Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 475
Date:  13 Nov 2000 05:46:39 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:40:07 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: tidings of great joy

nope this mike is not from cobu.  jackie is getting a non-cobu mate.
love,  ellen
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Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:26:12 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Flatland as the Ballpark

just wondering here.  who said the park was flatland to begin with?
that's interesting and all, but doesn't make a lot of sense-at least not
to me.  i wonder what abbott would think about that application of his
wonderful little land. ellen
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Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:49:38 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Final Karma

poor dear.  i will pray that you find an acceptable alternative.  there
must be other good talk radio out there.  i'll write more later.  have to
get ready cause i'm preaching tonight and have not got it all together in
my head yet.  it can be hard to get across virtually "foreign" ideas; you
should try teaching on intercessory prayer sometime.  what an experience.
 a lot of people have trouble with point A----being that If we don't
pray, things don't turn out quite right, but if we do, there is a
significant change.  they think that takes away from God's sovereignty or
something or that whatever happens will happen or other stuff that's not
in the Book.  i guess it would take away from His sovereignty except for
the fact the HE set it up that way!!!  so you can pray for me tonight
that on my 4th visit there, there will be some breakthroughs in practice.
 that would be wonderful.  it only takes one or two to have success for a
whole congregation to be set ablaze.  you know, i am not always sure what
you are standing for here.  hopefully at the next reunion, we will both
be there and we can talk.  i would like to do that with so many.  this
media is ok, but definitely has its limitations.  ellen
 

love,  ellen
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Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:57:05 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Philosophy 101 and Life 10???????

hooray for you, mary.  i am so glad.  just goes to show that the way we
think we are to people isn't always the way we really are.  i don't think
i said that exactly right, but you get the drift.  i hope you like the
job.  what will you be doing?  it would be great if it's something you
enjoy.  john always says he is blessed to be able to work as an
electronic technician because he really enjoys taking computers apart and
blowing the dust out of them, etc.  i think---yuccckkk!  but then look
what i do.  it would drive john bananas.  i'm glad for you.  love,  ellen
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Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:59:05 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Philosophy 101 and Life 10???????

Sister Mary,
Congrats and may the Lord give you success : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton

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Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:13:50 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: cool heads? who's counting?

Brother Sean,
Well said-excellent recap.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 8
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:26:26 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Re: the real reason

but you know.. maybe there's a reason for Stewie to hide out in Florida...
hmmmm
From:  Owen
        Dear Carol
       There's no income tax in FL.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 9
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:30:59 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: King for prez

he's 2 and we think he would be a great president. who here would support John
Ams for President in 2032? love,  Ellen
From:  Owen
        Dear Ellen
       Will he turn 35 in 2032?  That's a constitutional requirement.  Yet when
they made that requirement there was no minimum age for drinking or owning a
handgun.
        BTW make sure he doesn't do any drugs, drive drunk, kiss a classmate or
do anything that might become politically incorrect by 2036.  By then eating
beef might be politically incorrect.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 10
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:33:20 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert!
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Steve
Q)       What's worse than a KaK Worm virus?
A)       A patch from Microsoft!

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 11
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:21:32 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: just in case
 

From:  Owen
        Dear All
       I imagine that most of you already know: that there is a book out called
"Churches That Abuse" (and it has a sequel).  CBU is included in one of its
chapters, but it is profitable to see how similar we were with other churches.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 12
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:43:03 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: contrails
 

From:  Owen
        Dear Tom
       I recently noticed what you spoke of: "contrails that reached to the
horizon and lasted for hours".  These are clouds.  (Since both are made of
water, they share similarities in appearance.)  The difference is that (if you
look closely, you will notice that) these clouds aren't uniform, and aren't
really straight.  And they aren't caused by planes.
      On some days there are wispy clouds that form lines instead of balls.  (I
have a job where I'm outside for hours at a time.)

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 14
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:41:23 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: politics /rambling

In a message dated 11/12/2000 1:22:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cstutts@kih.net writes:

<< I have thought personally that if Gore was such a great leader, after
 serving 8 that is eight... did you hear me?  Eight (8) years as Vice-
 President he'd have won in a landslide. >>

I most definitely DISAGREE!
 

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Message: 15
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:45:25 EST
   From: CindyWG404@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: cool heads? who's counting?

In a message dated 11/12/2000 1:25:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cstutts@kih.net writes:

<< Didn't they publish the ballot in the paper?
 I say you all should call Jesse Jackson and his
 "rent a riot" and demand another opportunity
 to vote!! >>

I find this statement very offensive for many reasons, but anyway common
sense tells me to just acknowledge a portion of this post.  There are people
who do not get or read the newspapers, many (or most) of them are the elderly
who were a large portion of the voters; especially since Florida is
considered a retirement state by many.
Cindy.
 

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Message: 16
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:30:40 EST
   From: cbHIMtg@cs.com
Subject: Re: cool heads? who's counting?

Hi Steve, I agree with you. Here is some observations. If voting involves a
serious informed choice, why didn't they ask an election official to explain
it to them if they were confused about the ballot? No one denied them the
opportunity to do so. Perhaps pride played a part on those who were sincerely
confused. they didn't want to appear confused so they didn't ask. Why is it
that the ratio of those who voted for Gore that were confused by the ballot
is so much higher than those who voted for Bush? Is it  selected confusion? I
saw a rabbi on one of the news networks today say he was confused by the
ballot. This man seemed very intelligent & educated when he spoke, but he
claimed he didn't understand the concept of arrows from the candidate name
pointing to the punch hole. And this man is leading a congregation!!!! I
don't buy it.

                                                                Herm

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Message: 18
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:21:59 -0000
   From: n8vzl@freewwweb.com
Subject: Re: BBQ German Shepherd

Yeah I told them the MD said the dawg needs to be quarantined, but it
is an indoor dawg and only needs tied up when out doors. Same thing
here I know the folks and was assured all MD bills will be paid and I
trust them, but I sure ain't gonna bear false witness for them. They
need to rethink that angle.

brother ray

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Message: 19
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:25:19 -0000
   From: n8vzl@freewwweb.com
Subject: Re: BBQ German Shepherd

--- In sharpen@egroups.com, Tom Pierron <tpierron@O...> wrote:

> See, I did know, Charlie must introduce Toker (the dog's name)
> to everyone who comes through the door.  And the people Toker
> attacks most definitely are people in uniform or have something in
>  their hands.

Yep and I had a cordless screw-driver in hand.

brother ray
 
 
 

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Message: 20
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:31:39 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: contrails

Maybe they don't do it in your area.  They do it here almost daily.
Excuse me - I know a cloud from a contrail and a dissipating contrail.
Like I said, I see them just about daily.  I see them in the morning
getting out of my car and walking to work.  I see them on the way home from
work. Anyone who cares to look up in the sky can see the plane - the trail
turned on, and then turned off - and the trail that is left and lingers
and lingers.
They do it at different altitudes - and all of them behave differently -
but there are similarities.  I mean the ones closer to the ground tend
to break up and spread out as they slowly move across the sky.
I saw it when the plane left it there - and I watch it move for hours
across the sky.
Maybe you haven't seen a plane leaving a trail and what happens
afterwards.
If you see wisps or whatever in your sky - perhaps that is some cloud
or some form of precipitation.
In my neighborhood there's contrails just about daily.
Just look in the sky.
They're not every day - but just about.
A vapor trail vaporizes almost immediately - like the tail of a comet.
This contrails stay in the sky longer than sky writing.  Matter of fact,
sky writing doesn't last for more than ten to twenty minutes.  Contrails
last until you see them float over the horizon.
So you haven't seen first hand what I'm talking about and no one else
is talking about it.  But I know what I see in the sky - as far as white
trails being left by planes.
What is in these trails I do not know and the government though
repeatedly being asked isn't talking.  Are you getting nervous now?
Carol just passed along something that the person sending the message -
- which Carol isn't sure of - but the person sending the message thinks
some of these contrails contain stuff like Anthrax.  You know how the
government likes to do stuff and "see what happens."  Even if it may
put us in the hospital or in our graves.  It's all "in the name of
science." The clouds I'm talking about ARE caused by planes.  I saw them from
their inception.
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Message: 21
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:34:53 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Final Karma

>  you
> should try teaching on intercessory prayer sometime.  what an experience.

From what I understand very few are called to do this.  I'm glad
some people are.  It's comforting to know there's people praying.
 
 
 

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Message: 22
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:47:05 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: cool heads? who's counting?

Why is it
>that the ratio of those who voted for Gore that were confused by the ballot
>is so much higher than those who voted for Bush? Is it  selected confusion?
>

Herm,
I don't think so.  It's different being first or last--easier to pick out
the first or last hole to punch (correctly) than others.
 

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Message: 23
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:49:02 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Philosophy 101 and Life 10???????

Congratulations!
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Message: 24
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:53:21 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: BBQ German Shepherd

It should have been in your back pocket. :-)
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Message: 25
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:55:40 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: contrails

Tom,
Where else have you seen/read about these contrails?
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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 476
Date:  13 Nov 2000 10:00:06 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:26:28 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: spiritual body

At 01:49 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote:
 Well, that sounds good; but I
>think it’s an exercise in futility to pursue this line of thought.  After
>all, we’re talking about a miraculous event!  We’re talking about a physical
>body that has been dead for three days!  We are outside the parameters of
>ordinary expectations all the way around!  How do we know what may or may
>not be reasonable to expect under such circumstances, so that we might draw
>definitive conclusions about the nature of his resurrected body?  I just
>don’t think this is the kind of thing we are supposed to draw conclusions
>about.

>Mark, I agree with this part totally.  Lazarus was resurrected, as were
others during Jesus' ministry and at his death.  They would die again, but
He wouldn't.
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Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:40:19 -0000
   From: n8vzl@freewwweb.com
Subject: Acquire the Fire

--- In sharpen@egroups.com, John P King <jpkinghome@j...> wrote:
> ACQUIRE THE FIRE IS PRETTY GOOD STUFF.  IT BLESSED ALL MY BOYS AS
THEY GREW UP.  A CHRISTIAN ALTERNATIVE TO THE ROCK CONCERT SCENE.  THEY
> USUALLY CAME BACK SERIOUS AND FOCUSED.  THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE 16-
18 ALTHOUGH ANDY WENT TO ONE WHEN HE WAS 13 AND IT BROUGHT FORTH GOOD
FRUIT. IT LARGELY DEPENDS ON HOME THOUGH IN THE LONG RUN.
>  LOVE,  ELLEN
 

My daughter was not too happy. She said it was a screaming contest.
Also her brother was being a brat with other brats. Looks like it was
a way for parents to dump off 8K kids. Sara said it was her intent to
worship, but it was impossible. She said that one of the speakers had
introduced some secular musicians work to show the kids what kind of
lyrics they were listening to and the crowd went wild and I guess
they presented In Sync and what they represent and again the crowd
went wild and the wildness was not for Jesus, but rather even a
slight mention on the secular bands caused outbreaks.

Although it sounded as though they pointed out what these groups were
all about, but it sounded as though it was out of control. I remember
Sara attending other excursions with the AoG and she came back
changed. This was with a local Praise Fellowship in town where Sara
and Frank are in their youth fellowship. I guess I see my son as
someone that uses the right attitude when it best serves him. He has
changed recently, but I guess dad sees it as ...He's learning not to
be on the wrong side of the giver of life in his realm, namely me. I
see him going though the motions just like some other folks we
probably all know a few of hehe. What I really see in my son ...
is...
..........
..............
Me!
 

                              y
                             a
                            r

                          r
                         e
                        h
                       t
                      o
                     r
                    b
 
 
 

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Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:48:23 -0000
   From: n8vzl@freewwweb.com
Subject: GaC

I was gonna write that, and I was gonna write this, but my sister
Carol and my brother Tom pulled the rug out from under me. I needed a
good slappin and it really took me a day even after writing "I have a
confession to make". That was a poor confession, even I can see that
tonight, err or is it this morning. I've been in the archives
rereading Tom's replies to the "Re:On becoming Catholic Roman
whatevers". I had been roaring in the wrong house. Hailing about a
religion when had I thought when I was in the FF I wudda came to her
defense wrong or knot, like brother Tom said his heart was on right
he was listening to the wrong leaders is all, as did I, as did all of
us that were a part of it. As for the RC being the great whore, I was
referring to a web-page where I had visited, and really did not mean
it as a statement, and said that at the time. I said :

<snip>It has been said that the RC is the great whore, but I see them
as much more sinister. <snip>found in message#7036

But that is not what is important to me now, I plead Guilty As
Changed.
I for one need an advocate with the Father. I can't help it I make
mistakes, I am getting better, but I still mess up.
I still need a Savior, I still need the Blood, I still need King
Jesus, I still need forgiven, I still need my brothers and sister,
but above all I need my Lord, King, Savior, Jesus Christ the
Righteous.

Amen

brother ray
 
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 477
Date:  13 Nov 2000 21:37:59 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:27:25 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: contrails

> Tom,
> Where else have you seen/read about these contrails?

       On the websites Amy provided.
   Initially - on a website hosted by William Thomas.
Talked about on the Rollye James show that used to be on nights
  on WWDB but is on nights on WPHT and the internet now.
And a publication I get called something like Next Dimension
Publications - the fellow used to host a website www.ufosecrets.com
and he would call in to Rollye's show.  Last time I went to that web
   address - it is no longer there.  He had a lot of links.
And a lot of it is the conspiracy / waco stuff.  And that's what the
    government counts on - that you write it off with the rest.
But some of this covert stuff is true.  Which is and which isn't we
       may never know.
But like I said and I posted a couple pictures before - all you have
to do is look in the skies here, and invariably there'll be a plane with
"crop duster" trails trailing behind it.  A vapor trail from a jet vaporizes
almost immediately.  The stuff these jets leave stay in the sky for the
       rest of the day.
I remember when I was a boy I heard that planes used to "seed" the
clouds in hopes of us getting rain.  But these planes today can leave a big
   white streak in an otherwise totally blue cloudless sky.
        What these planes are doing - no
one has the definitive answer.  It's all secretive, albeit it's being done
right in front of our eyes.  Whatever it is.  If it's something like zinc
   oxide to help form clouds - then somebody say so!
 
 

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Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:58:45 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: [cobu] wish I knew what these were

I thought the third site on the list there below was the best.

logbearer@aol.com wrote:

> Tom,
> Some websites dealing with the issue of contrails -
> http://www.chemtrail.com
> http://www.chemtrailcentral.com
> http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
> May be the stuff of urban legend, may be not.
>                     Amy
 
 

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Message: 6
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:35:29 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Chapter/Verse

All well and good  - but is this really true?  Would be neat if it is.
     I assume it is.
Like the numerics figured out by Ivan Palin - or whatever that
     mathematician's name is.
Reminds me of "I'm watching over my word to perform it."
But the way of "cutting and pasting" is the thing that throws off
    understanding the scriptures in their matrix and message.
We paste together verses from hither and thither and create
our own message.  Now that's a problem that we've all been
     inoculated with....
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Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:46:37 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Florida Ballot

This was cute, Cindy. On the other hand, I just saw a TV news segment
here in New York in which third graders were given a butterfly ballot by
their teacher and asked to vote for the candidate of their choice. The
news clip included comments by the news anchors saying that the third
graders had no difficulty whatsoever in punching the correct box. They
also said things such as, "My little brother could do this." And keep in
mind that New York City is run by mostly Democrats, and the news media in
all likelihood consists of mostly Democrats.

"People come to know the love of Christ through the love of Christians
for them."
Bob San Pascual
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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:38:22 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: election ...  Owen's comments
 

TOM  wrote  -  It's an emotional issue and has our country in a lot of
turmoil.  And I understand the Reps point of view.  Get Bush in by hook or
crook for the 'good' of the country.
 

