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Author
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Topic: Why was I deleted?
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GhostfaceKiller
Loyal Fallen
Member # 1694
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 11:29 AM
Hello fellow FA members (well actually, former fellow FA members, it seems that I am no longer an FA member and the reason for this post is that I want my WL to explain to me why I was deleted for no apparent reason. Well, you might ask, "why the hell is this guy posting here and not in his division forums?" lol well i already posted twice in the division forums asking him to explain to me why I was deleted and the post just got deleted o_O Also my pms in irc were ignored.
So, I am posting here and I hope that this time I will actually get an answer and an explanation instead of being ignored again ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Let me give some additional info to help explain to you all why I am so confused. Let me ask you, after months of effort and dedication in the MOH:AA division, and attaining the rank of High Council and squad leader, don't I at least deserve an explanation or some discussion about why I am being kicked from the division?? It was not discussed at all. I simply woke up this morning and went to log in to the division page and it said password not accepted. Then I look at the squad names, and where my name used to be, there is a fat N/A.
Seems to me that this deletion revolves around a particular issue - the recruitment of a certain individual. Now this requires a bit of background explanation, so please bear with me.
Loki was a member of the mohaa division a while back, and it was discovered that he was hacking, and so the WLs at the time saw fit to kick him out of the division. I had nothing to do with this decision, since I was merely a merc at the time, I believe. So, loki was gone, and in the intervening months we were being flooded with purgs.
At one point I think we had almost a hundred members, and only 2 16 person servers, so the leaders (by that time I was involved in leader's meetings) decided that the division should be more selective in the recruitment process: specifically, it was decided that some minimum criteria should be met before a purg was promoted to FA rank. Therefore, the leaders decided to create a testing committee that would judge which purgs were fit to be promoted.
In general, the leaders decided that forum activity, irc activity, and skill were all important factors. The actual implementation of these requirements was left up to the testing committee to be decided. The testing committee was composed of 5 high council ranked members, and I was one of them. There was another committee, called the recruiting committee that did some initial scouting and information gathering of purgs, but i shall not elaborate on that further since it was short-lived.
After the testing committee was already in place, we (henceforth, when i say we, i am referring to members of the testing committee) noticed that a few purgs had been promoted to FA rank, and we did not test them. One of them, the WLs said, used to be an FA member, and as for the others the WLs said they had played with the purgs and thought they were good enough. Another explanation the WLs offered was that the testing committee was bypassed because it was disorganized and took too long to test people.
I certainly thought that this was a funny explanation. If certain purgs were promoted by the WLs because they had sat too long in purgatory, how come the one that had been there the longest, Nemesis, was not promoted too? Strange... Well this caused a bit of a stir, because certain testers thought "what is the point of having a testing committee if it is going to be bypassed for certain ppl and not for others?"
I, for one, think that if you are going to have a rule, you should be honest and fair and make everyone stick to that rule, whether it is your personal friend or some new recruit you dont know. If I, as a leader, bent the rules every time a buddy of mine needed it, I would quickly lose the respect of my fellow members. Favoritism and nepotism, in my opinion, have no place in FA, a clan that claims to be founded on democratic principles.
Anyway, as a result of discussion between the testing committee and the WLs, we agreed that this testing procedure should apply to EVERY purg. Whether or not they had been in FA before, ALL purgs would have to pass the testing procedure in order to be promoted to FA rank. As I said, the details of requirements were left up to the testing committee, and we decided that in order to pass, purgs would have to: 1) be seen logged into irc and the forums at least once or twice during their two week period 2) log in to the division page (we had not yet decided on the exact number of times required, but at least once or twice per week) 3) score a 1:1 ratio over a round of 3 maps. That is, get at least as many kills as deaths in a round of 3 tdm maps.
So, last night we did loki's testing and he scored 39 to 41. This means that he had a total of -2 and therefore did not pass. It is the opinion of some that Loki is more active than the average member in the forums and irc. While this may or may not be true, the testing guidelines (previously agreed upon by leaders) require that in addition to forum and irc activity, a minimum score ratio is required. If we were to say "oh its only -2, besides he used to be a cool division member and he is helpful in irc and on forums, lets promote him anyway" that would NOT be following the guidelines as we agreed with the warlords.
