Well you had your peace.
Why is it that many people making a good income from this
company, and still
are to date as well as the new comers. Let me guess they were lucky, or
perhaps they put the effort in to better the position they were in. Before
you criticize a company you must understand that the one faucet of the
company you had dealings with is only one part and not the whole. Why has
the company had a greater growth than any company over the last decade. You
tell me. I am a true believer that the effort you put in to a project should
equal the returns, You tell me where you can get better results
from your own actions. It is not in the work place as long as you are
emplyed by some one else.
Subj: you winer
Date: 98-03-14 17:10:53 EST
just because the people in your web page couldn't pull
it off. Doesn't
tell me anything because if you look at what there doing now there
probably not successful in that either. I feel sorry for these people
but I guess I've been blessed in the people I'm associated with. They
didn't know there upline if they did they would be crying now
Date: 98-03-15 00:36:00 EST
Just dropping a line to say I couldn't help but laugh at some of the things that you said that brought back some horrific memories of the debt that I incurred while in my own personal store. I am now in my last year of chapter 13 backruptcy. Some people might say that no one held a gun to my head but they did hold the thought of rejection very close by. Believe it or not I am in bankruptcy because I missed 5 house payments to attend 1st a function then the other smaller things followed. No sense in me rambelling on you know the story you were there. It' s a funny thing how the mind reacts to the fear of rejection or being a failure ehhh!! Thanks for listening ...so to speak.
Date: 98-03-15 07:21:17 EST
I don't know where you are getting all the things that are written
here, and I guess it doesn't really matter. If you think you are
performing some kind of service that is helpful to others that is your
I'm just dropping you a line to let you hear my experiences with the
Worldwide Group. I have been associated with people in the WWDB group
for 6 years. I do not make a lot of money in the Business but that's
because I didn't put any effort into it yet.
I think people fail to realize that in anything that you get involved
in there are going to be people who take advantage of others. Yes, it's
a sad fact that some people get into the Amway Business with the wrong
intentions. But what I've personally seen is that these people tend to
fade away as soon as they find out that there's no quick Buck to be made
One of the best things about the Amway Business is that anyone can get
involved. This, unfortunately, is also one of the worst things about
I have never heard anyone from Amway or WWDB say that Proctor and
Gamble were involved in Satanic Cult activity. The only place I did
hear this was from your site. (I heard this as a kid, from my mother who heard it at an Amway meeting, and from what I read in this site, P&G is still dealing with this rumour years later. P&G bedeviled once again by satanism rumors )
Like I said before; I do not make a lot of money in the Business, but I
will vouch for the Character of the people that I have met from the WWDB
group. With their advice and councel I was able to get Debt free at the
age of 35. That was a year and a half ago. Total charge from the Amway
people who gave me that advice and helped me along had now come to the
grand total of $0.00. I find it hard to beleive that these same people
are making their fortunes off what I do. Because it's not much.
I may be complacent with where I am in life right now, but I do know
that a job is not the ticket to financial freedom. Most everyone I have
ever known has had a job, career, profession, etc.... and they do not
live the lifestyle of the Rich and Famous. In fact most every one of
them just sort of fade into retirement waiting to die. Unless they get
that great job of Greeter at the local Walmart Store when they are 66
years old. Then I see them at Christmas.
Please do not be offended by my letter. It is not meant to offend,
only to give you a different perspective. I can also let you know that
Amway does not have their own Religion or Churches. And I do not think
that Proctor and Gamble is a front for a wealthy Satanic Cult.
Have a nice life, and may all your days be good ones.
Subj: reply to dreambuilders home page
Date: 98-03-16 20:54:09 EST
I recently stumbled upon the Dreambuilders home page by
mistake. As I read
what was written there I kept an open mind. I hope you will too, as you
read what I write. The experiences posed there caused me to ask myself
many questions about the organization I am involved with. It is a group of
independently owned businesses that contract with the Amway corporation for
the sole purpose of distribution of products and services. In having the
ability to question my involvement with this group, with an open mind, I
came to the realization that I must not be "brainwashed". I would think
that if I were brainwashed, I could not take an objective view. Anyway,
the answers to the obvious questions go something like this. 1) At no time
have I ever heard in this group anyone profess that P&G or other companies
are cults or satanists. 2) There are many different views shared at the
optional business meetings, some strong, that could have religious
background. None of which that I have seen are stated to be required
beliefs to succeed in this type of business. 3) I cannot count on my
fingers and toes the different types of beliefs I have come accross in this
thing, both religious and personal. 4) If I had to sum up the organization
in a sentence it would most likely sound something like this; "The
organization I am involved with allows for free agency in the pursuance of
monetary compensation for effort provided".
