Which is where the Musician Website comes in. Here's where you can check out much of what the Wallflowers had to say that didn't make it into print. You won't find it anywhere else but here-and you won't find the best interview with the band anywhere else but in the pages of Musician. Check 'em both out.

LIFE ON THE ROAD

You've done two hundred shows so far this year. How do you feel about the road?

Dylan: I'm real tired. It's been about a year and a half. We don't take a lot of breaks. If we do, it's four days or at most ten days. We've had a couple moments where we've had two weeks, but we're pretty consistent. We work all the time. We also do six nights a week-sometimes seven-but you're hear to work. It's been a good time. I appreciate that there's an interest in us playing in towns, because we've been a band for a long time. It's just kind of late in the game. Everybody's just real tired, you know?

So you guys are finishing up in a couple of weeks, then you're going back out in November?

Dylan: Right now it's planned at about a six-week tour. We have another video and single coming, and it kind of depends on what happens with that. I have somewhat mixed feelings about it because it's been a long time. You have a band and you have a record company: Everybody's got different hopes [even though] I'm with a really great company. When they set their minds on things they seem to get them done, but they're going on the fourth single now and the record is not as fresh as it used to be to us. . . . We'll have to see what happens with the single. If it does well, then we'll stay out there. If it just kind of hovers around, we'll probably call it fairly soon after that.

Do you want to get back into the studio?

Dylan: Yeah. I'd like to do that pretty quick. I need a break from touring. I don't really need a break from music. I've written a lot of songs, and writing songs is not really the hard part for me. I'd like to take a little time off, go back to the studio, and make another record.

SONGWRITING

You don't find songwriting difficult at all?

Dylan: Writing things you're really proud of may not be that easy all the time. The actual craft of writing songs-verse, chorus, verse, chorus, melodies, words-has never been difficult. That doesn't mean it's always good songs, but I can pretty much write all the time.

How do you know when something you've written is really good?

Dylan: There's a percentage of the time where you realize you're using skill because you've heard enough songs and read enough to where you know you can do it. There's a certain percentage of the time where you realize you're writing something that's pushing your level. That's most important; that's why I try to write about things I haven't written about yet. I can rewrite a lot of my songs a hundred times.

You've mentioned Elvis Costello, Paul Westerberg, Joe Strummer-Eighties luminaries, primarily-as influences on your work.

Dylan: Those are the people I heard when I was twelve or thirteen years old. They all really impressed me, and looking back on it, it's pretty safe to say they are all quality. I don't think I ever had a time where I would look back and go, "I can't believe I liked that band or that kind of music."

Anyone else come to mind? I was wondering about Nick Drake . . .

Dylan: [Laughs.] I was just going to say Nick Drake. He was awfully depressing.

A "sad cowboy"? [Note: The rest of the Wallflowers describe Dylan's songwriting as "sad cowboy" music.]

Dylan: Yeah. I love that stuff.

How does the rest of the group contribute in songwriting? Are you still the source of the material?

Dylan: It's always been like that. There's probably a piece of me that's protective of that, because I've seen a lot of people come and go since I've been doing this. I started the first group when we were eighteen and nineteen years, when I was much more concerned with who's your friend than who plays well. As I got older, I learned a lot of lessons, and that balance kind of turned around to where you're going to be friends with the people who play very well. We went through a lot of adjustments in between the records. At that time I didn't really feel like I had a group. There were always four of us, but it just seemed to be rotating. I had guys, but I never wanted to be the only songwriter in the group. I always wanted more of a collaborative thing. I don't always want to be the focus. I know I can do it, but the band has more to offer as a full group.

Do you see that happening?

Dylan: It's entirely possible. Michael and I have been writing together. And Rami's started writing music. I think it's going to be something good.

SUCCESS

What do you do if the next record bombs?

Dylan: It's entirely possible. But ultimately, I don't think it's about the records. It's always been more of a goal of mine to put together a good show that people will come back and see. Pop music has never really been about the records. There have obviously been some amazing records, but they were originally promotion for tours. It's kind of unfortunate that so much stock is put into records now. If our next record flops . . . I don't know. I guess it depends on what the standards of success are.

Standards of success?

Dylan: Yeah. The way this business works is very funny. If someone sells five million records and the next one sells two million, that's considered a flop. Two million is a lot of records, a huge amount of records, but it's considered a disaster.

One of your dad's albums, Highway 61, just went platinum, which is amazing, considering how long ago it was released.

Dylan: His thing was never selling records. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones, all those people, always sold more records.

The only context I can see in which we might talk about your dad is in terms of how prolific he is. Coming from such lineage, is there any pressure on you as a songwriter to be prolific as well? Do you ask yourself how come you're not writing a great song every day?

Dylan: The reality is that most people can't do that. The reality is that the world doesn't need any more songs, so finding good ones is very hard, no matter who you are. There are some people-the chosen people-who can do that, but for the average person, which is most of us, not every song is going to be great. There's just not enough melodies left, so you have to work much harder. After forty years of pop music . . .

