NT Points of view...
A series of posts in a conversational style:
KMH: Just this morning, we had our usual diatribe...you know, I state
something about how I feel and he immediately goes into *his story* , defensive
mode, without validating me. I pointed this out, he said curtly, okay go on,
and I just refused to do so.
He'll have to do that long AS stewing process before he *gets it*, I suppose!
SW: My husband still does this, as well, unfortunatly. It's never about me...always him, him, him. And, when I point it out, he does exactly the same thing: get defensive, stews, etc. We've never learned how to overcome this, though he totally realizes he does it, he can't help it. Fortunately, we've gotten to the point in most areas where we don't get into the situation nearly as much as we once did.
KMH: This is what I have been thinking lately: that, due to their extreme
egocentricity, Aspies feel guilt in lieu of empathy.If I tell R. how I feel
about something he did, he feels guilt instead of empathy if my feeling is
negative; and self-congrats instead of empathy if my feeling is positive.
Since he abhors feeling guilt, he cannot bear any kind of conflict.
So, how to help him move from guilt and self-congrats to empathy...for me,
THAT is the biggie. I try to help by putting up frig notes such as, "To admit
one is wrong is to declare one is wiser now than before", and the like.
What do you think ?
SW: That is exactly what my husband does with guilt and self-congrats. If he does something "wrong," he can spend days or weeks in a spiral of guilt. Not about me, of course...but about himself being wrong. The notes may help, but it seems no matter how much my husband and I discuss it or how we discuss it, nothing really makes a difference. He's an avid reader, and has even read some things with this theme, which he sees and logically understands, but is simply doesn't apply to him.
He says he becomes scared he'll do everything wrong if he stops to think about it (note that he never says he's scared he'll end up hurting me more or anything like that, but rather that HE will be WRONG again..ugh!), then starts to really doubt himself as a person, and it gets worse from there. No amount of sharing the wrongs I've commited myself, talking about how humans, in general, make mistakes--the important thing is to own up to them and work to correct them, etc.--has made any difference whatsoever. Regardless of how I bring thngs up (and we've consistently tried many, many different tactics), it's the same end result. It's the one area we have made absolutely no progress in, aside from trying to correct the "wrongs" before he makes them.
I guess, for us, I've come to the conclusion I am not going to get him to move to empathy. We are working on how he says things, and teaching him wording that isn't alwasy ego-driven, but it'll never be the same as feeling true empathy, I don't think. I suppose I've resigned it to being part of his AS and something he'll never have, much like a person who's lost both eyes will never see again, and expecting them to compliment your new dress will bring constant dissapointment (I tend to work well in analogies--they help me relate my situation to that of others). Has your husband shown any inclination towards being able to empathize?
Now, my husband can feel large amounts of sympathy, which is helpful, but not the same thing. And, if often takes him a while to tap that and start feeling it. Once he does, however, he can use that in place of empathy for certain situations. It's never intuitive, really, but it is sincere.
"George Carlin had an HBO special where he did his spin on wors in the English language. *Soon* being inferred as one of the most emotionally manipulative words. I never related so much to the point he made as when I heard the word over and over again from my Aspie guy. He used the word consistently - with each use I'd feel that twang in my gut."–T
"And your-in-laws will tell you that YOU need psychiatric help (because
you loose your patience with his behaviour). And your selfesteem will flow
underground, friends won't visit you anymore, you won't trust anyone anymore
and so on!
When I read all these postings I'm very astonished I'm still coping and alive.
But with the support that comes from reading (and the laughing things too),
and the aknowledge that I'm not alone and have supporters all over the world
who understand because they had the same experiences, life is worth living
again! " --R
Replying to another poster's situation: "Wow. Another twin moment in the relationship spectrum...
'He was sincere in his total impossiblity.'
That says it all.
And, 'J finally opened up enough to complain that I "cussed" him. Damn
right I did! It's much more black and white, in the most childlike way, in
there, we just can't imagine it. The computation of self and other--beyond
simplistic, and these are not stupid men. Broken, in his head.'
