(This interview took place with Jason and Colin of Trial by Fire on July 7, 2002 outside of the El-N-Gee Club.  Jason told me beforehand that everyone always asked about their lyrics and what one specific song may mean.  He said no one ever really asked them about their music.  So I did.)

Josh:  So if you want to talk about music, let’s talk about music.

Jason:  Well, it’s whatever you wanna talk about.  Whatever you have prepared.

Josh:  Well, the funny thing about it is that you’re on Jade Tree and from the same area as Strike Anywhere, so I don’t really want to talk about that stuff because then it’s just going to be the same thing over again. 

Jason:  It’s only natural though because our scenes are so closely tied together.  And we’re friends.  I played in a band with their drummer a long time ago. 

Josh:  The one thing that I want to talk about that doesn’t have to do with music though is your name.   Because I think it’s a really good name, and that’s something a lot of bands lack these days.  But did you know that there are a lot of other bands with the same name? 

Jason:  There’s only two or three that I’ve seen.   I actually looked for them.    Actually, I looked for them post-naming our band.   But none of those other bands pentrate our area of music or consciousness so...  But it fit.    I’m proud of the choice. 

Josh:  Because you could be Hoobastank.  And that can’t be good for anyone.

Jason:  No, that can’t be. 

Josh:  So we’ll talk about music.

Jason:  Ok.

Josh:  On the Jade Tree site, I believe, it says something about how you’re taking music to something other than just tight pants.   And you’re kind of on the opposite end of emo, so is that kind of like, “Take that emo!”?

Jason:  I don’t consider us emo at all.   But the labels are weird and all.  The labels don’t even mean much any more, they’ve all been so used for so many things and then cross referenced with each other.   I just don’t think we’re very image conscious, as far as being fancy lads or anything like that.  We just play music.   And there seems to be a real style conscious getting popular these days.   Because bands that are self packaged- that have the look and have the image-

Colin:  Rock’n’roll poses.

Jason: Total mannequens with guitars on them. 

Colin: I don’t know that we are decidely anti anything.  We are just guys who came up with these songs in our basement and just tried to be as honest to our musical impulses as possible.  I feel that’s something that’s sort of lacking in punk and in music these days.  There’s definitely a very stylized and contrived approach to music.  It’s not what excites me and not what excited me about hearing good underground music.

Jason:  And that’s our first goal as a band- to play music that excites us.  And we are our own worst critics.   We will work on a song, and it doesn’t make it any less spontaneous.  Part of the challenge of making music is not to just put it out there [when you think] it’s good enough.   We change a lot of songs a lot of times until we feel like it’s the best we could possibly do.    There are times when it feels like something’s missing and we’ll wait until that spontaneous moment until it happens.   And then it’s complete.  Then we’re satisfied.  Usually, it’s a consensus.   I’ve never felt that anyone’s upset or not fully satisfied with how one of our songs has come out.   It’s all or nothing.

Josh:  Kind of a typical question I guess, but since you want to talk about music, what were you into that really made you decide that you wanted to start a band, and to get it the way that it sounds?

Colin:  I think the record that made me want to be in a band and to realize that all it took was just picking up a fucking guitar and plugging it in was probably the first time I heard Bad Brains.   Then later listening to Drive Like Jehu and Rocket From the Crypt.  I don’t know that I can really point to one album that neccesarily got me excited. 

Jason:  I don’t think I can pinpoint a band or a record.   I can pinpoint the first time that I got really excited about music that got me interested in punk.  I think it was the first time I heard a punk band and it was when my friend’s older brother made me a Ramones mix tape.    I ddin’t know what to think of it at the time because it was so foriegn to what I had heard before, but when I got older it always stayed there.   And when I saw a video for the Ramones then it really like, hit me because part of it was just that it was so different than what we were hearing. 

(This is when random people keep asking us questions and we talk about how New London sucks.)