MARK writes - Republicans point of view??  There was nothing crooked or
deliberately deceitful about this election.  However, for those who have a
short memory, William Daley’s father the old Mayor Daley helped deliver JFK
the 1960 election, to the point of having dead people vote for the democrat.
  Bob Dornan’s seat in California was taken by voting fraud by the dems,
they are very good at it.  Plus they know how to buy votes with their
socialist welfare policies, as if they cared for the poor. I sure won’t
trust a manual recount performed by democrats.  They wish to denigrate the
woman (a democrat) who designed the ballot…

My vote was more anti-democrat than pro republican, I would like to see Alan
Keyes in the Oval Office.  Our nation has not been this divided in a long
time, and the Clinton people helped bring this about.  Another four years of
the dems, and those divisions will continue to get worse, taking us further
down the road to dictatorship and violence.  We were given a republic, but
it looks like we can’t keep it.

It was also interesting when I was asked to explain why I voted for Bush to
my step daughter and her teenage friends.  Also, on some offices, I voted
for the constitution party.  Certainly two parties is not enough.

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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:35:29 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Praying for you Cathy

;0 )

Thanks Mary,

Thanks for prayers especially. These are wonderful
little petitions by which we speak to Him. I am fine
now the surgeon said No Tumor! Yeah. Just an appendix
gone awry. I am slowly feeling better and better, but
whew was I tired and beat for awhile. I did get some
help but only dreamed of Chicken Soup. :)

Ps almost finished the book.

Love
CK

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Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:41:13 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: sighn on from rich farretta

Hi Richard!

Your name is so very familiar. I am not sure if I ever
met you or saw you from a distance or just heard your
name in passing??? But I would like to say Hi!

Hope your life is okay.

Sincerely CK
(Cathy Kirby)
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Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:43:29 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: election ...  Owen's comments

>  William Daley’s father the old Mayor Daley helped deliver JFK
> the 1960 election, to the point of having dead people vote for the democrat.

Daley could be relied upon to deliver the democratic vote (translated - victory)

- where the motto was "vote early; vote often" and they meant it.
In the Kennedy election it was  not just an issue of Cook County.
The Reps had their own things to hide in Illinois - and should an investigation
ensue, well, they couldn't have that coming out.  Saw that on PBS about two
weeks ago.  They showed other Nixon mistakes like not calling MLK while
he was in jail just a week before the election.  Supposedly Kennedy helped
"spring" him, and when MLK was interviewed leaving the prison he was
asked if the vice President (Nixon) had called him and he said, "No, he
hadn't."
Nixon was advised to, but thought it was simply a political move, yada,
yada, he said he wanted to win election based on his own merits;
something like that.

>  Our nation has not been this divided in a long
> time, and the Clinton people helped bring this about.

For me, this has to do with counting the votes.
When it's obvious someone has won or is so far ahead -
doing the nit picking counting is basically moot.
And Gore was about to concede.
But in this case - the nit picking counting is the only way to really
find out who got more votes than the other guy.  Otherwise,
to hazard a guess is to be irresponsible.
That's my opinion.  I think my vote and your vote should count.
Votes are stronger than feelings and trends.  When it's this close -
ya gotta count every last one.  Or don't they count?

> It was also interesting when I was asked to explain why I voted for Bush to
> my step daughter and her teenage friends.  Also, on some offices, I voted
> for the constitution party.  Certainly two parties is not enough.

Good to see the vote get spread around.  These two
parties need to know they're not going to be in charge forever.
Jesse Ventura made the point that the biggest percentage of voter
turn out was in his state and the other state that elected an
independent candidate for governor.
Votes can make a difference.
Every last one of 'em.
 
 

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Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:46:26 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Fw: out of the mouths of babes

Yes, why should these citizens votes count anyway.
They'll be dead soon, the geezers...
They shouldn't be allowed to vote in the first place.
What kind of country are we running here?!
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Message: 17
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:52:41 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Addressing Nancy's Implication

>  and I
> really don't need anybody else in my life telling me that when my Lord Jesus
> Christ tells me differently, because of what He did on the Cross.  Nor do I
> like the "implication" that he is saying that about all on the list who will
> not bend the knee, that bothers me.  If you want to go after an "implication"
> maybe you could chase that one, IMHO. Or maybe not, because the dogs and
> ponies are getting tired of going "R&R."
> Nancy C.

This was posted 10/8.
Doesn't it seem like Nancy's been gone a lot longer than that?
 
 

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Message: 18
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:52:51 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dignity?

I would wonder if the White House has had much
dignity or ever? The White House is symbolic of The
First Citizen living in the First House Representative
of The First Family of our Country. I suppose the
walls are no longer white but rather dingy and
tarnished over the years.  The Clintons bathed it in
black Mud!!!

But we the people, as a nation need our dignity to be
restored. And I believe God is ultimately the one to
help us---if He but would..."...Why???When I am a
Father who receives no honor from my son..."Malachi
 

CK
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Message: 20
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:55:32 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The walking Concordance
 

--- Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net> wrote:

> I speak to be understood.  My goal of becoming a
> walking concordance........:)

Dear brother in Christ
we could spare a little humility of soul
here....LOLOLOL
 

CK
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Message: 21
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:02:27 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: actually not a bad place to visit......

Dear Carol & Di,

These are the age old rules of belonging to this list,
I believe....I remember when I first came on I was
held into quite a few battles! I went so far I went
BONKERS! :) Couldn't save myself, but a very sweet
reminder to Rich from the both of you

Love CK
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Message: 22
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:08:51 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Karma

Gee, I have gotten lost here...

God is the God of the Universe. Karma is another one
of Satan's delightful little concepts.
Karma deals with reincarnation. For Example:
 

If in this life I decide to hurt someone by stealing
or abusing them, then when I die, in my next life
someone else is going to steal from me or abuse me.
Karma cannot exist without the idea of reincarnation.
And WE ALL know the verse "---there is but one life
and then comes Judgment" )-= Not Karma???? Unless you
meant Karmen?
But I don't know any Karmens--oh well

CK
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Message: 23
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:18:37 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: whom to choose.

Dear Darlene and Steve:

As I have not been up to par and extremely busy I
failed to read all that has been written here on the
sharpen, yet I gleaned pieces of important things and
tried my best to respond!

Oh course we have a right to our opinions. I like what
Mike wrote in one letter back about we are
individuals. How boring if everyone looked the same
talked the same thought the same. That is exactly what
COBU has tried to command into our lives. That we are
the same.....Nope...

CK
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Message: 24
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:33:54 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

I find in quite a miracle how Mother Teresa some how
found her way to Jesus through all that doctrine and
maintained a respected position in such a heavily
ritualistic religion. I begin to believe, and if one
were to stop and examine some of the saints that have
gone on to be with the Lord, there seems to surround
these precious nuns and priest and deacons and bishops
and mothers such an intimate knowledge of our Lord
Jesus.

I must say too that the Catholic Church has long been
a mockery and a target for COBU Brethren laughing and
and demeaning the Catholics was not uncommon amongst
us. Those of us who are truly Catholic either went
underground about our feelings or joined in the
taunting.

I wish and pray and hope that ex-members would give
permission to those of us who wish to return home to
the faith that has brought some of us to His knowledge
to begin with. I found my Heavenly Father not in COBU,
but rather on bended knee at the age of 17, holding my
rosary, praying hail Marys--seeking comfort with in
the confines of the Catholic Sanctuary.
I hope ex-members who are not of this faith, can allow
those who are, to rediscover themselves. Not all
Catholics are turned toward heaven, but neither are
all Baptists or Lutherens or Episcapalions sp? :)
or Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses...

But I will not say that I am right and you are wrong!
I will not say that you have gone astray--unless I
believe you are in a proven cult. I will tell you you
are in a cult. I will say Jesus loves you--whoever you
are whatever doctrine you have ever followed....If
Christ lives with in you,
You are a brother or sister whom I will see in Heaven
one day!

Peace Out!

CK
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Message: 25
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:37:57 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Praying for you Cathy

Thanks Steve,

God has heard yours and Carol's and others too. I know
now. I believe in the prayers of Saints! How blessed
am I to have other believers to pray for my health.
How amazing the little clouds of well scented perfume
float so obediently from the hearts of Saints to our
Dear Heavenly and Holy Father. Blesssed be His name
among our nations. He is our Father who listens and
hears Your prayers. Thank you Steve....

CK

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 478
Date:  14 Nov 2000 10:17:53 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:50:41 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Philosophy 101
 
 

>  CK
> Herm--- again Tom misunderstood what I said, here
> was my original quote:
>
> Anyway, the part about words distorting things was
> really more meant
> for our list conversations in general ... just off
> the top of my head.
>
> HW - Mary, true, but I'm sure you can apply this to
> most conversations. we
> often fail to understand what a person means,
> because their definition of a
> word is often different in meaning to the other
> person & the dictionary
> meaning. E.g. the "my karma overran my dogma" saying
> by Tom, which didn't
> seem make sense to anyone at first. I proceeded to
> look at dictionary's
> definition of the words, karma & dogma, & applied
> them to Tom's phrase. & the
> phrase didn't make sense & needed clarification from
> him.
>
>
>            Herm
>
Here is yet another excellent point, as to
communication Herm? You tend to be straight forward
and serious, yet at times forgetting that Tom is not.
That could make the conflict, but I do believe you two
understand each other well.....My Car would never come
close to my dog if I Had one,,,,yah know what I mean??
 

:))
CK

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Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:54:33 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: whom to choose.

Oh for Goodness Sakes He MUST be Jonah, Lori!!!!

LOL

Very good point, But also remember the pain you may
feel watching your children making these mistakes and
then wishing that somehow you could help them avoid
them or live it for them? It must be our human nature
to have to know and find out for ourselves the truth.

Love
CK

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Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:58:54 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cloning

EEESSHHHH!!! Spooky Yet Satan told Eve it could
happen, we ate from the tree of Knowledge so we can
create stuff too.

CK
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Message: 5
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:02:31 GMT
   From: "Jon Martinson" <twentymaine@hotmail.com>
Subject: prayer request

Hi folks,
          I have just received word that I have been appointed to the
position of Operations Manager for the Paramedic service that I work for.
This is a position with alot of responsibility and the need for much wisdom
and patience. I thank God that He has seen fit to grant me this opportunity
despite myself. Please pray for me that I may perform my duties in a manner
pleasing to Him and with his guidance in all that I do.
               Thanks,
                         Jon M.
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Message: 7
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:23:12 PST
   From: "Sohm Ving" <ving3@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: [montoya1] Fw: Dems Call Fla. Voters About Ballots

> >
> > Dems Call Fla. Voters About Ballots
> >
> > Associated Press
> > Nov 10, 2000
> >
> > WASHINGTON (AP) - Faced with a cliffhanger election, the
> > Democratic Party directed a telemarketing firm on Election
> > Night to begin calling thousands of voters in Palm Beach,
> > Fla., to raise questions about a disputed ballot and urge
> > them to contact local election officials.
> >
> > The Democratic National Committee paid Texas-based TeleQuest
> > to make the calls Tuesday night - while polls were still
> > open - alerting voters in the heavily Democratic enclave in
> > Florida of possible confusion with the ballots they cast.
> >
> > ``Some voters have encountered a problem today with punch
> > card ballots in Palm Beach County,'' the script for the call
> > said. ``These voters have said that they believe that they
> > accidentally punched the wrong hole for the incorrect
> > candidate.''
> >
> > ``If you have already voted and think you may have punched
> > the wrong hole for the incorrect candidate, you should
> > return to the polls and request that the election officials
> > write down your name so that this problem can be fixed,''
> > the script said.
> >
> > The firm took the names and numbers of voters who said they
> > may have cast an errant ballot, providing the Democratic
> > Party a list of about 2,400 voters in the county who thought
> > they may have misvoted.
> >
> > If voters were about to go to the polls, the script called
> > for the caller to instruct them to ``be sure to punch Number
> > 5 for Gore-Lieberman'' and ``do NOT punch any other number
> > as you might end up voting for someone else by mistake.''
> >
> > Democratic National Committee spokeswoman Jenny Backus said
> > the party had been making traditional get-out-the-vote calls
> > all over the country Tuesday, but shifted gears in Palm
> > Beach after hearing local news reports about possible voter
> > confusion.
> >
> > ``Once we were informed by local news accounts of the
> > magnitude of the problem with confusion about the ballot, we
> > shifted our scripts to make sure that people who were voting
> > were aware of the questions and confusion around the
> > ballot,'' she said.
> >
> > The maneuver indicates that long before Americans awoke to
> > the reality of the Florida ballot dispute, Democrats were
> > already mobilizing voters there. The concern has focused on
> > Palm Beach, where 19,000 ballots were disqualified and
> > hundreds of voters have said they mistakenly voted for
> > Patrick Buchanan while trying to vote for Gore.
> >
> > Within hours of the phone campaign, hundreds of Democratic
> > voters had called election officials in Palm Beach to
> > complain they may have been confused by the ballot and voted
> > for the wrong candidate.
> >
> > Some Palm Beach County voters have filed lawsuits seeking a
> > new vote.
> >
> > The outcome of the dispute is key because George W. Bush is
> > leading Gore by a mere 327 votes after a statewide recount.
> > The winner of Florida will lay claim to the electoral votes
> > needed to become the nation's 43rd president.
> >
> > The calls indicate that Democrats were concerned about Palm
> > Beach problems even before they knew Florida's vote would
> > end in a razor-thin margin, said American University
> > political science professor Candice Nelson.
> >
> > ``To the extent there have been accusations that Democrats
> > didn't cry foul until they realized Wednesday that Bush may
> > have won, this cuts the other way,'' she said.
> >
> > Nelson and other political and legal experts said the calls
> > were perfectly legal but could have contributed to what
> > appeared to most Americans to be a spontaneous explosion of
> > concern in Florida the morning after the election.
> >
> > ``I think those kinds of calls make perfect sense,'' Nelson
> > said. ``In terms of people getting riled up, it would be a
> > tactic that might energize voters who might otherwise not
> > have realized they may have mistakenly voted for the wrong
> > candidate.''
> >
> > One Florida Democrat said Republicans would take similar
> > action had the tables been turned.
> >
> > ``They'd be fighting this thing tooth and nail for months
> > and months,'' said Wayne Brewer, 45, of Juneau, Fla.
> >
> > ``They knew they ... lost, and now they want to win on an
> > assumption,'' he said, speaking outside the government
> > center in West Palm Beach.
> >
> > Wade Scott, an account manager with TeleQuest, said
> > Democratic Party officials contacted his company shortly
> > before 6 p.m. EST Tuesday to make the calls.
> >
> > With only an hour to go before Florida polls closed, his
> > company mobilized all of its telemarketers to make some
> > 5,000 calls in less than 45 minutes, Scott said.
> >
> > ``It was a very short burst of calling for our industry,''
> > Scott said. He said only about 100 of the voters in Palm
> > Beach it contacted hadn't voted, and about 2,400 felt they
> > may have made a mistake on the ballot.
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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:24:51 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Manipulation and Control - Program on Internet

Wow.
"A lesson we'll all share for the rest of our lives."
I couldn't get it all - it was difficult to view at points.
But there was enough bone chilling stuff - - wow.
and it's based on a true story -
yeah, I think I lived it.
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Message: 9
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:33:40 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: Wondering where some have been....

Guess I will jump on the band wagon! You presence was
noticed as absent from the list. Love reading your
comments and responses.
CK
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Message: 10
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:45:39 PST
   From: "Sohm Ving" <ving3@hotmail.com>
Subject: NATE IS A CHRISTIAN

Very good news...and before I detail the event...let me say that I have
always been extremely cautious and cynical about children becoming
christians for obvious reasons.

