Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:24:06 MST [Show full headers] 
Subject: [sharpen] Digest Number 558
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Message: 1
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:29:37 -0500
  From: "Raynard Merritt" <AFA1LQ@HOME.COM>
Subject: LongHair

LONG HAIR

"You know, Dad," 16-year-old Jimmy started. "I'm 16 now and I think it's
time that we talk about getting a car for me to drive."

"Well, I'll make a deal with you, Jimmy," his Dad replied. "We'll talk about
this car idea when you bring home a good report card and you get your hair cut."

A couple of months later, Jimmy brings home his report card.

"Here you go, Dad. All A's!"

"That's great, Jimmy," his Dad replied. "But you still haven't gotten your
hair cut."

"Well, Dad, while making those great grades, I was in a religion class
and noticed that Jesus had long hair, all of the Apostles had long hair.
Moses, Joseph and even the kings of the land all had long hair."

His Dad thought about this for a second and asked, "Did you notice what
else they had in common?"


"No, what?" Jimmy replied.

"They were all WALKING!"
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Message: 2
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:18:36 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: re: A Canadian's perception of US

There is the nice humanitarian side to this - and the real benefits that
some received.  But that's only the silver lining.
It's really the dark cloud of control.  One of the oldest tricks in the
book - as long as these countries "owe us" - guess who has the
  upper hand?
Part of the reason for Normandy - America didn't get much - or wasn't
"allowed" to get much out of W.W.I because, how much had America
really invested?  So W.W.II - after Normandy - we bought more control
of European sentiment through the blood of those brave young men.
They knew what the causalities would be going in (those in charge knew)
  and the end result was actually less than they expected.
Yes, there's the nice things Uncle Sam does.  And some reap the
  benefits.  But what is Uncle Sam really up to?
It's like the saying "our youth is the most valuable national resource."

Wake up and smell the coffee - it's still petroleum and don't you
forget it!  One more thing - good old Uncle Sam is the only country
on this planet to use Nuclear bombs on another country.  And there
was talk of doing it in Korea, too.  Eisenhower put a stop to that.
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Message: 3
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:43:50 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Care for new members...

> Here is your question:"What are you trying to do; what are you seeking?"
>
> Who is "grilling" who in all this correspondence?
>
>  NOT YOU BRO.


You got the same feeling, impression, whatever, that I got.
And that's what I gotta go by - my gut.
But in fact - it wasn't grizzly at all, but innocent.  But I did
not know that at all till later.  Have to go with my initial reaction.

Did you hear they recently discovered a brain in the stomach?
Yours and mine.
I heard this on NPR.  It was one of those quiz questions - which
are true?  And I knew this one wasn't - but it was!
Messages travel back and forth from the brain.  There is an
area in the stomach that SENDS ONLY to the brain.  So if your
gut is telling you something - it is in fact telling you something.
Don't know what it's called.....
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Message: 4
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:51:23 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: 515

that's true, but when it comes to money, st was rather shrewd.  i'm sure
it's somewhere on a public roll.  thanks.  by the way, how do you like it
out of the city?    love,  ellen

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Message: 5
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:19:27 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: PLEASE WELCOME

hi, marva!  this is ellen king.  i remember you.  how are you doing?
welive in the very cold north now--Watertown, NY, and have 5 kids.
elijah and joe are all grown and engaged.  i met both sets of in'laws
over Christmas---it was scary, but we liked each other.  where are you?
write when you can.  love,   ellen
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Message: 6
  Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:58:46 -0000
  From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject:


From:  Owen
     Dear Folks
    I thought this was hilarious.  (From RFs rapture website:
A collection of Numbers of the Beast
 

666             Number of the beast
668             Neighbor of the beast
660             Approximate Number of the Beast
DCLXVI          Roman Numeral of the Beast
666.0000        Number of the High Precision Beast
0.666           Number of the Millibeast
1/666           Common Denominator of the Beast
666[-/(-1)]     Imaginary number of the Beast
1010011010      Binary Number of the Beast
29A             Hexidecimal Number of the Beast
-666            Negative Number of the Beast
00666           Zip code of the Beast
$665.95         Retail Price of the Beast
$699.25         Price of the Beast Plus 5% State Sales Tax
$769.95         Price of the Beast with all Accessories and Replacements
$656.66         Wal-Mart Price of the Beast
$646.66         Next week's Wal-Mart Price of the Beast
$333.00         After Christmas sale Price of the Beast
$222.00         Going Out Business Liquidation Price of the Beast
Phillips 666    Gasoline of the Beast
Route 666       Way of the Beast
665             Older Brother of the Beast
667             Younger Brother of the Beast
6-6-6           Fertilizer of the Beast  
666 UP          Soft Drink of the Beast
666lb cap       Weight Limit of the Beast
666 F           Oven Temperature for Cooking Roast "Beast"
666k            Retirement Plan of the Beast
666 mg          Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
6.66%           5 Year CD Rate at First Bank of the Beast, $666 Minimum
Deposit
1-800-666-6666  Toll Free Number of the Beast  
Lotus 6-6-6     Spreadsheet of the Beast
Word 6.66       Word Processor of the Beast
i66686          CPU of the Beast
666i            BMW of the Beast
666-66-6666     Social Security Number of the Beast
6/6/66          Birth Date of the Beast
666.AC.com      URL of the Beast    
IAM 666         License Plate Number of the Beast
Formula 666     All Purpose Cleaner of the Beast
WD-666          Spray Lubricant of the Beast  
66.6 MHz        FM Radio Station of the Beast
666 KHz         AM Radio Station of the Beast
Chanel No. 666  The Beast's Favorite Perfume
666%            What the Beast Gives in His Game
Colt 666        Revolver or Beer of the Beast

I wouldn't totally rule out any other meaning to the appearance of the number 666. For example, I happen to receive word that a Halloween lottery pick-3 drawing turned up 666 as the winning number. We may have to allow for the occasional sovereignty of God in his attempt to warn folks of the evils of this world - in this case gambling and Halloween. If there's a wayward Christian at a conve-nience store buying a dirty magazine or a bottle of booze and the register rings up $6.66, I couldn't think of a better number for God to use to get that person's attention.Now on the other hand, the next time you receive your water bill and upon opening it, you discover it comes to $6.66 or you realize you've used 666 cubic feet of water - don't go pulling your hair out. Unless it has a direct connection to the Antichrist or is some special message from God, Six hundred three score and six is just another number that randomly comes up.A family tree is worth bragging about only if it produces good  timber and not just nuts.       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net  
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Message: 7
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:44:14 -0000
  From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Jesse Jackson

