Site hosted by Angelfire.com: Build your free website today!
 
 
 
Responses Part 6
 
 
 
 

Subj: Amway
Date: 97-09-01 18:17:30 EDT
From:To: exambot@aol.com
Hi Rotten,
Thanks for the great job telling the truth about Amway. I got a call
the other night from a guy who wanted me to take a servey. He said he
worked for some internet service company and he was a fellow parent.
Both our kids attend the same school. He wanted to take a servey but I
needed me to here his tapes first. He would not tell me what the servey
was about. It than hit me, and I said "is this amway". He had all the
Dexter Yager lines dowm pat.
My brother got me into this deal a couple of years ago at a rough
time for me and I was looking for a change in my life. I put my heart
and sole into this for about six months. I Traveled all over to show the
plan. After sixty contacts I was lucky an had not sucked anyone into
this progam. I think I was to honests. I still have friend who our not
as close as they were before amway.
Thanks again for your hard work.

Subj: WWDB page
Date: 97-09-01 19:57:59 EDT
From: To: Exambot
You are right on about Amway. Should anyone decide to challenge your
claims, I will back you
up.

Subj: response
Date: 97-09-03 02:00:04 EDT
From: Reply-to: To: exambot@aol.com
how much was your gross income last year? What are the odds of you ever
making over $100,000.oo a year in your life time. If they are over 1%
please share some of your insight.

Subj: COMMENT ON ARTICLE
Date: 97-09-09 00:11:52 EDT
From: To: Exambot
HAVE YOU HEARD OF A COMPANY CALLED WMA?
IF SO HOW DO YOU COMPARE IT WITH AMWAY?

Subj: Re: curious
Date: 97-09-09 01:04:43 EDT
From: To: Exambot
Yes I did get a good deal on my computer and about the money I've made
we're not supposed to
state it to the public because the FTC says so, but my wife and I do
breathe alot easier every
month when bill time comes. ( I thought the FTC just said they couldn't
lie about it!)

Subj: Amway wwdb
Date: 97-09-09 07:42:46 EDT
From: To: exambot@aol.com
How long did it take you to form your opinion and how long ago did this
occur ?

Subj: Thanks for the warning!
Date: 97-09-12 00:38:50 EDT
From: To: Exambot
I just want to thank you and your ex-Amway colleagues for educating
people on the complexities
and deceitfulness of the Amway empire. I have been looking for a second
job/entreprenurial
opportunity for awhile and just last week someone called me saying he
was an alumnus of the
same college went to and he and a few C.P.A.'s were starting a new
business and were looking
for some people. I asked if there were any presentations being made and
was invited to a
meeting at a local reputable hotel. I had no idea Amway was the product
until almost 2 hours
into the meeting.
The couple that invited me seemed nice but frazzled and nervous. They
proudly introduced me
to the speaker (whom they seemed very impressed by, but I thought came
off as too slow and
cheesy), when I mentioned that I would be looking into the business
without my husband as he
works two manual labor jobs and is tired; the speaker became visibly
upset and told the Amway
couple not to give me the tapes they had just handed to me 5 minutes
earlier until my husband
could be present. Being a fully capable and liberated woman I was
mortified at such patronizing
behavior and was ready to walk out the door. The wife of the couple took
me aside and said to
ignore him and encouraged me to listen to the tapes. They would come to
talk about the
opportunities in 2 days.
I had no prior knowledge of Amway, but was not extremely enthusiastic
about having to talk other
people into something so I could profit financially, especially family
and friends. Instead of
listening to the tapes I came on the internet to do some research and
discovered the Skeptic's
Dictionary site. Thank goodness. After reading the horror stories there
I saw a reference to your
site and stopped by to see what you had to say.
I would like to vouch for the impression given of the people involved in
the meeting I attended on
both your websites. They were all holding huge dayplanners like they
were the holy bible (does
Amway sell those)? The women stood up after their husbands spoke and
read stupid little
advertisements for cruises or some such thing. They seemed like stepford
wives. I wondered
why these people who had obviously been in this business for a long
time, ( they were standing
for recognition of their point/percent levels), would be attending a
meeting in which the speaker
spoke only and embarrasingly enough to the 3 guests in attendance. (I
was 4 rows back and felt
like I was surrounded by Invasion of the Body Snatcher victims). It was
a Tuesday night almost
10:30 when it was over. And the couple that brought me said they had to
remain for another half
hour after I left. They both were C.P.A.'s and had small children.
Anyway, I am fully prepared to say no to them with the knowledge I've
gained, but with mixed
emotions after reading these nightmarish accounts. They have an air of
desperation about them
and I think they realize what a mess they're in. It's funny, but I had
no idea this Amway cult
existed and I feel sorry for people who are too trusting to know better.
Thanks again,

