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The following are a couple of posts I wrote for Assamnet:
ASSAMESE TRANSLITERATION
PROPOSAL:
I would like to propose the following as time frame for adoption of a "standard".
My ideas are all preliminary and subject to change based on comments.
1) The proposal that we work out here will be placed on some Web sites. More Web
sites the better. We should try to publiicize the effort in in newspapers in Assam
and other Assamese Web sites. I propose that for a period of three (?) months,
other proposals should be accepted. This is the CFP (Call For Proposals) period.
As a proposal is received it is posted in the same Web sites.
2) All proposals obtained at this time will be discussed for a period of 3 (?)
months. This is the CFC (Call For Comments) period. All comments received in any
format will be posted on the same Web sites. People can send email or send letters
or whatever. We can scan letters and post them on a specific Web site and its mirrors.
3)After this, the proposals will be discussed (where?, I propose right here and a
pre-specified Web site) say for a period of 3(?) months, and then a Recommendation,
Version 1 (i.e., a "standard") is accepted.
4) However, the Recommendation is always open for debate. Similar debates should
be carried out and future versions accepted every 2-3 (?) years. This is essentially
the process by which every "standard" in the computer world is being accepted and updated.
Jugal Kalita
PS: The time periods mentioned above are all my estimates. They can be changed.
PROPOSED TRANSLITERATION SCHEME:
In order to overcome the obstacles in the transliteration of Assamese words
I propose the following transliteration scheme mostly based on the standard
devanagari ITRANS transliteration charts. This scheme is not meant for use
in software program just becaue it is too complicated and scores of mor
practical systems can be figured out to do the same ... The following is based
on the sound of the letter in International Phonetic Alphabet and its equivalent
expression in English and can be used to write Assamese words in English...
VOWELS
Transliteration Suggested Sound/IPA Expression
1 o .............. Open-Mid Back Unrounded(Inverted a)
2 aa ............. Open Front Unrounded (Lower case a)
3 i .............. Close Front Unrounded (Lower case i)
4 ii or I ........ Close Central Unrounded (Barred i)
5 u .............. Close Back Rounded (Lower case u)
6 uu or U ........ Close Back Un-Rounded (Turned m) (???)
7 rri or ri....... Near- Close Front Un-Rounded (Small Capital I)
8 e .............. Open- Mid Front Unrounded (Epsilon)
9 oi ............. Close-Mid Central ROunded (Barred O )
10 oo ............. Close- Mid Back Rounded (Lower Case O )
11 ou ............. Close- Mid Back Unrounded (Baby Gamma )
CONSONANTS**
While introducing consonants, we do it by adding the generic form of
the consonant with the first vowel. Since the first vowel is transcribed
as /o/ instead of /a/ in this table, so all consonant-endings change to
an o-ending..
Transliteration Suggested Sound/IPA Symbol
1 ko ............. Voiceless Velar Plosive (Lower Case K)
2 kho ............ Aspirated Ka(???????)
3 go ............. Voiced Velar Plosive (Lower case g)
4 gho ............ Aspirated ga (????????)
5 ngo or N^o ..... Voiced Uvular Nasal (Small Capital N)
6 so ............. Voiceless Aveolar Fricative (Lower Case s)
7 sho ............ Voiceless Post-Aveolar Fricative (Esh)
8 jo ............. Voiced Postaveolar Fricative (Yogh)
9 jho ............ Palatalised ja ( ja^j)
10 jjnno or niyo .. Voiced palatal Nasal(Left tail N at left)
11 tto or To ...... Voiceless Aveolar Plosive (Lower case T)
12 ttho or Tho .... Aspitated Ta (tta^h)
13 ddo or Do ...... Voiced Aveolar Plosive (Lower case D)
14 ddho or Dho .... Aspirated Da (dda^h)
15 nno or No....... Voiced Aveolar Nasal(Lower Case N)
16 to ............. Voiceless Retroflex Plosive (T with Right Tail)
17 tho ............ Aspirated ta (ta^h)
18 do ............. Voiced Retroflex Plosive (Right Tail D)
19 dho ............ Aspirated da(da^h)
20 no ............. Voiced Retrofelx nasal (N with right tail)
21 po ............. Voiceless Bilabial Plosive (Lower Case p)
22 pho ............ Voiceless Bilabial Fricative (Phi)
23 bo ............. Voiced Bilabial Plosive (Lower Case b)
24 bho ............ Voiced Bilabial Fricative (Beta)
25 mo ............. Voiced Bilabial Nasal (Lower Case M)
26 yo ............. Voiced palatal Fricative (Curly Tail J)
27 ro ............. Voiced Aveolar Approximant (Turned R)
28 lo ............. Voiced Aveolar Lateral Approximant (Lower Case L)
29 wo ............. Voiced RetroflexLateral Approximant(l withtail)(?)
