Cleo on Ted (like white on rice)

"k" wrote:

I think you read more into what August posted than was there, Cleo.

That may be true. I told you why I thought it was funny. If August meant something different, you'll have to take it up with August.


No, what it looks like is making fun of taking kids bowling as opposed to the opera or something. It sounded snobbish now that I've gone back and read it.

That's not what I saw at all. The way I read it is this: Ted wants us all to feel guilty for being mean to him because he took his foster son bowling for his birthday. Taking a kid bowling is not Nobel Prize material. It's nice, and fun, and I've done it myself, but it doesn't make an evil person into a nice guy. Ted is still a man who advocates systematically humiliating women in order to control their sexuality.


Don't you think there may have been a better way to criticize him than you and August did?

My intent was to congratulate August on a good point which he made eloquently and economically. But yeah, there probably are lots better ways. They don't work, though. Ted doesn't see the evil in what he said. He writes it off as "talking about groups, not individuals" as if writing "all the women in Smith Hall" on the bulletin board is somehow better than saying "Sarah and Diane and Mary and Sue." He even tried to make this point by saying "All Japanese people suck" was not as bad as "Cleo sucks." You know, if I were Japanese, I'm not sure I'd see much of a difference. As an example, remember your own reaction to statements about what you believed was an attack on SAHM's, or remember Ted and/or georgann's reaction to percieved attacks on Christians. My posts to and about Ted are no longer about showing him the other side of the story. He doesn't want to see it. Now I want to do two things: express my outrage, and warn any new posters or lurkers exactly what kind of a man Ted is. You could think of it like a bulletin board for newcomers, I guess.


Dr. Laura doesn't give a damn about kids...not really. Especially not older ones. People who take an older kid, into their home are to be commended. I've done it too and yeah, every so often I crow about it because it's such a damned thankless job. The reward from knowing you're doing the right thing is good, but sometimes you'd just like stroke.

But that's exactly my point. Doing it is a wonderful thing. Doing it and being proud of it is OK. Doing it, then expecting a pass on evil because of it is exactly what Dr. Laura does.

I wasn't really going to get into this, but when I was in college, there was a board like the one Ted proposed. It wasn't formal, but it existed anyway.

During my freshman year my roommate and best friend dated a boy who was more interested in her than she was in him. He didn't like that she did stuff with me when she could have been with him, so he tried to fix me up with his roommate. We went out twice, both times double dates with the other couple. When the boy asked me out for a third date, I declined. He was a nice guy, but didn't have many social skills, and we had very little in common. Two weeks after I told him "No," I heard that I was "on the list." The two guys had told their fraternity brothers that I had led him on then poured ice on the situation. (The same phrase that Ted used, word for word.) When my friend and I denied it, they told the brothers that we were lesbians, a story that hung on to us for the next four years. (This is why I have a special empathy for gay men and women, even years later. I've been on the receiving end of what society does to them.) They trashed our reputations in order to keep from admitting they were turned down.

You see, there's no control system for the "bulletin board." We just assume that the men who post to it will all tell the truth, and that their idea of what's "letting it go too far" is correct. Anyway, the rumors and blacklisting continued through my college career. Once I left college I moved to another town, and was finally able to date again.

That's why I think Ted is evil. He advocates a system that hurts women for not doing what men want. The system he proposed "in theory" hurt me *for real*. It wasn't rape, but it wasn't far removed, either.

So when Ted says that he just insults groups, he's wrong. He insults me. I will not let that "frat boy" network idea hurt women anymore while I sit quietly and do nothing. For Ted, it's some philosophical point. For me it's very VERY personal. Of course, I'm sure Ted will say that because of this experience, I'm too emotionally involved in the situation to be objective about his idea. In fact, I think Ted is to emotionally stunted to realize who the real victims are here. He believes men are the victims because they get all excited, then have to go home and take a cold shower, or jack off. Where is his conservative "Victim's Rights" rhetoric now?


So I suppose I'm jumping in and will "dig my own grave" for Ted again... but that's okay .

Kelly, I have no argument with you. We disagree on some things, but we probably agree on lots more. Your abortion post was very insightful, and nearly identical to arguments I've made before outside the ng. But I intend to hang Ted's words around his neck until he apologizes with at least as much energy as he expended making them in the first place. When I can't do that anymore, this will probably be the issue that causes me to give up this ng completely. As much as I hate to steal a concept from DL, this *is* the hill I'm willing to die on. I'm not sure I can keep this up, but I know I can't continue to see Ted's name here, think of what he represents, and say nothing. I owe it to my daughter, my Godchild, your daughter, and, strangely enough, Ted's daughter.

They deserve to be able to say "No" whenever the hell they want.