Understanding that this Network Marketing business structure is primarily
based on the achievement and ideas of people, you must accept one thing, if
only one thing. There are a large number of "Wakos" out there. With the
fee for setting up an Amway distributorship only being $170.00, just about
anyone can "get in". Understanding that, you could expect that you would
come in contact with some unsavory characters if you were around a while.
So there may be some groups of distributors out there that say the
"Satanist" types of things.
What I know is this: I have owned conventional businesses before my Amway
distributorship. And what I have found with this business is an enormous
earning potential that is directly related to the work and effort invested.
If making money is of interest, the Amway corporation has made it a simple
thing to do. Notice I didn't say easy. There is work involved. To my
knowledge, though, this is the best thing going...and I've done research.
When I was skeptical I sought out more information. If you really want the
answers to why 25% of new millionaires come out of this concept. Approach
someone who is at Emerald level or above in the Amway business and keep an
open mind while you ask them your questions.
Date: 98-03-17 04:30:58 EST
thanks for ur very detailed and informative report
on the absolute rejection of amway.
when i brought a man in our apartment yesterday(!)
i had never heard of them
and i have to admit i was a little believing at first, with
the dreams and number games...
i can't believe how deeply involved this entire thing is
and i'll definetely simply give back the stuff
i hope that will be the end of it for me
for u i hope u r happy now and that they leave u alone!!!
Date: 98-03-21 17:55:28 EST
Various Amway distributors may have repeated the old canard
re P&G-Satanism, but unscruplous idiots (and there are rotten apples
in every barrel, particularly when the barrel contains money) repeat any
garbage they hear. I first heard the rumors about P&G being Satanic
sometime in the late '40's or early 50's. Since Amway was founded
in '59, they cannot be the source of the rumor, can they?
I make no claims about the pros and cons of Amway per se, just a reminder that garbage-slingers will throw anything without checking it out. I guess when you have an axe to grind, it doesn't matter how it's done....
Subj: you should face reality
Date: 98-03-21 21:32:27 EST
it's obvious that you had a bad experience,,and i've just
had a bad
experience with you, but don't bad mouth world wide,because i don't bad
mouth your mother for you being born. it's also obvious that you don't
believe in the word. i feel i'm wasting my time even talking to you.
Date: 98-03-22 17:34:00 EST
Thanks for the great page. The things
you have said about Amway and
these AMO groups are absolutely true!! Although at the moment I am still a
Amway distributor, I will definately not renewal my distributorship. I am
tired of the pressures, the cult mentality, and the deceptive methods used
to recruit people into this "business". It's certainly better to have
freedom of mind than mindless freedom.
Date: 98-03-23 01:24:13 EST
It is sad that you view an organization that has come
together for the good of this country
to help men and women to have goals, to have their priorities right, to love God, Country
and to be a server to people. It is very true that they help marriages, by helping the couple have a dream, goals together instead of apart. There is no business out there that promotes family - being together, and no business has a positive uplift to self esteem than the World Wide Dreambuilders.
I believe you got lead down the wrong path, maybe you better do some more research and
get your thinking straight! if you are so against their ideals, why are you spending time informing the public with more negative! WWDB is a positive experience!
Subj: In Response
Date: 98-03-25 07:51:58 EST
Hi, I just finished reading your article and I am so sorry
to hear your story. I am with WWDB and at the 4000 pin level and soon to
qualify for direct. Most of my volume has come from IHSS and corporate
accounts. This that I generated myself without my husband. This money has
allowed me to come how and be with my 3 kids instead of daycare. A great
victory for me. I am sorry of all of these things that happened to you.
My upline has never told me many of those things! If it wasn't for them
I would not be home today. I have sponsored only 6 people in 1 1/2 years
and they were customers wanting to buy wholesale. Please don't generalize
the things you were told as everyone in WW. My oldest is now attending
functions with me and it has helped her with career decisions and positive
mental attitude that she can be all she wants to be. Coming from a horrible
divorce I could have not done this alone. The men mentors in our upline
are truly wonderful people and have spent much more of their time and money
in this business to help me than I have them that is for sure (I am a long
distance let in MI, my up-line is in CA). Please remember that there are
people out there like me who this business is perfect for and it breaks
my heart that you may steal that only hope they might have for changing
their lives. I don't mean to offend you in anyway, just let you know there
is great stories out there on the other side of the fence.
Subj: WWDB web site
Date: 98-03-26 19:47:38 EST
I found your WWDB site very interesting. I had a friend
present the WWDB
plan to me about 3 months ago while I was home during Christmas. I work
and live in Tennessee and he lives in Wisconsin. Notice I didn't say he
worked also. He quit his job last Fall after going through a lot of
verbal abuse from his boss. AFTER which he signed up for Amway. From
what I have observed in talking to him he fits what you talk about to a
tea, Big money, buying wholesale, positive thinking power, everything
right down to the double X vitamins. I started researching Amway on the
web basically to find information, because he never sent me much. I was
suprised at all the negative experiences. A couple things to note. He
emphasized that you are sell the plan not the product. One way I believe
he tries to go work his way out of this problem is stating." You have
two checkbooks a business checkbook and a personal checkbook. You pay
your upline through you business checkbook to buy the product and then
you pay your business through your personal checkbook. Anyways I hope
that made sense. I still have not decided if I will become a distributor
or not. I in no way intend on buying tapes, books, or attend functions
and will not pressure recruits into it also, though I will offer it to
them, but not without telling them where the $$$ is being made in tapes.