If, for example, we had another purg sign up and do really well in the server and own everybody with his 1337 skillz, but that same purg never logged in to the div page and never connected to IRC, we would not promote him either. The point is, we decided to require all 3 kinds of activity (forum, irc, server) because we want a balanced recruit.
This might seem like nitpicking to some of you, but just think, if any high ranking division member wanted to bend or break a rule any time he wanted to, we would eventually have a complete breakdown of the system. The rules are in place to prevent that sort of thing and to keep everyone honest and fair. This is why i felt that it was important to stick to the rules and not promote loki.
Now, a certain WL was not pleased with this decision not to promote loki, and i informed him that i was simply doing my job as a member of the testing committee. My job is to follow the guidelines for testing agreed upon by the leaders, WLs of course included. I suggested that if this didnt seem right that a purg would not be promoted because of a -2 score, then we should change the guidelines for testing to make it easier.
Then if the leaders agreed on new guidelines, the testing committee would be happy to enforce the new requirements. I must clearly state that the job of the testing committee is not to make or change rules, its job is simply to enforce them. So up to last night that is what the state of affairs was, and this morning i go to log in and i see i have been deleted without explanation or discussion.
So, let me ask once again, please can i be informed why i was deleted? I was simply following the rules and doing my job.
[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: GhostfaceKiller ]
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why was i deleted? click
From: ethiopia | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
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Rathnierre
Guardian
Member # 1371
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 12:25 PM
You were removed based on your CONSTANT Negativity and Your Constant Antagonism. You have continued to NOT see the big picture and have continued to patronize the WarLords. You will be allowed to rejoin and regain your rank. However...this will not happen for the term of two weeks. Consider this a harsh version of After Life. You MUST NOT hinder the progress of the division. And your decision WAS biased. According to others, You were negative about the test before it even began.
From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2002
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Fire
Loyal Fallen
Member # 205
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posted October 08, 2003 12:44 PM
I do think he should have been given a warning, maybe he was in one division and wanted to keep his profile, and why have AL, if you're not going to use it. Unless you have some proof of some serious disobedience, in my opinion, you are wrong.
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From: NewYork/NewJersey | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sniper099
Loyal Fallen
Member # 1801
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 12:47 PM
o_0 yea i think that the ultimate question here is ... has he not let other ppl in that were close .... but not quite there and if he hasnt i dont see what was wrong if he has then ofcourse it did have some biased to it.
__________________________
As i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i shall fear no evil.
I PWN JOO ALL
MAX getting pissed "how about no .. no.. and HELL NO" hahah
From: Maryland | Registered: May 2003
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STATIC
Loyal Fallen
Member # 905
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 12:59 PM
Fire's right, you sir are a dickhead, hows that for negativity and antagonism??? ty and good day
__________________________
"Don't tell me what I want,
Don't tell me what I need,
Don't tell me how I need to feel,
I feel, GOD, DAMN, NOTHING!!!!!!!
Dig the eyes right out of my face,
And I can still see right fucking through you!
Fuck, YOU and everything you are!
I'm me, we're us, and thats all!
Closed mind with a forum to criticize,
Keep your policy, and i've got mine!
Exploit me, fabricate your lies,
We empower these cowards just to be left in, SILENCE!!!"
~^*Mudvayne - Silence*^~
Tribute to the maggots...
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
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Max Sterling
amo de las llamas
Member # 66
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:12 PM
Speaking personally and not really as an admin..
i have a few questions..
1) why was a known cheater allowed to come back period (especially when he rarely played the game before... bad way to represent FA..)
2) why was he promoted AFTER he failed the test. (which is a pretty easy test IMO especially if these are public games)
3) why was no explaination or warning given BEFORE he had to come to the public forum to demand it. (we are all civil beings.. I think discussion is not difficult)
4) how did somone whos "CONSTANT Negativity and (his) Constant Antagonism." and who does "NOT see the big picture" and somone that "patronize(s) the WarLords" and makes biased decisions ever get to the rank of HiC?
5) if its a commitee of members were the other members deleted as well? if not.. why?