. . . where do you go?

Dylan: Yeah, but that's what it's all about-trying to find it, trying to get there. It's hard to write, depending on what your standards are. I have very high standards of songwriting. I've never been a fan of grooves or rhythms or scenes or outfits. I've always just loved the song and been attracted to people who wrote the good stuff. I've never gotten off on cheap songs. I mean, songs about cars are great, but I'd like to get further.

FAME

Is being famous all it's cracked up to be?

Dylan: I don't think there's any myth about fame. It's exactly what everybody hears it is or what they think it's going to be.

You've been quoted as saying it's not a good thing.

Dylan: I don't think it's a healthy thing. I signed up for it, so I don't complain, but it does bring a certain amount of baggage that you have to be prepared for. And I don't think you should be allowed to complain about it. I mean, being a pop star doesn't really impress me. I appreciate the work and the enthusiasm, but it's not a thrill for me. It can be dangerous or it can be good. You can abuse it or you can use it. I don't really have that hard a time with it.

That's a paradox, though. You grew up around it, and you don't particularly like it. But you signed up for it. Do you understand what in yourself want to get involved with all that?

Dylan: It's all a matter of how much you invest in your importance. I think I fill a spot. I don't have the answers for anybody. I don't particularly want to have the answers for anybody. I just do something I enjoy doing, and to do that at the highest level means you're on televisions and in magazines. All of that is a vehicle so that I can play shows.

So where's the satisfaction?

Dylan: I see people singing songs. I see them lined up outside, excited to see the band play. It's as simple as that. None of this has ever made me feel like, "Damn, I guess I really do have a really amazing rock band." That's not what it does to you, and it shouldn't. Fame should not equal quality, but that's a problem a lot of people have. The more popular they get, the better they think they are.

MEET THE BAND: MICHAEL WARD (GUITARIST), MARIO CALIRE (DRUMMER)

How are you guys playing now, as compared to when you first came together?

Ward: Well, we started touring in October of '95, so it's probably changed a lot, but it's been gradual. From what my friends have told me, it's a little more refined and simplified. You start to figure what works best for the songs, and that usually means playing a little less and just playing around each other more. I used to play a lot more.

Calire: Yeah, me too. You start to edit yourself.

Ward: Which is good.

Calire: For me, it meant playing what the song needs, nothing else.

Did this approach evolve gradually, or did you decide to follow it all at once?

Ward: It probably evolved really slowly. We're all good instrumentalists, and over time we jelled as a band and learned to trust each other more. That's where we learned to leave space, because we know that everybody else is going to be doing what they're supposed to be doing, and it's going to sound like music.

What was it like to go from working small club stages, where players tend to look at each other for cues, to big concert spaces?

Calire: Well, Michael gives me a hard time sometimes because I won't even look at him for a whole gig. It isn't deliberate, but sometimes it's not even necessary. Certain people always interact: Jake and Mike, myself and Greg as the rhythm section. But sometimes I don't look at Mike, and he's like, "Dude, I'm over here [laughter]!"

Ward: I remember having to say to Mario, "Okay, look, when you count off the first song tonight, count it really fucking loud with the sticks. None of this quiet shit."

Calire: Yeah, when you get on this big stage and he's a hundred yards away, it's gotta be real big and obvious.

Is it harder or easier to play the big stages?

Ward: I think it's easier. It takes on this humorous, non-reality vibe, whereas a small club of a hundred people is way more terrifying because of the eye contact and because if the sound isn't that great, they can usually hear it. It's just so intimate. In the big arena, the closest person in the audience is fifty feet away from you, everything is echoing all over, and it's easier for me that way.

Calire: I disagree with Mike. For me, the more people there are, the more pressure I feel, because there are more people there to entertain, especially if a gig isn't going as planned or as well as you would like.

Are you playing through songs the same as when you started doing them?

Ward: We constantly find new approaches. The parts have changed quite a lot, probably, but it's been pretty gradual. I'm sure if we heard a tape of the first week of gigs we ever did, it would be pretty hilarious.

Calire: Sometimes Mike can get through a whole song and play two notes.

Ward: Sometimes I can get through a whole song and not clam [laughter].

Do you guys get to practice, individually or as a band, while you're on the road?

Ward: I do a lot more than I have in years and years, just because I felt like I was starting to get into a rut. I'll buy music books and go practice things. As a band, no, never. We might practice a little bit at the sound check if we're working on some new song ideas, but man, if we have a couple of weeks between tours, we're just not going to lock ourselves into practice for a week.

How do you maintain a sense of yourself on the road?

Ward: I'm fanatical about cycling. I try to ride three or four hours a day if I can, and that's like three or four hours that I don't talk to anybody. It's just me and my body and my bike, and I love it.

