I do not believe in either pre, post or mid tribulation, or in anything that would cause the Church of Christ to ESCAPE tribulation anywhere in the scriptures. In fact, I fail to see that the time of great tribulation will cause any of us any harm at all, in fact, quite the contrary. When the Lord does come to judge the earth, He will do so TO SET CREATION FREE. The entire gamut of what modern Christianity has taught to date, and including the past 250 years, has all been based upon one single premise. That premise is that God is angry. God was taken by surprise when Adam ate of the forbidden tree (which tree God made anyways), and ever since God has been trying to figure out who will and who won't accept His sacrificed offering through the body of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I do believe that there is coming a time of great tribulation, which will in turn spark this world into ignition wherein all the works will be consumed by God who is a consuming fire. But that comes to the world when the world's cup of iniquity (self will), is full to the brim.
The whole point though is not that God may or may not be mad, or that there will be great tribulation and rapture escapism theories. The whole point is that God subjected all of creation to the bondage of corruption to one day set all creation free again by THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD.
God has a company, a remnant, all through History and up to today, who are chosen OUT from all the rest. From all of Christian denominationalism. From anything political, and one day anything economic. According to Romans ch 8, when the sons of God are manifested in the earth, and they come forth in glorified bodies, they will set creation free THROUGH the judgements of God, for they will be ruling and reigning with the Lord on the Throne. All creation will come into their liberty. No one will be exempt from that liberty. It will then be an earth where in righteousness and pure holiness dwells. Nothing of the old adamic fallen order will remain.
Here are my thoughts on the world today. Nothing is happening anywhere in the world that God is not intimately DOING. Both the interplay of good and evil come from the Lord who created both, just as He created light and darkness.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Everything that is happening is happening according to the purpose of God for each individual person in all of the earth, no matter who they are. And if they are involved in a cult or false religion, they are still being worked on to one day be drawn to Christ to receive salvation.
There is nothing happening in Israel or in Iraq or anywhere that has anything to do with God's timetable for the rapture or for Christ catching His church away out of the earth. There is NO rapture and the church WILL NOT be taken out of the earth, but will remain to INHERIT IT. What God is going to do HE WILL DO RIGHT HERE IN THE EARTH.
Nothing at all can happen that God will not work into ultimate good for all mankind and for any individual person, the ultimate end will be His fullness in each one till God is all in all (or everything to every one). There is nothing in the news, or on the political or economic scene anywhere that can bend God to DO something as regards rescuing or getting the Church of Christ out of here before some *anti-christ* rises to be *as god* sitting in the temple of God ready to deceive and doom for all eternity the lost in an endless hell. There is NOT going to be a singular man stand up who will be the anti-christ. Everything now that is of carnal fallen adam is ALREADY anti-christ; (anti - over against). There is NO SUCH THING as any one person, anywhere, from all time, from any past age or any future age, who will be in a Christless eternity! There is not ONE SINGLE SOUL that God will NOT save!
Jesus said that all that the Father gave Him, He lost none, EXCEPT the Son of Perdition, that the scriptures might be fulfilled. Christendom has said that the Son of Perdition was Judas who betrayed Christ. But I say that the son of perdition IS YOUR CARNAL ADAMIC OLD NATURE MAN. It alone will be LOST for all eternity and REPLACED with the life of God through Christ as born-again saints, filled with His fullness, lacking NOTHING of the life of Christ.
Our modern events are just that, modern events, the way of the world, but God is intimately involved in every single situation from one end of this planet to the other, and in each and every single soul that is alive now, and in each and every soul that has left the earth through death and is now in a state of death. God is working in each one to bring them into the salvation that is found only in Christ.
There will be multitudes in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. Guess what? YOU AND I, WE ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE OR THE SECOND DEATH. We are all ordained by God as His created beings to partake of the fire of God. No one will be unable to escape the flames of hell at all. They can, however, go through it NOW rather than later. They can partake of the baptism of fire now, or later they can swim in that lake, but the fire will consume ALL that is ungodly in them. All of this adamic realm is the only fuel that fire can envelop; the life of Christ cannot be hurt by this fire. He that overcomes cannot be hurt by this fire. They that overcome will stand ON this fiery sea and will sing the song of Moses and the Lamb having the harps of God, singing a NEW song, saying : Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Guess what, the mark of the beast, 666, you know, that mark that Christians are dreading will come soon? Be it a computer chip or whatever. That mark YOU ALREADY HAVE. YOU HAVE THE MARK 666 BLAZENED ON YOUR FOREHEAD AND IN YOUR RIGHT HAND ALREADY. And guess what, EVERYONE DOES. No one is without that mark. It is not a mark that WILL come, it is a mark that IS. And that mark is THE THOUGHTS (FOREHEAD) OF OUR FATHER ADAM AND THE WORKS (RIGHT HAND) OF OUR FATHER ADAM. Our problem is NOT GETTING this mark, our problem is GETTING RID OF IT. We already have it. If you buy something, you have it, if you work for something, you have it. It is the way of this world. It is the life of the 1st death, dead in trespasses and sins. In the verse mentioned above, the overcomers got the victory over the beast, his image, and his mark and the number of his name.
Remember when God took Abraham out to reveal His promise to him, how that He showed him the stars? And God said that as innumerable as the stars were, so should Abraham’s seed be. Then God takes Abraham out and shows him the sand of the sea shore, innumerable. And that God said also was the number of his seed. Let me ask you. What happens when you combine sand with fire, what do you get? GLASS. This sea of glass that the overcomers are standing on is ALL HUMANITY CONSUMED IN THE FIRE OF GOD. That is what the sea is.
Do you know what the term "The lake that burneth with fire and brimstone, this is the second death" means? In the original, the term "brimstone" meant "Divine Holiness". The entire King James statement for "The lake that burneth with fire and brimstone" should read - DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT BRINGING FORTH AN UPWARD CHANGE. What about second death. Christendom says that people will have a death of the body then a death of the spirit, which is eternal, in the lake of fire, where they will be tormented forevermore. Guess what, NO ONE ON THE EARTH NOW, OR THAT HAS EVER BEEN ALIVE ON THE EARTH, OR THOSE WHO WILL YET LIVE ON THE EARTH ARE EXEMPT FROM SECOND DEATH. We are all going to fully partake of SECOND DEATH. You are not exempt in any fashion from the consuming fire of God or the process of second death.
You see, you began, in eternity past, as a spirit, in the mind of God, in pure spirit form. You were if you could imagine it, a little cell, in the brain of God, that was of His substance (spirit), and of His nature. Then the day came when you were conceived in your mother's womb, and the union of that sperm and egg (zygote), was the very moment that God implanted the spirit you are into that which is here. At that moment, which you cannot remember, you died to any remembrance of God; any thought of God, and you became alive to this present evil world. That was 1st death. If there is a second death, there must have been a first one. The first one was that you died to God, and came alive to this world. Now the second death is when you die to this world and come alive again to God. That second death, by the process of the lake of fire comes 3 ways. You can deny yourself (1st death person) and take up your cross and follow Jesus, OR, you can partake of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (tongues of fire), OR you can go to the lake of fire. But the outcome for everyone is the same; all will have second death fully worked into them until NOTHING of the 1st death will remain. So in other words, the second death IS the death of death! No one is exempt from this, but each man in his own order 1 Cor 15.
