Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 497
Date:  30 Nov 2000 08:34:46 -0000

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  Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:10:50 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: The One True Church

>      Father Damen preached in an age quiterecent to our own,
>      when Catholics not only still universally believed but lived
>      by the infallibly declared, immutableconstant dogma of the
>      Faith: Outside the Church there isno salvation. This was,
>      in fact, his whole creed and teaching, by which he
>      effectively converted so many
>
Sounds like the Cobu mindset when I was in there - and still seemsto
be the same as far as I can see - which isn't too far.
They don't "reach out" like they used to.  Is this because
1) they have plenty of new faithful young recruits do to the slavelabor

2) they are busy with the slave labor - need that all important millions

3) their teaching is such that we're lost
4) their teaching is such that they're lost
5) they really don't want us to get involved again -
after all, we won't; the veil's been removed.
6) I think they're ashamed of the fact that they have to stay
there.  Maureen has probably written on that.  I know I'veread
about it - people who, even though they know what they're doing is
"wrong," they've already sold themselves to it - and it's the onlyway
they know.  Something along those lines.
But still - case in point - even though you know how those particular
Catholics felt (1st pp) - you also know how you felt when you werein
the Cobumindset - in particular - thinking we have an exclusive way - and those
on the outside are something less, if not totally lost.  We knowwhat
those in Cobu feel and believe to be true -and how wrong it is.
And yet we still know they have a relationship with Jesus that, I would
dare to say in most cases, is sincere.
I mean, yours was, wasn't it?
And you espoused those teachings/feelings or you weren't towing the
party line and didn't last long.  So I would hesitate to condemnthem
outright - think of all the things it was clearly Jesus doing - andthen
look at our - what was the word Steve used?  - whatever it was- it
was correct, and yet, looked how Jesus loved us and worked through
us and did good all around.
BTW - in yesterday's Metro (the free Philly paper put out by Septa)
in the middle they had a whole article about exorcisms in Mexico the
Catholic church has been performing.  They still happen. Even M
Scott Peck wrote about witnessing first hand these things (possessions).

In conclusion - one can put down the leader, or the teaching and not
necessarily the people.  But how do you think the faithful inCobu
feel when we do that?
And in that fashion - you can put yourself in another's shoes.

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Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:19:09 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: what i "know"===quakers

cathy;

i don't really know how much i really know really.  kind of a difficult
question to answer.  have read a few of their writers and beenblessed by
them.  have also heard and understand the concerns of evangelicalsabout
the quakers' philosophies being of an existentialist-type quality. they
have been criticized re:  their supposed belief in the good ofman which
they call the inner light.  many fundamentalists have taken thisto mean
that they are finding God within themSELVES--a pretty fruitless search.
however those that i have read do not purport that so i do not knowif it
is a simple misunderstanding or not.  they have been a very persecuted
lot through history and a great blessing to runaway slaves during the
Civil War as well.  ellen

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Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:24:47 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: News flash...

oh, my.  and you put that so delicately too.  thank you.  i never knew it
was such a problem. it's surprising to me that a public figure
would allow others to know they were trying it out too!  i can't
imagine my husband sharing such information with anyone.  whatare we
coming to?  love, ellen

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Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:12:37 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Wisdom/ light within

hello owen:
 

did they mean that all had the capacity to reach God through that place
or that they found Him in there and He was already in all of us? that's
my question.  i think i'll look it up next week some time unlessyou beat
me to it.  obviously the latter is an unScriptural stance andmay explain
some of the problems they have had with the established churches. i
always wonder about things like this in history.

how was your thanksgiving time with your family?  ours was quiet.  we
made quiche--not exactly traditional but fun for a change.  hopeyou're
well.   love,  ellen

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Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:48:53 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what i "know"===quakers

Dear Ellen,

Thankyou kindly for that bit of information. I know
that they do not believe in war or fighting and will
not raise a gun or fist to defend themselves---So I
believe that this particular belief system requires a
lot of faith in God- And God if He is in someway
inside a man,  then by loving and caring for your
enemies you will bring out this so called "inner
light"

But then again I am not sure of this as fact. I do
find them to be accomnable and loving and generous.
Much fruit.

ck

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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 05:29:04 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Mark

ML:  Are Sheol, Abaddon, Hades and Gehenna all distinct from oneanother?
  OC:    Sheol, and Abaddon, are the Hebrew wordsfor Hades and Gehenna.  Sheol/
Hades are where the wicked wait while Gehenna/Abaddon is the lake offire.
(IMHO)

  Or are some of them or even all of them the same?  Whatabout Tartarus and
  the "outer darkness"?  Daniel 12:2 states that "many whosleep in the dust
  of the earth shall awake.".  Jesus said that "all who arein the graves"
  would "come forth".  How do we reconcile the word "many"with the word
  "all"?

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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:31:08 EST
   From: mgriffo@aol.com
Subject: Re: re: hospital time again.....

Carol:  I'm behind in reading the Sharpen posts and have had todelete a lot
of them.  However, I came upon this today.  Your husband,you and your son
are in my prayers as well.
Maureen

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 498
Date:  1 Dec 2000 12:45:23 -0000

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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:16:26 -0500
   From: "Raynard Merritt" <n8vzl@qsl.net>
Subject: Re: The One True Church

How can anyone say anything, but a very hearty and humble Amen brother.

br

But still - case in point - even though you know how those particular
Catholics felt (1st pp) - you also know how you felt when you werein the Cobu
mindset - in particular - thinking we have an exclusive way - and those
on the outside are something less, if not totally lost.  We knowwhat
those in Cobu feel and believe to be true -and how wrong it is.
And yet we still know they have a relationship with Jesus that, I would
dare to say in most cases, is sincere.
I mean, yours was, wasn't it?

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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:28:00 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: formalities

>
> Though often I have wondered about the verse that
> "they were wanderers and nomads, outcasts of whom the
> world is not worthy " and I wonder if God was trying
> to help me to see that it is not by fault that I can't
> find a place to belong or fit in. It is by the very
> root of whom I am in Christ and who He made me to be.

Now there's a thought to think about.
 
 

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:34:10 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: forgiveness

I dreamt death came the other night
  and heaven's door swung wide.
    An angel with her halo bright
       ushered me inside.
 And there, to my astonishment
stood folk I had judged and labeled
  as quite unfit, of little worth,
      and spiritually disabled.
Indignant words rose to my lips
     but never were set free..
For every face showed stunned surprise
     not one - - expected me!

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:38:30 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

>  turned 42 yesterday--the age of curiousity.  love, ellen

Happy birthday.  All the greatest people were born in Nov.
So guess who else was born in Nov.?  Yes, that's right -
Duane Allman!
And guess who else....  I'm 46
physically only.
 
 

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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:28:22 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Resurection/Isaiah

Dear Members of Sharpen:
 

I am thinking of the resurrection and the big meetings
we attended.
 

   "Thou dost keep him in perfect peace,
     Whose mind is stayed on thee,
     Because, because we trust in the,
    Because we trust in theee...."

    "For thy dew is a dew of light
      And on the land of the shades thou willlet it
    fall, in the path of thy judgment,
    Oh Lord we wait for thee......We wait for thee!

The words to this particular song that we often sang
have so much meaning to me as a Christian---And the
resurrection.

When I sang this song I would tilt my head backwards
and close my eyes and I would see those who died in
Chirst arising from the dirt and putting on their
shining garments while being drawn into heaven and the
golden light of God...God's light must be better than
the sun. The sun is only two dimensional in a
way--God's light must encompass everything like Gold,
And his light probably refracts into all that he has
created...
 

The land of the "Shades"--Where we wait for his
return?

Yeah though I walk through the valley of the "shadow"
of death

His dew is a dew of light!!!

I can imagine the resurrection to be a thing of
absolute beauty and holiness.

I loved singing those words...They give me comfort in
the path of death.

CK

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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:12:22 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

Brother Tom,
Happy birthday you old younger bro.(I'm 55 by cracky : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton

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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:28:54 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: formalities

Sister Felicia,
Regarding your comment: "It is many things or perhaps nothing. I justwant
to  belong like the rest of the people in this world.
> Though often I have wondered about the verse that
> "they were wanderers and nomads, outcasts of whom the
> world is not worthy " and I wonder if God was trying
> to help me to see that it is not by fault that I can't
> find a place to belong or fit in. It is by the very
> root of whom I am in Christ and who He made me to be."
I believe this to be a PROFOUND TRUTH. I believe God gives this tous so we
won't get too comfortable here in this life, in this world. Our realhome is
a heavenly one, and we truly are aliens and exiles while we inhabitthese
mortal frames, these jars of clay (or as Chuck Swindoll calls them,cracked
pots : )
I think when we come to see this, we become less burdened with longingsto
belong here and turn our longings more heavenward.
This doesn't do away with our need to belong to a church while here-for
worshipping with other believers and edifying one another. But I thinkit
helps to explain our wanting "to belong like the rest of the peoplein this
world."
God bless you sis.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton

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Message: 11
   Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:47:00 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: from Leno
 

From:  Owen
        Dear ?
 

a.. In Peoria, Illinois, an inmate at a prison was caught beating another inmate
with his prosthetic leg. My question is this, if you're beating someonewith
your prosthetic leg, are you hitting them or kicking them?
 

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:06:53 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: from Leno

* In Peoria, Illinois, an inmate at a prison was caught beating another
> inmate with his prosthetic leg. My question is this, if you're beating
> someone with your prosthetic leg, are you hitting them or kicking
> them?