I plan on asking my would be sponsor what kind of support I will get
through my upline if I do not intend to buy all this motivational crap
and don't sign up for AMVOX. It will be interesting. Thank you for your
site. You may not have made me not be a distributor, but you will help
me be a smarter, more ethical one. thanks
Subj: your web-page
Date: 98-03-27 01:01:35 EST
I just wanted to apologize for your bad experience(s)
while a part of
the WWDB system. I don't know which line of sponsorship you were in and
I guess it really doesn't matter at this point. The hardships and
struggles you endured while building -- I mean trying to build -- your
business are real. There is no question in my mind that there are a
large number of people within Worldwide who are not members of the moral
elite. However, your experience is just that -- your experience.
The Amway Corporation annually hires independent consulting
come in and analyze their business and practices. Without fail, for the
last ten years all of these firms have made one serious recommendation
-- raise the cost of the franchise to between $5,000 and $15,000. Their
reasoning is that with a kit costing $178 today, anyone can "get in."
And as you are aware, "anyone" does get in. By having a startup cost of
more than $5000, it would seriously weed out those people who aren't
willing to treat it as a professional business. Well, I thank God every
day that it didn't cost $5000 or more for me to get my kit, because if
it would have, I'd still be working 10-12 hours a day trying to find a
way of making more money.
I'm truly sorry you weren't able to associate and get
to know some of
the successful people who are a part of Worldwide. I wish you were
friends with some of the people I have as friends -- not only my upline
and downline, but all my previous friends from my pre-Amway days. Even
though some of them are very negative and doubtful about my success, I
have yet to be told not to associate with them or have them as friends.
My purpose in responding to your web-page is twofold.
First, I want to
thank you for caring enough to share your experiences in WWDB with the
rest of the world. It's obvious you want to keep other people from
making the same mistake you did.
Secondly, I encourage you to realize that there are two
sides to every
fence, and it appears that I stand on the side opposite of where you
stood. I was very skeptical and negative about Amway before I became a
distributor, just as I hope everyone is initially. But, I was fortunate
enough to become involved with a group of very high-class, morally
upstanding people who have helped me build a successful business in
spite of all the negative out there. And believe me, I thank God for
these people every day.
I have neither the time nor the energy to respond to every
made on your web page, but I would like to address two of them. As far
as Amway and WWDB being a pyramid goes, the nature of a pyramid won't
permit you to make more than those above you. Both your and my jobs are
more pyramid in structure than what I'm about to show you. Here's my
line of sponsorship and their annual incomes today.
My sponsor -- Bob Johnson, 1000 PV, 2nd month in the business,
Bob's sponsor -- Dave Grosvenor, Emerald, $300,000/yr.
Dave's sponsor -- Brad Wolgamott, EDC, $1.8 million/yr.
Brad's sponsor -- Brad Duncan, Double Diamond, $4 million/yr.
Brad's sponsor -- Greg Duncan, Double Diamond, $4.5 million/yr.
Greg's sponsor -- Terry Woodhead, Diamond, $500,000/yr.
Terry's sponsor -- Dave Severn, EDC, $2.5 million/yr.
Dave's sponsor -- Ron Puryear, Triple Diamond, $12 million/yr., and the
man who started WWDB.
I can guarantee you, nobody in my line of sponsorship
has ever been
foreclosed upon by a bank.
As for the other point to which I'd like to respond, I
have a hard time
understanding why you think the tapes are my upline's bread and butter.
The tapes cost $6 each for me to buy. They cost $6 for Bob, $6 for
Dave, $6 for Brad, and so on. If there is no markup on the tapes, how
do people make money on them? There's also no PV for buying tapes. The
$6 goes to WWDB to cover the cost of making the tapes and probably to
help fund the cost of the functions. Can you explain to me how so much
money is made on tapes by my upline? I'm interested.
If you've gotten this far, I thank you for taking the
time to read my
e-mail. In closing, I'd just like to encourage you to look at the other
side of the fence before you begin making accusations across the board.
