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Dialogue Québec-USA by Buzz Bruce Talbot and Odilon Talbot
QUÉBEC
Having prepared two texts for american addresses, I might as well present them to you for your comments:
TEXT ONE
Chazy Lake, NY December 26, 1997
Rev.,
Following our assistance and participation to your catholic celebration of Nativity on December 24, 1997 at midnight, my wife and I would like to express our feelings, our reactions.
Very seldom, we have enjoyed so much a midnight mass. Your choral contributed largely to create the Christmas spirit . Often, we felt like applauding them as we sometimes are invited to do in Québec’s parishes. The French Christmas song well interpreted raised, brought high emotion ; we could have believed that we were in Québec.
Because, our son and his wife could join us only after nine o’clock, we had been happy to find a Christian mass celebrated later.
Your inspired leadership in your community is surely appreciated and it can be observed as determining.
We don’t know if these notes will be of any interests to you nevertheless we wanted to share them with you and your community.
Best wishes for the coming year and best regards.
P.S. I enjoy writing however English is not my first language.
TEXT TWO
WHAT A DILEMMA ! QUEBEC’S DILEMMA !
Our American friends would like to see us as French Canadian in order to respect current political structures and in the other hand they realize that some so called French Canadians picture themselves as Quebecers for various reasons.
First, the french language which is so difficult to preserve on the American continent in particular.
Quebecers must have a governmental decision center of their own where they can decide , legiferate on matters of direct concerns and on international issues in order to use whatever bargaining power they own.
Canada is a nice country however at Ottawa, Quebec is a province, a territory as many others.
Even if the PM is of french origin, he must obtain and conserve firstly the support of the overwhelming majority of english speaking.
Division and domination are being encouraged, managed by federalist politicians in giving the least they can to the french minority and in supporting, promoting especially their supporters, their collaborators in order to weaken the Québec nation.
As a result Quebecers are divided on various issues and discouraged to deviate from the existing political system which is cosmetically periodically presented, modified.
So little is generally being written in the international and namely the american press. All, we read about is the english speaking points of view.
A Quebecer
A non resident american although an american property owner as well as a tax payer
P.S. Personally, I am impressed by your articles in PRESS-EXTRA regarding Québec and Montréal
USA
America is such an international mixture of foreign cultures, it is difficult to fully understand the view that one province must start a civil war of independence to maintain the French language and customs.
I do a great deal of teaching in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know if you are aware of the Cajun/Arcadian culture there, but these French-Canadians immigrated to the United States when their cultures were outlawed in Canada. They speak French, their children go to French speaking schools, and their local newspapers and radio stations all use French.
The Cajun/Arcadian peoples do not feel the need to revolt from the United States in order to preserve their culture or language. Even surrounded with English speaking American culture, these people have maintained their language and culture because they value it.
No law, separation from one's homeland, or fence will maintain your language or culture. Only the value your parents place on culture will preserve your culture, not a law that separates people.
QUÉBEC
What a very important text reflecting views of a majority of American, I could say!
Progressively, I will try to present my views which are obviously different from yours because of my cultural, social and economical situation.
As time allows me, I will react to sentences of your text!
I trust you good faith and I value your opinions even if they differ from mines.
My first reaction would be to say that as Quebecers we hope that our situation will never be the same or similar to the one experienced by Louisiana people of french origin.
As an eye opener, you could compare your own situation or of your society to them, to their! Difficult exercise for anyone including myself!
Glad to pursue our intelligent dialogue!
USA
Another puzzling concept I find hard to understand is the war between the Irish people!
In your case the conflict is over the language and customs of people from a common country, Canada.
In Ireland, the people are the same, the language is the same the customs are the same the country is the same, even the religion is the same!
Both are Christian but one group pledges allegiance to a Pope in Rome, the other to a Bishop in England!
And over this minor difference they have killed thousands of men, women and children and torn their beautiful country apart.
QUÉBEC
Someone could ask himself if he would chose to be in that situation (Louisiana) or he would not prefer to belong to a majority of people for example English speaking Canadian, American!
USA
Well, gee that is very easy in a free country.
The Cajun/Arcadian people in Louisiana DO choose to be in that situation.
If they did not they would go to France or Canada or one of the old French colonies where French is the majority language and culture.