Subj: Web page
Date: 97-09-12 01:43:55 EDT
From: To: exambot@aol.com
Excellent web page. I was tempted to post several
pages of it outside of my cubicle, but as an
Amdroid sits across from me (yes, the
condescending, slightly-too-chipper tone, the
boxes of Modern Magic Meals all over her cubicle,
the scriptures about success on the wall - you know
the routine), I decided to keep it inside my cubicle.
I will, however, bring in a big empty box of Tide,
display it in my office, and say how great it cleans
my clothes - and for so little cost! And my washer
has never drained better or faster!
One of my close friends was brought into Amway
by the woman he was dating at the time. He is
known now as the "guy who overdresses". When I
asked him whether he was investing in our
company's deferred compensation plan, he said
that he was investing in "his business for his future."
He has called several friends three times to see if
they were interested in making more money - after
having been turned down twice, I would hope he
would get the picture.
His car has massive mileage on it, and is starting to
break down more often. I am afraid that he will
not get out until it's too late - and this person has a
decent income from his primary job. I am going to
send him some of the info from your site and
Sidney's site and see if he will open his mind
beyond the system.
I have seen many emails asking "well, dream
stealer, what do you have that's better?" Well, this
is what I have that's better:
1. Free time to do with as I please. I do not have
to wait until the future (which may or may not
arrive for each of us) to golf, swim, camp, hike,
woodwork, take a nap in the afternoon if I feel so
inclined - I can and do have these things now and
in the future as well. Time cannot be purchased.
2. No credit card debt because I don't buy it if I
can't pay cash;
3 . Investments that will provide me with substantial
income in the future because of the retirement
system at my J.O.B. (hey, Ambots, what's YOUR
retirement system? You still have to move product
and/or tapes, don't you? Um, hat to tell you, but,
that's called WORK...), the deferred compensation
program, and a diversified mutual fund portfolio.
4. Health insurance, also paid for by my J.O.B. (uh,
Ambots, when you "retire" from your J.O.B., what
are you going to do when you get sick? Those
vitamins may be concentrated, but not THAT
concentrated...)
5. Freedom to buy what I want and when I want,
not what I am forced to in order to make my PV
and still wait for delivery ("Gee, I wanted Salisbury
Steak, but all I have left is 56 of these Big Fiber
Cookies...). I also get free choice about whether I
feel something is worth the price associated with it.
If it's not, I shop elsewhere, or don't buy it. I also do
not have to put up with claims from a store clerk
that Glimmer toothpaste is worth $4.00 + a tube
because it's "concentrated". What, you put less on
your brush? Uh huh. Wanna buy a bridge? And
by the way, doesn't connoting "negative" feelings
toward inanimate consumer goods seem a little,
well, STRANGE to you?
6. A decent house that's half paid for in three years.
Actually, my friend's upline went through our house
and kept repeating "serious dreambuilding session"
in between repeated attempts at finding out how
much we paid for it. She still doesn't know. She
makes about what I make in my place of work.
7. The peace of mind in knowing that if someone
asks me what I do for a living, I can tell them up
front, and not have to hide the name of my
company because of past FTC litigation and
ongoing defamation lawsuits with Proctor &
Gamble.
What do I have that's better? Uh - what do YOU
have that's better?!?!?
And, by the way, this was not "given to me." My
father worked as a body shop and service
department foreman (he still made more in a year -
$12,000 - than most Amway directs, and had his
free time to teach me well about life in general
and cars in particular), my mom was a housewife,
and I went through school on loans. I work hard,
but I am by no means an overachiever. I am a
midlevel professional who would rather spend 5
minutes carefully planning than 5 years carefully
showing the plan. I am also blessed with a
working wife who knows more about managing
money than most people will ever hope to.
No, I never tried Amway. Never tried smoking or
shooting myself in the kneecap with a pistol, either.
Some things are so obviously bad that you pay no
attention to the advertising hype and pass them
by. Keep spreading the truth. Please do not use or
spread my name or Email address - I get enough
Email fluff already to last a lifetime.
Subj: Re: your hp

