Since I have natural urges to listen to it, I would obviously be more than willing to accept it if I thought it were a valid tool of God.
I encourage you to pray about it then. But if God doesn't want you to listen to it, then don't.
I'm saved, saved. Called out of the professional music darkness into His marvelous light! Called out of a quart of scotch whisky each night, half a case of beer a day, handfuls of all manner of speed, cocaine, heroine, hallucinatory drugs, a violent criminal nature, to serve Jesus with all my heart, mind, soul and strength.
Praise the Lord for your deliverance!
I feel very sorry for you and the circle of deception you wander in. You cannot possibly see the light when you attack with such venemous scorn anyone who tries to tell you the truth.
I don't really care for your so called pity or that you think I've been decepted. This may be a selfish statement, but at this point in my life, I want to approach the throne of God and hear, "Well done my good and faithful servant." That's why I do what he tells me to do. And I always go the extra mile when the opportunity. arises. I do it, not because I feel I"m in competition with other Christians, I do it, because I LOVE God with my WHOLE heart!!!
(2 Th 2:9-12) "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, (10) and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11) And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (12) that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
That's the day we are living in. You and I were warned! I'm listening...are you?
Yes, I've been listening very closely as a matter of fact. Oh, by the way, sorry about any spelling errors. I may be a perfectionist but I'm not perfect.
With the Love of Christ,
Tempest
Below is Mr. Fisher's response to that.
Dear Tempest DOW,
I believe you have shown a better attitude than many of the others I have contacted. In fact, your attitude was commendable. You make your point and I understand when they sound harsh. Sometimes that's the only way to make a point. Maybe we can have the discourse that the rest refuse to consent to in our following e-mails. I don't expect you to disagree with me as long as either of us does not become disagreeable. If you are right and I am wrong, you will never convince me unless we can have an ethical, honest, debate.
You should visit my site and read the reason's why I believe the way I do about "Christian" Rock and other forms of "Christian" music that have been borrowed from the world. Although I spend more time on "Christian" Rock music, I believe "Christian" music of all styles has been perverted. If you think I'm too harsh, just think about a soul in hell. I f one soul goes to hell believeing Amy Grants licentious words, and I stand by doing nothing, what will God require of me?
(Ezek 33:6-8 NKJV) "But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken awayin his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand. {7} So you son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. {8} When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand."
I am not an evil hypocrite attacking you or anyone else. I attack what I believe is an evil invasion. I speak what I believe God is telling me against the openly licentious people in "Christian" music. Listen to Isaiah, and he was mild compared to some of the other prophets.
(Isa 5:22-24 NKJV) "Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink, {23} Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away justice from the righteous man! {24} Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, And the flame consumes the chaff, So their root will be as rottenness, And their blossom will ascend like dust; Because they have refected the law of the LORD of hosts, And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."
I've never heard your band and cannot make a qualified judgement concerning your music. I have listened to Vengeance, Mortification, One Bad Pig, 77's and others and the Holy Spirit rises up in me against this music. I also have observed the lifestyles of people such as Amy Grant and Michael Smith, to name a couple, and do not believe them to be representative of biblical Christianity. What is your opinion regarding these people? Also, what is your opinion regarding the "Christian" music business as a whole? Have you read Steve Camp's 107 theses?
Respectfully,
C. H. Fisher
(1 Cor 5:9-13 NKJV) "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. {10} Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of this world. {11} But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; not even to eat with such a person. {12} For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? {13} But those who are outside God judges. Therefore 'put away from yourselves the evil person'."
Below is a file attachment that Mr. Fisher sent to me via-email.