I understand this completely!!! ALL of it.
Were we with the same man? The same low-functioning, sweet & tender little
boy/man? The one who touched a place in your heart from a time long ago. Woke
it up? Made it alive? But killed the rational thinking adult woman and everything
she ever held dear in her mind?" -T
"My dh's meltdowns can take any number of forms; chewing out the kids,
arguing with no sense to it, or going and zombie-ing out in the hammock or
in front of the TV. I guess it is maybe good that some of his meltdowns are
also his coping strategies...He can just shut down...or he can dig in his
heels and fight something or someone long past its usefulness..." This sounds
alot like my ex too. Not daily, but maybe monthly. He would totally VEG in
front of the TV for HOURS on a daily basis. But about once a month he would
just EXPLODE and pick something to just babble and yell about that made no
sense. It didn't matter how many facts I had to show that it was not the way
he was portraying it, he just kept twisting every lil detail to just argue.
And then bam, after he was done, it was literally like he forgot it all ever
happened." --C
"If you're thinking about marrying an ASpie, you need to be thinking
about things way beyond Valentine's day and dates. My husband was *very* romantic
when we were dating. Not only did he get me a card on Valentine's day, but
a gift, as well. Then marriage came along, and then my son was born, and that's
when the problems started.
You need to consider that life will throw curves at you, and it can be difficult
even for two emotionally mature and healthy people to get through the difficulties.
Ideally, your husband is a partner, and you face life's problems together.
Many of us who have spent decades married to ASpies will tell you that your
ASpie husband will *not* be partner in the sense of sharing life's burdens.
He will be one more child in your house." --My
"Hi, I am fairly new to this forum. I am married to an AS man for 25 years. I am confused by this forum and will need time to navigate this. We have been incounseling for two years now, with very little i provement from my husband, but small changes have occurred. I have been so lonely and unhappyu for years and years, until this mystery was finally resolved about four months ago. I am now dealing with this, and also the fact that my husband does not know, would never accept it and he does not think there is any problem with his behavior. So it is indeed a lonely position. I do have good close friends to confide in, but the stress is unbearable at times." --C
Maybe the hardest part is that, when I do give in to the temptation to say, "Oh, it's ok, I was just being crazy," he is so happy to just let it go at that and to think that "we've figured everything out, and it's really all ok now." I KNOW that he will take what I say literally. I KNOW that it's part of the syndrome. But I want so much for him to say, "No, you're not crazy. There are real issues here, and I appreciate that you struggle with them. I struggle with them, too. We're in this together."
Day-to-day life has gotten smoother since I've stopped defining his reactions to sensory overload (noise, confusion, crowds, emotional discussions) as personal rejection, and since he's realized that his experience of the world is not the same as mine - that it is helpful if he can stop and explain to me what he IS reacting to, and how I can help rather than just shutting me out. He is learning that sometimes I need to hear the words and be brought the flowers, and feel the small touches of closeness and appreciation. I am learning that, emotions are there, even if deeply buried, and difficult to access and to understand." - in reply to an AS husband.
"What amazes me is the amount of press Asperger's is getting, but it's all about children. Do they think this neurological wiring just appeared a few years ago? And I can't believe they all think that none of these kids grow up to be normal enough to hold jobs and attempt relationships. I think one of the reasons may be that too many of the experts in these technical fields may be slightly affected themselves and can't see it!" --M
"Of the hundreds (nearly a thousand) visitors to this forum, it is amazing how many have told the same story of unrecognized, undiagnosed, and worse, unaccepted AS." --M
"Personally I didn’t realise how acute my husbands problems were until after we were married. When under stress he loses the ability to “mimic”. We didn’t experience stress before we married so, no, I didn’t marry him this way. I suspect the same is true for many of the other women posting here.
