Spike vs the Scoobies Posted by: goddessincarnate - May 02, 2002, 5:41 AM 4 of 6 Spike has been the only thing worth watching the whole season (well, him and the musical). I just saw the preview for next week, and it looks as though the chip might be out (I hope, I hope). I am wondering if he wished for it while he and Anya were drinking, because when Zander attacks him he says that he won't fight Zander "even without the chip"... but it's probably just wishful thinking on my part. This has been one of the weaker seasons (not as bad as the initiative, but close) since the villain has been reality (as though we weren't all facing that one already). But on to Spike vs. the Scoobies. Have Buffy and Zander become a pair of self-righteous hypocrites this season or what? Buffy keeps accusing Spike of having no heart and no soul, but she's the one that won't admit her feelings for him, and she's the one that is using him for sex. And what about Zander... he called Spike a heartless, soulless thing, but he's the one who cheated on Cordy with Willow, and he's the one that stood Anya up at the alter, and he's the one that has pined after Buffy for five years while claiming to love these other girls... how much heart has he shown? As for Spike, he has saved them and fought for them countless times, and while the chip keeps him from killing them, it certainly doesn't mean he has to help them every week. He has shown more love for Buffy by going against his vampire-ness every week than the rest of them put together. How can anyone who loves a person enough to fight their true nature like that week after week not have a heart? How can anyone who loves that much not have a soul? ======================================================= ======================================================= For ONCE Xander and Buffy have to deal with the consequences of taking a lover for granted... Posted by: Plum_Jade_and_BardsBlade - Apr 30, 2002, 10:04 PM Okay, so Buffy harps on and on at Spike "I don't love you...You have to accept that...You have to move on..." and got a nice slice of humble pie!!! (Don't think she liked that nearly as much as she enjoyed Spike's attentions earlier in the season.) Xander wants to desert his loving fiance, dump her at the altar, then stride right back into her life and work on things without any consequences to himself!!!! (PSYCH!!! you big loser!!!) The only folks I have genuine sympathy for are Spike and Anya (I view the coupling between them as a little unnatural and not really "true" to either character--neither strikes me "fast and loose" when it comes to love.) But it was WORTH it to see those two self-righteous kids have to deal with it!!! Maybe they won't be quite so high and mighty now... PJ : ) ====================================================== What was the point? Part 1 Posted by: IxSpike - Apr 30, 2002, 9:57 AM Ok, its been awhile since I've posted but everyone should know that I am a big Spike fan, ever since he showed his pretty face on Buffy as the next Big Bad. And was extremely happy when he became a regular character in Season 4 but in light of the past 2 seasons with his obsession turned infatuation turned crush turned love for the slayer I kind of grew to like the idea of them together as a couple. Many of the fans whose posts I've read or who I have spoken with have mixed feelings about the idea of a Buffy/Spike relationship - the whole he's evil vampire, she's vampire slayer - but after thinking about the pass couple of seasons and the changes that have occurred and all the changes that have happened over all the seasons I have one question - WHY CAN'T SPIKE FIND REDEMPTION? Even if that redemption is the love of the slayer. Buffy really can't have a normal relationship as the slayer, just can't work out, even with a commando! - and in Spike she has an equal partner in strength and fighting ability that she doesn't have to go soft on when they get physical. You might mention the whole "but he doesn't have a soul" issue but look at 3 in soul-ed individuals: 1) Warren soul and all he is an cruel evil hearted person (point proven over and over again in season 6 2) Faith, one of the supposed good people, Slayer gone bad, tries to kill the scoobies and Buffy and almost succeeds and last but not least my fave 3) Angel who within seconds of the curse being broken started to torment and torture all those in Buffy's life - killing Jenny Calendar, almost killing countless others. And I know that the chip has played an important role in Spike’s behaving like a good guy but that is not the only thing keeping him in check, though it took sometime, I think that being involved with the Scooby Gang has changed him. He could still do evil with or without the chip, control a few minions, use black magic, hire hit man! But he didn't for whatever reason... But let me get to my point! Angel and Faith both did very evil things and still were forgiven - be it grudgingly, and they had to leave Sunnydale, but they were forgiven - now Spike who would do anything for Buffy and Dawn, sought the same forgiveness but was constantly denied by Buffy and her friends even after all he had done. To bring someone, even Spike, this close to redemption and deny it too him at the last minute (besides it being a waste of a season) only to return him to his previous state as an evil being, then you’re taking away hope. What hope? The hope that Angel has, the hope that Faith has, in that over time - with a few or a hell of a lot - of good deeds forgiveness and redemption can be found. Because of all of the spoilers floating around I have some idea of how this season is going to end, and in light of that I ask the writers that they don't