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RESPONSES Part One
 
 
 
Date: 4/20/97
No subject
Hi Kelly,
I read your website and thought it was very interesting. I'm curious
about something. A bunch of
us were talking at work the other day about how we have all been getting
hit by people at grocery
stores, restaraunts, etc...by people that approach us and make friendly
conversation, They never
let on during the conversation that they are going to try to sell you
something. They ask where
you work and about your kids, stuff like that. Then within a few days
they either call you at work
or at home and tell you how you appeared to them to be intelligent and
ambitious and wouldn't
you be interested in making a ton of money etc... The first time it
happened we were totally
shocked because we didn't exchange phone numbers or anything like that.
They just remember
the information you give them in friendly conversation and call you at
work which I think is awfully
nervy because how do they know that that person is even allowed personal
phone calls?!
A woman I work with was approached at ********, when she was waiting in
line for her coffee by a
very friendly woman also waiting in line. ***** got a little suspicious
because she was asking too
many questions for someone just making conversation. When the woman
asked her where she
worked ***** told her only "near by". We work about two buildings down
from ********, walking
distance. Anyway, the woman called her at work the next day which means
she had to have
followed her! ***** was furious! At no time do these people say what
organization they are with
or what they are selling. Once **** (her husband), even let one send him
a tape, he's been hit
about three times! So we could listen and see who they were with. They
never say! Even in the
tape! It's just a bunch of stuff about being successful and making tons
of money being your own
boss you know the speel.
Could this be Amway? Is this an approach they learn at their meeting or
something? If it is, I
can't believe that it ever works because the people that I know get
really mad that somebody
under the guise of being friendly to you is really just searching you
for personal information.
Anyway, sorry so long winded.

4/20/97
Subject: sounds familiar
Hi,
I't too true. I was involved for a little over a year with little gain.
Yes I did it all and heard the same things. I worked hard at it with all
profit going into *THE
SYSTEM* tapes books and functions.
They are great friends when they are making money off you, aren't they?
And now
nothing....hummm?. No calls just to make sure we are ok. My real friends
and family always
called while i was in and still do.
My wife was the smartest she never got involved, though she did go to a
few rallies upon my
request, but nothing else. Thank God we didn't divorce, she is the best.
Your Truly

4/21/97
Subject: Great Page!
Hi! Like you I was a distributor for a little over one year. Throughout
that time my wife and I grew
apart and spent money we did not have so I could.... Build the Business!
Thank God she did not give up on me before I gave up the business.
I sponsored a sister and a brother (as well as others). My sister
sponsored our other sister. This
other sister is the only one that has remained in the business. Once I
left the others quickly
followed. the sisiter that stayed is the most broke (always has been)
and is now completely
immersed in the business. Function after function. Borrowing $ from her
401K to fund it. She
has now also seperated herself from our family as much as possible to
spend time with her
upline family. It is a shame and its scary!
Keep up the good work. I wish I had looked before I leapt!
(I was in the Yeager Organization) "u gotta have a dream!!!!!!!!"
YECH!!!!

4/21/97
Subject: none
I just read your Amway page and thought it was very well written. I hope
a lot of people see this
and it does some good (i.e. gives people the courage to get out of it if
they are already involved;
or warns them not to get started in the first place).
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I'm sure it will make a
difference to a lot of people.

4/22/97
Subject: Your website
Interesting web site, Kelly, if that's your real name.
Before I blast a friend of mine for being in WWDB, how long were you and
your husband in the
business before you quit? How many people had you shared the opportunity
with? Who was
your upline diamond?
Finally, some of the things you mentioned in the first five or six pages
of your site are information
that can be found in most inspirational or self-help books that are on
sale anywhere. The
priciples taught in those books must work for bankers, real estate
agents, insurance salesmen,
religious people, etc. How come they don't work for Amway or WWDB
distributors?
Thanks for responding
(Same guy)