So as for political/war/economic/religious events in the world - THE NATIONS ARE AS A DROP IN THE BUCKET TO THE LORD. Isaiah 40:15. NOTHING that is happening has ANYTHING to do with God getting us all out of a pickle etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with setting us free in time in Christ.
God does not bend His divine holy will to the circumstances in the earth, or changing money systems, or the illuminati, or the raleans or anything to do with the pope or non popes, He is working all things according to the counsel of His own will. And everything that is happening in the earth is being done according TO the will of God and for the ultimate purposes of God. Saddam Hussein, George Bush, those guys are only in the place God has them in for HIS purposes, nothing else. The assault of terrorism that has and will yet happen is all part of God's ultimate plan to work all things into good for all mankind. The end result of all that is happening will be the revelation and establishment of The Kingdom of God in the earth with all nations coming into it.
That is what I see of the present world situation.
THIS IS THE WAY OF THE LORD. HE WEANS US OFF OF WHAT WE ONCE HAD AS A 'COMFORT' ZONE AND MAKES US MOVE ON; THE TABERNACLE IN THE WILDERNESS HAD TO FOLLOW THE PILLAR OF FIRE WHEREVER IT WOULD GO, SO WE HAVE TO LEARN TO FOLLOW ON AS THE LORD STIRS US UP OUT OF OUR COMFORT ZONES TO GO ON IN HIM. THERE ARE LOTS OF EXAMPLES IN SCRIPTURE OF SOME OF THE TRIBES STAYING AT ELIM OR WHEREVER THE PALM TREES WERE TO JUST BE THERE AND NOT GO ON ANYWHERE. THAT IS NOT WHAT GOD WANTS; HE WANTS US TO GO ON TO PERFECTION.
WE ARE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF BEING MATURED, IT IS NOT A DONE DEAL SO TO SPEAK, ‘CAUSE WE ARE BORN, BUT THEN WE HAVE TO GROW UP INTO HIM IN ALL THINGS. WE ARE IN A TIME WHEN PEOPLE WILL GROW FAST IN THE LORD, YET PERFECTLY ALSO.
IT IS INDEED A BLESSING TO KNOW THE SCRIPTURES - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE WORD CAUSES ONE TO BE DRAWN IN HUMILITY TO WALK WITH THE LORD IN HIS TRUTH. THE LETTER OF THE WORD CAN PUFF ONE UP, BUT TO KNOW THE LORD IS HUMBLING, CAUSE THAT IS HOW CHRIST IS, HUMBLE, YET GLORIFIED. THERE ARE SOME IN THE EARTH RIGHT NOW WHO HAVE NEVER READ A PAGE OF THE SCRIPTURE, YET ARE OVERCOMING ALL THINGS BECAUSE THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS THE LIVING WORD TO THEM.
THE MAIN GIST OF WHAT GOD DOES IS TO REMOVE FROM US ANY AND ALL RELIGIOUS EFFORT. THERE IS NOTHING OF THE RELIGIOUS WORLD THAT WILL IMPRESS FATHER IN ANY WAY. WE ARE ENDURING TRIBULATION TO REMOVE BABYLON (CONFUSION) FROM US IN ITS ENTIRETY. WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THAT BASIC, YOU ARE ONLY DOING WHAT ANY OTHER SON OF GOD WOULD DO, AND THAT IS TO REMEMBER WHO WE ARE IN GOD. RELIGIOUS EFFORTS HAPPEN WHEN WE THINK GOD NEEDS US TO "DO" SOMETHING. GOD DOES NOT NEED ANYTHING FROM US EXCEPT FOR FAITH. AND THAT IS HIS TO BEGIN WITH.
THIS IS HOW THE LORD DOES HIS WORK; HE USES HIS BODY TO CONFIRM HIS WORD. AND IF THE BODY OF CHRIST IS SENSITIVE TO A MEMBER SEEKING DEEPER TRUTH, THEIR WORDS TO THAT SEEKER WILL RESOUND IN HIM AS A GLORIOUS JOY AND A WONDERFUL SONG OF PRAISE TO OUR REDEEMER.
THERE IS NOTHING IN GOD TO PREVENT US FROM COMING TO HIM. ALSO, IT IS THE WORK OF GOD TO DRAW EACH ONE OF US UP HIGHER IN CHRIST. YOU ARE FORGIVEN EVEN BEFORE YOU ASK. IT IS NOT A RELIGIOUS MOTION OF TRYING TO NAME EACH SIN OFF TO GOD, NOR TO CONFESS SIN TO A MAN. YOUR OLD NATURE CAN ONLY SIN; YOUR NEW NATURE CANNOT SIN. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD SEES YOU IN THE NEW NATURE, OLD THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY, BEHOLD, ALL THINGS BECOME NEW. THAT WHICH IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH, THAT WHICH IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT. BELIEVE IT, FOR THAT IS WHAT THE WORD OF GOD STATES.
WE HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE POWER OF THE ENEMY, AND THAT BY SIMPLE RESISTANCE HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU. GOD ALSO AT THE SAME TIME USES THE POWERS OF DARKNESS FOR HIS ULTIMATE PURPOSES. GOD WILL ALLOW THE ENEMY TO ATTACK AND SPEAK TO AREAS IN YOUR LIFE THAT ARE NOT IN LINE WITH THE WILL OF GOD. THE ENEMY, FINDING A FOOTHOLD IN YOUR LIFE IN THAT CARNAL AREA, IS ABLE TO SET UP SHOP SO TO SPEAK, AND TO WORK DECEPTION TO AND IN YOU. THIS IS DONE BY GOD'S PERMISSION. GOD CAN ACTUALLY COMMAND THE ENEMY AND EVIL SPIRITS TO TAKE A PERSON INTO DECEPTION OR OFF ON A WILD TANGENT. THE REASON? SO THAT WHEN THE PERSON'S PERSONAL INIQUITY IS FILLED UP, GOD WILL THEN SPEAK TO THE PERSON HIS WORD, AND THROUGH REPENTANCE THAT PERSON WILL OVERCOME.
