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the other side
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Mount Hope Commune
Monday, May 2, 2005
From a child of Mount Hope
Topic: the other side
For anyone out there, like myself, who has searched for hints of the past from Mount Hope, I want to share with you some of my experiences. I would love to hear from you. I want to know your experiences both positive or negative.

After hours of searching the web, it seems the only one who is writing is Laura Jones. After reading her emails over the years, it is clear to me that she does not see the evil, selfishness, extreme pride, and controlling behavior of Herbert Schwartz.

Sexual abuse is wrong. It cannot be justified. Even if it's Herbert doing it. Controlling weak people through mind control and physical abuse is wrong. It's not the Catholic way. Jesus did not tend to his sheep in this fashion. But as I know, Herbert did not follow Jesus. He followed his own desires even when his desires meant hurting people.

Herbert had his favorites and I was not one of them.
I was born at Mount Hope and lived my childhood in the commune (cult) for 12 years. I have blocked many memories which later came back to haunt me in my adult years. I remembered the time when I put a puzzle away in the wrong place in kindergarden. Two women (whom I won't mention) carried me to Herbert's room. Herbert hit me in the face, and then again. After ward he ordered the woman to pull my pants down and whipp me with a belt while he watched.

I remembered the little school, in that house somewhere. The kids in my class had to leave the room while one of our precious classmates got whipped for spilling his milk yet another time.

The cruelty of Betty Braun - I have to mention her. I was so shy and affraid to read aloud. When it was my turn to read, I tried my best. My best was not good enough because Betty kicked me out of the classroom in front of all my peers because I was reading too slowely. After class she asked me "What is the matter with you? Why can't you read well?" After that experience I not only couldn't read well, I also began to stutter. How scared I was of Herbert. God only knows what else he did to the other kids.

After all these years my mother finally confided in me an experience we had in Herbert's room. Herbert sexually abused my mother in front of us. I was very young and I came up to my mother and Herbert during the act and asked what they were doing. I think I was 5. How would one think an experience such as this would effect the relationship between a mother and her daughter?

I have so many questions that my parents cannot answer. The reason they can't answer is because they don't know. They weren't there most of the time. Herbert believed that parents should be separated from their children. Not to be loved too much.

Herbert knew nothing about children and it is so unbeleivable that he was able to get away with so many acts of child abuse. His followers were so beaten down emotionally. Herbert wanted his followers to become weak and have no confidence in themselves or anyone exept for him. What ever Herbert taught, they beleived. He was the master.

Herbert had sexual relationships with many women at Mount Hope. So many wives. Did he sexually abuse the young girls too? It would not surprise me.

There were good times I remember. The horses, the pool, and the babysitters that were nice. To me, Mount Hope was my family. As cruel as it was. And after all those years in one school, in one world, in one crazy family, it vanished. No talk of it, nothing. It was just gone. Not one person said good by. Not one babysitter wanted to keep in touch. Not one teacher. They were too busy trying to understand things and to somehow put their lives back together.

Abuse and then abandonment. That was my childhood.
My Mount Hope experience. Some of it anyway.

Children don't normally develop defense mechanisms until they are 8. When Herbert told me I was trash, I beleived him without interpretation. When he beat me, it was because I was bad, dirty, and rotten. Herbert beleived that the evil in the world came from children being spoiled. What's wrong with this world is not too much love, it's the lack of love. Jesus said to love one another as ourselves. We have to love ourselves in order to love one another. Herbert was a complete idiot in my opinion.

I know I am not alone.

Posted by ma4/ma428 at 3:08 AM CDT
Post Comment | View Comments (44) | Permalink | Share This Post

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 3:01 PM CST

Name: rachel

My family was at Mount Hope. I was very young but I do have some vague frightening memories. I think there is a lot of truth in what you wrote.

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 3:27 PM CST

Name: rachel

It's a few minutes after my first post and I find myself crying for some reason. I'm not sure why.

Wednesday, January 4, 2006 - 4:32 PM CST

Name: Mary Vanderhaar

Feel free to contact me at

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:35 PM CDT

Name: martha jones koenig

You are correct, you are not alone.
Knowing right from wrong is crucial and identifying what Herbert did as wrong is crucial to all of our's health. Glad to hear you can separate right from wrong. Please feel free to e-mail me. I can be hard to reach by phone.
I owe my peace of mind and knowing I was not alone in large part to a conversation Mary Paul Vanderhaar and I shared in 1985.