let Spike go back. Let him find some peace.... because if people/vampire (which is a bit more impressive! a demon!) who are TRYING to change for the better are denied that then what does that say about the "good" people. Thanks for letting me rant! Hope it’s made some sense. I know its just a show but as a film/media person I know that a lot can be "read" into a show or film, regardless of how frivolous it may appear. ======================================================= Posted by: Five by Five! - Apr 29, 2002, 8:41 AM 1 of 3 Buffy (picking up sword): Ooo! Shiny! Demon inside the sword: For God's sake, what is it with you and two-syllable adjectives? I mean, stealthy, foamy, shiny... Buffy: *SNAP* Breaky. Buffy: How are you holding up? Tara: The word "gulp" comes to mind... Willow: Oh, come on, my blouse doesn't look THAT bad!!! Tara: I need a drink. Xander: Ta-daa! Buffy: Ooo, a weapons chest! A hard, blonde chest... like Spike's! Xander: Ah, but does Spike's have this handsome CD rack? Willow: I TOLD you never to mention Rack anymore!!! Xander (whispers): Whew, thanks for changing the subject, Will. Richard: Gee, I need to get to work... And I haven't even had breakfast yet! Spike: Oh yeah, I used to enjoy breakfast... Buffy: Spikie... Spike: What? I was just gonna say that back then, I was a real cereal killer... *chuckle* Buffy: *teehee* Spike just means that he used to devour his morning cereal like an animal... Spike: Yeah. Cause a morning without cereal is like Weetabix without bl... Buffy: *WHACK* Dawn: Get out, get out, GET OUT!!! Anya: I think she's possessed... Stephen King: Don't mind me, by the way, I'm just taking notes. Dawn: Great. Here's me basking in the love! Buffy: *SLAP* And here's you kissing the duct tape. Dawn: Mmmph! Tara: I'll do the spell. But obviously, I didn't bring any supplies... Willow: Well... I might've... kept some Yak cheese... Tara: Whaddya want us to do, stink our way out of the house? Willow: Well, the cheese does smell like an outhouse... *teehee* Anya: I think she's possessed too. Tara: Definitely. Jerry Lewis, leave this body immediately! Xander: C'mon, Will, it's just a little spell... Willow: No! Anya: We promise, we won't ask you to do any more magic after this! Willow: NO! Xander: C'mon, Will, just one spell... Willow: I said NO! Do I have to spell it out for you? Xander and Anya: YES! Please, SPELL it out!!! *creak creak* Willow: Oh my god, it looks like it’s in the wall!!! Demon: Heehee, you’ll never catch me now… Buffy: *knock knock* Demon, are you there? How do we get you out of the wall? Demon: Maybe if you sing me some Pink Floyd, like, “We don’t need no education…” *teehee* Buffy (plunges sword in wall): Oh look – demon brochette! Spike: All in all it’s just a… nother demon in the sword *teehee* Buffy: Curious, I just remembered something about you being in love with pain… Halfrek: I could hear this girl crying out wherever I went. Buffy: That's because we'd ran out of duct tape, right Dawny? Dawn: Mmph! ======================================================= relax, i'm not gonna stake myself... Posted by: outforawalkBITCH - Apr 29, 2002, 8:32 AM i wrote this for spike. it goes to Pink's 'don't let me get me'. never suck humans i don't support the gang don't like the scoobies and that slayer's sure got game. buffy slept with me, xander hated me, i am always in a fight cause they can't do nothing right every day i fight a war against the mirror don't even have a bloody reflection CHORUS: i'm a hazard to myself don't let me stake me i'm my own worst enemy it sucks when i annoy myself so frusterating don't want this freaking chip no more, i wanna be a normal vamp buffy told me i'm just a bunny all i'm aloud to suck is demons and bloody vamps tired of being compared to damn angelus he's so creepy that just ain't me so slayer slayer won't you please just give me something a night in my crypt with no one else, cause CHORUS ======================================================= Kudos to charmingslayer who gave me the idea Posted by: goolecap - Apr 27, 2002, 7:25 PM To the tune of 'The Beverley Hillbillies' "Now listen to my story about a girl called Buff, A real blond cutie, a lovely bit of stuff, And then one day in her world without a care, Came a creepy guy called Merrick, saying to "Beware!" Vamps that is , demons, nosferatu Well next thing you know Buffys burning down the gym, In order to destroy all the vampires there within, The townsfolk said "Sunnydales the place for you!" So they packed up the jeep and they moved from Malibu But wouldn't you know there's a watcher waiting for her, Plus Xander the geek and Willow the wallflower, Angel's in the shadows and Cordy rules the school, And soon she's killing vampires in ways so very cool! So tune in any every week for our heroines adventures, Which please all the kids but horrify the censors! With wit and charm and roundhouse kicks And get a heaping helping of your Buffster fix! Y'all come back now, ya'hear! ==================================================== Just read the earlier series of posts and thought I'd toss some info your way Posted by: JNW - Apr 24, 2002, 8:58 PM Check out two of the apochrypal books of the Bible. Apochryphal means unauthorized. Both The Book of Enoch and The Book of Jubilees are dated by scholars as being very, very old -- myths that precede the Greek ones by a couple thousand years. Essentially, all demons and all magic derives from the nephilim and The Watchers. Who? First, The Watchers are the angels designated by God to "watch" over Earth and specifically humans. Some fall in love/lust with humans. They not only teach humans magics, fire etc... (think Greek Prometheus myths and you'll just about have it), they also make love to mortal women. Now, their children are the nephilim -- half angel, half human (now think Hercules...) The children, according to Enoch, become cast out by God and grow darker and darker. They in turn spawn children who are demonic. Hence demons and many references to those we take in lore as vampires, werewolfs, etc... The nephilim are cast from Earth -- most accounts say destroyed, but some differ, around the time of the flood. Their demonic spawn remain. And here's where it gets really fun. Some texts claim the nephilim were heroes on Earth (again think Hercules) and champions of mankind. Possible links to Slayers you can create with your own creative liscence. Have fun! ==================================================== Posted By: Lissie. Date: April 23. 