DEVILS ARE TOOLS IN GOD'S HAND, CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF ALL PRINCIPALITY AND POWER IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES, AND THEY EXIST BY HIM AND FOR HIM AND FOR HIS PURPOSES. HELL IS DEFINITELY A REAL PLACE, BUT IT IS NOT THE LAKE OF FIRE. HELL IS THE PLACE WHEREIN THE SOULS OF MEN AND SPIRITS ARE KEPT UNTO THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT TO BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. IN FACT, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN HELL NOW ARE LONGING FOR THE LAKE OF FIRE. THEY ARE PRAYING FOR THAT JUDGEMENT TO COME TO THEM SO THEY CAN BE CAST INTO THAT LAKE - FOR IT IS IN THAT LAKE THAT THEIR BONDS WILL BE REMOVED AND THEY WILL BE SET FREE OF THE BONDAGE THAT HOLDS THEM IN HELL. THEY WILL BE FREE TO ENTER INTO FATHER'S FULLNESS WHICH IS THE PROMISE OF GOD TO ALL CREATION. A GREAT DAY OF REJOICING WILL BE WHEN GOD, THROUGH JUDGEMENT, CASTS THE WICKED INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY THAT WILL BE FOR THOSE WHO ARE THUS CAST THERE! FOR IT IS THE DAY OF THEIR LIBERTY. IT IS THERE THAT ALL SIN, INIQUITY, THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME, ALL OF IT, WILL BE REMOVED FROM THEM.
AND THE LAKE OF FIRE IS NOT A 'GEOGRAPHICAL' LOCATION. IT IS A REALM OF SPIRIT, IN GOD THAT CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM GOD, FOR OUR GOD IS THAT CONSUMING FIRE. AND SO ARE HIS MINISTERS, FOR HE MAKETH HIS MINISTERS AS A FLAME OF FIRE. IN OTHER WORDS, THE OVERCOMERS ARE THE MINISTERING FLAMES OF THE FIRE OF GOD. AND THEY IN UNITY, AND JOINED TOGETHER FORM THAT LAKE INTO WHICH THE UNGODLY, THE SINNER, THE REPROBATE, WHOREMONGERS, ADULTERERS, AND ALL LIARS AND ALL THAT ARE IN THE REALM OF 1ST DEATH ARE CAST. THE OVERCOMER IN CHRIST, IN THE BODY OF CHRIST - IS THAT LAKE. THE LAKE OF FIRE IS NOT SEPARATION -*FROM*- GOD, IT IS A SEPARATION -*TO*- GOD. NO ONE IS EXEMPT FROM THIS JOINING TO GOD, HIS LOVE IS FAR FAR FAR FAR TOO STRONG TO LET ANY SOUL BE LOST, JESUS LEAVES THE 99 SHEEP IN THE FOLD TO SEEK AND SEEK AND SEEK AND SEEK AND SEEK UNTIL HE FINDS THAT ONE THAT IS LOST ON THE CLIFF OF DESTRUCTION, THEN HE SAVES AND SAVES AND SAVES AND SAVES CAUSE THAT IS WHAT JESUS IS, OUR SAVIOUR, THE SAVIOUR OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.
HELL IS NOT SEPARATION FROM GOD. IT IS THE GLORIOUS FULFILLMENT OF GOD. WE ARE TOLD IN MARK 9:44 THAT THE WORM DIES NOT AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. I DON'T KNOW HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THIS, BUT IN MY MIND, THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST TREMENDOUS PROMISE WE CAN FIND IN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE. THE WORM DIES NOT, THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED! THESE WORDS FROM THE LIPS OF OUR SAVIOUR. JUST THINK OF IT ROB! NOTHING WILL STOP THE FULL REDEMPTION OF HUMANITY, THE WORM WILL NOT STOP IT'S FEASTING UPON ALL FLESH, AND THE FIRE WILL NOT GO OUT -*UNTIL*- ALL HAS BEEN CONSUMED THAT IS NOT OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD! AND THAT ROB, INCLUDES DEVILS!!!!
I WANT MY RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD TO GROW DEEPER. AND HOW BETTER TO GROW DEEP IN GOD THAN TO RECEIVE THAT PEARL OF GREAT PRICE, EVEN THE RESTORATION OF ALL CREATION? BETTER YET, HOW ABOUT FINDING OUT THAT YOU WILL BE A TOOL IN GOD'S HAND TO BRING THAT RESTORATION? WHY? CAUSE YOU TOO WILL BE A MANIFESTED SON OF GOD!
I HAVE JOY BECAUSE GOD SAW FIT TO LET ME LIVE IN FIRST DEATH SO I COULD HAVE THE ABUNDANT JOY OF EXPERIENCING, AND OVERCOMING -*IN*- SECOND DEATH! READ WHAT THE GLORIFIED CHRIST SAID IN REVELATION CH2 AND 3 TO "HIM THAT OVERCOMETH". HE DOES NOT SAY THAT THEY WON'T HAVE TO EXPERIENCE SECOND DEATH OR HELL OR ANY SUCH THING. HE SAYS THAT WE WON'T BE -*HURT*- BY IT IF WE OVERCOME. IN OTHER WORDS, WE DO HAVE TO EXPERIENCE THE FIRES OF GOD, AND THE PROCESSINGS IN THE NITTY GRITTY OF EVERY DAY LIVING, AND PAYING BILLS, AND RAISING KIDS, AND BEING HUSBANDS/DADS/WAGE EARNERS. AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO OVERCOME? VERY VERY VERY SIMPLE. IN THE MIDST OF OUR EVERY DAY LIFE, WE LOOK UNTO THE FACE OF OUR LORD, FIXING OUR GAZE STEADFASTLY UPON HIM, AND HE BRINGS US THROUGH EACH TEST FOR HIS GLORY. THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT. TO THOSE THAT OVERCOME, THEY WILL BE GRANTED BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TO SIT WITH HIM UPON HIS THRONE, JUST AS GOD GRANTED CHRIST TO SIT WITH HIM IN HIS THRONE. IN OTHER WORDS, OUR END IS TO SIT ON THE THRONE. WHY? SO WE CAN GLOAT ABOUT HOW NICE WE LOOK THERE?
NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO!
WE ARE GRANTED THAT PLACE TO SIT AND REIGN FOR ONE PURPOSE ONLY, AND THAT IS TO SET CREATION FREE TO COME INTO THE VERY SAME LIBERTY, THAT GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL (or everything to everyone).
GET IT OUT OF YOUR MIND THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF SEPARATION OF GOD FROM MANKIND. THERE IS NO SEPARATION. CHRIST'S CROSS HAS BRIDGED THE GREAT GULF FIXED BETWEEN US. IN YOUR MIND YOU ARE THINKING THAT THE LAKE IS A PLACE OF TORMENT. THE ONLY THING TORMENTED THERE IS THAT THING THAT CANNOT ENTER GOD'S PRESENCE, AND THAT IS YOUR FALLEN ADAMIC NATURE. THAT MAN OF SIN WHICH CHRIST CRUCIFIED IN HIS BODY ON THE TREE. IT IS THAT MAN OF SIN IN US THAT THE WORM AND THE FIRE WILL CONSUME TILL IT BE ALL GONE.
