Patterns:
Stewart Traill,
Why I think he was never a Christian
Why I think he is not a Christian now.

In this piece I will explore what I consider patterns in Stewart Traill's behavior. I will address the wickedness he performed June 1989 on our brothers and sisters. And I will try to demonstrate the importance of understanding such an individual.

Where to begin. As may know , I am the guy who runs the XCOBU web site. Running the page has made me the go between for alot of brethren. In the process I am developing an overview of what we went through as Christians in COBU. I was third or fourth generation from Allentown , receiving Jesus on June 30, 1975. My 4 brothers and Mom were led to Jesus by Doug Mosemann on Nov. 30 1974. I moved in in 1980 at age 17. I lived in , primarily as a Young Sheep from 1980-84. As a Young sheep I was what the first and second generation would call a perfect candidate for "the Trip Box" or the Trip apartment. I was a"Wayward young Sheep" or a black sheep. you get the picture. When I was a Lamb and before i moved in Stewart likened me to Glen of Montreal. I showed promise. I was fine until Stew's discipline came into the picture.

Any day now I will receive about 5 lbs. of material from Herman Weiss and over 100 tapes 1973-75 from Paul Galante. Both Brothers were there. They were THERE! We can all agree on that. I intend to write a book. I think God wants me to do it. I told these brothers that Steve Saxton and I will "compile" a book. I cannot write your story. You have to. Once you do , please send it to me. I want your story to be told. I can tell the Young Sheep House part of COBU history but you can tell of the beginning. And those still in will hopefully write it's final chapter.

I know that some of you have theories about Stewart. Who is he? What is he? You have written me extensively after I have openly begged to be enlightened. I have listened to an Allentown tape of 1972-73. I have listened to 18 hours of the July 1980 Big Meeting. I have listened to the Grace Meeting March 1989. I am presently struggling through what must be the worst Tapes I have ever heard. The tapes are of the 1 John Meeting 1989, 3 months after the Grace Meeting. Brother , Sister....you who are reading this piece....I am so utterly grieved at the things I heard on this tape. there are 4 cassettes. i have made my way through 1 1/2 of the tapes. Beth Davies sent them to me. She has keen observations which helped me work through this process. I am seeing Patterns of behavior. I am seeing what I can only call wickedness. I am hearing the truth coming out of the mouths of our brothers and sisters , at this meeting , only to be silenced or manipulated by Stewart to insignificance. Stewart is the same old Stew. Mean, sarcastic, condescending(Remember , at this meeting he proclaims that he only became a Christian in January of that same year). And WOW brothers and sisters what a difference God pouring His Holy Spirit into Stewart made. Why, you can hear it from start to finish. His kindness , love, humility, peace, patience , joy ....just so evident in every harsh syllable he uttered. In every belittling remark, in every sales tactic and maneuver you could really see Jesus!

I will now come to specifics. It is imperative that I transcribe that meeting very soon. 1) it appears to be the basis for what current members believe now. 2) It finally, in my mind explains What Stewart is, which by understanding him we can only get further healing.

Pattern 1: I think you all know alot of this already but please let me continue and then , by all means write your responses. Some do not want to look at Stew. They are hurt and damaged and do not want to even think about him. Does a rape victim want to dwell on her attacker? I understand. I know God wants me to do all I can to bring everything I can find to light. Stewart's pattern of mystery is known by you all. We don't know much about his family. We don't know the truth about his various court cases We don't know what laws he has broken. We don't even really know his testimony. Tell me if that isn't the weirdest thing. A pastor and teacher of a church who will not really talk about the Day he came to Jesus. I have 3 separate tapes and time periods where he talks about 'being saved" or when he did as such a nothing thing. He loudly proclaims July1980 that it was nothing . Jesus did everything. Big Deal. Then he goes on to his Fall into the earth and die bashing of the older brothers and sisters. We used to listen to other christians testify of God's Salvation and the day Jesus came into their hearts. Stew just takes another bite of a ham sandwich and says through a full mouth.."Yeah..I did that." There is a reason he looks at Salvation like this, which I will address later. So we don't know Stewart and he likes it that way. What kind of a Christian lives in the shadows?

Pattern 2: His Bible Studies. So far with 1973 1980, and 1989 he shows the same pattern. your pastor or teacher in your church, what does he do on Sundays? After singing and praying he opens the Bible and directs you to certain scripture and says either God showed me this or I saw this and then ties other scripture to support his message. Something like that. The only criticism i have about this structure is that there should be a question and answer time too. But You certainly can talk to your pastor after the service. What about Stewart's Pattern. The long drum roll. He throws some teaser out there and then starts walking. He throws out more crumbs and walks some more. He beats you if you don't pick up the crumbs. so you go along. And the rest of the sheep go to. He then heads into a tunnel. He walks far enough into the tunnel that the only familiar image we have in this dark place is Beard Boy. Then in the middle of the tunnel when we are too far from either the entrance or the exit He tells us he knows the way out. No one dares stand up and lead the brothers and sisters away from Stew. He will bash them. No one questions whether he really knows the way out. We are dependent on him and his beatings. He does it every meeting , every week , every year. And when we finally crawl out of the tunnel either going his way or finding another path, we are alone and scared.  By God's grace Jesus comes and takes us to the King's Highway. Okay sorry about the imagery. My point is Stewart sells and teases for about an hour making us lean forward and practically beg him for the answer. He puts the crumbs down and he sets the direction. God does not lead him. You listen to these 1989 tapes and you hear brothers and sisters bring up examples that flatly disrupt what Stewart wants to teach and they get squashed for it. Why didn't Stewart kindly and peacefully show from the Bible what he was trying to say. Because Stewart needed force to get a room full of Christians to listen to him. But by the open statement of the Truth we would commend to conscience. "We did not follow cleverly devised myths." Stewart sells and sucks in for an hour and then tells you some thing that sounds weird but don't you dare undo over an hour of build up for this great moment.

Pattern 3: Stewart is a Religious Scientist. or a Headtripper. 1973...supposedly the good years before the failed marriage( before the marriage Stewart helped destroy) before things changed...right? Listen to the 1973 tape. What do you hear? A scientist approaching the Bible with his scientific method. And a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds are impressed. You have a 35 year old man dazzling 16 year olds with his "making things fit" figuring things out. The Church of Bible Understanding   not the Church of devoted loving Christians who do love. Stew  wouldn't join. No he is happy to be the Leader, happy to be the one speaking. Still condescending. Still making the "kiddies" feel like idiots. What kind of spirit behaves this way? All our COBU life coming from Stewart was systems, methods. A new direction, a new teaching. They will know you are Christians by your love. Stewart's First Marriage, Stewart's treatment of his own children. Stewart's treatment of other brothers and sisters marriages and children(Shut that kid up)..And Throwing the sisters onto the street from 515 was Stew's idea. What spirit behaves like this?  the Grace Meeting and the 1 John meeting . what were they? "Gee I got the wrong answer, you are partly to blame for not stopping me, here's the right answer now don't screw up , you idiots." For a teacher to say that he was in error for 25 years and not be asked to immediately clear out his locker.....would I have opposed him to his face in 1989. Most likely no. I would have been as weak as our dear brothers and sisters were back then. Stewart has a real problem. What is it?

This is where I get to what appalls me. You read the Grace Meeting notes. Stew is error but he's still in charge. He made a big mess but "why didn't we tell him?" Somehow Stew goes wrong and repents over the weekend and by Monday, he's back at work, never skipping a beat. "You see brother , I figured it out, fixed it and now I'm okay, so back off and never mind that I helped destroy your life for 17 years, I repented and have the right answer now, so sit down,....brother! Okay ..that's the Grace Meeting. What does Stew have 3 months later? He does his 1 hour of "It will shock you..., boy ..you're not going to believe this....and down the tunnel they all went. And , in the dark he finally says "If you can stand up and say " I have sinned in my life" then you were never a Christian. Never seen Him or known Him. Are you getting the import of this? Then He says for the last 25 years he was not a Christian. Never was a Christian! Everyone is stunned and he says"well ...I tried to prepare you for "horrifying and worse" and well....." I'm in my car screaming at the cassette player. The Spirit of God inside me went to War. He gets Gayle to laughingly tell everyone all the things she has studied on the subject. Later in the tape he "testifies" that Gayle was and is a genuine Christian. She's in the clear. She then feels really comfortable helping out with the study half giggling. I don't think she really understands what she was sitting in front of. Stewart and the Christians in the room. I am sitting there reacting like the silent brothers and sisters at the meeting. Stewart is telling me that he was not a Christian for the last 25 years and is implying that neither are the Christians in that room. Implies first, later he just comes out and says it. You have to read the transcription on the Theology he was selling. Let me just cap the wickedness here.  Brother Paul Saustak stood up and said(i am outraged) Brother Paul stood up and said " I prayed to Jesus 10 years ago and asked Jesus to forgive my sins and i asked Him for The Holy Spirit to come inside of me and I felt a tremendous change inside and my life changed. I did rebel at times over the years"THEN STEWART INTERRUPTS AND SAYS "THEN YOU WERE NEVER A CHRISTIAN"  Brothers and sisters. Do you see the wickedness. I can hardly type. To tell a brother in Christ, for whom Christ died, whom God did fulfill His promise and put His Holy Spirit into that he is not a believer. Millstone MILLSTONE Stewart. Then a Sister stood up and said "What about the gift of tongues and prophecy that we have. Aren't they proof that the Holy Spirit is inside of us? Stewart says "No...the Spirit gives gifts...He does what he wants...that's not a proof." Then Stewart treats the sister the way he treated Diane Jaquay at the Grace Meeting. He shouts "Oh yeah , prove it." The sister says weakly " I can't " then Stewart shouts "Next" and you do not hear from the sister again. Try Mark the last chapter "And these are the signs what will accompany those who believe, they shall speak in tongues , they shall take poison and not die....."

Back to if you sin you are not a Christian. He used the term the "mind of the apostles "and the" spirit of the New Testament". Gayle chirped "I read about Paul opposing Peter to his face in Galatians. How "he stood condemned" Paul rebuked Peter for fear of man, insincerity, hypocrisy. Stewart dismissed it. He talked around it and dropped it. It was a clear example of a Christian, an Apostle no less, sinning. This blows Stewart's science lesson wide open. He insists that the Apostles did not sin and assumed that anyone else who truly was a Christian did not sin. By the crowd "Yes" and "No" I think that there were 300 or 400 there. When he asked "Who is not a Christian?"  Charles( might be Ramierez) and Yolanda(might be Carter) raised their hands. Then he says "You are still my brother and sister, but you are not a Christian." He went on to say that Paul and the other Apostles wrote to churches that had both Christians and Non-Christians in them. I stopped the tape there. Chuck Marburger voiced astonishment that Stew could be teaching and reading the Bible for 25 years and not be a Christian.

