ancient world old post
[quote]personal responcibility and morality is taking a back-seat to the feel-good-so-lets-do-it mentality that's become pervasive into todays younger demographics by the media and corperations. [/quote]

Yes for now it is irresponsible, but sexuality is not immoral, that's jus a social construct aided by imbued instincts in our minds. Once pregnancy and stds fall under our control, this will no longer be irresponsible either. Using gm, we can remove our instinctual inhibitions, or increase them, depending on what we desire. Our increased intellectual capacity and control over our memories will destroy social/cultural prejudices and misconceptions, that may blind us.

Once we're able to implant memories and enhance intellect, I don't see reasons for all these embarrassments and irrational worries that surround sexuality. Then casual sexuality will be something optional for individuals, and comunities akin to nudist ones will exist for liberal sexuality. Also even individuals with less than a month of age, provided they were born with a suitably grown body, and had the memories, experience and enhanced intelligent, could practice it at will.

[quote]Hmm... last time I checked a "fetus" can do both, does do both and nobody is arguing this. The distinction between "living" and "nonliving" only comes into play with entities like Virus's which are evolved chemical constructs, yet they can't self-replicate.

Evolutionary biology will further make the distinction between [early] self-replicators such as nucleotides and multicellular forms of "true" life - but the fetus passes both with flying colors.

It is beyond dispute that you're killing a life when fertilization generally occurs within 10-15 minutes of intercourse. Fertilization, as anyone in the field will tell you, is when the two entities that are incapable of sustaining life singularly are fused whereby creating the necessary enviroment for self-replication by way of mediated thermodynamic activilty. By the morning after, it's been shown that you're killing this life by way segmenting itself from the endometrium, or, simply, starving it.[/quote]

Yes, but life is advanced machinery. A living organism is but a machine, the fact that its alive is meaningless with regards to ethics, only conscious processes and the ability to hold them is meaningful. Even if you disagree, you must agree that new members of society should be received with apt environments and genetics. In addition, specially if you value the fertilized egg, you must agree that construction of the underlying machina of a human must be done only when it's almost certain to be succcesful. We can avoid the usual loss of embryos that occurs naturally do to failure to implant, and later on spontaneous abortions, if we control reproduction and use the best tech available always. People would get pregnant while being fit, and the best nutrition, gm, and implantation technics or artificial wombs used, it'd come to a point were we'd diminish natural losses to virtually nothing. Inaction is as bad as murder, when it comes to helping a living human, if you believe that this applies to embryos than you to must accept reproduction control.

[quote]And you can respond in anyway you like, but I know the divorce rate and the teenage pregancy rates and I see where society is going. Perhaps you call it a fluke, but I happen to be of the opinion that there are macro-scale dyanmics at work in the system. But, at the end of the day, aslong as it's not my kidsdown the road....
[/quote]

Yes, the global obesity, std, debt epidemics, in addition to the environmental problems, have become the NEW FILTER OF NATURAL SELECTION. Even medicine can't stop it, contaminants are raising cancer/sterility rates in those less fit, the fittest are having more success passing on their genes, those able to withstand the most contaminants(better cellular, dna repair mechanisms). This is kinda sad, but it's best for the species, we're about to go a transition, a very important one, and the existence of this filter has contributed to things like the flynn effect, and the continuing increase in lifespan that's been seen(organisms breed for longevity, show added resistance and physical and mental resilience.

[quote]I think you'll find that is more extreme cases that 12 and 13 year olds are having sex. Personally I started having sex when I was 16, but hey, that's just me.[/quote]

:lol: LOL!!!BS, common even amongst 10 year olds, I mean I still remember way back. Sex 24-7 talks(since around 4-5th grade) in the cafeteria, in the hallways, and everywhere, after a few years I learned to go to the library, and to fast, during that time way back. I blame those hormone-fed meats, excess food consumption, and increased melatonin(tv) which gave way to this.