30 xho ............ Voiceless Labiodental Fricative (Lower Case F)
31 xhho ........... Voiceless Epiglottal Fricative (Small Capital H)
32 xo ............. Voiceless Uvular Fricative (Chi)
33 ho ............. Voiceless Glottal Fricative (Lower Case H)
34 ksho ..... ..... Aveolo-palatal Fricative (Curly Tail C)
35 jyo ............ Voiced Palatal Approximant( Lower case J)
36 ro(?)
37 ro(?)
In the above chart there has been quite a few deviations from the devanagari
system. For Example the "sha, shha, sa" have been transliterated as "xha,
xhha, xa" because unlike Hindi or Sanskrit, the "s" in those is often
pronounced as "x" e.g. Axam in assamese instead of Asam in Hindi. Also the
"va" has been transliterated as "wa" in Assamese.
If a system like the one stated above can be agreed upon by one and all,
then to transcribe Assamese words we just have to replace the assamese
letters with their corresponding english group of alphabets..(omitting the
the "a" in the consonants whne they appear at the end of the word). It will
remove all ambiguity whatsoever on the question of how an assamese word s
hould be written in English.
The only way the system envisioned can be a success is if people debate over
the transliteration and the sounds of the language until it reaches an acceptable
level of accuracy. The reference to the devnagari script transliteration chart
can be found at...
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/tugg/devnagari.html
The IPA help file which contains the IPA chart and all the sound files for individual
sound for reference can be downloaded from
http://www.sil.org/computing/speechtools/softdev2/Downloads2/SatDL2/Release2/setup-ih.exe
or you can go to the link from
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/tugg/devnagari.html
Syamanta Saikia.
DISCUSSIONS AND AGREEMENTS:
ON VOWELS
vowel 1:
##1 is there a problem using "o" instead of "a" at the end of each letter?
that is "ko" instead of "ka". to me, "ko" sounds more phonetic. .....Saurav da
##2 The assamese sound 'a' as in axam (the Near-Open Central Unrounded vowel)
is unknown to english speakers.... the sounds nearing them are:
1. the near-open front unrounded...e.g., the 'a' in glass
2. open front unrounded e.g., the 'a' in path ......which is actually the
Assamese transcribed "aa" e.g., aah (come)
3. mid central unrounded ....e.g. 'a' in zebra
From the sound it seems like the assamese 'a' starts from the front part of
the mouth ( I may be mistaken and another sound the open back unrounded sounds
much like it even though it depends a lot on the tongue position of the speaker.)