It comes to this. Stewart is not a Christian. He never was a Christian. We were Christians and we are Christians. Thats why You have the majority of us leaving COBU and still keeping our faith. What God did was real. We did pray. We did get born again. The reason Stewart talked  about the new birth in such a nothing way is that he did not get born again. And all the while we are having real fellowship in Jesus. Real Joy in the Holy Spirit, Stewart is getting off on controlling us. He bashed us and taught us all his mind could "figure out" but none of it was revealed by God. When he hit upon truths that anyone could recognize we accredited to God showing him profound teaching. What was profound about any of his teaching. Please note also that This man who was not a Christian for the last 25 years shows up at this meeting with the SAME SPIRIT HE ALWAYS SHOWS UP IN. It's Stew Stew Stew through and through. He got born again in Jan 1989 huh? Where is the fruit of the Spirit? in 1973 God was talking to him as a man talks to his Friend, like Moses. Remember? Well brothers and sisters Stewart must have been lying. He had the gift to discern Spirits..right? God gives Spiritual Gifts to the Unsaved huh? Right Stew? And Stewart Traill has the wickedness, the wickedness to tell a room full of Christians this heretical doctrine. I am outraged brethren. It brought me to my knees today. I cried out to God. I want to be on the front line when he sends the troops in on Stewart. I have submitted to the truth that I may never see Stewart's face again. I may never one of the instruments that God uses to either lead him to Salvation in Christ or throw him out of our brother and sisters lives for good. I am pleading to God to rescue those still inside. I am burning inside. To directly tell a Christian.....to deny or defy what God has directly done.  This is the basis of what they believe now. They are not sure of their salvation. Stewart the unsaved has robbed them. He has taken away , He has snatched and scattered. He has destroyed. Stewart does not know what it is like to be a Christian. And he was teaching our brethren all those years. Note that His spirit was the same same same as always. Was he a Christian in Allentown. No! By his own mouth God will condemn him if he does not repent. He was different then yes. He had a small following and a marriage and 5 children. Then the church grew and he changed. What's so hard to understand. Unsaved people change all the time when success or volume changes. You have heard the term "He can't handle success." Stewart was nice in Allentown because he was able to control a small number or 17 year olds. Then those genuine Christians went out and turned the world up-side down and Stewart could not control God's work so he used force. He had the answers, Be like him, do his direction. And then in 1989  "I was never a Christian".....In this year of 1989 or the next year he sinned against or with a sister in Princeton. So Stew....what about your sinless Christianity? Brothers and sisters I urge you to pray. Go to the "Hello From Here" part of the site and print out those names. These brethren are being lead by a wicked man. A man that will assault the very work of God in their Lives. To cause them to believe that they do not have a relationship with God. To make them unsure of His Love. Brethren, Think about this ...please. it is wickedness.

I will transcribe the whole 1 john 1989 meeting soon. I must. The 1973 tape can wait. It is an example of a young Religious Scientist in love with his mind and in love with the attention he never got but always wanted.

I say to you brothers and sisters who still think Stewart is a Christian gone wrong....do not think this anymore.

May the God who did Send His Son to die on the Cross for us, who accepted us and adopted us as His own so many years ago, who did pour His Holy Spirit into our hearts, be magnified and Blessed and Glorified and Praised with all our being.

your Brother
Mke Montoya
====================================================
From: Chris Hirtler <chirtler@snet.net>

Dear Mike,
Chris Hirtler here. ST has fallen into apostasy. He knows Jesus and the
Holy Spirit. ST had the gift of discernment then. Now he doesn't. And he
is more than backslidden, he is leading others away from the gospel. No,
he did not start and end as a worldly man, he began in the Spirit and
has ended in rebellion and he hopes to take a few with him. Just as with
Satan, one asks oneself why he continues on a path that is doomed.
I think what many of us, including yourself, are attempting to do is
disavow anything that ST has said as being not of the Holy Spirit. This
is not in your own or anyone's best interest. To do so will deny one of
some of the things that God wants us to know about Himself. I was there
and I saw what I saw. My spirit agreed with much of what was
taught,(back then, not now for certain!), although I could not bring
myself to believe that Jesus would have us treat each other as ST and
his lackeys did. (Remember, I left in Feb 79, and it got more insane and
obviously a worldly work after I left.)
I submit that we in the early days learned about God and His nature,
despite ST and his excesses even back then, and we should not throw what
we learned back then away. And I may add that this is hard for some to
hear because of their own revulsion toward the truth, that is, their own
disobedience inherent in their hearts towards the real Jesus. - How
convenient for the flesh to find opportunity to cast away all restraint!
That leaves a huge responsibility upon those who are left to discern
what to keep and what to throw away. And this will not be proven through
scriptural debate. Since it is the scripture that bears witness to the
Spirit and not the other way around, it will be up to us to have to
judge according to the Spirit that God put in us because that is what
God gave us to be our Guide. And it is He who will be able to transform
us into the likeness of Jesus.
It is also important in our dealing with the issue of what to discard
is to not resort to worldly techniques or psychology or personal agendas
whose ends are no less opposed to God's as ST's is in their final
outcome.  Chris

=========================================================
From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>

And stop giving credit to Stewart for what God in the Holy Spirit had done
==========================================================
From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>

From: Chris Hirtler <chirtler@snet.net>
>
>Dear Mike,
> Chris Hirtler here. ST has fallen into apostasy. He knows Jesus and the
>Holy Spirit. ST had the gift of discernment then. Now he doesn't. And he
>is more than backslidden, he is leading others away from the gospel.

First of all Chris, the gifts of God are irrevocable. Solomon kept his
wisdom.  Stew either had it or he didn't. funny how on the 1973 tape (the
good years) He says he has that gift and then he asks visitors who come in
on the meeting if they are born again. Gosh ..don't you think XRAY man could
have picked that little point up of whether or not a person has the Spirit
of God?
 

No,
>he did not start and end as a worldly man, he began in the Spirit and
>has ended in rebellion and he hopes to take a few with him. Just as with
>Satan, one asks oneself why he continues on a path that is doomed.
> I think what many of us, including yourself, are attempting to do is
>disavow anything that ST has said as being not of the Holy Spirit. This
>is not in your own or anyone's best interest. To do so will deny one of
>some of the things that God wants us to know about Himself.

Baloney....Do you hear yourself?  Stew was and is a scientist. He pointed
out truths anyone of us could have found in any healthy church. He lacked
Revelation. Supposedly God talked to him all those years. Listen to the
tapes. And His attitude and his spirit. Its Stew without the Holy Spirit
getting off on leading 17 year olds. I think what I lack , and I am glad I
do  is the many years of spellbinding he did on brothers and sisters.  I am
not saying all older brothers and sisters are duped and are staying duped
and are still afraid of talking against Stew. But I am saying is some of my
brothers in Christ , and I respect you, still have this defense of Stew. The
mask is off. HE IS A CULT LEADER. SHOW ME THE TAPE WHERE HE shows any fruits
of the Spirit.  He shows Fruits of the STEWART and still does. I question
your memory.  You want to say it was God ordained that we come to know him
through Stew.  Baloney. It is God's Will that we come to know HIM and not get
led astray.

I was there
>and I saw what I saw. My spirit agreed with much of what was
>taught,(back then, not now for certain!), although I could not bring
>myself to believe that Jesus would have us treat each other as ST and
>his lackeys did. (Remember, I left in Feb 79, and it got more insane and
>obviously a worldly work after I left.)
 

Dear Brother ...do you wish for the rest of the brothers and sisters WHO
WERE THERE to write you and tell you their horror stories? You pick the time
frame. You pick.  Jim Jones may have preached some truths before going to
Guyana.

> I submit that we in the early days learned about God and His nature,
>despite ST and his excesses even back then, and we should not throw what
>we learned back then away. And I may add that this is hard for some to
>hear because of their own revulsion toward the truth, that is, their own
>disobedience inherent in their hearts towards the real Jesus. - How
>convenient for the flesh to find opportunity to cast away all restraint!
 

I take issue. I take issue. That you could ...not even openly charge these
brothers and sisters and myself with wanting to throw off restraint. Brother
...do you hear yourself? You learned about God and His Nature from a
scientist and a twisted one at that. How he treated his first wife is also
telling. then he marries a 19 year old 6 weeks later.  Those were the good
years Chris, those were the less insane years. He bore fruit back then.
Check his fruit

> That leaves a huge responsibility upon those who are left to discern
>what to keep and what to throw away. And this will not be proven through
>scriptural debate. Since it is the scripture that bears witness to the
>Spirit and not the other way around, it will be up to us to have to
>judge according to the Spirit that God put in us because that is what
>God gave us to be our Guide. And it is He who will be able to transform
>us into the likeness of Jesus.

I kinda agree here but in another way. Its not sorting the good and bad of
Stewart's teaching. Its sorting out the The Holy Spirit's teaching and
guiding us from Stewart Traill.   In the 1 John 1989 tape Stew gives a false
choice in the beginning. He says "I guess God gave you a choice between
grievous wolves and Stewart, of which I am not, so its grievous wolves or
Stewart. Thats the choice."  WRONG STEW and Wrong Chris. Its not the choice.

> It is also important in our dealing with the issue of what to discard
>is to not resort to worldly techniques or psychology or personal agendas
>whose ends are no less opposed to God's as ST's is in their final
>outcome.  Chris

come out and say it Chris...you think I am into my head on all
this.....Listen , Stewart is wrong on the Bible. Try to tell him that.
Stewart is wrong on his treatment of others. Try to tell him that and try to
understand his destruction. It is spelled out in the Bible and can be
studied psychologically. Sociologically. You name it. Test the spirits to
see whether they are of God. How do you do that Chris? What do you look at.
Psychology belongs to God too.

I am sickened. Not by your note but by Stewart's destruction and damage on
us all.  And it continues. God , please end this destruction either by life
or by death.

MikeMontoya
========================================================
From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>

Tom here:
I beg, no plead to differ.
Scriptural debate rarely changes minds and
probably NEVER changes hearts.
I know there are brethren out there who have
read Anthony DeMello, and Henri Nouwen, among many others.
You can prove any point  with the Bible. ST proved that.
As for the former days being so great; remember the words:
"The nature of a thing has to do with it's conception"
Mike M hears the same old harsh ST from the beginning.
We were conned.  Own up to it.
But in the meantime, we gained a relationship with Jesus
and valuable friendships with brothers and sisters
that we will never forget.
(Although, it seems there are many I don't remember myself)
In COBU, I learned how to win any debate.  And ST said
one time "You don't even have to win; you just have to LOOK
like you've won, and you've won"
Once again: if you would read:
Influence by Robert Cialdini
The Art of Deception by Nicholas Capaldi
ST used just about every trick in these books.
As for "proving" things "doctrinally" by "the weight of scripture"
tell me,
Is it necessary for one to be baptized to be saved?
Is the rapture before, in the middle or at the end
of the tribulation?
Is there a rapture?
You can see the obvious problems.
People believe, sometimes, opposite things
and use the very same scriptures to "prove"
their point.
Is this an exercise in futility?  A resounding NO!
There was a "great" Christian writer named Carl Barth.
Days before his death (before he went to be with Jesus)
he was asked, after all his great writing and all, what had
he learned.
And he started to sing:
Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so.
Yes, it's the scriptures he's referring to,
but it's the heart I'm referring to.
And I would like to be where his was.
Oy - I don't know what I'm asking!
Is there suffering involved?  I take it back....
No one has read Edward's book
"RETHINKING ELDERS"
It has great insights into the STORY
of the gospel, and how that leads to right "interpretation".
If you only read one book
read this. It isn't long.
There is also the pamphlets:
When the Church was Led by Laymen Only
and Beyond Radical.
These are available from The SeedSowers.
Edward's is also published by Tyndale.
Oy
Tom
======================================================
From: Herman M Weiss <hmweiss@juno.com>

From: Herman Weiss
                              I just have few comments; Stewart mentioned
at grace meeting that Gayle was almost perfect. Stewart's next logical
step would be to declare that Gayle had an immaculate conception & should
be venerated as the Queen of COBU & their marriage is a divine one. SOUND
FAMILIAR?
                              As to Stewart's claim of discernment of
spirits: Who remembers Michael Marsh? He claimed he
was healed by Jesus miraculously & was wined & dined by Stewart & other
leaders & was given the right hand of
fellowship. He was allowed give his testimony at the big meeting. Later
we found out that he had mental problems
& made the story up. He had done this act at other churches as well.
Perhaps Stewart's discernment of spirits was
on the fritz.
=============================================================
 

>
MIKE, I'M GOING TO TYPE IN CAPITALS ONLY SO THAT YOU CAN EASILY
DISTINGUISH MY "REPLY TO YOUR REPLY". I AM NOT SHOUTING.

> From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>
>
> >From: Chris Hirtler <chirtler@snet.net>
> >
> >Dear Mike,
> > Chris Hirtler here. ST has fallen into apostasy. He knows Jesus and the
> >Holy Spirit. ST had the gift of discernment then. Now he doesn't. And he
> >is more than backslidden, he is leading others away from the gospel.
>
> First of all Chris, the gifts of God are irrevocable. Solomon kept his
> wisdom.  Stew either had it or he didn't. funny how on the 1973 tape (the
> good years) He says he has that gift and then he asks visitors who come in
> on the meeting if they are born again. Gosh ..don't you think XRAY man could
> have picked that little point up of whether or not a person has the Spirit
> of God?

