your still trying to better your situation...
Robyn says:
better my situation from what?
Robyn says:
from what i know? no certainly not
Robyn says:
i grew up in a happy loving home, if thats all i can pass on to my kids thenthats enough
Robyn says:
money isnt important, its people
Robyn says:
and if i do half the job my folks did with us ill be proud
Tenacious C says:
true a happy loving home is The most important thing.....but happy and loving with money and a nice house and good school and good neighbourhood must seem to you to be a much better exsistance...