Most of us were also married years before AS was generally recognised so had no idea why our husbands often behaved so inappropriately. It’s all very well with the benefit of hindsight to say we should have taken AS into account but we simply had no idea what we were dealing with.
“I am sensitive torwards my wife because she has to deal with me, and she is patient, but she also lets me know I am getting overstimulated and to control further turmoil for both of us, we use a keyword and say ok lets talk later about the subject of discussion.”
The partners of most of the women here are in denial and refuse to accept they have AS. I’m one of the lucky ones. My husband has an official diagnosis which he accepts, and he’s trying to improve his communication skills and moderate his behaviour. I appreciate the courage it must have taken for him to eventually admit he had a problem and the work he puts into improving our marriage even if, like me, he’s not always successful. Assuming the AS partner refuses to cooperate (extremely common on this forum at least) then the non AS partner has nothing to work with.
As you yourself admit, living with someone with AS can be extremely frustrating. No matter how much I care about my husband it can also be lonely, and sometimes hurtful. One of the reasons I come here is to vent. For me at least it’s far better than working out my frustration on him, which would only make him anxious and upset. I also helps me to come to terms with the 25 often (although not always) unhappy years we spent together before he was finally prepared to accept he had a problem."--B
"In my case, it really *did* "just materialize" AFTER we were married. We didn't know that he had AS, and we didn't live together before we were married. We didn't know his mother had it, nor did his family bother to tell us there were people in the family already diagnosed with it. He had his quirks, but nothing I found irritating. Actually, I still find most of them endearing to this day. It wasn't until AFTER the marriage, AFTER we begain living together, that most of the symptoms had any reason to show up.
We tried to do things "right," and save the living together, etc. for the actual marriage. We went to counseling once we found things going awry, which just made things much worse. We realized AFTER we got married...that sex was also affected for him--meaning, there couldn't ever be any sexual intimacy due to his sensory issues. Period. And, no children. We searched for answers for so long, and we've both been through so much....He "shut down" from the stress of our search for answers, despite the fact that we were doing it together.He can't manage anger at all, either his or other people's, so I've had to learn to conceal most of my emotions or take them out some other way. We did everything we were told to do, and it only made things worse. So, please don't generalize about what we did and didn't know, how we should and shouldn't react.... I resent the implications ... that the spouses of those with AS are simply unwilling to work at communication and coping skills. That isn't true for most of us--we cope every day, and sometimes just need a place to vent on the bad days. If we weren't willing to cope, to be patient, to stick it out, to be loving, we wouldn't be here. We'd be packing our things and walking out the door. My husband and I worked EXCEPTIONALLY hard at communication skills every day." --Dona
Responding to a post on asking what has bewildered her most about her marriage to an AS man: "Oh, you know...how to live with an Aspie man, how to tell when he needs looking after and when he doesn't, learning what he can and cannot cope with in various aspects of life, what AS information is relevant to us and what to ignore, finding out what is to change now he is not 'pretending to be normal', adjusting to this new life...
I didn't know what to expect in my married life, but I wasn't expecting this! ;-) " --P
"As I deal with ending a 34 year marriage, I am remembering the words of a consultant who specializes in AS when I asked about long-term relationships with ASPies. "Those who are married to them are called saints." I reached a point where I could simply no longer deal with it or with him. His reaction: I am the crazy one and he is fine. I am the controlling one and he is the poor victim." --J.
"With Asperger's, life is a stage," Attwood said. "The curtain goes up while they are in public and down when they are at home. Because other people do not see the problem, they question your sanity--you are on your own. In some families, denial has held the family together for generations, and you want to bring down the scaffolding." --Tony Attwood, leading expert on AS
"For me it definitely came down to, do I want to try to teach him the lacking skills, starting with the easiest/most glaring areas, or do I want to be divorced. The jury is still out, but for now I prefer to be married, even tho it is often unsatisfactory. Being divorced will also often be unsatisfactory, I suspect."--K