NOT TRUE, AND I CAN SAY THAT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. THE GIFTS ARE
MOST CERTAINLY NOT IRREVOCABLE. ASK MIKE PAPPIE ABOUT THIS OR ANY OF THE
REALLY OLDER BROTHERS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU BACKSLIDE, (NOT
EQUAL TO LEAVING COBU).
>
> No,
> >he did not start and end as a worldly man, he began in the Spirit and
> >has ended in rebellion and he hopes to take a few with him. Just as with
> >Satan, one asks oneself why he continues on a path that is doomed.
> > I think what many of us, including yourself, are attempting to do is
> >disavow anything that ST has said as being not of the Holy Spirit. This
> >is not in your own or anyone's best interest. To do so will deny one of
> >some of the things that God wants us to know about Himself.

CONSIDER THIS PARAGRAPH REITERATED.
>
> Baloney....Do you hear yourself?  Stew was and is a scientist. He pointed
> out truths anyone of us could have found in any healthy church.

THE ONLY HEALTHY ONES ARE THE ONES WHO DON'T SEE THAT MUCH AND LIFE IS
RELATIVELY SIMPLE FOR THEM. THE ONES I HAVE VISITED CONVENIENTLY IGNORE
(KEY WORD) MANY DEEP ISSUES AND CAN'T HANDLE THE HARD QUESTIONS; EG. WHY
IS THE WORLD CHURCH SO WEAK AND WITHOUT AUTHORITY? WHY DO CHRISTIANS GET
INVOLVED IN POLITICS WHEN THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING SO? IS IT RIGHT OR
WRONG TO BOMB ABORTION CLINICS?  WILL GOD ACCEPT A PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL
INTO HEAVEN? WHY DON'T MIRACLES OCCUR MORE FREQUENTLY AMONG US? WOULD WE
RECOGNIZE JESUS IF HE WERE TO STAND AMONG US? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY
CHURCHES INTERPRET THE BIBLE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND THEY ALL SEEM TO
HAVE PLAUSIBLE ARGUMENTS AND WHY AM I NEVER SURE WHO IS RIGHT? IS IT
WRONG TO CALL GOD A "HE"? AREN'T THERE GONG TO BE MOSLEMS ACCEPTED INTO
HEAVEN?

He lacked
> Revelation. Supposedly God talked to him all those years. Listen to the
> tapes. And His attitude and his spirit. Its Stew without the Holy Spirit
> getting off on leading 17 year olds. I think what I lack , and I am glad I
> do  is the many years of spellbinding he did on brothers and sisters.  I am
> not saying all older brothers and sisters are duped and are staying duped
> and are still afraid of talking against Stew. But I am saying is some of my
> brothers in Christ , and I respect you, still have this defense of Stew. The
> mask is off. HE IS A CULT LEADER. SHOW ME THE TAPE WHERE HE shows any fruits
> of the Spirit.  He shows Fruits of the STEWART and still does. I question
> your memory.  You want to say it was God ordained that we come to know him
> through Stew.  Baloney. It is God's Will that we come to know HIM and not get
> led astray.

I WILL NOT BE LED INTO DEFENDING ST. I AM SAYING THAT GOD USED HIM
DESPITE HIMSELF. IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT GUIDED ME THROUGH SOME OF
MY DARKEST HOURS (MANY) WHILE IN COBU AND SOME OF IT WAS ALMOST AUDIBLE.
(IF YOU NEED CLARIFICATION OF THIS I WILL BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN IN A
FUTURE LETTER.) YOUR VERY UNDERSTANDABLE OUTRAGE, WHICH I SHARE, AT ST'S
SINS IS BLINDING YOU TO ANYTHING HE SAID. NOT EVERYTHING WAS NOT OF GOD.
I AM A FRUIT OF THAT WORK, AND SO ARE ALL THE BRETHREN THAT STILL
CONFESS JESUS IF YOU WANT FRUIT. NOT EVERYTHING WE LEARNED WAS FALSE.
JUST AS GOD CAN USE INSIGHT FOR HIS GOOD PURPOSES, SO ALSO CAN SATAN USE
IT FOR HIS. ST EVEN SAID AT A MEETING AT SPRING ST LOFT THAT HE WAS
AFRAID THAT HE MIGHT BE THE ANTICHRIST! (OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE
HEART THE MOUTH SPEAKS, THAT EVEN APPLIES TO ST). I DON'T HAVE TAPES, I
HAVE MY MEMORY OF WHAT AND HOW THINGS WERE SAID AT MEETINGS, QUITE A FEW
OF THEM. I ALSO HAVE A MEMORY OF THE 1984 JULY 4 BIG MEETING WHERE ALL I
SAW WAS A STRUTTING POMPOUS BOSSY WINDBAG WHERE AT ONE TIME I SAW,
(YEARS BEFORE) GOD TEACHING US THROUGH ST. REMEMBER, I HAVE CALLED ST
APOSTATE! AND I SAY IT AGAIN!
>
> I was there
> >and I saw what I saw. My spirit agreed with much of what was
> >taught,(back then, not now for certain!), although I could not bring
> >myself to believe that Jesus would have us treat each other as ST and
> >his lackeys did. (Remember, I left in Feb 79, and it got more insane and
> >obviously a worldly work after I left.)
>
> Dear Brother ...do you wish for the rest of the brothers and sisters WHO
> WERE THERE to write you and tell you their horror stories? You pick the time
> frame. You pick.  Jim Jones may have preached some truths before going to
> Guyana.

I WAS THERE FROM MAY 75 TO FEB 79. I SAY AGAIN THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT USED
ST DURING THOSE TIMES, AND THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT HE WAS NOT ABOVE
REPROACH AT ANY TIME, EVEN THE EARLY DAYS EITHER. THERE WERE OLDER
BROTHERS WHO WERE CLOSE ENOUGH AND KNEW ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THEY SAW ST
"DUMMING DOWN" THE BIBLE STUDIES. THIS WAS AROUND 76-77 AND IT WAS A
GRADUAL AND DELIBERATE DECLINE. THE BIBLE STUDIES FROM THE EARLY YEARS
WERE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE THAT CAME AFTER. I CAME IN AND WAS
COGNIZANT JUST ABOUT WHEN THIS WAS TAKING PLACE. BUT I SAW ENOUGH THAT I
NOTICED IT, BUT NOT AS CLEARLY.
>
> > I submit that we in the early days learned about God and His nature,
> >despite ST and his excesses even back then, and we should not throw what
> >we learned back then away. And I may add that this is hard for some to
> >hear because of their own revulsion toward the truth, that is, their own
> >disobedience inherent in their hearts towards the real Jesus. - How br>> >convenient for the flesh to find opportunity to cast away all restraint!

I DON'T MEAN HEDONISM. I MEAN LOSING SIGHT OF THE REAL JESUS FOR A
COMFORTABLE AND PALATABLE VIEW. FALSE RELIGION. COMPROMISE.
"CHURCHIANITY" - LIVING AS A CHRISTIAN RATHER THAN YEARNING TO BE LIKE
HIM.
>
> I take issue. I take issue. That you could ...not even openly charge these
> brothers and sisters and myself with wanting to throw off restraint. Brother
> ...do you hear yourself? You learned about God and His Nature from a
> scientist and a twisted one at that.

WRONG. THE HOLY SPIRIT DEALT WITH ME DIRECTLY FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT A
YEAR, MID 77-78, ROUGHLY. I WAS ALONE ALOT AT WORK AND I SPENT ALL MY
TIME PRAYING AND READING THE BIBLE AS I MADE HAND TRUCK DELIVERIES IN
THE GARMENT DISTRICT.

How he treated his first wife is also
> telling. then he marries a 19 year old 6 weeks later.  Those were the good
> years Chris, those were the less insane years. He bore fruit back then.
> Check his fruit

I THINK ST HAD A LOT TO DO WITH HIS FIRST MARRIAGE FAILING. PERIOD.
ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THESE NEWEST REVELATIONS FROM CHRIS BLAISE. BUT I
SEE A LOT OF COMPROMISE. AND I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE PERFECTED EITHER. BUT
I STILL SEE COMPROMISE. GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN OUR OPINIONS ABOUT HIM.
HE IS WHO HE IS AND WILL NOT BE ANY DIFFERENT WHEN WE SEE HIM, DESPITE
OUR GOOD INTENTIONS. MANY OF US HAVE THROWN AWAY WHAT WE KNOW TO BE TRUE
ABOUT GOD'S NATURE BECAUSE IT IS THE EASIER WAY, AND ST'S UNFAITHFULNESS
IS GIVING US A PRETEXT, A BIG ONE, TO DO SO. I SUBMIT THAT THIS IS A
TRIAL FOR US, TO SEE WHO WANTS TO KNOW HIM AS HE IS AND WHO WANTS TO
MAKE UP THEIR OWN JESUS. NOW THAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN SCATTERED FOR SOME
YEARS, IT NOW REMAINS WHO STILL CAN RECOGNIZE HIM AND WHO HAS INVENTED A
NEW "JESUS". HUMAN NATURE DOES NOT CHANGE PARTICULARLY WITH ITS
WELL-KNOWN PROPENSITY FOR INVENTING WAYS TO GET AROUND THE CROSS. I SEE
VERY LITTLE DISCUSSION OF THE FLESH'S DESIGNS IN OUR CORRESPONDENCES,
YET IT IS ESPECIALLY NOW, NOW THAT WE'RE OLDER, THAT WE SHOULD BE EVEN
MORE VIGILANT. UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT CONDEMNING, I AM SIMPLY WARNING.
THE ENEMY IS NO MORE BENIGN AND LESS CLEVER THAN WE HAD LEARNED ABOUT.
OUR WALK SHOULD NOT BE A SIMPLE ONE, IF IT IS. AND IF WE ARE BLISSFUL
ABOUT IT, I SAY THAT WE ARE IN DANGER.
>
> > That leaves a huge responsibility upon those who are left to discern
> >what to keep and what to throw away. And this will not be proven through
> >scriptural debate. Since it is the scripture that bears witness to the
> >Spirit and not the other way around, it will be up to us to have to
> >judge according to the Spirit that God put in us because that is what
> >God gave us to be our Guide. And it is He who will be able to transform
> >us into the likeness of Jesus.

WHEN I FIRST FOUND THIS WEBSITE, I WANTED TO KNOW MANY MANY THINGS ABOUT
ST AND WHAT REALLY WENT ON. AND I AM SAD TO SAY THAT MOST OF MY
SUSPICIONS WERE PROVEN CORRECT, BUT I AM HUGELY RELIEVED THAT I CAN SEE
MORE CLEARLY WHO GOD IS NOW AND WHO ST REALLY WAS BEHIND THE SCENES.
THIS HAS NOT BEEN AN ALL AT ONCE OCCURRENCE. THE THINGS THAT I KNEW ABOUT
HIM (GOD) HAVE BEEN PROVEN OVER THESE LAST 20 SOME ODD YEARS, WITHOUT
ST'S INPUT. AND MY EYES HAVE BEEN OPENED (RECENTLY) AND BECOME SHARPER
AS I HAVE PRAYED AND ASKED FOR HIS HELP, (WHICH HE HAS GIVEN IN THE
OBVIOUS MANIFESTATIONS THAT I KNEW HIM TO GIVE TO ME DURING THE "REIGN
OF TERROR" AT THE MTC.)
>
> I kinda agree here but in another way. Its not sorting the good and bad of
> Stewart's teaching. Its sorting out the The Holy Spirit's teaching and
> guiding us from Stewart Traill.

THIS IS A VERY TRUE STATEMENT. IT IS NOT "IN A DIFFERENT WAY". I AGREE
100% WITH YOU HERE AND VICE-VERSA, BECAUSE IT IS THE VERY POINT I AM
MAKING. AND I ADD THAT MANY ARE AFRAID OF THE REAL JESUS. IT GIVES ME NO
PLEASURE TO SAY THIS, BUT IT IS WHAT I SEE. I HEAR, "SPEAK TO US SMOOTH
THINGS!"

   In the 1 John 1989 tape Stew gives a false
> choice in the beginning. He says "I guess God gave you a choice between
> grievous wolves and Stewart, of which I am not, so its grievous wolves or
> Stewart. Thats the choice."  WRONG STEW and Wrong Chris. Its not the choice.

