From: Herman M Weiss <hmweiss@juno.com>

>From Herm Weiss
Hi Doris & Brethren, Yes I did at about 8 or 9 pm- ish. As to who
was there :
1) I met Reggie Smith, his wife, & 2 children in the parking lot & we
spoke for
about 10 min. They asked why was I here for, & I really wasn't sure
except after
21yrs. of being out of there, I wanted to see what it was like. I felt
like a veteran of
some horrible war revisiting the battlefields. Also later, another reason
came to
mind, sometimes I get on the onelist & see messages  about things that
happened
in the last 10 yrs.,  which I think are unbelievable, like the gunpowder,
bathing beauty
contest, brethren standing up saying, " I'm volunteering for the lake of
fire" & "I hate
Jesus & my life shows it. So I wanted to see for myself. Lastly I wanted
to see how
I would react emotionally & whether they had a handle on me yet. Anyway
Reggae's
wife kept asking, " Do you fear God" & even after I gave her an answer,
she kept
asking like she was programmed. When I mentioned anything about ST's
conduct
she scolded me, "how dare I in front of the children. In the meantime
Reggae's was
on the phone getting instructions on where to take me.
2) Reggae's took me to the kitchen, not bad looking, anyone want
to take a
guided tour? Plan your vacation around it, NOT!, & started talking to me;
we chit-chatted awhile about family & what I'm doing, ya know normal
conversation,when
another person walked in & changed the subject to the fear of God ( point
1 of the
escape recipe) he hammered this point & made it sound like the rest of
the church
never heard of it. I pointed out that John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress
in the beginning of the book talked about Christian's burden (his
conviction by the Holy Spirit JN. 16:8) & that he wrote this more than
300 yrs. ago, so it's nothing new.This they dismissed
& went back to hammering "the fear of God & whether I believed it or not.
I answered
"that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" but this made no
impression
on them. I noticed that one of them went to talk on a phone while the
others kept
me busy, & then a man & shortly after a woman came in the kitchen, the
woman
claimed to be in my squad in Brooklyn & Staten Island in christian bros.
carpet
cleaning in '77, '78. She asked why I'm here? when I told her she said,
"nostalgia
was of the flesh & I should look to Jesus" in a condescending way.
3) Joe Techlis comes in, I tried to have a normal conversation
with him
About his football tryout in the NFL & the NFL draft, but that's playing
games & avoiding the real issues. He only wanted to talk to me about ,
YOU GUESSED IT,
THE FEAR OF GOD. So I turned the tables & asked about ST's fear of God,
to which
they became very indignant, to them ST can do no wrong, you'll only
receive abuse
if you mention any of ST's offenses. I was told I was losing my mind.
When I  asked about the sister who was required to stand up & say, " I
hate Jesus " because my
life says so, they avoided answering the question. Again someone goes the
phone
while others hammer me, you can't be saved, your just playing games, you
have
no fear of God, etc.
4) A woman walks in & immediately starts hammering away, Herman,
you're volunteering for the lake of fire, you're mad, you need to stop
playing games.
So I gave them what they wanted, I began to hold the escape recipe over
my head
& twirl about, shouting I'm volunteering for the lake of fire & I hate
Jesus & my life
shows it just to show how absurd it has become. they didn't get it!!!
The woman said, "this proves your mad" & your volunteering for the lake
of fire;
You must keep quiet or else you must leave. I asked, "who are you". She
answered
Joe's wife, I was surprised by that seeing Joe sitting there all along.
When I asked,
"who in charge here," she got angry & said, "we warned you, you must
leave. So
the men escorted me out of the compound. AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !!!!
tHANK YOU
  JESUS
PS:They also seem to be quite proud of the ESCAPE RECIPE tract  & asked
while I was there if I could find anything wrong with it, not like they
really want my opinion, but
just ammo. I'm going to try to find the poison in the recipe to help
other victims to
avoid it. Does anyone want to help & be like brother Cadfile on PBS?

======================================================================
On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:32:03 -0400 dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini) writes:
>From: dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini)
>
>Herm:
>
>You went IN?
>
>Yeeeikes...if you did, who was there? I heard Joy was at that addy.
>
>Doris
====================================================
From: JimsonGal@aol.com

Herman, wait till you hear how it was when Rich visited there.  Same "spirit"
exactly.  Boy it mades my blood boil when I hear this stuff.  I really want
to say alot about this, but need to take the time to answer later.

Makes you wonder why they kept going back to the phone right?  Probably they
were getting "instruction" from someone in charge, i.e. Kevin Brown, maybe
St, but I doubt that.

