(This was done in a small room that you had to climb many, many flights of stairs to get to, in the Palladium in Worcester on January 13, 2001. The room was small and bright, much like an interrogation room.)

Josh Nacho: This is gonna be the best interview ever.

Nathan: Awesome.

J.N.: I'm just gonna totally wing it... Where are you guys from?

Nathan: From Newark, Delaware.

J.N.: Newark, Delaware?

Nathan: Yeah.

J.N.: What kind of scene do you have there?

Nathan: It's weird cause it's like, we have a lot of good bands- well, not a lot, but a couple of good bands- but they don't get out a lot because a lot of them have more responsibilities there like school and work and stuff like that, and they don't get the chance to go out. But, there's a couple really good bands, like this band called Trailer Park Riot who are fucking phenominal. Like, do you remember when Trasher used to put out those skate rock tapes?

J.N.: Yeah.

Nathan: Remember when you're a little skateboarder- and I don't know if you ever were- but you get Thrasher skate rock #7 and it's the most blazing ridiculous stuff you've ever heard in your life... That's what they're like. It makes me wanna skate. There's a band called the Beauracrats (sp?) who are sort of like grindcore stuff, which is good. And another band called Game Over which is more pop punk type stuff. And Game Over, I guess they're like 16 or 17 years old too. Also, there's Joshua Fit For Battle, you ever heard of them? A lot of people have actually heard of them, so it's sort of cool. They're actually on tour right now but they're from Delaware and they're really good. But that's about it. I mean, we haven't played in Delaware in a while, we usually just play in Philly- outside- but there are some shows, smaller shows, but it's not that big. Like the scene in Newark is less music and more everyone knows each other and just kind of hangs out. Just gets real drunk and goes to little shows and has fun. There's no grand huge scene or anything, but it's cool. We enjoy it.

J.N.: There's a pretty big scene in Boston right now.

Nathan: Yeah.

J.N.: I'm not from Boston though.

Nathan: Nah, neither am I obivously.

J.N.: No one here actually lives here... What's your relationship with Victory Records been like?

Nathan: It's been all right. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be saying this or not. The next album will be coming out on a different label. Honestly, I totally forget what it's ok to say and not because I don't wanna piss anybody off as far as people at Victory, but there's a lot of good people there, a lot of cool people that we like, but there were some little problems and we just aren't doing it. I don't know... I'm gonna be as vague as possible with that question because I don't know what to say to that because it's just... I'm not a person that likes to talk shit. It's all right. We're still on Victory until the end of this year. And honestly, they've done really good with us with distribution and interviews and stuff like that... Good people.

J.N.: They're distribution is crazy, their CDs get to most stores.

Nathan: Yeah, they are big. Very big. But, yeah...

J.N.: Ok. Next topic. I don't know why, but I like to hear people's responses to this question- what's your favorite part of playing live?

Nathan: Probably the best part is that when you're playing in a town that isn't yours and there's a bunch of people there and they're singing along, it's weird. Like, if we go to Europe and we're in Germany and people are singing along to our songs, it's like, how does that happen. We started out seven years ago, touring around, and nobody knew who the fuck we were and then all of a sudden people in Europe know our lyrics. It's just cool to have people get out of what you're doing the same stuff that you get out of it. The same excitement and fun and stuff that you are. So it's cool. That's my favorite part I guess. And also just meeting new people and stuff 'cause I'm a very outgoing person. It's just really neat to meet new people and make friends and stuff. It's cool cause we'll go on tour and it's like we're playing in Massachuesetts, yeah the Palladium, and you visualize where that is and you know it. You know people you're going to see there. It's cool.

J.N.: They should move the show up here, there's better acoustics.

Nathan: Yeah, I know, right? Right in this room.

J.N.: Everyone was like, I wanna play upstairs cause it's more intimate and what not.

Nathan: Some say it's weird. It's one of those things where you're damned if you do damned if you don't. It's a catch 22 because last time we played here, we played upstairs and the people who worked here told us we couldn't play upstairs any more because there were too many people, it gets too packed, and it was like, ok we'll do whatever we have to do to play. And honestly, I... Let me say this with also saying a bunch of other stuff... There's a lot of bands that always are like, "I hate these big stages" and shit, and I like them, because if you notice upstairs, we play or a bigger band plays, everybody gets up on stage and nobody can see what's going on. If you have a big enough stage, everyone can see what's going on- everyone's involved. Instead of just this big crowd of people and every going, "Hey, what's..."- it sucks for them. They paid money too, they want to have fun too and everybody can't fit on the stage. Plus a big enough stage gives us enough room to run around instead of just "God, I can't jump this way or I'm going to punch Rob in the face", so it's nice. And better sound and stuff, so I have to actually say that I like it a lot better. Not to be stupid and rock star like, it's for honest reasons. I really like playing bigger stages better, it's just better for everyone I think. Unless you're a smaller band, then it's better to play smaller places. To have fifty people in this huge room, it's like, "Ok, this feels real dumb". It's cool though.