On of the great things about America is you are free to be of French decent and to enjoy your historic culture as long as your practices do not exclude other peoples culture.
When we build walls and divide states saying, "Louisiana is only going to be French culture and language" or "Massachusetts is going to separate from the United States and be all Irish and only Gaelic will be spoken", or "New Hampshire will only be English culture", then we do not come together and celebrate the human sprit but rather divide humans and slip into the old nationalist practices that have historically lead to conflict.
QUÉBEC
I am not complaining for Louisiana people! This is a different country! What happen there, did happen! They beneficiate of the interesting american way of life, they certainly could be in worst situation.
In my discussion, I am not blaming anyone, I hope. My reasoning is basically related to Québec as a society, a nation survival as such!
May be we should find a less important topic to discuss.
USA
I think it is hard for me to fully understand your points because of the language differences in translating your thoughts from French to English.
We in America work hard at accepting differences and fight those ideas that aim to divide our nation.
This is why Minister Louis Farikan is so abhorrent to us, because he attempts to turn blacks against whites and especially white Jews.
There have been attempts to call for separate nations for blacks, such as the "Back to Africa" movement by DuBois. They fail because America still offers more freedom then even the all black nations of Africa because of the bloody tribal wars that still rage across the continent.
We would never accept a group of people who wanted to turn a state into a separate nation for the benefit of one culture.
If black Americans can live and work together with white Americans, ( and we do that very well despite the crazy ravings of Farikan), then I would hope French Canadians could do the same with their English brothers, and not build a wall.
QUÉBEC
As a quick response, I would say that we want to work with Canadians, Canada as a separate country as expressed democratically by more than half of french Quebecers.
We must understand that other ethnicgroups moved to Canada sometime after experiencing problems in their country.
We have matter to discuss for quite sometime it seems.
QUEBEC
The power is back after 13 days of hard work and sleepless days!
USA
It's those damn Russian's fooling around with the weather again!
QUÉBEC
There is technology to make clouds (during the dry periods of summer), I believe, here in Québec too! Weather is being closely watched. but I am not an expert.
QUÉBEC
I think, any joke is based on some elements of reality, of true!
USA
OK !
QUÉBEC
I have been to my chalet and met 30 crews working on electrical lines in NY near the border. Shear desolation; many trees damaged, ... They were from Rochester, NY.
They asked me about Québec's independence and I told them that USA had nothing to fear being an important and powerful country.
I suggested to them that they could spend sometime in Québec considering the value of their money. I am paying 1.45 CA $ for each US dollar on my tax bill.
One of german origin wanted to go to Québec City and I reassured him about the feasibility of his project language wise.
USA
I fully agree the US has nothing to fear from a breakup of Canada. I cannot imagine the US becoming involved in a revolt in Canada unless the is great loss of life or separatists use the US as a staging area for raids on the Canadian government.
I don't know if it will stop with your one province. Having done several training's in various provinces, I learned the western provinces, esp. BC want to separate from the East coast to reduce the heavy taxes and socialist policies.
BC struck me as very conservative and the most English of all the provinces.
Glad to hear your vacation home in NY is OK.
We have missed the ill effects of El Nino here in Chicago so far.
QUÉBEC
About BC, I doubt very much if they are serious. It is more a bargaining position. They have not had a referendum yet and might never hold one.
Canada, english Canada is afraid of being integrated to USA if Québec leaves. Both countries share the same language and many cultural aspects.
My son spent one summer in B. C. to study english at the University.
I agree this is the most english, British province.
Quebecers and Canadians are very pacific, democratic, ... USA I doubt that would happen. The language might be similar,
(not the same that's for sure!, but the culture is not. Canada is far more government controlled/subsidized than
the USA. I think many Canadians would expect a lot more from the
government than the average US citizen would expect. Especially now that
the Republican party is in control of the US Congress, the level of federal
government control is being cut back. Our criminal law enforcement is also very different from
in Canada. It seems strange to American's that Canada is fearful of loosing
their culture to the US when your culture is so much different then ours.