CINDY: What makes one think that Jesse Jackson is not among the saved?
From:  Owen
     Dear All
    That's a fair question and I intend to answer it fully, fairly, and logically.  First an outline:
1)Absence of profession
2)Hypocrisy
2a)His job
3)Lies
4)Selling out
5)My perception of his attitude
6)Caveats
1        Has he ever claimed to be born again?  Does he exhort his flocks to repent and be saved?
2        Jesse Jackson (JJ) makes his living and reputation denouncing racism.  Yet he associates with horrible racists like Louis Farrakhan (who is famous for claiming that "the white man is the devil") and Al Sharpton (who is famous for burning down the Harlem store of a Jewish businessman).  He has never denounced racism when committed by blacks.  He has never denounced apartheid when committed by Communists.  He has never denounced atrocities in Africa (i.e. Sudan) when committed by blacks.  Though he complained loudly about the mistreatment of blacks in So Africa, he is noticeably silent about the (far worse) mistreatment of Christians in China.    Ask yourself:  If Bush was pals with David Duke & William Pierce would you say "Oh he's a fine Christian, he's just into white pride".
2a        As chairman of Operation Push (what a name) he calls up Wall street firms and threatens them with boycotts or hassles unless they contribute to his organization.  The proper name for this is extortion, and that is not how a Christian makes his living.
3        Last month he went down to Florida and claimed that "blacks were kept from the polling places in Broward, Dade, and Palm Beach counties" and blamed the Republicans.  The truth is that these three counties are run by Democrats, and that the black turnout in Fl was very high.
4        During the 70s JJ spoke against abortion.  Yet when he ran for the Democratic nomination for President he was fully pro-abortion.  And he still is.  While blacks are about as conservative or liberal as whites are, JJ and the civil rights establishment are totally in sync with the far left wing of the Democratic party.  [While __% of blacks oppose abortion NONE of the black Democratic congressmen are.]  It's as if he/they are more concerned with getting blacks to vote Democrat than he is with other issues.
5        This is subjective but this is the real answer to Cindy's question.  He is like "the boy who cried wolf".  To him every problem is caused by racism, and solved by a govt program.  [I believe he even called the school vouchers concept racist.]  For instance he called the death penalty racist because more blacks are on death row than whites; and he wanted to have a judicial review of sentencing.  This is nonsense because each criminal is convicted and sentenced individually.  There's no mass trial.          And he calls those who disagree with him racists.        A year or two ago 3 busload of black folk stopped at a Denny's restaurant rather late on a Sunday night.  There were only 2 employees working there and they knew it would take a long time to serve everyone.  So they suggested that 2 of the busses drive to the next Denny's a few miles away.  Well the folks decided that these employees were being racist and decided to stay until they were served.  Which took an hour or two.  Then they contacted ___ and made a stink about Denny's being racist.  And by the time conservative talk show hosts started to mount an effective defense of Denny's, Denny's had caved.  [I have a theory about why they caved.]
6        Some of the last paragraph is true about the civil rights establishment in general and may be technically untrue about JJ himself.  But as the godfather of the civil rights mafia he represents them, he takes credit or blame with them AND he partakes in their activities.    Now some might claim that JJ never criticizes a black because he's concerned with solidarity.  1)then what about Clarence Thomas? (where was solidarity then?) and 2)then how can he claim to want integration and equality?  If he wants to be treated as an equal he must act like one.  Whites don't defend Jeff Dahmer because of his skin color, so JJ ought not to defend crooks because of theirs.

A family tree is worth bragging about only if it produces good  timber and not just nuts.
    Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net 
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Message: 8
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:30:22 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Care for new members...

grizzly or grisly?

what are you guys talking about anyway?  sometimes not being on the web
has definite drawbacks.  oh, well :(    ellen

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Message: 9
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:27:39 -0800 (PST)
  From: Mike Montoya <mikemontoya2@excite.com>
Subject: Which one do we use?

Seems like the lists are becoming more the same. There also seems to be no
advantage either way in using one or the other. So shall we just use the
sharpen?

MM
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Message: 10
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:39:52 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: racism 202

Owen (and all),
You lose.
You talked about racism ramifications.
You lose.
I'm just saying - here, on the list, should be a somewhat safe haven.
Even if I or others don't agree - we can appreciate your methodical
  thinking.  But don't do this in public.
  You lose.
Where I work is predominantly black.  And I had a black girl
friend for five years.  I still take her and her daughter out to eat
on saturdays and after her piano lesson. (she's seven)
It is virtually always "uneventful."  But there were times in West
Philly,
- I think black people are more prejudiced than white people - or
maybe they're just more open and honest.  But largely, there is no
problem at all.  Things is, people don't wear big buttons announcing
  "I'm a racist bigot."  You have to find out the hard way.
It's the few that make it tough.  But then there's things that start to
take on a life all their own - like, the Towanda Brawly (sp) case and
similar stuff.  Yes, there's a lot of sensationalism.  But you don't
know  what it's like.  You and I can't know.  You can only guess.
We've come a long way, baby, but still have a long way to go.
And like the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland - (and name
whatever prejudices there are around the world - each place has their "pet" one)
these things just don't like to go away.  Nothing makes a race feel
better than putting another one down.  And then like the Hatfields
and the McCoys - you forget what the fight's about - - it's that they're
a Hatfield, that's why - and we just hate 'em!
Here in the US we have many emotional issues.
  And we're still the best country in the world.

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Message: 11
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:54:16 -0500
  From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Jesse Jackson

Brother Owen,
Strong statements.
Well thought out.
I've been searching the net for sermons by Jesse given at churches but haven't found any yet, except for a mention that he gave a great one in Texas.
I still stand by my recollection of his sidestepping a direct question regarding whether he was born again that a caller asked him on a TV show he was on.
I'm also going to post some info I found from interviews of friends of his.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 12
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:21:19 -0500
  From: "Raynard Merritt" <AFA1LQ@HOME.COM>
Subject: Presidential Election

Once upon a time, long, long ago there was a
Presidential Election that
was too close to call. Neither the Republican presidential
candidate, nor the Democratic presidential candidate had
enough votes to win the election.

Therefore, it was decided that there should be an ice
fishing contest between the two candidates to determine
the final winner. There was much talk about ballot
recounting, court challenges, etc., but a week-long
ice-fishing competition seemed the fairest way to settle
things. The candidate who catches the most fish at the
end of the week wins.

After a lot of back and forth discussion, it was decided
that the contest would take place on a remote and cold
lake in Minnesota. There were to be no observers present
since both men were to be sent out on this remote lake
and return daily with their catch for counting and
verification.

At the end of the first day, George W. Bush returns to the
starting line and he has 10 fish. Soon, Al Gore returns
and has zero fish. Well, everyone assumes Al is just
having another bad hair day or something and hopefully
he will catch up the next day.

At the end of the 2nd date George W. comes in with 20
fish and Al Gore comes in again with none. That evening,
Bill Clinton gets together secretly with Al Gore and says;
"Al, I think George W. is a lowlife cheatin' son-of-a-gun.
I'm a gonna dress this good ole' Southern Boy, James
Carville, as a jackass (now some folks say this wouldn't
be too hard to do) and send him out on the lake to act as
a spy."

The next night (after George W. comes back with 50 fish
and Al Gore with none), Bill gets Carville and Al Gore
together and says to Carville:

"Well, what about it boy, is George W. cheatin'?"
"He sure is, Bill, he's cuttin' holes in the ice
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Message: 13
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:39:29 -0500
  From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: re: great sight

Sister Carol,
Here are some of the "more interesting" ideas presented by this 'angelic connection' site. Sounds like Mormon stuff. Definitely not from the Word of God. I think we have a Joseph Smith clone if not Smith himself.
What do you think brother Ed or Owen?

"Every soul on the planet descended from
heaven.When God created the heavens and
the earth, He wanted companionship.
That was when I was created. God
created me a little less than Himself
so that I might understand both the
things of heaven and what was to be
brought forth on your earth. Then
there was the Holy spirit created.
When you have lost sight of Christ
within you, the Holy Spirit is to teach
you the things you knew and have
forgotten.
Anything that separates you from recognizing
and acknowledging the Christ that
dwells in each one of you is sin
God is with you always whether you acknowledge
Him or not. The Christ Spirit dwells
in every one of you. Sometimes it is
so buried you cannot recognize it.
This is sin. One of the rules of living
that was given is that each person is
responsible for only their own sin,
nobody else's. You are all lights
waiting to be born. I am with you
always. Jesus The Christ."

Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 14
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:56:27 EST
  From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jesse Jackson

In a message dated 1/29/2001 8:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dococ@surferz.net writes:


> CINDY: What makes one think that Jesse Jackson is not among the saved?
> From:  Owen
>         Dear All
>        That's a fair question and I intend to answer it fully, fairly, and
> logically.  First an outline:
> 1)Absence of profession
> 2)Hypocrisy
> 2a)His job
> 3)Lies
> 4)Selling out
> 5)My perception of his attitude
> 6)Caveats, etc, etc......


Thank you. You answered in true COBU fashion.  I still say, to judge is to be
judged.  Now I retire from this topic.  Good day Sir.
Cindy
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Message: 15
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:29:12 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

> grizzly or grisly?
>
> what are you guys talking about anyway?  sometimes not being on the web
> has definite drawbacks.  oh, well :(    ellen


Not talking about much at all...
The word I had written - or the way my fingers went on the
keyboard - the spell check offered a few words - and the
one closest to what I wanted  was their offering of 'grizzly'
so I went with it.  I rarely do that.  I like to put in my own
word - but this is what I did......
How's the brain in your stomach?

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Message: 16
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:57:24 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Jesse Jackson 

Yes, too much kicking a guy when he's down and dwelling on negative
talk just don't go over too well.  And when it comes to politics and
some things - people can go on ad nauseam espousing their side while turning
a deaf ear to the other side.  - Did I relate the story about my dad
at dinner the other night?  Last sunday my dad said it was the best he'd
felt in eight years.  He had just gone upstairs to the bathroom so I
asked if it was the horseradish?
And then we realized - oh, Clinton's out of office....
Before we had eaten he mentioned how Reagan had such a respect for the
office - he never took his jacket off.  (He probably never even knew he
had one on).  And then again, I said Reagan was the kind of guy who would
   wear a tux while digging ditches.
So anyway - my dad's glad a Rep is in office.  So my brother says that
the Clinton Presidency will go down in history as one of the best (we wanted
to get on his nerves) and I chimed in, "Yep, he went into that office,
took off his jacket, rolled up his sleeves and went to work."
If you don't like somebody - that's one thing - but to go on and on
about negative stuff - and especially from sources whose agenda is to keep
  piping that stuff in....
I think Jesse is misunderstood.  I know I find him hard to understand.
Pardon me if I don't try and judge - that is what I try and do.  But God
knows my heart - and it's hard not to judge everything.  I am well aware
- or somewhat aware "With the judgment I pronounce - will I be judged."
  So you can see a definite motivation for me to be liberal.
    And there's one of my secrets that I work at.

You shoulda heard the story last week about a black guy coming to a
school and speaking - and the unions protested these comments he said
and Dom had a whole afternoon of berating what this fellow said.
The next day they had the actual speaker on - and teachers who were
there at the assembly called in, and, well - the only people still
speaking against the guy was this small group - everyone else had a different
story.
  For instance - they said "people walked out on the guy."  The guy
    readily admitted some people walked out.
Then a teacher called to say, that as the guy was running late - some
teachers did have to leave for administrative purposes (it was something
like a job carnival day or something - and the students were going to
  go to other classes to hear different things...)  And the guy said,
    "I thought as much, as I did run over...."
It's who is looking from what angle.  Dom still didn't go hook, line,
and sinker for what the guy was saying - but it didn't seem as bad
  as first thought.  It depends on who's reporting the news.
   You knew that already, though, didn't you?
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Message: 17
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:18:11 -0500
  From: "tledonne" <tledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Jesse Jackson

Cindy,
I think that's a bit of a low blow.  Owen gave reasons for all his conclusions and I don't think it sounded COBU'ish.  You asked the question and he tried to answer it.  I don't know that Owen is judging him (are you, Owen?  Are you saying Jesse is bound for hell?) or if he is doubting.  Maybe you're judging that Owen has judged.  
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Message: 18
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:24:02 -0500
  From: "tledonne" <tledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Which one do we use?

Mike,
I thought we weren't going to be able to use Sharpen anymore and that's why
you were changing it.  I don't see any differences from here.  Either.  Lori
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Message: 19
  Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:59:15 -0500
  From: "Jacob Monty" <rumbubba@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Archives


Hey Tom and Ray...we ARE all on the new list. Use the new list. All of
Sharpen and some new/old members are on in some capacity. So please use
x-cobu

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Message: 20
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:24 -0500
  From: "Jacob Monty" <rumbubba@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Which one do we use?

I thought there was going to be a problem with the YAHOO take-over but there
isn't....everyone should just use sharpen....sorry...I panicked.

mm

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Message: 21
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:56:36 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

mine is still reeling from another's latest reply to my answers sent to
him privately over another issue.  felt all squiggly inside after reading
that post.  that has to be my stomach speaking directly to my brain which
responded in kind.  does that count?     e
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:37 MST [Show full headers] 
Subject: [x-cobu] Digest Number 3
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Message: 1
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:48:25 -0500
  From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: christian website

Thanks for the encouragement, Jim.

"But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him, on those whose hope
is in his unfailing love" Ps. 33:17).
Bob San Pascual
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Message: 2
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:02:07 -0500
  From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [sharpen] Care for new members./for Steve..

I've been the director of youth at my church for the past 7 years and
taught a college course last fall on discipling and mentoring youth. If
you would like me to email you some stuff on the subject, just let me
know.

"But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him, on those whose hope
is in his unfailing love" Ps. 33:17).
Bob San Pascual
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Message: 4
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:03:28 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: [sharpen] Care for new members./for Steve..

Gee Whiz,

That would be great, Bob...I have a house full of teenagers who desperately
need a ministry of love--These kids would come in the droves but I have no
where to put them...I recently got a warning from my landlord I would be
kicked out if they did not stop coming. They really were not doing any
harm, but because they are teenagers they are loud and rambunctious and
they seem like the first ones to get blamed when something goes wrong!
Thanks Bob
Sincerely
CK
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Message: 5
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:10:50 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Some Answers?

Dear Ed,
I am sorry, but I did not write the a fore mentioned quote:

I do not know who said those things. Wether he has a demon or not, one
cannot tell. But I believe he is a predator and needs to be locked up like
all the rest of the sexually molesters who violate the innocent and the
young. I was wondering if you or anyone else on this list knows of  any
sisters he may have molested that were under age.

CK
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Message: 6
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:56:11 -0500
  From: "richard farretta" <rng777@hotmail.com>
Subject: simple math

The best mathematical equation I have ever seen:
1 Cross
+ 3 Nails
4 given
That's the whole gospel message simply stated.
Take 60 seconds. Give this a shot! Let's just see if
> Satan stops this one. All you do is
1. Simply say a small prayer for the person who sent you
this (Father, God bless this person in whatever it is that
You know he or she may be needing this day!).
2. Then send it on to five other people.

Within hours five people have prayed for you, and you
caused a multitude of people to pray to God for other
people. Then sit back and watch the power of God work
in your life for doing the things that you know He loves.
When we get to heaven we will be able to know all the people who were blessed!
Please send it back to me so that I can also pray for you!!!
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Message: 8
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:58:48 -0500
  From: Cathy <cathy@ezonline.com>
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?


