1John Meeting 1989


STEW: You think you were set free before...wait till now...what do we do now?(pray together)...there's Bob...what da ya say Bob?
Bob: I am thankful to Jesus for..
Stew: Looks like you get yer wish today
Bob: Thank you Jesus
Stew: Which one ?..(laughing)...what's yer wish list? ..quick...
Bob: Well my wish list is first that I....make it to heaven through Jesus....
Stew: Well naw mean it's ..never mind...(laughing) Now I have some idea of where to begin...not much...but some... Tim McAndrews...where's he?
Tim: Right here
Stew: Tim ..you were the last one there huh?
Tim: Ah..yeah I believe so
Stew : You left when?
Tim : 8:00
Stew: Long time ago..8:00...last night...long time...that's a long time...12:00....the Spirit of Christ revealed a lot of the meaning of John the Baptist to me....I've only been looking for that for 15 years.... 5 or 6 this morning up to 75% of it now....but I'm sure it's not God's will that I get into such trivial matters now...We've got much more important stuff...that is ..that is trivy..trivy.. now it was only a week ago that we were here? (Yes)...that also seems like a long time...a great deal has happened...I've tried to prepare you for a state of shock....I hope you're prepared...(little laughing.."yes" then clamor) You older ones are gonna need it...younger ones?...what do you say about the younger ones?...Now I wonder how much you have heard....

It is only the Spirit of Christ that could reveal the spirit of the New Testament....The spirit of prophecy is the spirit of Jesus...vice versa remember...the spirit of the New Testament ....isn't that what we need ?(yes) what do you think we need..what da...we have..we have heard about grace...and ahh...we understand something about grace..but now what?... One way of putting it is that we're caught...you're still in prison....You are anyway...eh..still in prison...ah..caught between 3 things in a way...one is the realization of grace...is the basis...No. 2 is ah..that ah..the New Testament, all the rest of the New Testament is more and more of a mystery every time you read it..great frustration over that..third thing..is that there is this structure build up..this so-called teaching of ah..that is so ah, everyone has it, so ahh..firmly that ahh..you don't know how, you don't know what to throw out or what to keep...because you have to know, know the spirit of Jesus Christ and of the New Testament..in order to be able to judge...and yet you know that grace some how must be the basis but we can't move...one of the many binds in which we've been... there all breaking up...so you understand that ah what we need is an overview of the whole New Testament, a workable....clear...very simple..I don't know how much of this you've heard..but the buck stops here...with ahh..no figure talk at all...just straight plain the mind of the apostles...emah which is the mind of Jesus Christ....

Where were they coming from with these things which you now look at....the little bit of truth...and they've all seem to contradict each other...seems to be no hope...for everything to make perfect sense..but ah...what is it ,ah my claim about today ah....you'll understand, clearly the basis...of the New Testament and you'll know..., that's a very important word..so is mind...you will know the truth...the truth will make you free, just as He said, just as He said..all the way...and but you won't know everything....my word....you'll understand the basis...things such as "What does it mean to be born anew?"...that's a small thing...clearly understand that....you won't understand every verse of the New Testament instantly...but eh..I can't do that..neither can you, but a great many...and there'll be no more conflict....this is what Jesus Christ is doing for us now(quiet mumbling "thank you Jesus")

The Mind of the Apostles, not everything worked out ,not every last comment they made..explained.obviously that..didn't I say ah...the mind, a hundred bibles ,yeah the mind opens up a hundred bi... this must open up ten-thousand..the whole thing...and..I can't even ehh...make a list of what it will open up...

Now here's the thing...Here's the problem....for you...today....at first.....Now you know that this can't go on...whatever it's been, a rollercoaster...it's got to stop somewhere...and ehh...the buck has to stop, you've heard that..well it does...and something has to give...some impossible thing has to give..now you've gone through it , so have I...how many times? Nothing can possibly make sense no way no how....if you consider everything...if you consider outside the New Testament...consider our history and our situation and all christians, throw that in..eh..it's way beyond us..indeed it has been...but something has to give...what.eeh..in a sentence what it is is a we must ..the truth of the New Testament is radically different than we have supposed. That's a scary statement..but it is absolutely true...and you will understand why and how..... Is it possible that ehh..huh that the spirit of the New Testament ,  understanding of it, we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, possible the understanding of it has never fully appeared..that's possible...I don't know....This is an even far more interesting thing to look into than the , the living word...far more....(ST tapping a file card here) The real view...that clearly was in the apostle's mind...all of them , from end to end...which appears clearly...simply..clear...is radical.... You must get ready for a shock......it is clear, it is simple, it is everywhere and it is radical.... and...I already  testify that it works....for whatever thats worth.....It is true that there in , throughout history......there have been many faithful christians...all christians see dimly.... and ahh....some dimmer than others....and I'm speaking of real christians... There have been blind christians...throughout history...who have been very faithful to Jesus....quite blind, not totally but quite blind...who have been very faithful to Jesus....I'm trying to say it right, there's 3 of them...there's blind christians, almost blind Christians very faithful to Jesus, quote accidentally.....wasn't accidental of course....Spirit of Christ led them....small amount of understanding..whats the difference.....Last time i spoke of the Church of Bible Understanding..i was ..was amazing ah...welcome to nothing, but ah...perhaps that is indeed part of God's plan, church of bible Understanding, which is incredible..anyway...there's 3 of them , the blind christians...fairly blind, different blindness, different amounts...throughout history....that have been faithful....and ...there have been...remember....there have been blind ...maybe we should scratch the whole thing, blind ones that have not been faithful....blind will lead the blind , both will fall into a pit....maybe I ought to scratch it...but ah...you must start considering...ah how much..ahh how many christians have their been ah..that know the truth about the NewTestament and are faithful to it....that apparently is rare....really rare.... but we ah won't get into that..  you should prepare for a shock

Is it true  a while ago I was talking     sin is the fundamental issue    in all human life   ("yes"..agreement "Religion and the world has some form of it") Couldn't you argue that it's the fundamental issue in all human life , something like that   and we ought to ah remember this   in our approach here.      Sin        you know of course that sin entered in very early, almost immediately        this Wednesday night I'd just flat say  "don't  asked me I don't know what born again means, I have no idea what it means, Wednesday night... Thursday noon it was clear, learned a great deal more, a great deal more    there was no bright light   but it was the same sort of thing  just instantly, the whole thing    and no matter what I'd look at   it made perfect sense, but it's ahh  hard to swallow , in fact , it's clear to me from now on , a great many things are clear, from now on, there will be a great division among the people as it is necessary that there should be. We have come to the parting of the ways. Hopefully it's going to be a 100% of all of us on the side of Jesus Christ and none on me side because that's what the division is

We are catch between what we know must be the true basis, which is grace...an unfathomable habit of truth and error. Who can divide the truth and error? I can  and what appears to be the new mystery of the New Testament..does that ring a bell? No?(mumble yes) YES? Half way..(yeah half) You people trapped?(YEESS) What are you trapped between?(trying to figure out what's going on)(a mix of truth and error) One thing you know , Grace must be the basis(yeees)you are , you are in this habit, this collection of truth and error, you don't know which is which, and now you read the New Testament and it's one eh new mystery, every verse is a mystery upon the last. At least before  you thought you knew something(yeah)..now you know you don't...isn't that clear to you?(yeees) That is the present state. We're free of works as the basis, praise God for that(mumbling "thank you Jesus") But now what? Now heeding the New Testament, there it is , now what?Stewart goes around saying "I don't know, don't ask me" so now what? I tried to impress last week, God is making it very clear, this time around it isn't me doing it at all. So that we can know where we stand with Jesus. Wonder if God realizes the trouble He's caused?(laughing) Why didn't he just tack one more little chapter at the end of the Bible?, alright nobody is suppose to add, alright but why didn't he tack one more chapter? Paul said "I trust that you will take no view other than mine" Why didn't He , just one page?, spell it out in plain, "Ahh  now you are speaking plainly, one page is all it would have taken, One page is all it would have taken, by the way,

I was telling Gayle last night, all..eh women...a little child shall lead them, better be that, better be such that a little child, whatever it is, a little child will tell us, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven. Mind of the apostles, better also be the mind of a child. Which of course makes it more impossible, it's already impossible. But it must be that. But why didn't he tack one more page, just one page? Why did He leave us this way? At the mercy of grievious wolves, of which I am not. One thing I am not. Period and never was; was a grevious wolf. Why did He leave us at the mercy of either grevious wolves or Stewart? Apparently that's the choice. One page is all it would have taken. This is the way you look at it. Make sure you look at it this way, ands everything will work out. Do you realize , all we have to do...I was saying a month ago...The most troubling verse in the Bible ...all you have to do is go to that one and explain it and everything else falls into place. Everything else is clear. It's that one trouble maker. Well actually it's a few "No one who abides in Him sins,""No one who knows Him can possibly sin,"ecetera, there are 4 or 5 different ways, back and forth, you know what I mean?(mumble yess) Is it possible to explain that? And make sense  out of the entire New Testament? Sure it is but something has to give...first it's your brain. But fortunately , lately, there's been so much now you are numb enough(laughing) that it can be partly slipped in before you know what happened....Isn't God merciful?(YEESSS...thank you Jesus)..So where does the buck stop? Well it has to be on your level, a child's level....it also has to be something that you have power over and know all about Because werrr...what's the buck? Well the buck is something like this, one buck anyway...How do you know you're born anew? Because I have the Spirit of God. How do you know you have the Spirit of God? Because I believe. How do you know you believe? Because I have the Spirit of God, because I got born anew. How do you know you got born anew? Because I did the verse in the Bible.How do you know you did it? And you never stop...No?(yeesss..right) or do you? you can stop at "Look , get away from me(laughing)..GET AWAY...(laughing"I have faith")  I have faith... you also have sick feelings(mumbling yeah) Yeah , Thursday morning I got up in quiet dispair as usual... Today's plan was gonna be I'm gonna finally start studying  the Greek, even thinking how in the world is this suppose to be a child, half to study this passage in Greek, because of , because of what it means and eehh...what a draag(laughing) but ..let's go let's do it so..that's what i thought.

Now the buck stops , so where does the buck stop in all this, how do you know, if indeed you have the Spirit of Christ. The more he says that the more you wonder. How do you pinn anything, really pin it. Well it's got to be something that you know all about, and further more have power over. so that, so that you indeed have the testimony in yourselves. Not the wild , arrogant talk. "I KNOW I HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD! Leave me alone" not the arrogant stuff...so that you actually have the testimony within yourself. And know that you do according to the understanding of the New Testament. The buck has to stop in you. In  your human nature. In your human nature, because that's all you know. the buck has to stop there. OR go join an arrogant club. Take your pick or sit in limbo forever. Wel you're not gonna sit in limbo, That is over, there's no way, the limbo that we've had will ever exist again. Ever, any way, not a trace of it. you know what I mean and that's part of the sick feeling. And all the thoughts of the accuser. Good grief! One of my worst, has always been...da ya wanna hear it?(YEAAAAH) The Theory of Stewart, by the way we'll go into the theory of Stewart, because the theory of Stewart must be totally explained to then...totally... I don't understand my history, this is impossible , well it better not be then...aahh one of my worst was always that ehh somehow I'm John the Baptist, don't laugh, ehh, and the problem being that he is less than the least in the kindgom of Heaven, and translated he's out. Less than the least is what?( out..not included) Out...I don't mind the least....but out...Well , I don't have to worry about that one anymore, thank you Jesus(Thank you Jesus) Not only that ..I know what the truth is...I'm over the shock... and I know it works, but, you're gonna have a hard time for a little while.

the buck stops. It has to be something where you say "I pushed the button, I said the prayer." Can't be I said the prayer. but it has to be that level. Has to be in that order. So that there cannot be any doubt. That is the way it is.  obviously, it's got to explain the figures. but can't depend on them. It's the other way around. It's the other way around. Revelations of the truth reveals the figures. or at least that's ....

Now 1 John is full of, and another key points too,is full of "We know" "we know"..well sure he's magic. no , not at all.  The Spirit of Jesus Christ has revealed, that's the incredible thing, that Jesus would treat me as a friend, is unbelieveable to me. you have no idea how unbelieveable yet. He is treating me as a friend, which is unbelieveable. He has revealed, this is a fact, The spirit of the New Testament, thus the mind of the apostles. AND I CAN PROVE IT TO YOUR MINDS. And again I repeat, "Mind" is very important. I serve with my spirit and I serve with my mind. He said both in 2 different places. Spoke of prayer in the same way too. Mind is far more important than I ever thought. But that's a small, that's a later issue.

What is God doing? Well alright..I suppose He realized the trouble He caused....by not tacking one page further.  So what is He doing? what has He always done? He has always, instead of doing that, He has always picked this person or that person, to make this or that clear. for instance, Martin Luther. not only Martin Luther ...ahh he's a figure of ahhh how it became clear again, Grace was lost for well over a thousand years...that the grace must be the basis, through faith..had disappeared for over a thousand years, practically...anyone who talked in that way was put to death immediately, for a THOUSAND YEARS....did you hear that?(YEEEEEESSS) Why did God do that? don't ask me. But He did it.All history, western history, all western history aah....centers around or iiisss that fact. Almost is that fact. that faith and grace were variant, for over a thounsand years huhuhuh{ST laughing}. He's up all night fantisizing about what Stewart is doing and sleeps all day.... Yess Yes yes. anyway...Whats my point now? That why didn't God write a page...all it would have taken, one page.... That simple. look at the trouble it would have saved. When that starts to dawn upon you , just  that one small factor alone..it'll blow you away , that's all it'll take. Instead,  He decides to make it clear here and there through persons. That's how He has always worked. Sure there's been alot of phoney ones. don't forget there's also the real ones.

Yes, friends, we have come to the parting of the ways and I do mean WAYS, Remember that! We will hear of one awful thing, horrible , ludicrous. And we will hear really good news...Bob..you'll hear really good news. But we will understand and never be the same again. this situation will never exist again. This situation will never exist again. I can't over do that. Unless I've lost my mind. They sent me a letter..."Stewart we're praying for you, you must be under incredible pressure" from the eehh...who wrote that?(mumbling..about 6 of us) who wrote that? Where's Blake ? Whyd'ya do it?The Real reason

BLAKE: ahma eh I was praying for ya and I eha ah I wasn't there at the Wednesday meeting..but a bit drageed out by the brothers saying that you were under, you were troubled about like you were speaking of it likeat the brothers..
STEWART:(in a above it all "that's nothing tone)  normal quiet dispair, no trouble..but you were too late, I mean this thing ahh, this thing they handed me at about 2:00 and it..it's too late(laughing)you were wasting your time(laughing)..Now you gotta time these things better..(laughing) ya know..immediately or forget it

BLAKE: We had been praying for ya

STEWART: Well, well thank you Jesus for that....Yeah we will understand, and this will never exist again. It can't. That is incredible, this ahh...this ahh.. living word...the most amazing thing that ever happened to me , but that is nothing compared to this, nothing. That's literally a small part , physically and have you thought that something like this can't go on forever like this(yess yeah)... What is God up to? Guarenteed it isn't me , I quit long time ago, I told ya, over and over and over didn't I?(Yup yeah) So forget it I walked away. Not abandoning you , but ahh, now ehh...you'll understand something has to give. how many of you have thought of the scripture lately "Hope deferred makes the heart sick."

PAUL: Last night...brother ..brother said it to me

Stewart : Nobody knows what's going on..whose minding the store?(mumbling...Jesus?) Guarenteed, it's not me. Guarenteed not me. So in understanding we're all back where we started. We are all back where we started. Where we were. constant battered by everything, some of you wondering how long this can go on...They heard a voice in hebrew so awful that they entreated, that that "No more, that's enough don't say anymore." So aahh... I've become ehh, like che  but very motivated. At least you are numb enough that I can go to the worst right away..that's what i plan to do...

How bout the bad news first(YEEESSS) the bad .well let's see, bad isn't really the word..ludicrous and ridiculous and and ahh, yeah i gues it's pretty bad, well not really, not really , it's just ahh...cannot handle it....at first... but you will. the New Testament and our history and the whole present christian world relationship. What is the explaination of  all this , all the christians? how does that make sense? it does. the New Testament and our history and the present christian world relationship, which is the one that matters in our case.  Any ..David served the council of god in his generation...any any ahh..Thing that God does at any time with any person as with regard to that situation, it's none of your business , the rest... so the present..situation, which ahh..you understand something about. It would make more sense to a small child than mto a theologian. That actually is true. And don't hold your breath to hear it on family radio ..which opens up quite a subject in itself...One thing is certain....It seems as though God is starting our church all over again, if not far far beyond that. Now what ah could this be all about,what could this be all about? It's time for us to open our bibles. First John(pages turning)

The beautiful trouble maker. YOU HEARD IT RIGHT HERE FOLKS!!...{you heard it right here..folks{whispering} my mym ym my...Run around the house all the time, "Incredible, Ridiculous, Impossible." right ? all the time all day..3 days...Imposs, Ridiculous, Nooo Way(laughing)Amazing, Can't be, Absolutely is. Ridicualous, can't be. Gayle has no idea what I'm talking about(laughing). what do you all think about Gayle?(loyal to Jesus, trusting sister, great example)Although.....well ya know..a little child shall lead them, why ahh ,{talking to Gayle} you don't need all that. sure you don't need all that...aahh it's around somewhere.