DO YOU REALLY THINK I AGREE WITH THIS? ST IS A WOLF. THIS WAS SAID WAY
AFTER MY TIME, WHEN I HAVE SAID THAT HE WENT AROUND THE BEND.

> > It is also important in our dealing with the issue of what to discard
> >is to not resort to worldly techniques or psychology or personal agendas
> >whose ends are no less opposed to God's as ST's is in their final
> >outcome.  Chris
>
> come out and say it Chris...you think I am into my head on all
> this.....Listen , Stewart is wrong on the Bible. Try to tell him that.
> Stewart is wrong on his treatment of others. Try to tell him that and try to
> understand his destruction. It is spelled out in the Bible and can be
> studied psychologically. Sociologically. You name it. Test the spirits to
> see whether they are of God. How do you do that Chris? What do you look at.
> Psychology belongs to God too.

YES, HE IS WRONG NOW. THERE IS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND ABOUT THAT
STATEMENT. AND EVEN IN THE EARLY 80'S HE WAS WAY OFF. AND I'M NOT EVEN
SAYING HE TREATED US RIGHT, EVER. MAYBE THIS IS THE HEART OF THE MATTER
WHERE YOU MISUNDERSTAND ME. I AM SAYING THAT GOD USED ST ...DESPITE
STEWART....DESPITE HIM....I AM NOT SAYING THAT ST WAS EVER COMPLETELY
RIGHT TOWARDS GOD AND US. BUT GOD SAW FIT TO USE HIM ANYWAY. WHO SAYS
THAT SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT WITH GOD FOR GOD TO USE HIM. DAVID SURE
WASN'T.
PSYCHOLOGY? NO IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT. PSYCHOLOGY IS ATTEMPTING TO
HEAL THE HUMAN SOUL WITHOUT GOD IN THE PICTURE. IT PROCEEDS FROM THE
FALSE PREMISE THAT ANY HEALING CAN BE DONE WITHOUT GOD, "CHRISTIAN"
PSYCHOLOGISTS INCLUDED. AND I AM TARGETING WORLDLY THEORIES THAT THESE
CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGISTS WOULD WEAVE INTO SOME PSEUDO-SPIRITUAL
HODGE-PODGE SPECIFICALLY. KNOWING THE TRUTH IS WHAT SETS US FREE, NOT
SOME PSYCHIC SLEIGHT IF HAND. I'VE SEEN THAT NONSENSE IN ACTION, WAY
BEFORE I GOT SAVED AND HEARD ABOUT COBU AND I SAW THROUGH IT EVEN THEN,
WHEN I WAS IN THE WORLD. THERE IS NO POWER IN IT. "TEST THE SPIRITS TO
SEE IF THEY ARE OF GOD" - THE ONLY WAY I CAN DESCRIBE IT IS TO SAY IT IS
"THE EAR TASTES WORDS AS THE PALATE TASTES FOOD" - BEST I CAN DO. THAT'S
WHAT I DO.
>
> I am sickened. Not by your note but by Stewart's destruction and damage on
> us all.  And it continues. God , please end this destruction either by life
> or by death.
>
> MikeMontoya

MIKE, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE? ST IS ONLY ACTIVELY HURTING THOSE STILL
IN. HE ISN'T HURTING US NOW. OR ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT I AM "DAMAGED"? IF
I AM DAMAGED, WHY IS HE HELPING ME IN DIRECT, OBVIOUS WAYS AND WHY IS HE
OPENING UP MY EYES? I AM NOT A HAUNTED MAN. I AM USUALLY HAPPY. I SEE
GOD BLESSING ME WITH HELP AND PEACE, ESPECIALLY IN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS.
MY KIDS SEE A DIFFERENCE IN ME; I'M NOT SO HIT BY "ROAD RAGE" AND I'VE
BEEN ABLE TO PUT OFF THE CONSTANT CONTEMPT WITH WHICH I VIEWED THE
UNSAVED. AND THERE IS MORE BUT I THINK I'VE DESCRIBED MYSELF ENOUGH.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS FOR WARNING, NOT FOR FIGHTING OR CONDEMNATION. I
JUST CAN'T LET SOME OF THE STUFF GO THAT I SEE. "ECUMENISM" IS
SYNONYMOUS WITH COMPROMISE AND I SEE IT HAPPENING. ARE WE PEOPLE WHO
WANT TO KNOW THE TRUE GOD OR DO WE WANT TO BE "BABES IN CHRIST" FOR
FIFTY YEARS?   CHRIS
================================================================
> From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>

Tom here:
In the first few pp of my "How Do I Help the King?"
I mention how ST was so aware of what the OB's were
doing because he was quite familiar with the skeletons
in his own closet.  And then I mention that for DECADES
their maidens have had no marriage song. (Psa 78 I think)
But in your dialog below, you sound
like a would-be assassin.
Hold the fort.
I remember when I was working with J
I said I would like to get ST in a head lock
and shave off his beard. (I was serious)
As angry as this brother was with ST, he said
no, don't do it.  I was surprised.  I don't remember
asking him why, but I was amazed.
And BTW, later in 1989 ST
was calling Mr Marburger
"Chuckie Muckie".
Is that Christian behavior?
I think he's breaking rule #38 from the MTC:
Do not mock or ghoul each other.............
=============================================================
Michael Montoya wrote:

> From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>
>
> Nancy the part you read was Chris Blaise on forgiveness.  and everyone here
> is my journal today. It will be on the site for the NON ONELISTERs but I
> wanted to put here to. I  will not calm down. If I forget Jerusalem, let my
> right hand wither.<P>February 27 1999:::. Greetings brethren and friends. I
> have had an exhausting week but a fulfilling one. If you look at the
> cyber-traffic alone you can see that many are joining and participating in
> finding the truth. That's what we are doing in every letter and every note.
> Both personal and public. Why do you care about the truth so much? Because
> the truth is Jesus and you have a relationship with Him. Praise God! When
> you see mistreatment or mis statements you react . you come to the fore and
> fight or encourage or exhort. Why do you do that? Why do you care? Because
> Jesus did save you and put His Spirit in you. Why do the Atheists fight and
> come on? Hmmmmm? Well....ahh? Fred? do you want to field that one? I played
> the second tape of the 1 John 1989 to my wife. I am glad she wasn't driving.
> All the way to the zoo she was "going to war against every wrong thing" in
> Stewart. One point we discussed had to do with an outsider is at this
> meeting and he stands up and blasts Stewart with Scripture which in my
> estimation really was a direct hit. But Stew gets out of it partly twisting
> scripture and partly relying on his foot soldiers to stand up with a weak
> "do not judge by appearances but Judge with right judgment." Stew takes the
> cue and gets the meeting back to his terrible teaching. The thing we talked
> about is the failure of outsiders or anyone to really sink Stew. How does
> one get on the horse and ride it into the ground and then led him in pray or
> throw him out, black button, khakis and all?My wife said first you have to
> realize and treat Stewart for what he is not. He IS NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!The
> standards of the Bible for a Christian do not apply to him. I see her point.
> And my point is whoever finally knocks on his door better be sent by God in
> the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't think it will be arguing scripture
> with Stew. I don't think it will be out smarting the fellow. It has to be
> God sending whomever , if that is even His will or plan. God may just say
> "Okay ..that's it and take Stewart's life.No surprise that as I was walking
> around in the zoo , I was thinking about all this. Kinda surreal. 1500 miles
> away in the zoo with my wife and two children ,looking at monkeys and
> thinking of the destruction Stewart Traill has caused and what to do about
> it. Spring break is coming up and I will devote not a little time to get
> those tapes in print. They will help some of us realize the truth about
> Stewart. I am convinced that these tapes do that. Out of His own mouth he
> says "I was never a Christian until Jan1989.It still amazes me how he can
> just look at the destruction of the lives in front of him and not only just
> have a "I repented so back off," attitude about it but then to call the
> brethren stupid for listening to him all those years. Blaming them for their
> messed up lives. Do you older brethren remember Stew saying over and over
> again through those years "The older ones just don't want to be
> responsible." Hey Stew, got another observation for ya. You are guilty of
> everything you accused the older ones of. You don't take a stitch of
> responsibility for your actions at all. Where is your mourning. And I must
> say Gayle's light , musical giggling as she sits by your side through this
> catastrophe is almost unbearable. I have to consider how much she really
> understands apart from you. You say over and over that what you have to say
> and had said in the meeting "was shocking" or would shock everyone. But I
> think you purposely ignore the real reason for the shock. Chuck Marburger
> tried to express it but you squashed him. And by the way, Stew...could you
> stop calling him Chuckie. He is a grown Christian man. He has the Spirit of
> God. You claim that you got born again in Jan 1989. There is no difference
> in you except that you are even worse than before. You condemn yourself. You
> condemn yourself. I may have a few tapes here on earth, but My Heavenly
> Father has every careless word you utter. Prepare to perform all your
> unkindness, all your aberrant theology, all your Blasphemies to Him! Repent
> and receive the Holy Spirit. You have not. You never did. You have bad
> fruit. You have evil treasure. Your pride will not allow you to listen to
> me, so take a look around at every human you come in contact with. Your
> first wife, your own children, the Brethren of the Church of Understanding,
> past and present. Did you sin against Noel before or after Jan1989?I already
> know the answer. Did you throw the sisters out of 515 before or after Jan
> 1989? did you touch sisters in Princeton before or after Jan 1989? Oh...but
> Stewart said he got born again...so I guess I'll just coward away and not
> test the spirits to see whether they are of God. Lament every sister in this
> church, past and present. lament every brother for whom Christ died... you
> won't will you.What longing , what alarm, what zeal, what eagerness to clear
> yourself. No, no eagerness. No tears, just your mind and what works, what
> fits. What you can control, what you can understand. You limit God and you
> limit those who follow him. Children are a blessing from the Lord the
> scripture says but the current brothers are content to call the children in
> Haiti their children. He who finds a good wife finds a good thing. But the
> current brothers hide behind Paul's gift. They see your marriage and will
> not marry themselves. They call it "a step backward" an "investment in the
> flesh." What will you say to God for these heresies?You took responsibility
> for their lives at the Grace Meeting. I guess now that you are BORN AGAIN
> you don't have to take any responsibility. You have redefined LOVE, JOY,
> PEACE, PATIENCE , KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS, GENTLENESS, SELF CONTROL
> because you cannot bear these fruits because you have not the Spirit of God.
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Okay ...Chris Hirtler and I are having this one. He appears in Light Blue in the first letter, and I respond in Red in the second, Then He replies in Caps Dark Blue. He is not Shouting. I am now responding in Caps Red

> From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>
>
> >From: Chris Hirtler <chirtler@snet.net>
> >
> >Dear Mike,
> > Chris Hirtler here. ST has fallen into apostasy. He knows Jesus and the
> >Holy Spirit. ST had the gift of discernment then. Now he doesn't. And he
> >is more than backslidden, he is leading others away from the gospel.
>
> First of all Chris, the gifts of God are irrevocable. Solomon kept his
> wisdom.  Stew either had it or he didn't. funny how on the 1973 tape (the
> good years) He says he has that gift and then he asks visitors who come in
> on the meeting if they are born again. Gosh ..don't you think XRAY man could
> have picked that little point up of whether or not a person has the Spirit
> of God?

NOT TRUE, AND I CAN SAY THAT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. THE GIFTS ARE
MOST CERTAINLY NOT IRREVOCABLE. ASK MIKE PAPPIE ABOUT THIS OR ANY OF THE
REALLY OLDER BROTHERS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU BACKSLIDE, (NOT
EQUAL TO LEAVING COBU).OKAY i'LL ASK BUT WHHHHAAAAAAH?
>
> No,
> >he did not start and end as a worldly man, he began in the Spirit and
> >has ended in rebellion and he hopes to take a few with him. Just as with
> >Satan, one asks oneself why he continues on a path that is doomed.
> > I think what many of us, including yourself, are attempting to do is
> >disavow anything that ST has said as being not of the Holy Spirit. This
> >is not in your own or anyone's best interest. To do so will deny one of
> >some of the things that God wants us to know about Himself.

