2 Corinthians 12:4
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Last night this scripture Luke 23:43 popped out at me and made me stop and ask Father about it. And I saw something I hadnt thought about before. Thus the title "Thought Provokers"! PARADISE. That was where Jesus said he went, that the thief on the cross would be there too. That got me to asking Father, "What are you showing me?" We were taught Jesus went and preached to "MEN" in prision That they were those looking towards the cross. But here He tells us men go to Paradise. What about the unbelievers, was this their chance to recieve Him or was it to late for them? Do you think they had a chance to choose Him then or what? I dont think so. In fact I dont think now, it was men there at all! Because I've found that there is a differance between (Souls - MEN) and (Spirits - ANGELS)!
A correct understanding of this passage may be obtained by noting the following facts:
1. Men are never spoken of in Scripture as "spirits". Man has
a spirit, but he is not "a spirit", for a spirit hath not flesh and bones".
In this life man has "flesh and blood", a "natural" (or psychical) body.
At death this spirit "returns to God Who gave it" (Ps. 31:5. Eccles.
12:7. Luke 23:46. Acts 7:59). In resurrection "God giveth
it a body as it hath pleased Him" (1Cor. 15:38). This is no longer
a "natural" (or psychical) body, but a "spiritual body" (1Cor. 15:44).
a. They "left their own habitation".
b. This "habitation" is called (in Greek) oiketerion, which occurs again only in 2Cor. 5:2, where it is called our "house" (i.e. body) with which we earnestly long to be "clothed upon"; referring to the "change" which shall take place in resurrection. This is the spiritual resurrection body of 1Cor. 15:44.
c. This spiritual body (or
oiketerion) is what the angels "left" (whatever that may mean, and
this we do not know). The word rendered "left", here, is peculiar. It is
apoleipo = to leave behind, as in 2Tim.
4:13, 20, where Paul uses it of "the cloke" and the "parchments" which
he left behind at Troas, and of
Trophimus whom he left behind at Miletum. Occ. Heb. 4:6,
9; 10:26. Jude 6.
d. They "kept not their first estate (arche)" in which they were placed when they were created.
e. The nature of their sin
is clearly stated. The sin of "Sodom and Gomorrha" is declared to be "in
like manner" to that of the angels; and what that sin was is described
as "giving themselves over to
fornication, and going after strange flesh" (Jude 6, 7). The
word "strange" here denotes other, i.e. different (Gr. heteros
=
different in kind. See Ap. 124. 2) What this could be, and
how it could be, we are not told. We are not asked to understand
it, but to believe it. (see further in App. 23 and 25).
It was "better" THEREFORE to suffer for well doing than for evil doing. He had suffered for well doing. He suffered, but He had a glorious triumph. "Therefore" (runs the exhortation), "if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye" (vs. 14), and it concludes "Forasmuch then as Christ suffered on our behalf as to the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind; for He that hath suffered in the flesh hath done with sin; no longer to live [our] remaining time according to men's lusts, but for God's will... For to this end, to those also who are now dead, were the glad tidings announced, that though (Gr. men) they might be judged according [to the will of] (*2) men, in [the] flesh, yet (Gr. de) they might live [again] according to [the will of] God, in [the] spirit" : i.e. in resurrection (1Pet. 4:1, 2, 6).
The above is suggested as the interpretation of the expression "the
in-prison spirits", in the light of the whole of the nearer and remoter
contexts.
(*2) For the supply of this ellipsis see Rom 8:27, 28, and cp. 1Pet 4:19.
1 Peter 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; These were the spirits that disobeyed. Which sometime were disobedient; The same ones that followed satan in the first earth age! It speaks of men as Soulsin the 20th verse.{I had been taught these were men) And thought that way too, up intill latly! See here in 1 peter 3:20 men are called souls. but in verse 19 He preaches to spirits.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto "THE SPIRITS IN PRISON"
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
So was Jesus in Hell? Preaching to Men? NO, could'nt be. In reference to hell. I find this. Hell means grave.(Hades) And we find that Hell is tossed into the (Lake of fire). So The Lake of Fire is differant than hell, Hell being the grave. Then what is the lake of fire? It is the second death!