So we all have 1st John ay?(yyes) what will we look at in 1st John? We'll look at the trouble makers...Ahh Where are they Gayle? the main one chapter 3 ehh eheh the end of chapter 2, that's where the trouble starts, well it starts before that even, but let us look at , let us look at 2:29 , you all ready?(yess). Let's read it.

If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who does right is born of Him.

Well Alright... alright, let's read it again

If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who does right is born of Him.

alright, if  you know that he's righteous,, oh i think I do, i guess that's what that means....You may be sure that everyone who does right is born of Him. alright, the good guys are born of God. I mean that's not contradictory of anything ahh normal..right? alright now chapter 3... "See what Love the Father has given us, and so we are. everyone believes Jesus is the Christ is a child of God."  "We are God's Children now, " and then 4 then he throws it all away from then on.  Let's read chapter 3 verses 4-10. you ready? (yesss)let's read

Everyone who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness, sin is lawlessness. you know that He appeared to take away sins and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins, no one who sins has either seen Him or Known Him. Little Children,  let no one decieve you, he who does right is righteous as He is righteous.  He who commits sin is of the devil. for the devil has sinned from the beginning.  the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works  of the devil. No one bron of God commits sin, for God's nature abides in Him. And he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

He cannot sin because he is born of God.

By this it may be seen, who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil. Whoever does not do right , is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.

well now, it is impossible, can you say  how that is not a direct contradiction to what he just said?

THIS IS TAPE 1 SIDE 1  (45 MINUTES)
 

How close do you think you're coming, any kind of theories? to make some kind of sense, because the second passage is trying to say you're not children of God, if you ever sinned, and yet the whole book opened up with "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us, started with that. Then went to we are God's children, then went to we ain't.  Apparently it has to be in the Greek. there are three areas., Best I can do, and it is , the best i can do, I repeat , the best I can do, is that there are 3 areas. where possibly there's some theory that can be constructed. the problem, the problem, may lie in the term "WE" or " No one born of God" Well who is this "one." Is it Stewart? Or is it a not born of the flesh , nor of the will of man, but of God? A spiritual being. That's the "No one" or the "one " that's the problem. Now...who'se he talking about? How do we know?"No one born of God...Stewart? or some new creation? First Mystery  right there. Second mystery. Sin. Thought I knew what Sin means. You do notice that nowhere in any of  1st John and no where in the bible does it say "If anyone commits A sin, he is of the devil." That construction does not appear., that construction, that's all. Perhaps, perhaps, sin somehow there's something in..." A sin " maybe be here or there, then you get into "commits." Maybe it just somehow means...'He's not really into it, He's not living in it, It's not a constant thing. or make sure it is. But in that area maybe you could do something. Or in the area of the word sin, or in the area of "who are we talking about." Who is this "one" ? For instance , for instance, You're all thinking, you have a theory? What..what's the theory that would come to mind? Do you have one? that ahh seems to make sense? I wanna hear the one of you that testifies that you never never sin.(sighing in disbelief) Never Never or Itsy, bitsy, itsy bitsy or a lot..apparently and this construction makes no difference. cuz I can't find a construction "commits A sin" anywhere.  Well there's "overtaken in a trespass" still that's , that's not the very same thing. "commits A sin"{Gayle muttering something to ST} Well ..no it is not!.."Committing sin." I can easily see a barn door to work with between "commits sin" and "commits A sin" Now whether you can or can't...I can...That's a barn door! But is it the right one? How do I know? I can put words together too as well as all these people. God gave me more burden or enough brains, which ever it is , of common sense and honesty to never do that...and I haven't , by the grace of God.

So we're here today in our mess. They're  there in their mess! So on we go. Now ahh does anything appear to you? Anyone of those 3 and that's what it will be, one of those 3 areas. that you can put together. Some sort of anything, never mind reality, never mind ahh anything, just can ya, any wording to put together to actually face each issue here and all the rest of the bible. how can you put it together. Honestly and make sense of it. And let me tell ya the secret, there is indeed the way. But, what do you have, do you have any theories? Let's hear it{st pounds table} Real quick..got anything worked out?{pounding table} you try...Anybody home?( YEEESS) You try to work out a theory.  Nobody tried? Nobody ever read it? Nobody ever tried to work out a theory? Charles Ramierez never did. Charles Ramierez never tried. Charles Ramierez doesn't have a brain.(laughing)Charles Ramierez did try. He's just quiet. He didn't try.

CHARLES: I read a verse
STEW: AHA(laughing)
CHARLES: it's in a
STEW: I  try not to use my brain, right? Let's Hear it!
CHARLES: It's in Romans 5 and it says ah
STEW: hmmm...we're ready. I hope the rest of you are ready..how's Annette?
Brother: Still playing her wild games
STEW: Alright .Alright{fake laugher} Hah Hah Hah Stick around!(laughing) Go ahead...
CHARLES: It says ah 5:13 " sin indeed was in the world Before the law was given, but sin was not counted where there is no law.
STEW: ok
CHARLES: the last part
STEW: Fortunately , I don't know all the favorite theories of all your favorite local christians. I know they have 'em. And I never studied them. I know they're out there. Now what about that verse. What are you gonna do with it? What's yer idea {tapping table}
CHARLES: I just thought when Jesus came, there was grace as opposed to works of the law.
STEW: Yes?
CHARLES: And somehow since there is no law, somehow that does something to sin(laughing) I don't know what(laughing)
STEW: Okay but remember last week, already last week, it was Chrystal clear. The lord was pleased for His righteousness sake to magnify His law, and from now on He talks about His law . Yes... Jesus has His law, that we obey. So it's that, it's that ahh, It's changed. We obey Jesus.  We don't obey the old law. We're not under that. Obey Jesus and His law.So how does that really change anything? And if we ever break His law, we're sinners. His law is quite different of course, still , His commandment. The law of Liberty..ecetera...So there's not much hope there. Who else has ahh somewhere to go? Who else has somewhere to go? Come Come!, Gayle has 5 written out.

Brother: how bout John 1:13?
STEW: All laughable , of course
Brother: How bout John1:13?
STEW: John 1:13 what about it?
Brother: We're not born of the will of the flesh, nor of the...
STEW: By the way, did you ever do that, Gayle? ...What about just flat out say " This means the new being? doesn't mean Stewart. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Now why don't we just settle on that?It means the new creation.(clamor..."That's what I thought it meant") Uh Oh! What is the new creation?Well it means the new child of God. Not born of blood , nor of the will of man, nor of the will of the flesh , but of God.And He never sins. It is no longer I that do it. It's not counted anymore. Now what's wrong with that? Besides it looks like cheating. you know it looks too easy. What's wrong with it? Anything? maybe nothing...

Brother: verse 9 says " for God's nature abides in him.
STEW: That's right..what about it? God's nature does abide in that child. That child of God.
CHUCK: That's what God looks at, looks at the new...
STEW: Now don't laugh , people{pounding table} Gayle didn't even write that one out. That is so obvious. But if we go that route we will find a problem. What is the problem?It leads to the Nicolatians. Seems to directly lead to the Nicolatians. But something even more meaty. What? Well you may not notice, but if that is the case, if that were the case, this entire passage, you might as well rip it out, it's saying absolutely nothing. Well no kidding. God is God, no kidding. No kidding. God's child cannot sin because he's perfect. Because he's not .....well , of course...so what's he saying? what's the point of it? there is no point if you follow it through. Besides, Stewart said that it ain't it.

GAYLE: I remember looking up a while ago, all the children of God verses and there's no ...nothing about this perfect child, I mean,  this images...I always had this perfect little child in us. the children verses in the New Testament aren't that way.

STEW: You people have always had these funny ideas..haven't ya?(yyeesss)Who have you been listening to? huh? You should have been more careful. Alright  nuff said..right Gayle?

GAYLE: I remember , remember that chart...
STEW: that's an idiot statement, of course, but ..go ahead..
GAYLE: with the sheep on the one side and the child on the rest and when I was making that up, I remember going through all the child verses, the children get punished, chastized, disciplined...eh...alot of it ..children verses in the New Testament...there isn't this ...here is this perfect little child in you...there's nothing like that in the whole New Testament...1st John is the closest..even so it doesn't say that. And all the rest of the letters don't sound that at all ..huh ha...The children share in flesh and blood.

STEW: Now are you aware that the language "Whoever sins" and 'Whoever commits sin" cover the whole ball of wax? they really cover everything. Maybe you don't realize how that does cover everything except possibly if there was something about "commits A sin" but there isn't.  So what do we do now? Let's come up with ideas , people. Do we have any? of course we're ashamed of our ideas aren't we?(yeaah) And we don't want Stewart to laugh at us..heh..heh..heeh..

DALE: Well one idea I had was that ahh, I thought of how, we are the new creation, and how God trains us and that this passage here is talking about more, how because we do have God's nature in us. We don't want to continue in sin.
STEW: Whao whao whao..don't want to or don't?
brother: don't
STEW: Fudge , fudge, fudge , fudge....
DALE: Eventually we don't(clamor..laughing)
STEW: Eventually? Alright eventually ...Here we go...go ahead...now
DALE: Its a training..it's a pruning, and a training, God ...just like a little child growing up, he's pruned under   discipline after a while he stops doing it.
STEW: PAAAA-REEEEECH IT! try a little "I got the spirit" Annette does enough of that why don't you learn it. Preach it!
DALE: That was my idea that ahh(Laughing)
STEW: Maybe the apostles are just nuts. maybe that's it. We ahh don't want to try that one right?(no..no way)What are the other ones? What were the desperate ones?{Talking to Gayle} Remember? We had 3 or 4 in a separate catagory called "Desparation."

GAYLE : My , my last desperate one is that we aren't born of God until we die.

STEW:  That Yeah, that's right, because the whole thingabout born of God. St. Francis was right. It is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Member that?(yeaahhh) Hey look, something's gotta go..now don't be picky

GAYLE: Because if you cannot sin because you are born of God. I cannot see any human being not sinning period, unable...

STEW: Well, there is the matter, there is the matter of scripture that "surely there is not one righteous man on earth, who does good and never sins(oohh  yeah) Alright ahh  how bout desperation No. 2?

GAYLE: How I wonder too , how maybe "born of God isn't us at all. It's Jesus who's bron of God{gayle giggles}

STEW:  NOW! Hey! come on ...get different , people! you better get different. It is Jesus that is born in us.It's not me at all. Christ is formed within me.{hitting table} See? Thats sounds pretty good. Let's try desperation No. 3

GAYLE: One of the early ones was that"commits sin" means live in it, chooses it, practices it.

STEW; right , that's the standard one. That ahh, that while, by the way, We didn't say that. That's one of the standard "maybes" ..."commits" means " continues in it" it is a continuing sense. No one bron of God continues in sin., that keeps it up, what's wrong with that , people?(mumbling , questioning) Yeah , but they don't keep it up...you don't...It's not in your heart anymore. your heart has been washed clean...go ahead, Gayle

GAYLE: that's right
STEW: Gayle?
GAYLE: It's not in my heart, it's in my members
STEW: Wait..Uh oh!...can't say that cuz it sounds too close to old Nicolas, that was his name, can't say that{gayle giggles} Put it some other way.
GAYLE: Well paul said it's no longer I that do it
STEW: Hey
GAYLE: It's sin in my members
STEW: It's a fact
GAYLE : And I know the basis...
STEW: right or wrong Chuckie?
CHUCK : yeah
STEW: Which one are you going with, this or do you like the last one too.(laughing)
CHUCK: No , I'm stuck on the old way, the first way, but ahh
STEW: Which ones?..that...Let's hear it, Chuckie{ST snapping his fingers}
CHUCK: the one where we're born of God and we are the new creation
STEW: That's ahhh
CHUCK: and that's what God looks at
STEW: That is it! and you're with Nicolas and idiocy..okay(Laughter) I say idiocy because  the whole thing is moot. Absolutely meaningless then. He's not saying anything. Alright , maybe that's it, look. What's the next desperation? what was the..?
GAYLE: that continues in sin doesn't seem to make sense..what's he ..cannot sin..
STEW: Gayle , eeh..that's maybe. Look at another translation{ ST then in a comical high voice}..I got away with it(laughing)..What was the next desperation? ..we had 3 or 4 of them last night. what was the next one? Oh ..Martin Luther threw out the book of James and John is at the tail end too, the 1st John...He was an old fella at the time...And there have been suggestions that he was loosing it(laughing) Irrefutable authorities have considered this and ...we all make many mistakes, ya know, in what ya say , ya know, and he was an old fella.
PAUL: (paul joking) We all make many mistakes comes from James. Do we have to throw it out?
STEW: No, maybe you throw out John instead. First John, anyway. He was a younger fella there in aah 1st John, in John, gospel. you don't like that one?(nooo) Won't fly huh?(noo) Alright. What have we left? How bout we try some standard ones then....hey could someone put him in a box back there...you know he's brilliant...ya know, up! the head went down, ahh just as well, let's go..
GAYLE: I remember the Dale theory, by the way, that one crossed my mind but then I thought of how Cephas, after something like 14 years after Pentacost, stood condemned, so we gotta be more, ya know
STEW: was that really 14 years?
GAYLE: Well 3 years or 14 years or something. Remember in Galatians(yeah, that's right) some time(a brother "17 years") It doesn't directly say the time , but after 3 years Paul went there and then 14 years later , he went thereand when Cephas came to Antioch, he stood condemned. so I, it sounds like he must have sinned. But he must not be born again of God.
STEW: in all fairness now....it doesn't say he sinned. now ahhh...We gotta be fair too..I mean ahh...an agent of sin is what he was indicatiing....He didn't say he sinned right?...If I have become an agent of sin...Let's hear it people!

Dear Reader, this is me , Mike M.: Remember this part. This small part ruins ST whole premise. Nobody brings it up again in this study. There are many other mistakes he has made before this point but this is a big one..and note that he moves on quickly. This is huge.

Brother: the only thing i can think of like and even with ahhh Cephas, cuz when he did maybe he wasn't coming from love when he , I think, He went, when he did, went and ate, whatever, but if we're into loving one another we  not, we're not gonna be into sin.
STEW: (mocking) Hey that's it now, go ahead, Here we go, well come on...
Brother: Yeah cuz..if we're not following Jesus' commandment, we're not ehhh..... we're not going to but ...I can't think of anything else...But(laughing)
STEW: Wait! Wait!
Brother: the next passage starts off with loving one another
STEW: that's right
Brother: and Ahh
STEW: And what covers a multitude?...what..wh?
Sister: love(laughter)
Andrew: He who loves is born of God
Brother: what's that verse, against such there is no law?(Galatians)
GAYLE: But if you slip once does that mean you were never born of God?
Brother; then you weren't into being, you weren't following Jesus commandment.
STEW: Have all of you tried to make sense of all this?(yeah yess) How many have not? And how many have? Well that accounts for about 3 quarters of everyone. Have not and have..okay. Where are we then? So where are we?
Brother: We know that we don't know
Another Brother: I think of a verse in the bible that says " God is testing man to show he is but beast, again, we were born of a new nature. Whatever is born of God overcomes the world,and He who is in you is greater than he who s in the world. it is our own nature, which is beast, we have to accept it.
STEW: and therefore?(LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG  SILENCE)
ANDREW: Well what I think is , the first part...
STEW: So you're one of the ones that never tested it
ANDREW: I was reading it
STEW: WEll Goood! Sorta fresh wineskin here(laughing) Let's have a drink.
ANDREW: It says"See what Love the Father has given us," I'm thinking that the love that the Father has given us is Jesus and that if we believe in Jesus, we're automatically covered and therefore sin isn't recognized by God. So we're automatically born of God by just believing in Jesus. And all of these um, about Jesus coming to destroy the works of the devil...that everyone, everyone does sin is automatically covered, and is automatically born of God
STEW: This does not apply to people who believe in God then?(correcting himself) Believe in Jesus?
ANDREW: Yeah, if you believe in Jesus...
STEW: Then this doesn't apply to you, well wait a minute..we gotta a new one, that, may, wait a minute...it does not apply to those who believe. they're excused. Hey! Wait a minute! Here comes Nicolas again. " It does not apply to me huh?"  you sure of that?
ANDREW: Well , we belong to Jesus, you know, we do want to please Him.
STEW: Yeah , that's right , we belong to Jesus, so if I shoot somebody, i didn't  really do it? Because i believe right?(laughter)
ANDREW: No, we belong to Je.., we listen to Jesus...
STEW: Now we are listening to Jesus...fudge , fudge...I notice 3 different theories rolled into one, you don't need 3, you only need one, ya know, why  bother? So, in other words, He who is bron of God won't do it anyway.
ANDREW: umm , well , if he does...
STEW: {to everyone about Andrew} He's always trying to catch up with everyone else , isn't he? If we have any more ideas...Let us say them now. there is the little matter of the entire rest of the New Testament that you've hardly even considered in anyway. However, Let's just go with this. Any ideas? Let's hear it and let me know when you are fully done.
Brother: One observation that i had was that it says ' Beloved, we are God's children now, in verse 2, and then in verse 3 it says" Everyone who thus hopes in Him purifies himself as He is pure. so somehow , hoping in Jesus that yer somehow...we're still God's children now and we still sin so there ahh, because we're  becoming more pure, God is purifying us and ahh, I think it has to do with ahh somehow Because God's nature abides in us. He removes all sin from us and that's how we abide in Him
STEW: {ST audibly to himself} This is incredible is all I can say...I didn't hear a word you were saying....but this is incredible.
the mood of the meeting now got somber, quiet, worn out. Stew slowed down in tones. there is a long silence.