Calire: We've all graduated to having our own hotel rooms, so that gives you time to read a book or do whatever you need to do.

Ward: I got up at 6:30 to ride this morning, and I noticed that another bandmate who is not at this table had his USA Today still outside his door when I came back at noon, so some people just like to sleep, which is cool.

So you guys aren't out there partying after the gig.

Ward: You've got the two guys who don't party right here.

Calire: The fatigue is just too much to deal with, let alone throwing booze or whatever on top of it. Even the second-hand smoke is starting to bother me.

Ward: Yeah, no kidding. The most stressful thing is when we have to do an award shoot or a video shoot, all those things that throw your natural schedule out of whack. It's like when you read Musician when you were in high school and you never even think you'd have the luck to be involved with it-and then it happens. That's when you realize that doing the magazine interview takes hours out of your day, along with the photo shoot and this and that. Don't get me wrong; I'm still very excited [laughter]. But, you know, it's just work load.

You've had to build your position in the shadow of Jakob's father. That's got to be getting tiresome, but is it difficult to handle?

Calire: It never affects me. Jake always has to deal with it.

Ward: It's a mixed bag. On one hand Jake signed up for this ball game; he knew it was going to happen. At the same time, people could be a lot more in control of themselves when it comes to freaking out about that shit.

Calire: It's just rude. Random people, whether journalists, fans, or radio people.

Does that mess up the band's dynamic at all?

Ward: Not so much. Sometimes there's a sense of humor and you get around it. Sometimes you're not in the mood and it's annoying. Generally, we just do our thing. We don't push the issue.

GREG RICHLING (BASSIST); RAMI JAFFEE (KEYBOARDIST)

Have you noticed a change in your audience from being out on the road for so long?

Richling: You mean do I notice a lot more fourteen-year-old girls because of our video play?

If you want to put it that way.

Richling: I notice a lot of that, but it's mixed in with the returning core fans. The first layer up front is the screaming fourteen-year-old MTV crowd, but who's to say that these people buy records for the wrong reasons? It's pretty bold to say that because somebody is young they don't have a clue. Young kids discovered the Beatles, and nobody's saying those records sucked.

Jaffee: Exactly. We don't have to change to adapt to that. If they like whatever they like, there's more reason not to change.

Richling: There are times when they're screaming, and I'll look over at Rami and say, "Whoa, what are they doing? Chill out, we're not on TV right now." Or they'll be trying to talk to you in the middle of a song, and I'll stop and wonder, "Do they realize that we're actually doing something up here?"

Does this kind of reaction mess with your head?

Richling: To be honest with you, nothing that's happened to us in the last year and a half has surprised me in the slightest. I mean that. The media machine works in a certain way, and it's just expected that when you're constantly on TV you're gonna have a certain kind of response. It's not like we need to play dumb. We know why this is happening.

Do you worry that the younger crowd doesn't appreciate your musicianship?

Richling: I don't feel that way.

Jaffee: Maybe there's one kid who's digging it, and their friends call their friends for advice about the band, like I did when I was a kid: "What band do you like? Oh, okay. I'll go to that show with you." And you'll go because it's cool and it's on MTV. Maybe it'll take me a long time to either grow into it or realize I didn't like it. The crowd doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's down with your record. You've got their friends and their peer group and that kind of thing going on. But hopefully they'll grow into it.

How would you describe your role in the band?

Richling: Mario and I are the foundation, sort of a bedrock. Michael and Rami do sort of a support role. It's mainly about keeping the groove flowing and choosing my spots wisely to play fills.

There's a lot of space in your songs where you could stretch out a lot more.

Richling: There are definitely spots where the vocals do their thing, but there are also spots where the bass line is very important, even though it might mean noodling in the high register and coming back down. Songs like "Bleeders" and "One Headlight" are built heavily on the bass.

What about the organ parts? Do you do a lot of typical keyboard pads?

Jaffee: Maybe there's a couple of songs where I'll do the pad thing, like "Invisible City." That's pad heaven, but then I'll hear melodies that seem to work off of Jakob's vocals, so I'll go with that instinct, kind of hamming it up and tapering it down. So it's mostly riffs, not pads. I don't want to be too riffy, but whenever I hear someone doing a pad for the whole record it's like, "What are you there for [laughter]?"

Do you see yourself as a classic Hammond B-3 player, or are you trying to take it someplace else?

Jaffee: I'm trying to push it so many places that I don't know where I'm going to push it next [laughter]. Not many of our songs call for taking it to the crazy organ level. For the most part I don't want to distract from the songs.

You're not copping a Medeski, Martin & Wood thing.

Jaffee: I love John Medeski! He's amazing. He takes it to a certain place that I like to listen to but don't necessarily want to give out.

What other organists do you like?

Jaffee: Oh, it's tough. There's so many.

Give me three.

Jaffee: Benmont Tench, Jimmy Smith, and Jimmy McGriff. . . .