2002. There shall be no Spanya. There shall be no Spanya. "Buffy's mouth drops open at the sight on the screen before her. She feels hotness spreading through her body. Ignoring Willow's warnings, she treads off the the Magic Box. Banging the door open, like only a slayer could, Buffy walks up to the offending couple and pulls one blond off of another. In his drunken stupor, Spike slides lazily to the ground. Seething with anger, Anya approaches Buffy. Catching her wrist in her hand, Buffy says "Nah uh, Anya. I wouldn't try to mess with the slayer. Especially after she catches you with her man." Pushing her to the ground, Buffy grabs Spike by the pant leg and drags him away from the store. "Another disaster averted." she says victoriously, walking into the night." Lissie shoves the printed paper under the man's nose. "Ok, Joss. Are we clear? This is how it will end." He nods nervously, unable to talk with the silver duct tape on his mouth. "Clear?" she asks again. He nods enthusiastically. "Good." ===================================================== How about.... Posted by: goolecap - Apr 22, 2002, 5:53 PM 1. Mr Giles' Neighbourhood? "Hello children, today we're going to learn the importance of using nunchkas on pale skinned men with bumpy foreheads. Can you spell, nunchkas?" 2. Sunnydale Hills 666-911 . In tonights ep Xander desperately searches for the anti-ageing cream to keep the schoolboard from getting suspicious whilst Willow ponders why their's always a demurely pretty intellectual jewish girl in these programmes? 3. Xander's Creek- This week Xander ponders if fighting unspeakable evil was just an uncool phase he was going through whilst Buffy decides she actually fancies Angel's dad more than him. 4. SDPD Blue- faced with yet another bloodbath Detectives Uhmulmahae and Schvinglerham ponder why they've only had two murder convictions after wading kneehigh through bodies for the past six years. 5. Willow! Faced with the impending closure of her occult bookshop by nervous television executives Willow and her kooky pals solve the problem by magically turning them all into a whoop of baboons banking that no one will notice the difference except for their improved table manners ...or perhaps not? lol* - How about...... Posted by: holywater - Apr 22, 2002, 6:02 PM 1 of 2 Spike's guide to advanced demon eroticism - this week our blondie bear gives advice on poetry and interior design - to keep your exhausted post-orgasmic lady-love amused..... ------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: slayerbecca - Apr 22, 2002, 6th Season Disapointment In my personal opinion this season has been a bit of a downfall for Buffy standards, and a bit depressing. We all had our doubts when she died at the end of the 5th season, but everything down to the script and in my opinion even the acting has slipped. It is hard to live up to a 6th season. New material is hard to think of. Some episodes aren't as bad as others but mostly we are losing sight of what Buffy started out with. We went from a spunkey high schooler with attitude and a great high kick fighting unthinkable evil, to a confused burger flipper with more action in bed then with evil. The big bad this year is laughable and the shows are so predictable. In the begining seasons shows had twists and turns and you never knew how it was going to end. Buffy has seemed to loose her fire and edge that made the show worth it.I do like the reality of how her consequences finally lead up to pain, but Buffy desperatley needs more or new characters, lots of evil, and more energy. I personally think the actors, no longer first time actors but now famous and doing movies, aren't half as devoted. If they could just squeeze out one more heart pumping, real evil, nonstop action episode, then we could have some hope. I may have loved 6th season episodes like "Once more with feeling", but Buffy still needs a little more feeling. http://www.geocities.com/slayerbecca/reviewfor6th.html Visit her site. ------------------------------------------------------- How does Spike pay for his blood and booze? Some suggestions, more wanted He can't steal all his cash, i mean he's so distinctive even SDPD couldn't miss him! Posted by: goolecap - Apr 21, 2002, 6:12 PM 1. Male Stripper; Imagine the bleached one tearing off his navy dress whites to the tune of 'Lift us up where we belong'. What a shame we didn't see Anya's bachelorete party (Control yourself ladies). 2. Hairdresser; Let's face it, he looks fey and obviously knows a lot about dye jobs 3. Bouncer at Willy's bar 4. Voiceover artist for cockney characters in Disney cartoons (of which there appear to be a lot!) 5. Vamp whore pimp; the leather coat, the fancy hot rod, throw in a bejewelled cane and porkpie hat and you've got Superfly for the nineties. 6. Historian- after all, he was there! 