STEW: Let me know when yer ready to hear the real winner(We're ready) from the Spirit of Truth. I could go through the other ones in 1st John but that's enough. The problem , I think, appears as clearly as its ever going to.  might as well go ahead now{tone of resignation}Seems to be God's will to me, just go ahead and understand the real truth about it.
now when you read this passage chapter 3 verses 4-10. the surface message, when you look at it surfacely, it seems to be saying, that ahh...if a human being, any human being, me or you, anyone, if he ever sins , any sin,  if he commits sin, or if he sins, that covers the whole thing. Any human beings ever sin, he is not one of God's children, and that is proof that he is not one of God's children. the fact that he sinned. Because God's children cannot sin, if he did. and then he demonstrates that he is not one of God's children. Do we all agree that this seems to be the surface truth(yeeess)And we're already for the shock? Well the shock is that the surface message there...is true.

And it's even worse than that. If anyone ever sins, he is not a christian at all! that sound suprising?( a weak and weighed down "yeess")It's true.  Chuckie...sorry to have to tell you this..but it's true. And from that point the whole New Testament makes sense, so does everything else. If you can once accept that one fact...well...alright then don't accept it. but the more you work with it, the more you'll find that it has to be true. how many of you really worked with that one? That it's just at true? and in fact worse than this? How many of you have worked with this? tried it, Gayle?
GAYLE: The closest is in that it's not me anymore ..it's not on my heart
STEW: No fudge..buck ends..Buck stops... None of you seriously considered it? (weighed.."No") It's absolutlely true. Let's hear you reactions , people!
CHUCK:Sounds kinda scary
STEW: Yes it is
PAUL: (mumbling) If I'm not born again, then what am I?
Jeff Benninger is heard near the tape recorder saying "Doesn't seem right."
Brother: Almost sounds like works
JEFF B: Yup
Brother ; Doesn't explain myself because I think I am a sinner
STEW: {in an impatient, irritated but calm voice} It explains you perfectly.....Anyone ever sins..by so doing he has proven, this certain, just as it says, you have proven that you do not know God and that you never did know know Him. you never knew Him.you don't know Him now, by so doing, never knew Him. Never seen Him, and aah you don't abide in Him. Just as He said. Listen,,,won't a little child tell you  to go to Heaven, you have to be very very good.(weak.."Yeah) {in a grave tone} Let's hear your reaction, people.  Gayle?
GAYLE: Well, i think I need to understand what sin means{{gayle giggle}} (Yeess) I know that, that when  you were saying that "let's hear the one who testifies that he never sins..that I know, i was thinkin,...that sounds awful to say that , but I wonder if there is something to that, but what, but I knew I couldn't handle it so I moved on{{gayle nervous giggle}
STEW: If you don't testify" I never never sinned", you're  straight on yer way to Hell. that is true. haven't you heard people claiming this?(weak "yess")
PAUL: A long time ago, bout 7 or 8 years ago, I remember this woman saying ' well, I've been born of God and i never sin.' and i say ' yeah, sure.'{{sounds like ST is opening a can of soda}}}
CHUCK: But He who says He does not sin is a liar.
STEW: Say again
CHUCK: It says He who says he does not sin is a liar
STEW: that's wrong...Read it again...
Brother; have not sinned
STEW: {{demanding}}} Read it again...Let's not change it.
CHUCK: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
STEW: Have no sin, that's correct. Now the plain truth is .....people , if you're listening, the very obvious truth, very very clear. i have sin in my members. And I have sinned. But I can and must lead a totally sinless life. Totally. Sinless. I can amd must. or do you suppose that...Jesus , twice  in John, he said to the woman 'go and do not sin again,' and He said ' see , you are well, sin no more or else.' Was He telling them to do something impossible? Also in john , a great many things, one of them. Just because I always pushed, and you were stupid enough to listen. That he who commits sin...and that whole passage in John. Just because I pushed " that means , he who is into it, and keeps it up and is really into it and all" and you say ' oh yeah, well sure and run away, just because yer that stupid, it's there too. He who commits sin is of the devil. so he wasn't an old fella. there goes that theory. Well..let's hear your reaction,  people!Let me tell ya there's only one kind, the key to understanding the whole thing. there's only one kind of man that will never never sin. there's only one kind and that's a dead man. does that ring a bell? (yeah yess).

PAUL: consider yourselves Dead to sin and alive to God.
STEW: well how bout flatter...Romans 6:7 " For he who has died is free from the la, from sin." He who has died is free from sin. And he applies that to us. And that that must be our state. How many times have we said "He gave power to become the impossible thing?" how many times have you read that? Why , why do you make Jesus Christ out to be such a lousy savior. didn't you ever hear of rising with Him NOW! to the newness of life? Now! don't worry , it's very clear and the impossible thing that's built into you, that's what's all wrong. Just one of the many , many marvels. I am, i am confident that many of the brothers have been prepared by God for some time, for this very thing. I spent 25 years. I wasn't a christian at all. Not at all. Zero. I was nothing but a sheep. For 25 years, nothing but a sheep. it was getting to be a drag. You must come to understand what the new birth means. you don't understand it at all. It's very clear and the New Testament makes sense. Everything I look at. The apostle were assuming. It was , it was understood everywhere, christians...there's no such thing as a christian who sins. there is no such thing. the subject is zero in the New Testament. they invented the term "lapsed" quickly. there is no such a thing as a "Lapsed Christian" either. There are only 2 things

This is the end of Tape 1 side 2.  Up to this point you have heard 90 minutes of the 305 minutes.


STEW: just because you has 2000 years and 25 years of someone telling you" well, yer born again." Here's the description, part of the description, one who has been born of God. Let's hear  your reactions, people! how's yer shock?(mumbling , subdued) you gotta remember now, I'm new to this being a christian. I'm not sure how long, I 've been a christian. But I know that I am and I can prove it.

STEW: I'm sure that many of you, I don't know, many, some, some or many,I'm sure many of you, some, i don't know, whatever, but yer Christians.  Excuse me Stew, could you repeat that? I'm sure that many of you, I don't know, many, some, some or many,I'm sure many of you, some, i don't know, whatever, but yer Christians. Thanks, that's clear... but I never was. Is that so impossble? Maybe you've decided that I'm not fooling. Maybe you've decided that I really mean it. you have proceeded that far or not?( weak "yess") you're sure?(bigger Yess, but still weak) {{ST speaking about himself  mockingly, playing the part of the average brother or sister) He's tricky with words, he's gonna pull this out somehow. He's gonna....Is he saying what I think he's saying?(yeaah) Chuckie.."Yeeeaaah"" Let's hear it
CHUCK : That sounds pretty far fetched
STEW: Listen, i tried to prepare you for Ludicrous and horrifying.
CHUCK: Sounds really far , sounds really far out, ya know , not to be a christian for 25 years, but ahh reading the bible, ya know, helping others.
STEW: Oh, just ah, me? well this is trivial..but..
CHUCK: I mean every...myself too
STEW: Listen, yer surprised  thatI was never a christian?
CHUCK: Yeah, myself too, that's , ya know
STEW: (mocking)"Helping others" We'll get into the theory of Stewart later. where do you start? Let's hear some ahh..Let's hear some opinions(grinning) people!
PAUL: Ahh I started wondering,...About ten years ago, when i first prayed to Jesus with Brothers and Sisters that day.And I know that inside, I felt a huge change, a big change in my life and  ahh did aask God for His Holy Spirit and ah..always thought, I'd  been born again from that point and now , I'm like, ya know, there have been alot of times over those ten years that i have rebelled against Him. and done alot of wrong things against Him.
STEW: you , you were not born again. you have deceived yourself. As it is written "little children, let no one deceive you."you have deceived yourself or did some character deceive you?
PAUL: thats what i'm trying to put my things together
STEW: Whatever , Whatever.Understand that you were not born again. If you testify that you sinned, forget it. You are testifying against yourself. By the words and the mind of the the apostles, you were not. you get your wish , Bob. that's what you said, a while ago, you said, "I hope, you said' that I(meaning ST) start over Jan 1 or something
BOB: I said in my past I sinned greatly against Jesus.
STEW: that, well.. you say you sinned, as i said I sinned, forget it. Right there, forget it. It was all false. at least at the general sense. May not be deciet , conscious deceit, but it was all false. it was all wrong. that's what it's saying, that's what I'm testifying is true. so everyone is trying to figure it out?(weak "Yees)

Sister: I was wondering how does God impart His gifts to individuals. the gifts of the Holy Spirit like tongues or prophecy.
STEW:He does it by means of kindness to the ungrateful. He does whatever he pleases. Doesn't He have the right to do whatever He wants?(yeah" from one brother)So when you ask your general question "How does He impart gifts" ...however He feels like it.didn't he directly say that about gifts? Don't I have the right to give whatever i want? what's yer complaint?
Sister; well just that...
STEW: I'm not saying yer complaining, that's what HE said. Yer question ...seee  aahh...Yer really asking something else. what is it yer asking?
Sister; Well ahh
STEW: How does He impart gifts? however He feels like it.
Sister: If we weren't christians, like if we weren't christians, I, there's evidence of the Spirit being made manifest( a brother 'yeah')
STEW: Says who?
Sister; says..xxxxxxxxxx(sister says something here)
STEW: prove it
Sister: Ican't prove it, i know...
STEW: NEXT!

Anyone else wanna come up with I just know I had this feeling? What scripture tells you about " I know I had this feeeling.?"(weak, 'none") You got had! huh?(mumbling) let's hear it. you will understandit clearly. Something that will help you a great deal. you consider the scripture. and other ones like that " we are being changed from one degree of glory to another. and you gotta consider the generalities., First cuz I don't have it perfectly worked out. it is generally clear. you gotta consider general things. the process, the sheep, disciple, abide, saints, friend, friend of Jesus. And understand that his elect began their physcial life as sheep., very clear. And at some point in their physical lives and at some period., it became manifest, that they became one of Jesus' disciples. It's in that area. Sheep are not christians. it was at antioch  that the disciples were first called Christians. and indeed St. Francis' prayer is true.

John 12;24 is the picture of the new birth. As all of Romans shows. Servant , by the way, disciple. If anyone follows me, following Jesus, and serving Him is the beginning of Christian life. Praise God, that's much , much ahh, much better for ahh all of us. Perhaps, you don't understand, you haven't proceeded. that is ahh wonderful, There is no such thing as a christian life until you are good and nailed on the cross and are dead. No such thing.
 

John 12;24 is the picture of the new birth. As all of Romans shows. Servant , by the way, disciple. If anyone follows
me, following Jesus, and serving Him is the beginning of Christian life. Praise God, that's much , much ahh, much
better for ahh all of us. Perhaps, you don't understand, you haven't proceeded. that is ahh wonderful, There is no
such thing as a christian life until you are good and nailed on the cross and dead. No such thing. Provided that you
suffer with Him that you may also be glorified with Him also. Until the picture of John 12:24 is fulfilled you , know
and understand that you are not a Christian, le let alone Born anew. Not even a Christian, at all! And you will
understand clearly that this is everywhere in the New Testament. You will understand it clearly. Understand what
I'm saying?(yeah yes..weakly). You are going to see this clearly, everywhere. Dead men don't sin. And you know
sure enough there's a great deal in Romans about us being dead. that you do know(yeah)..Maybe there's something
to this. Amazing how 25 years..I groped and other things too.Alot of these things..."are you surrendered?" And the
infinite gains over surrendering, there over. You are or you ain't! You're in or you're out! And it will be very clear.
And there is no way for anyone to play games. "I think I am", "I feel I am". It doesn't exist down the line. you
haven't followed it through yet. The New Testament just sounds different than our outfit, as I have properly called
it, "our outfit."

Another strange fact, you will , you will come to clearly see everywhere, that aah...  How many of you testify that
you are not surrendered to Jesus right now? Who's that? ahh eh Who? Who there? that um..whose that arm? Okay
Charles and who? Yolanda?ahh anyhow Charles and Yolanda, you absolutely are my brother and sister. You are not
a christian, you absolutely are my brother and christian eehh brother and sister.But you're not a christian. If it's
true what you testified. You must understand that the early church, once again, sounds ludicrous, but was full of
Christians and Non-christians. Many of the Non-Christians were were spoken of very hopefully. But let's not fudge
the fact. That they still weren't christians. You follow the picture I'm saying right now?(yes..weak). I mean , do you
follow what I'm saying?(yes, yeah no). You will see this. Some of the characters that he called brothers, well there
brothers, they are. but they're not Christians. But he talked hopefully, but in some cases hopelessly about them,
apparently. Isn't true that every sheep, when you see a human walk by, you don't know, ...is this one of the elect?
you don't know. It really is unfamiliar isn't it?(yeah). Feels really strange(yes)Yeah that's true. ahh I suppose to
you.  What is that..I can instantly, totally...it's true, I can and do...You have a hard time changing huh? Changing
your mind, changing your views. Habits are important to you. They are meaningless to me. You're too old huh? You
get habits. Truth is everything to you. If you can prove something to me , that's it. You don't love that? There's
nothing to fear. you fear...that is ridiculous. there's nothing to fear. But I'll tell ya, you say you've heard some
people say "I never sinned"...I wonder if that is the one of the worst possible things. Going around saying I never
sinned, in a wrong spirit, and of course it isn't true. And by the way, just in passing, I'm not doing my notes, I got a
box full of em. go through them all orderly.

It was indeed Stewart that was born anew, recently. It was Stewart. Not, not, definitely not ..some other being. It
was Stewart that was born anew. do you understand that Statement?(one yes and 7 no's). Well Gayle , you sold that
for a while didn't you...go ahead..(pounding table) you sell it to everyone(pounding table){Gayle: "well um"} Gayle
also can flip instantly huh?...

GAYLE: I don't understand all this yet but I, I have, I have been thinking
STEW: May I testify..there is one human being that I know almost or equally as well as I know myself, and ahh..I
testify that she has allways been a real christian.{Gayle giggles in disbelief and is flattered) Next! Go ahead
Gayle{pounding the table}
GAYLE: giggling}}} Well that's good to hear, um...
STEW: I never was... Go Gayle {pounding Table}
GAYLE: Well I can explain this one thing, He said "it is indeed Stewart that is born anew, not just some perfect
child put within us, separate , not part of us..um
STEW: And the child goes to Heaven and I go to Hell,
GAYLE: Yeah
STEW: And I get thrown out. No way.
GAYLE: Remember back, was it Jan 1 or somethin, I asked that question, well if the old nature is going to hell, well
that's all I was before I got saved
STEW: Wait a minute, as I vaguely remember, weren't you plantively asking that more or less in my direction
GAYLE: I gave you a note
STEW: Yeah.. you were sort of asking me such a question AAH!  What did I do?
GAYLE: You said "Of Course it is" and I went errrrannh{Gayle giggle}
STEW: I did?
GAYLE: Yeah{giggle} And I cringed and I thought wait a minute , so why do you say me
STEW: Then I was bluffing
GAYLE: Yeah you were
STEW: I was lying then
GAYLE: my thinking was always then, that it's this perfect disembodied child...why didn't he just put it in a stone,
why did He bother with me, I'm going to Hell anyway, you know, if I'm all I was and its, I am what I was, I mean I
know He's changed me, and it's just this perf, righte cha, the perfect child of God just stuck in you, and that's going
to Heaven and the rest of this...what's saved? There's there's I knew there was something wrong with that, plus
..we're made alive...the perfect child wasn't dead.
STEW: You were made alive. Stewart made alive, after January 1st obviously. Have to get into the theory of
Stewart. Part of my problem was, which is much better in your case, part of my problem was that I continued in sin
for 25 years, but it was low level sin hah. now it's written that the sins of some men etc, etc, And  by the way, that's
followed almost instantly by "Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands." Which is quite a subject.

What was going on? Back in that church? It's very clear. But you must first....You must first except that he meant
what he said. It's rough. Rough. it only takes me about a second. You people , it's rough, it's rough. Let's hear it
people, low-level sin , see you don't notice it. as well. As with the conspicious. Same thing though. In both casees the
old self is not dead. That's all, that's all that makes the difference. dead or not dead. Goodness ahh Goodness 25
years, {mocking} "Helping people" Chuckie! "Helping people" Yes , when we get into the 3 main things about
Stewart. Now they are not that I am handsome ahh..what are they? A Nice person, those aren't the main things,
Chuck...{mocking} "Nice person"..."Helping people"...okay well... wonder what we ought to get into that would be
most helpful to your _____________ at the moment.