One of my relatives and husband lived and worked in Ontario
for about four years. We would visit them up there and so learned much
about life in Canada. It is very different from life in America and it would
be a real stretch to change Canadians into Americans! QUÉBEC One of the things I found out during my staying in Europe
is that Quebecers are North Americans of french expression because of our
education which is based on US universities, ..., the presence of many
american firms, ... as compared to Europe. For example, Quebecers are more present on the web than
french people in France. USA Yes, I would not expect Quebecers to be French. France
is a different country, government and culture from Canada and from Quebec.
I don't think you could ever make Quebec a part of France
any more than BC could hope to make is a part of England. Too many years
and far too many miles away. QUÉBEC I agree, francophone (french speaking) Quebecers do not
want to make Québec a part of France, they want to be independent
as USA became independent for UK. I believe B.C. could separate but they are not thinking
of becoming a British province, colony! I do not believe as mentioned previously
that this is a serious treat to Canada, english Canada. Them too are afraid to become eventually another State
of USA as Alaska. USA could assimilate any province into the so called
gigantic melting pot.
QUEBEC I hear rumors: i) Iraq could counter attack on American ground and even in Québec and Canada.
Terrorist measures could be taken! ii) Enemies of President Clinton are trying to link him to the death of two judges concerned with environmental matter related to building construction. In the mid-time they play with his sex relations or so called
USA No way they could sneak into the Country the borders are clogged with
Mexicans. They will have to get in line! Everyone is trying to link Bill Clinton to something!
QUEBEC I was thinking of the call I made to GM Canada, Toronto.
If Québec was independent I would have called Montréal or Québec City because GM would have to open an office of some sort in that country as they do any where else.
It would also create jobs here instead of Toronto.
I asked the info in Toronto in french in order to promote bilingual jobs, jobs for french speaking, there. An increasing number of French speaking Québecers are aware of the importance of such a practice, requesting the info in french as a client. USA I think you will find the Quebec market is too small for GM to treat it like a
separate country, as it has a market only about the size of Chicago. English is the common language of business around the world. I called Germany
to get my German aircraft radio fixed and the woman who answered the phone
spoke perfect English. English is the world's common language. If a salesman
from Spain wants to sell something in Germany both parties speak English.
Same with aircraft. Both the pilots and air traffic controllers must speak
English for takeoff and landing instructions. I received a news report tonight that the Canadian Supreme Court is going to
decide if you can pull out of Canada. I suspect they will say no as our court
did when faced with the same question. QUÉBEC Yes, I agree english is the business language.
However each country must preserve and promote its national language as much as possible. The Canada Supreme court cannot decide democratically for the people of Québec. These judges are selected by Canada Prime Minister among federalist judges. This exercise will help considerably to prepare the next Québec election for the separatist party as well as the third referendum on a version of the independence which will follow.
Also the federal government started to spend directly money in Québec without much consultation with the Québec government.. Another argument would be that GM, Canada in Toronto as a decision center is likely to favor Toronto, Ontario instead of Québec. This is a natural behavior!
GM cars are currently built in Québec (near Montréal) but they are not selling too many cars of this type.
The automotive industry is very important and prosperous in Ontario, Canada. I read that Québec would be 14e richest country of the world based on Internal Products, I believe. Exercising the control of the international affairs of a country is very determinant to its survival, its progress. QUÉBEC Further more, our Cardinal Turcotte in Montreal believes also that Québecers should decide on their own whether they want to live in an independent country.
The current and the previous Opposition leaders in Québec (federalist or pro-Canada) wants Québecers to decide their own future too.
Québec economical situation is generally less encouraging than the Ontario employment rate, investments value, ...
Concerning the Olympic, the Canadian team was presented in Nagano only in english and the Canadian Minister Copps had to apologize and she promise that it would never occur again. What happen in practice is that english is the communication language year round and eventually they forgot about the second official language in Canada. USA Senator Siesta' suspended
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's Senate suspended without pay one of its members
who resides in Mexico and whose
chronic absenteeism from the Senate chamber in Ottawa earned him the
nickname "Senator Siesta." The unprecedented step to suspend Sen. Andrew Thompson for the session
without his C$64,400 annual pay was the
strictest punishment Senate members could impose against one of their own
and came in a vote of 52 to one.
QUÉBEC Another one taking advantage of the system! If you manage to get to a certain level you beneficiate of the support of numerous friends, colleges, parties, ... QUEBEC
Hi Buzz,
We had a nice weekend at Chazy Lake. Lanscape was beautiful, yellow and
reddish.