The answer is in the question, though it doesn't have to be necessarily,
it is.
He was "beating."
He was hitting with the object that was once used as a leg.
If the inmate had kicked with fake leg while it's attached and used
it in the same way and fashion a leg would "normally" be used...
that would then be kicking.
So he, at the time you are asking, was hitting.
Hope this solves the case.

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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:11:42 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

> Brother Tom,
> Happy birthday you old younger bro.(I'm 55 by cracky : )
> Yours in Christ,
> Sola Scriptura,
> Steve Saxton

Thanks - that makes me feel so young!
 
 
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 499
Date:  2 Dec 2000 10:17:31 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 07:06:15 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: formalities

Dear Steve,
Your comments are so true, very true. I have begun to
look at my life as a journey up a steep mountain;
every plateau I reach, builds a stronger desire in me
to get even closer to God and leave behind what is in
this world.

Possessions and status, wealth and notoriety have become
so dim and unimportant in my view of life. I want to
see the world we live in according to God's word and
not according to what I have been told or shown
through, TV media, books, parents, teachers. What
reality is there truly but God? Satan has built this
false reality for others to confuse and distort the
truth of who God is and who we are and the purpose and
meaning to our lives. I believe that through many
trials and suffering I have come this far, by God's
grace. And I have been able to grow deeper through
these trials.
Yes we are cracked pots---truly...Yet imagine what God
will do with us when the time comes--Perhaps we will
no longer be made of clay, but rather of Gold and
Silver, pure and crystalline.

God Bless You Steve
LOVE in Christ
CK

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Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:08:37 EST
   From: JFeath4301@aol.com
Subject: Re: NYC

Hello Guys,
I will be in Manhattan Saturday, you know those shopping spree things.Does
anybody live there anymore. Please let me know. I will check my emailup until
about 11 tonight.
Feathers
 

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:44:56 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: joke

APOCALYPSO NOW!
submitted by David Angier

Saddam Hussein was sitting in his office wondering whom to invade next
when his telephone rang.

"Hallo! Mr. Hussein," a heavily accented voice said. "This is Paddyup in
County Cavan, Ireland. I am ringing to inform you that we are officially
declaring war on you!"

"Well, Paddy," Saddam replied, "this is indeed important news! Tellme,
how big is your army?"

"At this moment in time," said Paddy after a moment's calculation, "there
is myself, my cousin Sean, my next door neighbor Gerry, and the entire
dominoes team from the pub -- that makes eight!"

Saddam sighed. "I must tell you Paddy that I have a million men in my
army waiting to move on my command."

"Begorrah!" said Paddy, "I'll have to ring you back!"

Sure enough, the next day Paddy rang back. "Right Mr. Hussein, the war is
still on! We have managed to acquire some equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be, Paddy?" Saddam asked.

"Well, we have two combine harvesters, a bulldozer and Murphy's tractor
from the farm."

Once more Saddam sighed. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have sixteen
thousand tanks, fourteen thousand armored personnel carriers, andmy
army has increased to two million men since we last spoke."

"Really?" said Paddy "I'll have to ring you back!"

Sure enough, Paddy called again the next day. "Right Mr. Hussein, Iam
sorry to tell you that we have had to call off the war."

"I'm sorry to hear that," said Saddam. "Why the sudden change of heart?"

"Well," said Paddy "We've had a look at the Geneva Convention, all had a
chat, and there's no way we can feed two million prisoners."
 

"I will give you thanks in the great assembly; among throngs of people I
will praise you" (Ps. 35:18).
Bob San Pascual

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:04:30 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: joke

The man looked a little worried when the doctor came in to
administer his annual physical, so the first thing the doctor did
was to ask whether anything was troubling him.

"Well, to tell the truth, Doc, yes," answered the patient.  "You
see, I seem to be getting forgetful. No, it's actually worse than
that. I'm never sure I can remember where I put the car, or whether
I answered a letter, or where I'm going, or what it is I'm going to
do once I get there -- if I get there. So, I really need your help.
What can I do?"

The doctor mused for a moment, then answered in his kindest tones,
"Pay me in advance."
 

"I will give you thanks in the great assembly; among throngs of people I
will praise you" (Ps. 35:18).
Bob San Pascual

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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:21:06 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: UPDATE AND PICS

Mike, I saw the first 12 pics; will look at the others later when Ihave
more time. Like you and others on this list, I'm very busy with school
and work right now. Great memories of great people like Bernie, Galo,
Elon, Lou, and others. Thanks for putting them up, and thank Dave forme
as well.

"I will give you thanks in the great assembly; among throngs of people I
will praise you" (Ps. 35:18).
Bob San Pascual

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Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:07:08 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: formalities

>
> Yes we are cracked pots---truly...Yet imagine what God
> will do with us when the time comes--

Forget where I heard it - someone said we're cracked pots
so that the light can shine through - or show through.
What's the verse - this transcendent power belongs to
God and not to us.

> Perhaps we will
> no longer be made of clay, but rather of Gold and
> Silver, pure and crystaline.
 
 

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Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:18:37 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: NYC

You could try popcarpet@aol.com
I think that's Jim LaRue's email address where he works on
the west side.  He lives, as many others do, in Jersey.
But many still work in the Manhattan area.
Don't know who.
And some have moved out in the last couple years.
Is Jackie's wedding this weekend?  Maybe next.
Whatever....
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Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:31:03 -0500
   From: "Raynard Merritt" <n8vzl@qsl.net>
Subject: Renewed thoughts of Roman Catholism

You would think during these my twilight years :)
I'd know when to keep my mouth hmm er fingers, shut.
All my rantings of the RC empire and I come to find our
brother whom sang so many songs that have touched
my spirit in a special way was after all......
..............................
you guessed it.........
contemplating becoming Roman Catholic prior
to his death in an auto crash.

You will know him from "Awesome God" and
one of my favorites "I see you"

br
 
 

++++++++++++++++++++
R a y n a r d   M e r r i t t
     n8vzl@qsl.net
++++++++++++++++++++

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Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:19:37 -0500
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: wrapping up the resurrection
 

OWEN  wrote  -  (29 Nov 2000, 0458)  From: Owen, Dear Mark
       If it seems that I am only carpingand not offering any solutions
.... well it's the best I can do:
    It seems that this whole discussion about "physicalbodily resurrection"
was really about preterism.  Somehow "physical bodily resurrection"
contradicts some (necessary) aspect of preterism.  Herm, Steve& I don't
work from that direction.  So for now I will drop the subjectof the
resurrection.
 

MARK  writes -  (01 Dec 2000)
The idea of a spiritual resurrection is not restricted to preterists,and
many preterists definitely disagree with me on this idea.  Thereis no
contradiction that I know of with bodily resurrection and preterism.Ed
Stevens, for example, holds to the physical bodily resurrection; whereasMax
King believes the resurrection is spiritual, I haven't studied it enoughto
say I totally agree with him, but he helped open my eyes some.  I recently
obtained some of his tapes on the subject of the resurrection. MaxKing
wrote “The Spirit Of Prophecy” in 1970, which is probably the mostimportant
preterist book in this generation, and a good book for even those whodon’t
agree with him.
      The discussion of the nature ofthe spiritual body was dragged out
for a bit, I admit, and I was hoping to change the subject myself.  However,
the interest shown was a positive thing...  No, I didn’t think you were
carping or anything like that, and I thought you asked some good questions.
Perhaps we misunderstood each other at times.

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Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:23:55 -0500
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: problems with futurism/preterism
 

OWEN  wrote  -   My study of preterism is frustrating, because (while it
exposes weakness in futurism) it is (or seems to be) full of holesitself.
The second coming passages come down on both sides of the question.  It's
like counting scriptures to see if salvation is by works or not.

MARK  writes  -  Of course I’ve known for years there were problems with
futurism, but I’m not saying that everything the preterists believes is
perfect. There are some things many preterists believe that I don’t agree
with, their basis for using the phrase “covenant eschatology” couldbe a
problem.  The important thing in our study is to try to be objective and
fair in our seeking, not tied to traditions or emotionally tied intocertain
ideas and doctrines.  From what I can see in your handling ofthe matter,
you are trying to be objective.  Perhaps you can post more problemsyou see
with preterism when you get a chance (though I will be gone for a week).
         Also I don’t understand what you said about how since apostles
appointed elders, a 70 AD rapture is excluded.  Whoever John mayhave
appointed wouldn’t be a problem, since John is accounted for as remaining
alive until the Lord came.  As for those who were appointed byother
apostles who were martyred before 70 AD, who is to say that they survived
the persecution until the destruction of the temple?  That’s not so clear
cut.

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Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:58:55 -0500 (EST)
   From: WandaPerDieu@webtv.net
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

Carol,
 I hope that your husband is feeling better now . And Tom, Happy
Birthday - I hope that your birthday was full of joy and love.
 
 

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Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 21:10:49 -0800
   From: "shenri" <shenri@sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

typical reaction from  a big corporation,you will never win against them
,they have lawyers to handle that stuff.I got food poisoned et TonyRoma and
all they say was "we will have the manager to phone you".When he didhe
asked me what I ate and then offered me a gift certificate,that's it.Same
with Subway,that time ,I thought I was gonna die,I was so sick.Onetime ,I
saw a woman at Macdonald ,she brought back a Mcwrap and the bread hadmolds
and all they said was"sorry about that,we`ll give you another one"Youhave
to watch what you eat nowadays and its buyer beware cause they willdeny
their responsibilities or try to buy your silence just like Ford doeswhen
one of their lemons is faulty.Eat at home or bring a lunch.
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:37:10 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

Would you like sleepless nights and nightmares with your box of wings?