Brother: I have a question, If you were born again, if it's clear to you, like where does that leave us or where does
that leave me?
STEW:good question, of course
Brother: Like how do I know whether I am a christian or if I'm a non-christian.
STEW: It centers around the subject as to the issue, Have you died on the cross?Has the old self died? Or are you
still running a second life? A vague hope of something in , Hope! of something in this life. And the word hope
becomes very very critical. Do you have 2 lives going or one?, the thing I always talked about. I had 2 lives going.
You understand what I'm saying?(yeah yes, not really)
Brother: does it have to do with me relying on myself , us brothers?I'm surrendered to Jesus but sometimes I rely
on myself, I know I shouldn't
STEW: By the way , I said I had 2 lives, thats correct,really, that's correct, technically you can, actually you can't.
That's correct. what did I do? I'm new to this
CHUCK: I have a question...If you would have died a year
STEW: Yeah
CHUCK: or 6 months , you  you you have the confidence or understanding that you would have gone to Heaven or
Hell?
STEW: Definitely Hell
( whispers and hushes of disbelief)
Brother: What about pre-destination?
STEW: what about it? If anyone is in fact one of His elect.What's the problem? They're going to Heaven. Whatever
it takes.  Is He a savior?(yes)Whatever it takes, is what He'll do. If He feels like taking 25 years, 25 seconds,
what's the difference, by the way, saved and born again. Exactly what are they , of course. Can they occur at once?
they can. They can occur simultaniuosly or they can be anything in between. But saved is first and bron again is
last. Saved begins with the sheep even! Saved begins with the sheep. And continues all the way. But born anew is a
point where the discipleship begins. You will understand this. Do ya hear the ahh concepts I'm saying?(yeah, yes).
You'll understand it clearly. It is the cross that is the great divide. Your cross! And you cannot even be His disciple.
you're not fit, you're not fit. you must get fit. How do you get fit? It comes down to your mind. it comes down to your
mind. how do you like that? And choosing your hope, understanding that you can only have one. Recognizing, that is
everywhere. This somehow hah..That you have 2 lives, I actually said it again didn't I? Good grief ! Well I'm not
perfect y, know. You gotta come to understand the difference between, between ahh...not perfect and trespasses
and sins. Let's hear it Chuckie, what's yer problem?
CHUCK: I don't know, itt's hard for me to believe, about like you going to Hell and ahh....I don't know if I can say it
right ...I don't know like all the things you've told us and everything umm over the years, coming from a man that
would have gone to Hell if died. it just doesn't make sense
STEW:{insistant} It makes perfect sense, What not?
CHUCK:...............................
STEW: It's your pre-conceived notion, that yer clinging to, that's the problem. Why doesn't it make perfect sense?
What's wrong with that? What says that can't be?
CHUCK:.........................I don't know if I can say it right...I don't know..it just seems strange.
STEW: I guess it is yeah
CHUCK: I mean, you've shown, you've shown us alot of confidence
STEW: That's right...well hey come on ..let's not belly ache. You've heard over and over for the last 6 months that
I've lost confidence in myself as the basis
CHUCK: Right
STEW: You heard that over and over..for a long time. let's go. What is it?
OUTSIDER JOHN: Stewart? How can you reconcile
STEW: You're an old man. is that the problem?
OUTSIDER JOHN: How can you reconcile?
STEW: {to John} You don't mind interrupting him?
JOHN: No, I don't mind interrupting him. It says here in Romans 6 "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin..
CHUCK: You should let me finish
STEW: well well let's umm...
JOHN: and alive to God in Christ Jesus" count yourselves
STEW: yeah
JOHN: The passage is towards ...We therefore who were buried with Him, through Baptism into death, Now notice
the past tense of the verse. "We were therefore buried with Him, through baptism into death, in order that just as
Christ was raised from the dead, to the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with
Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His ressurection. For we know That our old
self was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of
sin, because anyone who died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live
with Him. For we know that Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again, and death no longer has mastery
over Him. The death He died, He died to sin , once for all. But the life He lives , He lives to God. Then, in the same
way, IN THE SAME WAY, count yourselves dead to sin and alive to God." That is the scripture. What you are
saying is NOT TRUE!  That That you now are born again means that you no longer sin, is this true?
STEW: It's true
JOHN: So you will never sin again?
STEW: That's correct
JOHN: That is a lie
STEW: Prove it!
JOHN: It's a Lie
STEW:PROVE IT!
JOHN: your pride is evidence so
STEW: PROVE IT BY THE SCRIPTURES..You know the scriptures you just read are all that I was just saying
( YEAH YES , THAT"S RIGHT ..that's what I was thinking, yeah, )
JOHN: WHAT you are saying is not what this says
STEW: Well maybe you are, maybe one of us doesn't understand. Maybe there's a problem in ahhh...
JOHN:  Let me hear
STEW: Yeah
JOHN: You said that no christian can sin
STEW: that's correct
JOHN: okay ..that we have to die
STEW: Yes..not physically
JOHN: right..When we die, when did you die?, as you believe in Jesus, when di you die?
STEW: When I gave up my life in this world and followed Him
JOHN: That's not true because, Here it says "For we know that our old self was crucified with Him
STEW: Exactly..Exactly
JOHN: So we died at Calvary
STEW:  He did and So Did I
JOHN: WE DIED!
STEW: SO DID I!!
JOHN: I died at Calvary
STEW: Yes, I did, I don't know about you, I did
JOHN: I did.. wel if you died at Calvary, why do you have to die now?
STEW: Because He said so. Because both are true as Gayle was pointing out. Both are very very clear. We did die
and we are dying daily. We must take up our cross daily. both are true. they are flat all over  many of each. now
think about it. think about it.
JOHN: okay.....so now yer saying, that as a Christian you can't sin
STEW: this isn't not..well John said it
JOHN: Okay , now I disagree with the whole premise, by the way, your whole premise that that is what that
passage means, okay,Because what you said was close when you said we are being changed from one degree of
glory to another. And I'll tell you what it means. We do have a Holy Seed within us, that cannot sin. And that Holy
Seed within us, the Spirit of Christ within us burns, it's a judgment within us, and it burns our outer nature. Our outer
nature, our sinful nature does not go to Hell. Where does it say that it does. It wastes away. it does not go to
Gehenna. it does not go into the eternal flame. it gets judged and burned as by fire. But it does not go to Hell. Do
you agree?
STEW: No
JOHN: Where is the passage that says it does?
{{{Stew whispers 'What's his name?"}}}
STEW:{{striking a resonable tone}}} See John,  there's ah there's ah misunderstanding. We don't want to go too far
in this now. There's alot more that we need to understand. I haven't presented the picture yet. How bout you let, let
us go on. But , but really listen, you know , write down your questions. I'll be glad to answer  them. This absolutely
is true. don't , too quickly deny it. don't deny it.
JOHN: I'm believing what the word of God says. I'm not listening to what you're saying. Because what you are
saying and what the word of God is saying are 2 distinct things.
STEW: Okay, Okay
JOHN: And anybody else, who has thought that and who has not said it, is a coward.(muttering)
OUTSIDER JOHN NO. 2::: Excuse me sir, I do not know you, but I've been listening for 2 hours argue and twist
the Word of God and the people here have listened to you. And you have very well controlled them.  And you don't
understand, I understand what's happening, I see it. you belittle people and use peer pressure to put people down.
I've heard wonderful words spoken and you don't hear it. Words out of your mouth, "very clearly" "very chrystal
clear"  "you will understand"  All those words are hypnotic words and to repeat it over and over ....you are being
pulled in You know what? You must , you must study for yourself to be approved , a workman unto God, rightly
dividing the word of Truth. it's not being rightly divided and that's why it does not come down...Watch and guard
carefully what's been entrusted to you, or it will be taken from you. the fire of God will fall on you instead of burn
through you. Watch carefully how you guard the word which has been trusted unto you. Do not be misled by one
person. God dwells within you and the Spirit of God is the scribe that wrote the word of God. And He interprets it.
Be very careful, I still haven't heard a thing in 2 hours, and I'm waiting to hear " Thus saith..whatever
Brother: Excuse me
JOHN the 2nd: I don't hear that
Brother: what's yer name?
John2: John
Brother: Jesus said " do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment. So you can't just come in and say
"This is going on" you gotta have evidence.
STEW: Well, I'm sure they agree that we have to stay calm.(yeah) I'm sure they agree we need to stay calm. And
really study and really honestly consider right?(YEEEEEESSSS) Okay, no problem
JOHN2: Well I just don't have anymore time, it's been 2 hours already, I've been waiting to hear(laughing..."he
really cares", clamor)
STEW: many months ago in a issue ofChristian History magazine had an article on what was a group, It was called
perfectionism. Remember me speaking of that?(yes) I lightly looked at the article. I know just about zero of what
they were saying. It ended horribly. And the group ended horribly. This smacks of that. One of the worst possible
things is a wrong kind of " I never sinned." It's by the Grace of God only and the word is "keeps" because "he who
is born of God, keeps him." It isn't that I do it. He guarentees  and He keeps me. it's by His first saving grace and
then by His keeping.  Gayle was finding, she looked up in the dictionary. There's always 2 different kinds of grace.
Remember? Saving and preserving. Saving and keeping. The flesh greatly wants, greatly wants .........it's
okay....................the arrogant man will not abide............that's sad....but I know that's going to happen a great
deal..... Each one of you are gonna mark yourself as a liar{{tone of "or" here but ST doesn't say it}}} , each one of
you, not according to what I say either. And it's gonna take alot more than 2 hours, was it 2 hours?Take alot more
than that for this to sink in enough for you to handle it. But you'll be off and running and able to handle it, if you
really do love truth enough to.... to seek it, and if you love Jesus enough and trust Him enough to surrender to Him.
the real thing is He corrects his opponents with gentleness. I am confident that I'll never have a better. There is no
valid attack. But I know what I'm doing from now on..right?(yes..muttering) You know that? hah....For three days I
was saying "well at least I'm back into having fun again. But I mustn't....I mustn't back into interests.

I wrote out some cards...I never worked hard at anything in my life, why should I? I never saw anything worth
working at. underline "saw"...I did alot of stuff... But I never saw anything worth working at and getting serious.
Now I do ...Now I see the real thing. those verses he read were all obviously the real thing. I'm aware most of you
are surprised.  He seemed to be arguing, for the truth(muttering in agreement). But didn't want to hear it. That's
what yer gonna hear from now on.

TAPE 2 Side 2

God can keep you. Its well written. When I was writing em. And 3 times "don't lie and say He can't" it's written out
3 times, You're a liar if you say He can't. And that's the problem right there. And why are you lying? "I don't want
to really surrender." "I don't want the concept of this moment I am living on borrowed time. The life I live is no
longer for me. I don't want that." The flesh doesn't want that. But I'm living on borrowed time. And I act as though I
am already dead physically. That I'm building nothing in this life. Kevin, at the meeting, said he was starting, and he
said, it was clear he was looking to success. This vague feeling, that somewhere down the line I'm gonna have
success. And that feeling means success in this life. And it's all wrong. Any success that we have is 100% His
success. And this feeling that "I'm gonna have success" is of the devil. I understand it. Last thing you're gonna see
me do is pick a fight or ahh..by the grace of God. One of the acid tests is this word love. Not being nice to people,
not helping them out. Love isn't arrogant.

I really see something worth working at for the first time ever. 1John really is beautiful. Think we ought to take a
break?(yes, yeah...weak) Short Break maybe? (yes) I haven't even referred to the notes. I'm just trying to get over
the initial shock. My hope already consciously is that....I know many will hear out there and do their thing out there
and that somehow I can get to them before they do too much of this suicide. I'm careful to construct that already. I
know what's coming. That's love , by the way. "you therefore must be perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is
perfect." "Father", notice, not sheep. I'm telling you now the patterns are perfect. These patterns. I haven't begun
to speak of them. They're Perfect!! Calm Down!  Everything he said made sense. "The 99 who have no need of
repentence." I don't need to repent. I have. For real. I don't need to repent. And as far as testimony, What do you
think, Gayle?

GAYLE: I think you have
STEW: Well , there's one witness. If I have , for real , then I don't need to. Unless I sinned again. So no wonder He
said "have no need of repentence." And everything makes sense. But the flesh doesn't want to hear it. From now
on, there's going to be a division. And I am going to bear with the failings of the weak, greatly! You know the rest.
That doesn't mean you surrender to the liars. But we don't need to be liars, we can, we can ..be careful. So why
don't we take a bathroom break?(very weak yes). 10 or 15 minutes...right?(right) God Bless you brothers and
sisters. (the break occurs)

Let's listen Now!! WANNA HEAR ANOTHER IDIOT TALK!!??!!( NO YES...confused) That idiot talk was that
"sinless" talk recently. 'HO HO HO well you're just trying to be sinless'  and I started that. When was that? That
you can't be sinless?(bout 3 or 4 months ago, 6 months ago) Whe was that?( February..clamor) well anyway What is
the real story? That we have sinned. And we have sin in our members. But we can and must lead a sin-free life!
HEY PAY ATTENTION QUIT YOUR WRITING, PAY ATTENTION. HOW IS JESUS CHRIST GLORIFIED
THROUGH US BY CONTINUING IN SIN?( He's not... clamor) Well then?HE's NOT GLORIFIED BY HIS
SHEEP!! SHOW ME THAT!! HE"S GLORIFIED BY HIS SHEEP. Show me a shepherd that is glorified by his
sheep. We are able to glorify Him. We are called to it. Meanwhile we continue in sin. And excuses, well, excuses to
justify sin. What are we up to? This is His promise TO KEEP US!! He who is born of God will KEEP him. What kind
of a savior is He. "Well, a pretty good one, but ahh, in other words....A COMPLETELY SINLESS LIFE. Not that
you are without sin. If any says is, It says in 1John "If anyone says he has no sin or has never sinned, he's a liar. Or
doesn't have sin, we have sin in our members. Wretched man that I am, but thanks be to God, who doesn't it
Himself. gives us the victory. There is therefore now no condemnation as long as you're over the fence. That is his
disciple. From there on , no condemnation. Completely sinless life is available to you. DON'T LIE AND SAY IT
ISN'T. DON'T LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T!!! YOU'RE LYING IF YOU SAY IT ISN'T. And you're lying because
you want to justify the flesh. On the other hand, If I admit it, "I must surrender" or face that I am choosing Hell.
Ohh..I don't want that..what am I gonna do? Everything else is find a teacher to your liking. Where you can feed
your fantasy. Everything else is find one to your liking. you will see that. And also, also. What is the real reason
why you still are  and desire to have to be in sin! Why would you argue for that anyway? Because you really can't
help it. right? you really can't help it. There really is no way. Hah hah. If that were true. If you really couldn't help
it. If there was not a clear. Look, all you've got to do is drop dead and you'll never sin. No?(yesss)"I don't wanna
die"{{{ST mocking tone}}} "It isn't worth it to me.""I wanna live for.".ooops..I shouldn't say that...this life." I don't
count Him really ...the best thing."or I do. Yeah there's gonna be a real division. He said "Who is on my side, I'm
on the Lord's side, are you with me or against me, Remember he said "who is on the Lord's side." How is Jesus
glorified if sin continues. And why does sin NEVER continue in the New Testament? No where will you see the
word sin and anything from disciple on up connected. NOWHERE! The word sin. Here's the disciple sinning, no
way. Here's the saint sinning, non- concept. It's over. Otherwise, what did He accomplish? "WELL he was a big
sinner, now he's a widdo one." That's all He accomplished right?(silence) Got it?(silence) Are you
listening?(YESSS). Get the point or not?(YESS) Alright the sin issue.  Sin is the most fundamental issue in human
life. And sheep, by the way, Human, soul...human and soul. The sheep of course is the Human, including the old self.
Now the old self must die. You don't shoot the sheep! you shoot the self. Crucify the self. Which is the agent of sin.
AND THEREFORE IT IS WRITTEN 'LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS. Because where there is no
self, there can be love, they are against each other. There is no way you can have self and love together. don't you
know that humanly?(yes..right) It's one or the other. The only way for love to be operating is for self to die.
Therefore if you are loving actually and doing loving things, that's what He said " Therefore he is born of God." "
Whoever loves is born of God." And his sins are covered. His old sins. Doesn't mean new sins. No such thing as sin
in Christian life. There's no sense discussing it. The New Testament doesn't. And I and all Christians talk about it.
All the time. Always sin, always dealing with the sin in Christians. there is no such thing. These are sheep. Someday
they may be disciples. they may be Christians. but they're not now. Isn't that clear?(weak "yes).  Anyway I value
making Him look good. So I'll use the power He gave me. Gave them power to become... yeah "All manner of sin
will be forgiven Christians, no way, ..man...just man. And the pattern is everywhere.  Sin is forgiven men. not
christians, because there's no sin to forgive. or they're not christians. it's that simple. To go to heaven you have to
be very very good. "He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." And even the meaning and intent of that
passage doesn't mean physical suffering. "Has ceased"..."COME TO YOUR RIGHT MINDS AND WHAT?( sin
no more)..now how do you like that? RIGHT MINDS. Who are you?If you are a sheep at all. If you're one of His
sheep at all. Why don't you come to your right mi..the mind of Chr.., the man. they weren't. They weren't disciples.
isn't the brethren He's talking to. which is both together. You look that up , the characters he calls brothers. and
furthermore John 8"He who commits sin is a slave to sin." "those who belong to Christ Jesus HAVE crucified the
flesh."yeah..John 8 we always understood that "he who commits sin" means he's really into it. But somehow a
weekend sinner is okay. "So you must consider yourselves dead to sin."  BUT YOU CAN'T. soYou must consider
yourselves dead to sin, You must, It's on you, BUT YOU CAN'T blank ..when you know what yer up to. And what
you haven't done. So why not be honest. "We were dead in trespasses and sins, while we were physically alive."
Now we are still physically alive but we are dead to sin. This must be the picture. You must be perfect. There is no
such thing as WEEKEND ABIDING Either...it ain't a hotel. "Surely there isn't a righteous man on earth." that's
right , there isn't one. That's right , you fell for it. "Surely there isn't one." By the way, another new saying, the
earth...the earth is good for 2 things. It's good for falling into and bearing fruit and it's good for graves. And that's
all the earth is good for. Do not be deceived, as He said , this is not just some ideal that we'RE STRIVING
TOWARD! I think is one of the tricks. "Well , yes, This is my ideal, I sure would like to be this way, I hope
someday I am, but in the meantime, it's okay. It's okay. " Some sort of "Wait and See"..Sin,  you just haven't
started the Christian life yet. We may be the elect, His sheep, we don't know it yet. What Sheep knows His
shepherd as a man? You hear His voice, a wind, there's a sort of a elementary reaction. that's not the sheep "Of Hi
there Shepherd." He doesn't know Him as a man so. Sheep believe as Sheep. And disciples believe as disciples.
That's quite a study right there. They both believe, but in different ways. It's clear. Look for problems in these
areas, you won't find them. Not with this view. The mind of the apostles. That is incredible. There's the pursuit of
sin, love of it and there's falling into sin. But don't be deceived, both are committing sin. If the one is more humanly
understandable, that's neither here nor there.