[quote]Choosing a civilized way of life that's conductive to putting personal responcibility, the good of others and self-sacrifice over selfish desires and hormones... the horror!! [/quote]

Akin to the olympians, we will be, that is we will be unbound. Of course our vastly increased capacity and gm will free us from social biases, instictual inhibitions. We will do as we please, as long as we do not injure or destroy others.

[quote]And it is feasible beyond theory, it just takes restraint and a strong congnizant ability to rationalize what path is best suited toward where you want to go in life and recognizing/accepting the sacrifices that need to happen. I suppose this is what seperates those who suceed from those who don't. Some people just can't control the more ancient, primative, legacy aspects to the biological form you have that once served you well, but are now a hindrence to sucess in contemporary times. And people claim Darwinian Evolution is dead....[/quote]

For now, I agree. It'd be irresponsible. But there will come a time, decades perhaps centuries if some disaster occurs, when vr ai constructs will give our teenage descendants a world of pleasure, whenever they seek to relieve themselves. Just like we now have ubiquitous porn, something our ancestors lacked, they will have ubiquitous sex through the use of neural interfaces. Physical and biological nature will be no longer a factor in selecting mates. For they'll be able to create a construct of whomever they please, future human relationships will no longer be based on sexual pleasure or physical attraction, sex of the individual, but solely on mutual attraction of human minds, personality and shared interests.

[quote]So ignorant. So, the mother's womb is hers -- but what about the human inside of her domain that is distinctly and absolutely provable to not be part of her organism?
[/quote]

Even without abortion she can do MASSIVE DAMAGE. A womans exposure to toxin, and nutrition can affect the health and intelligence of the individual throughout his life. It is then that we see... Does an individual have a right to gain such power, such influence, such strength over the life of another individual? Or should an individual receive rights and protection from unfit environments and genes from the very beginning? Shouldn't it be society to enforces this rights, to guarantee this rights? Or should it be up to the individual to enforce this rights? The answer is clear, an individual's right cannot fall on the hands of a few. For he will be a member of society, for he will affect the lives of others, for his very life is at stake.

And as always, let's not bring the "it's natural card". natural=/ good. Cancer, disease, aging, and a bunch of BS is natural

[quote]I agree, its not realistic to rely on abstinance, but I think its valuable to teach soon-to-be-of-sexual-age kids that abstinance is OK, it is safe, and that the pill, and condoms aren't completely safe.
[/quote]

Religion and cultural taboos are no longer influential. People simply don't care what happens to them, they think it can't happen to them, or if it does they don't care. They blind themselves to the dangers of smoking, alcoholism, drug abuse, obesity, stds, street fights, speeding, and the like. Thanks to that, and the fact it affects more men, after the age of 25 females begin outnumbering males as members of a particular age group, factor in high-school/college drop outs-again men lead here, IIRC- and viable male partners are far less then females(good for most of us guys!!! If everyone married, we followed religious doctrines, and homosexual marriage was prohibited most gals would have to remain celibate!!! Jus shows the irrationality, and illogic of those measures, many religions are in effect opposing logic, the VERY WILL OF THE DIVINE.),

[quote]
But seriously... last time I checked, our young didn't have "US Steel Made in Pittsburgh" stamped on their foreheads. Morals is not the issue here... realities in human nature is. This argument has been around since way before recorded history.[/quote]

Correct. The instincts for seeking sexual pleasure are not the problem. They can be diminished if need be, jealousy and the ridiculous and irrational importance and moral value given to a mere sexual act, are indeed the problem, they're inhibiting our higher rational thoughts. Holding hands, playing games, and the like has no such ridiculous importance, sexuality should not either. It's a mere act of physical contact that yields pleasure, nothing less and nothing more.

The irrational importance, that's so strong that it yields traumas, taboos, and social/cultural prejudices into the minds of many is the REAL problem. It is blinding the masses, and binding our reason and logical processes, it must be removed. WE should use advance functional genomic knowledge combined with advance gm techniques to remove it from its very root.

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