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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:24:55 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Colson

If this election is not settled quickly, there's a risk that publicconfidence
in the greatest experiment in liberty ever undertaken will be undermined.  -C
Colson
From:  Owen
        Dear All
       The greatest experiment in libertyhas already been undermined.  The
public ought not to put their confidence in it.  I want to seepublic
complacency undermined.
        I don't hate my countryor blame it for all the trouble in the world,
but it needs strong medicine and its leaders are dangerous.  (Lev26:17 "those
who hate you will rule over you")

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:28:50 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: GORinch
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Carol
       Loved it.  What creativity!  Someone has too much time on their hands.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 18
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 04:39:57 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: New Slogans for Florida
 

NEW SLOGANS FOR FLORIDA

FLORIDA: If you think we can't vote, wait till you see us drive.
FLORIDA: Home of electile dysfunction.
FLORIDA: We count more than you do.
FLORIDA: If you don't like the way we count then take I-95 and visitone of
the other 56 states.
FLORIDA: We've been Gored by the bull of politics and we're Bushed.
FLORIDA: Relax, Retire, Revote.
FLORIDA: What comes after 17,311?
FLORIDA: Where your vote counts and counts and counts.
FLORIDA: This is what you get for taking Elian away from us.
FLORIDA: We don't just cheat in football.
FLORIDA: We're number one! Wait! Recount!

OR:

Palm Beach County: So nice, we let you vote twice.
Palm Beach County: We put the "duh" in Florida.

Sign on I-95: Florida this way, no that way, 5 miles, wait 10 miles

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Message: 19
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 04:48:32 EST
   From: JFeath4301@aol.com
Subject: Re: NYC

Thanks Tom
Feathers
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 500
Date:  3 Dec 2000 09:58:11 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:34:48 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: joke

Hey Bob!
You be Irish??
LOL
ck

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Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:37:32 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Colson

So what are we to do?

It is quite a mess out there, yet there isn't anything
God can't fix. I will say Clintons did a whole lot to
the liberty of our nation...

CK

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Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:41:55 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: formalities

Excellent!!!
CK

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Message: 4
   Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:46:59 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Colson

> If this election is not settled quickly, there's a risk that public
> confidence in the greatest experiment in liberty ever undertakenwill
> be undermined.  -C Colson
From:  Owen
>         Dear All
>        The greatest experimentin liberty has already been
> undermined.  The public ought not to put their confidence init.  I
> want to see public complacency undermined.
>

One Presidential election took two months to figure out.
But that was over a hundred years ago some say.
But what's the difference now, really, when you're using
machines and techniques that are a hundred years old?
The interesting thing to me is the fact that people on radio
and TV - in supposedly educated positions still saying
all the same interesting things.  I told my mom that interesting
isn't in the dictionary and she didn't believe me.  At first.

Just yesterday, or the day before  they just discovered who
won the Senate race in Washington state.  When it's a photo
finish you must do a more thorough job.  Or filibuster.

How about the other big lie - -
"our BOOMING economy"
Gimme a break.  A booming economy is the 1950's when a man
could go to work, the wife stay at home and there was some
abundance.
Today, husband and wife must both go to work and still can't
make ends meet.  How is that a "booming" economy?!
It's inflation run amuck.
I think the next four years will be worse.  Whoever ends up inthe
oval office will shoulder the blame.  Even though it has nextto
nothing to do with him and more to do with Alan Greenspan.
Is anyone familiar with "The Creature From Jekyll Island?"
I've never read it - but the truth is about the "Federal Reserve."
There's another big oxy ya moron.
It is NOT federal - and it is NOT a reserve - a bank.
It's a place that prints paper that they deem money.  It may aswell
be toilet paper.  The government talks about running out of money.
How on earth can they run out of money when all they do is keep
the presses running?  It's two cents per piece - no matter ifit's a
one dollar bill, a five, ten, twenty or a hundred dollar bill.  The
cost is two cents per piece of paper.  And pumping all this money
is what is none as "inflating" and you know the result of that?
The dollar is worth less and less.  Just another way "they" steal
from us.
If it's not absconding the numbers from our pay check -
it's devaluing our savings.  In other words - you can save thousands.
But the thousands you save today won't be worth that ten - twenty
years from now.  It is not inconceivable that they'll be worthhalf
as much.  And so your money has been stolen, really, bottom line.
Remember when a "millionaire" was considered set for life?
Hey, could be for me.....

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Message: 5
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:45:14 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

Mistakes Happen!

CK

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Message: 6
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:49:25 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

That's when you gotta call Corporate! The big guys!
The managers are more afraid of them bosses over head
then they are of YOU! And the bosses over head are
just looking to chew out sumbody!
So next time, call the Headquaters and get the
president of the Corporation on line. Like the woman
and the unrighteous judge...keep calling and
complaining till they give you want you want!!!

We got a meal worth 70.00$ because of very very poor
service at Red Lobster.

CK

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Message: 7
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 07:51:59 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: New Slogans for Florida

Hey Di, I never laughed so hard in me life! I grew up
in Florida, so I am a tinsy bit ashamed of me home
country....But I am not surprised.

CK

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Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:10:56 -0500
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: wrapping up the resurrection
 

ELLEN  wrote  -  (28 Nov 2000, 1033)
dear mark-- just thought i'd chime in here.  i thought it wasobvious that
gehenna and paradise were and are no longer since Jesus died, rose,etc.
they are no longer necessary. when he spoke to the souls in prison,those
who were his went with Him and those others did not.  so i supposeonly
gehenna/ Hades/ hell if you want to be technical is operative at themoment
as it is now a choice of rejecting Jesus or not- a choice that didnot exist
for the pre-Jesus-walking-on-the-earth era.  so i can't relateto any
confusion over the words used in Scripture or in our perspective overthem
relating to time:  something we are certainly not outside of andnot able to
look at as if we were.  i guess my BIG question is:  doesall this lead to
some sort of--it's all over already idea---because if it does, i haveother
questions.  just curious.  i think i'm having a curious week.  turned 42
yesterday--the age of curiosity.  love,  ellen
 
 

MARK  writes  -  Happy birthday.  I think many ofus  are "fortysomething".

As for your first statement about Gehenna and paradise are no longerneeded.
  Paul did mention about being caught up to paradise in 2nd Corinthians, and
also mentions "third heaven" in the same verse. I believe Gehenna is
equivalent to hell, but that is an interesting subject.  Maybeyou were
referring to the idea if Hades being split, (which may be hard to prove),
with a place for the righteous dead until Jesus came. I will look intothis
one some more.

The point wasn’t to say, “its all over”, but to say “it’s not that simple”
concerning Owen’s proposition on body / spirit dichotomy.  Myparadigm is
concerning time and eternity, which intersect in a variety of waysand
points.  There are probably many preterists will disagree withme on the
spiritual resurrection idea.   From the point of view ofeternity, things
are already done, but from the point of view of time, things aren’t done
yet.  Jesus spoke of “raise him up at the last day” in John 6,and to the
thief on the cross “today you will be with me in paradise”, may seemlike a
contradiction though it isn’t.

       While preterism is really the point here, the it's all over thing, I
will still be glad to try to answer any questions.

       I can’t answer right away because I will be going down to Florida for
next week, I have a course my job is paying for in Jacksonville. Then I
will get to visit my parents while I’m down there.  Please pray for my mom,
she is in the hospital with pneumonia.

Mark

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Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:42:58 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Eric
       You would think that McDs wouldhave multiple levels of watchfulness.
Plus you would think that the lady would bring it to the counter rightaway.
Could this be an internet hoax?

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 10
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:59:06 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

In a message dated 12/2/2000 12:37:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dococ@surferz.net writes:

<< You would think that McDs would have multiple levels of watchfulness.
Plus you would think that the lady would bring it to the counter rightaway.
  Could this be an internet hoax? >>

I read it in a newspaper here in Baltimore, so I think it may not bea hoax.
Cindy.
 

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Message: 16
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:17:03 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chicken head

In a message dated 12/2/2000 3:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cstutts@kih.net writes:

<< They recently awarded a 19 yr old $135,000  for sexual harassment he
 endured while in  high school..  >>

Some of my friends are still telling me that I should have sued at my
workplace because for a year, my then boss had been methodically doinglittle
things to me to drive me over the edge.  The last straw was inMarch when I
found a baby monitor that was hid in my workstation.  it had beenset up as a
listening device for him to  hear my private conversations. He was removed
that day from his position, but when the owners found out that I wasn'tgoing
to sue, they rehired him as a "third party marketing manager", he eventuall
started coming back into the building.  He still does maybe onceor twice a
week.  He really never lost his income or his office.
Two months ago it came out that another male employee had been sexually
harassing females in the office.  I am the only female stillemployed there.
 Anyone feel that my hesitation to sue or lack of a decision todo so is the
correct thing to do?  I'd like your input.
Thanking you all in advance,  Cindy.
 

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Message: 17
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:45:49 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chicken head

Dear Cindy,

It depends I suppose on what you are looking for. I
believe you should sue to "protect" yourself. MY x
husband was too hot headed and felt everyone should
pay for their faults. He was always complaining about
this or that---But the payback never seems to satisfy
the injustice done.  Not to long ago I was food
poisoned at Kentucky Fried Chicken as was my two
daughters. We kept throwing up all night and for two
days after ward I could not get out of bed. Everyone
told me I needed to go to the hospital and call the
management and become compensated..I was angry about
it. But I decided to let it go--

I will never  eat at another Kentucky Fried Chicken
again. But I suppose you must follow your conscience.
If a man is a sexual predator, sometimes the only way
to stop him is to sue. These days that is all some
people understand.

CK

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Message: 18
   Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 20:19:10 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Chicken; retaliation? Sue?