Hello, Tempest DOW, I want to answer some fo your responses and questions you asked me. I haven't had time to visit your site but will do so sometime today. First, I believe God is convicting Mr. Thompson about his music because he's been trying to get out of it and because of the angry responses he gives toward my challenges. As one man said, "If you can't take rebuke, you're probably guilty of it." That's not always the case. Sometimes people rebuke because they just don't like you or they have other ulterior motives. I tried to get into the "Christian" music business and have the talent (had, I'm getting old) to do it, but I couldn't get a witness of the Holy Spirit because of the apostate nature of the business. I reacted defensively when the Holy Spirit tried to reason with me. Finally, I gave in and then I saw clearly why I was not to get invoved. Although I still sing, write, and play music, but it is for the ears of God and for the purposes of His will. They are not for sale and I refuse to give them to the commercial machine of Nashville although I have done so in the past to my shame. Your gun example is not relevant in this context for the following reasons. It is presented on the premise that CR is of God. That must be proved before you can use that premise. You're or my opinions do not count. To date, no one has proved it is of God but chose to attack the challengers. Also, the gun example presumes that CR and Secular Rock is exactly the same as all other music, which is obviously incorrect. There are guns designed for sport, for target shooting, and for the sole purpose of taking a human life. Yes, they are all guns but design is different. Can a gun designed for sport be used to kill a human. This is true just as people will use the gospel to kill someone spiritually, but it wasn't designed for that purpose. In any case we cannot use the gun example because it isn't germane to the issue. A more perfect example would be "words". Some use words to encourage, love, build up, warn instruct, and other positive uses. There are words that are specificallly designed for evil and cannot be used for good. Can you imagine a minister preaching a message laced with filthy language? Although evil words are words, they cannot be attributed to God and were not invented or created by Him. Neither can evil music. Evil words are a satanic arrangement of letters to form a perversion of language. Then there is the example of good words designed in combination to for evil, such as a lie or fase doctrine. They cannot be attributed to God either. Music arraigned in a style by Satan for the destruciton of God's image in mankind is evil. It cannot be used for good. If one takes away the evil design, the music reverts back to its original neutral position. Then it can be arraigned to promote the image of God rather than to discourage it. Now as to the example you gave of Joshua 6:16 I can only say that you should get some help from a friend who is better instructed in the scriptures before you use such an examples to defend a point as vital as you listed. I hope that advice doesn't offend you. The activity in Joshua 6 was preparation for battle. The shouting was not music, neither the trumpet blowing, but battle sounds. You incorrectly assume that the trumpet was used melodiously in battle. This was not a Bourbon Street march with horns playing "When The Saints Go Marching In." It was loud, monotonous, blasts. The noise came after 6 days of total silence and toward the end of the seventh circle on the Sabbath day. Archeologists discovered the walls that fell were built on top of walls, which had falled previously. The city was built on mound to keep the pioneers (undrground diggers) out. This also prevented the walls from falling in from an outside force. Houses were built on top of the walls making then top heavy. Thousands of people were on top watching the Israelites circle. These people were startled with fear as the sudden loud battle noises that caused them to simultaneoulsy push outward on the top of the walls. I believe the combined force of the simultaneous outward pressure from the people reaction to the battle sounds caused the walls to fall. Of course I do not disagree with Psalms 150 and do not attack anyone who obeys it. I have danced many times before the Lord, and run, and shouted. I do believe that there is an abuse of this in the church. Again it is a stretch to take those scriptures and defend CR. You are defending the practice of praise of if I disagree with praise. This is disingeuous and a completely different subject altogether. I do not know your music. Maybe it is praise music. You wrote that it was "Christian" metal music and that is certainly not what the scriptures are implying. Apparently you have been challenged before by some folks who have not been free their own selves from problems in doctrine and practice. I don't believe that you should make assumptions with me since they will not stick. Although I do not believe I'm perfect, I do follow the word as literal as I can and as I said chucked religion out the door. Or course the example about octane is not germane to the issue either. It would presume that CR was a spiritually more powerful music. Based on what, being loud? I have heard a quiet song performed without any musical instrumentation that melted the coldest hearts. The power is in not in the volume, but the anointing. Of course, I didn not say that I disliked the music but the opposite, my flesh wants to listen to it. I did say the Holy Spirit in me rises up aganinst the music. You said "If God doesn't want me to listen to it, then don't." If God doesn't want me to listen to it the Holy Spirit is not pleased when I do listen. How could He be displeased in me with the music and the same time is pleased with you with the same music? Obviously, one of us is wrong. The Holy Spirit is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is consistent in His likes and dislikes. ( Cor 1:10 NKJV) "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." To come to a clear understanding of what you believe I want to ask you to write down in a clear, cognitive, format why you believe that CR is right complete with scriptural backing. Feel free to enlist the help of your friends and any resources. you can have all the time necessary to form your case. Be polite, and I believe you will. Let's both avoid name-calling and insult hurling keeping a Christ-like spirit through out. I will answer you point by point in the same manner. When we are we have done our best, if you will give me permission I will publish the total debate on my site and you can post the same on your site. This is what most CR proponents fail to respond to, an honest, ethical, debate on the issues. It's as if they realize they can't win it. I hope we can engage in such an effort. What this does is it takes the issue out of the arena of angry, resentful or defensive wrestling and focuses it on the points. Then people can make an honest, rational, decision concerning this issue. When it's over, we can agree to depart in peace even though we may still disagree. If I am proved wrong, I will repent and change. I would expect you to do the same. I don't fear the truth no matter what it costs me. Do you? In Christ, C.H.Fisher
Dear Mr. Fisher,
Thank you for resonding and sending me your URL address. I just visited the site not too long ago. Even though I didn't agree with 100% of it, I found it to be interesting and informative.
