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Topic: Democracy! (1 of 13), Read 106 times

Conf: The Great Debate

From: Odilon Talbot (tabi@mlink.net)

Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 11:45 PM

HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS IN CANADA!

As a professional if you don't adhere to federalism objectives after being given an opportunity, you will be out of job for a long period of time especially if it is not the first time.

Even my last employer suggested that I return working for a well established Canadian firm not being able to support a separatist employee having a separatist web site.

There is nothing they can do against the well established Canadian financial "establishment".

Democracy should imply freedom of expression! At least, this is what I expected.

Life told me that as an independentist, your wife, your family are suffering for your own believes. Your own personal development and your own success are jeopardized, negatively affected.

In my case being a Commonwealth (British) scholar taut me that I deserve to belong to a country of my own, my own language, my own culture similarly to countries such as England, where I have been studying, to France, Italy, Spain, Germany countries that I visited and United States where I live on a part time base as a non resident but a full tax payer.

As a father, you should forget your opinions and obey to the financial forces. That is easily done if you are an English peaking Canadian but not so easily as a French speaking Québecer. No wonder why French speaking Canadians are invited to stay home.

This is how several separatists find themselves without a retirement pension at the end of their professional live even after spending several years at the service of English speaking firms in Montreal.

Odilon Talbot

14 October 1998

Topic: Democracy! (2 of 13), Read 110 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Pierre Simard (pierresimard@home.com)

Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 12:46 AM

What the heck is this about??? One's personal failures should not be attributed to some artificially-concocted boogy-man. For every tale like yours, there are hundreds, if not thousands, that de-bunk your theory. Take personal responsibility for your fate!

Topic: Democracy! (3 of 13), Read 105 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 09:33 PM

Easy reply!

From: Douglass Mcnicol (mcnicol@perf.bc.ca) Date: Monday, October 19, 1998 05:41 AM

odilon-your posting,if true,is alas the backlash as the result of fascist ideas that your employer finds repugnant. that 'he-they' can dictate your private opinions is very significant. not knowing all the facts l can only conclude that you made the mistake of using company time for these thoughts.doug

From: Anonymous (mailto:) Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 12:05 AM

How can you infer such a bias conclusion!

From: Vincent Antonelli (vantonelli@hotmail.com)

Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 09:54 AM

i am trying to digest the idea that you "deserve a country" of yr own. do yr "deserts" not hv to balanced against those of all others in a democracy? i think you start w/ the assumption that Quebec "belongs" to those of French ancestry.

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 04:06 PM

I appreciate your open mind and your effort to comprehend Québecers wishing to consolidate our society, our nation based on the French culture in Québec on the North American continent as you said.

Obviously, people of other origins are most welcome to join us. We need their support, their presence, in my humble opinion.

From: Alan Burns (burnsa@mnsi.net)

Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 07:12 AM

Odilon, I'm confused. You do have your own country, it's France. Wouldn't be nice if every race spread out all over the world and split up the existing countries so they could have their own. Open your eyes, their is a lot going on out there if you took the time to see. Your energies would be better spent on growing as a country and not on searching for all the negatives.

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 08:19 PM

Why should France be my country whereas you know fairly well that Québec is becoming my country. It is a matter of time!

Even if your origins are Irish, Scottish or British you still claimed that you are a Canadian or could be one!

It is up to you to elect to understand or not!

From: Moe Berg (moeberg@lycosmail.com)

Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 07:50 AM

Odilon,

You claim to have travelled and lived all over the world. When you are living in the U.S., I invite you to openly advocate and work towards the secession of Texas from the Union and then apply for a job at Microsoft or try to get into the military. When in France, you might aid and support the Breton or Corsican separatists and then apply for a position in the French Civil Service or any large multi-national corporation. Or even in Québec, you could advocate the separation of the Pontiac, and try to get into the SQ. See what happens. Do you remember Marcel Chaput? Please don't blame your personal failures on the nature of Canadian democracy, for it is simply farcical, and you make a mockery of ethnic groups all over the world who are TRULY in a bad situation.

From: Pierre Simard (pierresimard@home.com)

Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 12:15 AM On 10/26/98 7:50:20 AM, Moe Berg wrote:

Odilon,

Moe,

Well said! I doubt Mr. Talbot will retort, since there's no use. He's lost his argument, tenuous as it was.

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (12 of 13), Read 34 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Alan Burns (burnsa@mnsi.net)

Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 06:59 AM

On 10/25/98 8:19:52 PM, Anonymous wrote:

Why should France be my country whereas you know fairly well that Québec is becoming my country. It is a matter of time!

Even if your origins are Irish, Scottish or British you still claimed that you are a Canadian or could be one!

It is up to you to elect to understand or not!