J.N.: Yeah, one of the last bands that just played upstairs was Kicked in the Head, and they have so many people in their band, everyone was just like this (imitates a guy on the NYC subway going home from work).

Nathan: Yeah, it sucks.

J.N.: With the small stages and the big stages, what do you think of all the success you've had, where people kind of know you now? Not to mention anything imparticular, but we have this chain of stores called Hot Topic.

Nathan: Yeah.

J.N.: And your shirts are in there.

Nathan: Oh yeah. (laughing)

J.N.: Like, that kind of thing- the first day you walk into Hot Topic and see your shirt.

Nathan: Yeah, we have Hot Topics in Delaware too. It's funny, cause we have at home merchandising too, through our web page, and our merch guy, he was very influential of getting our shirts into Hot Topic- at least the ones we do- like the ones that Initial do, they obivously got in there. And the ones that we do- that we make ourselves- he got them into Hot Topic for us. It's funny though, because walking in there, it's like, Korn, Slipknot, Boy Sets Fire. It's cool because honestly, we're really psyched about getting bigger and doing whatever we can because- I'm not even going to use the stupid cliche of more people, we can get out to more people, blah blah blah- number one, it just feels fucking good that people are that into it and that you can get that big, that people will accept that, listen to it and get the same thing out of it. And not only that, but you get your message out to more people and honestly I think I'd rather compete with Korn and Slipknot than another hardcore band who actually has something good to say. I think that mainstream music and bigger bands and stuff need a little competition to kick them in the ass, because a lot of bands have shit to say. It's like, you're pissed, we're pissed too, why? I don't know, let's break something. What the fuck is that? I wanna be a positive role model and say things. There are other bands that I actually respect- whether I'm into their music or not- like Papa Roach, they have something to say. It's not really my thing, but it's nice to see that some bands at least say something and help people. We're really psyched about being popular, getting big, especially being a bunch of guys from working class poor backgrounds, growing up poor and not really getting any where in life and just feeling like we're going to work some dead end construction job or McDonald's for the rest of our lives. And all of a sudden this shitty little band that we were doing, that was getting us even more poor and breaking up marriages, all of a sudden is getting some where and doing something for us. It's great. We're psyched.

J.N.: Plus right now with the way the music scene is on the radio and Mtv, it's all Korn and Limp Bizkit, but everyone's so apprehensive about one of these underground bands becoming mainstream.

Nathan: Right.

J.N.: But, even if one band did break through than don't you think other bands could break through too and eventually what is the underground now would be the mainstream, and I'd much rather sit there and watch Mtv and see a video for you or another band that I enjoy as opposed to seeing Korn.

Nathan: A bunch of crap that just doesn't matter, yeah. I don't even pay attention to a lot of the shit any more. It honestly used to really personally effect me, with the whole sell out thing. It personally offended me because these are the people that I trusted in. The hardcore scene is what got us where we are, and that was my family, so you expect your family to be happy for you, because we're not going to be like, "fuck hardcore". Even though we're not neccesarily hardcore, we were brought up in the hardcore scene and that's the only reason we're here. It's through our own hard work and also through the help, love and respect of the hardcore scene. So it hurt really bad when a lot of people were like, "sell out" and blah blah blah, and all "Victory" and "you're doing this" and it's like, come on guys...It's like your mom or your dad being, "you're not good enough" or "you're not doing it the right way". Not it's just like, ok, if they're gonna be like that... 'Cause you gotta do that every once in a while. It's not neccesarily the hardcore scene, but certain people and certain cliques within it that you've gotta tune out because what are they doing? They're talking a bunch of shit, and the more time you waste talking a lot of shit, the less time you're spending doing something that really matters. So, fuck it.

J.N.: With the whole selling out thing, people who get into bands don't really get into bands to fail and think they only want to play in front of fifteen people in their garage every night.

