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Author
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Topic: Trivia(Archive1)
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Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
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posted 02-28-2002 06:47 PM
Is it that the Forest River does not seem to go through the Old Forest Road? Or is that black river a separate river?
Perhaps it's the mountains of Mirkwood which the company somehow never runs into...
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
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posted 02-28-2002 08:50 PM
Darn it Lugbúrz!!!!! I just found your answer on the way home from school!!! I was going to post it tonight!!! Ahh!!!
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 02-28-2002 09:01 PM
Tenchi my sincere apologies, to you I have to apologize the most because not only did we discuss this but you are new to this thread and hardly get the right feel with a question from me. stay a while and i promise that your experience will be rewarding. for now bear with my question. i can assure you it is better researched than the earlier one. ![[]](icon32.gif)
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 02-28-2002 09:53 PM
What has the Old Forest Road got to do with anything? They never took that Road. They took the elf path to the north.
Am I in a parallel universe or am I just missing something? The Old Forest Road is just where it should be on the map, as is the Enchanted River and the Forest River.
And what answer is Tenchi talking about? I hope it's not the pine tree answer. Does Tenchi have the map answer? If so, why not post it now?
I need to go back on my medication. I'm not getting this. ![[]](icon31.gif)
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
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posted 02-28-2002 10:11 PM
No, I don't have an answer to the recently asked question.
Yes, Lugbúrz, I'm sure I will enjoy myself here. This is much more fun than I had originaly thought it to be!
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 12:27 AM
I am never going to ever, never dare to come to Hong Kong, ever.
I always assumed that the only reason Gandalf brought them south to Beorn's abode was so that they could take the Old Forest Road.
It seems that it was only because the crossing of the River was located there at the "Old Ford"
That taken I now clearly understand that the Elf-path way north is what they were meant to take all along and surely enough all the inconsistensies are now corrected.
I shall now shut up and go back to reading this thread. I hope that Bungo will come up with a question before the rest of you murder me.
Some solace for me is that I cannot spot at any stage in their journey from Beorn's house that they travel so far North before entering the forest. However the Forest Gate is clearly marked at the entrance to the elf-path.
*Proceeds to slunk to the corner at the back and keep reading*
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 01:27 AM
lol
Dear Lugbúrz! You still always post great stuff to read! What a delightful day in Asia this has been.
btw, I did find a slight discrepancy in the map. Or maybe not. The elf-path seems to end at the Elvenking's front door! Of course, it is an elf-path. I'm guessing that the remainder of the path eastwards runs along the south bank of the forest river, to its 'doubtful and little used end'
A new question is forthcoming.
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 01:44 AM
Okay, here's a Musnud question with a set-up. (Although Musnud has never needed to set his questions up, this is inspired again by his apple juice for breakfast with Fili and Kili gem.)
This happened at a book-signing and Q & A thing in Laketown. All the dwarves (who survived) were there and so were the rest of the heros of the adventure in Bilbo's new book. But when it was time to set up the tables for signing autographs, Bombur was put at the last table.
He objected to always being last, and a discussion broke out. Six others claimed to be 'last' at least once in the story. As Thorin was not there, (may his Arkenstone shine forever,) it was Gandalf who pointed out that even Thorin was last twice; into the mess with the trolls, and the last to expire on the field of battle, (may his name be etched in granite).
So, with the exception of Thorin who was not there, (may his tassels gleam in the gloom), here is the question. (It's not hard at all. In fact, if you know where to look, you can answer it after a few panoramic minutes going end to end in our favorite tale. But you will need the book...)
Which characters (and how often) had a turn at 'being last'? (including Bombur) Please specify each situation.
For the record, and I don't claim to be authoritative, I counted 16 specific times when we can identify the last person doing something, not counting Thorin (may his... oh never mind.)
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 01:49 AM
post script: Knowing human nature as we all do, (and dwarf nature too I suppose, and the other characters who may or may not be included in this) I must add this: If two people were last together, they will both credit it to their own account. In other words, one situation may account for two 'last's, if two, say, walked together. ![[]](icon41.gif)
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 01:52 AM
Now I have to somehow figure out how I can participate in this wonderful game without ever having to ask a question...