7. Incompetent babysitter for Dawn; who is consequently scarred and will end up badly 8. Acting as a fence for what Dawn steals 9. Writer of trashy historical romances 10. Nightclass aerobics instructor " And here ladies we have what we call the invisble Buffy pressup" Any more suggestion ---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- "Bittersweet End" Posted by: Spheres of Nightmares - Apr 18, 2002, 7:08 PM Did you like it?? heres it revised--how have you been ? The cigarette's crackle is the only sound I hear as I battle the demons inside my head Voices, images, shards of emotions of things we have done and said I flick the growing ashes, and watch them glide against the rubbled ground I watch them dance and disappear, almost jealous of the freedom they have found Its been so long since your gentle body lay wrapped up in my arms,I wanted to resist you, push you away, but I was to intoxicated by your charms Imagining your naked flesh against me, send shutters down my spine, remembering the times my body quivered,high off your bodies sweet wine I wonder if you will even miss me, dare I think you would actually care-I hesitate to leave, but another day without you, is one too many to bear as the last ember slowly dies out, My stomach starts twisting knowing what I am leaving behind -but I must embark on this journey to the ends of the earth for the antidote I need to find Will I be changed?--Go back to the creature--the vampire I used to be--Would then it be easier to let you go, rip you from my memory Or will I forever be tortured, taunted by you love until my dying day? always knowing even if your love was sunlight, I gladly walk in--turn to ashes and blow away ==================================================== Posted by: Five by Five! - Apr 15, 2002, 8:42 AM 1 of 4 *Knock knock* Buffy (opens door): Who the hell are you? Gunn: I'm Gunn. I heard this was my show. Buffy: You don't spell pretty well, do you? It's Gone, not Gunn... Gunn: Hey, not being good at spelling is what's saved me from proofreading Angel's love letters to Cordelia. Buffy: Good point. But I still want you gone, Gunn. Gunn: You want me gone from Gone? Buffy: Yup. I want you gone from Gone, Gunn. Joss: Where did I leave my gun? Spike: Hello, girls. Buffy: Spike, what are you doing here, almost on fire? Spike: I've come looking for my lighter. I think I might've left it behind last time I was here. Buffy: I swear, if this is an excuse for you to sing "Light My Fire", you're blonde dust. Willow: Um, can I just make a pit stop and work a deafness spell on myself? Doris: Hmmm, what's that? Buffy: Um, it's not what you think. It's magic weed. Dawn: Get out, get out, GET OUT!!! Doris: I see what you mean... Willow: Well, uh, you know, I was working on a deafness spell... Doris: Again, I see what you mean. Hairdresser: Hmmm... What do you want me to do with it? Buffy: Just make me... different. Hairdresser: All right. *snip snip snip* Hmm hmm hmmm *snip snip* hmm hmm... Buffy: What's that you're humming? Hairdresser: Oh, just a song I've got stuck in my head... "She does really well with fiends from Hell but lately we can tell, that she's been going to the barber, losing all her hair... " Buffy: *WHACK* Andrew: Gimmee! Jonathan: No, it’s mine! Warren: *gulp* *ZAP* Buffy: Hey! The haircut isn’t THAT bad!!! Andrew: Well, it’s not the haircut. It’s the makeup… I mean, this show is still PG, y’know… Buffy: *WHACK* Buffy: Don’t strain yourself, Xander. I’m invisible girl. Xander: *feel feel* *FONDLE* Buffy: Um, Xander??? Xander: Oops, sorry! *teehee* Her clothes are invisible too… Buffy: You try that again, I’ll make your virility invisible. Anya: Hey! Willow: *glup* Xander: Willow, we have to talk... Willow: *glup* Well, we are talking... Xander: No. I'm talking, you're drinking bottle after bottle of water. Willow: *glup* You have a problem with that? Xander: No. Let's behave and get down to business. I bring bad news. Buffy's blinvisible. Believe me, if you fell off the bandwagon and blundered, I won't berate you. Willow: *glup* Did you just do that to see how many b's you could fit in a sentence? Xander: Bullocks! Spike: Hey, that's my line. Willow: And you think it's my fault *glup* she's blinvisible? *glup* The nerve! *glup* Harrumph! Xander: Hey, where are you going? Willow: To pee. Doris: It was the voice... It made my coffee dance! Boss: It did, did it... Doris: I'm not crazy! Boss: I'm not saying you are. I just want to know, was the coffee in the mug when it was dancing? And what dance was it doing? The salsa, the merengue or the Macarena? Doris: The Macarena??? What kind of wacko are you? Xander: *bang* OW! Willow: Oh, good *glup*, you found the fire hydrant! My bottle is *glup* empty! At his crypt, Spike receives a visit from an invisible Buffy who attacks him and rips at his clothes. Anya: Eewww. It's like putting your hand through pudding! Xander: Oh no... We have to warn Buffy! If this happens to her... Anya: She's pudding? Xander: Yeah. But the question is, where is she? Spike: I'll give you a hint. She's pudding, all right. She's forcibly pudding me to bed, she is. Spike: *grunt... grunt... grunt* Xander: Spike? What are you doing? Spike: Wha...? What does it look like I'm doing, you nit? I'm exercising! Xander: Ever thought of buying an ab-roller instead? Spike: I already have one. An ab-roll-her. *snicker* Buffy (whispers): Spike, once he's gone, you're ab-solutely dead. Dawn: Good... No one's home. I'll just sneak in as if I had something to hide. Buffy: Dawn! There you are... Dawn: Buffy??? Where are you? Buffy: Right here, behind the flying pizza! Dawn: Geez, we left it in the fridge that long? Dawn: I can't talk to you if you're invisible!!! Get out, get out, MMMPHHH! Buffy: Invisible duct tape. I