Tuesday, January 9, 2007 - 8:41 AM CST

Name: Mary Vanderhaar

How wonderful to be in contact with you. Thank you for the wonderful affirmation that I was able to give you some peace of mind....You have no idea of what that means to me. I believe there is great power in reaching out to other people for our healing process....
Would love to catch up with you sometime as to what is going on in your life...I am living in KY now....all of my children are here...and 8 grandchildren....Jim and I are no longer together but remain good friends. I have my own business doing financial consulting with a specialty of working with people going through divorce...It amazes me of the similarity of some of these ladies sense of loss of power who are coming out of bad marriages. Because of my own history I am able to empathize with them and they appreciate my understanding.
Would love to hear from you...
Love so much,

Thursday, February 1, 2007 - 2:20 AM CST

Name: blog/monkeyonsen

I spent one year of my life researching Mount Hope. I was also born there and lived there for 10 years until Herbert died. Having almsot no memory of my time there, and knowing that my life is deeply influenced by my experience, I wanted to put together a story that I could live with. I contacted almost everyone who lived there and asked each person if s/he would be willing to share his/her experiences. Many told me the past was the past and didn't want to relive it. But many helped. I understand Mount Hope much better as a result.

I relive Mount Hope every day, whether I want to or not. The foundation of fear of hatred that I learned from infancy has been incredibly difficult to live with peacefully.

Who are you? My name is David Scholten. I am starting to write a little of my own about Mount Hope and would love to be in touch with you. I may be able to answer some of your questions for you. My parents were not as helpful as some others I have talked to. Ask away! And what is Laura Jones writing and how can I get a copy of it?

I wish you peace,

Saturday, February 3, 2007 - 12:21 AM CST

Name: blog/monkeyonsen

"I was the age where kids transition from diapers to underwear. I was having accidents in my pants. Herbert found out and told my sister if I did it one more time she should smear the feces in face. I had another accident and she obeyed."

I have a question for any adults of Mount Hope that might be reading this. Why was Herbert informed of the minutia of peoples lives? Why didn't the adults just keep quiet about things? I hear so many stories from Mount Hope that have the phrase '...and Herbert found out...'. How did Herbert find out? If you know that telling Herbert will result in a child receiveing demeaning punishment, why tell him? Were you under direct order to do so? How did people decide what was worthy to tell him and what wasn't? The fact that a child misplacing a book or that my accidents became known to Herbert is a mystery to me.

I do hold Herbert responsible for a lot of the pain that happened at Mount Hope, but not all of it. I hold every adult that knew what was going on responsible. And to some degree not one adult who lived at Mount Hope is innocent. When I contacted as many people from Mount Hope as I could, every one of them told me what a horrible mistake they had made, how Herbert had pulled the wool over their eyes. And yet not one seemed to take resposibilty for the harm of inaction. For there to be a collective healing of Mount Hope, I would like the adults to come forward and accept resposibilty for allowing Herbert to do what he did. My Mom has appologized and that was a good experience for me. I would like to see this happen on a larger scale. Mount Hope and Herbert will be alive and well for many generations until it is all brought out into light.

Monday, February 5, 2007 - 2:19 PM CST

In the search criteria the name, Sis Mellet came up. What was her involvement in this?

Monday, August 20, 2007 - 8:17 AM CDT

Name: "Martha Jones Koenig"

I wrote earlier that I would be happy to hear from or talk or e-talk to anyone reading this blog....I lived at Mt Hope Foundation for 10 teen years...from 1963-1974 roughly. I see that no e-mail address showed up

845 255 5572

My basic experience was that overall community life was really a lot of fun....but some very bad things happened to many if not all of us over the years. Calling the good, good and the bad, bad is essential for my peace of mind. There is a saying, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" I think this is what happened to Herbert. The worst for me is my own mother, who maintains to this day that what I experienced was not sexual abuse but a precious gift. That is revolting.  



Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 11:10 AM CST

Name: "Steve Scholten"

I was born into Mt. Hope and was a part of the community until Herbert died, and for some years afterward when the "headquarters" moved to Milford, PA.

