TimBug107
Posted: 2002-06-24 08:27
(Pitino)
bigfoot_cryptozoology
Posted: 2002-06-24 11:49
Pitino deserves a lot of blame, but no one should forget that Wallace and Papile were
Pitino's GM and chief talent evaluator. They
deserve criticism too.
Collinto
Posted: 2002-06-24 20:32
When I read this article in the Globe I was a little baffled by the logic, Peter May was obviously in a 'bashing' mood.
First, hindsite is always 20/20, however, at the time the C's made the choice to grab the Denver pick the draft class was very highly regarded...and Wallace had his eye on Gasol (which in hindsite!, was the right player to target in the 2001 draft). At the time, it was thought that Gasol could be had at 10...if it wasn't for terific workouts as the draft neared and a great job by his agent to raise his stock with the contract buyout ploy, Gasol may have been had with lower lottery picks. Even as the draft neared, Wallave apparently tried to trade up to snag Gasol but Mephis came on too strong. Add that to trading Johnson for Rodgers and Delk...and I say it didn't work out so bad.
Second, is the line: "There was no need to do so, not when it was clear Denver was not going to be very good soon." This is what we call a straw arguement...in and of itself it is a true statement, however, the suggestion that it proves his arguement is bogus. No one knew that Dice would be out for the season...and if he played, where would the Denver pick be this season? My guess is the end of the lottery...so was it so crazy to take it last year, in a strong draft?
Finally but not least, May says we should have taken a true PG instead of Forte, which I happen to agree with. However, then he says that signing Cook was 'mind-boggling'??? He was the third PG taken in last years draft, a meager 4 spots below Tinsley...wouldn't that be a steal? Now they basically had their cake (well reportedly Red's cake) in Forte and ate it too with a 'true PG' in Cook...how can you bash Wallace for bringing in two young guards for the price of one? He must have been in a bad mood...
Anyone else find his logic a little off?
RICelts
Posted: 2002-06-25 08:30
Collinto is correct in his second guessing of May's second guessing.....
It would be interesting to see May's comments at the time celts considered exercising the rights to Denver's Pick... most knew it was another chip to possibly move up for Gasol and no one could possible foresee McD's injuries...
Secondly, it is far to early to say Forte, Johnson or Brown were good or bad picks... give it a couple years (although Tinsley has made it look like apoor choice to pass on him so far).
It would be truely wonderful if some website managed to maintain all the talent evaluations and mock picks by the Mays and Veseys of the world and see if they are any better than any team draft committes (althogh I will guarantee that Pitino would have the lowest success rates) four or five years down the road. Think about, do you ever see ESPN, SI or other big outlets touting the success rates of their past mock drafts......
theman
Posted: 2002-06-25 23:17
I think it is obvious that Peter May read my thread created june 13 (celtic "Brain Trust").
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=60193&forum=8&7
Clearly he has stolen my intellectual property and I should sue.
I have not done a thorough comparison but looking at past mock drafts or the grades that were handed out immediately following the draft to how players really preformed it appears the sports writers do no better than the GM. Part of the problem becomes how do you grade a pick, all-star appearances, stats, need, minutes, salary?
I remember after the Mavericks traded Tractor Traylor for Nowitski and traded a pick (which became shawn marion)for Nash people thought Don "the Mad Scientist" Nelson had in fact gone mad.
But isn't second guessing and presupposing what these boards are all about?
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