When spoken with a RP(Received Pronunciation) accent unlike the Indian accent the
English "o" starts at the very back of the mouth. e.g., 'o' in over. Moreover in
the IPA sound files, the 'o' (not the 'o' in english but the /o/ sound in IPA)
sounds almost exactly like the 'o' as in ola (get out). >From the above it seems
that the alphabet 'a' better approximates the corresponding Assamese sound.So I have
decided to say axam instead of oxom. But then as I said...... what notation u use is
vastly a matter of opinion....since the 'a' sound is Assamese is not available in
English in any case we have to do a compromise. Neither axam not osom is actually
correct .....it all depends on how we decide to pronounce the 'a' and 'o' in
transliterated literature. ......Syamanta
##3 i accept your arguments. but the purpose of suggesting "o" instead of "a" was to
make native speakers comfortable with the transliteration, not foreign speakers. as
jugal-da pointed out, the "a" makes it uncomfortable. i use transliterated assamese
sometimes in my personal emails. and to me "o" came naturally. i am afraid that if the
native speaker doesnot feel comfortable, he will desist from using it, and then there
will be no need for a scheme anyway. on the other hand a standard, widely accepted
scheme has many advantages......saurav da
##4.. The 'o' u propose is DEFINITELY superior to my paltry 'a' while typing for the
layman... Now there are two things we can do about the 'a'/'o' perplexity.... 1. Change
the original scheme and use 'o' as a Universal Standard. 2. Use 'o' in
"roman-input-to-assmese-font-output" softwares and use "a" while writing Assamese words
in english.. If we use the "o' as an universal standard we might face quite a few problems
....e.g., as Mr. Rabin Deka pointed out .....we will write Chandra kanta Bharali or Chondro
Kanto Bhorali ?? Thats why I guess using 'o' when we r using "roman characters as input and
want to get assamese characters as output" and using 'a' when ' we start from assamese
characters but wanna get roman characters as out put' should be a better suggestion
.... Syamanta
##5 I see one solution where in some contexts, we use "a" and in some other contexts,
we use "o" for the first vowel. Based on the context, the processing needs to be uniquely
done. ... Jugal da
##6 How about the sound of 'a' as in paw, law, etc. Just my 2 cents... Neep Hazarika
##7 the "o" instead of "a" is important for the casual writer, as well as those who
wants to write naturally (e.g jugal kalita). we should give a serious thought to this.
jugal-da mentions there are some technical difficulties. maybe we should try to solve them.
"Chandra Kanta Bharali" and "condro kanto bhorali" is not a real problem, because "condro
kanto bhorali" is written in transliteration, not in english. there is a difference. my
name would be "xourobh" or something like that. and i have no problem with it. my guess is,
if your transliteration scheme becomes popular, many people will prefer to write their names
in your scheme, and not in the regular english spelling. my guess is, we will increasingly see
"xonjoi", "jugol", "sondon", "xoikia" etc. .. Saurav da
##8 My reason for sticking with /a/ instead of /o/ as the first vowel was more phonetic than
practical. In hindsight I think /o/ is more natural for us and so I have replaced /a/ with /o/ .
As a result, I had to change the old /o/ as in konoba(someone) to koonooba. (I am not sure
how much phonetic or practical /oo/ is and it would be great if someone comes up with an alternative).
Also /aa/ has been changed to /a/. (thanx due to the intial posts of rajen da).
...Syamanta
##9 >As an exmaple, it seems to me, that it is awkard to use "O" for the first
>letter of the Assamese alphabet in transliteration.
Why is it so? Why for example would it sound more right to write the word 'odhom' as
'adhom'? Or for that matter the word 'ohingxa or ohingxaa' as 'ahimsa'? I also find it
totally redundant to chase 'dirgho-ee' ' dirgho-u' and the like. I can see the problem of
transliterating a word like 'wroni' ass either 'uroni' or 'ooroni'. Neither of the latter two
are intuitive, while the first is somehat awkard. But is it really awkard? The English word
WHY does not look awkard. Nor does WHETHER or WHIMSICAL. It is for this reason that I think
the solution suggested by Rajen, to use the letter 'w' or 'W' to represent the Oxomia 'W'
sound as in 'wbhwt maat' ( profane word) or 'bhwta or bhWta toraa'. There will certainly be
some cases where it would be not exactly an easy or fluid and totally intuitive soultion.
...C. Mahanta da
##10 If we think of 'A' ('O' as in Oxom or Osom, even) being equivalent to the english
letter 'A', because they are the first letters in Assamese and English (and on the computer
keyboard starter line), then it becomes difficult to accept - why shouln't our 'Asm' be
written with the first English letter 'A'?...Alpana baideu
##11 a: .... ( half open, back) as in 'ba:l'= strength (written by Assamese + letter o)
...Rajen da
vowel 2:
##1 + a ..... (open, central) as in 'bap'=father (written by the Assamese + letter a)
.....Rajen da
## 2
>+ a ..... (open, central) as in 'bap'=father is the same as my 'a'.
Your pronunciation is (open central) my suggested is (Open Front Unrounded ) actually if
u did care to look you will see how unnatural it is to make a vowel sounds "open central".
It is so unnatural that NOT even a single dialect in the world uses it !!
##3 Your challenge about the 'a' not being a central, is actually a challenge to Dr
Banikanta Kakoty (Doctorate under Sunity Kumar Chatterjee), Dr Golok Ch Goswami and others.