CONSIDER THIS PARAGRAPH REITERATED.
>
> Baloney....Do you hear yourself?  Stew was and is a scientist. He pointed
> out truths anyone of us could have found in any healthy church.

THE ONLY HEALTHY ONES ARE THE ONES WHO DON'T SEE THAT MUCH AND LIFE IS
RELATIVELY SIMPLE FOR THEM. THE ONES I HAVE VISITED CONVENIENTLY IGNORE
(KEY WORD) MANY DEEP ISSUES AND CAN'T HANDLE THE HARD QUESTIONS; EG. WHY
IS THE WORLD CHURCH SO WEAK AND WITHOUT AUTHORITY? WHY DO CHRISTIANS GET
INVOLVED IN POLITICS WHEN THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING SO? IS IT RIGHT OR
WRONG TO BOMB ABORTION CLINICS?  WILL GOD ACCEPT A PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL
INTO HEAVEN? WHY DON'T MIRACLES OCCUR MORE FREQUENTLY AMONG US? WOULD WE
RECOGNIZE JESUS IF HE WERE TO STAND AMONG US? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY
CHURCHES INTERPRET THE BIBLE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND THEY ALL SEEM TO
HAVE PLAUSIBLE ARGUMENTS AND WHY AM I NEVER SURE WHO IS RIGHT? IS IT
WRONG TO CALL GOD A "HE"? AREN'T THERE GONG TO BE MOSLEMS ACCEPTED INTO
HEAVEN? YOU MUST BE VISITING SOME DUD CHURCHES THE 2 CHURCHES I GO TO CAN KNOCK THOSE ANSWERS OUT OF THE PARK. AND , BY THE WAY THIS PART OF THE LETTER IS WHERE YOU SOUND LIKE OLD STEW. " ALL THOSE CCC'S OUT THERE ARE WEAK TEPID CHRISTIANS , THEY DON'T ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS LIKE STEW AND THE FF DO. THE FF IS INTO THE TRUTH MAN...NO GAMES...PREACH IT STEW..PREACH IT

He lacked
> Revelation. Supposedly God talked to him all those years. Listen to the
> tapes. And His attitude and his spirit. Its Stew without the Holy Spirit
> getting off on leading 17 year olds. I think what I lack , and I am glad I
> do  is the many years of spellbinding he did on brothers and sisters.  I am
> not saying all older brothers and sisters are duped and are staying duped
> and are still afraid of talking against Stew. But I am saying is some of my
> brothers in Christ , and I respect you, still have this defense of Stew. The
> mask is off. HE IS A CULT LEADER. SHOW ME THE TAPE WHERE HE shows any fruits
> of the Spirit.  He shows Fruits of the STEWART and still does. I question
> your memory.  You want to say it was God ordained that we come to know him
> through Stew.  Baloney. It is God's Will that we come to know HIM and not get
> led astray.

I WILL NOT BE LED INTO DEFENDING ST. I AM SAYING THAT GOD USED HIM
DESPITE HIMSELF. IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT GUIDED ME THROUGH SOME OF
MY DARKEST HOURS (MANY) WHILE IN COBU AND SOME OF IT WAS ALMOST AUDIBLE.
(IF YOU NEED CLARIFICATION OF THIS I WILL BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN IN A
FUTURE LETTER.) YOUR VERY UNDERSTANDABLE OUTRAGE, WHICH I SHARE, AT ST'S
SINS IS BLINDING YOU TO ANYTHING HE SAID. NOT EVERYTHING WAS NOT OF GOD.
I AM A FRUIT OF THAT WORK, AND SO ARE ALL THE BRETHREN THAT STILL
CONFESS JESUS IF YOU WANT FRUIT. NOT EVERYTHING WE LEARNED WAS FALSE.
JUST AS GOD CAN USE INSIGHT FOR HIS GOOD PURPOSES, SO ALSO CAN SATAN USE
IT FOR HIS. ST EVEN SAID AT A MEETING AT SPRING ST LOFT THAT HE WAS
AFRAID THAT HE MIGHT BE THE ANTICHRIST! (OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE
HEART THE MOUTH SPEAKS, THAT EVEN APPLIES TO ST). I DON'T HAVE TAPES, I
HAVE MY MEMORY OF WHAT AND HOW THINGS WERE SAID AT MEETINGS, QUITE A FEW
OF THEM. I ALSO HAVE A MEMORY OF THE 1984 JULY 4 BIG MEETING WHERE ALL I
SAW WAS A STRUTTING POMPOUS BOSSY WINDBAG WHERE AT ONE TIME I SAW,
(YEARS BEFORE) GOD TEACHING US THROUGH ST. REMEMBER, I HAVE CALLED ST
APOSTATE! AND I SAY IT AGAIN!CHRIS, I AM NOT TRYING TO GOAD YOU OR ANYONE INTO BASHING STEW. I AM SAYING OPENLY WHAT I BELIEVE HE WAS AND IS. I MUST PERFORM THESE WORDS TO MY GOD AND I SHALL. I MUST PROCLAIM THE TRUTH I KNOW AND UNDERSTAND. STEWART'S SIN'S DON'T BLIND ME! YOU ARE AGAIN SAYING THAT GOD USED STEWART TO IMPART GOD'S TRUTHS DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT..DESPITE HIMSELF. I HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF KNOWING WHAT YOU WROTE LATER IN THIS LETTER SO DON'T THINK I AM STRETCHING HERE. YOU SAY THAT STEW WAS A CHRISTIAN WHO BACKSILD. I SAY THAT HE NEVER WAS A CHRISTIAN. WHETHER OR NOT THE SCIENTIST FOUND TRUE THINGS IS IRRELEVANT.
WHY DO YOU CREDIT STEWART WITH THE FRUIT OF THOSE WHO STILL CONFESS JESUS. ASK NANCY COOGAN IF SHE CONSIDERS HERSELF ONE OF STEWART'S FRUITS...ASK EVERYONE ON THE ONELIST. MY POINT IS THAT THE 1 JOHN 1989 TAPE SAYS IT ALL...FROM STEW HIMSELF. COBU WAS A NON-CHRISTIAN TRYING TO CONTROL AND TAKE CREDIT FOR AND BE IDENTIFIED WITH A BUNCH OF REAL CHRISTIANS WHO DID HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD. HOW COME ALL THESE OUT SIDE CHRISTIANS TRIED TO WARN US. HOW COME STEW FOUGHT THEM SO HARD. EVEN FROM THE BEGINNING. CHRIS THE PICTURE IS CLEAR. A NON CHRISTIAN (A WOLF) ABUSING THE FLOCK. FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. HE WAS LESS SO IN THE BEGINNING BUT NEVERTHELESS HE WAS .
> I was there
> >and I saw what I saw. My spirit agreed with much of what was
> >taught,(back then, not now for certain!), although I could not bring
> >myself to believe that Jesus would have us treat each other as ST and
> >his lackeys did. (Remember, I left in Feb 79, and it got more insane and
> >obviously a worldly work after I left.) ALL RIGHT I CANT SAY TO YOU "NO, CHRIS  YOUR SPIRIT DID NOT AGREE. I WOULD JUST ASK YOU TO EXAMINE WHAT THAT MEANS. DID YOUR SPIRIT AGREE OR YOUR MIND......THERE WERE TIMES WHEN STEWART WAS ACTUALLY "NICE TO ME"  GUESS HOW I INTERPRETED THAT. OH WOW  MY SPIRIT IS RIGHT BEFORE GOD ..I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK....PRAISE GOD....THATS MY EMOTIONS AND MEMORY...REALITY?....HE WAS MANIPULATING ME.  HE WAS DUPING ME. YOU CAN'T BRING YOURSELF TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS WOULD HAVE US TREAT EACH OTHER AS STEWART AND HIS LACKEYS DID?  NOW YOU'RE TALKING FRUIT.....WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS...BUT THE FRUIT....THE FRUIT BROTHER ...THE FRUIT
>
> Dear Brother ...do you wish for the rest of the brothers and sisters WHO
> WERE THERE to write you and tell you their horror stories? You pick the time
> frame. You pick.  Jim Jones may have preached some truths before going to
> Guyana.

I WAS THERE FROM MAY 75 TO FEB 79. I SAY AGAIN THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT USED
ST DURING THOSE TIMES, AND THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT HE WAS NOT ABOVE
REPROACH AT ANY TIME, EVEN THE EARLY DAYS EITHER. THERE WERE OLDER
BROTHERS WHO WERE CLOSE ENOUGH AND KNEW ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THEY SAW ST
"DUMMING DOWN" THE BIBLE STUDIES. THIS WAS AROUND 76-77 AND IT WAS A
GRADUAL AND DELIBERATE DECLINE. THE BIBLE STUDIES FROM THE EARLY YEARS
WERE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE THAT CAME AFTER. I CAME IN AND WAS
COGNIZANT JUST ABOUT WHEN THIS WAS TAKING PLACE. BUT I SAW ENOUGH THAT I
NOTICED IT, BUT NOT AS CLEARLY. OKAY I AND I WOULD SAY THAT STEW WAS CHANGING HIS TACTICS BUT HE WAS STILL STEWING US. CHECK THE 1973, THEN THE 1980, THEN THE 1989. IT'S STEW STEW STEW.....DIFFERENT TEACHING , NEW BRAVE DIRECTIONS, BETTER MANIPULATION, BUT ITS STEW STEW STEW...EVERYONE SINGING IT STEW STEW STEW
>
> > I submit that we in the early days learned about God and His nature,
> >despite ST and his excesses even back then, and we should not throw what
> >we learned back then away. And I may add that this is hard for some to
> >hear because of their own revulsion toward the truth, that is, their own
> >disobedience inherent in their hearts towards the real Jesus. - How br>> >convenient for the flesh to find opportunity to cast away all restraint!

I DON'T MEAN HEDONISM. I MEAN LOSING SIGHT OF THE REAL JESUS FOR A
COMFORTABLE AND PALATABLE VIEW. FALSE RELIGION. COMPROMISE.
"CHURCHIANITY" - LIVING AS A CHRISTIAN RATHER THAN YEARNING TO BE LIKE
HIM.  YEAH NOT LIKE US FFer's...WE ARE NOT INTO PLAYING CHURCH...WE AREN'T INTO GAMES. CHRIS LISTEN TO YOURSELF.....AND THINK ABOUT WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO. IF I DIDN'T KNOW BETTER I WOULD SAY THAT YOU ARE CALLING ME AND THE OTHERS ON THE SIGHT HYPOCRITES. YOU THINK WE ARE NOT OBEDIENT TO THE REAL JESUS. YOU JUDGE US LIKE WE JUDGED EACH OTHER IN COBU WITH STEWART'S PRODDING. I BELIEVE MIKE PAPPIE IS A SINCERE CHRISTIAN, I BELIEVE NANCY AND JIM ARE ON FIRE FOR GOD AND WOULD LEAVE TOMORROW FOR PARTS UNKNOWN TO DO THE WILL OF THE REAL JESUS. DAVE PARADIS HAS A TALENT FROM GOD FOR PRECISION IN WRITING THAT HE USES FOR THE GLORY OF GOD. THE LIST GOES ON....I AM WITH INDIGNATION TELLING YOU TO YOUR FACE THAT YOU HAVE SLAPPED OUR BRETHREN IN THE FACE WITH YOUR RHETORIC.  IF YOU WANT TO HOLD THE ATHEISTS TO ACCOUNT  DO SO...BUT IN LOVE....BUT DO NOT SIT THERE AND ACCUSE THESE BRETHREN OF HAVING THEIR CAKE AND
 EATING IT TOO. FORSOOTH!
>
> I take issue. I take issue. That you could ...not even openly charge these
> brothers and sisters and myself with wanting to throw off restraint. Brother
> ...do you hear yourself? You learned about God and His Nature from a
> scientist and a twisted one at that.