Date: 97-09-16 13:13:05 EDT
From: Reply-to: To: Exambot@aol.com
Dear Kelly,
Since the day I found your site about Amway, I've been finding a lot of
them. I think your is one of the best, because you show the main things
in a very easy-to-understand way.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm working in something that I would like could
become a book about my, and others, experiences in the mlm. Would you
give me your authorization to traduce and (if I get it) publish your
site? If I do it, would you like to tell your name, or not?
The reason is more or less the same as yours, I really need to share my
feeling with a lot of other people the have lived the same assurd
situation. I hope I'll obtain it.
Thank you, and hoping to hear from you soon,

Subj: WEB PAGE DREAMBUILDERS
Date: 97-09-16 18:28:08 EDT
From: To: Exambot
READING YOUR WEB PAGE MADE ME WANT TO CRY. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A NEW
QUEST IN LIFE AND TRY TO EDUCATE EVERYONE ABOUT AMWAY. I ALMOST LOST MY
HUSBAND DUE TO AMWAY

Subj: Amway tool business
Date: 97-09-18 11:07:13 EDT
From: nomore.scams@usa.net
To:
I got this e-mail address off your web pages. I am writing to you
anonymously, for reasons that I hope will be clear.
I was an Amway distributor for a LONG time -- over ten years. During
that time I totally bought into "the system," to the point that an
upline
Diamond was impressed at my loyalty (stupidity?) and invited me to work
in his office. As a result of this, I have learned many things that
sickened me.
Along with a former coworker who is equally sickened, I am doing
research, preparatory to possibly writing a book about the reality of
the
tool business behind the legitimate Amway business. We would be very
interested in hooking up with anyone who has hard, factual information
about
the $$ involved in the tools/system business.
If you can help with this, or if you know someone who can, I would
love to hear from you. Please e-mail to this address. I promise that I
will totally respect any requests for anonymity or confidentiality, as I
am
very aware that exposing these people and their enormous incomes could
become risky.
If you have a web page where you post messages from folks the way
Sidney Schwartz does, please feel free to post the following:
"Author researching tool business behind the Amway business is
interested in hearing from people with hard, factual information about
the $$
side of the tool business. Please e-mail to: nomore.scams@usa.net"
Subj: Re: Re: Amway tool business

Date: 97-09-19 05:22:34 EDT
From: nomore.scams@usa.net
To: Exambot@aol.com
Hi Kelly,
Thanks for the response. I will look up the Bill Britt interview.
Have you seen the lawsuit that Brig Hart just filed against Amway,
Yager, and a bunch of others?? The info just went up on Sidney Schwartz'
homepage.