I have nothing to say as I donot state to be a linguistic. .....Rajen da
##4 The following is what I was talking about when I said it bothers me when I see too many
consonants without a vowel in between. A semi-vowel like "w" can't take place of a vowel in
my mind! When I see Chandan da type KHWA, HWPA, DHWAT, LWA, PWRA, LOGWA, NWPWA, etc., I cringe!
Why not type them as the ones after the => instead? They will look a lot more "natural" and
comfortable to most people!
khwa => khuwa
Hwpa => hupa
dhwat => dhuwat lwa => l
uwa logwa => loguwa
nwpwa => nupuwa (nwpwa has four non-vowels together making it look the strangest so far!)
##5 >I bet he will wonder because he is seeing it for the first time. Then of course he will
know about using W.....
Let me quote what Dr Golok Ch Goswami, the Assamese linguistic stated in favor of usingW in
Assamese Roman script in a personal letter to me back 1992 when I was also in doubt like you
and asked his opinion.
This is q quote from that letter:"Barua : ........WOr karone OO, W aru WO ei tiniwta kio lage?
Ei tniwtar thait kewol W lolei bhal hoi. W akhor lole WAB.BO aru WO duiwtare kam solibo. Kenekoi
sawk: byonjon bornor pasote W thakile i WO sor bujabo; jene, MWR (my). TWMAR (your),
BHWLANATH, ityadi. Kintu Sorobornor pasot ba duta soror majot thakile i WO ba WAB.BO dhoni
bujabo. jene: DEW-BHUT (WO dhoni), DEWE (WAAB.BO dhoni), GAWOR (of village>WAB.BO), BWARI (WAB.BO),
XW~ORON (remembrance), ityadi. " - Dr Golak Ch Goswami.(12/24/92).Please note that in bengali,
the typical Assamese WO sound is not found. They have WO-kar as well as the WO akhor. But it sound
like O'. They write MAGW but say it as MAGO'. Dr Sunity Kr Chatterjee; book also state that this W
phonem in Bengali is pronounced as O as in the word 'bone'. But In Assamese we prounce it a
deep WO in words : GWHALI, AKWALI, MWR, etc.
##6
>>>A semi-vowel like "w" can't take place of a vowel in my mind! I >>THINK IT IS IN YOUR MIND.
I DON"T HAVE ANY PROBLEM. A SEMI VOWEL WE CAN >>SURELY USE AS A FULL VOWEL. >I don't think not
liking the transliteration >"NWPWA", but liking "nupuwa" instead is a >personal bias.
First lets remember what our goal was..."To be able to write Assamese and communicate in it in a
natural way using the Roman keyboard in today's computers. (esp. for use by people who know the
language and just want to converse in it). It has to be intuitive to use." For that it is very
necessary to have a 1-1 correspondence between the alphabets and their transliterations.... Now,
NWPWA = n, + oo (oo-kar....as in joowa...go + p, + oo (oo-kar) +w, + a (the second vowel as in aha..
come in) The problem whether the program will interpret W as the generic form of "wo" OR as oo-kar
(as in after n,) OR as a combination of (oo-kar and w,) as in after p, . So we see here that the W
is being used to interpret 3 different assamese alphabets..... This is unacceptable in an automated
program. Also if we write "nupua" as Jugal da says , how will we say kukur (dog) ?? the program will
interpret u (in kukur)= oo-kar (in nupua). /u/ in place of oo-kar will be disastrous..... e.g., jua
means go (as oo-kar) or gambling(as u-kar)..?? thats why i suggest using /u/ as in juwa(gambling).....
w(as in the generic for of wo the consonant) and oo( as in oola.....come out)
............. Syamanta
##7 Assamese has the letter "wa" ("wabbo") as in "bowa" (meaning "flow" or to "weave" as well;
i would prefer to type it as "buwa" myself). It is composed of the following letters/signs in
Assamese:
1) the letter "ba",
2) the sign for o-kar (as in "mor" or "mur" or mine)
3) the letter "wa" or "wabbo"
4) the "a" kar. How would Chandan da or Rajen da write it (hopefully "bwa")? If that's the case,
won't 2) and 3) above be confused? Which one of 2) or 3) above is "w" in the transliteration expressing?