This is surely a curse. But I shall remain a stupid mute. ![[]](icon34.gif)
Maybe it will help if people didn't come up with such beautiful questions...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 04:30 AM
know! By answering what is not asked!!
Thorin(in heaven, may his beard be as short as mine) was also the last when he was intorduced by Gandalf to Bilbo at the unexpected party. Although Bofur, Bifur and poor fat Bombur (considering this tale to be of long ago, may his grave have lots of space)were next to him
Bungo, check your Private Message ![[]](icon30.gif) Don't faint though!
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Marcho Blackwood, MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270
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posted 03-01-2002 07:52 AM
And, of course, Kili and Fili are not at the signing. Which begs the question, was Bombur so fat he couldn't share a table with one other? Or was it three to a table?
Note: On the topic of the last discussion, Gandalf originally intended them to take the road to the south through Mirkwood
quote:
But we are not at the point to which our pass would have brought us; we are too far to the North
We can take the 'too far to the North' to mean that the original route was far South of Beorn's.
From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 08:08 AM
Okay, forget the book signing set up. It gets in the way. Let's just ask the question of who all was last and how often and when.
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
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posted 03-01-2002 08:48 AM
Okay, you've got Bombur arriving last at Bilbo's house in the beginning and last at Beorn's house. Plus he was the last to go across the enchanted river. And finally, along with Bofur, he was the last to enter the secret door in Erebor.
Bifur and Bofur also arrived last with him at Bilbo's house, and you could "say" that they arrived together at Beorn's as well (although Bombur was a few seconds behind them). And Bofur was also the last to enter the secret door in Erebor (along with Bombur).
Kili and Fili were the last to arrive with the group when they first escaped the goblins. And Fili was the last to be released from the spiders.
As they ran away from the goblins, Dori was at the tail end. And he also just barely escaped the wargs, as he was the last to jump into the tree. And finally, he was the last to be rescued by the eagles (if you don't count Bilbo).
Dwalin is the last dwarf mentioned in the song by the elves at Rivendell. He was also the last to go across the enchanted river along with Bombur.
Balin was the last to escape the wood-elves in the barrels. He was also the last dwarf to visit Bilbo's house (at least, as far as it's mentioned in the book).
I'm sure there's more instances, but I'm weary now... ![[]](icon26.gif)
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
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posted 03-01-2002 11:46 AM
Ah let's see, I'm just going to add on to Musnud's post:
quote:
Poor fat Bombur was asleep or senseless; Dori, Nori, Ori, Oin and Gloin were watterlogged and seemed only half alice; they all had to be carried one by one and laid helpless on the shore.
If by releasing the dwarfs in the manner of listing their names, then Gloin would have been the last one out of the barrels.
quote:
Good old Bilbo - Bilbo - Bilbo - bo - bo - bo' And then he fell asleep, and there was complete silence for a long while.
Balin was the 'last' to fall asleep after the encounter with the spiders in Mirkwood, although I don't really think this would qualify.
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
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Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
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posted 03-01-2002 01:35 PM
Hey Tenchi! I had considered that Gloin one... ![[]](icon5.gif) ...but it really doesn't make it very clear that they are being dragged out in any particular order, so I'm not sure about that one. The only thing they really clarify is that Bilbo, Thorin, Kili, and Fili were already out to help rescue the others (I think Bombur was too, but he was waterlogged and half asleep).
Good point with the Balin reference and the spiders, though. ![[]](icon14.gif) I must have missed that. ![[]](icon53.gif)
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eöl the Dark Elf
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 411
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posted 03-01-2002 02:25 PM
This may be stretching it a little but:
quote:
...and so they dropped off to sleep one by one...
It turned out a good thing that night that they had brought little Bilbo with them, after all. For somehow, he could not go to sleep for a long while...
In the cave: coud this mean that he was last to sleep?
quote:
"Are we all here?" said he, handing his sword back to Thorin with a bow. "Let me see: one-that's Thorin; two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven; where are Fili and Kili? Here they are, twelve, thirteen-and here's Mr. Baggins: fourteen!