LOL, Hi, Rich - I'm OK at this end.  I had to create a Yahoo nickname and
password, though, to be able to access the Sharpen archives and newly
created X-Cobu archives.  I guess we'll lose the Sharpen archives
eventually as it's phased out?

Cathy B.
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Message: 9
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:25:59 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Some Answers?

hi:  i never got the beginning of this conversation.  would someone
re-send it to me?  thanks.  ellen
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Message: 10
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:24:29 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Free Internet Service

me too.  this is ellen.  if it's wonderful enough, maybe john will let us
get on the internet here at home.  for an electronics technician he can
be a real stick-in-the-mud.  can't help but love him though.  E
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Message: 11
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:40:02 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: to all re: john's father

hello everyone:  i wanted to thank you all for praying for john's father
who has bone cancer.  he is actually improving!!!-----not something
anyone expected.  at this time, he still does not have a relationship
with Jesus though.  please pray for him still as the Lord has mercifully
given him more time.  he is particularly bound by the way he perceives
"religion" so pray that his heart will be prepared to really understand
the gospel message.  please pray for john too--he has the flu.  thanks
and i will keep you updated on john's father.  john told me that the
whole point of us being Christians was that we had Someone who could
handle impossible situations.  we have talked with john's father many
times in the past years  - and not in the old way at all--- but from our
hearts and naturally, but he would tell us what he believed--that
religion was a crutch, etc. and really seemed to have no understanding of
the real deal. when this happened, we were desperate before the Lord for
him.  i think i will remain there and let Jesus do what He does
best---the impossible.  i am encouraged and thankful. please continue to
pray for him.  if he with full understanding rejects Jesus, that's one
thing, but i don't think he has ever reached the point of revelation so
keep it up.  thanks again. love,  ellen
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Message: 13
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:21:19 -0500
  From: "Raynard Merritt" <AFA1LQ@HOME.COM>
Subject: Presidential Election

Once upon a time, long, long ago there was a
Presidential Election that
was too close to call. Neither the Republican presidential
candidate, nor the Democratic presidential candidate had
enough votes to win the election.

Therefore, it was decided that there should be an ice
fishing contest between the two candidates to determine
the final winner. There was much talk about ballot
recounting, court challenges, etc., but a week-long
ice-fishing competition seemed the fairest way to settle
things. The candidate who catches the most fish at the
end of the week wins.

After a lot of back and forth discussion, it was decided
that the contest would take place on a remote and cold
lake in Minnesota. There were to be no observers present
since both men were to be sent out on this remote lake
and return daily with their catch for counting and
verification.

At the end of the first day, George W. Bush returns to the
starting line and he has 10 fish. Soon, Al Gore returns
and has zero fish. Well, everyone assumes Al is just
having another bad hair day or something and hopefully
he will catch up the next day.

At the end of the 2nd date George W. comes in with 20
fish and Al Gore comes in again with none. That evening,
Bill Clinton gets together secretly with Al Gore and says;
"Al, I think George W. is a lowlife cheatin' son-of-a-gun.
I'm a gonna dress this good ole' Southern Boy, James
Carville, as a jackass (now some folks say this wouldn't
be too hard to do) and send him out on the lake to act as
a spy."

The next night (after George W. comes back with 50 fish
and Al Gore with none), Bill gets Carville and Al Gore
together and says to Carville:

"Well, what about it boy, is George W. cheatin'?"
"He sure is, Bill, he's cuttin' holes in the ice

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Message: 14
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:42:51 -0500
  From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [sharpen] Care for new members...

Brother James(Yacov),
Yes I use a wheelchair. Your name sounds very familiar.
Greetings in Jesus to you.
Jog my memory bro : ).
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 16
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:46:39 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: to all re: john's father

Dear Ellen:

I will certainly pray for him
love
CK
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Message: 17
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:52:50 -0500
  From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: to all re: john's father

Sister Ellen,
Praise God for the encouraging report about John's father : ).
Will continue to pray for him.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 18
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:46:12 -0500
  From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sharpen] Matthew 10 as Final Christian Mission

Sister Felicia,
Well said-time to duck : ).
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 20
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:00:09 -0500
  From: "tledonne" <letochef@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: to all re: john's father

Ellen,
I will pray for John's dad.  Tony's dad used to say the same thing--religion
was a crutch.  Funny how some of these same people can lean on alcohol and
drugs, etc but religion is a crutch.  Not saying John's dad leans on
anything, but I know the attitude.  I'm glad he is improving and feel very
hopeful, Ellen.    Lori
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Message: 21
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:08:58 -0000
  From: Yacov Prasch <jacob@moriel.org>
Subject: RE: Fw: [sharpen] Care for new members...

Yes, I do indeed recollect you.


As I recall you live or lived in the Buffalo/Niagra Falls area of N.Y.
(or perhaps it was Erie, Pa.)

I live mainly in England and our ministry 'MORIEL' operates mainly in Israel, but we have branches in several countries.

In the USA we are based in Pittsburgh.
Our web site is : www.moriel.org

I would warmly welcome fellowship with any ex COBU friends.
Perhaps they might like to check out our web site, get our periodical, or attend one of our meetings in their area on an upcoming American itinerary (I have one in Pittsburgh, Honalulu, Maui, Sacramento, Cedar Rapids , Iowa and Moline , Illinoise in March/April and dates in late summer in Memphis, and at Calvary Chapel in Old Bridge New Jersey). Sometimes I am even invited to speak in old COBU haunts in the Philadelphia area and Allentown.

Meanwhile, I am wishing you and the other brethren Jesus has delivered from the cultic bondage of COBU every blessing in Him.

That Stuart Trail is drunk with pride and has become heretical in his beliefs and personally immoral is without question. It is also obvious that he is to some degree demonized (he certainly teaches doctrines of demons such as forbidding marriage).. I also wonder if he is mentally deranged.

I just do not understand how people who allowed him to rob them of their youth now let him continue to s[iritually and emotionally abuse them and exploite them in middle age.

Surely if someone has a personal relationship with The Lord , The Holy Spirit will guide them out of such bondage, deception, and nonsense.


In Christ,


James Jacob Prasch
(Moriel Ministries)
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Message: 22
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:18:29 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: RE: Fw: [sharpen] Care for new members...


Dear James,

Welcome to the list! I probably do not remember you because I did not join
COBU until 1979. I know a lot left fellowship before I came in. So I
believe I missed a whole generation of folks.
That is encouraging to hear of your ministry. I love to hear about
x-members who have gone on to use the gifts Jesus gave us in a mighty way.

ST is worse than demonical-well you could say he is morally deranged...I
think he is in need of definite psychiatric care.

He has really hurt a lot of people and continues to prey on others. I
wonder in horror what must go on inside the four walls of his prison camps.

sincerely
CK
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Message: 23
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:19:48 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sharpen] Matthew 10 as Final Christian Mission

Maybe you could suggest a direction?? :)
CK 
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Message: 24
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:47:21 -0500
  From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Helpful Info

Here is a paper I was given when I was in a counseling group here in
Buffalo..I have seen others like this one and could find scriptures to
ensure it is bible based.
Yet, it does help one to establish healthy and safe boundaries. And that is
one thing that we all had demolished while in COBU, if we ever had them to
start with.