IN TIME THIS WILL BECOME CLEARER.
WHAT DOES MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY (I’ll call it Christendom) TEACH? THEY TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT, ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM CHRIST, CHRISTLESS ETERNITY. THEY TEACH THAT GOD IS MAD, THAT GOD WAS SURPRISED THAT ADAM ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. THAT GOD IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO WILL ACCEPT JESUS AND WHO WON'T. WHO WILL MAKE IT TO THE SHORES OF HEAVEN AND WHO WILL BE LOST? THEY TEACH THAT NATURAL ISRAEL IS SOME SORT OF SIGN. THAT THE RAPTURE IS SOON TO HAPPEN.
WHEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH COMES TO YOU IT CAN DO A VERY UNIQUE THING. THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WILL ACTUALLY GIVE YOU A DOUBT! IT WILL MAKE YOU "DOUBT" WHAT YOU THINK IS "TRUTH". WHEN THAT DOUBT COMES AS TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE, THE RELIGIOUS TENDENCY IS TO DISMISS IT AS SATAN, BUT IT MAY NOT BE SATAN, IT MAY BE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH THROWING YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM OUT OF COMMISSION. BUT GOD IS FAITHFUL. HE IMMEDIATELY HAS READY HIS TRUTH TO INTRODUCE ONE TO.
WHEN I TELL YOU THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST, THAT YOU ARE DESTINED TO BE CONSUMED IN THE FIRES OF GOD, THAT YOUR LIFE WILL BE REMOVED SO CHRIST'S LIFE WILL BE SEEN, THEN LISTEN, FOR WHAT I AM SAYING IS TOTALLY CONTRARY TO ALL OF CHRISTENDOM. THE TRUTH IS WE HAVE THAT MARK IN OUR FALLEN CONDITION. AND OUR FALLEN CONDITION, ALONG WITH THE MARK, IS DESTINED TO BE REMOVED FROM US BY THE SPIRIT OF BURNING (daily trials and tests), SO THAT WE CAN WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH. THAT WE ARE DESTINED TO OVERCOME HERE ON EARTH AND NOT ESCAPE BY SOME SORT OF RAPTURE WHICH CANNOT BE FOUND IN SCRIPTURE. ALL SUCH THINGS YOU FREELY WEIGH IN PRAYER, AND KNOW THAT GOD WILL CONFIRM HIS WORD TO YOU.
I was raised very lukewarm as a child, so can't say "always" as a Christian, some of my life was very UN Christian. However, when I was a lad of about 7 years of age, the Lord visited me. I was riding my 'big horn" bike on the dusty northern Alberta roads in the middle of a hot prairie summers day. The presence of God enveloped me and with tears streaming down my face and with as loud a voice as I could, bouncing on the seat of my bike, I worshipped God who was touching me so deeply. He made me to know at that tender age, 40 years ago now, that I was his own special possession. Then everything that could go wrong did go wrong. My life was assaulted ever since. I nearly got killed by a cattle stampede, a steer once stepped on my back and held me down in the watering trough, an engine exploded in my face at the age of 13 removing both frontal lobes of my brain and leaving me with 1/16th of an inch of skull above my eye sockets. Tribulations, distresses, necessities, wants, persecutions, deceptions, spirits of evil in horrific onslaught that would have killed an ordinary man (Ross McKay can fill you in on that one), and at the same time being given, by God Himself, that pearl of great price, even the restitution and restoration of all His creation into fullness with Father Himself. The knowledge that in eternity past was JUST God, and in eternity future will be JUST God again! A treasure, in the midst of such horrible fiery trials, that has kept me through the many floods and waters of tribulation my life has endured. And through it all I cannot say whether or not I have always been a Christian, but I do know one thing, that the Lord has always known ME.
I have been influenced by many others who have also come away from all the systems of man unto the Lord. But the main ones are Ray Prinzing, J. Preston Eby, Ross McKay, Terry Crisp, Dave Garner, Stacy Wood Jr and the list goes on. However, when I came out, it was in late 1979, the Lord set me as it were on the backside of the desert. It wasn't until 1987 that I had any sideways fellowship with men.
God said to me, and to those who I know to be overcomers, the very same thing. It is this verse:
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
The Lord stressed for us to COME OUT from among them. Who was the them? It was they who held the truth in unrighteousness. Those of the church systems, the denominations who are working against the truth rather than IN or FOR the truth. Denominational Christianity. The Lord says to His overcomers that He will deliver them from the three realms of Babylon, Religious, Political and eventually Economic. The Lord strictly forbade me in 1979 to never be a part of a denominational circle. That does not mean that God is not working there, but for me, it was not MY place. My place was as He said to me back then "to be joined unto them of like precious faith". The Lord in this verse above says that it is an "unclean" thing. Why? Because they have a distorted view of Christ. They view Christ, and God for that matter, as ogres. A god who is so defeated and surprised by Adam's disobedience that He tried to battle back with a plan of redemption that hopefully most of humanity will receive, and therefore not be in eternal torment. That man's puny will is greater than God because God is a "gentleman" who won't go against a person's will. So the thought is that maybe, if God is really good at it, get 20% of humanity to believe in Jesus. The rest the devil will win. And they also see Christ's atonement as something that had to be because God was mad at us. And God, because He was mad, had to hatch out of desperation this plan of salvation. The world cannot be held anymore or controlled anymore by God, but an "antichrist" will one day rise up and usurp God's creation to his own wicked ways and will cause mankind to fall into a mark to be received. So then they invented the "rapture" doctrine so the church can get out of here. The word "rapture" isn't even in the scripture, neither is there any verse, not even 1 Thess 4 that comes close to the theory that has been invented by this babylonish church system called "unclean" by the Lord in this verse. And on top of that Rob, Jesus prayed:
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Now how is it that there are now 65000 Christian denominations, one who believes this way, and one who believes that way. A poor peasant who comes to Christ for salvation immediately gets pounced on by denominationalism and for the rest of that peasant’s life he is serving some god in front of an altar somewhere trying to appease God's wrath. Does the factions of 65000 denominations do ANYTHING to help the world believe that God sent Christ as this scripture indicates? The Lord alone has to be our structure, not a system, or a group.
What is it that makes us relate to heaven as a "geographical location?" It is a "realm of spirit, just as hell and the lake of fire are realms of spirit." No one is exempt from coming into His life Rob, whether in hell or heaven! There is NO PLACE where GOD IS NOT. NO SUCH THING.
Yes, I am saying all will be saved, NO ONE LOST.
Take a look at Jesus. Look at what happened when He died.
There were THREE THINGS that His spirit did when His body died on the cross and His spirit came out of His body.