I was glancing through my books on the shelves...
I've got Sex, Laws & Stereotypes by Fried
The Excuse Factory by Olson
and Risky Business by McClure
I glanced through these books and couldn't find anything that
applied - so what I am writing is from memory (which is always
suspect/clouded, whatever...) and may or may not be from one of
those books......
But I think I even wrote about this before, the fact that my girl
friend put in a sexual harassment thing at work around 1994 and
I think that forever ostracized her.  Things got a little betterover
the years - but not a whole lot.  There's a better word - or aword
that they regularly use that has to do with retaliation.  In hercase,
"You shouldn't do that to a brother..."
What happened to "You shouldn't do that to a sister?!"
Anyway - these guys couldn't take a hint - and one woman said
she should have hit the guys - yeah, and then definitely get thrown
out of the building with their zero tolerance for violence.  (Thenagain
- quite often there are things that happen - and, "nobody saw nothin'"
end of story.)
The thing I remember reading was - the woman confronted the dude,
and "took care of business" - and then dropped it.  Best courseof
action.  The rest of the "boys" in the office respect that, andit's sort
of passing an initiation.
But if you go to those in charge - you could be asking for moretrouble
than anything else - like my girl friend.  There were other sexual
harassments going on at the time - of different types around the PO
that went to higher levels and got people in a lot of trouble.
Some fired.
Being you're the only woman left - you must stand your ground and
stand for nothing.  But going to court, sheesh, look at what'son TV now.
Going to court is expensive and a drag.  Then again - if you had  a good
case, and right now I'd say you don't - just the fact he put somethingthere
to listen in on you -
and can you now prove it?  And who would be a witness on yourbehalf?
I don't think any men would be noble and throw away their careers....
If you had a good case - all you would have to do is threaten a lawsuitand
they would settle just to stay away from the courts, the lawyers, andthe
press possibly.  It would be cost effective to just write youa check.
I don't think you're in that position.
Your job must pay well, or you wouldn't be staying.
I'm going through
some stupid stuff at work that has made life miserable for me and I
think that's why my blood pressure was up a couple weeks ago.
I have since talked with my supervisor, and he understands this
petty person tattle tale that I work with.  I'm going to haveto learn
to live with it for now.
It's sort of a trade off.  I used to work with countless idiots.  I went
to Tour 1 (the overnight shift) where there are fewer people, and
consequently fewer idiots - less stress.
Now, I work in a room - on certain days there's only one other person-
the girl who's a phony.  Sometimes maybe three people.
At the most - five other people in our computer room keying images
they see on a screen.
I like being in this room - sitting in front of a computer.  Betterthan
being out on the dirty work floor with all the other stupidity.  I feel
important - sitting in a chair in front of a computer - and to topit
all off - I finally got day shift - so that my life is almost normal.
To sum it all up - instead of all the other idiots - whom I don't have
to see at all anymore, basically, as I'm on another floor and another
Tour of duty - but now they're all wrapped up in this one phony.
C'est la vie.
Anyway - I can appreciate being in an unhappy situation.  If Icould
find a job paying something near what I get now - I'd be there.
And all that being said - this is the best job yet I've done whilebeing
there - it just always comes down to the idiots you have to work
with.
(Notice my "nice" attitude - IDIOTS!)
As far as it depends upon you - live at peace with all.
Paul knew it wasn't always that easy.  There's always something.
Lawsuits are a drain.  You have to have a very good case and
a willingness to stick it out and win something worth winning.
Sometimes though, like I said about what I read somewhere -
if you could just give the guy a good scare - and I guess you
did - he no longer is working there "permanently," though he
still works there and you feel he "didn't get what he deserved"
- you're probably right.  But it would be best to drop it fornow.
I imagine you get "stared" at by him - or get "looks."
That's what I get in work from this one person.  She told me
I could do something that would help me out - and turned around
the next week and "told on me" right in front of me and the other
employee in the room at the time.  A week or so later I talked
frankly with my supervisor about the situation and I'm in the clear.
But I couldn't believe this person.  And they have chosen to not
talk to me and "ignore" me - and I even thought about talking
   about it here on the onelist  - as it was bothering-
    and still bothers me... But with friends likeher.....
It's just, for me, makes being in that room very uncomfortable.
And that's what one of my co-workers said - she's black - and she
says "You understand now?  Sometimes people think it's their
mission in life to make your life miserable."
  I'm suing her for defamation.
    No, I'm not.
  I  just did what I suggest you do - - - -
One day, while leaving work, while walking by their car,
   get out your keys and find a nice strong one.
Hold it waist high while walking alongside the car and...
   - only kidding!
  But wouldn't it feel good?
In all honesty I sometimes fantasize about leaving where I am and
working somewhere else.  But everywhere you go there are idiots
- and I'll bet I've been an "idiot" for someone else at times.
I think it's a good lesson for me - it just isn't pleasant right now
that I'm right in the middle of it.  It raised my blood pressurefor
      heaven's sake!
But what it is - and I remember her saying - you see where we
work is "special" and not many people get there - and they want it
just the way they want it - and a white guy with a pony tail maybe
   doesn't fit in to their dream place.
     C'est la vie.
       I'm staying.
BTW - the owners showed their seriousness in handling the situation
by firing that guy as soon as they found out the problem.  Thisshows
they are concerned and do take right ways to act.  If they wouldhave
known about stuff and let it go - it would look worse in court hadit
gone that route.
Evidently, they value this guy's input, so he's still in the mix.
Be thankful they found it appropriate he not be your boss.
They are saying, by their actions - the man was wrong - and they
value you enough to keep you, too.  (Unless they're just scared...)
The other concern - or what I'm think about - ever hear of
"gas lightning?"  I think it's called that because of it's origin.
A fellow tried to drive a woman crazy - as the story goes.
They've actually got whole books dedicated to playing dirty
tricks on people to mess up their lives.  (I should know - I've
got one!)

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Message: 20
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:57:43 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chicken; retaliation? Sue?

In a message dated 12/2/2000 8:19:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tpierron@Op.Net writes:

<< hen again - if you had  a good  case, and right now I'd say you don't - just the fact he putsomething there  to listen in on you -and can you now prove it?  And who would be a witness onyour behalf? >>

I still have the pictures of the device, statements from a few witnesses, the
letter of his termination and the letter of his rehire.  Thereare two
witnesses who would be willing to testify to the problems.
Cindy.
 

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Message: 21
   Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:24:15 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: inflation

How is that a "booming" economy?!     It's inflationrun amuck
From:  Owen
        Dear Tom
    Correct.
       Inflation is defined as an increasein the money supply which can lead to
higher prices.  If you look in the Friday NY Times financial section there is a
little box (3" x 5") called "monetary aggregates".  It shows theamount and
growth of M1, M2, and M3.  M3 is all the money (currency, bankaccounts, bankers
acceptances, etc.) in the country.
        You can have inflation whether or not prices are going up.  So govt lies
about the CPI are less important than accurate info about the moneysupply.
When there is inflation in the stock market, nobody complains.

TP:Is anyone familiar with "The Creature From Jekyll Island?"
OC:Yes.  I read it and I recommend it!
TP:It is NOT federal - and it is NOT a reserve - [it is] a bank.
OC:It is a banking cartel.  According to Sen Dorgan (D-Dakota),"if any other
business did this there would be a hue and cry about anti-trust violations."
TP:How on earth can they run out of money when all they [have to] dois keep the
presses running?
OC:They're a little more slick about it now:  They use checkingaccts and
computers.  Hardly anybody carries more than $100 with them.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
  How about the other big lie - -
  "our BOOMING economy"
  Gimme a break.  A booming economy is the 1950's when aman
  could go to work, the wife stay at home and there was some
  abundance.
  Today, husband and wife must both go to work and still can't
  make ends meet.  How is that a "booming" economy?!
  It's inflation run amuck.
  I think the next four years will be worse.  Whoever endsup in the
  oval office will shoulder the blame.  Even though it hasnext to
  nothing to do with him and more to do with Alan Greenspan.
  Is anyone familiar with "The Creature From Jekyll Island?"
  I've never read it - but the truth is about the "Federal Reserve."
  There's another big oxy ya moron.
  It is NOT federal - and it is NOT a reserve - a bank.
  It's a place that prints paper that they deem money.  Itmay as well
  be toilet paper.  The government talks about running outof money.
  How on earth can they run out of money when all they do is keep
  the presses running?  It's two cents per piece - no matterif it's a
  one dollar bill, a five, ten, twenty or a hundred dollar bill.  The
  cost is two cents per piece of paper.  And pumping allthis money
  is what is none as "inflating" and you know the result of that?
  The dollar is worth less and less.  Just another way "they"steal
  from us.
  If it's not absconding the numbers from our pay check -
  it's devaluing our savings.  In other words - you can savethousands.
  But the thousands you save today won't be worth that ten - twenty
  years from now.  It is not inconceivable that they'll beworth half
  as much.  And so your money has been stolen, really, bottomline.
  Remember when a "millionaire" was considered set for life?
  Hey, could be for me....

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Message: 22
   Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 00:18:19 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: inflation

I was hoping at least you would have heard echoes of what
I was referring to - but you've outdone me - you read the
book.  I'm impressed.  Also, I've heard a lot of stuff -and
I just don't get into it.  All this political, economic, and whatever
else gets depressing at times.  No one's got the market "cornered"
on what's really going down.  Though Irv was the best I've ever
heard.  Like, what does the CFR do?
But we'll never know for sure.  I like what I heard "trickle down
economics" - they actually tell us they're going to wiz on us. Or,
to put it another way - the rich and all get corporate welfare
while some crumbs fall off the table - that's ours!  Go buy
a case of beer, get drunk, and don't worry you're stinking poor
and we're filthy rich......
It's those with money do - and we
live with the consequences. (It feels good to vent now)
Case in point - here in Philly.  I didn't vote for the mayor that'sin
office now.  And I don't see how anyone with sense would - and
yet - this is our mayor.
They had like 5 places suggested to build a new stadium in Philly.
Chinatown was one of the choices - which seemed very silly to
me - I mean, why was it even on the list?
I'll tell you why - that's the one the present mayor finally decidedon.

