From:  Owen
        Dear Folks,
       Some e-mail cause me to think about what it would be like if I moved back in.  Assuming I did [impossible] and assuming they let me [unlikely] here is a conversation/lecture that I'd be on the receiving end of within a few weeks:

        "Well brother Owen we all have been noticing that you've been acting rather strange.  I mean you're talking about grace and God's love and quoting scriptures about it (Ps 118:4[let those who fear the LORD say 'his steadfast love endures forever'] & 22:23 [you who fear the LORD praise him]).  For instance when sister so-and-so said she was in big trouble you tried to encourage her, but when brother Stewart said he was in big trouble you shouted "amen!".  And another thing when anybody says "Stewart says" you ask for scripture, and when anybody quotes scripture you ask to see it in context.  None of us has ever even heard of context.  And then when someone gives a really plain scripture that doesn't need context you ask "how do we define 'abundance of counselors'?".  And when someone asks "are we in a right spirit to pray?", you jump up and ask where in the Bible does it say that we need a certain spirit to pray.  You've pestered us so much that we hardly ask that anymore.  And every time we have a Bible study, you mention Calvin, or Luther, or somebody and then you suggest we look in commentaries! .  Like we don't have Stewart's teaching.
        "Also you're always asking to be excused so you can be ready for work tomorrow.  You left the last meeting at midnight, and we were only halfway through.  And when I recounted the meeting to you, you just said "is that all?  You spent 4 hours on that?".  And besides that you moved in __ weeks ago and you're still working for pharaoh.  Quit that phone company already.  Who cares about a pension and health insurance, just walk by faith.  You're home by five and you read these newspapers and magazines when you could be helping at the store or with the business.  Then you have these outside interests.  If you worked with the brothers you'd have good Christian fellowship all day long; from your morning carpet job to your two hours in the store after ten.  And what is this talk we hear about you planning to take a vacation??  What are you thinking?
        "When we mentioned marriage seminars you expressed real interest, but then you asked a lot of questions like "how do you define 'spare zeal'? and where do you find that in scripture? etc.".  Then you act like you are capable of taking a wife.  Did you speak to Stewart?  Are you trusted by the brothers?  You sure act presumptuously!
        "And another thing when we have divisions you always ask "how do I  know how so-and-so is doing?  I haven't spoke to him".  If you helped out at the store after work and on weekends and holidays you might meet these brothers and know how they're doing.  And WHY every time someone is voted into the trip box category do you always suggest that we pray for them???
        "And when Stewart's around you get testy.  You asked him whose "threefold cord" he was in.  When he told about his airplane trip you asked if he had the Board's permission to fly the church plane!  What were you thinking?  Then we hear that you're always asking about church finances, and you wanted to see the church budget.  And then you keep suggesting all these physical things like painting the hallway, fixing a window, or even putting a stronger light bulb (75 watt) in the meeting room.  Where are you at?
        "Then remember that meeting that started three hours late, and you got everybody to promise to start on time next week?  Then when we started on time, you had the nerve  to ask Stewart why he was late!  And when we ask you something you always say that you have a clear conscience.
        "That's NOT how we do things around here.  You've been in the world for 11 years and you've picked up some really bad habits!  It's like you've got this independent streak.  Stewart said that you've conformed to the world for so long that it's going to be hard for you to retrain.  But we're going to try because we care about you and we want you to fear God the way we do.  You've got to forget this figuring everything out and asking all these questions and instead just walk by faith.  Now quit your job and use your talents for God's glory."

                    And by my Lord I'll get there
         Owen Camp    Bronx NY
From: Herman M Weiss <>

Hi Owen, well said & revealing of their game.
Herm Weiss
From: Beverly Diehl <>

Owen D Camp wrote:

ROFLOL - makes me (almost) wish you WOULD move back in!  And that
I could be a fly on the wall to sees their shocked faces!

Owen, you do go on!  ROFLOL for your inability to be retrained, bro. !!!
Nancy C.
And now why I'd never go back...... as I mentioned a week ago, I spent last weekend at Space Camp with my son in Huntsville, AL.  Earlier today I attended a car wash fund raiser for a local high school girls cheerleaders,  I am soon to leave for a Cincinnati Reds baseball game (hey...there aren't many options here in KY, sure I'd rather go to the Mets),  I recently returned to college full time (we know that was a no-no), I have my own bank account (share with husband), working on owning our own home (mortgage..), lets see.....  I'm not used to being insulted on a daily basis (its down to weekly now.. <smile, meant to be a joke>,  Tomorrow I will wake up and drive to Glades Christian Church in Berea, because I want to, not because I wake up and live there!, and because my son will share in a special service for fathers day.  Hmmm  theres something we were taught in COBU "honor thy parents"... yea right...