Hey, they kicked Rich out too.  He brought a mini tape recorder, and Chuch M
took it from him (can you believe it, talk about having no respect or
boundaries, or whatever you want to call it.  They think that they are still
in control of us.  40-50 year old adults).  Chuck gave back the tape
recorder, but kept the tape that was inside it.  Well, he probably got an
earfull. Rich hadn't taped anything yet, but we had stuff on it already from
things that Jesus was showing us about Cobu.  You are right, they don't get
it.

Sometimes I wonder if those who are left there WANT to get it.  At what point
do the abused become the abusers.  How conscious is it for them.  God and
Holy Spirit are faithful, He has been wooing them for a long time.  I don't
mean to say that I've given up on them or don't genuinely want to see them
set free, but I do begin to question these things.

Fantasy??? thought for the day.  What would happen if 100  Xcobuers went to a
meeting?  Would they be able to kick everyone out.  What a fiasco, or should
I say  fiesta, guess it depends on which side your on.  If its truly a
"church,  by law" do they have the legal right to kick you out when you come
to a "service".  That would be  something to find out for further reference.
Plus, very puzzling also to me is that they kicked Rich out back in April of
1994, made sure that he was escorted out, yet, 2 months later they sent us
both an invitation to the July 4th BM?   See so much of it (besides the
spirits involved) is wrapped up in  their weird view of wanting to "be in
control" .  See, when you come on your own, there're suspicious, they're not
in control.

Good for you Herman, brave soul.  Next time, get a buddy.  Give Rich a call
he's always up for these adventures.  Maybe get about 99 buddies.

Love, Dawn
======================================
From: "Michael Montoya" <montoya@integrityonline1.com>

Herman, I got swamped last night. I will call soon. Mike Pappie, what's your
number? AAAAHHHHHH.
So the key language is "Do you fear God?" and if you say I am confident I'm
going to heaven, the will whip out a dictionary and force themselves to
mouth the word "presumptuous". Goodness and they threw you out?  And the
phone calls. They know about the article coming out. And the web site. It's
like they are in survival mode. Weird thing is, we had better sense and
confidence and understanding years ago to deal with gameplayers like Herman
without having to dial up New York and get some beard on the wire.
Hmmm...interested in parts 3 4 and 5
MM
===========================================
From: Herman M Weiss <hmweiss@juno.com>

From: Herm Weiss
Hi Mike, what you read on the list last night was the
introduction to my story.
I just posted parts 1 to 4. I'll call you Sat. morning to discuss these
events.
=============================================
From: dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini)

Herm:

wow....you tread ground I would dread to tread..a poet and didn't know
it... I have bumped into Angela and Reggie several times over the years,
they live TOO close to me. I tried to have a normal conversation and
fellowship in the Jesus I have come to love and adore and it didn't
work..like there was a ready made answer for my every word. And if their
ready made answers didn't cover it..go to the fear of God hammering. It is
nearly impossible to get through to them! I will be praying for Angela and
Reggie, she and a few others were the ones who witnessed to me back when I
was an atheist. Angela, Joan T, Joy Irey, Joan Sebesta and one or two more
were the ones who showed me the art show and for the first time it all
clicked for me and I finally believed in God and what Jesus did...all have
left COBU but Joy and Angela. It will take the hand of God to move them out
after all these years and I will be praying til they do :)

Let me ask you a question...how long did it take you to shake off that
blanket of madness after you left that night? *shuddering* thinking about
it! I can STILL feel that oppression I felt whenever I would bump into a
current member.

Doris
=========================================

From: JimsonGal@aol.com

Oh yes, Doris is right Herman, I forgot to mention the after effect, which is
VERY real indeed.  Don't be surprised at the "firey ordeal that will come
upon you".  It really is a spiritual warfare, and the spirits there are so
"familiar".

Rich and I will be praying for you.  Later  Dawn C.
=================================================
From: Herman M Weiss <hmweiss@juno.com>