like it! Now you can't talk, period. Meanwhile, at the coffee shop... Willow: *type, click click type type *glup* type click click* Oh good, I found it! *glup* Xander: What, the nerds' lair? Willow: No, the bathroom. Warren: We're your arch-nemesis...ses. Buffy: You? You three beady-eyed nerds are my arch-nemesis..ses? Warren: Well, just call me Warren Beady. Cop: Hey, what's going on here? I've got dozens of kids saying this place is haunted! They said they heard a fight, some voices and a weird sloshing sound... Willow: Oh, the sloshing sound is me. It's all that water I drank. Listen: *slosh slosh*. See? Hey, I can water-hula! Buffy: Willow, couldn’t you just blame the sloshing sound on the dancing coffee? Willow: I don’t know why everyone believes the show is getting darker… Buffy: Yeah, I can’t believe Andrew thought my makeup was trashy… It’s not trashy, is it? Faith: You finished with my Harlot lipstick, dominatrix-o-girl? Buffy: I realized that I didn't... that I don't... wanna die. Willow: So you just went with the haircut. Buffy: Huh?! Willow: Well, you just said you didn't want a dye... *snicker snicker* Buffy: Very funny. If I want a dye, I'll go see Spike. Spike: Well, um, it's been a while since I did one... Buffy: How come? Spike: I dyed... so many years ago... Buffy: *WHACK* Grrrr... arrgh. ---------------------------------------------------- Is everyone here very STONED? Posted by: SPIKESMYGOD - Apr 13, 2002, 12:43 PM While that geek of a chatter box on Politically Incorrect DID look a little like Spike, I can assure you guys 100% that there is NO CONNECTION! Spike has only gone by one other name......William- which he changed to Spike after 1880! ALSO......While that girl I saw on MTV Spring Break DID look like Buffy, there is NO WAY it could have been her. Do you guys REALLY think that Buffy would just let vampires roam around Sunnydale while she goes off for a beach vacation? Plus, I don't think she would have been able to take off that much time from the DoubleMeat Palace! As for the crazy "Faith is in a new movie called 'Soul Survivors'" rumors.....HELLOOOOOOOOO????????? 1) Faith doesn't act, and 2) SHE IS IN PRISON!!!! Unless she was able to swing some kind of work release program, there is NO WAY she is in a new movie! I wonder what you delusional freaks are going to say NEXT!......Let me guess...."Xander was on Hollywood Squares!" I'll try not to tell Spike about any of the rumors you guys have been spreading when he and the other scoobies come to take me back to Sunnydale with them! (As SPIKESMYGOD sits on the floor, playing with his bottom lip while listening to a Syd Barrett CD OVER...and ..OVER..and...OVER...and...OVER...and...OVER...and...OVER...and...OVER...... ===================================================== Letter authored by:Momkat. 20th Century Fox Productions ATTN: MUTANT ENEMY INC. Buffy the Vampire Slayer P.O. Box 900 Beverly Hills, Ca. 90213-0900 <insert date> Dear Mr. Whedon and Ms. Noxon: This letter is written in support of "Spuffy" the romantic relationship between Spike and Buffy. In interviews, we keep reading about how Spike is "evil" and that the relationship is a bad choice for Buffy. However, we would like to remind you of some of the good things Spike has done for the Slayer (we realize that this is sort of like Moses reminding God what was written on the stone tablets): Spike... 1. fought the bone sucking demons that Tara made invisible; 2. proved Tara was human (ok, via a sucker punch, but it worked!) 3. protected Dawn and Joyce from Glory in his crypt 4. was almost tortured to death by Glory to protect Dawn 5. fought the Knights of Byzantium to protect the Scoobies 6. patrolled Sunnydale and watched over Dawn while Buffy was dead!! (almost 148 days!) 7. saved Buffy from Sweet Daddy Hotfoot in OMWF 8. helped Buffy find Dawn when she was out with magic-drunk Willow 9. made Riley feel inadequate in the crypt scene in As You Were (ok, that was just fun!) 10. always had respect for Joyce, and mourned her death 11. tried to keep Buffy from turning herself into the police for the (false, of course) murder of Katrina, and endured a thrashing from Buffy to rival Glory's 12. when under amnesia in Tabular Rasa, he had no impulse to kill and eat people; rather, he assumed the persona of a "noble vampire...a vampire with a soul" Ok, we agree that's pretty lame, but his every impulse was to be good, not evil! 13. he has become a "demon outcast" because he kills his own kind... 14. rocked her world!! (You know what we mean, heh, heh, heh) 15. offered to get her money so she wouldn't have to (eeeuuuu) work at Doublemeat Palace We respectfully request/wish/fantasize/daydream/obsess that Spuffy be allowed to have a chance, that Spike loses that chip and chooses to be good, redeemed by love. And isn't that a positive message to send out to your viewers, that love can redeem us, make us better than we are? If there is no hope for redemption, then taxpayers could save a lot of money in stopping prison rehabilitation programs...but we believe that by his actions, Spike has proven his (literally) undying love for Buffy. He has the stamina and strength to fight by her side (at least at night) and protect those who are near and dear to her. He does this not because he has a soul (and how much evil is committed by people with souls...much too much) but because he adores the Chosen One with every non-functioning cell in his body. Please consider a path of redemption for Spike...so many times he has helped Buffy and the Scoobies at great risk to himself...and he loves her so much... Sincerely, < your name goes here > <your address goes here> ------------------------------------------------------ Author: tucker Subject: Spike is a a lilly white saint-like Jesus, and people need to stop treating him like an evil thing Date Posted: 04/08/02 Mon-06:52:35 So I'm watching Normal Again today, cuz I'm a little behind. you know, just really had no desire to see it- never been huge on the whole reality altering storylines. But I'm watching it, and I'm finding myself irritated because for some reason, either real or imagined, it feels as if they've taken the bit about Buffy using Spike and turned it into his fault that she used him, his fault that she hurt him, and so on. I wathed the way he gets brushed off by Xander, and hey, alright, go for it, but I remembered that really Buffy is the only one who has seen, or knows about any of the bad things Spike has done this season. As far as everyone else knows he's been remarkably distant, still helped occasionally and to their knowledge has quit with the stalking, so I'm not getting where the animosity is coming from. Then I'm thinking about how Buffy breaks up with Spike, hurts him, hurts herself in the process, he's pushed away and expected to deal with it. Xander shatters Anya, everyone knows it's his fault(regardless of his reaasons- which I think are pretty good- he simply should have figured it out before the whole wedding bit) she's destroyed, far beyond any pain Spike caused buffy by letting her use him, and what does he get? Hugs and support. At this point I'm thinking a little unfair. But then I got to thinking about the strange double standards they have going, like the way they think of Anya as opposed to Spike. Also I was thinking about Angel. Now, don't get me wrong, I like Angel. He and Spike are my two favorite characters, but I do think it's funny that Angel has the get out of jail free soul card for anything bad he's done, which is fine, I get it, angel-angelus-two different people, he feels bad, blah, blah, blah. But still, a guy walks down the street with his wife, sees a young lady in a tight halter top and ogles her chest. Now, he would never run over and grab her boobs, lay her flat and shag her there on the street, but he's thinking about it. And the fact that he's thinking about it hurts his wife's feelings. The whole thought that counts thing. All the things Angelus did to the scoobies? They were thoughts that went through Angel's head, but his soul tossed them out, just like the husband tossed out the idea of street shagging. But the thoughts were still there. You'd think there'd be a lot of residual weirdness. But with the exception of Giles and Xander, no not really. Again, ok. But he doesn't exactly make up for it. Spike doesn't feel bad for what he's done, but he has done good deeds that I would think would balance the scales a little. Not so much that he and the scoobies would be best buds, or anything, but at least they could be a little nicer to him. Which led me to wonder exactly why in the flaming hell they aren't still paying him? I mean if Buffy's going to make him feel like a whore, the least she could do is pay him like one. And if the others are going to go asking for his help, or information, or where's Buffy, but then turn around and tell him to piss off every other time they see him, then I say they should pay for his help. Especially, and this is the part that really cheeses me, when they tell him to get lost in front of his own home. I mean think about it: normal again, scene in cemetery: We see Spike walking with a grocery bag that is full, so he is walking toward his crypt. He comes up behind Buffy, who is walking in the same direction, so it's reasonable for him to assume she might be looking for him- if not to use for sex, then to use for something else- it's what she does where he's concerned. They talk, Xander and Willow come up in the same direction Spike and Buffy had been going. So everyone is essentially headed toward Spike's crypt, but they've got this kind of "Spike what the hell are you doing here? Go away," thing going on. It's his damn front yard! They should be paying him. Or he needs a soul. That would fix it, so It got me wondering. If, for some reason, Spike hadn't regained his memory after Tabula Rasa, and his personality was there, but he couldn't remember making attempts on their lives, or all the people he killed, but everyone else could- would the animosity the scoobies throw his way be wrong? --------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- Anyone here in a relationship? Posted by: Gremo - Apr 04, 2002, 9:02 PM If you are married or in a sexual relationship, you understand how rape can not really be rape. Maybe you are tired, your husband approaches you with that look in his eye; you say no, I have a headache, etc.; he ignores you and proceeds with his intent to have sex.....kissing, touching. He doesn't want to hurt you. He just wants sex now. You struggle at first, say no again, but he goes ahead with the act and you are an unvilling partner. Is that rape? Maybe. I think that is what Spike may have in mind. Getting Buffy in the mood in spite of her protests. Of course, I have to see the scene first. Remember, foreplay for them included rough action; so he would have no intentions of hurting Buffy, just persuading her. Also, who jumped on who in "Smashed"? Guess he could have called it rape....she certainly "forced" herself on him after the unzipping. ------------------------------------------------------ Old school here Posted by: Fogey - Apr 04, 2002, 9:13 PM 13 of 14 I think either partner always retains the right to say no. Re Wrecked Yeah Buffy jumped on Spike but that is what he went after her seeking, and he did not try to lift her off after she hooked up. Angel and Buffy on her 17th birthday was