I have no doubt that you had a bad experience with Amway and WWDB and
for that I'm profusely sorry. But please consider that because of the
low start-up fee, anybody can and will get involved. This is a people
business and MANY people are in it because it sounds easy, but as I'm
sure you've experienced, it takes a lot of work just like any other job
or profession. The only difference between your experience and mine
(besides our line of sponsorship) is the attitude with which our
respective organizations approach the business. We focus on helping
people start and run their own successful business in order to regain
hope and realize some dreams. In that process, we get paid for helping
people. It sounds like your organization focuses on making money and in
the process disappoints and uses people to that end. The Amway
Corporation and Worldwide Dreambuilders are both first-class
organizations. Please don't condemn the whole system for the faults of
a few people who call themselves a part of that system.
Subj: Response to web page
Date: 98-03-27 14:30:53 EST
You probably get tons of mail from people and I might
be repeating something
that you already have heard but I feel bad that you have so much anger
toward the good people that you have never met.
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with this business. Sounds like
someone led you down the wrong path. I would like to apologize on behalf of
all the good people in this business that really do want to succeed and
really do have good hearts. I know that every business has bad people, but
I hope that the ones that are honest and truthful don't get pulled into the
same boat as them. I have been working with Amway Corporation for 4 years
and I have not become rich. I know why too, because I have not really
treated this business like I treat my office equipment business. I see
similar paralells to my office equipment business using Sharp, Hewlett
Packard,and Ingram MicroSupply as my suppliers and starting a business
using Amway Corporation as my supplier. I think the people who start
business don't understand that relationship that they create when they
decide to invest into a business, whatever kind it is. Anyway hope that you
will be able to recover from you horrible experience in this business. Have
a great day.
Date: 98-03-27 16:10:00 EST
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I UNDERSTAND THAT MY CREDIBILITY WITH THOSE WHO AGREE WITH THE LETTER PRINTED HERE IS NOT WORTH MUCH, BUT HERE GOES.
I AM A BUSINESS OWNER THROUGH THE AMWAY OPPORTUNITY, AFFILIATED WITH WORLDWIDE. I HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THEIR BUSINESS MEETINGS FOR THE PAST THREE-ISH YEARS AND HAVE SEEN NO CULT-RELATED ACTIVITY.
YES, SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK FROM STAGE COME FROM A FAIRLY FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN BACKGROUND. IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH MEMBERS, IT IS A WAY OF LIFE, NOT JUST SOMETHING THEY DO ON SUNDAY. THIS OF COURSE INCLUDES THEIR AMWAY BUSINESSES (AND INSURANCE, AND TEACHING, AND RETAIL SALES, AND CONSTRUCTION, ETC).
I DO NOT ATTEND THE FUNDAMENTAL CHURCH SERVICES, AND I AM NOT EXPECTED TO. I HAVE MY OWN CHRISTIAN BELIEFS AND SPIRITUAL BASIS WITH WHICH I AM VERY HAPPY. THE INCLUSION OF THIS "OTHER" CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE IN THE MEETINGS IS, TO ME, AS NORMAL AS MY EXPRESSING MY PHILOSOPHY IN THE WAY I LIVE AND SPEAK. NEITHER VIEW IS FORCED ON ANYBODY. IF SOME PEOPLE DECIDE TO BE "BORN AGAIN" AFTER HEARING THESE SPEAKERS, THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD ANYTHING CALLING P&G SATANIC. IT'S MERELY THE COMPETITION, JUST LIKE FORD VS. CHEVY. WE THINK OUR PRODUCT IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS', (DUH!) OR ELSE I'D BE SELLING THAT. THIS IS A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY. NOT A CULT, NOT A RELIGION, NOTHING ELSE.
AS FAR AS A CHARISMATIC LEADER, FIND ANY CORPORATION IN THIS COUNTRY WHICH WAS NOT FOUNDED BY AN INDIVIDUAL'S DREAM, AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD "PEOPLE SKILLS" (I.E. CHARISMA) ENOUGH TO START THE CORPORATION, AND TO MAKE IT SUCCEED.
IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH, INVESTIGATE IT YOURSELF. YOU'LL FIND FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS, ATHEISTS, "MAINSTREAM" RELIGIONS, AND ANY OTHER AFFILIATION YOU CAN THINK OF. YOU'LL FIND ALL RACES, CREEDS, GENDERS, ETC. AS WELL. YOU MAY EVEN FIND A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER AVAILABLE, BUT THAT WOULD TAKE QUITE AN OPEN MIND.
Date: 98-03-27 19:54:42 EST
I'm in the wwdb group in Hawaii. I understand what
you are saying, and I see how some people go overboard. I am going
to try to keep control over the ammount of expenses my downline incurs
by conducting regular health and beauty breaks for them to earn enough
"seed money" to support the basic expenses of the business. I have
a driving school & my start up & initial investments were 10 times
more for my first year of business than the cost of tools, rallys, seminars,
etc... I wish you well and regret that you were not sponsored by
someone who helped you to at least break even. To be in over a year
and not make any profit is not good. I would probably quit too.