|
Author
|
Topic: Trivia(Archive1)
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-27-2002 11:35 PM
I see that only Tenchi and Mr. Baggins have had a go at my question. Ok let me give them some feedback:
I am not clarifying whether the names you have guessed are correct or wrong. I am clarifying the references.
Tenchi: The oak you refer to unfortunaely is too deep inside Mirkwood ![[]](frown.gif)
Bungo: If you care to look at the map, what Bilbo saw at the Carrock from the fly-ride will hardly count as Mirkwood.
As for the description of the trees, it is but a guess.
Let me say that you may not be able to name and prove all the trees, but there is a specific refernce that definitely proves one kind of tree was indeed present...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
|
posted 02-28-2002 12:47 AM
quote:
The entrance to the path was like a sort of arch leading into a gloomy tunnel made by two great trees that leant together, too old and strangled with ivy and hung with lichen to bear more than a few blackened leaves.
This is the only quote I could find referring to the tress on the outskirts of Mirkwood. However, it never mentions the name of the trees.
My guess would have to be apple, since the elves in Mirkwood ship so many apples to Laketown, but I don't know how I would clarify that.
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
|
posted 02-28-2002 12:55 AM
Well, you've stumped me, Lugbúrz. I'll have to wait for the more learned Mr. Blackwood to weigh in, or some of our other more deft wordsmiths.
However, I'm trusting that the answer is found in The Hobbit and you don't need an undergraduate degree in forestry in order to identify the trees simply from their description. Like Musnud, all I can find is a picture of "trunks...huge and gnarled", "branches twisted, ...their leaves dark and long", "ivy... trailed along the ground", "hung with lichen" and "tangled boughs and matted twigs".
Not being a tree surgeon myself, I'm sticking with Elm. I believe I'm barking up the right one, too.
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 01:01 AM
Indeed , I am not inconsiderate Mr. Baggins, except perhaps in some Scrambles which are then promptly solves in spite of them being difficult.
You require only the text and my guess would be any edition ![[]](smile.gif)
This might take longer than at first it suggests.
Musnud: As for the reference being Eleves and their apple trees, this would take us way off East and would not answer my question, but perhaps if you have a refernce that the whole of Mirkwood had apple trees, then this might indeed be a valid answer.
I am still laughing at Bungo's post ![[]](icon30.gif)
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 02:19 AM
For those who have joined us recently I just wanted to throw in a word of caution, and perhaps a request to everyone else as well for this question: I wouldn't want anyone to use any form of word search on electronic copies of the book.
I know that perhaps keeping with the excellent tradition and capabilities of the participants here, this might have always been an understood convention.
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 11:44 AM
One question? Is the answer in the chapter of Flies and Spiders at all?
My guess: Were they Christmas/pine trees? Or could it be the oak-wood forest part where Beorn lived?
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marcho Blackwood, MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270
|
posted 02-28-2002 12:00 PM
Well, I was thinking about a trivia question that involved what types of trees are mentioned in the book.
But perhaps Beeches is the answer, because that is the elves' favorite tree and they were found around the edges of of Mirkwood.
(And I always try to word my questions so that a search of an electronic version is of no value!)
From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 12:06 PM
Oh yes! One more though, also within the forest/outside of Mirkwood there too are Elm trees.
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marcho Blackwood, MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270
|
posted 02-28-2002 12:14 PM
The only other thing I have found is the aforementioned
quote:
Their trunks were huge and gnarled, their branches twisted, their leaves were dark and long. Ivy grew on them and trailed along the ground.
The image this brings to mind is either an old oak or perhaps a great weeping willow, but it isn't enough to identify a species with.
From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 02:09 PM
No marks fo guessing, sorry.
I need you to be dead sure...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 02:36 PM
Marcho: How do you know that Beeches were found along the western edges of Mirkwood? If you know this, it may be the answer ![[]](icon28.gif) ![[]](icon33.gif)
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marcho Blackwood, MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270
|
posted 02-28-2002 03:47 PM
The Beeches come from
quote:
In fact the subjects of the king mostly lived and hunted in the open woods, and had houses or huts on the ground and in the branches. The beeches were their favorite trees.
But, no definitive link to the Western side of Mirkwood.
However, how about this: Beorn 'lived on the edge of Mirkwood' (see quote above regarding trusting siblings). Just prior to arriving at Beorn's house:
quote:
Sometimes they rested under the trees, and then Bilbo felt so hungry that he would have eaten acorns, if any had been ripe enough yet to have fallen to the ground.
Therefore, Oaks would be the answer.
From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 03:54 PM
quote:
The water flowed dark and swift and strong beneath; and at the far end were gates before the mouth of a huge cave that ran into the side of a steep slope covered with trees. There the beeches came right down into the bank, till their feet were in the stream.