Ild rather not get involved with division problems but I hold MoH dear to my heart from many hard hours of work put into the division while i was there.. I am concerned about some of the decisions made over the last few weeks/months but have kept my distance to allow the WLs to take care of it.. but this all seems sort of fishy to me from SEVERAL angles
__________________________
Star Wars Galaxies
Server: Eclipse
Character Name: Max Sterling
Profession: Commando/Smuggler (possibly Tera Kasi some day)
ô_ò
From: Idaho (tator land) | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
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GhostfaceKiller
Loyal Fallen
Member # 1694
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rathnierre:
You were removed based on your CONSTANT Negativity and Your Constant Antagonism. You have continued to NOT see the big picture and have continued to patronize the WarLords. You MUST NOT hinder the progress of the division. And your decision WAS biased.
Please allow me to respectfully offer a point-by-point refutation.
1: with regard to "CONSTANT Negativity and Your Constant Antagonism" ) At the last leaders meeting all the leaders agreed to the testing committee and its purpose.
Because i insist on following the rules as agreed upon by all the leaders, am I really being "negative" and "antagonistic"? I am simply trying to keep leaders on track with my reminders of decision that have already been agreed upon by all
2: with regard to "patronizing and NOT seeing the big picture") Because I remind the Warlords that it is my job as a member of the testing committee to uphold the rules as agreed upon, i am being "patronizing"??? When I explained why the testing committee decided not to promote loki, I gave exactly the same reasons that I did in this post above. He did not meet the requirements. I explained that in my MOH division forums post, I explained that to you in irc. How is that in any way patronizing?
For me, the "big picture" is that FA is a democratic, orderly organization. This means that leaders and members agree upon rules and follow them. Therefore, in enforcing the rules as agreed upon, I was demonstrating that I do indeed have the "big picture" in mind. Like i said, if there is a problem with the way recruits are tested, why dont you propose to change the requirements for testing? then the committee will enforce those.
3: with regard to "You MUST NOT hinder the progress of the division") How, may I ask, was i hindering the progress of the division? I spend time developing strategies and planning practices for our objective squad (the only squad which actually competes on a ladder) and I help out newbs with technical issues. If at times I humbly and respectfully disagree with WLs, I try my best to discuss it in private, and regardless of my personal view, I always uphold the decisions agreed upon by the majority.
4: with regard to "And your decision WAS biased.") This statement is patently false. The testing rounds were conducted exactly to the specifications required, and my personal feelings toward the test subject are completely irrelevant. If I loved the purg and he got a negative score, he would not be promoted. Conversely, if i hated the purg but he got a positive score, he would be promoted. Personal feelings have no consequence on this decision process. This is precisely as it should be because the testing committee is, in theory and practice, a fair, impartial institution.
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why was i deleted? click
From: ethiopia | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
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STATIC
Loyal Fallen
Member # 905
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:21 PM
5 Angles to be exact max, do yourself a favor, Rathnierre. Let someone who at least has a smigeon of brain power from the moh division answer ghosts questions and stop trying to opress this man...
__________________________
"Don't tell me what I want,
Don't tell me what I need,
Don't tell me how I need to feel,
I feel, GOD, DAMN, NOTHING!!!!!!!
Dig the eyes right out of my face,
And I can still see right fucking through you!
Fuck, YOU and everything you are!
I'm me, we're us, and thats all!
Closed mind with a forum to criticize,
Keep your policy, and i've got mine!
Exploit me, fabricate your lies,
We empower these cowards just to be left in, SILENCE!!!"
~^*Mudvayne - Silence*^~
Tribute to the maggots...
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
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Rathnierre
Guardian
Member # 1371
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:30 PM
well..for one, allow me to thank each and everyone of you that posted on this. The issue has been resolved. And Ghost is back in the Division at his previous rank...well atleast after he eats his breakfast. Thank you all for your mature and positive feed back..especially Static's. His was my favorite and the most helpful. The WarLords jumped to a conclusion that was not best for the division and it was quickly resolved in order to help the division progress. Thanks again!
From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
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Stat
Loyal Fallen
Member # 1622
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:31 PM
I pwn STATIC O_o
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GhostfacedBitch is an Assclown
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§tätïç
From: Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Max Sterling
amo de las llamas
Member # 66
Member Rated:
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posted October 08, 2003 01:34 PM
if its resolved ill move it to the MoH forums where it belongs
__________________________
Star Wars Galaxies
Server: Eclipse
Character Name: Max Sterling
Profession: Commando/Smuggler (possibly Tera Kasi some day)
ô_ò
From: Idaho (tator land) | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
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