It boggles my mind how anyone could "go back"!   And now I have 11 min till count down...   By the way, ever wonder where the saying came from ...  The ______ hit the fan!  Well, I know.. its one of the fun facts I learned with my son in space camp....  had us all laughing for a time.   Oops... couldn't do that in COBU either..... "YOU ARE NOT BEING SERIOUS"...     If you want to know where it came from let me know... I'm running late now...... later...

Love life and live,
Carol Stutts
From: Jeff Benninger <>

pretty good owen but you forget that we did ten weeks about luther and
calvin and all the history and how everyone somehow missed the mark about
god and the church or perhaps you left before the heresy really got thick.

Jeff Benninger

Hi Jeff, could you elaborate?  You mean IN the Fellowship you studied
famous historical Christians, and ST (the Superior) got to cut them to
shreds before his adoring fans?  Nancy C.
From: Jeff Benninger <>

yeah maybe the tapes are somewhere but right after his great confession we
began to embark on a whole bunch of meetings on church history and we went
through calvinism, and luther and presbyterians, and armenianism and some of
the early church doctrines and he found faults with each one , he even
found fault with Paul as he is stated in the Bible and one meeting he even
told us how Jesus missed the mark. See this was all in his great teaching
about the U plan of God or whatever it was called . have you seen it on the
cbu haiti website , see in that teaching jesus was grace , but grace was at
the bottom of that U.
According to the teaching then Gods whole plan for man was in that U and
Jesus was only part of that plan  and not the whole of Gods plan for our
salvation. Mercy was half way down the first half of the U . But god said
"i will have mercy on whom i have mercy. So there fore you had to prove
yourself worthy of his mercy in order to receive it and you did this by
your behavior and all this tied in with the reason that we were
deceiving people by preaching salvation because Gods sheep were already
chosen and we had no say only by your actions did we show that we wanted gods
mercy. Jesus didn't have a whole lot to do with the doctrine and i figure
he missed the mark by saying that you had to be born again since according
to stewart there was no such thing and he would tell us all about the greek
, and what some words meant ,  and into regeneration and not born again
and the r was a difference between sinning and sin and sins . According to
such verses who is born of God no longer commits sin. But we do commit
sins although we are born again, and you always had to be aware of which
state you were in if you committed sins you could be on the right path , but
if you were a sinner and committed sin you weren't one of gods chosen yet.
enough for now just put that in your blender and drink it . Tastes a little
funny to say the least> If you make heads or tails out of it let me know i
never did yet.

Jeff B

By the way all the stuff about the false teachings of the early fathers and
how they missed the mark. According to stewart that was Gayles study and i
even think she presented it to us .
There was a period, where ST was "looking for answers"  (not really -
in 20/20 hindsight)  After the grace meeting, all prior teaching from him
was on a wrong basis, and therefore wrong - from the horse's mouth.
We needed to rebuild.
This was about the "funniest" time (1989) doctrinally I had.
ST had us debate about Armenianism vs Calvinism.  All week we
we spoke with one another - predestination or free will - giving our
reasons why we thought either, and at the meeting on Sunday we
would "compare notes"
That's pretty much it.  Feel free to add to the answer to the question posed
to you, Jeff.
Also, part of ST's "bait and switch" and pulling the rug and pulling the wool

and everything else - one week he had us talking with one another trying
to figure out what the gospel was.  Yes, you heard right.  Was the gospel
'Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead?'  Was the gospel like the
presentation Stephen gave before being stoned - therefore - some kind of
On the way to the meeting that Sunday, I was going on verses with
Vinnie who had a computer printout with him on the bus.
When the question was posed at the meeting I stood up and said
that "I don't know what the gospel is, but it was preached beforehand to
Abraham, so whatever it is, it existed before Jesus came"  and sat
down.  No one else spoke, and ST went into the "study".  Rarely would
he do that.  But I guess he heard the magic words "I don't know what
the gospel is" - and I believe that's what he was after.  Just my opinion.
ANd on an "up" note.  I prayed a year or so later, "Jesus, what is the
gospel?"  And I thought, no way is this prayer going to be answered.
In the next couple days he gave me two verses - the one in Job where
it says "I sinned and perverted what was right, and it was not requited
to me" and then at the store, John D said Vinnie (there's that name again)
spoke to him about some Spurgeon or something and the gospel is
like Rom 4 where it says  something like "He declares the guilty to
be innocent"  words to that effect.  That's the gospel, and the righteousness
of God.  You give me your sins - I'll give you my righteousness.  Our
righteousness is imputed.
From: Herman M Weiss <>

Hi Jeff, what this about studying Luther & Calvin? IN COBU, surely you
jest!!! Please
elaborate on this.
Herm Weiss
From: Jeff Benninger <>

read previous e mails above by me and tom pierron i couldn't repeat it ,
without cheating and looking back sort of confusing never did get to a
definite point but according to ST most of the writers of the gospel (PAUL
also, come to think of it that is just how a totalitarian government takes
over and rewrites history.  Seriously I begin to think was a communist at
heart, i wonder if he was with Clinton in Moscow protesting the USA
wouldn't doubt it.

Jeff B.