4/23/97
Subject: Your Reply
Thanks for responding so quickly.
One thing I have noticed about all the negative things that people post
about Amway on the
internet, in CompuServe, AOL and on other bulletin boards is that the
people who have had bad
experiences want to remain anonymous and don't want to identify anyone
who passed on illegal
or unethical information to other distributors.
The only exeception to this is that guy named Schwartz who, as I
understand it, has never been a
distributor, doesn't even hold a job, but has dedicated his life to
spreading false, old and negative
information about Amway to the world.
I've given this guy I know who is in WWDB some of Schwartz' stuff in
hopes that he will wake up.
But, he often laughs at the material and turns the wording around to
show how if the complaining
distributor was in another business he wouldn't have succeeded in that
business either.
To make my case worse, most of the things I find are anonymous. Whenever
I mention this
anonymous stuff to the guy in WWDB, he simply replies that if the
information ws accurate, the
person who is spreading it would be willing to identify himself or
herself as well as their upline so
that the problem can be verified and stopped.
He also said he attended a big leadership conference or something like
that in which the people
conducting the meeting talked about material on the internet and hinted
that they have already
hired attorneys and investigators who will be filing suit against the
site managers for libel because
they broadcast anonymous and untrue information. This guy said the
negative stuff on the
internet is no different than someone publishing a newspaper about a
company and delivering it
to peoples homes.
Be careful in maintaining your site.
( Veiled threat, or friendly warning?)

4/27/97
Subject: Question
I was first pitched amway when I was young (16) and since then a few
more times. Never got me
excited, I'll stand on my own two feet, thank you I thought. Lucky me;),
after reviewing your
coments (thanks).
I'm now 34 and have a sucessful product/company of my own. However, I
recently met a small
company that is taking a unique, and what appears very useful product to
the market, see them
at **************. I think they may be very successful. Should I get
involved?
So, can you give me your opinion of "network marketing", I've read about
them in the past and
been pitched a few times. Are they okay or are they all just another
amway scheme.
Thanks for your time and advice in advance.

4/29/97
Subject: Amway Business
Hi Kelly,
I've just visited your pages regarding the Amway Business. It looks
great! My wife and I used
to be very active Amway distributors but decided to quit a year and a
half ago. Everything you
mentioned in your pages are so true and I want to let you know that the
organization we were
associated to is called NETWORK 21. Even though it's a different
organization, their practice is
exactly the same as WWDB. It's good for you to lay out the facts to warn
people before it's too
late.
Regards,

4/30/97
Subject: amway
I just browsed through your page regarding AMWAY. Like most web pages
against WWDB
& AMWAY, yours is a terrible story. I am glad you finally got out from
under the debt-making
machinery. My interest with AMWAY is because I see a friend running down
the same path you
took (although he does not admit it). It appears that he is "gung-ho"
with his "business", yet his
wife and two teenaged kids are not. they tell me it is "his" business,
and his alone! He has also
converted to become a Christian to be like his upline.
My suggestion for your web page is a sample of just what 100PV per month
entails. Maybe if
you could jot down some product groupings into 100PV bundles, the
curious AMWAY prospcts
will be able to see just how much volume of products must be maintained
(consumed or retailed)
on a monthly basis in order to survive in the AMWAY business. IT WILL
ALSO BE
EDUCATIONAL IF YOU COULD SHOW EXACTLY WHAT 100PV PER MONTH ACTUALLY
COSTS.

5/3/97
Subject: Ex WWDB member
Kelly, thought your site was great. My husband and I recently left
worldwide after the worst year
of our life. Our sponsors wife tried to commit suicide, our ruby directs
got a divorce after he was
cheating on her. (What about that 5% divorce thing) So much for the
vertical alignment. It is
really sad how they use your dreams against you. We were quite depressed
for awhile and felt
like loser eventhough we have successful careers. We spent about 18,000
and figure we are
8,000 in debt. We have good jobs so we will be able to pay it off. The
expense is what always
bothered me. They tell you the way to deal with it is to sponsor people,
but then they also have
the problem of it being so expensive. I didn't feel right about that. I
guess we weren't cutthroat
enough. Some crossline told us that our sponsors is telling his downline
that we quit because we
are having marriage problems. My husband went through the roof over that
one. He called our
exsponsor and told him that he was wrong for telling people that. He
informed him that when we
finally got both oars in the water, and got together together....we
quit. We now joke that our
dream was just too "BIG" for Amway. I will be glad when this whole
experience is behind us. It
helps that there are web sites out there. I just wish that we would have
seen it a year ago. I am
coppying your ifo and sending it out to all of our crossline that are
still friends because I know
deep down they feel the same way I do. I hope that I can save them some
time and money.
Yes, can you believe it, our upline sponsored people that were close
friends of ours when they
hardly knew them. How is that for a smart business decision. Talk about
tense moments. They
showed us the plan and then showed them the plan three weeks after we
got in when they knew
we were going to. I guess we should have known then. Thanks for
listening.........*********.