Yesterday, Jocelyn and I were at the service with Nate(our son, age 4,
almost 5) We were about to partake of the Lord's Table. He saw the plate of
bread being passed and asked if he could could participate. I told him that
only christians could take communion. He said he wanted to be a christian. I
told him that he needed to understand what that meant. Meanwhile our voices
were getting louder and louder and so I took him by the hand and led him out
of the main sanctuary to one of the empty classrooms. He sat down and I got
out some dry eraser markers and began to explain to him about sin. He
already knew what sin was and that he is "bad" sometimes. Then I drew Jesus
on the cross to which he responded that Jesus died for our sins. Then I told
him that if we do not get rid of our sins we all go to Hell. But If he pray
and ask God to forgive our sins and take them away, we go to Heaven. Then I
told him about The holy Spirit. And I told him about our life as a christian
on this earth before we go to Heaven. Then I told him that he could wait
until he understands more or he could pray and ask God to make him a
christian. He said he wanted to pray and offered both of his hands to me. I
have never prayed with him in this manner. I told him that I would pray and
then give him a prayer that he could say to God. He prayed very steady and
very deliberately. Afterward he listened to me explain things and then
suggested that we talk more about it at home as his next class was soon to
begin. On his way out of the room he said, "I believe in Jesus now, I'm
following Jesus now." And he told practically everyone in the halls that he
was a christian now. He did not bring up or seek to take the Lord's
supper....and so confirmed for me that he wasn't just doing this "thing" so
he could do "the food and drink" thing. I took him to his Sunday class and
afterward went to the kitchen and got a piece of bread and the little
plastic cup of juice  and we went into the sanctuary and I asked him what he
thought this meant. Before I could finish he said that the juice was the
blood of Christ. I was really amazed at what he knew. I had never told him
directly about salvation but over this last year he has asked Jocelyn alot
of questions.

So I am convinced that someone as young as Nate can make the commitment to
Jesus.

Mike
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Message: 11
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:04:38 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: the beast of revelation
 

LORI  wrote -  do you think this beast could be a clone of one of those 7
kings?
 

MARK writes -
Many of the early brothers believed that the Roman Emperor Nero was the
beast, I think that he was one of those kings.  The value of the letters in
his name also added up to 666 in the greek, when the value of those letters
was added in another way from another form of his name, the total was 616.
I read that somewhere and I’ll have to look it up for the details.

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Message: 12
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 21:26:01 EST
   From: Gjude20@aol.com
Subject: Re: NATE IS A CHRISTIAN

In a message dated 11/13/00 5:53:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ving3@hotmail.com writes:

<<
 So I am convinced that someone as young as Nate can make the commitment to
 Jesus.

 Mike
 _ >>
Dear Mike, Thank you for sharing this wonderful news.  Ed
 

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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:01:56 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: NATE IS A CHRISTIAN

Brother Sohm,
I rejoice in your testimony bro!
I believe becoming a Christian is fully the work of God and not a human
decision and it appears young Nate heard His Father's voice as Lazarus heard
Jesus call to him in the grave and the dead man came out.
Praise God bro: )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:07:10 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: the beast of revelation

I think that's the case.  Paul already knew about letters being
intercepted or misunderstood or most importantly - having
deadly consequences.  Ever since Paul wrote about Jerusalem
being in bondage - or the son of the slave - what ever it is he
said - that made Jerusalem very angry with him.  So that who
knows how many people were out for his neck literally -
(remember the daggermen).  So codifying Nero's name was
just plain good sense and it makes sense.  Though who can say
%100?  There's still room for doubt.  We don't know definitively
what was really actually meant - but that's the best guess - Nero.
Are you suggesting they dig up Nero's DNA and clone him?
Arnold Swartzenager (sp) was on TV the other night saying he thinks
cloning humans is only five years away.
But like I responded to the other cloning thing (and I think it got
lost because of the original post not being able to be copied in
limited form) - the movie "Creator" with Peter O'Toole and Muriel
Hemingway had a line in it: "It would never be Barbara on the beach."
O'Tooles student's fiancé was in a coma and he suggested cloning.
O'Toole already had a test tube of Lucy, his dead wife ready for
cloning when he finally could do it.
But the student told O'Toole even if you clone Barbara, it won't be
the same person with the same shared things we had - etc.
I think someone brought it up before - what about the spirit?
"As you don't know how the spirit..."
You may be able to clone flesh and organs - but you're not going to
get the same "person."
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Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:05:18 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [montoya1] Fw: Dems Call Fla. Voters About Ballots

Brother Sohm,
So much for the spontaneity. More like a well-choreographed dance number.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:06:58 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: prayer request

Brother Jon,
Praise God, congratulations and amen bro.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 17
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:14:34 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Praying for you Cathy

Sister Felicia,
My heart rejoices to hear this good report!
Earlier tonight I asked Father God for a sign (tiny one-I was looking at the
starry sky and thinking of Abraham conversing with God) and He has chosen
your post to reassure my heart that He indeed hears and answers. Blessed be
His Name.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 18
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:02:50 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: cool heads? who's counting?

Brother Herm,
I don't buy it either bro.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 19
   Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:44:41 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Sister Felicia,
I write this with brotherly love and some fear that I may hurt you and yet
my Lord, our Lord compels me. I rejoice that He called you and saved you as
He does for all His elect. But I assure you by the authority of most holy
scripture that your salvation had nothing in common with or anything to do
with your holding your rosary, saying hail Marys or what room your body was
in. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the Life, no one comes to
the Father but by me." Not "me and my mother". God simply opened your heart
to believe and you responded. Salvation is of the Lord...period.
Search the scriptures sis. There is one mediator between God and man-only
one. Our dear Lord paid it all and so He earned the right alone to do it
all.
Worship where you will. But regarding our salvation, God will not share the
price His Son paid with anyone else. That would rob the cross of all its
power.
I listen to my pastor and compare what he says with what scripture says. I
wish I had done that while in Cobu.
Please, sis, do the same with the teachings of your priests and nuns. Hold
fast to what they say as long as it doesn't differ from scripture.
God bless you.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 20
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:05:39 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: just in case

Brother Owen,
I bought it back in the 80's-don't have it anymore. Good comparisons as you
said.
What is the sequel called?
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 21
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:08:05 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert!

Brother Owen,
Now you're scarin me boy : ) I already down loaded the stupid patch-don't have
any strange cravings yet though...
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 22
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:55:15 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: sign on from rich farretta

I Guess Dear Brother Rich decided not to participate after all.  Even though he
has searched for a long time to re-establish contact with xBoo members.  And
even though he was soooo excited to find this list.  Guess it's just not what he
anticipated.   Well who could blame him after being greeted in such a rude and
insensitive manner and reading all of the useless  arguments back and forth.  I
wonder how many others have left the list for the same reason?
Well be sure to ignore this message, and by all means, carry on as usual.  If
Jim Enright's departure didn't sink in....I doubt anything will.

Diana
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Message: 23
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 06:13:02 -0000
   From: "GetSmart GetSaved" <kb8kfm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert!

I first saw that kak.reg virus on my mom's computer after I installed
it direct from Sears. I then began to see it every now and then. I
used a program to get rid of the thing, and now there are two
variations of it. Some people have nothing better to do than write
programs to give other people large migrains.\
 

ray

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 479
Date:  15 Nov 2000 10:33:52 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:14:49 -0500
   From: Mary <mary@readaloud.com>
Subject: Re[2]: sign on from rich farretta

Hello Diana,

Please don't jump to conclusions, unless you really know what happened
to Rich ...
And sometimes bros may appear gruff ... but they don't take things the
way we do ... I don't think he got such a rude greeting. This list
takes a while to get used to ... perhaps we should warn people of that
and ask for patience. I would get frustrated with many arguments and
conversations at times and feel like you ... but I do try to let
things work themselves out and I have been amazed at the way they do.

Perhaps I can excuse all this because Rick can appear gruff and
grouchy at times ... and I have to smooth things over.

So ... relax ... and if Rich or others don't have time or don't like
the list ... let it be. Can't make people have the social skills or
whatever ... can only be an example and pray and look at the positive
side!

Mary
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Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:50:15 -0500
   From: Mary <mary@readaloud.com>
Subject: more thoughts for Diana ...

Hello Diana,

Could you possibly criticize in a gentler, less hostile manner?  You
already jumped on Owen about his greeting ... which by the way, seemed
to be a problem with Owen's computer or software (I saw no difference
in the font in Rich's message). And if one gets to know Owen, as I have
(a little) through this list, well I appreciate him and
what he has to say. We all make mistakes, and they can seem more
horrible in print (but so many times I've rerun conversations (in my
head) and don't like what I've said.  I mean, taming the tongue ...
it's impossible.

However, when you criticize "the list" in general I feel like I'm back
in cobu and part of the awful group. I think it is better to look at
us all as individuals ... instead of laying guilt on everyone. I'm a
little neurotic and can always find a zillion things to be guilty
about as it is! I'd hate for this list to be one more.

And as Tom said, what's meaningful is meaningful to you ... you or
Rich are welcome to bring up what you're into ... and if you can't
"connect" with someone, well I'm sorry ... but I don't think that will
be the case!

Mary
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:52:05 EST
   From: JFeath4301@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Hello Felicia,
My name is Janet Feathers, I hope that you remember me. I for one will not
critize or instruct you. About 4 years ago I went to classes and became
Catholic. I find God everywhere I go. I except you and your beliefs, just
know that on the one list, you may have opened up a can of worms. Just stay
as you are.
Love always
Feathers
 

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:04:09 -0500 (EST)
   From: Sandra Bloomfield <Sabbylove@Juno.com>
Subject: A Political Breather.....Sent in Jest.  Enjoy

Subject: Why Did The Chicken Cross The Road?

> > > Why did the chicken cross the road?
> >
>
> > > VICE PRESIDENT GORE:
> > > I fight for the chickens and I am fighting for the chickens right now.
I will not
give up on the chickens crossing the road! I will
fight for the chickens and I will not disappoint them.
> > >
> > > GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH
> > > I don't believe we need to get the chickens across the
road. I say give the road to the chickens and let them decide. The
government needs to let
go of strangling the chickens so they can get across the road.
> > >
> > > SENATOR LIEBERMAN:
> > > I believe that every chicken has the right to worship his or her god
in his or her own
way. Crossing the road is a spiritual
journey and no chicken should be denied the right to cross
the road in his or her own way.
> > >
> > > SECRETARY CHENEY:
> > > Chickens are big-time because they have wings. They
could fly if they wanted to. Chickens don't want to cross the road. They
don't need help
crossing the road. In fact, I'm not interested in crossing the road myself.
> > >
> > > RALPH NADER:
> > >
Chickens are mislead into believing there is a road by the evil tire
makers. Chickens are not ignorant, but our society pays tire makers to
create the need for
these roads and then lures chickens into believing there is an advantage to
crossing them.
Down with the roads, up with the chickens.
>
> >
> > > PAT BUCHANAN:
> > > To steal a job from a decent, hardworking American.
> > >
> > > JERRY FALWELL:
> > > Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't
you see? The chicken was going to "the other side." That's it friends, that
chicken is gay.
And, if you eat that chicken, you will become
gay, too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination
that the liberal
media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like "the other side."
That chicken should
not be free to cross the road. It's as plain and simple as that.
> >
> > > DR. SUESS:
> > > Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes! The
chicken crossed
the road, but why he crossed, I've not been told.
>
> > > ERNEST HEMINGWAY:
> > > To die. In the rain.
> > >
> > > MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.,
> >
> I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross without
having their motives called into question.
> > >
> > > GRANDPA:
> > > In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone
told us that the
chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough for us.
> > >
ARISTOTLE:
> > > It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.
> > >
> > > KARL MARX:
> > > It was an historic inevitability.
> > >
> > > SADDAM HUSSEIN:
> > > This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were
quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it.
> > >
> > > RONALD REAGAN:
> > > What chicken?
> > >
> > > CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK:
> >
> To boldly go where no chicken has gone before.
> > >
>
> > FOX MULDER:
> > > You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more chickens
have to cross
before you believe it?
> > >
> > > FREUD:
>
> > The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken crossed
the road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.
>
> > > BILL GATES:
> > > I have just released eChicken 2000, which will not only cross roads,
but will lay
eggs, file your important documents, and balance your checkbook - and
Internet Explorer is
an inextricable part of eChicken.
> > >
> > > EINSTEIN:
> >
> Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move beneath
the chicken?
> > >
> > > BILL >CLINTON:
> > > I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What do
you mean by "chicken"?
> > >Could you define "chicken," please?
> > >
> > > GEORGE BUSH:
> > > I don't think I should have to answer that question.
> > >
> > > LOUIS FARRAKHAN:
> > >
The road, you will see, represents the black man. The chicken crossed
>the "black man" in order to trample him and keep him
down.
> > >
> > > THE BIBLE:
> > > And God came down from the Heavens, and He said unto the chicken,
"Thou shalt cross
the road," and the chicken crossed the road
and there was much rejoicing.
> > > COLONEL SANDERS:
> > > I missed one?
 
 
 
 

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Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:24:30 -0500 (EST)
   From: Sandra Bloomfield <Sabbylove@Juno.com>
Subject: RE: John Ams for President!!

Wow, as I read some of these emails, I'm flabbergasted!  Are there no Gore
supporters here at all in this forum??  For the record, I am one.

Peace!
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:42:57 EST
   From: cbHIMtg@cs.com
Subject: Re: Chapter/Verse

Hi Ray, it's an interesting observation. Verse & chapter addresses are a
practical tool for us to make it easier in trying to find the many topics
which the Bible speaks about. E.g., if you want to do a study on what the
Bible says on salvation, love, marriage, etc, it makes it much easier to find
it through the use of a concordance than having to read the entire Bible to
find every place which contains that particular topic. however caution must
be used in making sure to read & understand the context of any topic to
determine how the topic is used in the context. Also the Bible is God's
revelation of his thoughts to us, & we must have His Spirit in order to
understand it (1 COR 2:10-16, 2 PET 1:20-21). This however does not mean we
don't have diligently study to find out it's principles (2 TIM 2:15). In the
era I went to school (50's & 60's) we constantly diagrammed sentences to
identify how each word in a sentence relates to each other. At the time I
hated it & didn't understand the value of it. now I see how good sentence
structure is a valuable tool to learn. Reading comprehension or
interpretation is harder to do without understanding sentence structure. I
have heard in some schools today diagramming sentences is no longer taught. I
know my 19 year was never taught it. Comments anyone.
                                                            Herm
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Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:29:48 EST
   From: cbHIMtg@cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

 Hi Cathy, I'm a former practicing RC, who was an altarboy, went to Catholic
school for 8 years, & learned & know their doctrines. I too had feelings of
comfort while praying in an RC church, but good feelings are not the
measuring stick of truth. Thy word is truth (JN 17:17), & not my good feeling
is truth.  In the light of Scriptures, I find it hard to believe that our
heavenly Father condones this idolatrous prayer.

    Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. This is based on what
was spoken by   the angel, Gabriel, to Mary in LK 1:28.
    Blessed art thou among women, & blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
based on    what was spoken by Elizabeth to Mary in LK 1:42
    Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now & at the hour of our
death.

    It sounds harmless enough until you find out what the RC church teaches
you must believe about Mary. I mention also the practice of feast days in
adoration of Mary, which I participated in many times. I remember them
crowning her statue on May Day, singing, "Ave, Ave, Ave, Regina," meaning
hail to the Queen. I find no scriptural basis for praying to, or adoring
anyone except God, do you? & to make matters worse the rosary has 50 "Hail
Mary" prayers to 5 "Our [heavenly) Father" prayers, Who gets top billing in
the "blessed rosary"? Were you aware of this?  The whole Marilogy doctrine is
based on false human premises, which I'll be glad to post to you & others who
are interested. These might be hard sayings to you & some others, but please
examine them in the light of scriptures. I'm sure as a Christian you won't
want to knowingly condone & defend idolatry. It is more a matter for weeping
& praying for those who caught in this deception.

                                                                    Herm
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Message: 8
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:13:32 EST
   From: cbHIMtg@cs.com
Subject: Re: Philosophy 101

Hi Cathy, read if you can the original thread of these posts. No where did
Tom indicate
that the statement, my karma overran my dogma, was in jest & just nonsense to
bait those on the list. Ask him to explain it, if he can.