PERSONAL BILL OF RIGHTS


1.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR WHAT I WANT.

2.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO TO REQUESTS OR DEMANDS I CAN'T MEET.

3.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS ALL OF MY FEELINGS, POSITIVE
OR     NEGATIVE.

4.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE MY MIND.

5.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE MISTAKES AND NOT HAVE TO BE PERFECT.

6.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO FOLLOW MY OWN VALUES AND STANDARDS.

7.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO TO ANYTHING WHEN I FEEL I AM NOT READY,
      IT IS UNSAFE, OR IT VIOLATES MY VALUES.

8.      I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE MY OWN PRIORITIES.

9.      I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHERS'
BEHAVIORS,   ACTIONS, FEELINGS OR PROBLEMS.

10.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPECT HONESTY FROM OTHERS.

11.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY AT SOMEONE I LOVE.

12.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE UNIQUELY MYSELF.

13.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO FEEL SCARED AND SAY "I'M AFRAID."

14.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY "I DON'T KNOW."

15.     I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO GIVE EXCUSES OR REASONS FOR MY BEHAVIOR.

16.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON MY FEELINGS.

17.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MY OWN NEEDS FOR PERSONAL SPACE AND TIME.

18.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE PLAYFUL AND NURTURING TO MYSELF.

19.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HEALTHIER THAN THOSE AROUND ME.

20.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE  IN A NON ABUSIVE  ENVIRONMENT.

21.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE FRIENDS AND BE COMFORTABLE AROUND      PEOPLE.

22.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE MY NEEDS AND WANTS TO BE RESPECTED BY  OTHERS.

23.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT.

24.     I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HAPPY.

PRINT THIS OUT AND HANG IN A PLACE AT WORK OR HOME WHERE YOU MAY REVIEW
THESE RIGHTS EVERYDAY...."PHOBIA AND ANXIETY WORKBOOK"
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Message: 25
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:10:06 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sharpen] Matthew 10 as Final Christian Mission
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:19:48 -0500 Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@netzero.net>
writes:
>Maybe you could suggest a direction?? :)
>CK


i can!  DOWN.  :)    e

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:46:52 MST [Show full headers] 
Subject: [sharpen] Digest Number 559

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Message: 1
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:20:29 -0500
  From: "Raynard Merritt" <AFA1LQ@HOME.COM>
Subject: Warning; Joy approaching

Every Sunday afternoon, after the morning service at
their church, the Pastor and his eleven year old son
would go out into their town and hand out Gospel Tracts.
This particular Sunday afternoon, as it came time for
the Pastor and his son to go to the streets with
their tracts, it was very cold outside as well as pouring
down rain. The boy bundled up in his warmest and driest
clothes and said "OK dad, I'm ready."

His Pastor dad asked, "Ready for what?
"Dad, it's time we gather our tracts together
and go out." Dad responds, "Son, it's very cold outside and
it's pouring down rain." The boy gives his dad a surprised
look, asking, "But dad, aren't People still going to Hell,
even though it's raining?" Dad answers, "Son, I am not
going out in this weather."
Despondently the boy asks. "Dad, can I go--Please?"
His father hesitated for a moment then said,
"Son, you can go. Here's the tracts; be careful son."
"
Thanks Dad!!!" And with that he was off and out
into the rain. This eleven year old boy walked the
streets of the town going door to door and handing
everybody he met in the street a Gospel Tract. After
2 hours of walking in the rain he was soaking bone chilled
wet and down to his VERY LAST TRACT.
He stopped on a corner and looked for someone to hand
a tract to but the streets were totally deserted.

Then he turned toward the first home he saw and
started up the sidewalk  to the front door and rang the
door bell. He rang the bell--but nobody answered.
He rang it again and again bit still no one answered. He waited
but still no answer. Finally this eleven year old trooper
turned to leave but something stopped him.

Again, he turned to the door and rang the bell
and started knocking loudly on the door with his fist.
He waited, something holding him there on the front
porch. He rang again, and this time the door slowly
opened. Standing in the doorway was a very sad looking
elderly lady. She softly asked, "What can I do for you son?"

With radiant eyes and a Smile that lit up her world this little
boy said, "Mam, I'm sorry if I disturbed you, but I just
want to tell you that JESUS REALLY DOES LOVE YOU,
and I came to give you my very last Gospel Tract which will
tell you all about JESUS and His great LOVE."
With that he handed her his last tract, and turned to leave. She
called to him as he departed, "Thank you son! And God
Bless You!"

Well, the following Sunday Morning in Church,
Pastor Dad was in the Pulpit and as the service began he asked,
"Does anybody have a testimony or want to say anything?"
Slowly, in the back row of the Church, an elderly lady stood
to her feet. As she began to speak. A look of glorious radiance
came from her face as she said -- "None of you in this church
know me. I've never been here before. You see, before last Sunday I was
not a Christian. My husband has passed on, some time ago, leaving me totally
alone in this world.

Last Sunday, being a particularly cold and rainy day, It was even more
so in my heart as I came to the end of the line where I no longer
had any hope or will to live. So I took a rope and a chair and ascended the
stairway into the attic of my home. I fastened the rope securely to a
rafter in the roof then stood on the chair and fastened the other end of the
rope around my neck.

Standing on that chair, so lonely and brokenhearted, I was about to leap
off when suddenly the loud ringing of my doorbell downstairs startled me.
I thought, 'I'll wait a minute, and whoever it is will go away.' I waited and
waited--But the ringing doorbell seemed to get louder and more insistent
and then the person ringing also started knocking loudly.

I thought to myself again, 'Who on earth could
this be?! Nobody ever rings my bell or comes to see me." I loosened the
rope from my neck and started for the front door, all the while the Bell rang
louder and louder. When I
opened the door and
looked
I could hardly believe my eyes for there on my front porch was the
most radiant and Angelic little boy I had ever seen in my life. His SMILE,
Oh, I could never describe it to you !!!
And the Words that came from his mouth caused my Heart, that had long
been dead, TO LEAP TO LIFE as
he exclaimed 'Ma'am, I just came to tell you that JESUS REALLY DOES
LOVE YOU.' Then he gave me this Gospel Tract that I now hold in my hand.
As the little Angel disappeared back out, into the cold and rain, I closed my
door and read slowly every word of this Gospel Tract. Then I went up to my
attic to get my rope and chair. I wouldn't be needing them any more. You
see, I am now a Happy Child of the KING, and since the address of your
Church was on the back of this Gospel Tract I have come here to personally
say, THANK YOU TO GOD'S LITTLE ANGEL WHO CAME JUST IN
THE NICK OF TIME AND, BY SO DOING, SPARED MY SOUL FROM
ETERNITY IN HELL "

There were now no dry eyes in the Church. And Shouts of Praise,
and Honor to THE KING, resounded off the very rafters of the building.

Pastor Dad descended from the pulpit to the front pew where the
little Angel was seated;  He took him in his arms and sobbed
uncontrollably. Probably no  Church has had a more glorious moment.
AND probably this Universe has never seen a Papa that was more filled
with love & honor for his son,
EXCEPT for one -- this FATHER also allowed His Son to go out into
a Cold & Dark World. He received His Son back with Joy unspeakable, and as
all of Heaven Shouted Praises and Honor to THE KING, The FATHER sat HIS
BELOVED SON on a Throne far above all Principality and Power...and every
name that is named....