I finished my fire wood, always a year in advance for drying purposes, clean
leaves in the long entrance (300 feet), closed my openings in the basement,
caught a 16 inches rainbow and two perches, ...
The lady agent working for the FBI was at her isolated camp on our road.
Here a first draft of a text prepared over the week end. Different
individual, different culture!
**************************************************************************
As a professional if you don't adhere to federalism objectives after being given an opportunity, you will be out of job for a long period of time especially if it is not the first time.
Even my last employer suggested that I return working for a well established Canadian firm not being able to support a separatist employee having a separatist web site.
There is nothing they can do against the well established Canadian financial "establishment".
Democracy should imply freedom of expression! At least, this is what I expected.
Life told me that as an independentist, your wife, your family are suffering for your own believes. Your own personal development and your own success are jeopardized, negatively affected.
In my case being a Commonwealth (British) scholar taut me that I deserve to belong to a country of my own, my own language, my own culture similarly to countries such as England, where I have been studying, to France, Italy, Spain, Germany countries that I visited and United States where I live on a part time base as a non resident but a full tax payer.
As a father, you should forget your opinions and obey to the financial forces. That is easily done if you are an English peaking Canadian but not so easily as a French speaking Québecer. No wonder why French speaking Canadians are invited to stay home.
This is how several separatists find themselves without a retirement pension at the end of their professional live even after spending several years at the service of English speaking firms in Montreal.
Odilon, 14 October 1998
USA
Well, that is just part of the price one pays for separating ones self from the main stream of society. We have some folks down here who do not recognize the federal government, only the state government, based a how the early US constitution is written before the 14th Amendment. They have separated themselves from society. They have moved to the rural west, refuse to pay taxes or recognize the law. I can't imagine employing such a person. First off, I would never be able to trust the person and second his rejection of our government would bring the company into disrepute.
I was up in Cornwall, east of Ottawa just a couple weeks ago doing a training at the Nav Can Centre. Afterwards we went to the pup and had a couple of drinks. After joking about Monica and Bill Clinton, we talked about the separatist movement. Two people in the group were French-Canadian and were strongly opposed to the movement. In a nut shell they did not see the need to tear the country apart over the issue. One woman said she has two family members who refuse to talk to any other family member unless they are part of the movement. Both the French-Canadian members said they do not expect the vote to be in favor of separation as it would cost he people too much money. It was interesting as an outsider to listen to the discussion and give my observations as an American.
Buzz
QUEBEC
Hi Buzz,
Quick response!
Can I used this material for our dialogue on the web?
This illustrates the various perception of a situation, I believe. In my case, I live it and you observe it through your cultural background.
In my case when I learned about a young gay (22 years) being murdered by close acquaintances, I am really shocked. Gays belong to another minority and they are suffering as such. Someone could ask if they have freely chosen their sexual orientation. The same reason may applies to Québec separatist having developed a strong nationalist devotion similarly to religious believes.
Further more when a five year old finds a gun and kills a very young playing partner. Being closer and better acquainted to those facts, your reaction might differ from mine.
I enjoy talking to you!
Your ami Odilon
USA
Well, that is just part of the price one pays for separating ones self from the main stream of society. We have some folks down here who do not recognize the federal government, only the state government, based a how the early US constitution is written before the 14th Amendment. They have separated themselves from society. They have moved to the rural west, refuse to pay taxes or recognize the law. I can't imagine employing such a person. First off, I would never be able to trust the person and second his rejection of our government would bring the company into disrepute.
I was up in Cornwall, east of Ottawa just a couple weeks ago doing a training at the Nav Can Centre. Afterwards we went to the pup and had a couple of drinks. After joking about Monica and Bill Clinton, we talked about the separatist movement. Two people in the group were French-Canadian and were strongly opposed to the movement. In a nut shell they did not see the need to tear the country apart over the issue. One woman said she has two family members who refuse to talk to any other family member unless they are part of the movement. Both the French-Canadian members said they do not expect the vote to be in favor of separation as it would cost he people too much money. It was interesting as an outsider to listen to the discussion and give my observations as an American.
Buzz
QUÉBEC
Hi Buzz,
Quick response!