                                                            Herm
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Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:04:03 -0500
   From: "><\(brother ray\)><" <kb8kfm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: John Ams for President!!

Good grief it's a Gush fan or was that a Bore fan tsk tsk...
I think the majority of this list cares little about either of them.
 
 

  Wow, as I read some of these emails, I'm flabbergasted!  Are there no Gore
  supporters here at all in this forum??  For the record, I am one.

  Peace!
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Message: 10
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 02:59:23 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: NATE IS A CHRISTIAN

Very good news!  Jesus said to let the little children come to Him and not
to forbid them.
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Message: 12
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:40:31 EST
   From: JFeath4301@aol.com
Subject: RE: John Ams for President!!

Sandra,
For the record I am a Gore supporter.
Feathers
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Message: 13
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:23:08 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

>  I'm sure as a Christian you won't
> want to knowingly condone & defend idolatry. It is more a matter for weeping
> & praying for those who caught in this deception.

How many times must one shoot a dead horse?
How many times must one say something till it sinks in?
The answer my friend, is many many times
the answer is many, many times....

Wake up and smell the coffee.  These people believe in God.
They don't go for the crap either.  They go for God in a particular
house of worship.  I don't think they'd go jot and tittle for everything
where you go either.  And perhaps even you don't either.
No place is perfect. " Is this getting hit over the head lessons?
No, you want the ten minute argument.....
Good morning! "
(john cleese)
Why must you worship at the altar of correct teaching?
I gave that up for lent.
And left it in a far away place that feels oh so close now....
Dear brother, will you give it up?
 
 
 

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Message: 14
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:35:06 PST
   From: "Sohm Ving" <ving3@hotmail.com>
Subject: UPDATE NOV 14th
 

Please Welcome   Fred Anderson and Wanda Perdieu to the Sharpen list.

Does anyone have contact with Linda Guido(Guito)????please email me at
ving3@hotmail.com

Sharpen 33 is almost edited.

at least 100 new/old pictures to come within one week.

mm
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Message: 15
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:14 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Catholics/Ray/ words

It has been said that the RC is the great whore,    but I see them as much more
sinister
From:  Owen
        Dear Ray
        Now I'm confused.  You seemed to be saying "more sinister than the great
whore of Babylon".  What is more sinister than that?   You did not say that RC
was the whore, but the rest of the sentence said that RC was even worse.    Or
did you intend to say something else?

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
  ________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 17
   Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:18:08 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Nate, Jon, Linda Guido...

Hey, at least you still have your sense of humor.  :-)
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Message: 18
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:08:43 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Herman and Tom,
I want to let you know that Cathy doesn't pray to Mary.  When she spoke of
saying the rosary, it was early in her life, when this was what she was
given and understood.  God saw her heart.  God still sees her heart and all
of ours.  How about we all just trust that verse "and if in anything you
are otherwise minded...".  I was reading Hebrews last night---it's been
years since I read Hebrews, for reasons I won't get into.  But there was a
verse that said we have no need for anyone to teach us.  I still like to
discuss doctrine and the Bible and I still don't think it's wrong to.
Herman, you are convinced you are right.  Tom, you are convinced you're
right. Fine.  But lately each of you treat the other like God can't raise
His child and you've taken it upon yourself to pry open the other's eyes.
And some of us here are wincing from the impatience and sarcasm.  Maybe
there are reasons for both of your stances because of the purpose He has
for each of you.  I've talked to Cathy about the catholic church; she
doesn't resent my opinion and I've listened to her explain her reasons for
being drawn to it.  It has nothing to do with idolatry, Mary worship, etc,
but how she has been treated and cared for.
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Message: 19
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:08:43 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Herman and Tom,
I want to let you know that Cathy doesn't pray to Mary.  When she spoke of
saying the rosary, it was early in her life, when this was what she was
given and understood.  God saw her heart.  God still sees her heart and all
of ours.  How about we all just trust that verse "and if in anything you
are otherwise minded...".  I was reading Hebrews last night---it's been
years since I read Hebrews, for reasons I won't get into.  But there was a
verse that said we have no need for anyone to teach us.  I still like to
discuss doctrine and the Bible and I still don't think it's wrong to.
Herman, you are convinced you are right.  Tom, you are convinced you're
right. Fine.  But lately each of you treat the other like God can't raise
His child and you've taken it upon yourself to pry open the other's eyes.
And some of us here are wincing from the impatience and sarcasm.  Maybe
there are reasons for both of your stances because of the purpose He has
for each of you.  I've talked to Cathy about the catholic church; she
doesn't resent my opinion and I've listened to her explain her reasons for
being drawn to it.  It has nothing to do with idolatry, Mary worship, etc,
but how she has been treated and cared for.
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Message: 20
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:12:47 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: UPDATE NOV 14th

Wanda and Fred, welcome.

Wanda, are you still in VA?  How old is Christopher now?  Marie just turned
21, Gabe is 18, Janelle is 16 and we've had two more children since we last
saw you: Justine is 11 and Aubrey Lynn is 8.  Lori
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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 480
Date:  16 Nov 2000 08:57:04 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 06:33:55 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

>   Tom, you are convinced you're
> right. Fine.

You've missed my point.  I'm convinced that they're not
to be hassled for worshipping God where they want.
You obviously haven't been following the train of thought.
No problem - you probably jumped in mid stream.
Who wants to jump in at all?  So I can understand your
not following - and this has to be the case - otherwise you
would have seen earlier.  I winced after sending my last post.
I was going to let it go, cause at this point, it's what's the point?
That's the whole thing about beating a dead horse and all -
I may as well not talk - who's listening?  I don't like seeing
God's word used to put others down.  That's NOT the
spirit of God.  A dimly bruised reed he will not break and
a dimly burning wick he will not quench.  And heaven knows
there's a lot of burning wicks inside that Cathedral.....
Those who have followed my "fight" here will bear me out.
 
 

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Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:07:59 -0500
   From: walkerm@hoffman.army.mil
Subject: News flash...

London, 10th November 2000

To the citizens of the United States of America,

Following your failure to elect a President of the USA to govern yourselves
and, by extension, the free world, we hereby give notice of the revocation
of your independence. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume a
monarch's duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, please comply with
the following acts:

1. Look up "revoke" in a dictionary
2. Learn at least the first 4 lines of "God save the Queen"
3. Start referring to "soccer" as football
4. Start driving on the left side of the road.
5. Start carrying umbrellas everywhere.
6. Declare war on Quebec

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to
ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation and... cheerio!
 
 

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Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:10:03 EST
   From: JFeath4301@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: End of the semester

Hi to all,
To all the college students. Good luck. I just finished my last of the two
presentations due this semester(yuk). Now on to reading, finals and papers,
more fun. I am already registered for 9 credits in the spring. Not much
longer. Then it will be the new year.
Love ya
Feathers
 

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Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:02:12 -0500
   From: Mary <mary@readaloud.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Hello Lori,

Thanks Lori.

It's funny, I like to tell my problems to people. But most of the time
I'm not really looking for advice from them ... but I've noticed some
people feel compelled to try to advise me what to do etc. etc.  Then I
become frustrated and have to say, No, you don't understand the
situation because of this, that and the other ...  Most times I'm just
looking for understanding, a listening ear, and prayer.

I got in some fights with my cousin about this when I was first
dealing with my mom's dementia (his dad also has it). He would try to
advise me based on what he's been through ... but everyone is
different (although with the illness some of the situations are
similar). Anyway, he got very frustrated because he said I never
listened to his advice ... but all I wanted was a listening ear and
comfort...

Mary
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Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:56:30 -0500
   From: Lori <lledonne@sunlink.net>
Subject: Re: News flash...

Pretty creative here!  Did you hear how Cuba offered to send some delegates
up to Florida to help them resolve the situation?

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Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:38:13 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Addressing Nancy's Implication

YES, SHE HAS BEEN.  SHE'S TAKING A BREAK.  IT GOT OVERWHELMING HERE FOR
HER AND SHE HAS DECIDED TO WITHDRAW  PERSONALLY I THINK THINGS GOT TOO HOT AND HEAVY HERE AND THAT PERHAPS WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL TO ADDRESS PEOPLE PRIVATELY AND NOT IN THIS FORUM WHEN WE ARE IN ANY WAY CENSURING CONDUCT AND SPEECH IN A PERSONAL MANNER.  THIS IS REALLY PERSONAL NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.  ANYWAY THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO NANCY.  I MISS
HER. LOVE,  ELLEN
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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:22:26 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: GaC

apology accepted here.  love, e
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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:32:37 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Chapter/Verse

NO, 1/2 OF 29 ISN'T 8.  IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE MIDWAY VERSE OF THE
ENTIRE bIBLE.  I SERIOUSLY QUESTION THE SANITY OF ANYONE WHO COUNTS
THROUGH TO THE MIDDLE VERSE.  I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT BOTHERS ME,  BUT IT DOES.  TO WHAT PURPOSE?  I JUST HOPE THEY READ IT AS THEY WENT
ALONG.  ELLEN\
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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:27:47 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: confession... and election....

. maybe we should
>just let Bill Clinton stay another 4 years.. he wouldn't mind..  :)
>ROFLOL=
>.
>NO THANK YOU!!  HE'S LEGALLY DONE NOW. HURRAY FOR SOME THINGS
ANYWAY.   :)
>________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 11
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:25:41 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: John Amos for President!!

thanks, carol, but we're not done grooming him yet.  we had a hailstorm
today and he threw himself on the porch as his sister (who was cold)
tried to drag him in the front door.  he obviously liked it out there,
but this is not the behavior of an American President in my estimation.
you should see him at the table.  :)   love,  ellen
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Message: 12
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:20:32 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Acquire the Fire

dear ray:

that's a shame.  i hope ATF isn't losing its grip.  yes, our children do
end up like us.  that's why it's so important that we are connected with
our Father in a real way.  otherwise, their hearts just follow our
wanderings in whatever direction we tend to wander.  you know---  the no
good in man concept.  boy, is that true.  but Jesus can do it all.  we
watched him get a hold of our very angry young man there and it was
terrifying on this end at times, but He was successful.  He dealt with a
lot in us too.  it was good all around.  painful, but good.  Elijah
finally came through the hurdles, and didn't crash and burn as it looked
like he would.  the interesting part was that Jesus used the church and
the grace they showed toward Elijah the most--the one thing we had failed
at and could not offer was what he needed most and when we gave it all
up, Jesus did it.  it was wonderful.  John and I had talked, repented and
cried to E about the fellowship and other issues and did all we could do
but it wasn't enough.  anyway, i'll pray for your guys.  they are
probably dealing with what's going on at home primarily so we will pray
for you too.  what's your wife's name?  i don't need to know i just pray
better for people by name.  it's easier for me.  are you guys in a church
that can help you?  hope everything works out for you.  life on your
end-no pun intended--sounds a bit tumultuous lately. love,  ellen|
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Message: 13
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:52:10 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re: King for prez

dear owen:

maybe we should send him to be raised by the Essenes!  just kidding.  i
thought the age was 32.  i guess we'll have to wait until 2036.  do you
think we should learn to be vegetarians?  aaghh!  i can't do it.  we'll
just have to chance it.  love,  ellen
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Message: 14
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:47:19 -0800
   From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>
Subject: Re:black & white

it's true, isn't it?  we really do want things to be black and white too,
but it rarely works that way.  i think it's because we ourselves are not
made up that way.  makes me wonder why we try so hard to put that on all
the time.  we do it with everything from decorating to theology.  only in
decorating does it work out.  love,  ellen

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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:59:00 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re:black & white

Gene was upstairs in the bathroom of a new fellowship
    house in Canada they were working on.
Someone walked in and said, "Look, the curtains match
   the pattern on the floor.  Thank you Jesus!"
A little while later, another sister came in:
 "Ewe!  Those curtains clash with the floor.  That's
       of the devil!"  And she left.
Gene collapsed on the side of the tub and could only
   stare for the longest time at the drapes thinking:
         "Is that of Jesus, or the devil?"
What a dilemma.
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Message: 17
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:02:16 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: intercession

> >>From what I understand very few are called to do this.  I'm glad
> >some people are.  It's comforting to know there's people praying.
> > few called to intercede or few called to teach on intercession?
>         >

Intercede, as far as I understand it.  Not a light undertaking.
I would think even fewer teach.  As God's spirit leads.
 
 

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Message: 18
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:14:27 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Chapter/Verse

> NO, 1/2 OF 29 ISN'T 8.  IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE MIDWAY VERSE OF THE
> ENTIRE bIBLE.  I SERIOUSLY QUESTION THE SANITY OF ANYONE WHO COUNTS
> THROUGH TO THE MIDDLE VERSE.  I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT BOTHERS ME,  BUT IT DOES.  TO WHAT PURPOSE?  I JUST HOPE THEY READ IT AS THEY WENT
> ALONG.          ELLEN\

I, of all people, if you're familiar with stuff I've written, but maybe it was
too verbose and too lengthy for the day at that time, and you thought it best
not to read.  That happens.  But I have made it plain that I am for reading
the letters outside of the Aristotelean/Western mindset of proof texts.
A letter should be read as a whole and in context - especially the context
    of the story - and I challenge anyone.... well, never mind.
But it is interesting that things in the Bible do happen to mathematically
work out.  It's like the "mysterious" Bible Codes - it shows that God's
fingerprint is right there in the midst of all the scripture.  All the
mathematical things that work out in scripture are too much of a coincidence.  No one's
smart enough to get it all to work out like that.  Hence, God's fingerprint.
As we always used to witness - "A pencil is the instrument that does the
       writing - but who is moving the instrument?"
Also - I remember that Traill guy talking about the World Trade Towers
and the structure there - and relating that to the structure of the Bible.
        He had something there.
I also got something.  I just read a lot about Lenin today - and there are
     passages about Lenin that describe ST to a "T."
  I may copy and pass them along in the future.
Hey - check out that "Wave" thing Maureen gave a link to.
  If you want something that exposes the inner workings of a
blast from the past.  It could help those with spouses to understand
   the spiritual physics involved in what we went through.
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Message: 19
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:26:47 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: superstition
 

From:  Owen
        Dear
       There are certain practices, which are called superstitious which may
have a basis in logic and may confer a real benefit. I will proceed to list
certain practices and my speculation as to their origin.
If there is a ladder leaning against a building, then there is probably a man
working who will eventually drop a tool (like a hammer). Hopefully not when you
are walking under it. If he is painting, then drops of paint will fall. If he is
working with bricks …. walking under that ladder just might become very unlucky.

If you’re throwing away a mirror and you break it up in the house, you’re likely
to send microscopic shards all over the place, which you won’t realize until
you’re walking barefoot. You might sweep the house for 7 years, and not get all
the shards.

If you have a large umbrella and you open it indoors, you might tear it as you
move it through the narrow door. Or you might knock a picture off the wall (in
that narrow hallway. Or you might even scratch the wall.

If you see a cat in the street, it might be a stray. And thus it might have
fleas. If the cat is light colored, you should be able to tell whether it is
clean or dirty (and likely to have fleas). And you should avoid dirty ones …like
the plague. Since you can’t tell if a black cat is dirty or clean, you should
avoid it, just in case it does have fleas.

Now some worry about the number 13. It is possible that some groups like frat
houses or committees work well with 12 or fewer persons but become unwieldy with
a larger number. And thus when a 13th person is added, the camaraderie (or
efficiency) suffers.  Most team sports play with fewer than 12 members.  {Bob
which ones have more?  Rowing?}

Coming soon:  Vampires.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 20
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:28:22 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Virus

Some people have nothing better to do than write programs to give other people
large migraines.
From:  Owen
        Dear Ray
       My theories are:
 1)these viruses are the rough drafts of programs that they couldn't use because
of several unintended features.  (Or even final drafts of MicroSoft programs .)
2)They are released by programmers who don't believe that copyright laws will be
obeyed.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 21
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 02:52:39 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: New Ballot for Palm Beach County

                                           VOTING FOR DUMMIES
                                                                 Presidential
Election Ballot 2000
Specifically Designed for Residents of West Palm Beach County,Florida
Check the box BENEATH (i.e. below, underneath, at the bottom of) the picture of
the candidate who you want to be the next President of the United States.
Please check the AL GORE box only

      You have chosen George W. Bush.  Are you sure you want to vote for George
W. Bush?