I'm all for calling the good good and the bad bad.  In my memories of Mount Hope there are a few good ones- running in a 10K with the adults, going to Skateland.  However, these few good memories are FAR outweighed by the bad, traumatic experiences that, as other Mt. Hope children have alluded to on this blog, I have no choice but to deal with on a daily basis.  This is not to say that I'm clinging to the past.  Traumatic experiences, like being whipped and slapped and told that you're a no good, ungrateful little brat on a daily basis for the first seven years of your life, get stored in the body and lodged in the mind and psyche.

 I have done a LOT of very difficult work in therapy, meditation and in 12 step recovery to try to learn to cope with the strong feelings of rage, fear and low self-esteem that Mount Hope engendered.  It sounds like the children's experience may have been different from the adults.  To me, Mt. Hope was a horrible place that had had a dramatic. negative impact on my life and any mention of the positive aspects is like wading through a waist deep lake of raw sewage and commenting on the beauty of a dirty, muddy rose floating by.  It doesn't change the stench, and it is dirtied and ruined by the overwhelming filth.

 I mean no animosity with this response.  I just want to express my point of view as a child born and raised at Mount Hope.

Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 9:31 PM CDT

Name: "anonymous"

I was a child of Mt Hope, but don't have many memories. The few I  have aren't great

Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 10:25 PM CDT

Name: "joe plummer"

It is so good to see that people are talking to one another.  I think that is the only solution.  

Friday, April 11, 2008 - 5:43 PM CDT

Name: "Cecilia Plummer Galante"

I am a child of Mt. Hope too. I was known as Little Sis, since Cecilia Mellet was called Big Sis.

If anyone still wants to talk, please email me anytime at

I'm here. You're not alone.

Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 2:16 PM CDT

Name: "Jeanne Gavish"

TO THE MOUNT HOPE CHILDREN:I am heartened to see so many of you trying to find answers to fill in the blanks.  I was sent to Mt. Hope by my parents because my adult sister lived there.  I was 16 at the time.  I married at 19 and my children were Rachel, Ruth and Joanna.  I left under extremely violent circumstances and was publicly beaten in the process.  I was 5 months pregnant with my son Jacob, and my husband sat by and watched, along with every other adult in the house having dinner in the "big house".  I sat outside my children's bedroom with a colt 45 pistol until morning so no one could take them away from me again.  As you know, that was the customary punishment for disobedience for mothers.  So, not all of us stood by and allowed this to happen.  We women lived in fear just as much as the children, and were physically abused too.  I felt just as helpless and powerless as you, because no one on the outside was there to help me get out.  Not to justify myself or any other adult, but imagine being 24, pregnant with your 4th child, no money, no car, in the middle of nowhere, with no access to a phone,and in my case no one who cared what happened to me.  I made it out with my kids, no thanks to my husband, who didn't want to leave.  I will help piece together any memories/flashbacks/dreams that don't make sense, and know that there is an organization that there to help also.  It is called ICSA, and they have begun to focus their workshops around the country on children who grew up in destructive groups like ours.  My oldest daughter Rachel and I went together in 2004 and it was very healing.  I have the same anger at my parents that many of you who grew up there.  When I hear of parents of other groups who kidnap their children for deprogramming, and then know that my parents heard of what was happening to me and did is still a bitter wound after many years of therapy (kinda obvious, right?) Please feel free to contact me at

Saturday, January 3, 2009 - 12:27 PM CST

Name: "David"

Laura Jones' e-mail is

Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 7:53 PM CST

Name: "martha jones koenig"

Hi David
I see my Mom's e-mail
It is
her web page is
and Bud and Arlene Scott have a web site
of a lot of stuff but one link brings you to Bud telling how Logos got started and also
they "publish" Herbert's writings as contributed anonymously and refer to him
as a Staretz as does my Mom.
Hope all is well
Martha Jones Koenig

Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 9:27 PM CDT

Name: "yet another one"

Just wondering if anyone still reads or posts here...I too am a child of Mt. Hope....

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 12:00 PM CDT

Name: "Joe B"

Yes. I believe a number of us monitor it.

Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:45 AM CDT

Name: "anonymous"

Yes, are  there some of us who still check back here every so often. It is an awkward set up for "conversation",  but it does keep a semblence of communication going within our "family"...Family by having lived at Mt Hope Foundation at one time. Thank you to whoever it was who first told her story in this setting. We all need to know we are not alone  and  to have our memories validated.