Why didn't He just  write in the bible, "Saints cannot sin" somewhere, why isn't there another passage like this
somewhere. Then surely I would have noticed. Just another one somewhere then. And as a matter a fact there is, in
the Gospel of John, somehow I always ran over it. John 8. "If the son makes you free you will be free indeed."He's
a slave otherwise. to sin. Followed by "If you continue..." He said to the Jews that believed in Him. He said to the
sheep, remember. He said "If you continue.."  up to Chapter 12 and beyond. but then they started arguing. First
they talked nice. John 6 too, they talked "Lord give us this bread always" and then they started fighting again. It
wasn't really listening. 1 Timothy 5 :24 "The sins of some men are conspicuous, pointing to judgment, but the sins of
others appear later. That happened with me. Then there's the subject of fighting sin. Remember a  while ago,
fighting sin?Fighting the wrong way. There is, there is a taking up the cross. But, um..yeah there's alot of wasted
energy by not.....by not fighting the fight of the faith. It's the obedience of faith, remember! It's not being good. As a
little child understands. Although it's true, what the child says. Well, we've gotta look at these things an awful lot
closer. I'm just running over them. And another thing, "As He was in this world so ARE WE!" He is described in
one way. Being the same as us except that He had no sin. Er go what must we be?(mumbling.."have no sin") Have
no sin. Not that we of ourselves have no sin. there is sin in our members. But that's not me. We must be like Him.
We are in fact. 1 John is a very conceited looking book isn't it?(mumbling yeah). You will hear many from now on
call me conceited. I say again, you will hear many from now on call me conceited. But you know better. You know
better. "As He was in this world, so are we."  He has freed us from our sins. Therefore we are without sin, because
He freed us. "Who can say I have made myself pure?" That's true. He has freed us from our old sins. And He has
freed us from sin period. And they're 2 different things. And He has freed us from sin by allowing us to be able to be
united with Him in a death like His. so that we even now rise in newness of life, mirroring His resurrection and ours.
We are united with Him now, in His death and His life as He lived here in this world. We'll also be united with Him
in His Resurrection. As clear as can be. I count death with Him far better than life in this world. Each of us will,
will.... prove what we are. I do or I don't......use some brains, you're gonna die anyway, so why not commit suicide so
that's it's worth something. confidence for the day of judgment. Have no sin , no spot. Yup, confidence for the day of
judgment. something we were always round and round about.(yup) The only way to have confidence , to bold
approach the throne of grace is "I have no sin". What is this well I hope here, I hope there, well I hope it's okay,
i'm sinning but I hope He forgives me. But there is no confidence and no peace. The older ones , How do you like
that life?(nooo) Well it is not His plan or His will, that we should be that way. Folks, are you getting sleepy...or
tired(a very sleepy "noo").  "Hope" and Mind" there's a very good connection. In your minds, you know your
hope. And you certainly know if you are bothering and I know I never did, that's one of the ways I know. I never
executed all hope in this life. Not consciously. got rid of it. therefore it continued. If you don't get rid of it. Now
"Hope" and Mind". the mind is important. "With my mind I serve the law of Christ." I have some notes about it.
Then there is this whole thing of the process of the upward call, a whole bunch of notes about
sheep/disciple...friend....branches.... and overview notes about the whole subject. the growing process. In fact, not
even growing, it's even the process before you're growing, that is the sheep. From the sheep all the way to Saints.
And the language that is used always and therefore the view, that they always had. Uniformly, all of the apostles at
every point. And after that is , yeah "Let the wheat and tares grow together, lest in knocking this one out you
knock that one out." But the wicked, The really wicked ....drive out from among you. but the wheat and the tares. If
it isn't gross wicked you don't know. But gross wicked should not be there. Let the wheat and tares grow together.

Now there's honest Christians....no I'm sorry..there are honest sinners, honest sinners, there's no such thing as
honest christians. you are either Christian or non. There's honest sinners. There's christians. And then there's the
third weird category. honest sinners and again there is no such thing as an honest backslider. He never was a
christian. period. Never saw Him, never knew Him and all the rest. Honest sinners, there's Christians and then
there's the third weird thing, sounds like the owls and the bats and all, there's wolves, liars,Truthsurpessers.
Lukewarm. what else? All weird things. honest sinners, Christians and the third weird.

Now there's a difficult verse. "If anyone bears the name of brother." Just brother not disciple, "And he is guilty of
immorality, have nothing to do with him, don't even eat with him." Is it clear or not?(noo) Get rid of the word
brother, if he bears the name of brother. I admit, I am nothing but a sinner."If he bears the name of brother.....you
have nothing to do with him. If he bears and he's claiming that he is and He's guilty of immorality, if he's an honest
sinner, well...immoral people, if we are not allowed to talk to immoral people comma..what's the rest?( we'd have to
leave the world) Therefore if he bears the name of brother. Now how does he bear the name of brother. Obviously
he's not a christian. but somehow he's in there, now it got gross. And He's guilty, that is , he's has not repented. If
he has repented, then he's back in the brother and the sheep category. He still isn't born anew. But he's back as a
sheep. And we work on it. this is approximately what we have always done. listen, let him be as a tax collector,
doesn't mean he's going to Hell. If fact, He even said go out and bring in the bad ones. But it's that if he bears the
name of brother, that's the key. doesn't say he can't be saved. perhaps later, and there is a clearer thing, and
perhaps he will become a real disciple. they didn't accept Paul at first either, remember. 'He who puts his hand to
the plow and looks back is not fit.

What's he doing? Is he hoping? is he thinking again?(yea). so what's the picture? He's a sheep! He's not fit for the
kingdom. and He's remaining a sheep. Does it make sense?(mumbling) Let me break in here for a sec. The Sheep
is not fit for the Kingdom? How bout John 10 when Jesus the Good Shepherd gives His sheep eternal life, Stewy?
Does it make sense?(YESS). I should think so. Quite clear...to me. Then there's  "saved" and "born again"...that's
a really good one. patterns showing in different areas showing patterns. Statement of view, the importance of John
12:24, he who is died is freed from sin, the good thing about Hope. what is the good thing about hope?Well you
know about it. since that is the..that's coming down to the crunch, as to whether you are crucifying self or not.
You're in control of that. OH I know you're so pitiful, you can't help it. That's standard game but for how long?
Because there was a way in this crazy thing. there was a way to gain advantage. the real thing there ain't. the good
thing about hope. Hope is a thing over which we have power. if our hope is only in him, it's only by His Spirit. How
could humans put humans to death. I mean how could you humanly put yourself to death for no reason? hah in some
real way you can. It's only by His Spirit that you can do it. "No one can say Jesus is Lord, actually say that.

Now you see, even though all of you, or some of you or whatever, even though you were willing to set your hope in
God. i mean this is all hindsight, theoretical...even though  you were willing.....my example and the lack of truth has
made your problem worseNO KIDDING. that's the truth, sad to say..but by..literally by the grace of God, no
longer. We all have the same problem. I was continuing the problem, I was continuing in it myself. And so I was
making it worse for you. Cuz my example looks like "Wow he knows what he is doing, hah ehah, oh well I guess it's
okay." got it?("yes"...weak and really in disbelief and a little disgusted). Now he set us free. do you know that life
almost equals hope? There's an old saying... life ahh ...."Hope springs eternal in the human breast" and that's the
whole problem. We were always hoping in Christmas Morning. Remember that?(yess)Something now. in other
words there was a groping after this stuff...but it was not according to truth. Like Apollos, fervent spirit, but it was
off. Life almost equals hope. So how many lives do you have? Really only one. Trying to live as though you have 2
lives and 2 hopes. it's a fantasy , you don't. Now human beings will tell you that. And Christians will tell you that.
And if you're with and in between, you'll hear anything. turns out hope is the key. Faith, hope and love. Hope really
is the key. It takes faith and setting your hope , both to take up your cross. That's the only way that you can bear
the fruit of love. Even then , you know, you're not bearing the fruit of love in the wheat and John 12:24. That's
righteousness. the Harvest of righteousness. What we have done is to continue 2 hopes, instead of executing one of
them and leaving only the other. Therefore Kevin says "Well , we'll have success, Hey fella, we're gonna have
success, aren't we aren't we?" then a vague hope of "I'm gonna get it together." therefore what happened
instantly?I said they don't notice it. "Why don't we forget about this and just a life of close to Jesus. And what
happened?(blah blah) don't react , now why? what does that show about you?
PAUL: that we chased after things like that alot
STEW: and maybe you have learned your lesson. you have learned your lesson. Continuing 2 hopes instead of
executing the one and leaving only the other. the fact that we still have a vague hope in this life is proof that we
have never been born anew. A vague hope is continuing. As of now, as of now. It always was proof but now there's a
clearer standard. Y'll start to see it(yees). Chuckie?
CHUCK: YES
STEW: What?
CHUCK: I see that
STEW: THE WHOLE BILL OF GOODS or just some Chuckie?
CHUCK: I'm starting to see the whole bill of goods
STEW: Heey! We're getting there. let's proceed. If we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. Now how
should I judge myself "oh , let's see, did I do this sin? ahh Did I do that?" You know it's somewhere in what am I
really up to. okay ...what am I really up to? "Well I'm a nice fella""I help people" Chuckie tells me I help people.
I'm not such a mean...I mean , I'm handsome(laughing). Now How bout hope. Is there any hope in this life(noo).
Okay am I acting as though there is? Am I allowing a hope in this life to continue or not? Now there's the right
judgment. And anymore that's going to become very clear.don't worry. And we do have to understand the difference
between interests and hope. We have to!{{{tapping a file card on table). This is part of why, you characters never
married.{{{{tapping file card}}} Marriage is an interest. And his interests are divided that's true. But it's still the
best thing it's called. And it seems dangerous and treacherous. Well the safe thing is to do nothing. But you're not
just doing nothing, you are continuing a vague hope. Anyway, interest and hope. We are told, there was these
ones..."they all look after their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ." Well, that's not saying, you mustn't have
your won interests and only Jesus. it's not saying that. That would be wonderful. But another passage tells you,
directly, make sure that you also look out for the interests of others not your own only. Indicating that we do look
after our interests, but it's , at His leading. And He does lead us, concerning them. And we are responsible to Him
about it. When does interest become hope?Well now that will get clearer. the peace that comes from one hope. Not
back and forth. No more conflicting thoughts. Accusing.  if you were physically dead, you would have no more sick
feelings would you?(no). No conflicting thoughts. living on borrowed time..is that you're attitude? the life I live, I'm
living on borrowed time. There's a hope issue.  Turns out Romans 6:7 is a very critical verse..."He who has died is
freed from sin." And only he who has died is FREED FROM SIN!!. Shoulda stuck an only in there.

And , by the way, "You have been born anew, to a living hope." Now hope has a great deal to do with it then. That
was the purpose. We glorify Him by hoping in His promise, instead of hoping in this life. but we glorify Him.
Thereby we serve Him. But you know if it's a game. or if you killed everything that moved..or did you let some of it
live? Yooou Know{{{mock accusing tone}}}. Secret life, we aren't playing both sides. So therefore the pearl of great
price, when and sold all that he had and invested it. And there is a double-minded man. He won't receive anything
from the Lord. He's a man, by the way, not a disciple, as always. Every single time. "Brother" will include very
strange characters up to but not including open immorality. Up to but not including ...that's where you draw the line.
And you know the case where he sentenced him to death.  extreme immorality. the pattern is there.

And then , of course , there are other subjects, such as Love and Self. And the kind of thing, hah..I was always
saying, not doing it though, "I wanna" is Lord. "I wanna"....."Well I wanna", "I don't want this" that's , it's going
to become very clear to these thousands of people that the jig is up. And...well here's the thing, there out there
fantasizing "that I shall be safe, though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart." the jig is up. they are not safe.
They are going to find out that they are not safe. they may keep it up. but there is gonna be a big division. no more
of this pitiful, nice and this and that. it's love or hate. can't you see..Mind and Hope...the whole package here? the
Mind and Hope thing. Veeerrry important!! "On becoming a church."  "The theory of Stewart." describing our
church and what happened therefore. I was saying a month ago...that I know that I must consecrate myself. I didn't
know what I was talking about. it was something like that. I didn't know what. this is necessary for your sake. It's
also necessary for my salvation. literally , by the Grace of God, literally by the Grace of God. the first is saving
grace and then His keeping grace. By that grace, I going to be the best example I can be of a non-phoney but loud
mouthed christian that eh I don't know about the language but never sinned ahh never sinning, that is ahh... a right
kind of boasting. Not at all this strange or sick thing that winds up I'm good and you're bad. That's all wrong. That
winds up that way is no good is of no value. in order to show you how true and how good this way really is. That's the
consecrated in truth part. To show you it works. it's true and it's good. Yeah...and bear with the failings of the weak
as Jesus has with me for a quarter of a century. But I will by no means surrender to the liars, and who are the liars
but those who choose to continue living in self and sin and trying to call it Jesus or "I'm okay" or  something else or
trying to muddy it. Well it's not muddy. Got it?(yeah) There is and will be no longer anywhere to hide. You can lie
but you can't hide. This is the one and only true gospel. Know that the Son of God has come and has given us
understanding to know Him who is true, the one and only true gospel. This is true life, eternal life, little children,
make sure you only have one hope.
 
  TAPE 3 continued from the 1 John1989 Part2 Transcribed by Mike Walker

 

Are you one of Jesus' sheep? That is it. Of course, you'll have more understanding about what's going on. Are you one of his sheep? Then what you need to do is be reborn. That's the approach. Don't go to "you need to get saved" as much. You need to be reborn. Then there's our future.  I'm just telling you the titles, the subjects, that are the most critical things to settle. For instance, an open mind, and hope, and interest. Its not because I'm saying it, but the scriptures clearly show that we do have interests; as humans. And they aren't wrong, per se. It's idols that are wrong. Do you have any questions, so far? How's your recovery coming, people?   good. And you don't ever have to sin again. There is no need whatsoever. No need? In fact it isn't even mentioned; it's assumed. In the New Testament there's no verse that says: "And of course, you Christians will never sin again..." Well, obviously, everybody knew it. It's everywhere in what they're saying. Well, as a matter of fact, they do say it: "come to your right mind and sin no more", and "go and do not sin again." It just doesn't have the sentence, "well, as you know Christians never sin."  If it had that in there wouldn't that have made a better Bible? (sarcastically) Then he wouldn't have needed to do all this. But then on the other hand, he didn't need to do all this, either. What is he up to? Who knows? Now the question is: is he worth following, or not. ((Yes)) Okay, but sheep following ain't going to do it. And, therefore there is a constant pressure: shape up. Turn and be a disciple and get out of being a sheep. Look at it again. It's pressure to grow; the upward calling. But the dividing line, sin. ... Sin ends at the sheep. You don't shoot the sheep, by the way. Let's hear your questions and complaints, customers.

Brother: There is a point, a choice to be born anew?

ST: Certainly, you don't understand that?

Brother: Yes, that's what I thought. Before, we were saying there's no choice God just does it you are one of the elect and you don't even know when.