Yes              No (I was confused, change  my vote to Al Gore)

     You have chosen Al Gore.  Great job.  Your ability to understand complex
voting ballots is a tribute to the national education system.

You have chosen Pat Buchanan.  This candidate is NOT Al Gore.  Are you sure
you want to vote for Pat Buchanan?

      Yes              No (I was confused, change  my vote to Al Gore)

If you circled "Yes" above, do you realize that George W. Bush is NOT Al
Gore?

 Yes              No (I was confused, change  my vote to Al Gore)

     Do you wish to cast a second vote for Al Gore?

Yes         Yes

     If you circled "Yes" above, do you realize that you are throwing your vote
away?

 Yes              No (I was confused, change  my vote to Al Gore)

You really meant Al Gore, Didn't you?

Yes         Yes of Course

     How about a third?

Yes          Yes definitely

     If you circled "Yes" above - you can't be serious, so we will automatically
change your vote to Al Gore - we know that's what you meant.
 

 Referendum Vote:   Should all votes cast in this election be recast in favor of
Al Gore?

Yes                                 I'm confused

  Opinion Survey:     Do you think that the residents of West Palm Beach County,
Florida have enough common sense to elect a President of the United States?

  No                                    Huh?
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Message: 22
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:38:04 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: Adam and Eve
 

ML: Where does the Bible actually say that Adam and Eve would still be alive
today if they had not sinned?
OC: Rom 6:23 + 5:12,17.  Gen 2:17 by implication
ML: Because Adam and Eve did not physically die in the same literal day that
they sinned.
OC:  Sure they did!  If you cut a leaf off a tree, is it dead or alive?  The
cells are still alive but it is separated from its source of life, and will
soon wither and decompose.  So also A&E were separated from their source of
life and withered and died within a short time (1,000 years).  The day
before they were immortal.  The day after they were mortal.  Is that not
dying?    {I hear that the literal Hebrew grammar is "dying you shall die".}
  So also A&E were separated from God by their sin (spiritually dead) and
–without a savior- separated from God eternally in the lake of fire (second
death).
 

MARK  responds  -
Dear Owen, Romans 6:23 does not directly state anything about Adam and Eve.
Romans 5:12-17 ventures nothing about the hypothetical possibilities that
would have been contingent upon a state of perpetual innocence.  In the case
of Genesis 2:17, you acknowledge that it is a matter of implication.  I must
say that in the case of all four of these scriptures it is a question of
what might be implied and that it is necessary to ignore the issue of
predestination in order to find what you are trying to read in.  Once again,
I will cite Romans 11:32: “For God has consigned all men to disobedience,
that he may have mercy upon all”.
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Message: 23
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:43:40 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: where's the body?

STEVE  wrote   -  (25 Oct 2000, 2037)  …
Why did He rise from the dead bodily? If, as the Final Christianity crew
assert, Jesus ditched His resurrected body somewhere behind the cloud during
His ascension and became pure spirit, why rise bodily in the first place? …

MARK  writes -
Dear Steve, this is a rather crude representation of our position.  Your
cynicism is showing. When asked directly about the present whereabouts of
Jesus physical body, my answer was: “Scripture is silent on this point!  I
must believe that if we needed to know what happened to His physical body
after a cloud took Him out of the sight of his disciples we would have been
told”.  When asked a second time, I said: “As to the question whether this
scripture means that Jesus left his body behind when he ascended to heaven,
I would say no, not necessarily.  It simply means that his earthly body
became irrelevant.  Remember what Genesis 5:24 says about Enoch: “And Enoch
walked with God, and he was not, for God took him”.  What happened to
Enoch’s body?  Who knows?  All we are told is that “he was not, for God took
him”.  There’s no fanfare, no long benediction, the Word of God simply does
not pay much attention to this point”.  Since your computer was down for a
while, and I think it may have been about the time that Owen asked a series
of questions, so it is quite possible that you did not see these answers
previously.
       As for your basic question here, this is also something that has been
covered before.  It was for the sake of presenting “infallible proofs” of
his resurrection that Jesus rose bodily as he did.  I have said this from
the beginning.  Another of Owen’s questions back in August was: “Can we
separate arguments about Jesus resurrection from our own?”  My response was:
Yes, because it was utterly essential for God to demonstrate in Jesus His
conquest of death.  There is no such necessity when it comes to each one of
us”.  The consistent pattern of Scripture is that physical things are the
basis upon which spiritual things are revealed; yet the physical things are
not the object of Scripture in and of themselves.  In the case of the
resurrection, Jesus Christ was crucified in the flesh and it was necessary
for God to vindicate him in the flesh, but not in order that we might fasten
our hope upon the maintenance of the flesh.  Our hope is spiritual, yet very
real.  The exceeding and eternal weight of glory to which we are meant to
look does not consist in the things that are seen, but in the things that
are not seen.
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Message: 24
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:02:32 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: wrapping up the resurrection
 

MARY  wrote  -  (08 Nov 2000)
Hello Mark,...
  Thank you, Mark, for pointing this out. I had not been diligent enough to
check the references.  Mary
 
 

Hi, Mary.
There were times I had not been checking all the references enough also.
I also notice that in our time there isn't as much love for the Word around,
some view it as "mere theology".  It seems that too many christians let
their pastor be in charge of studying the bible, which isn't good for
anybody and can build a pastor's ego.  The more individuals learn from
scripture can be a check and a challenge to our pastors, especially those
stuck in traditions.

Similarly, in my line of work, it is valuable for me to listen to the
technicians, boat operators and mechanics who have no college degree.

Mark
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________________________________________________________________________
 

Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 481
Date:  17 Nov 2000 10:25:47 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:34:06 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: Virus historically

I'm getting a lot of mail lately.  Christmas coming up and all.
Medical stuff.  This one says, "Read This Or Die."  Hmm
Right in the middle they list some facts and one is - they say
"Life magazine recently reported that 67%
of the babies born to Gulf War veterans
    have been born deformed."
          Is this true?
Which reminds me, the book I'm reading - Modern Times by
      Paul Johnson - page 38:
"The 1918-19 influenza virus strain, a pandemic which killed
forty million people in Europe, Asia and America, was not
confined to the war areas, though it struck them the hardest."

The thing is, in W.W.I they used gases and the like.  Was this
the cause of the flu epidemic deaths?  I think 2 plus 2 is 4.
I saw a book dedicated to this subject and the author had
pictures from those days - people walking around with masks
     over their faces and all kinds of frightening stuff.
Hopefully nothing like that will happen again.  They did outlaw
the use of gases in wars - if people will "follow the rules."
    We know Hussein doesn't.
 
 

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:30:01 -0800 (PST)
   From: Jeff Benninger <chvanilla@yahoo.com>
Subject: A poem from a soldier

> 'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
> HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
> IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF
> PLASTER AND STONE.
>
> I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
> WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
> AND TO SEE JUST WHO
> IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.
>
> I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
> A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
> NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
> NOT EVEN A TREE.
>
> NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
> JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
> ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
> OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.
>
> WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
> AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
> A SOBER THOUGHT
> CAME THROUGH MY MIND.
>
> FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
> IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
> I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,
> ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.
>
> THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
> SILENT, ALONE,
> CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
> IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.
>
> THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
> THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
> NOT HOW I PICTURED
> A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.
>
> WAS THIS THE HERO
> OF WHOM I'D JUST READ?
> CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
> THE FLOOR FOR A BED?
>
> I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
> THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
> OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS
> WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.
>
> SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
> THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
> AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
> A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.
>
> THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
> EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
> BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,
> LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.
>
> I COULDN'T HELP WONDER
> HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
> ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
> IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.
>
> THE VERY THOUGHT
> BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
> I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
> AND STARTED TO CRY.
>
> THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
> AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
> "SANTA DON'T CRY,
> THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;
>
> I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
> I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,
> MY LIFE IS MY GOD,
> MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."
>
> THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
> AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
> I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,
> I CONTINUED TO WEEP.
>
> I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,
> SO SILENT AND STILL
> AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
> FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.
>
> I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE
> ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
> THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR
> SO WILLING TO FIGHT.
>
> THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
> WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,
> WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,
> IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."
>
> ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
> AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
> "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,
> AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT."
>
> This poem was written by a Marine stationed in
Okinawa Japan.
> The following is his request. I think it is
reasonable..... PLEASE.
> Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as
many people
> as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some
credit is due to our
> U.S. service men and women for our being able to
celebrate these
> festivities.
> Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of
what we owe. Make
people
> stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who
sacrificed themselves
> for us. Please, do your small part to plant this
small se
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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:28:31 -0500
   From: "Diana Clarke" <wccmnet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Laugh & Lift Daily Issue 11/16/00

*Thought for Today*

Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.

SIDE BY SIDE
(Author Unknown)

They lie on the table side by side,
The Holy Bible and the TV guide.
One is well worn and cherished with pride,
Not the Bible . . . but the TV guide.
One is used daily to help folks decide,
No, not the Bible . . . but the TV guide.
As the pages are turned, what shall they see,
Oh, what does it matter, turn on the TV.
Then confusion reigns, they can't all agree,
So they open the book in which they confide,
No, not the Bible . . . but the TV guide.
The Word of God is seldom read,
Maybe a verse as they fall into bed.
Exhausted and sleepy and tired as can be,
Not from reading the Bible . . . from watching TV.
So then back to the table side by side,
Lie the Holy Bible and the TV guide.
No time for prayer, no time for the Word,
The plan of Salvation is seldom heard.
But forgiveness of sin, so full and free,
Is found in the Bible . . . not on TV.

*The Laugh*

So What's Your Name?

    Sometimes when you have a stressful day or week, you need some silliness to
break up the day. Here is your dose...The following is an excerpt from a
children's book, "Captain Underpants and the Perilous Plot of Professor
Poopypants", by Dave Pilkey: The evil Professor forces everyone to assume new
names.....

Use the first letter of your first name to determine your NEW first name:
                  a = stinky
                  b = lumpy
                  c = buttercup
                  d = gidget
                  e = crusty
                  f = greasy
                  g = fluffy
                  h = cheeseball
                  i = chim-chim
                  j = poopsie
                  k = flunky
                  l = booger
                  m = pinky
                  n = zippy
                  o = goober
                  p = doofus
                  q = snotty
                  r = loopy
                  s = slimy
                  t = falafel
                  u = dorkey
                  v = squeezit
                  w = oprah
                  x = skipper
                  y = dinky
                  z = zsa zsa

Next, use the first letter of your last name to determine the first half of your
NEW last name:
                  a = diaper
                  b = toilet
                  c = giggle
                  d = bubble
                  e = girdle
                  f = doggy
                  g = lizard
                  h = waffle
                  i = cootie
                  j = monkey
                  k = potty
                  l = liver
                  m = banana
                  n = rhino
                  o = burger
                  p = hamster
                  q = toad
                  r = gizzard
                  s = pizza
                  t = gerbil
                  u = chicken
                  v = pickle
                  w = chuckle
                  x = tofu
                  y = gorilla
                  z = stinker

Finally, use the last letter of your last name to determine the second half of
your NEW last name:
                  a = head
                  b = mouth
                  c = face
                  d = nose
                  e = tush
                  f = breath
                  g = pants
                  h = shorts
                  i = lips
                  j = honker
                  k = hair
                  l = brain
                  m = tushie
                  n = chunks
                  o = hiney
                  p = biscuits
                  q = toes
                  r = buns
                  s = fanny
                  t = sniffer
                  u = sprinkles
                  v = kisser
                  w = flubber
                  x = humperdinck
                  y = brains
                  z = juice

     Thus, for example, George Bush's new name is Fluffy Toiletshorts. Go
figure.
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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:48:07 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Sometime Steve in responding to others comments or
viewpoints I like to address each comment individually
so that I can make clear or communicate effectively_
So here goes-
--- Steve Saxton <sksaxton@sg23.com> wrote:
> Sister Felicia,
> I write this with brotherly love and some fear that
> I may hurt you

--"If you are writing for my good and with brotherly
love then how can I be hurt? (I am not...I love to be
told the truth or pointed out a better way..)"Love
does not insist on it's own way, love does no
wrong-love bears all things believes all things ...."

and yet
> my Lord, our Lord compels me. I rejoice that He
> called you and saved you as
> He does for all His elect.

__Here I was afraid that I had not made myself clear..
I did not say I was "Saved" there--I said I found my
heavenly father...He was there I felt his presence
reassuring me calling me,,,to his son. The rosary, I
thought had great power, but yet that it just
comforted me, I held in ignorance the cross with in my
palm- My destiny to know his son. Hail Mary's were
tools I thought would help me to reach God!!! They
did! for in my ignorance and false beliefs, I believe
God was moved by my sincere heart and opened himself
to me at that point. So the building or the hail
mary's or the rosary beads did in a sense draw me to
GOD...I felt peace and quiet in that sanctuary, like
none I had ever felt. I received Jesus three years
after that, but that became the starting point of my
journey home.

 But I assure you by the
> authority of most holy
> scripture that your salvation had nothing in common
> with or anything to do
> with your holding your rosary, saying hail Marys or
> what room your body was
> in. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the
> Life, no one comes to
> the Father but by me." Not "me and my mother". God
> simply opened your heart
> to believe and you responded. Salvation is of the
> Lord...period.
> Search the scriptures sis. There is one mediator
> between God and man-only
> one.

__Ah yes...one mediator our Lord Jesus Christ.!!!!!!!

Our dear Lord paid it all and so He earned the
> right alone to do it
> all.
> Worship where you will. But regarding our salvation,
> God will not share the
> price His Son paid with anyone else. That would rob
> the cross of all its
> power.---
 

AMEN!
> I listen to my pastor and compare what he says with
> what scripture says. I
> wish I had done that while in Cobu.
> Please, sis, do the same with the teachings of your
> priests and nuns. Hold
> fast to what they say as long as it doesn't differ
> from scripture.
> God bless you.
> Yours in Christ,
> Sola Scriptura,
> Steve Saxton

Thankyou for your sincere advice and opinions and your
help!

CK
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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:34:24 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Praying for you Cathy

All I can say is that I am smiling at this!
What gifts the Lord has given us to use to benefit
mankind-through prayer and healing and loving and
forgiving.

CK
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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:54:51 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Dear Herm I must tell you now and all that I will say-
If I were to believe that erroneous doctrine of
Catholic teachings I would quite be a fool!!!!

But you cannot sit there and tell me God is not
everywhere......As Idols are too, not rosary's my
friend...clothing and radios and cars too...

God is looking on the heart carefully and watching us
everywhere---

And I can assure you of one thing, I am no fool!!!

CK
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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:03:29 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Final Karma

Tom, I do appreciate your efforts to write and
explain, I believe a lot read and will never respond
but I truly enjoy your comments, plus you make
excellent points of things....perhaps beyond some of
us too soon to grasp these meanings. I hope and pray
that you never throw in the towel on what God has
inspired you to affect.

Sincerely
CK
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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:07:27 -0800 (PST)
   From: Felicia Miller <ckmezzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Wisdom
 
 

Look for the light of God in every person.

It's easy to see people's dark side--their petty
greeds and prejudices, their selfishness and fear. The
challenge that defines our humanity is seeing the
divine in other people. In the only sense that really
matters, we are all equal; there is that of God in
every person. A Quaker of an earlier age asked: "Now
that thou knowest, what wilt thou do?" The answer
comes as quietlytand naturally as the sun's daily
rising: Follow the light within; improve yourself and
the world, as way opens.