Subj: WWDB Page
Date: 97-09-20 19:49:38 EDT
From: wwdbdmnd@MCIONE.com (WWDBCrwn)
To: exambot@aol.com
I really appreciate your spending the time and effort in putting
together
this very informative page. After reviewing your various points and
reading the extensive lists of responses, I realized once again why the
Amway opportunity and the various support systems within are such
debatable
topics. I can understand how you feel, and obviously your viewpoint is
fairly strong, displayed through the time it must have taken for you to
put
together such a well thought out page.
There was a time when I thought the very same things you do. But what
I've
found is that I was ignorant of a proper perspective. Yes, today I have
a
very large organization of distributors and have been fortunate enough
to
retire my wife and I from our Jobs at a very young age (19 and 23
respectively). I take very seriously the responsibility of leadership
that
we have earned by our work effort.
I am sorry that you and your husband, as well as many, many others have
been subjected to an upline who abused their influence and were too
selfish
to look out for their downline's best interests (Ironically, this
practice
always backfires and is, to say the least, counterproductive). It is
unfortunate that the overall viewpoint of the organization is based on
these people. Granted there is quite a few people that fall into this
category (perhaps, this is due to the fact that Amway does not reject
any
applicant regardless of his/her intentions or background), There are
many
of us that don't condone the practices that are expounded in your page.
I, nor any of those with who I associate, have ever claimed nor taught
that
the tools were a non-profit endeavor. A portion of the tools (Books,
tapes
and functions), do come back in the form of a royalty to those who made
them available. This is standard in any business through out the world.
A
musician, a writer, even preachers get compensated for their time and
effort, why should this be different? The tools are not overpriced, in
fact they are very reasonable. I have never, nor will I ever, condone
the
practice of someone purchasing tools when they can not afford them. In
fact, it is standard practice in our organization to loan tapes, books,
etc. to those who do not have the were-with-all to buy these things. It
is
also standing that if one does not find a function worth the investment,
the entire cost will be promptly refunded. Distributors who wish to
purchase tools, when short financially, are encouraged to buy them at
the
best price possible, even if that means purchasing books at a discount
store downtown. The last thing that we, as respectable, honest,
distributors need is people running around saying that they got ripped
off.
Amway is an interesting business. Compared to other traditional
businesses, it requires very little investment in both time and money.
This is an important distinction. Amway should not be compared to a job,
for it is not one; it is not recreation, and cannot be considered such;
it
is a business, that requires effort, money and time. I spent 5 years
looking at over 10,000 different opportunities. These ranged from every
type of business available. I found that Amway, and specifically World
Wide was what I was interested in pursuing. For me, it has worked
exceedingly well. As with anything though, different personalities and
upbringings will be attracted to different things. This does not make
one
good or bad, just different.
I end all my informational meetings with the suggestion that the
prospect
educate themselves before making a decision. This includes taking a trip
to the library and spending some time on the Internet. Yes, I want them
to
be open minded, but I don't want it so open that "Their brain falls
out."
People that "Blindly follow" are not leaders, I suspect they never will
be.
Yes, I saw, as you did, the problems with Amway and it's various systems
of support. Yet, I chose to continue on and attain a position within the
organization where I may be instrumental in the influence of change. I,
as
a part of the system, am far more anxious than you to filter those
people
and practices which give us all a bad name.
I once again apologize for those that gave you a bad taste of what this
organization is all about. I hope that in the coming years we will be
more
effective in training people in the correct way of approaching this
business. We strive for professionalism and excellence.
I will encourage my distributors and prospects to come visit your page,
so
that they may be educated on what they are getting involved in. I feel
it
is important that people are exposed to the good and the bad, before
making
a decision. If you chose to post this within your sight, I ask that you
do
not edit, or change it in any way. I ask you additionally, to print it
in
it's entirety so that one may understand things within the context that
they are written.
Thank you for you time,
WWDBDmnd

Subj: Re: WWDB Page
Date: 97-09-21 11:22:09 EDT
From: wwdbdmnd@MCIONE.com (WWDBCrwn)
To: Exambot@aol.com
Dear Kelly,
I once again apologize for the unethical practices of your upline. It
grieves me whenever I come upon a story like yours. Admittedly, they are
far too frequent. I understand not only your view point but also the
reasons that you arrived there. If I would have had a similar experience
as you I would feel the same way as you do. Like I said in my previous
letter, I do appreciate your page for it does expose what people need to
avoid. I also appreciate that you offer letters from both positive and
negative views.
Please understand that their are distributors that practice
professionally
and would cut unethical people out of their business regardless of the
volume they run. For many of us there is no substitute for doing what is
right.
Thank You,
WWDBDmnd
Ps. Please include my address in the posted letter. I stand by my words
and am available for the response, good or bad, that they bring.

Subj: AMmazing
Date: 97-09-23 17:32:38 EDT
From: To: exambot@aol.com
Lots of info. You have been able to put into words what I felt in my
guts.
Thanks.