I do however agree with your views on some of todays "Christian" musicians. It truly angers me that you see Christian bands today, and have trouble distinguishing them from secular bands.
For example:
A couple of years ago, a friend of mine recieved backstage passes at a concert he was attending. The band had recieved many awards from the Christian music industry. But, when my friend made his way to the backstage area, he found the members of that band drinking, swearing, and putting on a show of immorality. When I heard that, it really upset me, because that band had spoken out against abortion and they had reminded us of the coming of the Lord.
I belive "Christian music of all styles has been perverted.
I strongly agree with that statement. I don't see that as being a result of the music itself, but the individuals who persued self glorification, rather than God's glory. It saddens me, that many Christian musicians today, are doing what they do, because now there happens to be a market for Christian music. (1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.") I feel that when something of God becomes "trendy" or "marketable", we must become wary. Christianity is not some kind of fashion statement. A lot of Christian musicians want to be heard on secular radio stations, not because they want to reach the lost, but because that's more money in their pocket. But believe it or not, there are still musicians out there that walk in faith. Here's a quote from Dale Thompson at a concert in Brazil: "Bride does not want to be a rock star band, we are just servants of Jesus Chris."
That is what a lot of todays artists don't have. They have stars in their eyes and lack servitude. I support any and all Christian artists (no matter waht style of music they use even though I don't like all styles) that seek first the Kingdom of God, and that are willing to decrease so that God may increase.
If you think I'm too harsh, just think about a soul in hell. If one soul goes to hell believing Amy Grants licentious words, and I stand by doing nothing, what will God require of me?
That's a very good point. As I said in my last email, I believe that you should live by your convictions that the Holy Spirit lays on your heart. In my honest opinion, I think Amy Grant needs to spend some time on her knees praying for forgiveness for confusing both the Christians and the world. As for what God will require of you, I don't know. I know that the following quote is not found in the scriptures, but it seems relevant to you statement. It goes, "How can I consider myself to be a good man, if I let evil survive." I don't remember where I heard that, but it has stuck with me since.
I've never heard your band and cannot make a qualified judgement concerning your music. I have listened to Vengeance, Mortification, One Bad Pig, 77's and others and the Holy Spirit rises up against this music. I also have observed the lifestyles of people such and Amy Grant and Michael Smith, to name a couple, and do not believe them to be representative of biblical Christianity. What is your opinion regarding these people?
I've never heard One Bad Pig or the 77's, but I am familiar with Vegeance Rising (or Vengeance) and Mortification. The story of Vengeance Rising is a sad one. I don't know if you're familiar with the story but it mostly revolves around Roger Martinez, their lead vocalist. He spent his Vengeance days, preaching and teaching the Word of God. He made a stand against immorality in a bold way. Then, one day he disappeard. Occassionally, one of his friends still involved would recieve a call from him asking for money. Now, he's making a return but he is no longer the same person he used to be. He claims to be an atheist. He is also making a series of tapes to go against the preaching tapes he made while he was with Vengeance. As for the rest of the band, they stuck together and formed a new band called Die Happy. They changed their musical style and found a new lead singer. I really don't listen to Vengeance for the simple fact that I doubt Roger's sincertity even in those days. But I do occassionally listen to Die Happy.
As for Mortification, I strongly support their ministry. I spent some time with the band about two years ago and I was highly impressed by their fire for God and their sincerity. I don't know if you are aware of the situation that Steve Rowe (bassist, and lead vocalist) just came out of, but Steve Rowe was literally dying. He was diagnosed with leukemia. The doctors told him that he had 2 months to live. Next he heard that he had 2 weeks to live. Then he was told that he had a few days. Then it came down to a few hours. Through the whole ordeal, he kept believing and praying that God would deliver him if it were His will. Then, when everyone believed that it was too late, he was miracurously healed. He went through treatments and medications but still gave God all of the glory.
Also, what is your opinion regarding the "Christian" music business as whole?