ST: First of all, all kinds of people have been born anew. They have, in fact, done this John 12.24 and never knew it. They have done it and are born anew. A child comes to know "I was born." Obviously, if you are born, you grow up, you look back and see "I was born." "I had to be born, to be what I am now." You choose the things that bring about the new birth, but there is no such thing as deciding: "I have decided to be born again." No such thing. We choose the things, choose to put to death, by giving up hope in this life. But, we don't choose to be born again, therefore you never say, as I always did, "you want to be born again?" It isn't "do you want to be born again", it's "do you want to follow Jesus? Well here's what He says. Here's how to follow him."  And if they do it, they are being reborn in the process. You understand that? (murmuring.)

Sister: It's a process of being reborn?

ST: In the thinking of the "momentary decision" to follow Jesus, completely. Those that do are reborn by doing so. Isn't that clear? No, okay?

Brother: It seems that being reborn happens later.

ST: Reborn is fall in the earth and die. The disciple. We are born again to a living hope. You have to put to death the old hope. You can't have two hopes. And it is in falling in the earth and dying, that we are born anew. And that prayer that I've written, there's something to it. Not that we decide to be born again. That is what he is showing in "born again", when this new life of a new hope starts. And how does it start unless the old one ends. It can't. You haven't been studying the living word, really, have you? (dejectedly) no. Okay, but this one is your very life. Now you really study this one, you see what you find. I, by no means, have worked out all the... The basis is clear, and that's all. Born anew. The sheep is saved, and we're being saved; we're closer now to salvation. It is correct to say that we're saved though being born anew. We're saved by means of being born anew. And this new life continues all the way to where no salvation is needed. After salvation. Salvation becomes complete. This new life never becomes complete. It's always. Nobody gets saved in Heaven. The new life goes on. You're save through being born anew, isn't that obvious? He "reborned" you. You start a new life. There can't be two lives at once. - I'm sorry, there can't be two HOPES. In a way there are two lives. There's our life physically here now, but the purpose of it now is not to live for self. We've been born anew and this new life is to live for Him. But we're still here physically, but it's a new creation, the whole thing. A new creation does not mean just "a child of God within me" it's a whole creation, it's a bunch of things. All things are made new. The whole business. The new creation means all the earth, the whole creation, and somehow we have become all those things put together. A whole new creation. All these figures, they all mean things about this new existence.

Brother: In John 6.66 the disciples who turned back and no longer went about with Him... Were they actually disciples?

ST: No, obviously, they aren't the real ones. They looked real.  In the parable of the wheat, they started, but some of them turned back. False brethren. "If they were of us, they would have continued with us." When it came to a hard thing, they turned back. They weren't the real ones. Not the elect. Although, maybe some returned, you don't know. But, they did not continue in His word and were not truly His disciples. The picture holds. It is the mind of the Apostles. Scary? It only scary to the degree to which you're grasping. Grasping of fantasy, grasping the wind.

Sister: Do the disciples still regard Jesus as shepherd?

ST: Didn't I go through that? From one degree of glory to another. The previous one still continues. We're still sheep, yes. You were straying but have now returned to the guardian of your souls.

Sister: When we give up our sheep life and become disciples...

ST: Hold it! Hold it! When we shoot the sheep... When we give up our fantasy that we're going to grab something and get somewhere. "Without me you can do nothing." When we give up the fantasy and face the facts, the way adults are supposed to be able to, and if we love Jesus, then what? He is still the shepherd of us as sheep, yes He is. He's still that shepherd. And our soul, that was all the way back in sheep... Soul, that is, human souls. There's more; I don't understand fully. The sheep, I think, includes everything about us humanly. Some of it has to go. The self, for instance.

Brother: Regarding the sheep to be slaughtered?

ST: Yeah, that's up to the sheep. But, basically, the sheep continue. With some change.

Brother: The branches and the vine, they're (unintelligible) of the sheep and disciples?

ST: Absolutely! No way! You know, you surprise me, you people. Sheep are hanging in the vine? (laughing) Disciples hanging in the vine is maybe just as bad. Absolutely, they are disciples; "you prove to be my disciples." You are truly my disciples if you continue, and now you've proven it, you're in the vine.

Brother: I think the key word is 'abide', as the sheep abide in the shepherd.

ST: They won't. Sheep won't abide. The shepherd has to make sure. But there's choice. You a man; you've got a mind now, as a disciple. And you choose, and if you continue choosing, living, "you are truly my disciples." Remember the previous lower ones, and you can't get too mechanical about it. I mean, is a saint higher than a friend? One degree of glory to another, and you know what the bottom is; sheep. And you know that the huge issue is converting to a disciple, and then growing. There are variations, I'm sure, in individual cases after that. What is NOT negotiable is that sheep don't go to Heaven. Sheep don't go to Heaven. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit... You must be reborn." Provided we suffer with Him, and then we'll be glorified with Him.  I think it's true in our, so-called, church, that sin is not a rampant as in alot of churches. What  do you think?  I think so. Why do I say that? Cause we're neither good nor bad? No. (various guesses) God has prepared us for this, and it ain't such a bad bullet to bite. Because we're prepared.
Now, with the spirit of the New Testament understood, how do you play games? How do you get pity? It's really a whole new ball game. Whatever we were, as of now, we are serious about our hope in Jesus or we aren't. Are there churches that understand this, that this is their standard of teaching? It's the only one there is, all else is imitation. We must find out; are there such churches. How do you like that? We are not alone in the universe, life has been found!

Sister: Is it true to say that in order for me to have confidence that I am truly saved, that I am
one of Jesus' whether I have surrendered my life to Him, Is that what I base my real confidence on?

ST: Absolutely. Or your fear. And you do well to fear. And that's the whole idea, that you either have fear or confidence, but no more of this half and half. You do well to fear, you're on your way to hell. If you know you're refusing. Just ask each other, are you in fear or in confidence? You don't even have to, you know. [You may say,] "I'm not fully surrendered." What is fully surrendered? What is surrender?

( mixed response.)

ST: How do you buy, sell, and trade in the temple anymore? "Present your bodies as a living sacrifice, Holy and acceptable." The whole New Testament will no longer be a mystery if you understand this view. Everything fits in. How do we know? The spirit of Christ within us, teaching us, we know... that everyone who commits sin is under the power of sin. And he who is born of God keeps him, the one who is born again, and he cannot sin. Can you believe that you didn't know that this morning? It seem so obvious. If that's true, what do I start assuming then? Christians never, never sin. Can you believe you didn't know that this morning, Chuckie? (Marburger).

Chuck M: In the past, at one point, we were all going to make a covenant not to sin.

ST: Yep. That's right. You don't need a covenant not to sin. Either we are in fellowship in serving the truth or we're not. And we know if we are or aren't. Our covenant is with the new covenant; with Jesus.  Well, how am I doing on my 'bill of goods,' people? ( mixed response) Start with the simple stuff. So I suppose that Jesus twice told people to do impossible stuff. "Go and do not sin again." It sounds half command and half "obviously you're going to do it." Just go and do it. But, is it possible? It's possible or it isn't possible. ((possible.)) Well, if its possible and I ain't it, why not? A lot of the power of the cross is your cross. Think about it. You read Romans and all the rest in a new light. Let me know about your new life.

Brother: When John was reading those verses, I was starting think that this is beginning to make sense according to the Bible. And then he turns around and says that what you're saying is wrong. But when he was reading the verses, I was beginning to see the connection.

enthusiastic response.

ST:  He couldn't have picked a better thing. On and off; were you hoping to find something in the next page? And he said the body doesn't go to hell?

Brother: that's a Jehovah Witness thing.

ST: Is he a JW?

Brother: No. (garbled)

ST: I hope not. They love the praise of men... Protecting my empire? Are we ready to pray together? It does not yet appear what our church will be, but it's got to be amazing. Our church, yes, our church. Now it is clear that He is beginning a church. When does a church become a church? Well, it's when He decides by His spirit, He makes it. You don't take the honor on yourself. There's lots of imitations. And you know, they produce faithful Christians. Either true or false churches.

Brother: When Jesus spoke to us the other day, twenty brothers were together in Philadelphia. He said, "I will make you very bold, you will be as bold as lions and all the world will know that you..."

ST: (interrupting) Really? Thank you Jesus. How do like that!

Brother: He also said, "I have destined great things for you in this life and for all eternity."

ST: In this life, all right, but only in Him.

Supper Break

ST: Now I notice that the sheep are excited. Why? What did you hear that's such bad news?
[pause] I'm waiting for the bad news.

I didn't hear any bad news.

ST: Well, what's the anxiety here?

Brother: Most of the brothers I was talking to, we see ourselves as sinners. And therefore when we die we will go to hell. We need to surrender and assurance of our salvation.

ST: "You need to surrender?" Does that say you're not surrendering?

Brother: I would say I'm surrendered.

ST: Well, what's the problem?

Brother: (May be Jim Griener) I don't know about others, but I have 'zero' confidence. I would like to say I'm surrendered. I think I have been, but my actions in the past always chose sin. That's what I keep going to.

ST: Well, what's changed? You think that somehow it looks harder now?

All (in unison): Yes

ST: That is ridiculous. It looks harder because now you have the feeling, "I better never sin." You have it backwards. Before, you thought you surrendered, now, you're totally taking care of yourself. "I'd better never sin." Where is His promise to keep you? "He who is born of God keeps hem and he cannot sin." Why aren't you putting faith in His promise? If you plan on how you keep yourself from sin, you don't need Jesus in the first place. The way you fight sin is not... That's totally outside of Jesus. Now what is the real way?

Brother: Faith in His promise to keep us from sin.

ST: Exactly. And furthermore, what is sin?

No answer.

ST: Now listen, you better get this straight. His promise is not to take sin out of your members, but to keep you from surrendering to it. When you look at sin in the New Testament, what you see is surrender, sin reigns, obey, yield, giving in and allowing it, in fear, towards faith in His promises. And He is glorified then. That's new to you, huh? I keep saying, "the sheep better calm down." Now suddenly you are not his sheep; and now it's all up to you. You are on your own.

Brother: I've been considering any ways that I may hoping in this life. I have the sense that it's on me to make sure. I've lost the sense that up to Jesus to do it.

ST: How? Now you have a double guarantee that He'll keep you. He will keep you from sin - and you know He's been keeping you, at least as His sheep. And that's worse? People, are you tired?

Yes and No's. (all sounding tired)

ST: You see, the real way, you need faith. What happened to grace? The language of this passage we read is such that "if you ever sin, that proves you weren't born anew." You took that as "I better not sin then." It's the other way around. This is the evidence. This keeping from surrendering to sin is a result of having been born anew. Your trying to work your way into it and that will mean you are born anew. No! Because you are looking to your power. Is this clear or what? Who says it's clear? Who says it isn't? It's about half and half. all right, the ones that say it is, you explain it. Let's hear it. Real quick. Let's not be draggy. By faith, let's jump in there.

Brother: It's through His grace that he has saved us from sin. And through His grace He's going to keep us from sinning. And through us not sinning and giving into sin is the evidence that we are born of Him.

ST: That's right.

Brother: We don't recreate ourselves in any way. I choose Jesus, and He keeps me from sin. I can't keep myself from sin, but I can choose Jesus over some other hope.

ST: You see, He has kept you as sheep, and He'll continue to do so if He has to. 25 years you can have of this. I happen to know it can last that long. Or, yo you can be kept as His children and disciples. And He trains you. I don't see what the problem is.

Brother: I think our old way of thinking is clouding what we are hearing today.

Brother2: As brother George said, it's His grace and Him doing it.

ST: All the way.

Brother 2: He's going to keep us, the enemy will come and say...

ST: Well, who has kept you.

Jesus!

ST: And who is it that said He'd keep you from sinning, ever?

Jesus!

ST: Well, then? You are worried He can't do it, huh? That's what you are saying; He can't do it.

Brother: I think it's slipping back to the old basis, that it's on me instead of Jesus.

Sister: When I think that my confidence in Jesus rests on whether or not I surrender to Him. That still leaves me unsettled because I do claim that I'm surrendered to Jesus, but I can't really see that as my basis for...

End of Tape 3 side 1

ST: Well, then? What's that saying about you? You want your hope set in Him? (right. Yes.)

ST: And furthermore, just take it the negative way. Do you condemn yourself that you are holding out. Insisting on hoping in this life.

No.

ST: Well, then, get smart. Cut it out! How could you be doing both? Hope is not an accidental thing. It's a calculation. It's a plan. [Either] my hope is in this life or I'm glad to get rid of my hope in this life and put it in Jesus.

enthusiastic agreement.

ST: And you can't tell which one you are doing? You can't tell if you are calculating, "my hope is in my empire in this life?" You can't tell?

Several Brothers: I can tell.

Mike Walker transcription ends here. Mike Montoya begins transcription. TAPE 3 Side 2

ST: Okay who can't tell? You just can't tell.. Let's hear it.."I just can't tell"...huh? I know I'm holding out but I'm not aware of any holding out I'm planning....and keeping hope in this life...I wanna transfer on the other hand....How many can say "I don't want it all transferred to Jesus?"...Who doesn't want your hope...all transferred to Jesus..let's hear it... what is this? Everybody wants their hope transferred to Jesus? YESSS!! (Sarcastically) Obviously He wouldn't help you do such a thing obviously (Laughing) You know ehh....That's pretty ridiculous..that's the sheep excited all right...

Paul Saustak: I was talking to some brothers..

ST: Our hearts do not condemn us....your heart condemns you...you know you're planning an empire in this life...and you don't wanna go be with Jesus..How's that? Does that sound right?..Let's hear it..anybody?(mumbling no) Well then it's one or the other...either you are knowingly holding out...or the hope is in Him...now is it clear enough?..should we drop it or not?(Yeeess) What's the next problem then? If you're not consciously holding out and you wants your hope in Him...what must you be investing in?(Jesus)your hope in Him..and your heart doesn't condemn you then and then you will have confidence. Why let yer ahh Why let it go round and round? Now it's new to you (mumbling yes) that song I surrender all...but you have to say I surrender 99% and that's it?( Noo) What is your will?(Surrender alllll Surrender to Jesus) then why won't you trust that He is going to keep His word then? Now..then you come to the other..one of the next ones is...Now who's gonna do this? You or Him?(mumbling Jesus) Now who keeps you?(JEEESSSUUSS) and then the next area....where there can be questions...What about sin? Remember he didn't say He would take sin out of your members...He said he would keep you from surrendering to it...that is yielding to it and obeying it...Now what else does that mean? Let's hear it....Let's hear it? In a way , you act as though  it's so different and it's not different at all...what is so different? To those who have set their hope in Jesus..what's the difference? (mumbling...nothing , more clear, easier) I'm tellin ya...I know I'm refusing  Let's hear some more questions then..(Stewart is speaking softly here)

Brother::: I wondering about the difference between sin and trespasses..how that fits in
ST: the difference between sin and trespasses ((then a silence))
Brother:: Yeah. if any man is overtaken in a trespass (barely speaking) just the whole difference, what the two mean, how they differ, how they ((more silence))
ST:: well first of all is there anywhere in scripture where you commit a trespass?((mumbling...no...there's overtaken in)) where is commit a trespass? it isn't. You don't obey trespasses...and yield to..overtaken is quite different...now .."he should be restored"..to what?well that's not clear....it's a man not a brother..right?(yeah)...well that sounds lower

Brother::: Seems like..the verse that "they were dead in their trespasses and sins...we were dead... sounds like they are very similar actually.
ST (whispering) not necessarily...because they're in the same sentence ..why does that make them similar?
Brother:: I assume they were tying them together
ST: Noo...some sort of relationship...but anyway..where do you have caa....commit trespasses? You don't. And anyway...what are you suppose to start with?...faith ...that He's gonna keep you..and not the forever calculating...better forget the calculating...
Chuck M:: He won't give us..he won't give us more than we can handle
ST: yeah....Let's hear some more of what troubles you (silence)...why not agree with God and be at peace?(mumbling) It comes down to the same thing..it's holding out..it's holding out, in fact, that unsettles you, and leads to giving into sin (yeah yes) Now you obey one or the other. Obedience of faith is the only way you obey Jesus...let's hear some more...what you think has to trouble you....((silence))..I should think you'd want to give him glory(((yesss)))) glorify God in your body....tell me some more that you think..the problems you have that trouble you or what..
Paul Saustak:::  well um..i prayed to Jesus and promised Him to hope in Him only and not to hope in this life
ST::really?
Paul S:: yes.....and um..I...and I know I'm one of. Je...I believe I'm one of Jesus'sheep but I'm not sure anymore if I've been born again or not and ah but then I think well..if I ...I have a mind to be able to choose to hope in Jesus so I must be born again but I'm very unconfident to say that....something that I string together in my head
ST: What does the bible say we were born anew to?
Paul S::: A living hope( others say the same)
ST::  A living hope...Is your hope in this life or is it in Him?
Paul S:: It's in Him
ST: okay
Paul: by His grace
ST: Well then..aren't you saying....you're just flat saying you are born anew?
Paul S:: yeah..but I  it's ahh my confidence to say  has been...I'm all over the place
ST: well  now..look I suppose ya know..if you refuse to face the facts...I suppose..you can beat yourself into eggnog((((laughter))) you have to....isn't that crazy? Are you trying to do away with faith altogether or what?
Paul S:: no
ST And His grace and alot of other things..what are you trying to do? You promise to hope in Him only..you say that you notice is that you're hope is in Him...and that's what your born again to in scripture...well now what musta happened?
Paul S:  musta been born again
ST:: my goodness ah look faith......I mean ah you don't see..ah this this with your physical eyes..it is by faith..is is Faith that new to you?
Paul and others: No
ST: well what's the problem..let's hear some more.
Denny D:: I think a whole lot with the brothers, we're looking at our past trespasses  and sins
ST: (frustrated) Hey Forget It..even I don't ..Look...that..ehi.....Come on Look I see something worth working at..and you wanna belly ache over the past..when it's..Listen..you know...all the more, if you consider that your weren't hoping only in Him and and a living hope and so forth..then you can be born anew((thank you Jesus)) You don't have to start over..you start period!(Chuck M..right)  with a clean slate..what ah huh(incredulous, frustrated, half laughing))....Quick Chuckie..what's so terrible?
Chuck M: I don't know I just think ya know what if slip and sin once.I'm not born again...thats thats
ST: oh my goodness(amid laughter) okay..and and to the degree to which you leave faith...over a hundred times...you won't listen to faith...well then you will.... Now look...has root in himself or you don't now which is it?(mumbling..root in himself)) What is the pitiful stuff? That's not gonna work Now are you tired of sin or not((((YEEEEESSSSSS)))) then?.....huh....
Chuck M: provides a way out
ST: A WAY OUT?!((( clamor ..we are out!!)) (mocking) "if I ever sin" ...He just flat told you , you cannot sin...."But I don't believe Him"..is what you just said....
Chuck M:  I'm gonna believe Him
ST: well make up your mind...He's a liar or He isn't
Chuck M:: no He's not

ST: Well make up your mind on a most fundamental issue..salvation....the real way...starting with grace....and proceeding....yeah we had grace and in a vacuum..well this fills the vacuum. Now He said He would keep you. And He said you cannot sin. It is trusting His promise or making up some other story..which is what you'll hear alot..some other story....what was this one now? "That's your new creation, that cannot sin" was going for...remember?(Yess) that umm....in other words ..he was going for the Nicolations and that the passage is meaningless. "don't bother me with this passage." and ahh..it's saying nothing....you understand that or not?(yyess)...why I say that...the passage is meaningless...you look at that passage..Chuckie?