There may be SOMEONE, reading this, who is also going through a Dark,
Cold, Lonely time in your soul. You may be a Christian, for we are not without
problems, OR you may not yet Know THE KING. Whatever the case,  and
Whatever the problem or situation you find yourself in, and no matter how
DARK it may seem, I want you to know that I just came to tell you,
JESUS REALLY DOES LOVE YOU.
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Message: 2
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:49:26 EST
  From: Symmetor@aol.com
Subject: Matthew 24 as Secret Admonition for Final Christians Only

>    From: "tledonne" <tledonne@sunlink.net>
> Subject: Re: the "world"
>
> Steve,
> Thank you very much.  I think what you put forth makes a lot of sense.  I
> never considered the transfiguration; I just assumed this to mean the second
> coming.  But the verses you speak of "fit."  As I said, when I read Mt 24, I
> cannot shake the notion that this is speaking to us (or, I should rather
> say, to the generation that sees all those things).  On the other hand, I
> think it's good to examine all this and know what I believe and why.  The
> problem for me with this whole preterism issue is that it is so enormous, I
> don't quite know how to go at it.  It's not really one point of discrepancy,
> but encompasses everything.

>
> Neil writes:
>
>      The transfiguration does not address 'some standing here who will not
> taste death before they see the coming of the Kingdom with power'. Jesus
> was certainly promising the consummation of things within the natural
> lifetimes of His hearers.
>
> Matthew 24  Paraphrased
>

>      The christs go out and depart from the church, and their juniors come
> to them to plead for the denominations of the church. The christs say to
> them, "Do you not see all these churches? Assuredly, we say to you, not one
> adherent will be left adhering to another, who will not be thrown down."
>     Now as they sit as outcasts of the church, their juniors come to them
> privately, saying, "Tell us how such disintegration comes about, and what
> should be the beginning of your accession, and of the collapse of primal
> Christianity."
>     The christs answer and say to them, "Take heed that no one deceives
> you. For impostors will come as we came, saying, 'We are the christs', and
> will deceive many.
    " And you will hear of schisms, and threats of schisms. See that you
are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
> For movement will rise against movement, and church against church. And
> there will be emptiness, dissolution, and upheavals in various churches.
> All these are the beginning of sorrows.
>      "Then Christians will deliver you up to trial, and excommunicate you,
> and you will be hated by all churches for our reputation's sake. Even final
> Christians will be offended, will betray one another, and hate one another.

> Then the false interpreters will rise up and deceive them. Because
> heedlessness seems prosperous, many final Christians' love will grow cold.
> But those who endure to the end will be vindicated. And this gospel of
> spiritual interpretation will be preached in all the church, as a witness
> to all Christian movements, and then the end will come.
>      "Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by
> the Lord Jesus, standing in the churches' pulpits (whoever interprets, let
> him understand), then let final Christians who remain in 'church' flee to
> unchurchedness; final Christians with places in the churches ought not to
> hope to salvage anything about their places; let final Christians who are
> involved in church not turn back to rescue their reputations. But woe to
> those who coax converts, and to those with recent converts from the church.
> Lord willing perhaps your flight may not multiply your  trouble,  or
> interrupt your rest. For then there will be great trouble, as there has not
> been since the beginning of the church until this time, no, nor ever shall
> be. And unless the collapse were halted, no Christian would be saved; but
> for final Christianity's sake, that collapse will be stayed.
>      "Then if anyone tells final Christians, 'Look, here are the christs!',
> or, 'There!', do not believe it. For false christs, and false interpreters
> will arise and make impressive displays of interpretation, so as to
> deceive, if possible, even final Christians. See, we have warned you
> beforehand. Therefore if some say, 'They are keeping themselves aloof', do
> not seek them; or 'Look, they are secretly ensconced in church', do not
> believe it. For as sudden illumination leaps from bare  fundamentals,
> instantly implying their eventual outcome, so also will be the supercession
> of the sons of Jesus. Wherever the disinherited churches remain, there the
> scavengers will be conspiring together.
>     "Immediately after the trouble attending its supplanting, church
> teaching will be humbled; its prevailing opinion will not have any glory;
> its elders will fall from authority; and the sway of the clergy will be
> shaken. The surpassing teaching of the sons of Jesus will manifest as
> superior, and then all the inferior conspiracies will mourn, and they will
> perceive the sons of Jesus having come in clouds of words disguising
> spiritual power and glory.
>      "And they will send their messages as the expected 'sound of the
> trumpet', and these will gather together their beloved from throughout the
> church, from one end of  it to the other.

>      "Now consider the 'fig tree' of primal Christianity: a transplantable
> branch has already grown potent, and sent forth proponents. You know its
> fruition is near. So final Christians, when they discern all these things,
> know that newness is near, just out of sight. Assuredly, we say to you,
> whoever hears this will not finish his course without seeing all the
> shadows fulfilled. Leaders and churches will pass away, but the true
> interpretation of the Gospel will remain.
  "But of the time and moment no one knows, no, not even we, the messengers
of Jesus; only Jesus Himself knows. But as the days of Jesus were, so also
will be the coming of the sons of Jesus. For as in the days before the
destructions, Jews were about their business, multiplying and preparing to
multiply, until the moment when Jesus sealed His church; they did not know
until the Romans came and took them all away. Likewise will the sons of Jesus
be to the complacent church.
  "Then two kinds will be about Christian work; one will be taken and the
other left. Twin Christianities will be preparing each kind's food; one will
be taken and the other left. Watch, therefore; final Christians do not know
what hour their seniors will visit. But know this, that if the rulers of the
churches had known what hour the thieves were coming, they would have watched
and not allowed their congregations  to be broken into. Therefore final

Christians must watch; for the sons of Jesus will visit at a moment when they
do not expect them.
  "Who then are the faithful and wise juniors, whom their seniors made
supervisors over their hearers, to nourish them spiritually in due season?
Blessed are those juniors whom their seniors, when they come, will find so
doing. Assuredly we say to you that they will make them caretakers over all
their hearers.
  "But if those wicked trustees say in their hearts, "Our elders are
delaying their visit," and begin to abuse their fellow followers, and to
indulge their appetites with other degenerates, the elders of those
appointees will appear at a moment when they are not looking for them, and at
a time that they are not aware of, and will expose their duplicitous
treachery, and appoint them their portion with the hypocrites. There shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.   - NP


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Message: 3
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:52:31 -0500
  From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I would say you get extra credit.

John P King wrote:

> mine is still reeling from another's latest reply to my answers sent to
> him privately over another issue.  felt all squiggly inside after reading
> that post.  that has to be my stomach speaking directly to my brain which
> responded in kind.  does that count?     e


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Message: 4
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:23:08 -0000
  From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: humor


From:  Owen
     Dear
   
Q: Why do bagpipers walk when they play?
 
A: They're trying to get away from the noise.
***************
The coed came running in tears to her father. "Dad, you gave
me some terrible financial advice!" she cried.

"I did? What did I tell you?" said the dad.

"You told me to put my money in that big bank, and now that
big bank is in trouble."

"What are you talking about? That's one of the largest banks
in the world," he said. "Surely there must be some mistake."

"I don't think so," she sniffed. "They just returned one of
my checks with a note saying, 'Insufficient Funds'."