statutory rape. Oh and when Willow did a memory spell on Tara so she could have ‘snuggles’, that looked just like a drug date rape situation to me. ------------------------------------------------------ This probably isn't very PC but, Posted by: Navarro - Apr 04, 2002, 9:42 PM 7 of 14 How can Spike understand when Buffy really means "NO" when she constantly sends mixed signals. At the end of Smashed she is berating him when she all of a sudden jumps on him. Totally out of left field. Then in Wrecked when he is puruing her (the morning after) Spike:"Thought we could---" Buffy:"Not gonna happen. Last night was the end of this freak show" Spike pulls her down into his lap and she submits again. BUFFY: "Stop!" SPIKE: "Make me." BUFFY: "No! No!" and then they kiss again BUFFY: "No, no, I-I have to-" SPIKE: "Stay. I'm stuck here. Sun's up". Buffy looks at Spike & resumes kissing him. Talk about mixed signals-I'd say that when the girl says "NO" she doesn't actually mean it & I could understand how a guy could get confused! ---------------------------------------------------- Do your friends often find you sullen and withdrawn? Does your family continually make references to your attitude and alertness? Have you found yourself losing sleep and becoming agitated and restless? Is your performance at work suffering? If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you may have a serious but easily treatable health problem. Do you fight off your family on Tuesday nights for the TV set, even taking your two-year old relative away from their cartoons to monopolize the TV for one hour? Do you find yourself taping FX or Space to catch up on anything you've previously missed? Have you ever suffered from severe eye strain from staring at a computer image for too long? If you've answered "yes" to any of these questions, you REALLY have a problem. You could be one among millions of people around the world who have this problem. Need to talk? Need support? Want to find people who suffer from the same problem? Do you think you need to seek treatment? Would you like the advice of some highly trained professionals? Spikeaholism is quickly becoming the leading disease affecting both males and females anywhere from birth to undeath. Coping with the addiction alone can be detrimental to your health and mental well-being. If left untreated, you may begin to use common Sunnydale slang and, in some extreme cases, begin to display symptoms of extremely aggressive behavior, practicing night maneuvers, issuing orders, attempting to capture HST's, and pretending to be something you're not and something you know deep down that you can never ever be. The delusion may spread so far as to produce mass hallucinations into believing you are a superior human specimen. If you believe that you are almost to this point or know of someone who is, seek out help at the Spikeaholics Not So Anonymous, where we care about our patients well-being. Our staff of caring professionals are well-versed in the treatment of this affliction. Before hiring anyone, we conduct rigorous tests to confirm that all potential employees also suffer from Spikeaholism to ensure that each patient receives a well-rounded treatment from an individual who knows firsthand the ins and outs of this particular disease. Unsure if you're addicted? Don't think you fit the basic statistics? Why not come in for some free testing at http://www.angelfire.com/extreme3/spikeaholics/? Feel free to take a look around at what we have to offer our patients in the way of treatment and addiction management. We have a number of vices to feed your addiction. Everything is free for everyone, as is the well-founded support group to help you in coping with the life-debilitating effects of this disease. Understand that you are NOT alone. Visit us immediately at http://www.angelfire.com/extreme3/spikeaholics/ and begin living your life with purpose once again. Drs. Joan Luv, Directors-in-Chief of medical operations at the Spikeaholics Not So Anonymous Clinic AKA Trixx and Naked Push-Up Spike *We're not only founders, we're also members* Stand up and say it loud--I'm a Spikeaholic and I don't want the CURE! ---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- Answer to the question. Can vampires love? of course they can Posted by: allflamey - Mar 31, 2002, 6:22 PM 22 of 28 Vampire are nothing but creatures of Emotion. Rage,Fear,Hate,Hunger but also love,caring and laughter. However.. those emotions are focused the same way ours are. A vampire can feel true love for his sire or his get. Lots make partners and truly care about those. They hate better and stronger than anybody and they act more out of emotional need than reason or rational. of course they are Evil but even the fact of being evil is an emotional choice..they WANT to be evil because they like it. A soul in the Buffyverse is a truly complex thing.. But not needed for the possesion of true emotions..more like an awareness of Right and Wrong. as Dru says.. of course we can love..just no very wisely. --------------------------------------------------- What do you think will/should happen? Posted by: kraut - Mar 30, 2002, 6:12 PM Ok, here`s one of mine Buffy/X-files. Scully and Mulder come to Sunnydale to investigate strange occurences...... A very big amount of people have been found killed by "unusual" cicumstances.The duo investigates and meets.....a mysterious girl working for a burger store, who somehow seems involved with it all. But as the two stay on,the mystery of the girl increases.Missing school records and birth certificates of her cleptomanic,semi-orphan, kid sister. Strange friends, half of whom share the house with her. One only visiting at