I feel for the likes of you. If you think you are on the verge of becoming a country you are being sadly misled. I don't have any question of my roots or inferiority as you do. I am very comfortable with myself and who I am. I was born in Quebec and I am quite proud of it. This makes me a Canadian and a Quebecer to boot. You are no different than a Brit coming here and forcing all that is British on Canadians. Look into your history, you left your country behind as my parents did, they are not whining to change everything back to what it used to be in the old country. If you are so sure of victory (without cheating I hope) maybe we can bet a few Canadian dollars on the outcome. Nah, then you would have to expose yourself. So typical. If you were so sure of yourself you wouldn't be hiding behind the anonymous crap. Adios!

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (13 of 13), Read 13 times

Conf: The Great Debate

From: Douglass Mcnicol (mcnicol@perf.bc.ca)

Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 11:16 AM

hi all-must our canada be mired in the past? good god-'we'have an oblagation to reinforce our roots and thrive to do better for the next generation!!!! despite the massive propaganta from our 'south' 'we' canadians still maintain that canada is unique and still will find our own path no matter what, Doug

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (12 of 16), Read 44 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 10:57 PM

Nato including Canada, was involved in the creating of such Independent new country as Bosnia.

Nowadays, Canada is again involved with Nato and the US, in the creation of another alleged independent country called KOSOVO.(where the money and guns supplied to the Kosovar are Coming from?)

So, why not an independent Quebec, free from the Anglo-Saxon hegemony. Quebec, has a greater potential to make it on its own, without the contribution of the taxpayers of the G7, as in the case of Bosnia, Kosovo, etc... The non French speaking residents, if it ever comes to pass, will have to learn to speak French as a first language and English as second, that's a switch!

Salutation

Peter Krapotkin .

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (13 of 16), Read 50 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Moe Berg (moeberg@lycosmail.com)

Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 09:27 AM

Peter,

I think that there are a few glaring errors in your post. NATO is not involved in the essentially political act of seeing to it that the new states of Bosnia or Kosovo are created or not, rather they are on the ground (and in the air) to try to minimize the horrendous blood-shed, and to attempt to minimize the suffering of the displaced victims of the wars. Where are the money and guns coming from? The Albanians in Kosovo are supported by Albania itself, and the Serbians are well-armed by Milsoevic. Do you honestly see any parallels in the Québec and Bosnian or Kosovo situations? If you do, I would like to hear them.....

Anglo-Saxon hegemony? What on earth are you talking about?!? I won't quote you chapter and verse on the dominant role that French-Candians play in Canadian institutions, but I am sure that ANY contributor to this forum could supply you a list, and make a cogent argument that the reverse is true in Canada. I'll leave it up to you to show how "Anglo-Saxon" hegemony is oppressing Québecers.

And as for your view that non-French speakers in the new Republic be forced to use French as a first language? What a model of 19th century intolerance! Sounds as though Québec and Slovakia would have a lot in common. Québec going it alone? Of course it could. What would the new Québec's borders be? What would be the economic costs while the transition (10 years?) is underway? And how would the better-educated (and mobile) citizens react when they see just high those costs are?

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (14 of 16), Read 31 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 09:07 AM

NATO, US and Canada included, are so interested to stop the HORRENDOUS BLOOD-SHED and ETHNIC CLEANSING in Kosovo. Which was and still is an integral part of SERBIA, and help put down open rebellion, instead of supporting it.

Why not some support for the Palestinians' 50 years of ETHNIC CLEANSING and 30 Years of OCCUPATION, with its usual Horrendous blood-shed? The So called peace treaty, is basically in exchange for 13% of additional land (for a total of 17%, UN resolutions called for 100% years ago) Arafat and his PLO are the VICHY type collaborators with the Jewish State.

What about, the Horrendous etc...going on in Algeria? The Kabyles, refuse to learn Arabic, and village after village are destroyed and peoples slaughtered.

Of course, this has nothing to do with an independent QUEBEC. However, questions may be raised, why Ottawa is involved in some independence fights far away from Canadian shores, when local aspirations by Quebecois are discouraged.

Peter Krapotkin

Topic: Too many hits to the head there anonymous! (15 of 16), Read 38 times

Conf: The Great Debate From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 07:17 PM

Bravo Peter K.,

You are very realistic and Honest to yourself and to your community in my humble opinion! You belong to Québec and you deserve it!

Too many people such a some French Quebecers who are trying to please Anglophobes in expressing opinions which are not even shared by them.

I think I understand newcomers and Quebecers of others origins when they are afraid of what they experienced in their own countries. However Québec is a peaceful country!

I find very fanatic people on this forum to happy to listen or to read themselves.