1) He went forth and rends the veil of the temple from top to bottom along with an earthquake. Matt 27:51 Why did He rent the veil? Denominations say it was so we could have free access now to the Holy of Holies and therefore - God. NOPE! It is SO GOD HAS FREE ACCESS TO US. JESUS BROKE DOWN THE BARRIERS THAT PREVENTED GOD FROM BECOMING ONE WITH HIS CREATURES.
2) He resurrected those that were in their graves around Jerusalem. Matt 27:52. That is why Joseph gave commandment concerning his bones to be carried out of Egypt when the Lord would visit the children of Israel and deliver them into their own land; he obviously had a vision of RESURRECTION. It is entirely probable that Joseph was one of those Christ raised from the dead.
3) Jesus went into the lowest hell and preached to the spirits in prison. 1 Peter 3:18,19. Those spirits were as the scripture states here, the spirits of dead people who died in Noah's flood. But I also have cause to believe that they were also of all those who lived ungodly after them, and even those BEFORE the flood. And why did Christ go preach to them if they are destined to eternal torment? Just to gloat over them and to make their torment WORSE? No, God gave them an answer of peace. I know that Christ emptied that hell. The Clouds that received Christ when He ascended into heaven was the spirits of those that he brought forth out of hell, all of them, not one lost. Psalm 68:18 and Eph 4:8.
So if you want to be angry with me for seeing that the atonement of Christ was not only precious, but perfect for ALL, and that God will save ALL and that God will be ALL IN ALL, then so be it. But I cannot deny that the Lord is the savior of all men, especially those that believe.
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
About Romans 10:9,10. What says the verse IN context? It says that with our mouth we must confess Him and His salvation. But to balance that, we must also look at what Jesus said in John 6:44 that no one can come to Him except that the Father draws them. So if they are not drawn, THEY CAN'T COME. And on the other hand, if God IS drawing them, THEY CAN'T NOT COME! And this confession of mouth, yes, it is a mouth that does it, but it is not according to the beating of the heart and the breathing of the lungs that this confession is. But it is according to EACH MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER 1 Cor 15:23. If a person in this life IS NOT DRAWN BY GOD to come to Christ, then we have to draw a conclusion. And that conclusion is that God knows those who WILL be saved in this world and those who WILL NOT be saved in this world. But He has ordained in the next that ALL WILL BE SAVED.
If what I am saying is true, then fine. But if what I am saying cannot be, then why, did Christ preach to the spirits in prison in 1 Peter 3:19? They didn't have living flesh mouths to confess Him, nor living beating hearts to believe on His name. But they were preached to - in person - by the LIVING CHRIST.
I LOVE the story of Christ preaching to the spirits in hell Rob. It makes this verse much more clear.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (These are the guys He sprung out of hell when he descended!)
Eph 4:9 Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 1Peter 3:18, 19
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
So guess what, Christ fills all things! He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. He went to the Lowest hell, making his bed there, being numbered with the transgressors. Then He also ascended to the highest heaven! And He fills all things in between, including our daily trials and testings.
Now on to John 3:16. Here it is quoted.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Did you know that this verse had three words added to it by the translators? In the original context, this verse does not read this way. The three words that were NOT there are
"not perish, but". So let's read it again, as it was originally said by the Lord.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should have everlasting life.
Ok, let's qualify this. The term "whosoever" comes from the Greek word "pas". "Pas" was also used in the King James bible for "many" and "all". And what does "pas" mean? It means,
ALL MANKIND INCLUSIVE, NONE EXEMPT!
Just read that again, with that verse put in total perspective!
FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT ALL MANKIND INCLUSIVE, NONE EXEMPT, BELIEVING IN HIM SHOULD HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. I invite you to get out the concordance and study this out.
If what I am saying is true, then we fall on our knees, and for the first time in great and glorious admiration, we call upon our Savior, seeing Him upon the tree, through the tomb, and resurrected AS TOTALLY SUCCESSFUL AND COMPLETING WHAT GOD SENT HIM TO DO.
1Co 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
The end will come when Christ will deliver up the Kingdom to God. According to modern Christendom, Christ will say "Here is the work completed that you sent me to do Father, here is 20% (I'm being far too generous) of humanity!"
NO WAY. When Christ delivers up this Kingdom to God, IT WILL BE COMPLETE.
. What I want to see is you strip down and gird up your loins, and then RUN. Run like you have never run in your life. Every waking moment your mind and heart totally enthralled and taken absolutely in captive slavery to our Lord who will reveal to you the magnitude of what He accomplished on Calvary. That you would run this race to be an overcomer, so you can rule and reign with Christ over all the nations of earth, TO SET ALL CREATION FREE.
So you never knew that Christ went to hell? Guess what? According to Ezekiel, Sodom and Gomorrah will be restored to their former estate! Why? So they can commit abominations again? NOPE. So they can serve God in the NEW COVENANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ezekiel 16:55. Oh I tell you, there is NOT ONE SOUL, NOT ONE, that will not eventually come to enjoy the fullness of Christ's full and complete salvation!
You say that in the end people will come to Christ in droves. But I say NO! They WILL NOT COME TO CHRIST IN DROVES!
Why? Because GOD HIMSELF IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME TO HIM IN DROVES. INSTEAD, HE IS GOING TO VISIT THIS EARTH AND ENVELOP THIS EARTH IN THE FULLNESS OF HIS OWN PERSON. GOD WILL BRING ALL MANKIND UP INTO HIMSELF! No coming to Him, HE WILL COME TO US!
Further to this, I want to explain something. In the scripture there are several examples of Tabernacles by which God would house Himself with us. We had Moses Tabernacle, then David's (just wait till I tell you about David's tabernacle that is fallen down, that will get you running so fast to win this race to win Christ as prize that you won't be able to stop!). Then we have Solomon's, then we have the ark being stolen and lost during the time of the reign of the Maccabes, then we have the temple Jesus saw which He said would be torn down, and it was. Then we have Paul's picture of the body of Christ, but the one I want to talk to you about (besides David's tabernacle), is the one seen in heaven in the book of Revelation.
Now to see that one, you must understand that John the Revelator saw something. It is written here for all to read and to see.
John sees the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven as a bride adorned for her husband.
And then, with his eyes wide open in amazement, he says something that has me absolutely consumed now for these past 24 years.
He says, for the first time in all the written word, when viewing the New Jerusalem. He says; "And I saw NO TEMPLE THEREIN, for the Glory of God and the Lamb are the Temple of it!" This is incredible. God is THE LAST AND FINAL TEMPLE.
All through time up until Christ Israel tithed to pay for a temple, then all through the age of denominations and the so called church age, Christians built huge edifices, some, like in Portugal, took 600 years to build. But this one was and is GOD. No, people will not come to Christ in droves. GOD AS THE FINAL TEMPLE WILL CONSUME ALL HIS CREATION BACK INTO HIMSELF.