A family tree is worth bragging about only if it produces good  timber and not just nuts.
    Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net  

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Message: 5
  Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:56:55 -0000
  From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: divides

Wayne has said often "doctrine divides".
From:  Owen
     Dear Tom
    At Grace Baptist we have a slogan: "all doctrine is important but not all doctrine divides".


A family tree is worth bragging about only if it produces good  timber and not just nuts.
    Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net  

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Message: 7
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:35:18 -0500
  From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: the "world"

STEVE  wrote  -  (20 Jan 2001, 1441)
I believe he was simply saying that this persecution would prevent them from
going to all the cities in Israel before He returned a 2nd time.

MARK  writes  -  (30  JAN 2001)
Dear Steve;  If in fact Jesus coming was to be separated from the outside
limits of the life expectancies of His disciples (when He said this) by
2,000 or more years, what sense does it make for Jesus to speak this way?  
If Jesus was simply (or only) addressing Himself to the question of how much
ground the disciples would cover during their lifetimes, what does the
Second Coming have to do with it if your above statement was what He meant?


STEVE  wrote  -
Also, the part of verse 23 that says "before the Son of Man comes" may also
be referring to the upcoming transfiguration event. I submit the following
verses to prove this belief I have come to hold.

MARK  writes -
I am accustomed to seeing Christians refer Matt. 16:28 to the
Transfiguration (or else to Pentecost) which is easier to justify, than it
is in the case of Matt. 23.  Obviously you are extending the argument to
Matthew 10:23 by way of Matt.16:28.  But I believe this argument defies
common sense!  The Transfiguration took place BEFORE the crucifixion,
resurrection, and ascension.  Jesus had not yet departed from His disciples.
How could Jesus ?Come? at the Transfiguration if He was already there?  
How can someone ARRIVE who has never left?


STEVE  wrote  -
I think Jesus is speaking of two separate events in verse 27 and 28 of
Matt.16. Verse 27 is speaking of His 2nd coming, and verse 28 is referring
to the "vision" transfiguration event that is about to occur 8 days from the
time He spoke these words to the disciples, the 12, that He was sending out.

MARK  writes  -
Actually, it was six days, not eight; but I'll get back to the fact that it
was less than a week.  It is typical for futurists to arbitrarily divide
verses 27 and 28 (of Matt.16) just like they divide Matthew 24 in order to
make their theory work.  The reason for this is because it is impossible not
to see that in the case of verse 27 that final judgment is indicated.  But I
will ask you to be as honest with me as you can, and imagine that you were
living before 70 AD and reading Matt.16:27-28 for the first time.  What
reason would you have to conclude that Jesus was speaking of two separate
events in those two verses?  Jesus speaks in both of these verses of His
coming.  What hint do you find in the language that He uses in these
consecutive sayings to distinguish the nature of His coming in the one case
from that in the other?
    Now I can see how Christians get started with what really is barking
up the wrong tree, since the transfiguration account is the very next
passage following Matt.16:28.  But some common sense would go a long way to
help us out again.  Because Matt.17:1 says; After six days!  The
transfiguration took place less than a week after Jesus said what He did in
Matt.16:28!  I heard a preacher who said to his congregation one Sunday
morning, Some of you standing here will be alive next week!
    The opposite of understatement is overstatement.  How absurdly
anti-climactic it would be if Jesus actually meant to say that some of His
disciples were going to survive for a few days!!  Wow, what a mighty word of
prophecy!!  And why only SOME?  Was He hedging His bet just in case one or
two of them slipped and fell off the mountain on the way up?  Was Peter
really that much of a clutz?  Pentecost would be a slightly better angle on
this but not by very much.
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Message: 8
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:46:28 -0500
  From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: John Noe

TOM  wrote  -  (23 Jan 2001, 2058)
I was thinking of a few things - destined?  If someone is destined why
question?
Just do. I have heard of dogs - they're very good at being themselves.  And
are not ashamed one bit to run around and let you know how glad they are to
see you. I am still left with the "you can't get there from here feeling."  
I understand what you're saying - and then I get lost.

MARK  writes  -  (30 JAN 2001)
Destiny (or predestination) and free will are not mutually exclusive of one
another, regardless of the difficulty humans have in seeing these as
coexisting.  Having said that, I do lean toward predestination a bit because
no one who sins has a perfectly free will, subject to their anger,
resentment, etc..   Some choose to be freed by hiding from the knowledge of
what they are.


TOM  wrote  -  Am I destined to "play a different" part than you?  I hearken
back to a meeting I went to - I don't know if you knew her from Calvary
Chapel - Dott (Connel?) and her sister moved to Washington State, before
they left, they had this "preacher" come visit their house.

MARK  -  A different part?  I don't know, of course, and its most likely
not for me to say; but each and every one of us will necessarily fulfill the
paradigm one way or the other, and the paradigm itself is clearly
delineated.  The various roles are all laid out in scripture.

I do remember being seeing Dot at Jim and Carol's house a few times, several
years ago.

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Message: 9
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:08:32 -0500
  From: Cathy <cathy@ezonline.com>
Subject: humor:  The Noise


A man is driving down the road and breaks down near a monastery.  He goes
to the monastery, knocks on the door, and says, "My car broke down.  Do you think I could stay the night?"

The monks graciously accept him, feed him dinner, even fix his car.  As the
man tries to fall asleep, he hears a strange sound. The next morning, he asks the monks what the sound was,
but they say, "We can't tell you.
You're not a monk."

The man is disappointed but thanks them anyway and goes about his merry way.

Some years later, the same man breaks down in front of the same monastery.
The monks accept him, feed him,
even fix his car.  That night, he hears the same strange noise that he had
heard years earlier.

The next morning, he asks what it is, but the monks reply, "We can't tell
you. You're not a monk."

The man says, "All right, all right. I'm dying to know.  If the only way I
can find out what that sound was is to become a monk, how do I become a monk?"

The monks reply, "You must travel the earth and tell us how many blades of
grass there are and the exact
number of sand pebbles.  When you find these numbers, you will become a monk."

The man sets about his task.  Forty-five years later, he returns and knocks
on the door of the monastery.  He
says, "I have traveled the earth and have found what you have asked for.
There are 145,236,284,232 blades
of grass and 231,281,219,999,129,382 sand pebbles on the earth."

The monks reply, "Congratulations. You are now a monk.  We shall now show
you the way to the sound."

The monks lead the man to a wooden door, where the head monk says, "The
sound is right behind that door."

The man reaches for the knob, but the door is locked.  He says, "Real
funny.  May I have the key?"  The monks
give him the key, and he opens the door.  Behind the wooden door is another
door made of stone.  The man
demands the key to the stone door.  The monks give him the key, and he
opens it, only to find a door made of
ruby.  He demands another key from the monks, who provide it.  Behind that
door is another door, this one
made of sapphire.  So it went until the man had gone through doors of
emerald, silver, topaz, amethyst...
Finally, the monks say, "This is the last key to the last door."  The man
is relieved to no end.  He unlocks
the door, turns the knob, and behind that door he is amazed to find the
source of that strange sound.




But I can't tell you what it is because you're not a monk.



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Message: 10
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:12:09 -0500
  From: Cathy <cathy@ezonline.com>
Subject: humor:  Prayers


A little girl, dressed in her Sunday best, was running as fast as she
could, trying not to be late for Bible class.

As she ran she prayed, "Dear Lord, please don't let me be late!  Dear Lord,
please don't let me be late!"