From a Quaker Book fo Wisdom

CK
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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:23:41 EST
   From: "Mark Loftus" <mloftus955@hotmail.com>
Subject: The Beast of Revelation
 

TOM  wrote  -
I think that's the case.  Paul already knew about letters being
intercepted or misunderstood or most importantly - having
deadly consequences.  Ever since Paul wrote about Jerusalem
being in bondage - or the son of the slave - what ever it is he
said - that made Jerusalem very angry with him.  So that who
knows how many people were out for his neck literally -
(remember the daggermen).  So codifying Nero's name was
just plain good sense and it makes sense.  Though who can say
%100?  There's still room for doubt.  We don't know definitively
what was really actually meant - but that's the best guess - Nero.
Are you suggesting they dig up Nero's DNA and clone him?
Arnold Swartzenager (sp) was on TV the other night saying he thinks
cloning humans is only five years away...
 
 

No, Tom, I don't think there is any way of finding any part of Nero's body
to clone him now.  Apparently, there were christians of that time (back in
the first century) who thought he might come back to life shortly after he
first had died.  I doubt that cloning could produce the depraved spirit that
Nero had, a degree of depravity too gross to speak of.

By the way, Tom, does the changes at WWDB mean that Irv Homer is unemployed?

Mark
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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:57:58 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: The Beast of Revelation

>
> first had died.  I doubt that cloning could produce the depraved spirit that
> Nero had, a degree of depravity too gross to speak of.
>
> By the way, Tom, does the changes at WWDB mean that Irv Homer is unemployed?
>
> Mark

The cloning had to do with someone else's concerns about the beast.....
After 25 years - yes, Irv is no longer on the radio.  He started out on a
Christian station with his program.  Before that he ran a bar at K & A and
did all sorts of other things employing himself.  His radio talk show is the
first time he'd worked for someone else.
He probably is forbidden, like some of his colleagues to go to, say WPHT or
there were rumors about WPEN changing their format - but it's moot for
Homer as I think he's one of the one's with a "no competition" clause in his
contract.
Sid Mark, last weekend would have been his 45th anniversary of playing
Sinatra here in Philly.  He is syndicated on 115 stations nationwide so it's
not the end of the road for him.
Irv said, "I can devote more time to the Sunshine Foundation now"
The Sunshine Foundation raises money for children who are dying from
some incurable disease.  Irv lost a son to a similar fate.  And he's not
at home with Rabbi Kushner's sentiments (why do bad things happen
to good people).
And I didn't see Irv on Inside Story last sunday either.
Oh well....
 
 
 

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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:59:30 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Sister Felicia,
My heart is relieved and rejoices over much that you shared:

"I recieved Jesus three years
> after that, but that became the starting point of my
> journey home."

"I held in ignorance the cross with in my
> palm- My destiny to know his son. Hail Mary's were
> tools I thought would help me to reach God!!! They
> did! for in my ignorance and false beliefs, I believe
> God was moved by my sincere heart and opened himself
> to me at that point."

"Ah yes...one mediator our Lord Jesus Christ.!!!!!!!"

I also believe that God uses many means to bring us to himself. (He got me
 
 

Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 13
   Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:09:31 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: News flash...

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure
the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776)
From:  Owen
        Dear Mike
       Does that mean we can trade our 28-31% income tax, plus 15% soc sec tax,
plus sales taxes, and gas taxes, for a 3% tax on tea??  YEAH!  Long live the
Queen!

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:20:22 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: USS Cole

Clinton addressed the nation using the identical words he uttered in 1996 when
19 U.S. airmen were killed by terrorists in Saudi Arabia -- "a despicable and
cowardly act" -- followed by the now well-worn threat that
From:  Owen
        Dear ?
       While Clinton may be an expert on cowardice, I think he is lying when he
calls men who attack, while facing certain death, "cowards".  After all they
attacked a military target: the USS Cole.  For the first time in their lives
these guys weren't attacking civilians.  I don't believe that terrorism is the
right term.  Wouldn't "act of war" be accurate?
          If you have a beef with our foreign policy, instead of killing
tourists in wheelchairs*, be brave and take on our navy.

*Leon Klinghoffer who was on the cruise ship "Achille Lauro" when he was killed
by Arafat's men

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:18:10 -0500
   From: Sandra A Bloomfield <Sabbylove@Juno.com>
Subject: Re: John Ams for President!!

Whey!  I was feeling a little lonely in here. ;~D

In any case, this whole political thing is really quite interesting.  We
all chose and vote for who we believe with match actions with the
"words".  But when all is said and done, all of the candidates are gaming
us to some degree.

I know some may get offended by this forum at times, but it helps me to
remember that everyone is stating an opinion.  And an opinion is just
that.

Peace All!
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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:54:08 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Sister Felicia,
(I may have sent part of this out already-if so please forgive me-this one
is the whole thing)

My heart is relieved and rejoices over much that you shared:

"I recieved Jesus three years
> after that, but that became the starting point of my
> journey home."

"I held in ignorance the cross with in my
> palm- My destiny to know his son. Hail Mary's were
> tools I thought would help me to reach God!!! They
> did! for in my ignorance and false beliefs, I believe
> God was moved by my sincere heart and opened himself
> to me at that point."

"Ah yes...one mediator our Lord Jesus Christ.!!!!!!!"

These thoughts you expressed have relieved some concerns I had for you sis.

I also believe that God uses many means to bring us to himself. (He got me
intimately involved with Him through Cobu).
My main concern is that you "follow the truth"-that your hope is in Christ
alone and not "Christ and..." I took some of your reply to indicate that you
are aware of elements in Catholic doctrine that cannot be politely called
anything other than faulty teaching. And as the saying goes, forewarned is
forearmed.

May the Holy Spirit guide you into all the truth in your daily walk with
Christ.

God bless you sis.

Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:57:19 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: News flash...

Brother Owen,
You funny guy, bro-heh, heh, heh : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 18
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:59:01 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Fw: Quote

Thought this was pretty good bro's and sis's.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:01:27 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Fw: Good one!!

Bro's and sis's,
Good one : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 20
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:12:11 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Election Funny

Sister Diana,
Good one sis : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 22
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:37:32 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: where's the body?

Brother Mark,
Regarding your comment: "Another of Owen's questions back in August was:
"Can we separate arguments about Jesus resurrection from our own?"  My response was:
Yes, because it was utterly essential for God to demonstrate in Jesus His
conquest of death.  There is no such necessity when it comes to each one of
us".

Sorry bro, but I have to give you a big "says you" on this bit of blasé
rationalization.
Remember the verse O death where is thy sting-sounds like God considered us
conquering death to be more than a passing fancy. Also Jn. 3:13 gives one
pause: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from
heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven". Son of man is a very
specific title. A flesh and blood title.

I have no intention of trying to hide cynicism. It is clear to me you are
preaching another gospel and that gets my dander up.

You conveniently say that scripture is silent about what happened to Jesus'
body when the cloud took Him out of sight but you are very confident that He
did become pure spirit when He arrived in Heaven and no longer had His
physical body.
Since "Scripture is silent on this point!, how do you arrive at a bodiless
Jesus in Heaven? If not scripture, what proof do you offer?

When I say "physical" I am referring to the glorified body that Jesus had
when He came out of the grave.

I have included a few excerpts from a sermon by brother Spurgeon about the
resurrection of the dead:

I offer them for our mutual encouragement and to build up the saints on the
onelist.

The New Park Street Pulpit
The Resurrection of the Dead
A Sermon
(No. 66)
Delivered on Sabbath Morning, February 17, 1856, by the
REV. C.H. SPURGEON
At New Park Street Chapel, Southwark.
"There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both the of the just and
unjust."-Acts 24:15.
Reflecting the other day upon the sad state of the churches at the present
moment, I was led to look back to apostolic times, and to consider wherein
the preaching of the present day differed from the preaching of the
apostles. I remarked the vast difference in their style from the set and
formal oratory of the present age. I remarked that the apostles did not take
a text when they preached, nor did they confine themselves to one subject,
much less to any place of worship, but I find that they stood up in any
place and declared from the fulness of their heart what they knew of Jesus
Christ. But the main difference I observed was in the subjects of their
preaching. Surprised I was when I discovered that the very staple of the
preaching of the apostles was the resurrection of the dead. I found myself
to have been preaching the doctrine of the grace of God, to have been
upholding free election, to have been leading the people of God as well as I
was enabled into the deep things of his word; but I was surprised to find
that I had not been copying the apostolic fashion half as nearly as I might
have done. The apostles when they preached always testified concerning the
resurrection of Jesus, and the consequent resurrection of the dead. It
appears that the Alpha and the Omega of their gospel was the testimony that
Jesus Christ died and rose again from the dead according to the
Scriptures...
     There are very few Christians who believe the resurrection of the dead.
You may be surprised to hear that, but I should not wonder if I discovered
that you yourself have doubts on the subject. By the resurrection of the
dead is meant something very different from the immortality of the soul:
that, every Christian believes, and therein is only on a level with the
heathen, who believes it too. The light of nature is sufficient to tell us
that the soul is immortal, so that the infidel who doubts it is a worse fool
even than a heathen, for he, before Revelation was given, had discovered
it-there are some faint glimmerings in men of reason which teach that the
soul is something so wonderful that it must endure forever. But the
resurrection of the dead is quite another doctrine, dealing not with the
soul, but with the body. The doctrine is that this actual body in which I
now exist is to live with my soul; that not only is the "vital spark of
heavenly flame" to burn in heaven, but the very censer in which the incense
of my life doth smoke is holy unto the Lord, and is to be preserved for
ever. The spirit, every one confesses, is eternal; but how many there are
who deny that the bodies of men will actually start up from their graves at
the great day? Many of you believe you will have a body in heaven, but you
think it will be an airy fantastic body, instead of believing that it will
be a body like to this-flesh and blood (although not the same kind of flesh,
for all flesh is not the same flesh), a solid, substantial body, even such
as we have here. And there are yet fewer of you who believe that the wicked
will have bodies in hell; for it is gaining ground everywhere that there are
to be no positive torments for the damned in hell to affect their bodies,
but that it is to be metaphorical fire, metaphorical brimstone, metaphorical
chains, metaphorical torture. But if ye were Christians as ye profess to be,
ye would believe that every mortal man who ever existed shall not only live
by the immortality of his soul, but his body shall live again, that the very
flesh in which he now walks the earth is as eternal as the soul, and shall
exist for ever. That is the peculiar doctrine of Christianity. The heathens
never guessed or imagined such a thing; and consequently when Paul spoke of
the resurrection of the dead, "Some mocked," which proves that they
understood him to speak of the resurrection of the body, for they would not
have mocked had he only spoken of the immortality of the soul, that having
been already proclaimed by Plato and Socrates, and received with
reverence...

     The first proof I will offer of this, is, that it has been the constant
and unvarying faith of the saints from the earliest periods of time. Abraham
believed the resurrection of the dead, for it is said in the Epistle to the
Hebrews, chapter 11 verse 19, that he "accounted that God was able to raise
up Isaac even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."
I have no doubt that Joseph believed in the resurrection, for he gave
commandment concerning his bones; and surely he would not have been so
careful of his body if he had not believed that it should be raised from the
dead. The Patriarch Job was a firm believer in it, for he said in that oft
repeated text, Job. xix. 25, 26: "For I know that my Redeemer liveth; and
that he shall stand at the latter-day upon the earth: and though after my
skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God." David
believed it beyond the shadow of a doubt, for he sang of Christ, "Thou wilt
not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine holy one to see
corruption." Daniel believed it, for he said, that "Many who sleep in the
dust shall rise, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting
contempt." Souls do not sleep in the dust; bodies do. It will do you good to
turn to one or two passages and see what these holy men thought. For
instance, in Isaiah, ch. xxvi. 19, you read: "Thy dead men shall live,
together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake, and sing, ye that dwell
in the dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast
out the dead." We will offer no explanation. The text is positive and sure.
Let another prophet speak-Hosea, ch. vi. verses 1 and 2: "Come and let us
return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten
and he will bind us up. After two days he will revive us; in the third day
he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." Although this does not
declare the resurrection, yet it uses it as a figure which it would not do
were it not regarded as a settled truth. It is declared by Paul, also, in
Hebrews xi. 35, that such was the constant faith of the martyrs; for he
says, "Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might
obtain a better resurrection." All those holy men and women, who, during the
 time of the Maccabees, stood fast by their faith, and endured the fire and
sword, and tortures unutterable, believed in the resurrection, and that
resurrection stimulated them to give their bodies to the flames, not caring
even for death, but believing that thereby they should attain to a blessed
resurrection. But our Saviour brought the resurrection to light in the most
excellent manner, for he explicitly and frequently declared it. "Marvel
not," said he, "at what I have said unto you. Behold the hour cometh when
they that are in their graves shall hear the voice of God." "The hour is
coming when he will call the dead to judgment, and they shall stand before
his throne." Indeed, throughout his preaching, there was one continued flow
of firm belief, and a public and positive declaration of the resurrection of
the dead. I will not trouble you with any passages from the writings of the
Apostles; they abound therewith. In fact, Holy Scripture is so full of this
doctrine that I marvel, brethren, that we should so soon have departed from
the steadfastness of our faith, and that it should be believed in many
churches that the actual bodies of the saints will not live again, and
especially that the bodies of the wicked will not have a future existence.
We maintain as our text doth, that "there shall be a resurrection of the
dead, both of the just and unjust."

     A second proof, we think, we find in the translation of Enoch and
Elijah to heaven. We read of two men who went to heaven in their bodies.
Enoch "was not; for God took him;" and Elijah was carried to heaven in a
chariot of fire. Neither of these men left his ashes in the grave: neither
left his body to be consumed by the worm, but both of them in their mortal
frames (changed and glorified doubtless) ascended up on high. Now, those two
were the pledge to us that all of us shall rise in the same manner. Would it
be likely that two bright spirits would sit in heaven clothed in flesh,
while the rest of us were unclothed? Would it be at all reasonable that
Enoch and Elijah should be the only saints who should have their bodies in
heaven, and that we should be there only in our souls-poor souls! longing to
have our bodies again. No; our faith tells us that these two men having
safely gone to heaven, as John Bunyan hath it, by a bridge that no one else
trod, by which they were not under the necessity to wade the river, we shall
also rise from the flood, and our flesh shall not for ever dwell with
corruption.
 

     There is a remarkable passage in Jude, where it speaks of Michael the
Archangel contending with the devil about the body of Moses, and using no
"railing accusation." Now, this refers to the great doctrine of angels
watching over the bones of the saints. Certainly, it tells us that the body
of Moses was watched over by a great archangel; the devil thought to disturb
that body, but Michael contended with him about it. Now would there be a
contention about that body if it had been of no value? Would Michael contend
for that which was only to be the food of worms? Would he wrestle with the
enemy for that which was to be scattered to the four winds of heaven, never
to be united again into a new and goodlier fabric? No; assuredly not. From
this we learn that an angel watches over every tomb. It is no fiction, when
on the marble we carve the cherubs with their wings. There are cherubs with
outstretched wings over the head of the grave-stones of all the righteous;
ay, and where "the rude forefathers of the hamlet sleep," in some nook
o'ergrown by nettles, there an angel standeth night and day to watch each
bone and guard each atom, that at the resurrection those bodies, with more
glory than they had on earth, may start up to dwell for ever with the Lord.
The guardianship of the bodies of the saints by angels proves that they
shall rise again from the dead...
     But the master argument with which we close our proof is that Christ
rose from the dead, and verily his people shall. The chapter which we read
at the commencement of the service is proof to a demonstration that if
Christ rose from the dead all his people must; that if there be no
resurrection, then is Christ not risen. But I will not long dwell on this
proof, because I know you all feel its power, and there is no need for me to
bring it out clearly. As Christ actually rose from the dead-flesh and blood,
so shall we. Christ was not a spirit when he rose from the dead; his body
could be touched. Did not Thomas put his hand into his side? and did not
Christ say, "Handle me, and see. A spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see
me have." And if we are to rise as Christ did-and we are taught so-then we
shall rise in our bodies-not spirits, not fine aerial things, made of I know
not what-some very refined and elastic substance; but "as the Lord our
Saviour rose, so all his followers must." We shall rise in our flesh,
"though all flesh is not the same flesh;" we shall rise in our bodies,
though all bodies are not the same bodies; and we shall rise in glory,
though all glories are not the same glories. "There is one flesh of man and
another of beasts;" and there is one flesh of this body, and another flesh
of the heavenly body. There is one body for the soul here, and another body
for the spirit up there; and yet it shall be the same body that will rise
again from the grave-the same I say in identity, though not in glory or in
adaptation.