In my personal opinion, the "Christian" music business is just what it claims to be....... a "business". I tseems as though the only thing Christian about it, are some of the artists who are apart of that community. All it is, is an industry, not a ministry.
Have you read Steve Camps 107 theses?
No I haven't. I've never heard of it as a matter of fact.
Oh, by the way. There was an internet service error with the attachments you sent me, so when the network corrects the problem, I will be sure to take a look at them.
And on an ending note, here is why I believe the "rock" was created by God. And I have said before, I believe it is a tool, that can be used for good or evil. Colossians 1:16 (KJV) "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" And to be honest with you, that's pretty much the basis for my whole arguement.
With the Love of Christ,
Tempest
Dear Tempest DOW,
I recieved your e-mail and was very saddened to hear about the lead singer of Vengeance Rising. That information really touched my heart.
Someone needs to reach this man. I will continue to pray for him with compassion. Do you believe the music was what got to him? If the music was of God, how could he be so immersed in it and still fall so fast and so far?
In regards to the scripture you qouted in Colossians 1:16, I must say you still haven't quite understood my point. God did create all things and I have never disagreed with that. He created music, of that I am sure, yet God is not the author of mutations, perversions and such. God is not responsible when someone takes his gift and fashions it into an instrument of destruction.
He is not responsible for the cocaine epidemic that came from His Coca plant or the opium, heroin, morphine addiction that is derived from His poppy plants. these drugs may have medicinal value but are destructive in the street form. I was a "hippie" in my hometown. We used to smoke pot and laugh at the "straights" who, even though they drank alcohol, declared it was of the devil. My reply was that God made the hemp plant, so the pot was okay to smoke. Was I right? I could use Col. 1:16 to prove my point back then but I wasn't a bible thumper.
Rock Music is a satanic perversion. I have a wealth of documented material that follows the history of the creation of Rock music from the beginning up through the 80's. I used to do a Rock Music expose' when I was an evangelist. I also have a two volume video set by Joe Shimmel that documents the influence of totally satanic people in the lives of the most popular Rock stars.
To declare that He is responsible for the mutation of music into the form called Rock music is opening the door for a lot of bizarre doctrine. For example, God created sex and gave it to us to enjoy (I believe I can speak this to you without reservation), yet God is most certainly not responsible for prostitution, fornication, homosexuality and lesbianism, and child molestation. Homosexuals declare the God made them the way they are and that their actions are justified using the same scripture you use and more, Colossians 1:16. Of course they are wrong for they have perverted what God created as good.
One can never take a perversion and use it for God's glory because of this one reason. 1. When Satan perverts something, he voids the power of God in it by redesigning it to ensnare and destroy the souls of mankind.
If we are to use Rock music, we have to undo what Satan has done. It then becomes godly again. I don't believe the satanic perversion is undone by simply changing the words. The style is still unoriginal, not derived from godly sources. The entire perversion has to be undone. Below is an article I just posted on my site that will shed more light on what I am trying to say. If you do not have the time to go there I will send you a file attachment below.
I also want to thank you for helping me to see that I need to do more to express myself so that others do not believe that I hate them. I'm a happy guy, smile a lot an dlove being around all kinds of people. I wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally because I've been beat upon by religious folks quite a bit. I still get a lot of flack from the religious crowd.
Lets keep communicating. I believe that it is fruitful an dwe're coming closer to an understanding.
In Christ, C.H. Fisher
True Christian Music ("Where is the Mantle?") By C.H. Fisher (2 Ki 2:13-15 NKJV "He also took up the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood by the bank of the Jordan. {14} Then he took the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and struck the water, and said, "Where is the LORD God of Elijah?" And when he also had struck the water, it was divided this way and that; and Elisha crossed over. {15} Now when the sons of the prophets who were from Jericho saw him, they said, "The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha." And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him."
It is not my intention to post an opinion here as if it were a Divine Revelation from the Almighty God. It is an opinion as is most of what I write. All we have left when we are not directly quoting scriptures is opinions. Some opinions are extremely accurate being based completely on God's Word with little, if any, human wisdom added. I make the facts although I make every effort to gather them before I speak or write. Then I have to go back and correct my words, either making them stronger or retracting something I have spoken or written. I pray I will always be humble enough to do so, yet I pray more that I will not make mistakes in the first place. Words are most powerful and sometimes you get branded with a stigma by something you said in haste or ignorance.
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