WRONG. THE HOLY SPIRIT DEALT WITH ME DIRECTLY FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT A
YEAR, MID 77-78, ROUGHLY. I WAS ALONE ALOT AT WORK AND I SPENT ALL MY
TIME PRAYING AND READING THE BIBLE AS I MADE HAND TRUCK DELIVERIES IN
THE GARMENT DISTRICT. PRAISE GOD !  THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDED AND PROTECTED ALL OF US FROM WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN OUR DESTRUCTION. NOTHING TO DO WITH STEW. IN FACT PRAISE GOD FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT PROTECTING ME FROM STEW.

How he treated his first wife is also
> telling. then he marries a 19 year old 6 weeks later.  Those were the good
> years Chris, those were the less insane years. He bore fruit back then.
> Check his fruit

I THINK ST HAD A LOT TO DO WITH HIS FIRST MARRIAGE FAILING. PERIOD.
ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THESE NEWEST REVELATIONS FROM CHRIS BLAISE. BUT I
SEE A LOT OF COMPROMISE. AND I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE PERFECTED EITHER. BUT
I STILL SEE COMPROMISE. GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN OUR OPINIONS ABOUT HIM.
HE IS WHO HE IS AND WILL NOT BE ANY DIFFERENT WHEN WE SEE HIM, DESPITE
OUR GOOD INTENTIONS. MANY OF US HAVE THROWN AWAY WHAT WE KNOW TO BE TRUE
ABOUT GOD'S NATURE BECAUSE IT IS THE EASIER WAY, AND ST'S UNFAITHFULNESS
IS GIVING US A PRETEXT, A BIG ONE, TO DO SO. I SUBMIT THAT THIS IS A
TRIAL FOR US, TO SEE WHO WANTS TO KNOW HIM AS HE IS AND WHO WANTS TO
MAKE UP THEIR OWN JESUS. NOW THAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN SCATTERED FOR SOME
YEARS, IT NOW REMAINS WHO STILL CAN RECOGNIZE HIM AND WHO HAS INVENTED A
NEW "JESUS". HUMAN NATURE DOES NOT CHANGE PARTICULARLY WITH ITS
WELL-KNOWN PROPENSITY FOR INVENTING WAYS TO GET AROUND THE CROSS. I SEE
VERY LITTLE DISCUSSION OF THE FLESH'S DESIGNS IN OUR CORRESPONDENCES,
YET IT IS ESPECIALLY NOW, NOW THAT WE'RE OLDER, THAT WE SHOULD BE EVEN
MORE VIGILANT. UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT CONDEMNING, I AM SIMPLY WARNING.
THE ENEMY IS NO MORE BENIGN AND LESS CLEVER THAN WE HAD LEARNED ABOUT.
OUR WALK SHOULD NOT BE A SIMPLE ONE, IF IT IS. AND IF WE ARE BLISSFUL
ABOUT IT, I SAY THAT WE ARE IN DANGER. YEAH CUZ WE FF/COBUites...WE KNOW THE REAL JESUS...NO COMPROMISE HERE BABY....CHRIS YOU SOUND LIKE YOU JUST DROPPED OUT OF STEWART'S TURBO PROP. WHO ARE YOU POINTING THESE FF-STYLE ACCUSATIONS OF COMPROMISE AT? WHO IS THE FELLOW...LET US B-B-Q THE HERETIC.....I JEST.....WHO ARE YOU SEPARATING OUT AS UNFAITHFUL OR CREATING A FALSE JESUS? DO YOU SEE THAT THERE IS STILL FF IN YOU THAT NEEDS WEEDING OUT. I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE SOME AMONG US WHO MIGHT BE WEAK IN OUR FAITH. YOU WHO ARE STRONG OUGHT TO BEAR WITH THE FAILING S OF THE WEAK. IF THERE IS HERESY..BY ALL MEANS ATTACK...BUT YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT HERE...YOU ARE JUDGING SOMEONE THE OLD WAY...YOU ARE POINTING TO A HIGHER OCTANE CHRISTIANITY....AND SOME HOW ....SOME OF US DON'T HAVE YOUR PRESCRIBED GAS TANK.
>
> > That leaves a huge responsibility upon those who are left to discern
> >what to keep and what to throw away. And this will not be proven through
> >scriptural debate. Since it is the scripture that bears witness to the
> >Spirit and not the other way around, it will be up to us to have to
> >judge according to the Spirit that God put in us because that is what
> >God gave us to be our Guide. And it is He who will be able to transform
> >us into the likeness of Jesus. LAST PART SOUNDED GOOD ....FIRST PART?....WHAAAAAHHHHHH.......YOU ARE STARTING TO SOUND LIKE GOD'S GREEN BERETS AGAIN.....WE WHO ARE LEFT?....AHH  THE ELECT.....THE 144....THE CHOSEN......THE FEW THE PROUD THE_____________<------YOUR NAME HERE......WHAT ARE YOU DOING? ARE WE BACK TO COLOR JUDGMENT? SHEEP FROM THE GOATS....AM I SPEAKING LOUD ENOUGH?  AND YOUR COMMENT ON THE SPIRIT OF GOD.....HMMM  I NEED HELP FROM SMARTER BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I NEED CLARIFICATION.....DOES NOT THE SPIRIT GUIDE US INTO ALL THE TRUTH? SO HE DOES BEAR WITNESS TO THE SCRIPTURES TOO. AND THE SCRIPTURES BEAR WITNESS TO HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKS. CHRIS, YOURE NOT THINKING OF FORMING A GROUP OF YOUR OWN ARE YOU?

WHEN I FIRST FOUND THIS WEBSITE, I WANTED TO KNOW MANY MANY THINGS ABOUT
ST AND WHAT REALLY WENT ON. AND I AM SAD TO SAY THAT MOST OF MY
SUSPICIONS WERE PROVEN CORRECT, BUT I AM HUGELY RELIEVED THAT I CAN SEE
MORE CLEARLY WHO GOD IS NOW AND WHO ST REALLY WAS BEHIND THE SCENES.
THIS HAS NOT BEEN AN ALL AT ONCE OCCURRENCE. THE THINGS THAT I KNEW ABOUT
HIM (GOD) HAVE BEEN PROVEN OVER THESE LAST 20 SOME ODD YEARS, WITHOUT
ST'S INPUT. AND MY EYES HAVE BEEN OPENED (RECENTLY) AND BECOME SHARPER
AS I HAVE PRAYED AND ASKED FOR HIS HELP, (WHICH HE HAS GIVEN IN THE
OBVIOUS MANIFESTATIONS THAT I KNEW HIM TO GIVE TO ME DURING THE "REIGN
OF TERROR" AT THE MTC.)
>
> I kinda agree here but in another way. Its not sorting the good and bad of
> Stewart's teaching. Its sorting out the The Holy Spirit's teaching and
> guiding us from Stewart Traill.

THIS IS A VERY TRUE STATEMENT. IT IS NOT "IN A DIFFERENT WAY". I AGREE
100% WITH YOU HERE AND VICE-VERSA, BECAUSE IT IS THE VERY POINT I AM
MAKING. AND I ADD THAT MANY ARE AFRAID OF THE REAL JESUS. IT GIVES ME NO
PLEASURE TO SAY THIS, BUT IT IS WHAT I SEE. I HEAR, "SPEAK TO US SMOOTH
THINGS!" WHO IS DOING THIS CHRIS.....DO YOU SEE HOW TERRIBLE THIS IS. YOU ARE SAYING TO BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST THAT THEY ARE A BUNCH OF SPEAK TO US SMOOTH THINGS TYPE CHRISTIANS...WHO HAVE YOU BEEN TALKING TO ....WHAT IS GOING ON CHRIS?....WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE THIS.?

   In the 1 John 1989 tape Stew gives a false
> choice in the beginning. He says "I guess God gave you a choice between
> grievous wolves and Stewart, of which I am not, so its grievous wolves or
> Stewart. Thats the choice."  WRONG STEW and Wrong Chris. Its not the choice.

DO YOU REALLY THINK I AGREE WITH THIS? ST IS A WOLF. THIS WAS SAID WAY
AFTER MY TIME, WHEN I HAVE SAID THAT HE WENT AROUND THE BEND. THE POINT IS STEW WAS A WOLF IN YOUR TIME TOO.....HE WAS ALWAYS A NON CHRISTIAN DESTROYING WHEREVER HE WENT.

> > It is also important in our dealing with the issue of what to discard
> >is to not resort to worldly techniques or psychology or personal agendas
> >whose ends are no less opposed to God's as ST's is in their final
> >outcome.  Chris
>
> come out and say it Chris...you think I am into my head on all
> this.....Listen , Stewart is wrong on the Bible. Try to tell him that.
> Stewart is wrong on his treatment of others. Try to tell him that and try to
> understand his destruction. It is spelled out in the Bible and can be
> studied psychologically. Sociologically. You name it. Test the spirits to
> see whether they are of God. How do you do that Chris? What do you look at.
> Psychology belongs to God too.

YES, HE IS WRONG NOW. THERE IS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND ABOUT THAT
STATEMENT. AND EVEN IN THE EARLY 80'S HE WAS WAY OFF. AND I'M NOT EVEN
SAYING HE TREATED US RIGHT, EVER. MAYBE THIS IS THE HEART OF THE MATTER
WHERE YOU MISUNDERSTAND ME. I AM SAYING THAT GOD USED ST ...DESPITE
STEWART....DESPITE HIM....I AMD NOT SAYING THAT ST WAS EVER COMPLETELY
RIGHT TOWARDS GOD AND US. BUT GOD SAW FIT TO USE HIM ANYWAY. WHO SAYS
THAT SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT WITH GOD FOR GOD TO USE HIM. DAVID SURE
WASN'T.
 

I HAVE UNDERLINED YOUR COMMENTS ABOVE TO MAKE THEM STICK OUT. YOU ARE POINTING TO FRUIT IN THE FIRST LINER. YOU ARE SAYING THAT GOD USED A WOLF TO TEACH US ABOUT HIMSELF....WELL...I GUESS IN A BIG PICTURE KINDA WAY...YES GOD USED STEW. MY PRAYER LIFE IS ALOT STRONGER BECAUSE I DEPEND ON GOD TO HEAL ME FROM THE DAMAGE STEW CAUSED. AND MY PRAYER LIFE IS VIBRANT AS I PRAY FOR THOSE STILL UNDER HIM. SO YEAH I GUESS GOD NEEDS STEW TO BE RIGHT WHERE HE IS......IT'S GOD'S WAY OF GETTING US TO DEPEND ON HIM MORE. GEE I HOPE STEW MOVE NEXT DOOR TO ME HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND FORCES ME TO LISTEN TO HIS HERESIES AND WICKEDNESS. I HOPE MY CHILDREN ARE EXPOSED TO HIS SPIRIT. THEN MY SON AND DAUGHTER WILL HAVE A FAITH SO AS TO REMOVE MOUNTAINS.   NO NO BROTHER...YOU DON'T TREAT WOLVES LIKE THAT AND GOD DOES NOT INSTRUCT US TO DEFEND THE EXISTENCE OF WOLVES IN THE FOLD...HE COMMANDS US TO WAR.