5/8/97
Subject: Amway/WWDB page
I just finished reading your page on WWDB. I have been following the
various anti-Amway sites
since I joined Amway/WWDB in September of 95. Gosh, hard to believe it's
been that long.
Your's is only the second one that referenced WWDB directly.
I'm not entirely sure where I'm at right now. I'm either about to quit
or about to really try and do it
for a while. I certainly haven't done much in the time I've already been
in. I've showed maybe
10-15 plans in the last 1 1/2 years, and have sponsored 2 couples, one
of them being my
parents. I've been at college for most of the time, and I have only been
working for about a
week.
I have been almost mercilessly thorough in my examination of Amway and
WWDB. With all the
things outlining what's wrong with it all that I have read, my continued
membership would puzzle
anyone. Knowing my personality as I do, I am quite sure the reason for
my inaction in WWDB
has been the doubts raised by the things I have come across. And I would
say that some are
valid doubts.
So, you ask, why are you writing me? Just one more step in the process.
One more person to compare notes with and see what we agree and disagree
on. You seem a
bit less of a
"fire-breathing-hatred-spewing-foul-mouthed-amway-distributors-will-burn
-in-hell-
antiambot" than a lot of people. Seriously, you should see some of these
people. You probably
have.
First I have a few questions, then a few comments. It would be good to
hear from you.
!. Whose line of sponsorship were you in? If you could outline it pretty
specifically I would
much appreciate it. the other anti-WWDB site that I noted was from the
Dougherty organization,
which, broke off from WWDB before I ever got in. I have definitely
noticed different approaches
to a lot of things in different lines of sponsorship.
2. When were you in?
3. Did you personally ever have customers? What did you do when you
showed the plan and
they said no to a "Big Business"? Did you use the In Home Shopping
Service?
4. What kind of activity level were you at? How long did you stay at it?
I have heard negative
stuff from people who showed no plans all the way to ones who claimed to
have showed 5 plans
a week for 6 months. I'm not sure what a good indicator of anything it
is, but I am curious.
5. Did you find all of the products to be overpriced or ineffective?
Most? Some?
6. Did you sign a Tool Agreement Form when you signed up? I did, and it
talked
strongly about tools being optional and refundable, but more important,
it stated plainly that
upline directs and above profited from tapes and functions. This was at
the sign-up. I have also
once heard it mentioned at an open (Jimmy Head).
7. Exactly how did your immediate upline pressure you to buy tapes, go
to functions etc? I
mean your immediate upline. The tapes are obvious and and there for
anyone to examine, but
my own upline has never pressured me to do anything crazy or even
slightly self-destructive to
buy tools. the only thing I heard when I said I was a little tight
financially have been some tips on
retailing.
8. Exactly how seriously was retailing taken in your line?
Those are just a few general questions. I don't want to give you the
third degree here, but I need
to make some sort of decision (get out, kill my upline, go diamond,
etc.) or I will go crazy.
Now a few comments
The products: I would be inclined to disagree with you on the quality
and affordability of them.
The cleaning products I have always thought to be a fairly good deal, as
has my frugal mother
even before she got in. As for the higher priced make-up and nutritional
supplements, I admit to
being a bit put-off by the price. I would say that although Double-X is
a completely unique
product (I have looked long and hard for ANY mulitviamin that comes
close in quality by anyones
standards) it is still quite a lot to pay $50 a month for vitamins of
any kind. Still, I have had over
the last year and a half mor PV from Double-X(most from customers,
believe it or not) than any
other product. Since I don't wear make-up, I have simply have simply
taken the word of female
family and aquaintences that it is good stuff, but only if you generally
spend money on good
makeup.
I have some more comments, but I really have got to run now. If you
could respond to my
questions and somments so far I would be thrilled. I have a lot of
information I'm sure you would
be interested to hear, and I hope we can chat some.

 

 RESPONSES part 2
 
 Worldwide Dreambuilders and The Things They Will Say To Profit From Your Dreams
 
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