There is nothing in the sky but air. And that is what 1 Thess 4:17 states. That the trump of God will sound and those that are dead shall rise first, then we who are alive will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air, so shall we ever be with the Lord. The air, the place wherein are the principalities and powers, the spirits of wickedness in high places, over which Christ is LORD. There, we are caught up, in a spiritual rapture (not physical), wherein we, being filled with the fullness of God receive glorified bodies and all this is done HERE, ON THE EARTH. Not a physical catching away, but ascension of coming from that which is natural to that which is spiritual. The state wherein we can NO LONGER DIE. Because we at that point receive the fullness of our inheritance, a glorified body. air = pneuma = spirit.
There is NO realm outside of God, the lake of fire is just as much in the full participation of God as is the Throne Room of God itself. All is done IN God. When the Old Testament prophets described God, they saw a fire enfolding Him, and going before Him a fire and dark tempestuous clouds. That the day of God was a day of darkness and of much spiritual activity. Just like the army of God in Joel chapter 2, before them the land is as Eden,
Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land [is] as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
The fire of God devours before this overcoming company, behind them the flame burns, but why is the land as the garden of Eden before them and behind them a desolate wilderness? Because the garden of Eden was where THE FALL TOOK PLACE, and right back to that point does this army march, consuming ALL THAT IS OF THE FALL. Behind them everything is desolate because, THEY TOUCH AND CONSUME ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT WAS A PART OF THE FALL. NOTHING escapes them.
So then, it is not a geographical or time element that controls the lake of fire, it is the fullness of God in complete deliverance that does. And it is not the extent of man's sin that places man there; it is the hand of God that separates that man FROM his sin that makes that lake so magnificent. AND NO ONE IS EXEMPT.
Fellowship? Well, the Lord told me one word in September of 1979 when I was aiming at becoming a denominational minister. I was driving in my Toyota car when I heard what my Father said to me. Do you know what it was? QUIT. Just like that.
And I did, obeying, going out like Abraham of old I suppose, not knowing where I was going. But the Lord did, and He joined me to those of "like precious faith". I have not much 'local' sideways fellowship, but do have lots on email or on Windows Messenger email@example.com .
I spoke the truth when I said that Christ will fail no one, not one person, not your relations, no one will be out of God's range of Love. That love is INFINITE.
Don't be upset by world events and Iraq etc. The Lord is doing this entire thing. He is allowing the whole of the world to get drawn into this, and I do believe personally that the Lord wants Iraq to be dealt with as HE sees fit, not as man thinks. It seems to me that when the ungodly rule, the people perish, but when the righteous rule, the land flourishes. My personal thoughts don't matter, but what I see is that God is doing a work here that we need not worry about. The earth is the Lord's the nations and they that dwell therein. Praise His name.
Believe me, I have heard all the traditional scripture references that denominations use to refute UR, and none of them hold water. May I ask you a question? Where did Jesus, or any disciple in the New Testament who's writing has been included in the canon of scripture, ever say that we were to "warn as many people as possible"? Can you find that in the New Testament? We are told by the risen and Glorified Christ to go forth and "preach" this gospel (good word) to EVERY creature. But where does it say we are to work tirelessly in warning everyone? Paul said in Colossians just one verse, in the entire New Testament about warning people. Here is what he said:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Now let me ask you, if we obey Col 1:28, and warn every man, what is the end result? PRESENT E-V-E-R-Y MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS. Where does it say that the blood of the guilty is on our hands and heads according to the new creation order that Christ has now made by being raised from the dead? What is the 'hell' message? It is a message of doom and wrath that is never ending that will not ever find mercy or favour with God. God is mad, that is the hell message. No. God is NOT mad.
How does God deal with us? What does He do? He in mercy - contradicts - what we think is truth. The very spirit of truth comes to us and gives us a DOUBT about what we think is 'truth'. That doubt is in fact the spirit of truth. And that truth will surely contradict all of Christendom’s present doctrines!
If Christ finished the work (He said "It is finished"), then does that include the salvation of humanity? What was finished at the cross? The atonement for humanity. Then Christendom jumps in with the thought that man has to 'choose', using verses like Romans 10:9,10 etc to prove that we have a choice. But Jesus said that we don't have a choice, that no man can come to Him (for salvation) EXCEPT the Father draws him. We are servants to whom we choose to obey Rom 6:16. There are lots of verses in the New Testament that talk about fiery vengeance upon those who choose to disobey the gospel. Is that hell fire separation from God? Or is it correction?
Let me ask you about one verse out of the book of Proverbs.
Pro 11:1 A false balance [is] abomination to the LORD: but a just weight [is] his delight.
Now if we look at this, we can see it is talking about scales, like you'd find in a vegetable or fruit market. If they are false, it is said to be an abomination to the Lord because the consumer would be getting robbed. In the same way Mark, would a man, who lives 70 years as a sinner, have a 'just' balance if he spends eternity in the agonies of torment and separation from God who is love in the lake of fire with no hope of it ever ending? Would God then be guilty of a false balance? If you look at Proverbs 16:11 you can see that all the weights and balances belong to the Lord. In other words, God controls the interplay of good and evil and the circumstances that affect each human life.
As for God giving His children a bit of a kick to get the message out. If a child is called to do so, and is not doing so, God knows how to work on them so they DO get out and do that which is according to His will. But understand, the responsibility for the salvation of mankind is not ours. It never has been, never will be. We are told to preach the gospel to every creature, which some call the great commission. If you read my article at our site on that, you will see that Christ saying that is the GUARANTEE that it WILL happen! It is HIS work, NOT ours and it is HIS enablement, not ours that will cause this work to be completed.
I for one cannot accept the eternal torment, Christless eternity, eternal separation from God mentality that has Christendom running around in ruthless insanity. When I read the word of God, I cannot find God being mad at anyone. In fact, God was the one that ORDERED Adam to fall into sin! God created that tree that Adam was not to partake of, so that Adam WOULD partake of it, so that creation WOULD come into the bondage of decay! That was all part of God's WILL! No one else is responsible. God was NOT surprised, everything that happened - happened according to HIS PERFECT WILL. God thrust creation into this death and decay so He could show forth in total Glory His INFINITE LOVE. There is no such thing as the eternal hell doctrines that Christendom promotes nowadays.
I have some Gleanings up by a ministry who has been a boon to many in the body of Christ. If you go to Roger Tutt's site http://www.angelfire.com/on4/hope and click on the "Gleanings" link, it will open a window on the right that shows forth excerpts from the cassette teaching ministry or Ray Prinzing. There are numbers there, you click on each number, and it will go to that section of the tape. There is sound wisdom in those gleanings. I don't have them all up there yet, still working on it as I am a very busy man with all my Internet work, but there is about 75% of them up there, parts in the center still undone. I will get them up as soon as I can, but if you take time to read some of these things on Roger's site, you will be blessed and it will teach you with light that is bright and beautiful.