Why?
Because those with money make the decisions - (of course he won't
admit that.)
But  a couple people who contributed money to his campaign own
land right there where they were talking about building.  Andthey
just built a huge hotel there called Hawthorn Suites.  A verytall
hotel building.
Chinatown was outraged that they now want a stadium too.
I was outraged.  Do you realize the only thoroughfare going throughthat
area is the Vine Street Expressway? How would they handle the traffic?
Anyway - the mayor kept pushing that area for months while the rest
of the city scratched its head - and Chinatown went to court.
And the mayor still pushed it.
There was a good article in one of the City Papers about how
- oh, it was racial stuff, and how the blacks are now "in" and
we can now dump on the Orientals by putting a stadium in
their front yard even though they're against it.
I don't know if anyone came to their senses, but they did
finally decide to build the new stadium - and one for the Eagles
too in South Philly on  empty lots next to the existing Veteran's
Stadium.  Only logical.
Other sites were fairly logical.
Chinatown was out of the question - except when it came
to those with money and those who were in charge and had
the say.
Sickening, as far as I'm concerned.
But don't blame me - I didn't vote for the guy -
and I can't believe anyone else did!
BTW - the fed had their first IRS audit - probably ever.
They were running around trying to make things look normal,
if you know what I mean..............

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Message: 23
   Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 00:28:34 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Chicken; retaliation? Sue?

Is it worth it to go through the hell you'll have to go through?
It may be - from the way you're talking - you do have a case - and
it's not sitting right with you - and it's not really settled, apparently.
From these few words we've exchanged I can't say definitely one
way or the other.  But I can't blame you for thinking about it-
   and perhaps it is the route you should take.
You must decide if it's best for you and the consequences will
bear out your decision.  I mean, will this make life better for
you or worse?  It does sound like there's a good chance you
won't feel your life is better unless you do do what is right and
     catch this jerk now before he does moredamage.
I don't want you to write anything on e-mail that may jeopardize
your case.  Apparently you do have one - and the jerk deserves
it.  It's just - it could also make life more miserable for youthan
it appears to be now.  You know, like the rape victim being
put on the stand and portrayed as - a - woman with no virtues.
  You are a woman with virtues - do the right thing.
      Whatever it is.  It's yourcall.
      Consider this "support."  Is there a "statute of limitations"
on pressing charges?

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 501
Date:  4 Dec 2000 11:20:57 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 06:26:17 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: http://www.allgore.com/

All Gore - Presidential Campaign 2000http://www.allgore.com/
 
                  Click here to advertise on our site
 
                        This day in Gore history for Sunday, December 3, 2000
                        1985 - Martians invade Al's toaster.

 
 
           It's Over.
           Let me begin by thanking you for supporting me. Not just during this
campaign but also throughout the last quarter-century that I have beenfeeding
from the government trough.

            Ilost. There's no other way to say it. I'm really sorry I was such
a baby about it, but you know, it really hurts. I thought the handcounting
trick was going to do it for me, but I suppose America has gotten abit smarter
since the impeachment trial.

            Inshort, I am sorry for the three weeks of utter BS I've put
everyone through. I promise that when I run in 2004, I will steal thevotes
ahead of time so as to not inconvenience everybody.
 

            Special thanks to the following:
           Remember my running-mate, Joe Lieberman? Right, he's the Senator who
changed his stance on every issue imaginable just to be on my ticket.That's
loyalty. You probably remember him from his days as Teller with themagic/comedy
act Penn and Teller

 
           As you may be aware, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
previously appeared on the NBC series Wings as Fay Cochrane.

 
           Another Hollywood castoff who now appears in the Clinton-Gore dope
show is Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers. Below is a photo ofhim now, and
as he appeared in Disney's Honey We Shrunk Ourselves.

 
           If you're a fan of the comedy Will and Grace, you may recognize the
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Donna Shalala. She portraysRosario,
Karen's Spanish-speaking housekeeper.

             Paidfor by All Gore.
           Copyright © 1900 All Rights Reserved
           Your privacy is important to us. Read our Privacy Statement
 
 
           fun games:
           Health Care Game
           Air War Over Kosovo

               Spill it:
              Enter Town Hall and let me know what this election means to you.
               (Leave your shoes on the porch: new carpet!)

 
 
 

     Goretopia    Environaut    Titters    Achievements    Socialized Medicine
     Town Hall    Links    Air War Over Kosovo    Healthcare 2002 Game

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:04:31 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GasLight

Tom, towards the end of this letter you commented
about
Gas lighting?  That is a movie called Gas Light
staring Ingred Bergman..and oldie in black and white.
The story goes, a man romances a woman and marries her
because he is after her jewels. He then tries to make
her think she is insane by turning down the gaslamps
and asking her why did she turn them down? He also
took things from her purse and accused her of loosing
the stuff...etc.
The movie was set in the Victorian age, a time period
where woman had little rights of their own and relied
solely upon their husbands for guidance, etc.  Women
were perceived as weak and helpless and needing
protection. Ingrid played the part of a very weak
minded woman who nearly came apart, until--"Of Course"
the boyfriend rescued her....
A story by which I can relate easily...Questions?
By all means please ask, and don't be afraid I need to
have someone ask me some questions..It's weird
otherwise.

CK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:05:02 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GasLight

Tom, towards the end of this letter you commented
about
Gas lighting?  That is a movie called Gas Light
staring Ingred Bergman..and oldie in black and white.
The story goes, a man romances a woman and marries her
because he is after her jewels. He then tries to make
her think she is insane by turning down the gaslamps
and asking her why did she turn them down? He also
took things from her purse and accused her of loosing
the stuff...etc.
The movie was set in the Victorian age, a time period
where woman had little rights of their own and relied
solely upon their husbands for guidance, etc.  Women
were percieved as weak and helpless and needing
protection. Ingrid played the part of a very weak
minded woman who nearly came apart, until--"Of Course"
the boyfriend rescued her....
A story by which I can relate easily...Questions?
By all means please ask, and don't be afraid I need to
have someone ask me some questions..It's weird
otherwise.

CK
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:10:14 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chicken head

I like what Tom wrote, he hit it on the nail.
It is sad about the way our society has become so
"SUE"
minded. I guess some people have learned to scrape
through life. I prefer to follow, "Trust in the Lord,
and He will be your Guide.." People make mistakes.
Some perceive you as a pushover when you don't
retaliate and will continue to, until you "do"
something.

CK

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   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:01:43 EST
   From: mgriffo@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chicken head

At my daughter's school they don't let the kids run in the school yard or do
many of the rough and tumble activities I remember, with much fondness,doing
at her age.  It's all because they are afraid of lawsuits.

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Message: 10
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:04:30 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Chicken head /lawsuits
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Cindy
       I work in a union shop, and therule here is "we don't 'rat' on each
other".  If there are other more creative, or more direct methodstry them.
Going to the shop steward, or co-workers would be better than goingto
management (according to this view).

     I've gone to small claims court over $ &contracts, but I can't imagine
going to court over personal stuff.

    Doesn't going to court take forever & take $?

        There have to be more creative ways of dealing with this jerk.  How do
you feel about slapping him?  Would he hit back if you did thisin full view of
your co-workers?

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 11
   Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 16:34:27 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: re: Cindy to sue or not to sue.. that is the ??

A case like this - get a lawyer on a contingency basis only.

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Message: 12
   Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 16:38:56 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

Yes - that's it - trying to drive someone nuts by doing stuff
behind their back and pretending you had nothing to do with it.

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Message: 13
   Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 16:41:53 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Chicken head

> At my daughter's school they don't let the kids run in the schoolyard or do
> many of the rough and tumble activities I remember, with much fondness, doing
> at her age.  It's all because they are afraid of lawsuits.
>

Someone should sue the school because their daughter never
got to experience a skinned knee at recess......
 
 

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  Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:56:49 EST
   From: mgriffo@aol.com
Subject: Re: look at this

Mike...where is COBU's website?  I only have their Haiti websiteaddress.
That young woman in the picture looks a whole lot like Jennifer Kuhnin her
younger days...although my guess is that this is the daughter of oneof the
older timers.  This picture made me laugh as it makes them looklike they do
normal things...like when does the average member ever get a vacation
anywhere?
 

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Message: 17
   Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:21:16 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: re: Jim update

In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:12:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cstutts@kih.net writes:

<< I really want to grow old, but I hope and pray that I don'tgo nuts in the
process.... >>

I found this comment slightly humorous.  I never wanted to growold until
now, because most of my kin are absolutely nuts, LOL!
Cindy.
 

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Message: 20
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:08:55 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Media Bias

            Iwatch TV, and except for Fox, it's all-Al-all-the-time, so I have
a few questions about the coverage of the media's monthlong telethonfor the man
who invented the Internet.

            For instance, how come, when the Florida Legislature has 58
Democrats among its 160 members, it's always referred to as
``Republican-dominated,'' which it is, but the Florida Supreme Court,which
includes zero Republicans, is never called ``Democrat-dominated''?

            How come when the Republican Legislature says it will follow the
Constitution as written it's a ``partisan political ploy,'' but whenthe Florida
Supreme Court turns the law upside down to give Al Gore an extra 12days to
steal the election, it's an impartial judiciary just doing its job?