Can I used this material for our dialogue on the web?
This illustrates the various perception of a situation, I believe. In my case, I live it and you observe it through your cultural background.
In my case when I learned about a young gay (22 years) being murdered by close acquaintances, I am really shocked. Gays belong to another minority and they are suffering as such. Someone could ask if they have freely chosen their sexual orientation. The same reason may applies to Québec separatist having developed a strong nationalist devotion similarly to religious believes.
Further more when a five year old finds a gun and kills a very young playing partner. Being closer and better acquainted to those facts, your reaction might differ from mine.
I enjoy talking to you!
Your ami Odilon.
USA
Not sure how this fits into breaking away from one's country?
As a police officer on a nightly basis I hear, "You are arresting because I am:" black, Hispanic, a man, a woman, you name the division they have placed themselves in, and that is the perceived reason for the arrest. In that person's mind that is the reason for their trouble, but from the view of the person making the arrest it is merely the excuse we all use to rationalize our behavior and project problems on others rather than looking "outside of the box" we build for ourselves.
When people "play the race card" in an argument, I always point out Northern Ireland, when people who look exactly alike have been killing each other for hundreds of years and I am sure will continue to kill each other in the future.
It seems the animal side of us wants to break down into smaller and smaller groups with a destine for all those excluded. In India the people look alike but some a "unclean" and cast out. In Africa the black man breaks down into small tribes and will wipe out whole villages including children.
I would hope that as we mature as a species we will learn that there is nothing to gain by dividing our selves into smaller and smaller groups of all the same people, but rather we would learn to love the wonderful flavors and richness of life in being one family of people who enjoys being a part of a larger whole.
QUÉBEC
Very interesting!
President Clinton is right in fighting violent acts against minorities: gays and others.
Too many children have been killed in American schools. The dead of this child, five year old, is another manifestation of such a violent social climate.
In my humble opinions, our societies yours in particular is becoming more and more violent, intolerant towards minorities, personal gestures such as thoses of Mr. Clinton,...
For example, if Québecers and Canadians are not peaceful in realizing their becoming respective, there will be a civil war. However I trust that we are not violent apart from a few people which are trying in vain to generate confrontation.
This reminds me of the rigorousness of our Church twenty years ago. A failed sense of justice which is becoming less and less human. Humans, us happen to be unperfected and often different in many ways whether we like it or not.
USA is a melting pot of several ethnic groups and this is exactly what Québec and Canada are afraid of. We want to be part of the great world but preserve our culture similarly to European countries such as France. There are many ways to belong to the international community however we must first look after ourselves.
Your hopes for a better world, more peaceful as you said are desirable but counter nature it's seems according to history. Part of the population has been reduced on account of religious believes, empire interests, ... Nowadays others so called good reasons are used by leading countries to maintain and reinforce their dominance.
I am not trying to convince you, I am just expressing myself hoping that we will be beneficiated, gained to a certain extent of these exchanges and may be others. As mentioned previously, I not saying I am right; this is just what I believe, these are my views.
I appreciate very much your views of the reality.
Odilon
USA
You've been watching too much television.
First off, President Clinton doesn't do anything to fight violent acts against Gays except make speeches.
Second, the kids who have been shooting other kids in schools have been mentally ill and are NOT the product of an ever increasingly violent American society. If you examine the US Dept. of Justice data you will find that violence in American schools is LESS this past year, not more. Our crazy liberal court system has ruled that the public schools must accept mentally ill children into the main stream of public education. When I was a child mentally ill children who were violent went to a special youth home school where they had adult staff who could prevent violence in a locked setting. The courts have ruled that is no longer legal so now mentally ill kids who are violent are free to roam the streets, and when they find a gun or knife or even a rock, they kill other kids. It's not the society that is violent but a court system controlled by liberal idealists.
The five year old girl that was shot in the back of the head was shot by another young child accidentally. The other child did not know it was a real gun he had found. The parents have been jailed for not locking the weapon up.
I do agree America has many more acts of violence per capita than Europe, but you must remember we settled a wild land in wars with Indian tribes and then settled law violations ourselves without the government in the early years of this country. That history of taking action on ones own leads to violence.
I would hate to watch from the sidelines as a small group in Canada brings about a Northern Ireland type war for separation.
Buzz
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