From: Herm Weiss
Hi Doris, I was a very good friend with Joan Sebesta. She was in
the Schenectady fellowship with Rick & Janet Costa. Are you in contact
with
her ? I heard she got married. I hope so, she was always good with
children.
If you know her address & phone #, please email it to me. Me & the
Costa's
would love to hear from her.
====================================================
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:12:30 -0400 dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini) writes:
>From: dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini)
>
>Herm:
>
>wow....you tread ground I would dread to tread..a poet and didn't know
>it... I have bumped into Angela and Reggie several times over the
>years,
>they live TOO close to me. I tried to have a normal conversation and
>fellowship in the Jesus I have come to love and adore and it didn't
>work..like there was a ready made answer for my every word. And if
>their
>ready made answers didn't cover it..go to the fear of God hammering.
>It is
>nearly impossible to get through to them! I will be praying for Angela
>and
>Reggie, she and a few others were the ones who witnessed to me back
>when I
>was an atheist. Angela, Joan T, Joy Irey, Joan Sebesta and one or two
>more
>were the ones who showed me the art show and for the first time it all
>clicked for me and I finally believed in God and what Jesus did...all
>have
>left COBU but Joy and Angela. It will take the hand of God to move
>them out
>after all these years and I will be praying til they do :)
>
>Let me ask you a question...how long did it take you to shake off that
>blanket of madness after you left that night? *shuddering* thinking
>about
>it! I can STILL feel that oppression I felt whenever I would bump into
>a
>current member.
>
>Doris
=====================================
From: "Carol Stutts" <cstutts@kih.net>

Herman,
Consider it an honor to have been thrown off the premises....  I think you
deserve a special T Shirt....  "I survived a visit to the Cult"  ... or
"Official Cult Reject"

someone asked if they have that right...  the answer is YES
they own the property...they have the right to ask you to leave, if you
then choose to remain you are no longer considered a visitor, but a
trespasser and subject to legal ramification.

Carol Stutts
===========================================
From: Herman M Weiss <hmweiss@juno.com>

From: Herm Weiss
Hi Carol, I think legally if you were never taken off their
membership
list they can't consider you just a visitor. You have to be voted out
first.
When they asked me to leave I said, "I was a member long before
you ever were. I was one of the "OLDER BROTHERS" One of the Untouchables,
(just kidding), the untouchable part that is. You can't ask me to leave,
I'm part owner too!!! Then I departed.
We need advice about our rights in this area. Do we have any
lawyers
out there?
===========================================
From: "Carol Stutts" <cstutts@kih.net>

There is no official Membership list to the best of knowledge... its been
20 yrs... but they can do what they want.

I was a member of New York City Church of Christ and when I questioned
their authority I was told to leave.  I showed up at a Sunday Service and
was told if I didn't leave they would call the police...

I am not an attorney, but I do know the legal definition of trespasser, and
you would have fit that description....

Personally, I would consider it a complement that they don't want you
there.
==============================================
From: dpetini@nni.com (Doris Petini)

Ellen..best ex communication anyone can ask for! Glad you are out!

Doris
===========================================
From: Tom Pierron <tpierron@Op.Net>

Yes, I agree with Herman.  I feel I helped build that place.
With my sweat.  My money and effort helped that place.
Who does "own" it anyway?
The council of twenty - the President - who is always Stewart.
A smaller council, the board?  Someone signed papers and
there's a deed in someone's name - or maybe in the name of
The Church of Bible Understanding.
Anyway, I feel I have a legal, if not simply a moral right
to walk those grounds.
===================================================
From: John P King <jpkinghome@juno.com>

Lucky you.  John and I were officially excommunicated at a meeting in the
spring of 87 ( from what I've been told).  I didn't have the pleasure of
being there. ellen
=======================================================
From: JimsonGal@aol.com

>From Dawn:

I agree with Tom!! These boots were made for walking!!!

There must be some type of law about that.  You know like when 2 people live
together for at least 7 years, that kind of thing. Brain dead now, can't
think of the word I want.
=============================================
From: "Carol Stutts" <cstutts@kih.net>

Initially about 6 months or more ago, there was some chatting about Suing
COBU, but it came down to the fact that most haven't the time it would
take.  The only way you can get a piece of that property would be through
the legal system.
IMHO... like I said.. I'm not a lawyer... but think of marital property.
If a spouse leaves, of course they are entitled to at least 1/2 of marital
property, unless they left the other with children to raise, well unless
the remaining spouse is willing to sell the home and split the proceeds
after expenses, and you can distribute other property in an amicable
manner.. the spouse with no property hires an attorney..... and then the
split is 3 ways instead of 2.    Carol Stutts
=============================================
From: JThomas945@aol.com

>From John Thomas

Inside info: one of the phone calls was to Dale Vanderzee.  they were calling
for reenforcements, " a thousand shall flee at the sight of one"
I wonder how they feel after a disturbance of this nature?

God bless,
JT
----------------------------------------------------------
From: JThomas945@aol.com

Hermann,

Joan married Dan Sustarsik, they live in NE philly (I think)
==================================================