Subj: Still suffering from the impact of Amway involvement
Date: 97-09-26 05:31:56 EDT
From: To: Exambot
I just finished reading your page, and I loved every word: it covered
every thought-control tactic,
guilt-inducing mechanisms, etc, that seem to pervade the Amway
phenomenon. I was involved
in Yager's organization, from what I understand a distant cousin of
sorts to Britt's org., but it
seems the coercive techniques are virtually identical(as they are in
most cults, I presume). I
never realized there was such a large number of people, like yourself,
who are posting such
sites, in attempts to "tell it like it really is." I suffered
relentlessly(emotionally, physically,
spiritually), as a result of my 2-year involvement with "The System,"
and honestly
believed(initially) that my failure to achieve anything resembling the
Diamond Lifestyle was
entirely my own fault. Its liberating to know I'm not alone in my
frustration. Hopefully others,
prospective "sheep", will encounter these sites, and be deterred from
making the same costly
errors....

Subj: love your page...
Date: 97-09-27 22:21:42 EDT
From: To: Exambot
CC:
it's funny, my wife and I have just been approached and we have attended
one of those opens
with the bonfire and the hayride. It seemed so unrealistic because
everyone was so friendly and
helpful. It was like the twilight zone. It seemed that some would look
at us like they were hiding
something from us, and now we know what. We did meet some who made 10
thousand a month
and seemed successful,
but then again, thats suspect. Thanks for the info and the page. Email
me at

Subj: Thanks for your Anti-Amway Pages
Date: 97-09-29 12:22:16 EDT
From: To: dcmdg@mail.cinetwork.com, exambot@aol.com,
schwartz@teleport.com,
wilke001@maroon.tc.umn.edu, jgreenfield@suacc.scu.edu
To Sidney, Ashley, Kelley, Charles, and Jason:
I discovered your pages over the course of the past year. I was an Amway
distributor briefly in 1991, and did not care for it at all. But in July
1995,
a "brother" at my former church hooked me at a time when I was
vulnerable. You
know the routine, all the friendliness, telling me I'm such a "winner",
want to
"help", etc. The organization was International Leadership Development
(ILD),
a group that broke away from World Wide Dream Builders in June 1995. Oh
yes,
such a "Christian" business.
I was disenchanted not only with the business but found that the
"friendship"
was good only if I kept in the "business", otherwise, it was surprising
how
there was never any time to build a "friendship"; after all, kids
"business
comes first" and "you understand - don't you"? My ass (excuse me, but
I'm still
angry, even after going inactive in October 1996 and ending my
distributorship
in February 1997). I could not, in good conscience, or more deeply, be
true to
my faith by using all the clever "techniques" on others that were used
on me.
When I discovered your sites during the past year, all I could say over
and over
was - "I knew that something was wrong, but I could not put my finger on
it".
You all did. I found myself reading your information, and although my
former
uplines were less blatant on things, it was still the same smooth talk;
what is
called in the South "shucking and jiving". And they were very good at
it. I am
deeply grateful to all of you for your courage to tell the real truth to
the
public, if I had only found you all a year earlier....
I wasted my money, my time, and my heart on those guys, and I deeply
regret it,
even after being out for seven months. So many of them claim they are
"Christian" - well, what is on their "reading lists" and in their
"tapes" is a
very subtle but deadly and perverted version, known in many circles as
"aberrant
Christianity" - and it is very dangerous! Hassan's mind control book and
site
do as good a job as any in exposing the AMO techniques and subtle games.
To all
who are considering this, be warned - it is a big con. Whether you are
Christian or not, stay away from it, it will mess your mind and heart
up. Just
keep on walking and don't talk to any of them.
Some, and I'm sure my former upline "brothers", would say I will be a
"dead
broke loser". Hmmm, someone bigger than I might tend to disagree with
your
assesment. Perhaps I am a "loser" - but I have a clear conscience
knowing I
don't scam my friends and fellow Christians, and I can look at myself
without
being ashamed. No Diamond, Double Diamond, Peter Island, or 25,000
member
organization can buy those things.
Keep up your outstanding work in warning people about this aberrant
"Christian"
cult and it's poisonous deceptions.
 

 

 RESPONSES part 7
 
 Worldwide Dreambuilders and The Things They Will Say To Profit From Your Dreams
 
 INFO LINKS
 
Exambot@hotmail.com