Topic: Democracy! (16 of 16), Read 30 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Moe Berg (moeberg@lycosmail.com)

Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 08:37 AM

Anonymous,

Bit of an incoherent ramble in your little note supporting Peter K., but I seem to have gleaned from it that you share a similar view with JMS, and that is that those whose mother tongue is French and do not support the vision of Villeneuve, Parizeau, Groulx, and Bouchard are somehow boot-licking vendus. I find that position, in particular, odious in the extreme.

And Québec is a peaceful country? Since when is Québec a country? And how 'peaceful' will it be towards those who do not bow to the supremacy of the language of the majority, those who want to democratically attach their territory to Canada, or assert their own perfectly legitimate rights of self-determination? That's when we will see how peaceful your 'country' is. Well, will your new Republic allow this type of dissent, as Canada has?

Topic: Democracy! (9 of 9), Read 35 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Odilon Talbot (tabi@mlink.net)

Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 09:49 AM

I am the one who started this debate, discussion and also the anonymous so called monitor.

Somehow, I fell responsible to monitor this discussion. Very seldom, I express views without signing but this forum is rather vigorous and anonymous comments are less determinant, direct, personal, I believe.

I am expressing others opinions on my personal site: http://www.mlink.net/~tabi/opinion.html

Thanks for sharing views, I hope in a constructive manner.

Odilon Talbot

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Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (1 of 6), Read 26 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 09:42 PM

Very few Prime Ministers are not lawyers.

Therefore if you want eventually become one you should start studying law.

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (2 of 6), Read 23 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: James Coffin (jim231@total.net)

Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 09:49 AM

On 11/5/98 9:42:09 PM, Anonymous wrote: Very few Prime Ministers are not lawyers.

Therefore if you want eventually become one you should start studying law.

Personally, I tend towards what Shakespeare said:'the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers'.

jim231@total.net

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (3 of 6), Read 22 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:)

Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 08:26 PM

They are qualified to defend an option, a case and also to demolish it.

Therefore they can swim in any environment!

Also, they are more comfortable in presence of their pairs, their fellows lawyers.

The law making process belongs to them! They can put the rug under your feet if you are not part of their associations.

Friends of PM, lawyers can get close to power but not to the top unless they are lawyers. This reasoning apply to Québec as well as Ottawa, especially in the French environnement, it seems.

It might be more rewarding to study law than political science if you wish to be really powerful on the political scene.

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (4 of 6), Read 28 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Sam The Man (student@ehmail.com)

Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 08:59 PM On 11/6/98 8:26:30 PM, Anonymous wrote:

Also, they are more comfortable in presence of their pairs, their fellows lawyers.

Hey Anonymous!

I hope you mean "their peers"!!

If not, God help us all if we must deal with them (lawyers and PM's) in 2's !!

Sam

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (5 of 6), Read 24 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Douglass Mcnicol (mcnicol@perf.bc.ca)

Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 04:55 AM

to all-unfortunately the real reason for canada being formed has been lost.BUSINESS and PROFITS has ALAS taken 5th place. THE LAWYERS are lamenting the lack of jobs for US working stiffs-conviently forgetting that SOME of us do have to work to pay their fees-hehehe-

doug

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (6 of 6), Read 2 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Anonymous (mailto:) Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 05:44 PM

We can say that modern democracy is better served by lawyers!

They might not know every think but they can talk extensively about every thing.

It is hard to believe that heads of provinces and countries in Canada could not be well led by professionals of other disciplines. Laws could be written for them and understood by them, I suppose.

If you descry such a situation instead of taken advantage of it, do not expect to be rewarded. Someone else will beneficiate of your honesty.

This is how democracy works in Québec and Canada whether you like it or not!

Topic: Lawyers can become Prime Ministers! (7 of 7), Read 25 times Conf: The Great Debate

From: Odilon Talbot (tabi@mlink.net)

Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 10:25 PM

I am the one who started this debate, discussion and also the anonymous so called monitor.

Somehow, I felt responsible to monitor this discussion. Very seldom, I express views without signing but this forum is rather vigorous and anonymous comments are less determinant, direct, personal, I believe.

I am expressing others opinions on my personal site: http://www.mlink.net/~tabi/opinion.html

Thanks for sharing views, I hope in a constructive manner.

Odilon Talbot

********************************************************************** forum: The World Not Moderated

topic: Democracy! posts: 3 by:otalbot 10/18/98 15:09 EST HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS IN CANADA!

As a professional if you don't adhere to federalism objectives after being given an opportunity, you will be out of job for a long period of time especially if it is not the first time.

Even my last employer suggested that I return working for a well established Canadian firm not being able to support a separatist employee having a separatist web site.

There is nothing they can do against the well established Canadian financial "establishment".

Democracy should imply freedom of expression! At least, this is what I expected. Life told me that as an independentist, your wife, your family are suffering for your own believes. Your own personal development and your own success are jeopardized, negatively affected.

