Topic: Demo Fables
My good friend Buster Block over at Inmuscatine sent me a thought provoking request yesterday
I need some help on a story about Hillary Clinton ceding powers if elected President. She said : > "Other presidents like Lincoln have had to take on extraordinary > powers but would later go to the Congress for either ratification > or rejection." > > She continued: "There were a lot of actions which they took that > were clearly beyond any power the Congress would have granted or > that in my view that was inherent in the constitution. There were > other actions they've taken which could have obtained congressional > authorization but they deliberately chose not to pursue it as a > matter of principle." > > Here I asked whether a sitting president, once invested with such > powers, could really give some of them up in the name of > constitutional principle. Clinton said: "Oh, absolutely, Michael. I > mean that has to be part of the review that I undertake when I get > to the White House, and I intend to do that." > I simply do not have time to do the research necessary to do this justice, but I know this is right up your alley. Do you feel like a cross-post with me if you can shed some light on this? Oh, and by the way - the MSM is ignoring this completely, so we have to do something about it.
My first reaction was that the concept of a Clinton ceding power boggles the mind and I should form a new topic for Demo Fables and put this in with:
But why don't we explore this issue and then go over to Buster at Inmuscatine and see what his take on it is?
Here are the pertinent URLs
It is very easy for a politician to make claims, lets look at one of them
"Well, I think it is clear that the power grab undertaken by the Bush-Cheney administration has gone much further than any other president and has been sustained for longer," Clinton said.
So what power grabs could she be speaking of and has Bush indeed pushed the envelope further than any other president
Well one issue that comes to mind is waging War against a Non-State Association of Muslim Terrorists without a Declaration of War. Further complaints on this issue have been worded "How can you declare War on an entity that is not a State?"
It turns out the Nation has faced this very same issue in the Past. As a matter of fact the very first Land Military action by the United States after the Revolutionary War was against a Non-State Association of Muslim Terrorists named the Barbary Pirates.
Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and the Congress of the Day discussed whether or not it was necessary to issue a Formal Declaration of War and decided that since our Sovereignty, and our Citizens had been attacked we were in fact in a State of War and while a Formal Declaration might be needed to initiate a War the point was moot. So Jefferson sent in the Marines to deal with the matter.
Notice that they did not even discuss whether or not they should respond militarily??
What other Presidents have exceeded their Constitutional Powers? Well when Andrew Jackson decided to move the Cherokee Nation upon being told that the Supreme Court had denied him that power, replied "John Marshall has made his decision; let him enforce it now if he can"
I don't recall Bush ever going to that extreme, but I do recall Dick Gephardt telling Rainbow Push after the Surpreme Court issued a ruling he and they did not agree with that
When I'm president, we'll do executive orders to overcome any wrong thing the Supreme Court does tomorrow or any other day.
But maybe that does not count, because he was never nominated, much less elected thank God.
Mention was made of Lincoln.
"Other presidents, like Lincoln, have had to take on extraordinary powers but would later go to Congress for either ratification or rejection
Could she have been referring to Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus?
With Congress not in session until July, Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. In 1861, Lincoln had already suspended civil law in territories where resistance to the North's military power would be dangerous. In 1862, when copperhead democrats began criticizing Lincoln's violation of the Constitution, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus throughout the nation and had many copperhead democrats arrested under military authority because he felt that the State Courts in the north west would not convict war protesters such as the copperheads. He proclaimed that all persons who discouraged enlistments or engaged in disloyal practices would come under Martial Law.
Among the 13,000 people arrested under martial law was a Maryland Secessionist, John Merryman. Immediately, Hon. Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States issued a writ of habeas corpus commanding the military to bring Merryman before him. The military refused to follow the writ. Justice Taney, in Ex parte MERRYMAN, then ruled the suspension of habeas corpus unconstitutional because the writ could not be suspended without an Act of Congress. President Lincoln and the military ignored Justice Taney's ruling.
Now here is an interesting factoid about the above suspension
Finally, in 1866, after the war, the Supreme Court officially restored habeas corpus in Ex-parte Milligan, ruling that military trials in areas where the civil courts were capable of functioning were illegal.
April 9, 1865 - Gen. Robert E. Lee surrenders
April 15, 1865 - President Abraham Lincoln dies
Notice habeous corpus was not reinstated until long after the War was over and Lincoln was dead?
There may be some mutterings about Gitmo, but there are NOT thousand of War Protestors in prison camps and none of them have been sentenced to be executed.
FDR had his camps too, Japanese, Italian, Germnan-Americans many of them citizens interred.
I will not debate here whether it was Constitutional I just wish to point our that the statement
"The power grab undertaken by the Bush-Cheney administration has gone much further than any other president and has been sustained for longer," she said. "Other presidents, like Lincoln, have had to take on extraordinary powers but would later go to Congress for either ratification or rejection."
Would be ideal to plow into the ground to inspire turnips.
What I, myself find most interesting is that in responce to this question
I want to start with some questions about foreign policy and terrorism. If you become president you'll enter the White House with far more power than, say, your husband had. What is your view of this? And what specific powers might you relinquish as president, or renegotiate with Congress - for example the power to declare a US citizen an enemy combatant
Well, I think it is clear that the power grab undertaken by the Bush-Cheney administration has gone much further than any other president and has been sustained for longer. Other presidents, like Lincoln, have had to take on extraordinary powers but would later go to the Congress for either ratification or rejection. But when you take the view that they're not extraordinary powers, but they're inherent powers that reside in the office and therefore you have neither obligation to request permission nor to ask for ratification, we're in a new territory here. And I think that I'm gonna have to review everything they've done because I've been on the receiving end of that. There were a lot of actions which they took that were clearly beyond any power the Congress would have granted or that in my view that was inherent in the constitution. There were other actions they've taken which could have obtained congressional authorization but they deliberately chose not to pursue it as a matter of principle
Some one point out to me where in the above she responds to what specific powers might you relinquish as president, or renegotiate with Congress????
As far as I can tell she definitely said she would review Presidential Powers but she is real shy about what she want to get rid of.
As to her desire for Power itself? Is not one of her major campaign planks a plant to Nationalise an Industry that comprises 1/7th of the US Economy?
Now that is what I call a Power Grab. I would like someone to show me where in the Constitution the Federal Govenment has the right to do that?
There is an old Fable that goes
”It was really cold and a nice lady had a warm blanket. A poisonous snake nearby was shivering and begged the lady just to pick him up long enough for him to get warm. She resisted saying "you are a poisonous snake and you will bite me and I'll die!" He begged and pleaded and promised not to bite her so she finally gave in and picked him up and wrapped him in the blanket. He bit her and as she was laying there dying she asked "why did you bite me - you promised you wouldn't?" As he slithered away he looked back and said: "Lady you knew I was a snake when you picked me up
I submit that before we pick up this viper and hold it to our breast, we need to think real on what we know about it.
Now let's see what Buster;s take is over at Inmuscatine