Nathan: When we first got started, that was the main push behind this, was just that we were gonna tour, put out demos and just get this shit going. I'm nearing thirty, and at the time we were in our early twenties, and it was like, what are we gonna do with our lives if we don't do this? We're done. If we don't make this happen, forget it. We might as well stick to our construction jobs, and waiter jobs and McDonald's. So, we gotta do something with it, or what's the point? So, that's what we're doing.

J.N.: And a lot of people are probably angry too just because they can't be in that position.

Nathan: Yeah.

J.N.: The majority of the people who makes fun of it and say bands sell out are the people who have to work at McDonald's and do the shitty 9-5 job.

Nathan: You know, I don't even think it's that, because most of the people who work the shitty job and actually have to work for a living and aren't supported by their parents- don't give a fuck. They've got bigger problems in their life. And I think a lot of people are actually psyched when they see a band do that because they can go "Hey, that could be me, I could do that". Usually it's the snotty little brats who get everything fed to them. All their lives they get whatever they want- and I don't even wanna come off as saying that's wrong, because there are people who are privaleged, and it's not their fault, it's not a bad thing. But when you're like that and then you put down other people who have to work for a living and push and struggle for what they get, that's not a good use of your resources. If they took more time using the privalege to do good and make things happen instead of using it to put down a rock band. It seems sort of pointless. If you don't like us, if you don't agree, don't bother. Go do something. Go take your beliefs and go do something with them, instead of just talking shit.

J.N.: Who's been your favorite band or your most memorable show since you've been doing this?

Nathan: It's really funny, the one that sticks out the most is we played a benefit in a school auditorium, and it was a while ago- maybe a year or two- but we played after a bunch of high school bands and there was this one hippie band that played covers, like Dave Matthews and stuff, and they got pissed off because everyone wanted them to get off the stage because they sucked and they were taking too long. So they got pissed and they took their p.a. home with them. And all the teachers were freaked out 'cause the kids were getting violent and stuff and getting angry 'cause they thought it was gonna get shut down. It was really cool too 'cause we got up, I pulled out a chair, stood on a chair and was like, you guys know these songs, right? So we played all the songs that everyone knew and everybody sang so loud that we didn't need a p.a. And it was amazing. The unity involved- there wasn't a stage it just sort of everybody packed in, singing along, yelling and jumping. It was a lot of fun. It was probably the most fun I had at a show 'cause it was just neat to see. It was the whole unifying factor, like everyone knows these songs so fuck it we're gonna have fun any way. It was really cool.

J.N.: What do you think of labels and music, as far as your music being some where inbetween... Well, people say you're- and I don't even like the word- emocore.

Nathan: I don't even know what emo means cause all music is emotional. Even if you're in some folkcore band, you got emotion, it's emotional. So, I don't even know what that means. But, as far as labeling and stuff, I think that's why some people get pissed at us a lot. Every album we put out people are like, "Ok, what are they doing now?... I don't know where to put this" So I think people put emo onto stuff. It's like how people used to label hardcore. If you don't understand it, it's emo. If it's a bunch of different stuff and you don't know where to put it, it must be emo. We don't really bother with a label, whatever people wanna call us it doesn't really matter. We don't have a label for ourselves really. We just play some music, have fun... We consider ourselves to an extent a hardcore band because it's where we came from, but... whatever.

J.N.: What do you think about with Napster right now?

Nathan: If you talk to different people in the band, you'd get different opinions, all of them sort of being in the negative vain. Me, personally, I'm not a big fan. I could give a fuck if Metallica gets ripped off, who cares, they've got enough money. But, it's also good for smaller bands, really small bands that put the stuff on themselves, and it helps them out a lot- and that's great. I think though for sort of midrange bands- us and other people- it hurts a little bit. It would be cool if it were live and rare stuff. If somebody has that, put it on there. But, our whole record before it comes out, it's like, come on. I think that's a little too much. Also, I'm not a big fan. I've always- and I think it's something my parents instilled in me, my parents are both musical- and they always got mad if I taped something instead of buying it. It was like, you're ripping off the artist, blah blah blah and it was just something that was instilled in me, and I don't do it. I'll make a mix tape for myself or somebody else, but I won't put a whole album on a tape and give it to somebody else, or I won't get one myself. It's just, I don't burn cds. It's just how I am, I don't do it. It's just a personal preference I guess as far as I'm concerned. But, honestly, to tell you the truth, I don't give a fuck. That's my opinion, but if Napster keeps on going, what the fuck does it matter to me? Either way I... Whatever.

J.N.: Do you think music should have a negative or positive impact on people?