Or are you proposing "w" as a single transliteration symbol that combines 2) and 3) above, i.e.,
"o-kar" followed by "wabbo"? If "w" in transliteration stands for two characters: 2) followed by 3)
above, it's essentially a complex way to do things. ....Jugal da
##8 Let's compare Shymanta's and Rajenda's ideas for the 5th and the 9th vowels. Here are some examples.
1) dog = kukur (both Shyamanta and Rajen da)
2) fire == jui (both Shyamanta and Rajen da)
3) i will sit by fire == moi jui poowam (Shyamanta) moi jui pwam (Rajen da)
4) hug == akoowali loowa (Shyamanta), akwali lwa (Rajen da)
5) gamble = juwa (both Shyamanta and Rajen da)
6) go now == etiya joowa (Shyamanta), etiya jwa (Rajen da)
7) not get it == noopoowa (Shyamanta), nwpwa (Rajen da)
8) (you) please eat = khoowa (Shyamanta), khwa (Rajen da)
9) to burn = poora (Shymanta), pwra (Rajen da)
10) (you) do not eat == nookhoowa (Shyamanta), nwkhwa (Rajen da)
11) young cow or calf = goru poowali (Shyamanta), goru pwali (Rajen da)
Good points about Shyamanta's proposal ---------------------------------------------
Shymanata's maintains 1-1 mapping. Shymanta's proposal has no problems with either the vowels
or the 'wabbo".
Bad points about Shyamanta's proposal
--------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any.
Good points about Rajenda's proposal
-------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that phonetically speaking, Rajenda's use of "w" is intuitive if
it is directly followed by a vowel, as in "khwa" or "lwa".
Bad points about Rajenda's proposal
----------------------------------------------------
A) The use of "w" by Rajenda seems unintuitive when the "w" is not followed by
a vowel as in "nwkhwa" (the first "w" here is not intuitive to me because it is
not immediately followed by a vowel, whereas the second "w" is because it is immediately
followed by the vowel "a"). So, I doubt if the expressive power that Rajenda sees in "w"
comes from a) the "w" itself, or b) the vowel that follows it, or c) from a combination of
"w" followed by the vowel.
B) The spellings "nwkhwa", "nwpwa" are awkward to me, and possibly incorrect according to
Rajenda's own scheme. A possible correction in Rajenda's transliteration?
-------------------------------------------
Rajenda seems to ignore the trailing "wabbo" in some of his transliterations. Maybe, to
express the last "wabbo" in such words, Rajenda should spell them more correctly as "nw khw wa"
or "nw pw wa". The last "wa" then represents "wabbo" followed by "a-kar". In that case, the
spellings become even more awkward. I wouldn't like to type "nwpwwa" or "nwkhwwa" if I had a choice!
-----
I like Shyamanta's proposal better because of the considerations above unless
Rajen da comes up with a way to distinguish between the use of "w" as a semi-vowel in
transliteration and the useful Assamese letter "wabbo" in a more attractive manner.
Why should "noopoowa" (in Shyamanta's scheme) should be writen as "nwpwa" in your scheme
and not as "nwpwwa"? Here, "nw" is "no" followed by the w-kar (or oo-kar in Shyamanta's scheme),
"pw" is "po" followed by the w-kar (or oo-kar in Shyamanta's scheme), and the last "wa"
is the wabbo followed by a-kar. .
.... Jugal Da
vowels 3,4,5,6:
##1 However, one need to stick to basic Assamese phonetics. + Please note that Assamese
has EIGHT (8) vowel sounds although we have + more letters. Against this the English language
has 22 vowel sounds. Please note that in Assamese HORSO E & DIRGHO E , HORSO U & DIRGHO U + etc
have the same sounds. (Please read Dr Banikanta Kakaoty and + others).
##2 ii or I ........ Close Central Unrounded (Barred i) >
IN ASSAMESE WE DONOT HAVE A SEPARATE SOUND FOR DIRGHO E. BOTH THE Es ARE PRONOUNCED SAME.
uu or U ........ Close Back Un-Rounded (Turned m) (???) >
IN ASSAMESE WE DONOT HAVE A SEPARATE SOUND FOR DIRGHO U. BOTH THE Us ARE PRONOUNCED SAME.
I have a separate 'ii' for two reasons...