            How come it's not ``hate speech'' when Bill Maher says on national
TV Thursday night that as the country watched the Ryder van with thePalm Beach
ballots moving up the Florida turnpike, ``For a few brief moments,America held
the hope that O.J. Simpson had murdered Katherine Harris''?

            And how come it isn't ``mean-spirited'' when Craig Kilborn
freeze-frames a picture of George W. Bush with a caption that says``Snipers
Wanted''?

            Probably for the same reason that it was permissible during
impeachment for reputed actor Alec Baldwin to mention it might be agood idea to
stone Rep. Henry Hyde and his family to death.

            Ifyou're a Beautiful Person from Hollywood and you suggest lynching
Republicans, that's fair comment under the First Amendment. If you'rea
Republican and you live within 300 miles of a lynching, you may aswell have
personally knotted the rope.

            How come looking into the sex life of Bill Clinton, when it involves
perjury, obstruction of justice and sexual harassment, is ``the politicsof
personal destruction,'' but, as Laura Ingraham noted, trying to digup dirt on
Katherine Harris' sex life is investigative journalism?

            How come when Bill Clinton gets 60 percent approval for anything
it's a ``mandate'' but when 60 percent of the country wants Al Goreto throw in
the towel the caption at the bottom of the screen is ``The Nation Divided''?

            How come George Bush has an MBA from Harvard Biz and he's a moron
and Al Gore ``dropped out'' of Vanderbilt Law School and he's a genius?

            How come no one on TV can mention Katherine Harris without remarking
on the fact that she worked in the Bush campaign, but outside a handfulof
newspapers, no one ever points out that Florida attorney general BobButterworth
was chairman of Al Gore's campaign in the Sunshine State?

            How come so few media outlets picked up the Miami Herald story that
hundreds, probably thousands, of ex-cons illegally cast ballots inFlorida?

            How come, after the Republicans lost their bid to convict Bill
Clinton of high crimes and misdemeanors in the Senate, the left wingIvy League
chattering skulls said as one that it was time for America to ``moveon.''

            But now, even after Al Gore has lost recount after recount, you
could forfeit your invitation to Renaissance Weekend by suggestingthat it's now
time for America to ``move on.'' How come, on election night, Al Gore``won''
states but they always ``fell'' to George Bush?

            How come it's always germane to point out that seven of the nine
members of the U.S. Supreme Court were appointed by Republican presidents (even
though at least two of them have since flipped sides), but it's noteven worth
10 seconds to say that basically all seven Florida jurists were appointed by
Democrats?

            Why does no one ever mention that one of the Florida justices is so
ignorant that during one hearing he referred to the ``Electorial College''?

            How come all the Gore rumpswabs in the press keep referring to the
Seminole County case as involving ``ballot tampering,'' when actuallyit's
applications for ballots? And why do you have to go to Florida newspapers to
find out that the judge hearing the case had her campaign do exactlythe same
thing when she was running?

            All in all, this campaign of disinformation is just what you'd
expect from these sleazeballs, and it's only going to get worse beforetheir
hero Al gets the job he so richly deserves - ambassador to Chad.
 
 
 
 
 

             `Holiday' now too Christian for PC crowd
             America tired of `more mush from the wimp'
             Shoot! Deer hunters' logic still makes no sense
             Gender benders are next in line for victimhood

  Talk back to Howie Carr

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________________________________________________________________________
 
 
Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 502
Date:  5 Dec 2000 02:35:00 -0000

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Message: 7
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:47:04 EST
   From: Symmetor@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 499

In a message dated 12/2/00 2:18:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sharpen@egroups.com writes:

<< OWEN  wrote  -   My study of preterismis frustrating, because (while it
 exposes weakness in futurism) it is (or seems to be) full ofholes itself.
>>

Dear Owen:
     All holes are filled by the conclusion thatthe scriptural written
reports are all intended to be figurative of things which cannot bewritten.
Neither was there any other way for them to have been represented inpower
except in physical reality and in history.

                                            - Neil
 

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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:29:36 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

you are funny, tom.  however i must concur that many great oneshave been
born in november.  wonderful month.  duane allman?  i have always been
most impressed with those december people too though.  just gotback from
NJ and jackies' wedding.  it was just great.  even john likedit and he's
not much on ceremonies of any kind.  got tired of them as a youthi think
plus he's just one of those personalities.  saw tom andlinda hutton and
rich and dawn candy and nancy walijeski and nil & noemi willisand dave
& karen poli.  stayed with the huttons,and their 4.  we had a great time.
ellen

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Message: 9
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:51:57 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: look at this

is it linda's daughter, celeste?  she would be about 18 or 19 right now
and she's still there.  blonde, blue eyes.  can't see thepicture.  love,
ellen

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Message: 10
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:23:27 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: look at this

> They are selling the Mickey's as antiques. I don't think the picturewas
> shot in D-land....probably shot in Scranton at the big warehouse.They are
> boasting that it is the biggest antique warehouse in the country.Why
> doesn't God collapse that building?
>

I understand the sentiments, and then again I don't.  Why doesn't
God stop bingo games?  Why doesn't God stop boxing?  Why
doesn't God collapse porno shop buildings?
And how does"To subvert a man in his cause the Lord does not approve."
fit in?I had last week off.  I thought of taking my camera up to Scranton
and seeing what I could see up there - hoping no one would
recognize me and maybe I  could find a few things out.
But I did other stuff.  Scranton's a long ways up in PA.
      A lot of time to invest in a lark.
Last time I was near the compound I drove by.  They had
orange signs up saying "Keep moving" and "don't stop."
     Er, maybe that was some other compound....
The lights were on in the "dorms" all the way at the other
end down by where the funeral home is - where they still park
a few limos.  Place reminds me of the Adam's family.
  "They're creepy and they're kooky...."
       Yes, that was me...

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Message: 11
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:37:11 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Poets

I love what Griffiths told me happened to him - and I "used" it on my
       brother once - - -
Griffiths said after laboring very hard he finally got a point acrossin
the argument he was having with some girls from west Philly.
His argument finally decided and solidified the undaunted sisters
simply put their hands on the their waists  while defiantly tilting
  their heads and asked simply:
    "So what's your point?!"
(My brother sent me an email about all these things that were
going on and why he had to do what he was doing and I simply
  replied - "So what's your point?"
I told him this story Griffiths told me later.  I mean his emailwas
  like 5 pages long!)
Gimme that "old time religion" doesn't fly like it used to.
That is why I, for the longest time, have considered where we are
now to be tribulation such as the world has never seen until now...
I mean, that was years ago - with all the technology and all - addto
that now the information age and the internet - we are a different
human race.  And yet, is the world, the flesh and the devil really
different?  That's what I mean by the tribulation now is suchas has
never been seen before - in certain ways - perhaps availability.
It's hard to put any chink in the armor that's been built these days.
That's one thing that I think is so great about this election mess.
It shows how untogether 'civilization' really is and the futility ofthe
    flesh to straighten it out.
I haven't noticed anyone quoting Shakespeare lately.  "First...."

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Message: 12
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:48:11 EST
   From: Symmetor@aol.com
Subject: American Freedom

From:  Owen
>         Dear All
>        The greatest experimentin liberty has
> already been undermined.  The public ought not to
> put their confidence in it.  I want to see public
> complacency undermined.
>         I don't hate my country or blame it for all
> the trouble in the world, but it needs strong
> medicine and its leaders are dangerous.

     Yes, and it seems to increasingly escape theunderstanding of Americans
that their 'freedom' was supposed to amount to a secure, individualpersonal
sovereignty, a happy exemption from the innately intrusive and
self-preservative impulses of GOVERNMENT.

                     - Neil
 

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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:17:55 -0500
   From: Eric Fetterolf <fetterof@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Daily Press Chicken head found in wing box.htm]

Could be, but I doubt it I got it from a reliable source.  Plus,Jay
leno mentioned it also!

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Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:37:57 -0500
   From: Eric Fetterolf <fetterof@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Chicken head

Does you company have a policy on harassment?
Talk to a lawyer about the feasibility of such an action.
It may have different outcomes than you would expect...
Eric

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Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:42:04 -0800 (PST)
   From: Dee Law-Jones <Musicheaven@yahoo.com>
Subject: Cindy - the price of justice

Hi Cindy -

What exactly would be the basis of your lawsuit?
Unless you have an extremely solid case, you'll
probably have a difficult time in court - if you ever
make it to a court room.  Do you have anything
documented (times, dates, places, people involved,
alleged offenses, etc.?).  Even if you have witnesses
to the alleged offenses, how reliable are the
witnesses - especially if their jobs will be put on
the line for helping you?

Also, how much "justice" can you afford?  If you don't
have a nice chunk of change sitting around, you might
want to think twice about suing.  Believe me, it costs
a lot of money, time, and energy.  And, you could get
blacklisted in your field or work (btw, what do you
do?)

I sued some folks in 1990 over alleged mismanagement
of church funds.  We finally settled out of court
three or four years later.  We settled not because we
got "justice" but because the class action members
were broke - we just couldn't afford to pursue it any
longer.  My lawyer was relatively inexpensive.  But
the court costs combined with the lawyer fees...whew!
The organization had much deeper pockets than we had
and their lawyer purposely drove up our expenses by
filing a million and three unnecessary motions which
our lawyer had to answer and contest and file motions
to dismiss the other lawyers motions, etc. etc. etc.
Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!  (Can you hear the
sucking sound of your hard earned money going down the
drain into a bottomless pit????  Everytime a motion is
filed, a phone call is made, a deposition is
taken...you've got to pay...by the hour!  Does that
strike "fear" in your heart???)