Nathan: I think people can get stuff from a lot of different sources. Even if it's a negative sort of down song. I'll give you an example- country music. There's a lot of older country especially, very down, very my job's gone my wife's gone my dog's dead sort of stuff, and honestly, it's sort of positive. And I don't think people realize how many times country music has saved them from getting picked off by some guy who just got laid off from his job, because people at home listen to that music and go, "somebody knows what I'm going through... This happened to me too". In that respect, it's actually good. There are people out there that just talk about how miserable things are going and other people come in and go, "I can relate, that's me" and that keeps them from taking it out in other ways, like shooting people. That's definitely positive. Positive can come out of a lot of things. I can't say what bands should do, I just think that there is a way to use both.

J.N.: In the end though, should everyone have this good feeling?

Nathan: No, 'cause I also think there's a point for bands to kick people in the ass some times, and not make them feel good. We've tried to do it several times with songs, stop patting yourself on the back kind of stuff- you're not that cool and neither are we. I think that's important too. That's a room for the happy feel good stuff, there's a room for the down and depressing, there's a room for the get off your fucking ass you're not doing enough, the stop acting like an idiot type of stuff. No, I think if everything was just happy go lucky and got a good feeling all the time, it'd be boring. It'd be a scene of people who felt too good all the time to get anything done. I don't think that's all important, to be happy and stuff all the time. Plus that's just not reality. You have to be realistic and cover the whole gammit of life. You can't just be like, "yeah, good stuff... posi!" all the time.

J.N.: Well, like, with the Hope Conspiracy though, they're a hardcore band and they have angry music, but it's still postive in the end.

Nathan: Well, they're an excellent band number one. I love them a lot, they're good. They're a really good band. And yeah, there's a lot of bands like that, there's lots of negative stuff and their music's like terrorizing and insane but at the same time, people get stuff out of that. It's not all about just- and this will sound funny coming from me- but I don't think every band needs to have a message either. If that's our thing, we do that. But I like NOFX, I like bands that just sing about silly shit because I think that's important too. I think there's a big need for people to have fun when they listen to music, not just feel like they're getting lectured. And I think that helps people too- to forget about their problems every once in a while and just have fun, and I really think that helps a lot of people. Being in reality all the time is boring as fuck. You don't want to be stuck in that and serious and tense and real- that's boring. It's something that we've actually tried to change. We talk still, I've tried to cut it down, sort of condence it and keep the energy up, instead of like, break for a half hour lecture. We had a videotape from Crazyfest, not this past one but the one before that, and I was watching that going, "Shut up, get to the song, Jesus Christ what's wrong with me, I'm talking for a half hour, God no wonder people are like shut up and play". So we've definitely tried to condence it a lot and just maybe use samples too a little more with political themes, and use the interview more, with stuff that we believe in. Talk about it, have lyrics about it, but at the same time, also make sure the people know that you're there to have fun too. Smile, laugh, tell jokes, fuck with people, don't just stand there and stare at people like, "You need to do this", that's just boring and stupid.

J.N.: What kind of messages are you trying to get out to people?

Nathan: I think number one is the idea that we can actually make a difference. I think that a lot of bands have said that, but we're another. I think we've been able to get the point across to a lot of people. No matter how many times people have heard that said to them, I don't think it's gotten through to a lot of people, that they feel that they can actually make a difference and they can actually do something with their life and they can make a change in their families and their communities and the world. I don't think it set through. It's cool because a lot of times we'll get emails, phone calls, letters from people saying I went to your show I listened to what you had to say and I'm doing this this and this now. Not that I feel that we're the big daddy sitting back telling people what to do and it makes us proud of our children, but it's just nice to know we can actually inspire people to actually do that because that's what we're trying to do. I think second off we're trying to get people to stop the fighting within the scene because it's getting us nowhere. The hardcore against punk, it's the most ridiculous shit I've ever seen in my life. You got one kid with dyed hair arguing with another kid with dyed hair, one's hardcore, one's punk and they're arguing about something that I don't fucking know what it is. Just put off the petty shit- complaining about rock bands being sell outs, and who's a hypocrite and who's not, it just doesn't matter. Think about the big picture and what can really be done with all of our energy that we're using arguing with each other. And number three- have a good time. It's not all about being intense and political all the time, it's about having fun too. We have to have fun. Otherwise if somebody comes into a show or you're talking to them about revolution and change, what the fuck do they want to be involved with it if they can't have fun doing it? Nobody wants to be involved in something you can't smile, laugh and dance to. I think that's very important.

Links:

Boy Sets Fire
Wind Up Records
Victory Records
NCA