1. The baisc idea of transliteration is to establish a one-to-one correspondence between a
letter in the source language to an alphabet(or a group of alphabets). So we cannot have any ambiguity
while translitering. If we have an alphabet in Assamese we MUST have an english counterpart so as to
remove any ambiguity..
2. I am pretty dumb in this respect but i thought the name Dirgho-e implies in itself that the sound
is supposed to be longer and when i tried to observe the Assamese words with that alphabet i thought that
they sounded/ can be sounded a little longer. Now in other languages while elongating a sound from another
very close sound (esp vowels) what happens phonetically is that the sounds starts a little backwards in the
mouth.....it gives a sense of elongation. For example in Arabic alphabet the "ayn" is an elongated form of
the "Alif" and so the mouth position is same while pronouncing both but 'ayn' starts further inside the mouth
than 'alif'.. and in egyptian the 'h' corresponding to the Hebrew "hê" and the "h.a" both are same
but one is longer than the other and so starts later than the other... So I guessed since ' i '
is the Close Front Unrounded, so Dirgho-e should be Close Central Unrounded and when i compared
the sounds it sounded much like what the dirgho-e is expected to be.
This is the reason I put two different alphabets. The same explanation for the dirgho-u.. >rri or
R^i ..... Near- Close Front Un-Rounded (Small Capital I)
>NOW A DAYS THIS LETTER IS NOT WRITTEN IN ASSAMESE LANGUAGE.
I am not aware of what is going on right now but if you donot write"rri" then how will you write
"rrixhhi"(saint) ?? also there is the rri-kar we have to consider !!
>IN ADDITION TO THE ABOVE, ASSAMESE HAS THE FOLLOWING TWO ADDITIONAL VOWEL SOUNDS.
>O' = KO'LA (BLACK) AS OPPOSED TO KOLA (DEAF)
>E'= BE'L (BELL) AS OPPOSED TO BEL (FRUIT)
The small comma in o' and e' are not actually new vowels......they are called the SUPRASEGMENTALS...
They are used to experss Tones and word accents..... /o/ mean it is flat../o'/ means we have to
say it at a high level ../o''/ means we have to say it at a higher level. Even in english we have o'...
like seven o' clock... but it doesnot qualify o' or for that matter e' to be a new vowel. All the rest
of your concerns stem from the fact of whether we ahould tranliterate Assam as axam or oxom ......and
I am right hearing from everyone that it should be oxom......but i guess it will be better to give this
thing some more thought..... But in the end there has to be some form of accepted standard
..... Syamanta.
vowel 7:
##1
>rri or R^i ..... Near- Close Front Un-Rounded (Small Capital I) >NOW A DAYS THIS LETTER IS NOT WRITTEN IN
ASSAMESE LANGUAGE.
...Rajen da
##2
I am not aware of what is going on right now but if you donot write"rri" then how will you write "rrixhhi"
(saint) ?? also there is the rri-kar
we have to consider !!
.....Syamanta
##3 it doesnot have the "ri" sound......i wonder how you are going to say "rixhi" !! "ri" is an
independent monothong and cannot be approximated by any vowel/consonant
.....Syamanta
vowels 9, 11
##1
ai ............. Close-Mid Central ROunded (Barred O )
THIS IS ACTUALLY A DIPHTHONG. MAY BE WRITTEN AS OI
au ............. Close- Mid Back Unrounded (Baby Gamma )
AGAIN IT IS A DIPTHONG. NOT A BASIC VOWEL
..........Rajen da
##2 it misses the "oi" and "ou" diphthongs even though oi= o + i and ou= o + u
that is why i guess scholars dont think of it as a separate
vowel but then i guess since it has its own already defined characters in assamese.....
i see no problem in transliterating them ratcher then
creating an artificial problem by omitting them and then solving the problem when
we encounter them..... o+i will be oi when we write
down whethe we define it separately or not....
.....Syamanta
Vowel 10:
##1
o ............. Close- Mid Back Rounded (Lower Case O )
MAY BE WRITTEN AS W. THIS SOUND IS NOT THERE IN ENGLISH, NOR IN HINDI OR BENGALI
...Rajen da
##2
Look at ##8 for vowel 1.....and ##5, ##6, ##7 and ##8 for vowel 2.
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