Jason:  But when I was older and saw a show where kids were close to the band, it was more the spirit of punk that gave me the idea that I could actually do it.  Because the idea behind it was that anyone could pick up a guitar and do it.   The spirit along with a whole group of bands I was listening to back then caused it; it wasn’t just one thing.   It was the Ramones, Black Flag and then of course Minor Threat and it just grew. 

Josh:  You kind of have a label as being hardcore punk, but that varies depending on who you talk to.  What kind of elements do you put into your music when you sit down to write songs?

Jason:  It’s not like anything or any band.  It’s more like moods.  Creating a mood- a level of energy- and then writing whatever comes natural.  We wanted to create a high level of energy with high energy level music.  There’s a definite desire to put our own stamp on it and to have a particular sound that may not be hugely different from other bands in the genre, but when you hear it you know it’s us.   But it’s more of just whatever comes out, but there’s a desire to create harder music that’s more high energy and straight forward.  Aggressive.  Because at the time when I started this band, I remember talking to Colin and everyone else who has played in this band at certain times and it was almost a reaction to what I wasn’t hearing at the time.  When we were starting this band, Strike Anywhere was just getting started and playing shows.  They weren’t nearly where they are now.   And there were only a few bands that I could think of that I liked hearing in punk rock.   I wanted to form a band that I wanted to hear.  It’s more about satisfying myself musically, and ourselves.  Wahtever comes out is what we do. 

Josh:  There seems to be a void with bands like you and Strike Anywhere existing. 

Jason:  Yeah, but then I saw the void too with subject matter and bands talking about stuff that I was really interested in.    And that’s also what drives the lyrics- just stuff that I care about and at the time was stuff I wasn’t hearing. 

Josh:  Because songs about girls are ok, but there’s only so many you can take and so many different ways to say it.

Jason:   Right, but there’s also a tasteful way to talk about it with interest.  I can think of some Jeff Buckley songs that are about love that I can listen to over and over again because it’s not what he’s saying it’s how he’s saying it.  There’s always a way to approach any subject.   But I agree.  There was sort of a void and there still is sort of one. 

Josh:  Do you think it’s hard to fit into shows and everything?  Since you’re not straight out hardcore, but if you were all the Bane kids would like you.  And if you were emo, all the Saves the Day kids would like you.

Colin:  That’s a good question.  We just kind of let the chips fall where there may.  But you look around you and it seems easy some times for bands that don’t seem too engaged in their art to have a big following and a huge voice.   And you kind of scratch your head.  Not that that’s a factor to conduct your band in any certain way, but it kind of makes you wonder because this is supposed to be a music scene that is very receptive of doing very daring things.  And there are bands now that can come up with a very packaged experience that you can get in so many other places, and have gotten.  I don’t think we let it effect how we conduct ourselves.

Jason:  But some times it is kind of... I don’t know if it’s disheartening because my desire to do this band is so much that I can’t let that sort of thing get me down.   But it is disheartening some times when you go to a show and play and kids are sitting down or kind of standing back because they came to see something totally different than what you’re offering.   That would be ok if a lot of it seemed receptive.  I’m not one to go up to somebody and say, “Why are you sitting down”, so I can’t really say.  It could be because they think we suck. 

Colin:  It’s not a problem where we need people to like our band because I think we’d still be doing this if we could never play to more than twenty people in a basement in Washington.  I just think in general you sort of worry about the state of music.  You do end up on bills some times when you wonder what the motivation of doing a band is.

Jason:  We’ve played some really big shows in front of 400 or 500 kids, and I think we’ve gotten a better feeling playing in front of twenty kids in a basement.  But we’ve also played some really good big shows.

Colin:  I think it’s also that when we were playing shows the 400 or 500 people weren’t there to see us.  We have gotten to play on bigger tours with Hot Water Music, and it’s weird as an opening band where you feel like you’re just in one ear and out the other, but then you play a show in New Brunswick where kids are psyched about seeing all the bands on the bill and just really into music.