Chuck M:; yeah

ST: Let's hear it people (tapping a knuckle on the table) Let's hear it. Might as well get the eeh..stuff out. Are you tired enough of sin that you're gonna buy what He says and that's it? or((yeah yes))
Sister: I know when I pray, ya know, I know I asked Jesus to forgive me for my sins?
ST: Well why don't you ask the women?
Sister((((difficult to hear her here)))
ST: I guess that was an answer there soo..anyone else? She doesn't know....((mocking)) That sure sounds like commitment to Jesus and glad..and faith...well Jim? when you pray to Jesus now ...do you ask Him to forgive your sins?

Jim Greiner: Hey I'm thankin Jesus that He took my sins away..that they're gone((clamor agreement)) Thank you Jesus!

ST: So we wanna keep up this "forgive my sins" ooohh....you wanna keep the fantasy that you have to sin do you?(((No way..No)) No wonder you have that funny little voice. "I have to sin" Why does the flesh so want " I wanna keep the thing going" " I have to sin"...You don't ..do you believe Him or do you believe yourself...." I don't believe myself" well then don't....ya know, people, ahh..tell me some more...By the way what's the rest of you, do you ask now, do you ask..uuh..those of you that are born anew, do you ask Jesus to forgive your sins?(((nooooo))) What sins? (((right, yeah)...Why didn't you go to the scripture "have no need of repentance..?" And again..sin is giving into..committing sin...or sinning....is giving into the sin which will remain in our members...isn't clear?(weakly..yeah) Dale?
Dale: giving into the sin that
ST: which will remain in our members
Dale: right right
ST: it is going to remain in our members. And if anyone says he has no sin eal  he e iar...He has no sin, he's a liar...ahh and His promise is to keep you from giving into it. That is His promise..now you deny it..or buy it..but there is no in between. Now it doesn't seem possible to the mind(((right right) and then see..you go by..walk not by sight but by faith..can't get out of it..trying to do away with faith huh?
Jim G:(quietly) yep, I think that's the main problem..trying to do away with
ST: can't do it. ya see, in other words, look as soon as there's a change, see the sheep gets all excited
"Oooh I have to be able to keep control, I have to be able to handle it...myyyy word.....then it is on you and not Him....must keep....wella ...let's hear it people..hear yer..the problems....and how the basis is not clear..now you can come up with with this or that...is it hot in here?((yeahhs)))...((noo)) (((Yeass)) Why don't you turn the air on?
Jim G:: Harold?
ST: yeah where's Harold? yeah turn the air on...Hey people come on...let's hear it...Let;s hear it....Let's hear it.."It's too hard for Jesus to keep me from sinning." (((((Noo...not at alll)))) Why won't He let me do it instead...what do you think yer doing? Hey...by not being overjoyed..wait a minute what?
Chuck M:: That would be sin right there..
ST What?
Chuck: if it were Me doing it trying
ST: If you were trying to do it, yes ..if you were trying to do it. Now.again the unstable or the weak will go to "Oh..I just thought..if I tried it. ooh .could that be sin?" Now I'm sinning" Now...have you thought that?(yeah) forget it...that's not committing sin....surrendering to it..is committing sin...There is sin in our members, including your brain. And it's going to stay there..now are you going to give into it or are you by faith....are you sure that He has promised to give you the power that you never sin.?.now that's the question..now let's hear your problems..let's hear it..people!?(snapping fingers). So far we've covered "Should I officially ask Jesus to forgive my sins." Those that are born anew have repented and aren't committing sin..have no need to ask "Forgive my sins" and trespass seems to be some minor.. "forgive us our trespasses." some ...it's not committing sin....but ahh...isn't it usually especially toward each other? It's a total of 3 times...How many is sin?..3000...... Now people..there's no sense winding yourself up ..and you don't need Him at all(((I need Him, desperately))) So, ya know, really, the only thing that's different is you have an added promise from Him....and a chance to start from scratch, if you need to. If you never really did start the real way, you can now. And an extra promise that He'll keep you. and confidence that you're in His real way. that's the only terrible thing that happens. I mean the shock, let's face it, the shock has to be over now(yes) you have to have been looking at it enough...granted nobody's looked at the New Testament enough to see it everywhere, but you will...have you been looking at all?(yeeah) wha what do you see in Romans? Let's hear it. what let's hear it.

Jim Greiner::: well I was readin in Romans, and you see a whole lot about how He keeps you from sin and it's done..and no and umm those that aren't well they're enslaved to it. They don't belong to Him.

ST: If the Son makes you free..how free will you be? (((Totally free...Free indeed))) well why aren't you going to these promises? ((impatient)) Next, people!! Yer not used to going to those promises that's why yer not used to it...."I'm used to going to other things" ooh myyy..can't you write down 2 or 3 promises? Let's hear it. Let's hear it, people, hey ..how's our brother Hilton?

Bernie Epp:: brothers talking to him brothers talking to him

ST:: Thank you Jesus..let's really pray for Hilton(Yeeaas)) Let's really pray for Hilt..anyone else by the way? (John Monk) thank you Jesus( Lou Pelosi) thank you Jesus....now let's hear some more...Let's hear the problems....Let's hear how seriously we take His way...((((veery seriously))) So now..now you've got a new gospel..you were straying from your shepherd and now that you've returned , He won't take you back...now that's yer gospel..huh?((noo, no))...well what is this worry then?

Brother: I was wondering sometimes like I

ST: what?....I can't hear ya....

Brother: there's something I wanna do, i don't wanna do and I'll grumble about it, and I'm wondering if that is sin showing that I'm not born again.

ST: That is the stuff He is talking about that is what is earthly in you,and that's what He's talking about, He's going after all the time, get rid of this grumbling and  and all these things that are in us,,ah,, earthly things..through which you could sin....Therefore get rid of these vehicles...got it?((mumbling))

Brother: Just not choose to go all the way through with it. like I might grumble but then change my mind

ST: That's right and ya stop and put the brakes on and eh "It's not gonna rule me, it's not gonna run me." there's no need to give into it(mumbling..thank you Jesus))) And it doesn't it....TRY IT!!!(((excited clamor))) Op! That's it. If you ever think of grumble or if you ever do any oh..that's it..I'm lost(((yeah ..that's the way we think)  See..that's the trespass area, especially toward a brother or sister. For instance, what ehh, here's another test..if it's sin....where do you see it in the old law? Thou shalt not grumble? There is nothing like that. What relationship does it have? to the Law? Not that we're under law, but but ah..if you need to debate..ooohh mmyyy....See Chuck, by the way , for debate..(laughing)

Chuck M:  no no..someone else

ST:  This whole, this whole area right here is talking about straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel...that is swallowing minus faith...that's ok...I mean ahh..here you're proceeding without faith....but yer debating over well um...this grumble or that thought...that's ahh..that's missin the whole thing isn't it?( mumble  yes). Sin will have no dominion over you...that you don't need to give into it. Now that's His promise. And He promised He would keep you in that, in particular. Now, now there's no way yer gonna get around faith. So , you tell me folks, let's hear it. Without faith it's impossible to please Him. Listen aah...again , He gets glory by by eh...boasting of Him and His power and your faith in him and His power.....and how it's based on His promise and how it's working in you, and working in all your brothers and sisters..now tell me some more

Brother: I was thinking about..

ST: that looks like a problem

Brother: About 6, 6 weeks ago I was speaking to my cousin Ricky on the phone and um..that's when we had had recently heard how my sins are actually forgiven and gone

ST: Yep

Brother: And I was telling him about that and he asked me "You mean you don't sin anymore?" And I said "well yeah I do but I don't live for it..." and he asked me...

ST: It's 2 different things remember..."He has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.." and the power of sin itself
Brother: well again he asked me was "...what what sins do you do?" And I started thinking about it ...and it took me awhile to
even thinking of anything I was

ST: you're suppose to say..."Yeah I have to sin..I can't help it...yeah...othwerwise you're conceited(right) otherwise you're proud( yeah) okay well...

Brother: Thing was that it took me awhile to even go to anything ,,,i went to something all it was was  sin on my members.and sometimes I stare at..and that's all I went to, I just thought about that now, he asked me what sin?and to prove it..and i couldn't come up with anything

ST: ahh you gotta understand we are no longer responsible for sin in our members( mumbling...thank you Jesus)

Brother: (quietly) I'm glad to be a disciple of Jesus

ST: I can't hear you

Brother:  I'm glad to be a disciple of Jesus

ST: Thank You Jesus...me too....(thank you Jesus)..and His child..God's child...It really is..a new and different life.well that's what yer...that's why yer wailing...it really is a new life and and ahh take hold of this life and all the more you'll know something really happened..only this time it's not " I know something happened"...it's according to His word and PROMISE DIRECTLY..where the whole thing makes sense... Yeah I don't think ehh..yeah you gotta realize it takes a while for the the significance of it all to ahh grow on you...it's all right...tell me some more problems....Yeah .we're suppose to think..."I have to sin"...can't help it....and the flesh wants to be able to do that anyway..and will give into it to make provision what was the reference to that?...um  remember?

Brother: without using your freedom as a pretext for the flesh?

ST: yeah but there was another reference

Brother: make no provisons for the flesh to gratify it's desires

Jim G: put on the Lord Jesus

ST: that's one but I just thought of another..it doesn't matter....now people let's hear it...It's His power and His promise and He keeps it....

Brother: He does keep His promise..3 and a half months ago..like I was in and out.for 3 1/2 months.til  Blake called me up and started talking about God's grace, and I thought, " this I can handle, I can handle God's grace." I came back and by His grace I'm staying in His grace and don't sin..there's nothing that overtakes me..just tempted to grumble sometimes((laughing))

ST: Now let's hear it..you know the difference between..between ahh......giving into and letting it reign...you know the difference ...the brothers know the difference well between giving into looking lustfully or temptation..you know the difference((yeah yes) What eh....and you also..WHAT YOU OUGHT TO BE STARING AT....is things such as....well where do you want your hope? What hope do you count? And and ah..How much do you love Jesus and want to glorify Him and are thankful to Him..etc..stare at these things... and your confidence will rise..and His promises concerning it...what else?...let's hear it people..

Brother: amazing hope of promise..that God promised to keep you  from sin

ST: that's right((Thank you Jesus))..I don't have to do it..that's the big one...((thank you Jesus)) the power is His..by His grace..it isn't on me...not at all....those feelings see...why aren't you fellowshipping about it more?..and you'll understand it alot better...Let's hear it
Paul..what's yer problem?

Paul Blottner: I think alot..seen sin in my members and see myself.....
ST: That's right there..see that...
Paul B: yeah... just well
ST: in other words you insist on staring at that for which you know we are no longer responsible
Jim G:: break up the bad habits

ST: YEAH NOW...You're right..Now you're getting to the real issue....Is that pleasing to Him?((YEEES)))...That's what alot of the New Testament is about ..it is that very thing..that He's saying "break up these habits"..that's a good expression...These habits that can..if you let them go..now um....we have the power..are you gonna use it or not?(mumbling yeah yes) Hey..ah nobody's too sure huh?((YEESS)))....tell me some more...Somehow..previosuly you had a vague feeling, that it's on you not to sin(YES)..now you have a promise from Him to keep you from it..and you're worried(weak ..no) that's what it comes down to ..."Hey I can't go trusting this ahh...Jesus...I gotta do this..but huh....hey this is crazy"..let's hear it....how can you do it? There's no way to get around faith....noe let's hear some more..Imagine.. we're able to start with Jesus , if we need to we're able to start with a clean slate and stay...abide in Him...what's wrong with that?(((thank you Jesus, praise God)))..with more guarantee that He'll keep us....another thing..you know a good reference..I'll tell ya a good one....the word "distinct"....where is it in the old testament.."Oh Lord, if thou do not keep us, so that we will not be distinct from the people but...is it not in being distinct..that we are ahh....what is that?....How else are we distinct? what does Holy mean? It means separate different, distinct..that there's a difference....Well we're just the same as ordinary men...we have to give into sin all the time...((no)) Now it's His will that we should be that..so He provides everything we need for it. now let's hear some more...
Brother: when  Jesus spoke..
ST: ya know in a week or so . you'll think this is crazy....to ah,, that I gotta talk to you like this....wait and see...you don't get the point ?((yes)...in a week you'll think it's crazy..maybe at the brothers meeting Wednesday..that ahh..."what were we so worried about?" WHAT'S SOO DIFFERENT?..except that you have an extra promise and you can forget about starting over every week((thank you Jesus))if that's been... Let's hear it....

Brother: Jesus spoke to us the other day, He said 'there's no reason to fear, do not worry about the present circumstances, I have you in the palm of My hand.'
ST: Thank you Jesus.......you like to look at yourself as you have to sin((no )..you respect that ? you value that?((NNNOO)))..you're not glad that you can forget it?(((YYYYYEESSSS, glad very glad)))).okay yeah but now i gotta hold my breath(((nono)))) that's the attitude.....want to go back to a life of being close to Him...((yeah))..on His basis...now let's hear some more..10 of 10 already?!(9:50PM)...let's hear some more...