AND YOUR SECOND COMMENT...GOD SAW FIT TO USE HIM......STEW WOULD LOVE YOU.....READ THE GRACE MEETING NOTES...THAT PHRASE IS EVERYWHERE...GOD SAW FIT...IT WAS GOD'S WILL......BLAH BLAH BLAH....BALONEY!!!!!!!!!.......WE WERE COWARDS...WE DID NOT STOP HIM...AND WE DO NOT STOP HIM NOW....WHO IN COBU NOW WILL STOP HIM FROM DESTROYING THE SISTERS AND THEMSELVES....AND THEY WEAKLY CHANT THESE VERSES THAT KEEP THEM HELPLESS AND POWERLESS AND YOU THINK GOD APPROVES....ACCORDING TO YOU GOD IS SEEING FIT TO USE HIM NOW ON OUR BRETHREN IN CHRIST...IS THAT IT CHRIS......YOU DON'T THINK GOD WOULD EVER  HAVE US TREAT EACH OTHER THE WAY STEW AND LACKEYS DID......WELL HE IS NOT SO HOT ON STEW'S TREATMENT OF OTHERS TODAY EITHER.  BUT ACCORDING TO YOU...GOD SAW FIT....AND THEN YOU GO AFTER BRETHREN ON THIS SITE FOR COMPROMISE...YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING THE REAL BATTLE....YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING THE REAL ENEMY. JOHN THE APOSTLE AND PAUL THE APOSTLE MENTION THE WOLVES BY NAME.. THEY INSTRUCTED ACTION TO BE TAKEN.
PSYCHOLOGY? NO IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT. PSYCHOLOGY IS ATTEMPTING TO
HEAL THE HUMAN SOUL WITHOUT GOD IN THE PICTURE. IT PROCEEDS FROM THE
FALSE PREMISE THAT ANY HEALING CAN BE DONE WITHOUT GOD, "CHRISTIAN"
PSYCHOLOGISTS INCLUDED. AND I AM TARGETING WORLDLY THEORIES THAT THESE
CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGISTS WOULD WEAVE INTO SOME PSEUDO-SPIRITUAL
HODGE-PODGE SPECIFICALLY. KNOWING THE TRUTH IS WHAT SETS US FREE, NOT
SOME PSYCHIC SLEIGHT IF HAND. I'VE SEEN THAT NONSENSE IN ACTION, WAY
BEFORE I GOT SAVED AND HEARD ABOUT COBU AND I SAW THROUGH IT EVEN THEN,
WHEN I WAS IN THE WORLD. THERE IS NO POWER IN IT. "TEST THE SPIRITS TO
SEE IF THEY ARE OF GOD" - THE ONLY WAY I CAN DESCRIBE IT IS TO SAY IT IS
"THE EAR TASTES WORDS AS THE PALATE TASTES FOOD" - BEST I CAN DO. THAT'S
WHAT I DO.WELL IF YOU WANT TO NARROW THE DEFINITION OF PSYCHOLOGY TO THE WACKY KIND...BE MY GUEST...I WAS REFERRING TO REAL PSYCHOLOGY. THE MIND AND HOW IT WORKS. THE MIND MEANING A LOT OF THINGS. LIKE WHAT HAPPENS TO A CHILD WHO IS VIOLENTLY ABUSED BY HIS PARENTS? AND WHY DOES THAT CHILD GROW UP TO BECOME AN ABUSER. THEIR IS TRUTH IN SCIENCE, PSYCHOLOGY, AND MOST OTHER SUBJECTS....THEY ALL BELONG TO GOD. THE REAL VERSIONS OF THESE SUBJECTS. NOT THE STUDIES THAT TRY TO TAKE THE PLACE OF THE GOSPEL. I DO NOT SAY THAT HEALING COMES FROM PSYCHOLOGY ALONE.....AND NOT GODLESS PSYCHOLOGY.  WE HAVE A SPIRIT OF POWER LOVE AND A SOUND MIND.  LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART , MIND , SOUL  STRENGTH.  YOU SEEM TO EXHIBIT THE SAME AVERSION TO COLLEGE AND EDUCATION OLD STEW DID BACK IN THE FF.
>
> I am sickened. Not by your note but by Stewart's destruction and damage on
> us all.  And it continues. God , please end this destruction either by life
> or by death.OKAY I AM A LITTLE POETIC HERE ...I MEAN......GOD......END COBU EITHER BY STEWART REPENTING OR THAT YOU GOD END HIS LIFE. THERE IS ANOTHER CHOICE....GOD COULD JUST REMOVE HIM FROM COBU AND SPARE HIS LIFE...SORRY ...THAT ONE DID NOT COME TO MIND.  I WAS EMOTIONAL
>
> MikeMontoya

MIKE, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE? ST IS ONLY ACTIVELY HURTING THOSE STILL
IN. HE ISN'T HURTING US NOW. OR ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT I AM "DAMAGED"? IF
I AM DAMAGED, WHY IS HE HELPING ME IN DIRECT, OBVIOUS WAYS AND WHY IS HE
OPENING UP MY EYES? I AM NOT A HAUNTED MAN. I AM USUALLY HAPPY. I SEE
GOD BLESSING ME WITH HELP AND PEACE, ESPECIALLY IN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS.
MY KIDS SEE A DIFFERENCE IN ME; I'M NOT SO HIT BY "ROAD RAGE" AND I'VE
BEEN ABLE TO PUT OFF THE CONSTANT CONTEMPT WITH WHICH I VIEWED THE
UNSAVED. AND THERE IS MORE BUT I THINK I'VE DESCRIBED MYSELF ENOUGH.
ONCE AGAIN CHRIS YOU ARE DOING WHAT I USED TO DO AND HOPE I DON'T DO ANYMORE.  LET ME CALL IT  "HOPE BY ASSOCIATION"....GOD IS HELPING YOU AND DIRECTING YOU...BUT DOES THAT MEAN YOU ARE NOT DAMAGED? GOD IS HEALING ME AND HELPING ME . LOOK AT MY WRITINGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD...I AM STILL DAMAGED...BUT THAT DOES NOT NEGATE THE WORK OF GOD IN ME.  "HOPE BY ASSOCIATION"  GOD TAUGHT ME IN COBU...STEWART WAS IN COBU...THEREFORE STEWART IS GOD...OKAY THAT'S A STRETCH BUT NOT MUCH OF ONE. WE PUT STEW IN THE GENERAL VICINITY OF THE WORK OF GOD AND WE GIVE ALITTLE CREDIT TO OLE STEWY FOR BEING IN THE STADIUM WHEN GOD HIT THE HOME RUN.   READ THE GRACE NOTES AND WHEN I TRANSCRIBE THE 1 JOHN READ THAT...OLD STEW WANTS TO BE COUNTED WITH THE CHRISTIANS......ISHACAR(SP) CROUCHING AMONG THE SHEEP FOLDS...DOES THAT FIT?  HE IS NOT A SHEEP BUT WANTS TO BENEFIT LIKE ONE.  STEW CROUCHED AND SAYS I'M A SHEEP TOO..."I WAS AS MUCH OR MORE A VICTIM THAN YOU" THATS FORM THE GRACE MEETING...COME ON...
WHAT I AM SAYING IS FOR WARNING, NOT FOR FIGHTING OR CONDEMNATION. I
JUST CAN'T LET SOME OF THE STUFF GO THAT I SEE. "ECUMENISM" IS
SYNONYMOUS WITH COMPROMISE AND I SEE IT HAPPENING. ARE WE PEOPLE WHO
WANT TO KNOW THE TRUE GOD OR DO WE WANT TO BE "BABES IN CHRIST" FOR
FIFTY YEARS?   CHRIS

YEAH CUZ WE FFer's DON'T PLAY GAMES....CHRIS,  JULY 1980 STEWART DID A WHOLE HOUR ON WHAT YOU SAID.....HE HAMMERS THE OLDER ONES FOR NOT WANTING TO GROW UP. aND NO CHRIS YOURE NOT DOING IT THE APOSTLE 'S WAY..YOU ARE DOING A STEW.  LET ME PARAPHRASE......HEY YOU, STOP COMPROMISING......BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YER REALLY UP TO...YOU SNEAKY SPIRIT YOU.....GOT TO GROW UP...BE RESPONSIBLE....FALL INTO THE EARTH AND DIE...BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO......DO YOU CHUCKIE?......ITS STEW STEW STEW......IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY THAT DIVISION THING HERE ON THIS ONELIST OR ON THIS SITE..THEN LET ME BE THE FIRST TO MAKE YOUR JOB EASY........(I AM OVER HERE NOW CHRIS......RIGHT OVER HERE...YOU ARE OVER THERE....OVER THERE....I AM OVER HERE........RIGHT OVER HERE)
 

TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST:::: THIS IS HARD FOR ME.  DO WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT AND WHO STEW IS?  DO WE NEED TO KNOW GREEK TO STUDY THE NEW TESTAMENT? I SAY FOR SOME YES TO BOTH. FOR SOME. STEW ALWAYS WENT FOR THE "ANSWER"  THE "SOLUTION" ...BLASTED SCIENTIST.......BUT YOU WON'T GET THAT FROM ME.  MAUREEN GRIFFO IS IN A CERTAIN PLACE...NANCY C. IS IN A CERTAIN PLACE.....I AM IN A CERTAIN PLACE...MY BROTHER DAVE, WHO IS MY SMARTER AND BETTER LOOKING BROTHER IS IN A CERTAIN PLACE.  YES , WE MUST FIGHT AND ARGUE AND FIND THE TRUTH...THIS IS NOT LET'S JUST GET ALONG.....WE ALL NEED HEALING...WE ARE ALL GETTING HEALED...AS JESUS IS FAITHFUL......KNOWING WHAT STEWART IS ...THAT KNOWLEDGE.....I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR......JUST AS THE APOSTLES INSTRUCTED THE EARLY CHURCH TO TAKE ACTION. GOD WILL ASK THEM WHAT THEY DID WITH HYMENAUS AND NICHOLAS AND THE REST OF THE WOLVES. GOD MAY CALL YOU TO PRAY, TO WRITING AND INFORMING, TO RESCUING THOSE INSIDE BY LETTER AND LOVE. I AM OPEN TO ALL THAT GOD WANTS ME TO DO IN THIS MATTER. I AM GOING TO STRIVE WITH ALL MY BEING BY HIS SPIRIT TO END COBU IF GOD WANTS IT ENDED. I DON'T SEE OTHERWISE BUT AM OPEN TO OTHERWISE. I WILL WRITE THE BOOK , I WILL TRANSCRIBE THE 130 TAPES, I WILL ASK YOU FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL TESTIMONIES SO THAT I CAN WRITE AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT. I DO NOT WANT A SINGLE PERSON TO BE ADDED TO COBU AS LONG AS IT EXIST, AND I WILL WORK TILL THE LAST ONE IS OUT AND IS HELPED IN A RECOVERY. THAT IS MY HEART. I DO NOT SAY THAT YOU MUST JOIN ME. sorry I just realized that I was shouting....I will go to school, I will learn Greek, I will learn English,,,, don't worry Chris, I will be learning God's English.  this is what God has shown me. I will learn his word by His Spirit to the point of accountability to God Himself and His throne. That is what I am bound to do in GOD.  I can love those with whom I disagree. But I will not tolerate false doctrine and innuendo. I am not speaking to you Chris H.  You want truth? now I am talking to Chris H. you want no compromise. Then I will send you all the information I have You read the whole thing. And then you take action on your knowledge. I am not a hypocrite. I am doing exactly what I am saying. I am not compromising, You say openly who these brethren are. They have a right to know. By your dim proclamations you put these brethren in doubt of their faith...the very thing that wicked servant did all those years.  I say to you..apologize....speak to these brethren openly and do not conduct yourself the way that wicked man did and does
 