His site is at http://www.angelfire.com/on4/hope/ Also, the writing I wrote on the Great Commission is at The Visscher Family Homepage at http://www3.telus.net/wc/greatcommission.html
There is another good article on "It Is Finished" at Ross and Sue McKay's site at http://www.ocis.net/~rmckay and the article in particular is at http://ocis.net/~rmckay/Accordingto.htm although that site has many other excellent writings.
As for me, I am only a brain injured man, both front lobes of my brain were destroyed many years ago, but God chooses the foolish and the base to confound the wisdom of this world. Not that the wisdom of this world is bad, but just so no one can glory in their own abilities. The Lord has blessed me with many talents also, and to Him belongs all the glory.
This is not a 'works' mentality we need; there is a simple realm of faith in His finished work. That faith in His finished work will do far more in our witnessing than any efforts we do, whether it be religious or otherwise. The entire crux of what God is doing is very simple. He is removing "religious effort" from us. By "us”, I mean those who are yielding to His inworkings. If you read Revelation 13, you will see a depiction of 2 beasts. A wild beast and a lesser beast. Both are the same beast. They are very simple to understand if you see them in the light of His glory. The beast is the adamic nature, the wild one being that nature in mankind in its fallen adamic state, and the lesser one being the adamic nature in its "religiosity". Both of them are depicting untempered and unkempt walks which are without God's discretion. When we think we have to do a "work" for God, we deceive ourselves, because God's work is done "potentially" and is being worked out by God perfectly by His hand alone. Otherwise, it's just religious effort on our part. (I think I already told you that we already have the mark 666 embrazened upon us, if not, ask me again, for you and I both have it). What God is doing is removing effort from us. That is the entire process of His fire. That is why it is best to submit to His workings. To do so is a confession before God that you are (1), believing that His work IS finished (potentially), and (2) that you are allowing that work to now be completed in you as He sees fit. The final outcome of allowing God to do such a thing is the free course of His life through you to creation.
The whole thing is NOT winning souls. That is DONE. Jesus DID THAT. He left the ninety and nine and found the one that was lost. The creation is still groaning, under the weight of Adam's fall. The entire process of becoming an overcomer is to remove from off of it the process and fruit of that fall. It is not that we need the mentality of getting "souls" for God said:
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Now if all souls are His, what are we worried about? Look at this verse I just quoted. This is the chapter that explains about 'bearing iniquity (self will)" God here states that all souls are HIS. However, the soul that sinneth, it shall die. What soul sinned? EVERYBODY'S. Who died? EVERYBODY. But who owns all souls? GOD! The problem modern Christianity is having is that they think we have to work to get the lost in. How can we work to get the lost in for salvation when Jesus finished that work?
Look at what we term, "the Great Commission".
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Is the responsibility for them believing or not believing ON US? No, it's not. He that believes not shall be damned. Greek "To judge against, pass sentence". What gets damned? Answer, their UNBELIEF. Anything God judges does not get separated from God, it gets separated TO God. The thing thus judged, has whatever it was that prevented it from coming forth into life removed from it. Thus God is free to once again be one with His creature. This great commission is a guarantee that all shall be done because CHRIST SAID SO. In other words, He will be the enablement for it.
As for whether or not I or you is an overcomer, that's a simple answer. Are you enduring each trial every day? Do you see God controlling the interplay of good and evil in your life every day? That is the way of the overcomer. They are not bringing forth some sort of sparkling glory cloud, they are living in the nitty gritty of every day life, paying bills, cleaning house, working at a job, all of that to accomplish their lives in this world. We overcome when we yield to God and come through a trial.
The benefit of accepting Christ here and now is that life becomes more of a reward. Everyone has pressures (trials), but to accept Him now, gives us the faith that we go through them because of His enablement. God is not going to deliver us OUT of our testings. He gives us the grace we need to go THROUGH them and to overcome in them. That is why we accept Christ now and therefore have spiritual benefit.
What needs to happen is that we need to realize that it is not a question of whether or not a person is in or outside of God. What needs to happen is that we rest in the fact that Christ's atonement was sufficient, and God's ability enough to draw all men.
Such belief will separate you from what you thought in the past was truth. And some of those you once fellowshipped with will reject you for it, but that's ok. The bed just got shorter, and the blanket too small for you to abide therein any longer. Nothing against those who will not accept what you now see as truth, just that you need to go in another direction. They too will come to the knowledge of truth in time also. You go on in God, ask Him about these things, and don't be afraid to ask anymore questions, I will try my best to help.
There is nothing untrue or wrong with how you would share your time of witnessing with other people. There is no error that I can see about asking someone if they know where they would go if they died right now. That is not a problem. I have never said that people automatically go straight to 'heaven' neither said I that you need not witness for Christ. In fact, we are told that we are to pray for Kings and those in authority, then the rest of mankind for God has commanded that all be saved, however He wants us to pray for that.
The fact of the matter is that people do not go directly to heaven with a ticket of bypassing processings. No one is exempt from the fires of purging or processing. Not some sort of purgatory, BECAUSE purgatory denoted SEPARATION from God. There is NO SUCH SEPARATION from God in existence anywhere in God's universe, one cannot escape God.
What we need from the Lords is WISDOM and DISCERNMENT and the FEAR OF THE LORD. Some people need to have their lives rattled and shaken up, others can be gently drawn to the loving arms of our Savoir, either way, we need in our witnessing to SEE in discernment the heart of that person you are telling the gospel to.
But let me make one thing clear. This may floor you, so grab a hold of your socks, cause I am going to state this as truth. God is not at all interested in saving the masses of humanity at this time nor for the past 2000 years. That is not His purpose. Do you remember Old Simeon who held the baby Jesus in his arms in Luke ch 2? Well, that same old Simeon is quoted again in Acts 15:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
What we need to see here is that God 'visited' the gentiles first to take out from them a people for His name. This visitation of God is the consequence of the choosing He said to Jeremiah.
Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
God's whole purpose for this past 2000 years has not been to bring all humanity to salvation in Christ! His whole purpose is to draw OUT FROM HUMANITY those who He would call His "overcomers".
These overcomers are the people of God who are processed in the fires of His indignation and wrath, to have removed from them their adamic nature and to present them to Himself in Holiness FOR ONE PURPOSE. And that is to MANIFEST THEM TO CREATION TO SET CREATION FREE.
God is not after us to go witnessing. He is after us to have us YIELD OUR LIVES IN TOTAL ABANDONMENT TO GOD SO THAT HIS WILL CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IN US. We can witness till we are blue in the face, OR, we can allow God to bring us to the fullness of our inheritance in Him and then manifest us. When the Sons of God are manifested, ONE SINGLE SON at that time will do more in 5 minutes than all the clergy and laity of the past 2000 years has accomplished with their programs and their schemes to raise money and to promote their own kingdom building programs! The greatest goal in our lives should not be to 'witness' TO man, but to be a witness 'TO' GOD and His workings in us, yielding every moment to His hand upon us. For when His work is done, and we are glorified, all creation will have death taken away forever along with the Old nature and flesh! That is God's entire purpose at this time.