On escaping the Goblins
Can we be this loose with the question?
From: Nan Elmoth | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Laurenendôrian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 106
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posted 03-01-2002 03:00 PM
This question seems rather open ended - not that that's a bad thing.
My ideas:
-Bilbo was the last to become involved in the plan.
-Thorin (do we include him or not?) was the last to be caught by the trolls.
-but Gandalf was the last to come across the trolls.
-Bilbo was the last out of the Goblins' caves.
-Bilbo was the last out of the Elven-King's halls.
-Bard was the last to stand on Esgaroth.
-Bilbo was the last to get up into a tree, but Dori was the last to leave the ground before being picked up by the eagles.
-Gandalf was the last to enter the goblin cave.
Do we have many left to go?
From: Laurenendôr | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
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posted 03-01-2002 03:32 PM
I don't really think it's a 'last', but Bilbo was the last character of the group to return to his home, save Gandalf.
Bilbo too was the last to fall asleep at Beorn's
quote:
He snuggled into them very gladly, summertime though it was. . .: the fire had now sunk to al few embers; the dwarves and Gandalf were all asleep, to judge by their breathing; a splash fo white. . .
* * * * *
When asking of 'lasts' are you asking that all the group has had a turn, or that a character was 'last' in a particular event?
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 04:15 PM
If Bungo actually did mean to include Bilbo and Gandalf in the count also is not very clear. But since people have included them in their answers, this is one they have left out:
Bilbo was the last (behind which dwarf?) when the goblins bound the fourteen of them and took them into the caves to the Great Goblin.
Here's the quote:
quote:
The goblins chained their hands behind their
backs and linked them all together in a line and dragged them to the far end
of the cavern with little Bilbo tugging at the end of the row.
And if I might add Bilbo possibly deserves to be included because he sure felt bad being nearly left behind a couple of times (one of which is at the top the trees as Musnud has mentioned)
Bilbo was also soon the last in the group that trooped out of the Green Dragon, which can be seen from this quote:
quote:
"To think it will soon be June," grumbled Bilbo as he splashed along behind the others in a very muddy track.
Marcho: I do remember that quote and here's another to suggest they wanted to go south:
quote:
No! we are glad to cheat the goblins of their sport, and glad to
repay our thanks to you, but we will not risk ourselves for dwarves in the
southward plains."
Spoken by the Lord of the Eagles. But I fear that these only show that Gandalf meant to cross the river there and never actually enter Mirkwood. Because they never appear to change their plans...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
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posted 03-01-2002 04:23 PM
Oh. I didn't know we were including Bilbo. I thought he was just referring to the dwarves who came last. If that's the case, then I believe that some of my references were not accurate, since Bilbo followed the dwarves in many instances (i.e. falling behind Dori under the mountains)... ![[]](icon52.gif)
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 04:42 PM
Musnud: If we read Bungo's question it is pretty clear from the introduction that he didn't mean to count Bilbo but the question itself states "characters" and not "dwarves" making this ambiguous.
However, keeping with pledge of answering what is not asked I have made the previous observations.
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 05:19 PM
Sorry, I have no time now for much comment, but I did mean to include Bilbo, and every other good character in the book, except Thorin for some stupid reason, and Fili and Kili, being dead and not in the discussion. Bilbo was actually last more often than anyone. I'll be back to comment on your answers so far. You are all about half-way there. ![[]](icon56.gif)
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
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posted 03-01-2002 06:12 PM
This might be an add-on if you include all "kindly" souls:
Beorn was the last to arrive at the Battle of Five Armies. Here's the quote:
quote:
In that last hour Beorn himself had appeared...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
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Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
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posted 03-01-2002 06:42 PM
Oh! No time!
I'll post something after 10pm Chicago time. This should not be too open-ended. Anything really obscure, or what couldn't be proved in a court of law, will not count. (ie: Gloin on the river bank.) And let's forget my stupid set-up and include Thorin and Fili and Kili if you want. Although Fili was not the last one rescued from the spiders. We can't really know who that was.)
I'll be back.
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
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