Taking time to look at my handy dandy map in the back of my copy of TH, the Elven King's Hall lies on the Western edge of Mirkwood. It too lies close/nearby the Forest River, which in turn flows into the Running River and by Long Lake. This would make their escape by geography correct.-
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:05 PM
Tenchi: If you look at the handy dandy map you will notice that the Elven King's halls are at the Eastern edge of Mirkwood.
Marcho: I have spotted your quote regarding acorns, a good find, but again if you look at the map, the distance is large. Although this might be a good indication that oaks were indeed there, it is still not proof. Trees after Beorn's house may be considered more favorably.
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:11 PM
Ah yes, stupid me, I just got too carried away. . .
quote:
On the Map the compass points are marked in runes, with East being on top, as usual in dwarf-maps, and so read clockwise: E(ast), S(outh), W(est), N(orth).
When looking at the front of my copy of TH, the Elven King's Hall lies in what is opposite of East - West. Therefore, according to the use of the Map of Thorin's Grandfather, the Western edge of Mirkwood would lie with the Elven King's Hall, which contained in various places Beech Trees.
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:18 PM
Tenchi, I think you are confused.
If we go with the map by Thror then you must remember that Mirkwood is just beginning and lies to the west of the map's boundaries. The Elven King's hall is indicated to be at the edge of the map and thus would lie at the Eastern edge of Mirkwood. You might want to take a look at the other map with the whole of Mirkwood to clarify this issue...
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:24 PM
Ah yes, you're correct.
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:31 PM
Ok let me help you out with this one. Dwarvish maps had the convention of showing East on top and North to the left of the page. This is only a convention . We on the other hand liked north facing up and east to the right of the page.
Both maps are consistent with each other. If you take Thror's map and rotate it by a right angle in the clockwise direction, you will have north facing the top and you will see river running flowing north-south, which is also the case in the other map.
This being somewhat apart from the question at hand, let us accept that any tree shown to be present just at or near the Elven King's hall will not be accepted as the answer.
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tenchi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 887
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:32 PM
Yes, yes, you're correct.
From: Does it matter? | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 04:52 PM
Ok first of all let me apologize profusely for this. This question seems to be wrong ![[]](icon21.gif)
I went and reread my reference since nobody had got it. Here it is:
quote:
Far over Mirkwood tidings spread: "Smaug is dead!" Leaves rustled and startled ears were lifted. Even before the Elvenking rode forth the news had passed west right to the pinewoods of the Misty Mountains ...
Unfortunately I mistook to mean the other edge of the forest befre giving thought to the last 2 words . I am very sorry. I think I will forfiet this chance.
Maybe Tenchi can post a question.
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Musnud
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 720
|
posted 02-28-2002 05:02 PM
Tsk tsk tsk....
![[]](icon17.gif)
From: Tulsa, OK, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
|
posted 02-28-2002 06:05 PM
Can you hear me howling in Hong Kong?
JRR would turn over in his grave to imagine the romantic evergreen of Pine growing among the gloomy Elms at the entrance to Mirkwood.
btw, I don't have my book with me, but in my second Canadian edition, Gandalf mentioned the elms during the Unexpected Party at Bilbo's house.
Thorin said, "After that [the Long Lake] the trouble would begin-" Gandalf replied with, "A long time before that, if I know anything about the roads East! When you pass through the gnarled, twisted Elm trees at the entrance of Mirkwood, with their black leaves and lichen, beware! Don't leave the path!"
So there. ![[]](icon47.gif)
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 06:06 PM
Sincerely awaiting more rebuking. ![[]](icon34.gif)
Ok that was my first time quota. I know all of you are nice people. (hoping) ![[]](icon19.gif)
I don't see Tenchi anywhere, so after a lot of research this time I am giving this question to keep the thread going.
This is something that struck me the first time I read the Hobbit. But it will require you to have the map at the end of the book which I hope you will have in one of your Hobbit copies.
Here's the question:
Spot at least one major inconsistency between the map and the text of the Hobbit
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lugbúrz
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 867
|
posted 02-28-2002 06:12 PM
Bungo: that is totally cool, I will try to check with the new edition too.
Now I don't know what to do because we have an answer and I just posted a fresh question ![[]](icon56.gif)
Bungo, it's your call. Knowing you, I am sure you wouldn't mind my question.
*Hears a lot more howling*
From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bungo
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 278
|
posted 02-28-2002 06:15 PM
Your question is okay. Another fun brain twister. We're off to the races again.
And have fun looking for the second Canadian edition. It's out of print.
From: Kowloon, Hong Kong | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