So, we finally agreed to an out of court settlement.
Was it worth it?  In my case it wasn't.  The whole
experience was a nightmare...very stressful.  If I had
it to do over, I would go to the TV station and let
them do the investigating, etc., though this may not
be an option for you.

Am I trying to discourage you from suing?  Most
definitely...Absolutely! Because, imho, unless you
have an extremely strong case, you will be fighting an
uphill battle that may not be worth the investment of
your time, energy, life, money, emotions, privacy,
etc. etc. etc.  Are you in a position where you can
get a different job?  I know that some fields are
highly specialized so that may not be an option
either.

Anywho...having said all of that...I will say that my
husband successfully sued the Air Force for medical
malpractice over the death of his first wife.  He had
no money but he had an extremely solid case so a
lawyer was willing to work with him.  The case never
actually went to trial...the Air Force settled out of
court.  I believe his "success" at suing the Air Force
is extremely rare...

So, it is possible...but unless you have a strong
conviction from God to pursue it in court, I wouldn't
do it.  :-(

- Dee

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Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:00:59 -0500
   From: Eric Fetterolf <fetterof@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: look at this

What is address of Scranton warehouse please.
Eric

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Message: 19
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:00:40 -0500
   From: Anthony LeDonne <tledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: look at this

Mike
I don't think it was at scranton cause if you saw the place you'llknow
that it isn't that neat even on the outside. The place looks very old&
like a junk yard doesn't look very organized at all.

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Message: 20
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:04:41 -0500
   From: Anthony LeDonne <tledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: look at this

Eric
its across the street from the high school stadium on Providence rdbehind
the Glider Diner & a car wash.

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Message: 21
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:00:06 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: look at this

> Eric
> its across the street from the high school stadium on Providencerd behind
> the Glider Diner & a car wash.
>

Cobu gives directions on their site - Olde Good things - the
Scranton Warehouse - last time I looked - which is six months
        to a year ago.
They had pictures and it reminded me of John's stuff he's got stored-
  and it was organized - molding here - mantels there - etc.
But by now, they probably are getting crowded and disorganized
and crazier just as the Woodland Ave. house eventually got boarded
up - and the warehouse on 62nd street started to look more and
 more like Sanford & Son than anything neat, clean, sweptand
in order.  That's the way it always goes.  I can see KevinBrowne
   sweating now, and yelling at the underlings: "Urgent;urgent!"
     I saw it first hand at South Street abouttwo years ago.
       Perfect Stewart clone.
 
 

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Message: 24
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:27:08 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Limo's are "not us"

Limo's for their funeral parlor neighbors across the street.
 
 
 

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Message: 25
   Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:35:12 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: photo op time

Liberal media?  On the only talk radio station left here in town
   it's a Bush love feast from noon till eight o'clock.
And someone quoted someone who said "Show me a reporter
     that isn't biased and I'll fire 'im."
Of course every one has their leanings.  Some people boo-hoo
all the liberals.  There's plenty of conservatives and plentyof
whatever else you want to call what ever you want to call 'em.
The news business is more into entertainment than into news and,
as Jesse Ventura said - they should just be up front and admit it.
      Ratings rule.
If you want to get into facts, you're better off with looking into
Matt Drudge or Worldnetdaily - but they're slanted too, aren't they?
    Everyone is!  It's called diversity ofopinions.
I really don't understand the cry babies worried about Craig Kilborn
and Bill Maher.  There's enough to go around all ways.  Don'tmake
me talk the trash on the other side!

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________________________________________________________________________
 
Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 503
Date:  5 Dec 2000 11:12:36 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:23:44 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

He then tries to make her think she is insane by turning down the gaslampsand
asking her why did she turn them down?
From:  Owen
        Dear CK
       I thought when she asked why heturned down the gaslamps, he claimed that
they weren't turned down.  Or he turned them back up and thenclaimed that they
were never turned down.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 504
Date:  6 Dec 2000 11:15:36 -0000

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Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:32:55 -0000
   From: "John Apostle" <japostle@angelfire.com>
Subject: Merry Christmas!
 
 

There is no furniture so encumbering as a fallen idol; we trip over
it a dozen times a day. --Howard Overing Sturgis
 

Merry Christmas everyone, and happy New Year!

JA
 
 

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Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:59:32 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

hi, john.  how are you?  haven't heard from you in such along time.
hope you and yours are all well.  and a merry christmas to youtoo.
ellen

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Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 19:07:06 -0000
   From: "John Apostle" <japostle@angelfire.com>
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

Nice of you to remember.  My family is doing fine, thank Jesus;I'm
the weakest link in the chain, like usual.  I've been so busy
juggling various things that I haven't had time to log onto egroups.
I couldn't resist sending that quote when I ran across it, however,
for it brought to mind a lot of memories.  Hard to believe Christmas
is upon us again already.

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Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:33:32 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

Not only does it work both ways, but I see it clearly the
opposite way.  To me, it's obvious what's going on, and I
won't get into the particulars - it's not worth it.
I got one question - why are Bush's lawyers  afraid the
      votes would be counted - and in somecases recounted?
    That's normal procedure for a close election.

The most important thing will be seeing if the US Supreme Court -
whatever it is they have to decide, if they have to decide
        anything....
whether or not they ALL agree.  One way or the other -
as long as they all agree on their decision - whatever it is -
because otherwise - it'll just be more partisan stuff and
we've got enough of that all over the rest of the landscape.
As for dividing and anger - yes, there's a lot of that.
And I feel there were be many residual effects.

I for one, even though the Eagles got beat Sunday - I must say
that I felt good for the veteran kicker  Al Del Greco or whatever
his name is.  He's a 38 year old veteran kicker.  The Eagleshad gone
ahead - but with 6 seconds left - (Del Greco, who  had choked
recently and lost two games for the Super Bowl Titans) he had
to kick a 50 yarder in the cold.  I was hoping he would choke
and the Eagles would win.
He didn't choke - he came through.  And as disappointed I was
that the Eagles lost, at least the veteran showed what he's made
of and did a good job.  I suppose it doesn't hurt so much because
all the Eagles have to do is win one more game and they're in the
playoffs.  To almost beat the Super Bowl Titans - the Eagles have
landed.  The point is to not be a sore loser or a gloating winner.
Back to reality.  Or is it reality?  Anyway - one thing thatI have
thought about - and I'm sure the Feds are thinking about - if I'm
as upset as I am about what's going on with all this stupidity - what
about those who are outright nuts when it comes to government
conspiracies and all the rest of it?  I  mean are we in forsome more
Arlington Roads?
BTW - that should be mandatory viewing - Arlington Road -
with Jeff Bridges and Tim Robbins.  See what the newspapers would
tell you about the "facts" and see what really went down.  Scary.
As I was saying - as upset as I am - I won't do anything stupid.
But I think there's a portion of this population - I don't know how
large or small - but it won't take much to push them over the edge
of reason and they will indeed do something stupid.
That's something we may all have to be concerned with.
This was a subject I've been meaning to address - and there,
I did it.

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Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:55:36 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: right on about Dan Blather

I don't like to write a lot (I really don't!)
You're right on about pout faced Dan Blather.
First let me say, last night, I don't know which CNN or what
channel was on - but they were talking about the votes and the
judge and all - and the woman commentator said,
"(Something about the votes and counting) and house sales and
something else indicate a recession ahead and Bush's tax plan
would help ease the pain." end of her report....
Something like that.
My first reaction was - well hurry up and get Bush in there,
because I would like my taxes lowered!
And then it hit - what on earth did she slip that statement into a
report about the latest on the votes?!  Talk about partisan/bias....
It's like all the other issues - the President isn't going to raiseor
lower taxes.  He's going to sit at a desk and sign what the clowns
in Washington write up - you know, all those lawyers called
"congressmen."
But anyway - Dan Blather -
When I was in a writing class at Temple in 1995 the teacher was
talking about something and having integrity and he mentioned a
couple names - one of them was Dan Rather.  I said I wouldn't
consider his one of the names that should be on that list.
The teacher asked why and I told him about the tennis incident
a few years previous - where Dan was supposed to do the nightly
news - but the tennis match had run long, and they told Dan to wait.
Well Dan was incensed and demanded to go on the air when the
news was supposed to go on!
So they finally did cut to Dan only to see the empty desk.
Dan had walked off in a huff.
And it's a shame - sometimes one event can label you for life.
This teacher wasn't aware of it, and I don't think anyone at Temple
is aware of anything but being PC and making sure we all know
George Washington owned slaves.  Believe me.  My black girl
friend went there the next year.  She couldn't stand the blackteacher
she had, she was so prejudiced (the teacher) but anyway, I got off
track.....
But every time I look at Dan - and I hadn't thought about this event
consciously as I did  now and now I remember why.... when I look
at Dan he always looks like he's ready to cry and pout.
He did the other night, eh?   Not surprised!
I prefer Jennings also.  He's a liberal, you know - they all are.
Jenning's father was a reporter too - up in Canada I think.
 
 

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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:04:00 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Rocky And Bullwinkle
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Folks
       On sat I saw the movie "RockyAnd Bullwinkle".  It's about a villain
("Fearless Leader") who is trying to use really bad TV to turn Americansinto
mindless zombies, so that they will elect a Commie agent for President.
        Where do they get such absurdideas???