As a father, you should forget your opinions and obey to the financial forces. That is easily done if you are an English peaking Canadian but not so easily as a French speaking Quebecer.

No wonder why French speaking Canadians are invited to stay home. This is how several separatists find themselves without a retirement pension at the end of their professional live even after spending several years at the service of English speaking firms in Montreal.

Odilon Talbot

October 14, 1998

http://www.mlink.net/~tabi

2. Democracy! 10/22/98 17:47 EST Hi there Otalbot, I'm a Canadian too, from Victoria in B.C., but am currently studying History in England.

I hear what your saying, but I reckon the firms have every right to do this. I mean, if you are a seperatist Quebecer, then you should go and work for a Frencg speaking Quebec firm, and the problem won't arise about pesions, etc.

Of course English speaking frims don't want speration. Its' so ridiculous anyway.

I mean, just because some Candaians speak English, andother's French, we should spilt apart. What crap! Do we want to be just like Yugoslavia?

We should set asside our origins (we're all immigrants in Canada anyway), and be loyal to Canada, and not just our respective provinces.

I mean, they speak Welsh Gaelic in Wales, but you don't hear of Wales wanting to split from the U.K. do you?

Well, obviously I'm a federalist then!

Take care Otalbot, and everyone else. sp

3. Democracy!

by:otalbot

10/23/98 23:25 EST

Scotland is becoming more and more autonomous even if they share the same language with England, is it not true!

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GLOBE AND MAIL, TORONTO

Message: "Quebec's election"

Posted: Odilon Talbot

Date: November 22 1998 at 9:16 PM

Mr. Charest is trying to fight the Parti Québécois on their land. The more he speaks about the referendum on the independence of Québec the more he indirectly promotes this option, the independence. Thanks Mr. Charest for your negative campaign!

It is unfair to him to have been forced in such a notice to represent federalists!

A positive campaign is very difficult to be conducted when you have to defend liberal and conservative options. What a challenge. Defend someone else program as you said is not possible.

Furthermore, Independence, nowadays, is an asset to the Parti Québécois, having been approved by nearly the majority of Québecers a few years ago.

Many Quebecers are lead to believe that the earlier the Independence is passed, occurred, the less harm will be done to Québec, its economy, ... And, the same reasoning applies to Canada!

Odilon Talbot

http://www.mlink.net/~tabi

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Message: "Quebec referendum"

Posted: Steve R.

Date: November 23 1998 at 4:32 PM

Greetings and salutations-

I am an American college student curious about the referendum/separitism issue in Quebec. I'm interested to know how the average Canadian feels about this particular issue. Strongly opposed, in full support of, or indifferent to the whole sordid affair. Any and all comments would be appreciated on this subject.

thank you.

Message: "Quebec referendum"

Posted: Claude Beaulieu

Date: November 23 1998 at 4:39 PM

As a student from outside Canada, you wish more information, I presume, to form an enlightened opinion on what you have already decided is a "sordid affair". Prejudging is what kept the Black people in your country in such an inferior position for so long. Please, evolve

Message: "Quebec referendum"

Posted: Odilon Talbot

Date: November 24 1998 at 11:22 PM

Thanks Steve for inquiring about Québec's affairs!

As you know nearly a majority of Quebecers voted for the Independence of their country. This is a serious decision!

If you nearly decided once to administrate your country even if the Canadian government did all they could to convince you, to fight this issue, someone could expect that the next time the popular support will easily exceed the fixty percent required.

Hopefully, soon these two countries will happily collaborate as close neighbours.

I share your interests in international affairs.

Good luck in your studies,

A Commonwealth (british) scholar,

Odilon Talbot

tabi@mlink.net

http://www.mlink.net/~tabi

Welcome to the corner of Canada's National Website set aside for the thrust and parry of public discourse. This is where you get to have your say.

Message: "Quebec referendum"

Posted: Werner Wintels

Date: November 25 1998 at 12:15 AM

Talk of sovereignty is just that; talk. They've been talking about it for 30 years, watering it down to make it more acceptable, without doing anything about it. For the majority of Quebeckers, it's just a way to force the issue of constitutional reform, which no one in the other provinces is really interested in. This bluff is wearing thin as we speak.

The minute Quebeckers would be asked to sacrifice anything for the sake of sovereignty, they'd quickly howl against it and skewer the politician that disrupted their quiet lives like any other cranky Canadian.

In the event of a declaration of Quebec sovereignty, the real danger (if you can call it that) is not that Quebec will turn its back on Canada, but that Canada will turn its back on Quebec and look for closer links to the U.S., possibly customs and currency union, and apply for Commonwealth status. Some provinces may even consider becoming States. This is why all Americans should be following developments very closely.

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