     Now, will you believe this doctrine or not? If you will not, you are
excommunicate from the faith. This is the faith of the Gospel; and if you do
not believe it you have not yet received the Gospel. "For if the dead rise
not, then your faith is vain, and ye are yet in your sins." The dead in
Christ shall rise, and they shall rise first.

     II. But now we come to the RESURRECTION OF THE WICKED. Will the wicked
rise too? Here is a point of controversy. I shall have some hard things to
say now: I may detain you long, but I beg you, nevertheless, hearken to me.
Yea, the wicked shall rise.

      The first proof is given in the 2nd Epistle to the Corinthians, ch. v.
10. "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one
may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done,
whether it be good or bad." Now, since we are all to appear, the wicked must
appear, and they will receive the deeds done in the body. Since the body
sins, it is only natural that the body should be punished. It would be
unjust to punish the soul and not the body, for the body has had as much to
do with sin as ever the soul has had. But wherever I go now, I hear it said,
"The ministers in old times were wont to say there was fire in hell for our
bodies, but it is not so; it is metaphorical fire, fancied fire." Ah! it is
not so. Ye shall receive the things done in your body. Though your souls
shall be punished, your bodies will be punished as well. Ye who are sensual
and devilish, do not care about your souls being punished, because you never
think about your souls; but if I tell you of bodily punishment you will
think of it far more. Christ may have said that the soul should be punished;
but he far more frequently described the body in misery in order to impress
his hearers, for he knew that they were sensual and devilish, and that
nothing that did not affect the body would touch them in the least. "We must
all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, to receive the things done in
the body according to what we have done, whether it be good or evil."

     But this is not the only text to prove the doctrine, I will give you a
better one-Matt. v. 29. "If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and
cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members
should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."-not
"thy whole soul," but "thy whole body." Man, this does not say that thy soul
shall be in hell-that is affirmed many times-but it positively declares that
thy body shall. That same body which is now standing in the aisle, or
sitting in the pew, if thou diest without Christ, shall burn for ever in the
flames of hell. It is not a fancy of man, but a truth that thy actual flesh
and blood, and those very bones shall suffer: "thy whole body shall be cast
into hell."

     But lest that one proof should not suffice thee, hear another out of
the same gospel-chapter 10:28. "Fear not them which kill the body, but are
not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both
soul and body in hell." Hell will be the place for bodies as well as for
souls. As I have remarked, wherever Christ speaks of hell and of the lost
state of the wicked, he always speaks of their bodies; you scarcely find him
saying anything about their souls. He says, "Where their worm dieth not,"
which is a figure of physical suffering-the worm torturing for ever the
inmost heart, like a cancer within the very soul. He speaks of the "fire
that never shall be quenched." Now, do not begin telling me that this is
metaphorical fire: who cares for that? If a man were to threaten to give me
a metaphorical blow on the head, I should care very little about it; he
would be welcome to give me as many as he pleased. And what say the wicked?
"We do not care about metaphorical fires." But they are real, sir-yes, as
real as yourself. There is a real fire in hell, as truly as you have now a
real body-a fire exactly like that which we have on earth in everything
except this-that it will not consume, though it will torture you. You have
seen the asbestos lying in the fire red hot, but when you take it out it is
unconsumed. So your body will be prepared by God in such a way that it will
burn for ever without being consumed; it will lie, not as you consider, in a
metaphorical fire, but in actual flame. Did our Saviour mean fictions when
he said he would cast body and soul into hell? What should there be a pit
for if there were no bodies? Why fire, why chains, if there were to be no
bodies? Can fire touch the soul? Can pits shut in spirits? Can chains fetter
souls? No; pits and fire and chains are for bodies, and bodies shall be
there. Thou wilt sleep in the dust a little while. When thou diest thy soul
will be tormented alone-that will be a hell for it-but at the day of
judgment thy body will join thy soul, and then thou wilt have twin hells,
body and soul shall be together, each brimfull of pain, thy soul sweating in
its inmost pore drops of blood, and thy body from head to foot suffused with
agony; conscience, judgment, memory, all tortured, but more-thy head
tormented with racking pains, thine eyes starting from their sockets with
sights of blood and woe; thine ears tormented with
"Sullen moans and hollow groans.
And shrieks of tortured ghosts."

I add my hearty Amen! to brother Spurgeon's message.

Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 23
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:42:00 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: humor

From:  Owen
        Dear Folks
       Saying of the Day

  If your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing, you should
consider getting a job in government.     - Unknown

****************** D A I L Y  C H U C K L E ************************
   Good Grades

  Little Bobby wasn't getting good grades in school.    One day he surprised his
teacher when he tapped her on   the shoulder and said:  'I don't want to scare
you, but my daddy says if I don't get better grades, somebody is going to get a
spanking!'

  Submitted by Cindy

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 24
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:15:36 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: Adam and Eve

Romans 5:12-17 ventures nothing about    / Romans 6:23 does not
From:  Owen
        Dear Mark
       Romans 5:12: "...sin entered the world through one man, [Adam] and death
through sin,...".  Or to paraphrase "death (through sin) entered the world
through one man".   What is unclear?
Romans 6:23:(paraphrase) "death is the wages of sin."  So if there is no sin
there should be no death.        If fallen man lived 900+ years, how long would
"perpetually innocent" man have lived?  In your opinion.
        I admit that this is a hypothetical question and we shouldn't go too far
with hypotheticals. it is necessary to ignore the issue of predestination in order to find what you
are trying to read in
OC: Since we're dealing with hypotheticals, why couldn't those who are
predestined, have all been born in the garden and lived forever and filled the
earth?
Romans 11:32: "God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy
upon all"
OC: No problem.  God allowed the fall in "order ...[to] show the....riches of
his grace..." (Eph 2:7)

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
  ________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 25
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:24:40 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: Re: where's the body?

but not in order that we might fasten our hope upon the maintenance of the
flesh.  Our hope is spiritual, yet very real.  The exceeding and eternal weight
of glory to which we are meant to look does not consist in the things that are
seen, but in the things that are not seen.
From:  Owen
        Dear Mark
       Amen!

    Why does 1Thess 4:16 say that at the second coming "the dead in Christ will
rise"?  Aren't their spirits already in heaven?    BTW: This is a difference in
our understanding not a difference in our hope.
Sidenote:      At the transfiguration, Moses (who was buried across the Jordan
river) and Elijah (who was taken up bodily) both appeared.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
  ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 482
Date:  18 Nov 2000 10:04:23 -0000
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:23:41 EST
   From: mgriffo@aol.com
Subject: World Series Recount Demanded (humor)

> Subject:  World Series Recount Demanded
>
> > NEW YORK (AP) --The New York Mets announced today that they are
> > going to court to get an additional inning added to the end of Game 5
> of the World Series.
> >
> > The batting, pitching, and bench coaches for the Mets held a press
> > conference earlier today. They were joined by members of the
> > Major League Players Union.
> >
> > "We meant to hit those pitches from the Yankee pitchers," said the
> > Mets batting coach. "We were confused by the irregularities of the
> > pitches we received and believe we have been denied our right to hit."
> >
> > One claim specifically noted that a small percentage of the Mets
> > batters had intended to swing at fast balls, but actually swung at
> curve balls.
> >
> > It was clear that these batters never intended to swing at curve
> > balls, though a much higher percentage were not confused by the
> pitches.
> >
> > Reporters at the press conference pointed out that the Mets had
> > extensively reviewed film of the Yankees pitchers prior to the World
> > Series and had in fact faced the Yankees in inter-league play earlier
> in the year.
> >
> > "The fact remains that some of the pitches confused us and denied us of
> > our right to hit," said the Mets batting coach. "The World Series is
> > not over yet and the Yankees are celebrating prematurely."
> >
> > Major League Baseball has reviewed the telecast of all the World
> > Series games and recounted the balls and strikes called by the umpires
> > of each game.
> >
> > "While some of the strikes called against the Mets were, in fact,
> > balls, there were not enough of them to change the outcome of the World
> > Series," the commissioner said.
> >
> > Another portion of the Mets legal claim stated that, based on
> > on-base percentage, the Mets had actually won the World Series,
> > regardless of the final scores of the games. "It's clear that we were
> > slightly on-base more often than the Yankees," said a Mets spokesman.
> > "The World Series crown is rightly ours."
> >
> > The manager of the Mets has remained in relative seclusion, engaging in
> > some light jogging for exercise. He has stated that he believes "we
> > need to let the process run its course without a rush to judgment."
 

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Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:49:41 PST
   From: "Sohm Ving" <ving3@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: Fw: Please Pass this on for a special little girl
 
 

>From: claude a pelkey <capelk@juno.com>
>To: <montoya@integrity.com>
>FROM CLAUDE PELKEY

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is a remarkable writing for someone so young
> > > > > > > > ....however, her situation brings great insight that we
> > > > > > > > can all learn from.
> > > > > > > > Very moving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This poem written by a terminally ill young girl in a New
> > > > > > > > York Hospital. It was sent by a medical doctor
> > > > > > > >  - Dr. Yeou Cheng Ma.
> > > > > > > > Please do what you can to help fulfill this young
> > > > > > > > girl's dream by also reading what is in the closing
> > > > > > > > statement AFTER THE POEM.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SLOW DANCE
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Have you ever watched kids
> > > > > > > > On a merry-go-round?
> > > > > > > > Or listened to the rain
> > > > > > > > Slapping on the ground?
> > > > > > > > Ever followed a butterfly's erratic flight?
> > > > > > > > Or gazed at the sun into the fading night?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You better slow down.
> > > > > > > > Don't dance so fast.
> > > > > > > > Time is short.
> > > > > > > > The music won't last.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do you run through each day
> > > > > > > > On the fly?
> > > > > > > > When you ask "How are you?"
> > > > > > > > Do you hear the reply?
> > > > > > > > When the day is done
> > > > > > > > Do you lie in your bed
> > > > > > > > With the next hundred chores
> > > > > > > > Running through your head?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You'd better slow down
> > > > > > > > Don't dance so fast.
> > > > > > > > Time is short.
> > > > > > > > The music won't last.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ever told your child,
> > > > > > > > We'll do it tomorrow?
> > > > > > > > And in your haste,
> > > > > > > > Not see his sorrow?
> > > > > > > > Ever lost touch,
> > > > > > > > Let a good friendship die
> > > > > > > > Cause you never had time
> > > > > > > > To call and say "Hi"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You'd better slow down.
> > > > > > > > Don't dance so fast.
> > > > > > > > Time is short.
> > > > > > > > The music won't last.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When you run so fast to get somewhere
> > > > > > > > You miss half the fun of getting there.
> > > > > > > > When you worry and hurry through your day,
> > > > > > > > It is like an unopened gift....
> > > > > > > > Thrown away.
> > > > > > > > Life is not a race.
> > > > > > > > Do take it slower
> > > > > > > > Hear the music
> > > > > > > > Before the song is over.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO HELP THIS LITTLE GIRL ALL FORWARDED
> > > > > > > > E-MAILS
> > > > > > > > ARE TRACKED TO OBTAIN THE TOTAL COUNT.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear All:
> > > > > > > > PLEASE pass this mail on to everybody you know. It is the
> > request
> > > > > > > > of a special little girl who will soon leave this world as
> > she
> > has
> > > > > > > > cancer. Thank you for your effort, this isn't a chain
>letter,
> > > > > > > > but a choice for all of us to save a little girl that's
>dying
> > of
> > a
> > > > > > > > serious and fatal form of cancer. Please send this to
> > everyone
> > you
> > > > > > > > know...or don't know. This little girl has 6 months left to
> > live,
> > > > > > > > and as her dying wish, she wanted to send a letter telling
> > > >everyone
> > > >to
> > > > > > > > live their life to the fullest,since she never will.She'll
> > never
> > > >make
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > to prom, graduate from high school, or get married and have
>a
> > > >family
> > > > > > > > of her own.
> > > > > > > > By you sending this to as many people as possible, you can
> > > > > > > > give her and her family a little hope, because with every
> > name
> > > >that
> > > > > > > > this is sent to,
> > > > > > > > The American Cancer Society will donate 3 cents per name to
> > her
> > > > > > > > treatment and recovery plan. One guy sent this to 500
> > people!!!!
> > > > > > > > So I know that we can send it to at least 5 or 6. Just think
> > it
> > > >could
> > > > > > > > be you one day. It's not even your money, just your time!!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "PLEASE PASS ON AS A LAST REQUEST"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dr. Dennis Shields, Professor
> > > > > > > > Department of Developmental and Molecular Biology
> > > > > > > > Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University
> > > > > > > > 1300 Morris Park Avenue
> > > > > > > > Bronx, New York 10461
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:31:05 -0500
   From: bsp15@juno.com
Subject: Re: New Ballot for Palm Beach County

This was hilarious, Diana. Thanks for sending it.

"Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged,
for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go" (Josh. 1:9).
Bob San Pascual
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Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:25:04 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Lenin like ST; surprising? not at all.

I have this big thick book - as I said, there were some descriptions
of Lenin that sound a lot like you know who.  Why is that?
Abusive men think alike?

words p76
Throughout his career, Lenin showed a brilliant if sinister
genius for investing words and expressions with special
meanings which suited his political purposes - ...

isolation p58
His isolation from people, his indifference to them, gave him
a certain massive integrity and consistency.  In one way it
was a weakness: he never knew what people were actually going
to do - that was why he was continually surprised by events,
both before and after he came to power.  But it was also his
strength.  His absolute self-confidence and masterful will
were never, for a moment, eroded by tactical calculations as
to how people were likely to react.

teflon p53
He brushed aside the attacks, which never seem to have caused
him to pause or reconsider for one second.  There was no chink
in his self-armour.

receptacles p51
He saw the people with whom he dealt, his comrades, not as
individuals but as receptacles for his ideas.  On that basis,
and on no other, they were judged.  So he had no hierarchy of
friendships; no friendships in fact, merely ideological
alliances.  He judged men not by their moral qualities but by
their views, or rather the degree to which they accepted his.

state of Cobu p80
...that summer marked the extinction of visible political
opposition in Lenin's state.  He had given non-Communists the
(non Cobu conformers) the choice that still faces them today
sixty years later: acquiescent silence, prison or exile.

control p89
As usual, Lenin thought entirely in terms of control; not of
production.  He thought that provided he got the system of control
right, the results would flow inevitably.  He was wholly ignorant
of the process whereby wealth is created. (JD said ST ruined
the Carpet Cleaning Business, the Van Business, etc. as he
mustered more and more control - he destroyed them with his greed)

labeling p70
He was ceasing to be interested in what a man did or had done -
let alone why he had done it - and was first encouraging, then
commanding, his repressive apparatus to hunt down people, and
destroy them, not on the basis of crimes, real or imaginary,
but on the basis of generalizations, hearsay, rumours.  First
came condemned categories... The watershed was Lenin's decree
of January 1918 calling on the agencies of the state to 'purge
the Russian land of all kinds of harmful insects'...

commitment p132 (this is Hitler)
'Hitler never really makes a political speech, only philosophical
ones.'  In fact he did not so much outline a programme and make
promises as demand a commitment.