Martha Jones Koenig

p.s. If I get this sent, verifying the code is maddeningly difficult (impossible)

Sunday, April 5, 2009 - 5:11 AM CDT

Name: "Mt. Hopeless resident too"

hild of Mt. Hope et al

I lived at Mt. Hope as an adult for 1-1/2 years and I can vouch 100% that what you say is the truth. This is based on what I personally witnessed and things I was told by people who had lived there for years.

Herbert was a self serving cult leader who destroyed families and damaged tender souls. That anyone still regards him as "saintly' is sickening.

How many times have I said "you had to live there to understand what is was like"  .... I hope you are healing from any damage and pain caused by that place.

It is good to see comments here from some people who's names I recognize.

PS The verification code is a problem - it has to be keeping people from posting!

Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 5:04 PM CDT

Name: "matthew van lokeren"

Hi Everyone (my fellow "brothers and sisters")!

Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 5:20 PM CDT

Name: "matthew van lokeren"

having trouble with code - my email is to respond to and say...

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 1:46 PM CDT

Name: "matthew van lokeren"

Anyone consider an online CHAT?A It seems to me we need to go into a real dialogue about this.

A lot of pain still to process....


Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 6:25 PM CDT

Name: "Laurie"

Is anyone else having as much trouble as I am posting on this?


Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 9:37 PM CDT

Name: "Laurie"


Hi there- I re-read the posts on this site and I am sure that there has to be a way for us to help eachother heal. I re-read all the pain that many of us still live with. Out of all evil comes a greater good. I have come to have a peace about my childhood by letting go of the anger and knowing that if the pain is too great for me then there is only one person who can deal with it and that is Jesus. We need to give it over to Him and let go of the anger and hurt. We will never have the strength to deal with it ourselves, so give it to Him. I have many happy memories of my childhood and many friends from my chilhood that I am very close to. I lived at Mt. Hope from the time I was 7 till I was 17. My experiences are very similar yet very different from all I read. I was very abused as a child but I was also very happy with my friends and those adults that did love me and look out for me. And somehow when I moved out on my own I was blessed with being able to find a job and supportive friends. Not that I didn't have tough times-it's just that the tough times did not dominate my world. If you would like to write-it's God Bless

Monday, June 1, 2009 - 2:20 PM CDT

Name: "anonymous"




Sunday, July 5, 2009 - 9:41 PM CDT

Name: "Facebook Group"

Just so you all know...we now have 20 members...long way to go....and many others who need to find us....but we are there for you!

Monday, February 15, 2010 - 8:28 AM CST

Name: "joanne"

I am so grateful to all of you who had the courage to speak of your experiences. How can it be that most of us did not know? I am still trying to figure that out, but I am sure that being "under obedience" to keep our eyes down & our hearts and minds praying always, and the random daily slapping of people considered to be "in their own thoughts" allowed for much of the manipulation and the horrible acts committed against Mt Hope's victims.

I did not believe, until I found this site last night, that Herbert was truly not who he said he was, that he not only deceived 250 (?) people, but the local bishop and the occasional visitor to Mt Hope. I know that it would be asking a lot of those of you who suffered horrors, but I do think it is necessary that HTS be torn down officially, lest anyone continue to think of him as a saint, or even a man of faith. It is important to the entire Body of Christ that his lies and atrocious actions be revealed and called what they were, 'evil', manipulative, and cruel, all done in the Name of Jesus. Ugh. The offense to the Name, to the Truth, to Love. to every person made in the Image and Likeness of God (ie, all human persons) must be acknowledged.

We who survived in ignorance of Herbert's cruel and deceptive actions are sicker than we know, too.  It is imperative that all people affected (or infected) should relearn right from wrong according to trustworthy models of truth. As it stands now, I have found that horrible wrongs can occur in front of my face, and I either don't see them, or they erase immediately afterwards from my memory. We allow others to be abused because we have no clear idea of what abuse is anymore. Our sight and hearing is selective. 