As she was running and praying, she tripped on a curb and fell, getting her
clothes dirty and tearing her dress.  She got up, brushed herself off, and
started running again.

As she ran she once again began to pray, "Dear Lord, please don't let me be
late!...But don't shove me either."



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Message: 11
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:44:42 EST
  From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jesse Jackson

In a message dated 1/30/2001 4:19:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tledonne@sunlink.net writes:


> Maybe you're judging that Owen has judged.
 

Whatever!
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:11:12 MST [Show full headers] 
Subject: [x-cobu] Digest Number 4
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Message: 1
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:08:20 -0800
  From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: john's father

thanks to all for those prayers.  keep it "UP"!    love,  ellen

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Message: 2
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:20:29 -0500
  From: "Raynard Merritt" <AFA1LQ@HOME.COM>
Subject: Warning; Joy approaching

Every Sunday afternoon, after the morning service at
their church, the Pastor and his eleven year old son
would go out into their town and hand out Gospel Tracts.
This particular Sunday afternoon, as it came time for
the Pastor and his son to go to the streets with
their tracts, it was very cold outside as well as pouring
down rain. The boy bundled up in his warmest and driest
clothes and said "OK dad, I'm ready."

His Pastor dad asked, "Ready for what?
"Dad, it's time we gather our tracts together
and go out." Dad responds, "Son, it's very cold outside and
it's pouring down rain." The boy gives his dad a surprised
look, asking, "But dad, aren't People still going to Hell,
even though it's raining?" Dad answers, "Son, I am not
going out in this weather."
Despondently the boy asks. "Dad, can I go--Please?"
His father hesitated for a moment then said,
"Son, you can go. Here's the tracts; be careful son."
"
Thanks Dad!!!" And with that he was off and out
into the rain. This eleven year old boy walked the
streets of the town going door to door and handing
everybody he met in the street a Gospel Tract. After
2 hours of walking in the rain he was soaking bone chilled
wet and down to his VERY LAST TRACT.
He stopped on a corner and looked for someone to hand
a tract to but the streets were totally deserted.

Then he turned toward the first home he saw and
started up the sidewalk  to the front door and rang the
door bell. He rang the bell--but nobody answered.
He rang it again and again bit still no one answered. He waited
but still no answer. Finally this eleven year old trooper
turned to leave but something stopped him.

Again, he turned to the door and rang the bell
and started knocking loudly on the door with his fist.
He waited, something holding him there on the front
porch. He rang again, and this time the door slowly
opened. Standing in the doorway was a very sad looking
elderly lady. She softly asked, "What can I do for you son?"

With radiant eyes and a Smile that lit up her world this little
boy said, "Mam, I'm sorry if I disturbed you, but I just
want to tell you that JESUS REALLY DOES LOVE YOU,
and I came to give you my very last Gospel Tract which will
tell you all about JESUS and His great LOVE."
With that he handed her his last tract, and turned to leave. She
called to him as he departed, "Thank you son! And God
Bless You!"

Well, the following Sunday Morning in Church,
Pastor Dad was in the Pulpit and as the service began he asked,
"Does anybody have a testimony or want to say anything?"
Slowly, in the back row of the Church, an elderly lady stood
to her feet. As she began to speak. A look of glorious radiance
came from her face as she said -- "None of you in this church
know me. I've never been here before. You see, before last Sunday I was
not a Christian. My husband has passed on, some time ago, leaving me totally
alone in this world.

Last Sunday, being a particularly cold and rainy day, It was even more
so in my heart as I came to the end of the line where I no longer
had any hope or will to live. So I took a rope and a chair and ascended the
stairway into the attic of my home. I fastened the rope securely to a
rafter in the roof then stood on the chair and fastened the other end of the
rope around my neck.

Standing on that chair, so lonely and brokenhearted, I was about to leap
off when suddenly the loud ringing of my doorbell downstairs startled me.
I thought, 'I'll wait a minute, and whoever it is will go away.' I waited and
waited--But the ringing doorbell seemed to get louder and more insistent
and then the person ringing also started knocking loudly.

I thought to myself again, 'Who on earth could
this be?! Nobody ever rings my bell or comes to see me." I loosened the
rope from my neck and started for the front door, all the while the Bell rang
louder and louder. When I opened the door and looked
I could hardly believe my eyes for there on my front porch was the
most radiant and Angelic little boy I had ever seen in my life. His SMILE,
Oh, I could never describe it to you !!!
And the Words that came from his mouth caused my Heart, that had long
been dead, TO LEAP TO LIFE as he exclaimed 'Ma'am, I just came to tell you that JESUS REALLY DOES
LOVE YOU.' Then he gave me this Gospel Tract that I now hold in my hand.
As the little Angel disappeared back out, into the cold and rain, I closed my
door and read slowly every word of this Gospel Tract. Then I went up to my
attic to get my rope and chair. I wouldn't be needing them any more. You
see, I am now a Happy Child of the KING, and since the address of your
Church was on the back of this Gospel Tract I have come here to personally
say, THANK YOU TO GOD'S LITTLE ANGEL WHO CAME JUST IN
THE NICK OF TIME AND, BY SO DOING, SPARED MY SOUL FROM
ETERNITY IN HELL "

There were now no dry eyes in the Church. And Shouts of Praise,
and Honor to THE KING, resounded off the very rafters of the building.

Pastor Dad descended from the pulpit to the front pew where the
little Angel was seated;  He took him in his arms and sobbed
uncontrollably. Probably no  Church has had a more glorious moment.
AND probably this Universe has never seen a Papa that was more filled
with love & honor for his son,
EXCEPT for one -- this FATHER also allowed His Son to go out into
a Cold & Dark World. He received His Son back with Joy unspeakable, and as
all of Heaven Shouted Praises and Honor to THE KING, The FATHER sat HIS
BELOVED SON on a Throne far above all Principality and Power...and every
name that is named....

There may be SOMEONE, reading this, who is also going through a Dark,
Cold, Lonely time in your soul. You may be a Christian, for we are not without
problems, OR you may not yet Know THE KING. Whatever the case,  and
Whatever the problem or situation you find yourself in, and no matter how
DARK it may seem, I want you to know that I just came to tell you,
JESUS REALLY DOES LOVE YOU.

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Message: 3
  Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:28:36 -0500
  From: "richard farretta" <rng777@hotmail.com>
Subject: Forgiveness {sometimes its not easy}

Dear Brothers and Sisters,



Since I have been viewing this site I have noticed that some have much bitterness toward COBU, remember all believers are part of the Body of Christ no matter what group they may or may not belong to and we should not speak evil of brethren.
We should uplift and pray for all members of the Body of Christ especially those who have been overtaken by sin.
We need to remember we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual beings and forces that are inspired by satan, he is our enemy .
Stewart Traill is hopelessly lost in deception at this time, however if we pray for him and his eyes are opened think of all those who will be loosed who are under his influence.

Those who  have not forgiven Stewart need to for their own  sakes since your prayer life will be hindered until you let go of all hate and unforgiveness toward everyone.
Whoever has gotten the idea that forgiveness is optional is presently deceived in that area because forgiveness is mandatory.
Remember  
Father forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

For if we will not forgive others of their trespasses then we will not be forgiven .

Half the battle to forgiveness is realizing it is not an option it is a command of God.
I pray that you may choose this day to make a decision to forgive all who have sinned against you or at the very least that you ask God for help in moving in that direction.
Love  
In Christ  
Richard Farretta
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