These quotes are from the pages of - - - -
MODERN TIMES: THE WORLD FROM THE TWENTIES TO THE NINETIES
by Paul Johnson
published in 1983 and named one of the best books of the
year by the New York Times.  (page numbers from the paperback)
 
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 483
Date:  19 Nov 2000 14:42:57 -0000

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Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:08:48 -0500 (EST)
   From: WandaPerDieu@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

It is my personal opinion that spirituality is a personal experience,
having little to do with religion and a particular faith. Who's to say
what the "right" way is. It seems to me that it is more likely  there
are different avenues (rather than just one) to fulfilling what God
wants for us all . I think its pretty presumptuous for a faith to say
..Our way is the only way .....who are we to say that? It seems
close-minded to me and I dont think that is what God wants from us at
all .
Wanda
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Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:39:13 -0500 (EST)
   From: WandaPerDieu@webtv.net
Subject: Re: re: latest totals on the election...

This election is an interesting phenomenon. On the one hand , it seems
as if the people of this country didn't find either candidate really what
they wanted and so they just picked the best of the worst that was
offered. On the other hand, its interesting to me that this is what our
constitution - written so many years ago- was addressing when it came to
voting our leaders in. Its interesting to see the process work . I
personally voted for Nader because my vote cast for Gore in the state of
Va would have been a waste. Va hasn't carried a demo candidate for pres
since Johnson. And also I wanted to cast my vote for a request for more
third party candidates that can have a real chance  when they run . I
might as well just tell everyone up front that politically I am a die
hard liberal and proudly so!!! I believe in pro- choice , public schools
and not vouchers , universal health care, prescription drug plan for
medicare, leaving social security alone and on and on and on LOL . I
dont think that people that disagree with my views however are not good
people that dont care about our country . I just think their idea of
what is good for the country is not the same as mine .
As far as the Florida situation goes, I think it was absolutely
appropriate for the ballots to be looked at carefully and recounted .
After all, the margin was so slim . Thats why we have laws - to address
issues like this when they come up . I hope Gore wins but I doubt that
will happen ..... Soooooo I guess I will start practicin saying Pres
Bush ...yikes!!!! I was hoping those words would never have to come from
my mouth again!!! LOL .
Wanda
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Message: 11
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:29:49 -0500 (EST)
   From: WandaPerDieu@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Wisdom

I thought this was extremely well said!!!
Wanda
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Message: 12
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:42:35 -0500
   From: "Cathy B." <cathy@ezonline.com>
Subject: God Loves a Cheerful Giver
 

GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER

Church finances were a little tight, so the pastor took extra
time this particular Sunday to emphasize the importance of
everyone giving their tithes and offerings.  He went on to
challenge the people to give enthusiastically because II
Corinthians 9:7 says, "God loves a cheerful giver."

As the plate was passed, a little boy in the second pew,
quickly slipped off his neck tie and placed it into the offering
plate.  His mother, absolutely mortified, asked him what in the
world he thought he was doing. The boy replied, "The pastor said
put your ties in the offering plate and do it joyfully.  I love that
man!"
 
 

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Message: 13
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:53:56 -0500
   From: "Cathy B." <cathy@ezonline.com>
Subject: The Visitor

THE VISITOR

One day, a man went to visit a church.  He arrived early, parked his car,
and got out.  Another car pulled up near him, and the driver told him, "I
always park there. You took my place!"

The visitor went inside for Sunday School, found an empty seat, and sat
down.  A young lady from the church approached him and stated, "That's my
seat!  You took my place!"

The visitor was somewhat distressed by this rude welcome, but said nothing.
 After Sunday School, the visitor went into the church sanctuary and sat
down.  Another member walked up to him and said, "That's where I always
sit. You took my place!"  The visitor was even more  troubled by this
treatment, but still said nothing.

Later, as the congregation was praying for Christ to dwell among them, the
visitor stood, and his appearance began to change.  Horrible scars became
visible on his hands and on his sandaled feet.  Someone from the
congregation noticed him and called out, "What happened to you?"

The visitor replied, "I took your place. "
 
 

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Message: 14
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:54:12 -0500 (EST)
   From: WandaPerDieu@webtv.net
Subject: Re: UPDATE NOV 14th

Thanks for the welcome Lori!! Yes, I am still in Va with Chris (who is
now 24) and Mary (now 14). I hope that life finds you well and happy . I
have often thought of you and have very fond memories of the times we
spent together .
Wanda
 
 

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Message: 17
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:06:46 EST
   From: cbHIMtg@cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

In a message dated 11/14/2000 5:23:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tpierron@Op.Net writes:

<<  I'm sure as a Christian you won't
 > want to knowingly condone & defend idolatry. It is more a matter for
weeping & praying for those who caught in this deception.

 How many times must one shoot a dead horse?
 How many times must one say something till it sinks in?
 The answer my friend, is many many times
 the answer is many, many times....

 Wake up and smell the coffee.  These people believe in God.
 They don't go for the crap either.  They go for God in a particular
 house of worship.  I don't think they'd go jot and tittle for everything
 where you go either.  And perhaps even you don't either.
 No place is perfect. " Is this getting hit over the head lessons?
 No, you want the ten minute argument.....
 Good morning! "
 (john cleese)
 Why must you worship at the altar of correct teaching?
 I gave that up for lent.
 And left it in a far away place that feels oh so close now....
 Dear brother, will you give it up?

  >>
Hi Tom, seems you gave up wanting correct teaching not only for lent, but for
every day of the year. Unfortunately you associate any attempt to defend
correct teaching with ST teaching, which we defended as true bible
interpretation. Now any attempt by anyone to promote sound teaching is met
with scorn & they are painted as having ST's spirit. if someone you knew was
drinking from a water supply that had crap in it would you warn them about
it? You called it crap & said RC members know it's crap. So why then are they
staying in a crappy place???  Moreover why are you defending the stance to
remain in a place full of crappy teaching as OK? according to you it's just
another place of worship, & God doesn't mind how you worship as long as
you're sincere,(1st JOHN CLEESE 3:16)??? Our Father doesn't want his children
to eat crap, does He? That's one reason why He rescued us from Cobu. Does it
sink in yet?

                                                                Herm
 
 
 
 

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Message: 18
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:50:41 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Two things (and you know I could go on ad nauseam):
   1. The faith you have, keep between yourself and God.
2. When you find a perfect church - don't you dare become a member...
  I must say, the things the sisters have been saying lately are more in
     tune with the loving, accepting heart and spirit of Jesus Christ.
I don't relish all the stuff I've written - but in defense of my defending,
I feel that brethren are brethren and don't need someone... whatever....
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Message: 19
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:01:46 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: where's the body?

Brother Owen,
Excellent question. Can't wait to hear the reply.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 20
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:07:08 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Laugh & Lift Daily Issue 11/16/00

Sister Diana,
Just call me slimy pizza chunks : )
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
  ________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 21
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:19:16 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: wrapping up the resurrection

Brother Herm,
Well said bro.
Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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Message: 22
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:57:43 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: irony
 

From:  Owen
        Dear All
       If the Dems had not been so fanatical in their defense of Clinton during
impeachment, Gore might have been campaigning as an incumbent (and may have been
able to separate himself from the Clinton baggage) and might have won.  So their
clinging to Clinton might be his undoing.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net

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Message: 23
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:04:04 EST
   From: Gjude20@aol.com
Subject: Re: re: latest totals on the election...

In a message dated 11/18/00 11:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
WandaPerDieu@webtv.net writes:

<< people that dont care about our country . I just think their idea of
 what is good for the country is not the same as mine .
 As far  >>
Dear friend, Ideas eventually become realities, if the people who promote
them gain power.  If you help to elect people who promote inferior or evil
ideas, then you bear part of the responsibility for the world darkening.  I
really don't understand how you can glibly say you are pro-baby-murder and
that it is just different idea.  If the salt or ripping device had entered
your mother's womb before your birth, you would not exist to promote such
choices.  I urge you to repent for such a post.  Ed
 

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Message: 25
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:47:19 -0500
   From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>
Subject: view of our country

> Received from a friend "down under"  (Australia).. interesting how others
> view our country.
> CS

Out of all the weaponry and nuclear capabilities around the globe
guess which is the only country to ever use it?
    Twice.
Don't mess with us.  We're not wrapped too tight.
Although many European countries got it right - if you're stopped
 drinking and driving you know where they put you?
    In the insane asylum.
         Why?
Because if you're going to try and drive after drinking you
  obviously must be insane.
But think about all the countries with nuclear arms.
We wonder and worry.  And you can bet they wonder and
worry about us.  They don't have to worry about us pushing
the button.  They already KNOW we'll do it.  It's just a
question of WHEN we'll do it again.  No one else has ever
destroyed so many civilians than Uncle Sam with two single
           blasts.
Still, it's more of a Mexican standoff/ cold war...
And then again - we have "watering holes" (bars) open till
     2 AM and let the patrons drive home.
It is said the Russian Premier would have too much vodka and
  often have to be restrained from "pushing the button."
And one more aside: Norway or Sweden were putting a satellite
into space.  They sent word to all the world powers.  Well, the
   message sent to Russia ended up under a pile of papers.
So when the Norwegian missile went into the sky - the Russians
went on alert - wondering if it was an attack from us.  They have a ten
minute limit on launching a counter-attack.  They were trying to get
in touch with the US to verify what was happening but time was
  ticking away and they were getting ready to respond in kind.
With only a few minutes to spare, the Norwegian missile turned
as it went into its orbit and the Russian radar showed the rocket
   wasn't headed toward them.  Response was called off.
       We came that close.
While we're on the subject - you know that sub that sank?  They
were testing a secret weapon so secret a picture of it does not exist.
It's a type of rocket in three stages to go after our submarines.  This
sub - they have like nine of them around the globe.  While the Gulf
war was "popular" - there was one of those subs off the West Coast
ready to nuke any number of our cities should the communists have
deemed it necessary.
Sleep tight.
 
 

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Subject:  [sharpen] Digest Number 484
Date:  19 Nov 2000 19:11:42 -0000
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Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:38:32 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: humor
 

From:  Owen
        Dear

   Great Predictions by Experts I

  "Computers in the  future may weigh no more than 15 tons."
   --Popular Mechanics,  forecasting the relentless march of
     science,  1949
 

  "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
   --Thomas Watson,  chairman of IBM,  1943
 

  "I  have traveled the length and breadth of this country
   and talked with the best people, and I can assure you
   that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year."
   --The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall,  1957
 

  "But  what ... is it good for?"
   --Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems  Division of
     IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.

  "There  is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
   --Ken Olson,  president, chairman and founder of Digital
     Equipment Corp.,  1977
 

  "This  'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously
   considered as a means  of communication. The device is
   inherently of no value to us,"
   --Western Union internal memo,  1876.
 

  "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who
   would pay for a  message sent to nobody in particular?"
   --David Sarnoff's associates in  response to his urgings
     for investment in the radio in the 1920s.
 

  "The  concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to
   earn better than a 'C,' the idea must be feasible,"
   --A Yale University management professor in response to Fred
     Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service.
     (Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.)
 

  "Who the heck wants to hear actors talk?"
   --Harry M. Warner, Warner  Brothers,  1927.

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:03:02 -0000
   From: "Owen D Camp" <dococ@surferz.net>
Subject: To Be A Liberal
 

From:  Owen
        Dear All

To Be A Liberal
>
>As near as I can tell, to be a Liberal:
>
>You have to believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of funding.
>
>You have to believe that trial lawyers are selfless heroes and  doctors
>are overpaid.
>
>You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans
>are more of a threat than nuclear weapons in the hands of the Red
>Chinese.
>
>You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by
>cyclical, documented changes in the brilliance of the Sun, and more
>affected by yuppies driving SUVs.
>
>You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being gay is
>natural.
>
>You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments
>create prosperity.
>
>You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually
>doing something to earn it.
>
>You have to believe there was no art before federal funding.
>
>You have to believe the free market that gives us 500+ channels, can't
>deliver the quality that PBS does.
>
>You have to believe the NRA is bad, because they stand up for certain
>parts of the Constitution.
>
>You have to believe that taxes are too low but ATM fees are too high.
>
>You have to believe that Harriet Tubman, Cesar Chavez and Gloria
>Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson,
>General Robert E. Lee or Thomas Edison.
>
>You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial
>quotas and set-asides aren't.
>
>You have to believe second-hand smoke is more dangerous than HIV.
>
>You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked
>anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in
>charge.

You have to believe that trees can feel pain, dogs can think, dolphins are
smarter than humans, BUT a fetus is merely a blob of tissue

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
       Owen Camp   Cairo  NY    dococ@surferz.net
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Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 04:01:06 -0500
   From: "Raynard Merritt" <n8vzl@qsl.net>
Subject: Re: hokey.html
 

I liked the cow family best hehehe.
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Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 03:53:01 -0500
   From: "Raynard Merritt" <n8vzl@qsl.net>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Helps to slow down and listen to the sistern :) now and then. I was raggin a bit
too much myself on the hierarchy, but that's me born to disagree. I could rag on
the local body I attend even. I choose to explain to my children...how I
feel/believe. Some would have them feel guilty for missing church, I tell them
if someone gets on their case for missing church to take it up with their daddy.
I work real hard at spoiling my kids and ain't no one gonna mess with their
heads without dad getting his two cents in.

My membership ain't in no building and it ain't of this would. Have ya noticed I
like using ain't in text haha, I rarely use it audibly.

Amen

brother ray
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Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:52:26 EST
   From: Gjude20@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

 Hi Tom, seems you gave up wanting correct teaching not only for lent, but
for every day of the year. Unfortunately you associate any attempt to defend
 correct teaching with ST teaching, which we defended as true bible
 interpretation. Now any attempt by anyone to promote sound teaching is met
 with scorn & they are painted as having ST's spirit. if someone you knew was
 drinking from a water supply that had crap in it would you warn them about
 it? You called it crap & said RC members know it's crap. So why then are
they staying in a crappy place???  Moreover why are you defending the stance to
 remain in a place full of crappy teaching as OK? according to you it's just
 another place of worship, & God doesn't mind how you worship as long as
 you're sincere,(1st JOHN CLEESE 3:16)??? Our Father doesn't want his
children to eat crap, does He? That's one reason why He rescued us from Cobu. Does it
 sink in yet?

                                                                 Herm

                                                                  >>
Dear Brethren,  Jesus is the word of God.  I have been thinking about this RC
attachment so defended by some.  It may have to do with the first visages of
consciousness as youth are introduced to God and ideas about Him.  They
trustingly adopt this input as good because they love their parents and other
kind adults so much.  This is how the devil passes on intergenerational
crapola.  The earlier this process takes place, the more it overules logic
and proved-truth.  I began to think about this when the one sister online
began to describe how she revels in the security she finds in RC worship and
ritual.  She was definitely into sentimentality above the bible, and was
willing to risk that God would toss His word as the key judgment item and
respect her good feelings toward the doctrines of men.  How could she say
such a thing?:  She has been imprinted mentally to do so.  Beloved, I urge
you all to turn from the doctrines of men, from dumb idols, from fleshly
sentimentality which attaches you to these things, hating even the garment
spotted by the flesh.  The many places where the RC doctrine contradicts the
word of God have been rehearsed on this list over and over:  1 Tim. 4, call no
man father, Vicar means vicarious and the Pope claims to be the vicar of God,
putting himself in the place of God, prayer to Mary and other non-members of
the Trinity is not biblical, etc ., etc.  Flee from fornication!  Come out
from among them; For what shall it profit a person if he/she gains the
respect of RC family, priests, monsignors, and archbishops, and loses his/her
own soul for living in contradiction to the word of God?  Love, Ed
 

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Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:12:42 -0500
   From: "Steve Saxton" <sksaxton@sg23.com>
Subject: Re: Re: becoming Catholic, Roman, whatever

Brother Ed and Herm,
Hard sayings but well said.

Yours in Christ,
Sola Scriptura,
Steve Saxton
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