The illness of both the horribly abused and the ignorant deceived must heal because otherwise it will spread through generations. The spread has already begun. Already I protected one of my children FAR TOO LATE because I was unable to SEE the abuse occuring in our home. Our tolerance for abuse towards ourselves and others is way too high and very dangerous. We walked in a stunned and silent daze for years. It may take years of active looking and listening before we can recognize all of the 'bathwater', never mind not throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I know of someone who has experience in the investigation and unwinding and disclosure of abuse connected with the church. She understands by personal experience what it is to separate the truths of the faith from those who have wrongly used religion to manipulate and abuse the faithful. 

If any of you are willing to disclose your experiences in a more formal (not sensational or publicized) manner, I will my friend how we might go about seeking and revealing the truth about what happened at Mt Hope. My email is I am on facebook.

I knew many of you when you were babies. Much of my time was spent in either the kitchen, making you cookies, or in the nursery, changing your diapers and playing with you on the floor. Although I don't believe any of you should have had to spend so much time away from your parents, I have to say that I consider it an honor and a privilege to have cared for you when you were babies. I mostly babysat 6-18 month old children. If you want to know, you were all adorable!!! To my knowledge, you were irresistible to my fellow baby sitters at that age, too. Most of us were teenagers--no training in babysitting, but lots of love...

Hi Steven, if you're still there! In my head you always have chubby cheeks and no teeth.  The thought that anyone ever hit you makes me sick. I never saw it; and I can't even tell you if that's because I wasn't there or because I was blind to it, only that I haven't begun to feel the sorrow I will feel when I am less stunned.

My official babysitting began with Monica and Mary Brigitte (my own niece) and a third baby girl whose name is not coming to my old brain., Louis, Lionel, and Ben. Though I cared for the girls at that time. It ended with the end of Mt Hope in Milford. In Milford I helped to care for Nathaniel, Dominic, Jacqueline, and more for about a year and a half...

So if you were 6 mos old between about 1973 and 198...3? I can tell you how wonderfully sweet you were as a baby!!! And that by at least a few babysitters, you were well-loved in normal holding, feeding, changing, pat-a-caking, singing, gurgling, bouncing, giggling, crawling around on the floor playing ways. That may actually have meaning for you, to know that you were a joy and a blessing, so there is that, at least.


Joanne Ciocys.

Monday, February 15, 2010 - 5:56 PM CST

Name: "Paul J. McNeil"

Joanne, thanks for the straightforward summary of what happened at Mt. Hope and especially the kind words for the kids you took care of. As a lost soul college grad from Providence College in 1972, I was "taken in" by Mt. Hope when I arrived there unannounced one Sunday. I had heard about Mt. Hope from Fr. Tommy Rover and my friend Chuck at PC. It did me a lot of good to arrive there at first. I could feel the sincere affection people there had for each other. It was real. It revived my spirit. After a couple of weeks just hanging out with people, getting to know people, working around the property, I was in Herbert's room with the usual crowd and he was walking from the bathroom to his chair and he stopped to step on my foot and say "How are you doing kid?" I said "Great." He said: "That's what you think". And so began the odd, beyond understadning, cruel, dance with Herbert Schwartz who talked so eloquently about unconditional love but remained eerily unapproachable and secretive and exclusinary, and publicly violent. And yes, I was an "adult", at least in age, and stood by like a mannequin when, out of the blue, someone got slugged in front of everyone in the dining hall. What was I thinking? I wasn't. I had surrended my free will, my personal conscience to this clever, seductively eloquent "teacher" who trashed the traditional church that has so disappointment me during my lifelong Catholic education. I bought his rap - for a while. When Claudia and I married and began our family, things got weirder. He always hated her, making no secret of that in the disdain with which he treated her. Fool that I was, I took his side for a time. Claudia left. she refused to put up with the abuse. I went blindly along, my three children well-cared for by loving people, or so I believed. Readin the horror stories courageously posted by all of you who suffered so much there as children, shames me. I hereby ask your forgiveness for being one of the blind and dumb. Claudia returned, and I finally started to awaken from my long cult slumber. I grew tired of the game of asking to get into Herbert's room, being degraded by him in front of those alrready in the room and not allowed in. A small insult in restrospect compared to the physical and sexual abuse so many of you suffered. I grew tired of trying to get mys elf to aspire to be one of the inner circle or whatever it was. In fact, in the end, I really didn't give a shit about being on Herbert's room, or asking to get in the room or even being at Mt. Hope, except for the friends I had there. So my family and Herbert parted by mutal agreement. Yet we returned occasionally on weekends. We seemed to get better treatment that way. We even went to his funeral. I was not shocked when the truth began to come out in Milford years later, having read so many accounts of men in positions of power using their power to abuse people sexually and physicially. I am very grateful for you courageous people who have shared your suffering. I have long suspected that one or more or my children my have suffered some abuse there when their mother was absent or had them taken away from her (another cruel tactic). Until I read these posts, I had no idea how cruelly you were treated as children. God is love. May you find the peace  you were so cruelly deprived of those many years ago.

Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 10:19 PM CDT

Name: "Jeanne"

Paul, Please give Claudia my love if you are still married.  She was a very special friend to me.  I have so many fond memories of her and our friendship.  We spent a lot of time together when the twins were newborns.  We lost touch but i think of her often.  Jeanne Gavish

Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 7:39 PM CDT

Name: "M......."

Paul.....beautifully written.  Feel free to join us on FB.

Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 5:03 PM CDT

Name: "Sara "

Thank you for father was raised at Mt. Hope.  He is such a strong man and is my role model.  I am blessed to be his daughter..he has taught me so much. 

Friday, November 19, 2010 - 1:30 PM CST

Name: "Mic"

Hi All,

        I just found this site and don't know if my post will get on.  I would love to share my experiences with you all and see how everyone is doing.  I talk to Laurie and Janey regularly but haven't seen anyone else for a while.  I used to see Julie a lot but she has moved. 

         As you all know I finally took off in the middle of the night to get away leaving all of my stuff.  When I came back for it I brought a NYC detective and made him bring his gun.  He scoffed at me till two large gentlemen tried to get me to go see Herbert and he had to draw it to get me away.

           Hope to hear from you.    Micaela 


Thursday, February 2, 2012 - 1:46 AM CST

Name: "Eileen McCarthy"

Lots of suffering.  Covered up.  I love you all though.  Glad to have this access.

Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 4:46 AM CDT

Name: "Paul McNeil"

Jeanne, if you are still out there. Claudia and I are still together. 39 years. I tell her it seems like 50 and she elbows me in the ribs. We have two daughters and six sons between the ages of 27 and 37. Seven grandchildren - 6 boys and 1 girl. It is heart-rending to hear your story and the the stories posted here. I must ask forgiveness for being an adult in the seventies and not standing up, "for what I have done and for what I have failed to do" as we say at Mass in the opening. So, children of Mt. Hope, please forgive me. I love you all.

Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - 10:05 AM CST

Name: waynenpalmer
Home Page:

I was an outside visitor to Mt.Hope for many moons having been introduced to Herbert by a co-worker and I was excited and pleased by the meeting. Herbert was a wonderful man and I find it hard to understand all this. I never thought this could happen, or was happening. There was never any indication anything was wrong, I had the most wonderful days and nights there but never stayed overnight because I worked and lived nearby.I was there when this whole thing about LOGOS started and it was busy, Herbert was having all kinds of meetings and always maintained his warm personality and kindness.I discovered these writings on the internet about him quite by accident after all these years and am shocked by some things I find difficult to imagine.Anyway I miss everyone from Mt.Hope, it was great and hope that anyone who was hurt is doing ok and healing up now, I often pass Mt.Hope, the one big building is still standing (theHouse) and I think the pool is still there, the main house is gone, it looks sad. I wish I could go back and I wish Herbert was still alive and in his room so I could go see him. Good luck to everyone. 

Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 8:24 AM CST

Name: "martha jones koeig"


So happy for you that you have fond memories of Herbert. Since you are in  the area, I would recomend you pay a visit to Herbert's gravestone, behind Holy Name Church in Otisville. I am sorry you hava a hard time believing that life was not all wonderfull at Mount Hope.

It has been knocked over at least twice and you can see what someone's anger has wrought.


Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 11:11 PM CST

Name: waynenpalmer
Home Page:

12/11/2012...Hi Martha: Thankyou for letting me know the site, I will go there to see . I hope you are doing OK. I made many financial contributions to Herbert for Mt.Hope Foundation.Herbert told me time and time again that this money was being used for the care of the children and that they were being looked after 24/7 and not to worry.Now I look after all these years and found out that the checks were signed over to LOGOS and deposited to other accounts but not into Mt.Hopes operating account. This has me in a state of shock. Herbert.....after speaking to me one night.......(after I delivered another big check),.....,,,,,.......I told him some of the children look like they could use some new clothes and shoes and he said "tomorrow we will go get something for everyone"...I guess that went out the window. I am very sad about all this, thankyou for letting me know the update. I just can't understand how I was taken in, and I always thought I was smart......But I was with Herbert one day when he did take 2 car loads of children shopping to Kassel Brothers and bought all kinds of stuff and then came into my store and we went thru his negatives for a picture order. (I owned a photo=finishing business). Nothing ever seemed out of the ordinary.(Except he seemed to demand he always had the last and final say about everything).Anyway this is all in the past a long time ago. But I am going to continue research.I am going to see what I come up with. Thankyou again Martha.

Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 4:00 PM CST

Name: "martha"


My contact info is in a previous post but I reiterate

Give a call

845 255 5572

I lived at Mount Hope from about 1964 till 1974

from the time I was 11 till I was 21


Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 12:06 PM CST

Name: waynenpalmer
Home Page:

ADDENDUM: Recently I discovered these sites about Mt.Hope and Herbert and was quite startled by what I read. And I began to doubt things from my memory about Herbert, such as my contributions to the Foundation and many other small things that came to mind but never did I really think that there was some sort of abuse going on which really left me just so sad I had to conduct an expensive findings report..I have read and re-read this report and will share it with you..I also spoke to a former executive from LOGOS and he did say that Herbert often washed out checks with LOGOS to pay things off and then get the cash back to use as intended,such as paying one credit card off to keep another one at bay. So I did not care about the money anyway.In the report there was a statement that there was never any findings or complaints with police or investigations that took place other than the usual newspaper stories once in a while. I also spoke to one of the Doctors who came once in a while as a week=end visitor and she said also that Herbert really was not the abusive kind of person.(not to say that something could have happened by mistake).Anyway Herbert is now at rest after many years of good work.I miss him and his kindness.I only hope to see Herbert and other Foundation members in the Afterlife and wish everyone well and the best, I miss everyone.Until we meet again,farewell.

Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 12:09 PM CST

Name: waynenpalmer
Home Page:

ADDENDUM: Recently I discovered these sites about Mt.Hope and Herbert and was quite startled by what I read. And I began to doubt things from my memory about Herbert, such as my contributions to the Foundation and many other small things that came to mind but never did I really think that there was some sort of abuse going on which really left me just so sad I had to conduct an expensive findings report..I have read and re-read this report and will share it with you..I also spoke to a former executive from LOGOS and he did say that Herbert often washed out checks with LOGOS to pay things off and then get the cash back to use as intended,such as paying one credit card off to keep another one at bay. So I did not care about the money anyway.In the report there was a statement that there was never any findings or complaints with police or investigations that took place other than the usual newspaper stories once in a while. I also spoke to one of the Doctors who came once in a while as a week=end visitor and she said also that Herbert really was not the abusive kind of person.(not to say that something could have happened by mistake).Anyway Herbert is now at rest after many years of good work.I miss him and his kindness.I only hope to see Herbert and other Foundation members in the Afterlife and wish everyone well and the best, I miss everyone.Until we meet again,farewell.

Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 12:30 PM CST

Name: "anonymous"

Wayne, you are entitled to your opinion but facts are another story. The people you spoke to did not "experience" Herbert's abuse. The people in the blog ae not lying. Herbert had methods that were sick and bad...and serious harm was done to a lot of people especially vulnerable children. My experience began when I was 13 years old...and it was sexual abuse done to me. If you want to research I have given you my contact info...I don' tmake for expensive research. It is free for the asking.

Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 8:54 PM CST

Name: "martha jones koenig"

The Christmas Day post above was from Martha Jones Koenig, Wayne. This forum is maddeningly difficult to post on. Please have the decency to write an e-mail or make the phone call, to add to your expensive research

or pick up a copy of Patron Saint of Butterflies...a fictionalized account of life at Mount Hope, written by a person who was a child at Mount Hope .

It does an excellent job of portraying the feelings of someone who lived at Mount Hope Foundation

Friday, April 20, 2018 - 10:15 AM CDT

Name: "martha"    terminated is now valid

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