Note again the verse I pasted above from Acts.
He says that He will build again the tabernacle of David which is fallen down. What was the tabernacle of David? It was a little tent over the ark! That's it! Of all the tabernacles, this one was furthest away from the pattern given to Moses! Yet it is the one God refers to! Who is this tabernacle? It is the congregation of God's OVERCOMERS. Those who have conquered the image, mark and name of the beast, who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire Rev 15:2 who sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb, saying "
Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:”
So what is their song? It is the song of TOTAL REDEMPTION.
Just look again at Acts 15:17, "That the RESIDUE" of men might seek after the Lord". Why seek after the Lord if they won't find him and be saved?
God's entire purpose is to FINISH HIS WORK in His OVERCOMERS to present them to creation as DELIVERERS.
Look now at another section of scripture.
Oba 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be [any] remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken [it].
Oba 1:19 And [they of] the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and [they of] the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin [shall possess] Gilead.
Oba 1:20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel [shall possess] that of the Canaanites, [even] unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which [is] in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.
Oba 1:21 And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
Note that Obadiah stressed here the word "fire". Jacob, representing the sonship company of overcomers, is depicted as fire, and Joseph a flame (of that fire). Esau (unregenerate humanity) is stubble (for burning), and ALL of the house of Esau (all humanity) will be CONSUMED by the flame of Jacob/Joseph. NO ONE WILL BE LEFT UNBURNT BY THIS FIRE.
And that's not all; they "possess" the mount of Esau (Kingdom of flesh), the Philistines (enemies of the Lord), the fields of Ephraim (unfruitful labors) and Samaria (labors abroad that will not bear righteous works before God). Benjamin possesses Gilead. Benjamin (Son of My Right hand) possessed the HOPE OF GLORY! THE FLESH GETS BURNT!!!!!!
And what happens, SAVIOURS, those who have first been partakers of the fire, JUDGE the mount of ESAU. Why? To bring forth in it God's KINGDOM.
The work of the son company RIGHT now is yieldedness to Father's inworkings. Their work when Father is done will be TO SET CREATION FREE.
Christianity thinks that at this time we need to have big crusades and all kinds of programs to get the lost in to heaven. Jesus already took care of their salvation. And guess what ? It is NOT UP TO US to bring them to heaven! In fact, what Jesus said disannuls ANY effort on our part to save anyone! Jesus Himself said:
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you know what the Greek word for Draw was? It came from Strongs #138, which meant TO DRAG. Oh? So you mean that no one can COME TO CHRIST except F-A-T-H-E-R drags Him! NOT US, FATHER!
And what is the END RESULT of being DRAGGED to Christ by Father? Christ will RAISE HIM UP (RESURRECTION) AT THE LAST DAY! I ask you, WHO IS EXEMPT?
What do WE DO? We walk with the Lord, and that walk creates LIGHT which will draw (drag) men to God. Cause God works in this world to cause humanity to become frustrated with their life, and seek something more. Frustrated with both religion and efforts and the nitty gritty of every day living, and He then draws them to salvation. The means which Father may use may be us and our testimonies, but it is God all the way.
The ministers of God are flames of fire, We are the LAKE OF FIRE, the wicked are cast INTO US, and there the iniquity that held them is removed.
Imagine if you will a son of God manifested in a glorified body just like Jesus body is right now. They can do in 5 minutes that which 2000 years of churchianity has not been able to do. All humanity will be delivered from death, completely, forever, and from sin, the old man, the flesh when the sons are manifested.
For me Rob, I am not going to waste time trying to draw men to salvation, but I will fill my time worshipping the Lord while I stand upon the sea of glass (humanity in the fires of God) singing the new song of redemption for all mankind in high worship to Father who has FINISHED THIS WORK.
Praise His Name.
Isa 52:14 As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Anyone who goes to a bible school or college comes out in the same shape as their teachers. I am going to comment on the scripture above in just a few sentences, but first want to address my statement just made about being made in the same shape as our teachers.
Jos 8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up [any] iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
We are the stones of the altar, built to bear the weight of the sacrifice. NOTE. They were WHOLE STONES, upon which NO MAN has lifted any iron. God is after us JUST the very way He created us to be, not shaped by our education or influences, but shaped by His creative power to fit perfectly with the other stones to be a part of His purpose in showing forth His atonement.
Most of what I have to say undoes religious thinking. In other words, the facade of the mud and straw brick has to be chipped away from the whole living stone that was created by the Hand of God in the first place. What is happening to us is that we are being asked by God to lay down all our previous teachings, because what I share with you will not align with anything the churches state as truth. Well, that's not completely true, there may be elemental things. But not the entire thing for sure.
One of the things you must realize about denominational Christianity is it is a form of CONTROL. In fact, the way the bible was converted into the King James Version has many examples in it of CONTROL. The entire interpretation, based on natural thinking, will cause one to believe these erroneous doctrines of eternal torment, and angry God, man has to choose, tithing etc etc etc. All of these are part of the brick making plan of "Babylon" (confusion). What I am doing is setting you free of all that. Free to be that living stone that God created, hearing from God all on your own, being led by Him alone and knowing Him intimately on your own. So that even if you were abandoned on a far away island, isolated from the rest of humanity, your fellowship in God would not be one iota altered. My work as a son of God is to UNDO what damage has been done, to give you the true meat of His word, and allow you to be healed of your past influences. This healing you need must come WITHOUT you holding or harbouring any feelings of ill will towards those in any other church that held you to false doctrine.
Each of us sees the Lord in a little different light, perfect unity of SIGHT is still to come to all of us. That is why God has placed teachers in His body, to teach according to the dictates of His spirit that word which will set one free. I have listed on my site the websites that teach ultimate reconciliation of all things through Christ http://www3.telus.net/wc/salvation_links.html . However, certain side or peripheral doctrines we may not see the same on. That is just the way it is. That is what that verse means above. That one man may see Christ THIS way, another THAT way, surely His visage was marred, and still is marred, more than any man. So many differing views of the Christ. What I long for is a true vision, that is not tainted by the fall of Adam, or by my own carnal mind, or by my own understanding. But a vision of Christ, not just in me, but in all the rest of the whole stones that cannot be undone in all of us, because it is instilled in us by the Holy Spirit.
And that's not all, that we as Sons, would come forth in His image. Look at this verse.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
That term, in the original went this way. The Lord cometh IN HOLY MYRIADS OF HIMSELF. Just think of a carnival with a house of mirrors. You go in and see a gazillion images of yourself going on forever. That is what that verse means, because the nature and character of God in His sons and daughters are PERFECT, and the Lord appears in that very myriad!