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:42:54 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: pollwatching 96
 

From:  Owen
        Dear ?
       In 1996 I was a pollwatcher inthe Bronx for the Dole campaign.  I want
to point out some interesting irregularities that I recorded: I say this to put
into context the shrill rhetoric that accompanies the dispute overless than 1%
of the vote in Florida.
        There were 8 voting boothsin a school cafeteria which were for 8
election districts.  Each voting booth had a Public Counter number.  Every time
someone voted the counter number increased by one.  I recordedthe Public
Counter numbers on all 8 machines.  One machine started in themorning with
15329 and ended the night with 15666.  So 337 people voted atthat machine.
When we tallied the votes for each of the candidates (310 for Bill,19 for Dole,
11 for Perot, and 6 for others), the total added up to 346 which ismore than
the number of votes cast.  Out of 8 machines 3 of them were likethis.  The
other 5 had fewer votes cast for Prez than the Public Counter number.  In one
district 150 voted but only 141 voted for Prez.  Now when thevote total is
lower you can believe that some people were undecided (voted for allthe other
offices) and didn't vote for a Prez.  But when the total is higher,there is
something seriously wrong!!!    So in this one school2110 people cast 2188
votes (a 3.7% difference).
      (Out of 90+million votes cast nationwide.)
        The policeman there didn'tcare.  And the Dole people I called duly
noted it.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 505
Date:  7 Dec 2000 11:27:06 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:33:19 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

You are probably right!! (I tend to think backward and upside down)That is
part of my dyslexia and attention deficit. I still can't tell whichis left
and which is right--So don't ask me for directions- Please-

:)

CK

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Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:35:30 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

Dear Carol,
 

Well said about Gore!
 

CK

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Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:39:17 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

Tom,

How come you think they are afraid of a recount???

I got one question to that, Why are Gores lawyers so anxious  toDO a
a recount?

CK

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Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:47:32 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: pollwatching 96

There sure is!

Mary O'keefe would be one to consult with on that. She too was involved with
the Dole campaign, as she worked hard for the republican party. She
remembers, LOL and she was in West Palm Beach County, that they declaredBill
Clinton the winner before the poles were closed , and people were still
casting votes. In other words---They weren't even counting the votes,the
press just decided to run Clinton the Victor----I believe he cheated,How???
Well ask
Hillary..She probably knows.

ck

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Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:37:34 -0500
   From: "racoonrr" <racoon99@pnpa.net>
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

Hello Gas light ! I am not quite sure to whom I respond here,
however I am Darlene's husband John
Darlene has often made mention of that movie in jest.
That's why your post caught my eye.
She often say's, Don't trick me like that husband did in gas light,in order to
make,
me feel like I am going crazy. Of course I would never do such a thing(ha ha )

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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 21:41:40 -0500
   From: Eric Fetterolf <fetterof@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

John and Darlene:
check out www.ericfetterolf.com
eric

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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:11:16 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: humor
 

From:  Owen
        Dear
       AND FOR YOU FOOTBALL FANS

  The National Football League recently announced a new era.
  From now on, no offensive team names will be permitted. While
  the owners of the teams rush to change uniforms and such, the
  National Football League announced yesterday its name changes
  and schedules for the upcoming season that include:

  -->  The Washington Native Americans will host the New York
       Very Tall People on opening day.

  -->  Other key games include the Dallas Western-Style Laborers
       hosting the St. Louis Wild Endangered Species, and the
       Minnesota Plundering Norsementaking on the Green Bay
       Meat Industry Workers.

  -->  There are several key match ups, highlighted by the show
       down between the San FranciscoPrecious Metal Enthusiasts
       and the New Orleans Pretty GoodPeople .

  -->  The Atlanta Birds of Prey will play host to the Philadelphia
       Birds of Prey, while the SeattleBirds of Prey will visit the
       Phoenix Male Finches.

  -->  The Monday night game will pit the Miami Pelagic Percoid
       Food Fishes against the DenverUntamed Beasts of Burden.

  -->  The Cincinnati Large Bangladeshi Carnivorous Mammals will
       travel to Tampa Bay for a clashwith the West Indies Free
       Booters later in Week 9.

  -->  And the Detroit Large Carnivorous Cats will play the Chicago
       Large Mountain Mammals.

  -->  Week 9 also features the Indianapolis Young Male Horses at
       the New England Zealous Loversof Country.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:15:52 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

even though the Eagles got beat Sunday - I must say that I felt good for the
veteran kicker  Al Del Greco
From:  Owen
        Dear Tom
       Why didn't the Eagles demand arecount?

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 506
Date:  8 Dec 2000 12:54:55 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:38:48 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

This has to do with pigskins.
I was hoping the Eagles would win because this week,
as the week before - even though the Eagles were home
team - they had some very bad calls called against them.
Even the commentators on TV (FOX out of towners)
said they were bad calls - that's how bad they were.
They did, however, overcome the bad calls and beat
the Redskins.  They were only 6 seconds away from
beating the Titans - last year's AFC Superbowl entry.
As for recounting - or counting in the first place - that's
apples and oranges.  You know that a few days ago they
finally figured out who won the Senate race in Washington
state.  When you want to get it right, you take the time to
do it right.

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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:00:50 -0500
   From: "Walker, Michael S, PERSCOM" <walkerm@hoffman.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Liberal Media

The question: Why are Gores lawyers so anxious  to DO a recount?

I think it strange that the Gore lawyers argued that ballot countingshould
start immediately and then while counting, argue whether they shouldbe
included in the count. That is like a football team asking the refto allow
them to try a field goal just after time ran out; and then they could
discuss whether to allow the points.
Mike
 

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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:08:00 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media

This is so True Mike,

If you ever listened to Rush, you would  probably remember someof his
comments concerning the liberal democrats. They don't know how to playfair,
when they win they are happy but if they lose they cry foul play!
They are hypocritical, everyone has to play according to the rulesunless
they come up second. Then they cry and whine and want to change therules....

Gore agreed to the rules before he entered into this election, as didBush!
But I guess because they did not work in favor of Gore, he screamsNO FAIR,
and now he wants to change the rules around in his favor----SO he wins...

Very typical liberal democratic behavior- according to Rush!

CK

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:12:52 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: GasLight

In response to a movie, you got it Darlene!!! This is CK...How are you doing?
Haven't heard much from you and I really enjoy reading things you writeas do
I enjoy everyone's opinions on things!!!
Thank goodness we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all the trutheven if
it means--I AM crazy!---:)

CK

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:14:32 EST
   From: ckirbym@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Jim.. Physician update..

Hey Carol,

God Bless You Guys in these times of trouble, and trial. Life appearsas one
big battle to me at any count.
 

Love

CK

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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:26:44 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Jim.. Physician update..

thanks for the update, carol.  i will continue to pray for jim.  love,
ellen

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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:56:50 EST
   From: mgriffo@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Jim.. Physician update..

Carol...as you know, you have been in my thoughts and prayers. I truly hope
that the bonds you have as a family will make this time of year a joyfulone
for you despite what Jim (and all of you!) are facing.
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 507
Date:  9 Dec 2000 10:13:47 -0000

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:42:33 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: joke

/* For those seeking some kinda of finality in this political
mess... */

TALLAHASSEE, FL-A third recount by Florida election officials has
"definitively determined" that Green Party candidate, Ralph Nader,
was defeated in the state.

"There was a very significant 25,603-vote discrepancy between the
first two counts, with Nader losing by respective margins of
2,812,339 and 2,837,942, so we decided to conduct a hand recount,"
Florida Attorney General Jim Smith said.

"We now know that Nader lost by precisely 2,821,278 votes." It is
not yet known whether Nader lost to Gore or Bush.
 

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seenhis
glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, fullof
grace and truth" (Jn. 1:14).
Bob San Pascual

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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:05:04 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: UPDATE AND PICS

Hey, Mike, next time you're in New York, give me a call. I've got a
shoebox full of photos that you can have and put on the web site, if
you'd like.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seenhis
glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, fullof
grace and truth" (Jn. 1:14).
Bob San Pascual

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Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:10:56 -0800 (PST)
   From: Mike Montoya <mikemontoya2@excite.com>
Subject: Re: UPDATE AND PICS

Thanks Bob...will do...and if you want to mail them to our scann brother we
can do that too...i just sent Dave's photo album cross country andgot
everything back safe and sound...so if you want...

Maureen....here is the e-address of the "new" store on line for

http://www.ogtstore.com

mm

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Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:22:57 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: News Flash

In a message dated 12/8/2000 10:14:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cstutts@kih.net writes:

<<   News Flash!
 >   It's over..... Gore has won.  >>
With all the funning you've been having on Gore, I'd be surprised ifhe
doesn't win.  You know, everyone here is talking about how a president is due
to be assassinated (according to some numerology crap).  In thatevent, I
hope Gore doesn't win this election.
Cindy
 

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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:52:34 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: humor
 

From:  Owen
        Dear
       Daffynitions I

  Ratio of an igloo's circumference to its diameter: Eskimo Pi

  2.4 statute miles of intravenous surgical tubing at Yale
  University Hospital: 1 I.V. League

  2000 pounds of Chinese soup: Won ton

  1 millionth mouthwash: 1 microscope

  Speed of a tortoise breaking the sound barrier: Mach Turtle

  Time it takes to sail 220 yards at 1 nautical mile per hour:
  Knot-furlong

  365.25 days of drinking low-calorie beer because it's less
  filling:  1 lite year

  16.5 feet in the Twilight Zone: 1 Rod Sterling

  Half of a large intestine: 1 semicolon

  1,000,000 aches: 1 megahurtz

  Weight an evangelist carries with God: 1 billigram

  Basic unit of laryngitis: 1 hoarsepower

  Shortest distance between two jokes: A straight line

  Time between slipping on a peel and smacking the pavement:
  bananosecond

  A Half-Bath: 1 demijohn

  453.6 graham crackers: 1 pound cake

  Submitted by  Keith T.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
      Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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