May God humble me with your corrections if I have spoken wrongly

Mike Montoya
> >

=================================================================
Dear Chris H. & Mike M. - Both of you won't tolerate much will you?  This
is Nancy Coogan, and as your sister I tell you boys to take it outside.
It is too hard to read for the rest of us.  I love both of you, and you
both have lots of hurts and anger.  Don't turn it on each other and make
hard feelings.  Little children, love one another.  You won't know this
side of eternity, Okay? I know for "intellectuals" (or at least pseudo-
intellectuals such as ourselves), not UNDERSTANDING is a kind of mental
torture.  But for the grace of God any of us could have fallen into the
atheist's camp. ST did talk the talk in the beginning, (yes, harshly, but
as kids we thought we needed that).  We weren't idiots.  He was
fascinating.  He did "SEEM" to have the Holy Spirit, many brethren from
the beginning are saying so.  But now we see that even in the beginning
he was slick.  Possibly it is like the angel of light thing, who knows?
The devil is a lot bigger than us and we may never know the exact answer
about ST in this lifetime.  We may have to hold that question until
Heaven.  Maybe there were some good intentions mixed in with all that
stuff where he was setting Shirley up to fail and as Chris Blaise put it
"trading up to a newer model" in Gayle.  Maybe he was very self deceived.
People possessed of demons often think they are holy beings/voices
guiding them... Not to be frivolous in language choice but maybe the
question is "who in Hell is he?" (or will he be) rather than what old
testament character he's supposed to be like...
And thanks for the compliment on me and Jim, Mike, but God just showed me
tonight in a personal way that He has us right where He wants us for now.
Our church is awesome.  People are getting healed.  In our own way we
are getting healed here too.  We are in ministry, praise God!  It is a
bigger story than I can write here.  But Jesus is being so personal with
me!  I love Him so much!   I will tell you one thing - Chris B. is right
on the money that some of what we are going through with the resurgence
of all this stuff coming out in us (because of the site a lot) is that
God is pressing out our wounds.  These are deep, old wounds.  And I agree
that there are a lot of wheat stories of COBU among the tares. That is
what happened to me.  I think we could very well have a revival of
healing at our reunion.  I think God knows what He is doing because He's
not finished with us yet.  I think we were called to COBU to learn
something unique that He intends to use still.  I don't know how to
describe it yet.  I just know something big is still on its way with us.
Some people believe there is a second wave of the Jesus movement coming
among this rising generation...
No, I am definitely NOT a fruit of ST.  I probably had all of 3 minor
conversations with the man, and about 2 major insults thrown my way in
public meetings.  I was never close to him or Gayle.  She was nice to me
in a minor way once in a Loft meeting where sister's fellowship ones had
made me sit with the trip sisters (they were at least more real in ways)
and she said something to the effect of "surely you are mistaken about
Nancy here" on my  behalf.  Jim said she was nice to him in Haiti because
it was like they had something in common - ST was bashing them both and
she was miserable the whole time they were there.  No, I am a fruit of
whatever good there was at the New Brunswick fellowship where Steve Evans
was my fellowship leader.  God reached into my life when I was in utter
sin, the kind of girl you wouldn't imagine "could" get saved.  I had an
encounter with the Holy Spirit when I got born again, Jan. 12, 1976 at
about 8PM, and another "filling" when Jim and I were preparing for the
pastoral ministry in GA.  The people who actually prayed with me to get
saved were Jeanette Firgeau, Fran Bonafini, Jack Rubinson (he was an old
boyfriend in high school and introduced me to the fellowship, he later
ended up in Virginia and married a sister when they left, Debbie White -
they have since divorced) and Steve Evans who came in later from street
witnessing.  Guys, it was important to me that Jeanette knew the Bible -
I was impressed mainly at her sincerity more than her knowledge, however.
Jim was witnessed to by Darlene Griffith, but after she witnessed to
him, he got down by the side of his bed like when he was a kid and prayed
the sinner's prayer sincerely himself.  You should hear his whole amazing
testimony, maybe he can tell you at the reunion.  Anyway, my point in
writing to you both is that it is more important that you guys come to
love each other than that either of you are "right."  Whatever ST was at
first, he is certainly evil now.  And he is certainly human, being
possessed by Something.  Something that appears to have fooled a great
many of us, and is still fooling many. I do not NOW believe it was the
Holy Spirit, but a counterfeit.  Those can be really hard to discern.  I
think you both agree that good happened in COBU mostly in spite of ST. It
was the wheat growing with the tares.  It may be that the man did want to
be righteous at one time, he certainly made it out to be so.  You guys
aren't going to answer it.  I'm certainly not saying "get over it."  I'm
just worried that you two, who are basically in agreement on many points,
are taking out some of the frustration you feel about some of this stuff
(I won't presume with either of you to say which part of this X-cobu
stuff is getting to you individually) by turning too much on each other,
and on others on the site.  You kids quit fighting and play nice... :)
No, I'm not exactly saying that either, because you are both grown men
and have your reasons for what you believe.  I'm just saying you have a
lot in common also, and like it or not we live in a very fallen, very
imperfect world, with hearts that are longing for perfection.  Let's just
hope in perfect love.  To look into our Judge's face and see a Savior
there, as the song goes... none of us are perfectly "right," and if we
were, we would be awfully lonely, don't you think, without tolerance?
your sis

___________________________________________________________________

From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>

I agree to rest this one. I also do not think it is a matter of winning. I
am realizing that , as regards Stew, what he was is important to me but may
not be important to you. What he is now is very important to me. As for
compromise on this site or in ourselves...I still want names...and I don't
think I will get them...so I think this is not right. Chris , when you say
something like this to all of us...it has a Stew effect.  Now we have to
wonder who you are talking about. Now there is the division thing. You don't
have to agree with others. And if you question their commitment to Jesus,
email them personally and be open. Don't treat us like a group because in
many ways we are not. I don't know. I just am sensitive about talking to
everyone about their faith. A preacher puts out a message that The Holy
Spirit can convict the individual on or confirm his or her path. Cobu was
full of division and who isn't playing games. There was always the
suspicion. Stew always treated us like "we were trying to Get Over on Jesus.
Now I know what's bugging me. Its all the ways Stew used to say things. He
always suspected us. Always called us sneaky, deceitful, playing games. I
remember feeling guilty for things I later recalled I wasn't guilty of. The
Holy Spirit has always...always gently shown me when I was being false to
the truth, but He never rubbed my face in my sin and acted disgusted with
me.

I do think we are all capable great evil and great good. But to be some kind
of patrol man or watch dog Where did we learn to treat each other like this.
My new attitude is assume that the brother or sister is walking with God to
the fullest and if they are troubled then talk to them and restore them if
necessary. Stew assumed the worse and he caused us to assume the worse. Is
it our business to inventory each other? I am questioning myself here to. I
am writing straight from the present here. I assume all on liners are
Christians and faithful.  What's wrong with that? What if they are not? Are
we responsible for others walk? Only in so far as we can help by love. Some
might say ...you love by telling the truth. Sorry ...too COBU for me. I will
tell the truth. But gosh ...serving comes first.  Were not we all trained to
first size up a brother or sister first before really getting to love them.
I just remember an old direction from Stew. It went something like find out
where a brother or sister is coming from before you fellowship with them,
cuz you might be fellowshipping with them in their sin. So we put on the X
ray vision and checked a brother or sister out and if the coast was clear
then we proceeded. Of course how close can you then be after a full body
cavity search. This whole thing about judging each other and checking each
other and making sure this and that. Seems to come from the same place of I
am responsible for the salvation of all whom I come in contact with.   I
like you Chris Hirtler. I never knew you before the site. I like full
contact Mars Hill. I have learned alot from many who agree and disagree with
me. I am learning more about the Bible and God's will and Cobu. I am more
specific in my prayers for them and Stew. I am more clear on Stew's
destructive patterns. Helps me avoid anyone in the world who acts like that.
Anyone in th church who acts like that.

I guess my main beef is the judging , suspicious, stuff. It is Stew to me.

your Brother
Mike
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris Hirtler <chirtler@snet.net>

To all my fellow COBU survivors,
I have a great need to say this: I am not angry at anyone who has
responded to what I have written. I am attempting to warn against
compromise. And I don't want everyone to either throw the good out with
the bad nor use ST for a scapegoat for pain that they themselves may be
responsible for. It would be very easy to do.
Mike, for all of what we've been hurling at each other, I'm not sore at
you or anyone else. I am right now here saying that I am not angry or
hurt or bitter or anything like that. This is not a worldly knock down
dragout over opinions. I hope everyone will hopefully see what it is I
am driving at here, which is: I don't want the spirit of compromise seep
into what we have rediscovered. And I want all to know that Jesus has
been influencing me and helping me and my kids and I am happy, grateful,
and full of confident expectation of being set free from sin.
Winning isn't the issue here. It's about what God desires. And to say
this is to encapsulate the core of dissension in the Body these two
thousand years. And that these intense discussions do take place is not
an indication of the enemy at work, rather it is God allowing everything
to be brought into the light, uncomfortable and unseemly as it may
appear. When a definite impasse is reached however, it is time to quit
and discuss other things. I am laying it to rest as of this writing. I
would be happy to discuss anything with anyone individually on email if
you feel that some things need to be still brought up, but the public
forum ends now.
I see this website as an answer to an unspoken prayer of mine that we
who had a common experience with Jesus in our lives, which was to say
the least, unique, may once again fellowship. And I am not trying to
raise hackles here but I saw it, (us), always as very special to God and
He gifted us with understanding which far and away surpassed that of the
world. This is something you either accept or reject but I do believe it
without apology. I see "US" as an unfinished work and I am hopeful
beyond all bounds that something fruitful beyond all bounds will come of
it. Every time I see a new name added to the list I am happy, as if we
we all shipwreck victims who began to find each other one by one on a
distant landfall. Or more closer to home, siblings separated in
childhood reuniting after decades.
For me to say that we had something special is not hard to do and it
was of God, not some guy. And it was He who guided us, despite huge
interference from our enemy.
What has been coming to the light about the behind the scenes about ST
is making it so much easier to shrug off any weights that he generously
saddled us with to hide his sin. I hope all, especially those who were
treated with such extreme cruelty like Maureen, are able to breathe a
whole lot easier. It goes beyond outrage. These were sisters! Unjustly
put into the street where real dangers existed, a fact well known to the
perpetrators of that crime!
And this is something that I will now say that needs to be said: if
there are some out there who are lurking and reading all of this, now is
the time for you to start making restitution to all or individually
those whom you have beaten and exploited for your own ends, and I am
referring to the leaders especially who took part in the hypocrisies
that have recently come to the light. You turned a blind eye to the
needs of the brethren to perpetuate something that was obviously hurting
many of God's people. Until you do, your prayers for forgiveness are
without foundation.
Chris Hirtler
 

__________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>

I'm running to work now.
Good stuff,
but the last pp
lays an unnecessary burden.
This stuff is decades old.
If they feel the need, then.....
I remember Wurmbrand would quite
often say that confessions in prison would
start out, "When I was a child"
Chances are these brethren have moved on
a long time ago.
And way back when we all thought we were
doing the right thing...
yada yada...

__________________________________________________________

Mike, I can't begin to tell you how sad I felt after reading your "outrage"
article....I tried to reply, but I couldn't find comforting enough words to
comfort you besides verses.  I completely understood your feelings.  It
reminded me of a type of mourning, as in a death.

I felt really puzzled as to how to help you.  I remember feeling the way
you did at one time, but I do not now have the same intensity that you felt
in your letter.  I hope, though, that I never forget it, so I can relate to
others.

The substance of what your were saying is still true - the ones who are
still in COBU need fervent constant prayer; they are truly deceived.  But
in my heart I really believe God IS aware, IS in control of and IS planning
to turn the whole thing out for His glory, I just don't know how.

And I know that some people feel that they should go there and talk to them
or talk to Stewart.  I never did, although I wish I had the confidence to
sometimes.  I've fantasized about it.  I've dreamt about it.  Some people
feel that we should talk about their deception with them.  I don't feel
that way.

I don't know what God has planned for me with respect to COBU.  But I know
that when I see any of them (I only saw one person in 14 years on the
street!) all I am inspired to say is to describe to them how precious they
are to God and how much He loves them.  I can think of no other convincing
thing to say.  When you hear it enough, it's got to do something.

The Holy Spirit brings people to the knowledge of the truth, and I think in
this case, He will prevail, I just don't know when, how or why.  And I know
that the heaviest artillery we have in this war is prayer.

Prayer will move mountains.  It leaves us feeling helpless, but I would
take any opportunity to speak to them if I saw them.  I just won't pursue
them, especially if they expect it.

Thanks again SO much for the addresses.  I will guard them; they are very
precious to me.  I intend to write as many as I can with the same message
of God's love.

You will see the fruits of your efforts; you already have good fruit.  Your
heart seems like it's in the right place.  You seem sincere - just keep
doing whatever you can - don't overdo it or it will be you and not Him.
I'll help anyway I can....solicit others to help too in any way they can.
Some of us can help through prayer.  God's goals will be accomplished!
Nancy W
_____________________________________________________________
I just read your 'outrage' piece.  Be careful.  Jesus paid for _all_
sins, including whatever Stewart did or does.  Let Him make the
judgment about Stewart's salvation.  We can look back and see a lot now
that we didn't see before when we were so close to it.  That Stewart has
been in some way an instrument of the gospel is clear.  That he has gone
astray in some manner(s) also seems clear.  Imagine yourself in his
place and all of the temptations that go with such a "leadership
position".  How well would we stand the test?  I don't say this to
excuse him, but to encourage you to see him perhaps with more sympathy
or pity than outrage.
___________________Rod Huffman_______________________________