Brother: really seems like it's too good to be true

ST: how many of you consider yourself to be one of His Sheep? all right....You forget what He said then...what'd say? "No one shall snatch you"....and.." I give my sheep eternal life." You just said you have eternal life...now whether it's in your mind, the official transaction "I prayed....I didn't do this right or that", all this stuff..What did He say He'd do with His sheep?(((Give us eternal life))) what did you just say you are(((his sheep))...alright ..let's hear the next worry...."Cuz I can't figure it out and handle it."..... next problem..."Oh I don't want Him to give me eternal life this way, I want Him to give me eternal life this way."
ok next....He may be one step ahead of you((laughter))...see now what you need to do, what you need to do..hey forget the whole thing, what you need to do is do 25 years like I did how's that?((NOOOO laughter, clamor))) that's what you need... you're asking for it..allright..ok..you're not willing to quit right now(((II AMMM)))... Now I'll tell you the thing, if you do 25 years the way I did, you will appreciate the real thing....now...is there a lack of appreciation here?(((NNNOOOO)))....so  you could remain just a sheep for 25 years....Ya know, that's consciously what the emperor Constantine did, consciously waited til he was on his death bed, and must be from this, he knew he was dying and then he wanted to be baptized, he refused to be baptized until that time.."Cuz I might sin"...he was already getting that all that stuff...it was not faith in His power, His grace, you can read it in his words..The emperor Constantine, the year 325, Eusibius...same time as Eusibius...now..now let's hear it....yep yep...you insist that He give you eternal life the way you got it all figured out right right...you got the patents on eternal life, you know how to work it..huh?(((NO))Hahh  soo in the anxiety, you're gonna wipe out faith all together...now let's hear some more problems..... I'd think you'd be glad that there would be a distinct division, ehh, distinct clear way ahh path((yeah yes))..which is wide open to ya...including everything that He's been doing for 6 months..He didn't need your anxiety to do it ya know..He's doing just fine..now...ooohh.....What's He been doing lately folks?(((ALot...GRace..)))..well I tell ya come around in 25 years and you'll appreciate the real way then...and you'll be glad to surrender and accept it...of course you could get smart now(((GET SMART NOW)) telll me some more ..we didn't even get into the notes...we're just doing this reassuring stuff....pretty ridiculous....in a week ..wait and see...or even the brothers meeting wait and see...Let's hear some more problems now ..why Jesus isn't gonna save you..let's hear it....That's what this is called....it IS..."Jesus isn't gonna save me."(mocking) Let's hear it...man..what happened to all the problems?....(((Jesus saved me, Jesus took them all away)))You know...you wanna hear the ahh, I mean I didn't touch the notes at all but...ya know what we gotta do? There's another one of course, you don't have this one written out, Now how fast can I get this really perfectly written out, because THIS IS IT!!! what do you think? (((YEEESS))) what do we need clearly written out?((This , right away , immediately))) and it is, now  Gayle?...Gayle's the great writer and theologian , (light laughter)) well  Gayle how clear is it to you, let's hear from Gayle now.....she didn't know about this, same time as you, exact same thing(((pounding the table)) okay let's hear it Gayle...
Gayle: well
ST: well ((laughter))

Gayle:: well I'm not a great theologian but in my , in what I've been looking at in the New Testament and trying to make sense of it, this does make sense, I mean it's so

ST: ((mocking)) OH well then I would have to change my brainOhh(((laughter)

Gayle: I think the biggest thing  that I need to change in my brain is that I always...my understanding that any any less than perfect equals sin..

ST: That's not true...that that again..sin ah  looking at sin in our members..no way..no way..what is perfect in His sight. Perfect in His sight cannot include no sin in your members..How can you?

Gayle: I know  I've I''ve seen like in a Christian tract I read once on repentance, the sin of  oh omission, just because you should have been doing more and you weren't, that's sin and the idea is that sin is is  running us ya know constant something
ST: Do you think you can recover and get rid of it people?((YEEESSSS))))..why can't you just really start over, the brain, the sin of omission...

END OF TAPE 3 SIDE 2
 

BEGINNING OF TAPE4

ST:.alright yeah now in the case of someone who who you know you must do something and you refuse to do it..well that's another matter..that's just disobedience

Gayle: (quietly) I don't think that's all he....
Paul S: He ..he had a big list of things
ST:: well now ...many huh?
Gayle: maybe I remember wrongly, but I ..yeah
Paul S: yeah..same tract I read
ST: ah.........sin of omission?!......my goodness..
Paul S: I think it was called true and false repentance

ST: in other words, in other words..omission...that is not something..is reigning in your members. You are obeying not something(laughter..mumbling..."come on")) If it's disobedience..that's another matter, but ah omission, you can forever say "You shoulda this, you shoulda that."...and "you shouldn't eat your supper"..or you should give it to a poor person(mumbling right)) and you could go on and on like that, and unstable people will....and that's all it is, and it's avoiding faith. it's not the obedience of faith. It's trying to have a list of rules. Hey, there's no way around it, Faith, it must be through faith. Now let's hear some more problems ...............real or suppo....186...came for a Sunday meeting? Thank you Jesus!(Thank you Jesus) Thank you Jesus! Let's hear it people....hah  Here in his mercy, far better than ever He shows us His way...Now He shows us His way, go through all this...only to..only so you can't be saved ?( weak no) well that's what yer saying again... face it.  Let's hear some more... That's what the that's what the anxious and the ...."I don't want to commit myself to something that isn't gonna work." How's that?...........................

Brother: Thats called cutting your own throat

ST: well..yeah but stirring up anxiety over it.....instead of going ahead by faith....So He told you to do something you can't do huh? Directly...Twice huh?( weak no) well, you better make up you mind who Jesus is....He's faithful......let's hear it Come on it's 10 o' clock..Do we have to worry or why can't we just forget about it((((Nooooo, clamor))) man you wait a week from now and you'll laugh at this...You wait and see, a week from now, you'll really laugh at it(thank you Jesus))..let's hear some more.

Gayle: I know when I consider the New Testament and everything I have read, now when I think of trying to put back in there that  yeah Christians still sin, I mean it was so hard to find it in there anyway, now the thought of like, you really have to ramm it in there Hah ha

ST: Say it again Gayle

Gayle: The whole New Testament,  I was, I wasn't looking at it from this point of view, but of trying to, well  wha what do you do with the Christian if they sin? ya know, what's the story there,and it's like it's not there.

ST: it is not, (Gayle laughing)) ya hear that?IT IS NOT THERE ((not there))PERIOD
Gayle: Everyone that even sorta look...
ST: See you gotta invent it, quick..cuz it gotta  to be there
Gayle: Everyone that even sort of looks it, when I was working on the Repentance Workbook, for instance, everyone that even sort of looks like Chrisitan sin it it quite ea --- I couldn't even  kind of easily explain that it's well they haven't reached repentance, they weren't Christians yet, just among the brethren, ya know, and and it's just not there hah! And Now to go back and try to ram in that they can sin again after you are Christian, it's like, it isn't in there

ST:(emphatic) It is NOT and FLAT the opposite is.(right right)

Gayle: It does feel unreligious or something unright to say "I'm never gonna sin again." but I

ST: by faith I'm never gonna sin again ...whada ya mean it feels unreligious.(mumvbling).it's .it's the truth..it's His promise(angry) Anything less is calling Him weak, liar, or something( right, right) anything else! And also Paul , of course, come to yer ..he's crazy too, "come to your minds and sin no more"....He's crazy too.right ?..(right) and John of course...you've been reading him today. John , Paul...pretty soon you'll be done with the whole bible...and you're back where you started ...hear some more..let's hear it...

Brother: Paul said "who was made to fall and I am not indignant"

ST: yeah...let's hear some more..of your problems...it's the only way the New Testament makes sense. Now, this is ah...well all right..I bail..bear with the failings of the weak, however, for 25 years I never really saw anything worth pushing and all people gladly go along. Now I see the real thing, and I push it and everybody "Oh..I don't know, is this real?"((laughter and silence then clamor.."it's real"))) We'll have to go over it again..WHAT DID JESUS PROMISE? And what did He tell us to do?((sin no more, clamor)) (Stew in a condescending tone) and don't you have to be very very good to go to Heaven((that's right, yes))) well all right then..let's hear the rest

Bob Whipple:: it is by God's grace I 've been, Jesus' grace, by faith I'm th---

ST: there is no other way, ya know.. yer trying to forget grace and faith now...huh..lurch from one to the other? Well anyway..He got me ready for this too..at least to me..it's funny..to even think of worrying about it. It's very clear and I am very thankful, that isn't the word..I actually am...I don't get it...that ahh...well allright....ahh You're ahh You're too set in your ways((nooo))apparently that's... you get habits...I tell ya 15 years ago..I stretch easy.. ya know .but ahh....You're not a true inventor huh? You can't You can't change...huh?((yeah..)) in other words you're not a fl. you're not glad to find a better way huh?((YES)) and ahh you can't buy it. You see something better, you're not willing to sell everything and and this is the one here, this is the one and welcen(clamor))...You'll have to keep going over it. Now what did Jesus tell us that we should do? (((SIN NO MORE))) What did He promise about it?(((THAT HE WOULD KEEP US)) Is Jesus worth trusting?(((YESS)) okay....let's see what do you do with that?((to himself))........"he who is born of God keeps him and the evil one cannot touch him.".....(to everyone)) Now you don't wanna hear that..the evil one cannot touch him...that's the problem ..it's is...you don't wanna hear it...the evil one cannot touch him...that is put an angel, the angel  guards around him....man whose sin is not reckoned against him..Psalm 32.....Let's hear it...

Brother: Is that um..is that the same thing as, when John wrote.." I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one."?

ST:: I still wonder if that's physical or figurative...young man and fathers and so forth..I'm not sure of that..but what about it?

Brother:::Is that coming from the same place also?
ST: I don't understand...I'm not sure if it's physical or figurative that fathers and young men..same place... of what?
Brother: As As um..Jesus keeping you from sin
ST:: (to those close by)) which one is he talking about?(to everyone)) You have overcome the evil one? Yeah..right..is it coming from.?...either I'm not sure ..remember the elect lady?(yeah) is that a church or is that ah is that A physical woman? I'm not sure. I think there's a controversy over it anyway....

Gayle: John later said it's our faith that overcomes......anyway so..he must be coming from something of the same place...
ST: sure....somehow it is...but first things first....Let's hear it people....(quietly...Thank you Jesus))...Yes and you gotta come to understand better the ahh.......learn to sort out the difference between your interests and hope...hoping in...anytime you're into something it's called "hoping in"...automatically(yeah right)) but ahh...that's wrong....Now ahh.."who ever that does not renounce all that he has, his plan, everything.....that they're up to Jesus.....Now you want Him sorting out all the pieces of your life or would you rather do it yourself((LETTING HIM SORTING CLAMOR))..well then you do it yourself, if yer secretly planning to do it yourself....or you really want him doing it, and you ask him to do it...you judge yourself. You can tell if you're hoping in secret empire here of some sort or whether it's up to Him,,,Now really Hey hah.. 10 after 10  folks... (10:10PM)(pounding table, acting tired)) do we have anymore of this that...we can at least get the simple basics.....

Gayle: remember how when we were studying predestination verses... our behavior thing how future sins ..that sounded soo horrible, ya know , we were rejecting that even then

ST: Hey what is this baptist, this eternal ahh "my sins, past, present, and future sins!!?"" Remember? what is that thing? for eternal ..what is that? the future sins....(mumbling) Hey listen..you know what...I wonder how much  this concept of future sins......there is a test! There is a Big one!!...Do christians talk of such a thing?((YESS,,all the time))) Hey that is horrible, that is that is..well first of all, they're not God's children.....

Brother: there's a bumper sticker that says that " Christians aren't perfect just forgiven."

ST: okay certainly..Paul said " I do not count myself as perfect." there's a sense in which we're not perfect, and there's a sense in which we are
Bob Whipple: There are alot of Christians that push " I'm gonna sin, I'm gonna sin."

ST: HEY THAT IS ALL WRONG AND THAT...I see something worth working at...THAT IS IT!!...That's all wrong..
Bob: I agree
Brother: It's in the 4th lesson of the Lamb Course
Paul S: yes it is
Brother: Past Present and future sins
ST: uugh...Hey listen..i don't defend anything back...what is it..3 months ago..that's it anything....wouldn't be surprised what I hear now...(laughing))
Gayle:: (quietly)) the restoration of Christians
ST: The Restoration of Christians by the way....well wait a minute...it's in there too? oooh nooo((laughing))
Jim Greiner: Thank you Jesus for a better way(((Clamor and laughter))

ST: there is no such thing ever of a christian sinning FLAT PERIOD..John didn't wanna hear it. There is no such thing as a christian sinning, not in the Bible...you have to make it up....Now what are we gonna stand on?( God's word, Jesus' promises)))
Now let's see if you think this way..."Well, it's not up to me...It's Jesus' responsibility, He said it so He has to do it.((Yeah Yes)) Did He say He would keep you?((YESS)) Well then ..He will make a way, you will have no temptation such that you are not able to have a way out of it..what else? But it's gonna have to be His way..the way that He gets glory out of it...what is this future sin?! making provision..I had always wondered....(whispering) my goodness!....I'm thankful for a a clear standard, the standard of teaching( me too))..Now let's hear it people...didn't even go over all the ahh...there is an awful lot more just in simple stating...Let's hear the rest , people....

Jim Greiner: Hey thank you Jesus...no more fudging with those verses((yeaaaaaahh, thank you Jesus....if the son makes you free you will be free indeed, thank you Jesus)))

ST: "Well , except for my future sins"((laughter...NOOOO....alll gone..no way...what sin?))) According to His promise..it is impossible for Christians to sin( thank you Jesus) He cannot sin! Now granted that's not popular, it's not even familar, Tough Luck! I'm an archeologist. It's there....Now you try a week from now, you you think....that "How did I ever have any other view of the New Testament? We didn't even go through this whole....there's a hundred file cards on the "Disciple"....to Saints and the pattern hah..... The Upward Call....and the being changed from one degree of glory to another....absolute...sin is only in the sheep.....and never again.....and How that thinking is assumed...and Off-hand statements such as "Come to your right mind and sin no more."......Well it is somewhere else. Jesus , twice in John saying."do not sin again".....It really is all over...People ahh.....somehow that turned into.."Christians inevidibly sin"........................................Well I would suppose if by Wednesday...maybe your right minds will be developing....(weak yes)) Not that yer sinning but that you'll understand. That He has promised to keep us and that the evil one cannot touch us. Now you change it into your form, but that's the original. You form so that you can, you can ...feed your fantasy that you're lord, that's what it comes down to if you do. or He's Lord....Let's hear it people ....I think that's amazing((((I do tooo))))....He has started this. The Spirit of Jesus Christ has revealed to me.....The Spirit of the New Testament, the mind of the apostles , the basis of making everything in the New Testament make sense. That...that statement right there........that's an amazing statement and you'll hear alot about it.....it'll come back in different forms. huh ya know what I mean?(mumbling yes)............But the plain fact is He did..and you're minds are the witness........................................(((((silence)))).........(smiling)huh.the more confident you get in the truth, the more enemies you're gonna make too!((purposeful laughing)) (laughing..that's right...Jesus said so)))..But...God may perhaps grant that some of them will repent..and come to know the truth....These are ones selling false things by the way, the specific context of that....such as "Christians haaave to siiin, ((mocking)) "In my church we believe that."....in a week you try that....Brothers and sisters it's getting late...what do ya think?(thank you Jesus) you all ready to pray together((yes))

TAPE IS TURNED OFF FOR PRAYER AND THEN TURNED ON AGAIN.

All the persecutions of early christians..the whole thing was to try to get christians to sin((yeah yes) Was it not? (((YESSS)) If the spirit of Antichrist doesn't hate you, somethings wrong.  If..if the world doesn't hate you and false teachers etc...if they don't hate you.....how come?And if they do hate you...it is because ..you are not of the world....that is distinct....there's only one way..sin... They're jealous...what else? We in fact thast ah...not frightened of anything in your opponents. It is an omen of their destruction and your salvation. Now you must be united in the truth and insisting on it. And that's part of His will. And if you aren't, you're just fudging around. If He didn't promise it then don't insist on it. But if He did then you must insist on it.(that's right ,,yeah) And those who know that they are going to continue in sin, will hate you. No? ((YESSS))...and why do they continue in sin?(((clamor))) You follow it through in first John...etc.. and Remember....do such a thing in a wrong spirit is really wrong. It's of no value then....There's no way I'm good and you're bad...no way.....You read these these ahh scriptures...clear omen of what's coming....It is working in us! Why are they on the outside, because they choose to be. that's what it means to be united ahh side by side and so forth Otherwise, what is there to hate?What's different? So anyway 10:30....obviously you don't want people hating you...but ah "Blessed are you, when they hate you for His name sake , for the truth, when it really is that. But on the other hand, if it's the right thing an awful lot will listen too! they'll see somehting really different. (mocking) Tell me some more about yer wittle problems about how it's just too hard, you should keep-----.((NOOOO , not too hard)) Can you believe you did that? an hour ago? people maybe you need a good sleep(((yesss)))) And you get up tomorrow and the first thing you say is (((THAAANNNNNKKK  YOOOOOUUU JEEEEEEESSSSUUUUUSSSS))))(((LAUGHTER))) and for what in particular?(((((MY SINS ARE GONE, HE CAN KEEP ME FROM SINNING)))....thank you Jesus

Brother: Brother Stewart?...Last September this brother that helped me return to Jesus, he was telling me how he didn't sin
ST: see? Helped you returned to Jesus?! Go ahead
Brother: He was telling me how he didn't sin and like i didn't understand that, what he was saying, but he was talking to me in the same sense like i didn't understand, cuz it was the first time i ever heard it.
ST: okay...maybe it's the right spirit, maybe it's it's ahh..all the truth , i hope.......See if you can find him....
Brother: I got his number, I'm gonna give him a call.

ST: the truth is Christians never nver sin ...period!And it isn't because they shout and scream and boast...huh nothing to do with it...and if it is that, that right away sounds suspicious(yep yeah) but the plain fact is...ne the chri, real chris, christians, never say real christians...there's no such thing...there's christians and non-christians..that's the end of it....and well ya know, you cannot sin....Because Jesus said He would, told them.....okay people it's 10:30 what do ya think?(((Thank you Jesus)) I'm thankful fir this meeting(((((THANK YOU JESUS))) Lord willing...I'll see you brothers..on Wednesday night(((YESSS...praise God...meeting break up)))))
END OF TAPE 4....END OF THE ENTIRE 1 JOHN 1989 MEETING