night, wearing black leather,(though that seemes suspicious only to Scully). A redhead who doesn`t seem to be hanging out with guys too much, and visits the social center at regular intervalls, only to meet up with an unlisted self-help group. The carpenter dude, whose hospital record makes the two agents wonder, how his parents could ever have paid for the wedding. A girl, somehow linked to him, who, well, simply behaves strange. And another girl with the no-guy factor, who is somehow connected to the redhead, the kid-sister, and the blonde, and probably deals with drugs, since she is also constantly carrying something around, which she calls "herbs".Furthermore her hair color is prone to constant changes, which indicates a desire not to be easily recognized.Her often hippie clothing suggest a strong self-use of these self-same drugs... What`s going on in Sunnydale? And who is the mysterious, partially unemployed blonde? Will Scully and Mulder ever discover the truth....? --------------------------------------------------- the marti noxon interview Posted by: littlefluffybunny - Mar 29, 2002, 3:20 PM ok now i'm annoyed, anyone really not happy woth those comments? sorry but i'm inthe mood for a good rant,here goes, she said "Can you really see Spike and Buffy in a condo deciding what they should watch on TV that night?" er yes i could actually, what they are incapable of having a conversation?, so that wasn't a conversation they were having in hell's bells or normal again or flooded or lifeserial or i could go on, they didn't sit on buffy's porch while buffy told spike what was wrong with her mum in FFL while he comforted her, something she couldn't do with her actual boyfriend.(she told him cause in the next episode he tells riley) "We need to get in there and show people the difference between loving someone who is good to be around and loving someone who is good" what? now i really don't get this statement at all can someone clear it up for me. is she saying spike is someone whose good to be around and if she is what is that some sort of bad thing, or is she still hung up that spike is in no way good cause i just don't buy it. "Some of the fans want Buffy and Spike together. Does that surprise you?" "Sometimes, things don't go the way we intend. It seemed very obvious to us that the Buffy-Spike relationship couldn't work in the long run, so now we need to reiterate why." this is just after she has stated that fan reaction has no effect on story lines. i really don't buy this one they knew exactly what they were doing, you don't give us all the sweet moments of them together ( i've tried to list them but theres to many) by accident, this is buffy nothing happens by accident, the only words that seem to have been said to put us off wanting buffy and spike together have come out of the writters mouth. I think people have forgotten the Spike of two seasons ago. I mean, he tried to kill Willow!" yeah we also havn't forgotton him trying to save dawn on top of the tower and him being prepared to loose his life to glory to protect dawn and buffy's happines, and him sticking to his promise to protect dawn when there was nothing in it for him, yes we remember spike season 2 and 4 we also remember spike season 5 and 6 and we have also watched how much he has changed so what is she saying all of that was for nothing cause he hasn't changed at all, no not buying that. the only explanation i can come up for the interview which seems to be telling us the result of the buffy spike story five episodes before the end of the season is that there trying to get us off the scent which wouldn't be the first time, or more worryingly all us spufy fans are weird freaks who support a relationship which is wrong? i know which one i'ld rather it be. anyone got any comments to chear me up. ------------------------------------- I am not buying this shipper bashing nonsense and neither should you guys... Posted by: sugamama02 - Mar 29, 2002, 2:07 AM Joss and company know exactly what they are doing, and I don’t believe for a minute that they are upset by the fan reaction to Buffy’s romantic relationships. I believe when “ME” has wanted the fans to like or root for a couple on BTVS they have written the stories a certain way, and when they didn’t want the fans to connect or root for a couple or character they wrote things differently. I agree believe the writers want the fans to focus more on Buffy’s journey and not so much on her romantic relationships. That is the point I believe Marti was trying to get across, I really don’t think she was trying to imply that Buffy could not be independent or strong if she was romantically involved with someone. I just think the writers want all of the characters on the show, especially Buffy to have a strong sense of self, before they consider committing themselves to another person. I find Marti's comments regarding B/A shippers and B/S shippers amusing, because the writers are the ones responsible for making the fans feel the way they do. I don't believe for a second that Marti is dismayed by the fans reaction to the B/S relationship. They orchestrated it! Just as I believe they orchestrated the fans reaction to B/A and B/R etc...etc...etc... I don't believe that Riley was ever meant to be Buffy's long haul guy, or that the fans were meant to connect with him. The bottom line of what I am trying to express in this post is that I think the writers are conscious of what they are doing and they want the fans to react exactly as they have. For Marti or any of the other writers to suggest that they are bewildered and befuddled by fans reactions to particular characters and storylines is simply disingenuous if you ask me.