I think this death is total destruction. And this is why. "God is a consuming fire. But He is also our haven"! He is the christians place of safty!
SO what happened to the wicked MEN in His presents? I think they are consumed. Utterly destroyed. Father is that comsuming fire, nothing evil can enter into His Presence, it would be comsumed because He is a consuming fire! And Father is not limited to time as we mortals are. He is out side of our time. He sees the begining and the end of time! So Time doesnt limit Him. He is Eternal. Time has a start And a end!
Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
"That there should be time no longer:" That gives me reason to think there are things that have happen in eternity after man leave earth! Because to leave earth means you enter eternity! Things like the Great White Throne Judgements perhaps? Just a thought and speculation.
So a man entering into his eterinty if he was saved, he would not be consumed. But a wicked man would be, For he would be utterly destroyed! Eternally gone. Because Father isnt Hell, or the Grave, He is the Comsuming Eternal Fire that burns. Perhaps He is the Lake of fire that burns forever.
And Hell, The grave, wholes nothing but the decaying body, that is forever left behind! And in Father's time He will consume death, hell, and the grave, along with the false prophet and satan, Gone forever and ever and ever!
So Yahshua Wasnt in hell preaching to men. Because we know now hell is the grave. He Preached to spirits in prison. So this prison had to be some where other than the grave. Somethink it to be the center of the earth. But at least for now we know it wasnt hell. He who seeks will find, and God doesnt mind revealing and confirming the truth to a seeker. It Certainly is thought provoking! Enought to provoke us to study some more!
Here are some scriptures. Lets look throught them.
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
G3040 ... 3040. limhn limen lee-mane’; apparently a primary word;
a harbor:—haven. Compare 2568. ...
G3041 ... 3041. limnh limne lim’-nay; probably from 3040
(through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):—
lake
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger
in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I'm thinking the story of Lazaus is an allagory rather than litral.
Because it is a Parable.
THE PARABLE OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
G86 ... 86. adhv hades hah’-dace; from 1 (as negative particle)
and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e.
"Hades" or the place
(state) of departed souls:— grave, hell. ...
Revelation 20:14 And <2532> death <2288> and <2532> hell
<86> were cast <906> (5681) into <1519>
the lake <3041> of
fire <4442>.
This <3778> is <2076> (5748) the second <1208> death <2288>.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
I believe Father's word. If He said there is a famine for the world in the last days then it is true. There is a Famine! I want to know the Truth. I want the Holy Spirit to teaches us. I believe He will confirm to each of us so we will know, and understand it is Him teaching us. I dont choose what will pop in, He does.. Fathers Spirit is our teacher.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
[ Discispling I havnt heard that taught very much. I can remember my Bapist Pastor trying to explain to me why ( Mark 16: 17 & 18......Signs following ) wasnt for today! I didnt believe him! Later He left his wife, and ran off with his secratary! He didnt disciple me!
(I had been Saved at Home and filled with the Holy Spirit. And this had been my first church experence!)
I guess The pastor wasnt a believer. Perhapes He's repented? I hope so! Plainly He needed someone to disciple him! We all do. True believers will be discipling other christians!
The minute I was Saved, Washed, and Clean, I wanted to obey! and share what I was learning with some body! I'm not called as a teacher but I like to share my finding with others!
There had been a heart change! The first thing I was ask to do was be baptisted. I thought, " Jesus is my exzample." So I should be baptisted too! I noticed this is where some start to balk! with the first thing God asks of a believer! It is usually with those who "Quote" Have ask Jesus into there heart, But there has been no real repentance. Those who have responded to an alter call in a moment of emotional soul stirring. But there is no new birth. No heart change. No Spirit..
Today people are following the signs rather than the, Signs following them. Mostly because they havnt been disciples. They've just been preached at! Yahshua disciple a small group twelve men. That should give us a clue.
I think Father knows who will believe and who wont. I hear pastors saying differantly, But I dont believe it. Because they cant back it up in the word. That is why we need to follow Him. Believers are overcomers, They may sin at times and miss it, but they repent! And they need to be discipled! Praise Father Yahweh, The we have the Holy Spirit to teach us.
I think a tare will always be a tare. Because they have always followed thier father the deivl. And I think I have the Spirit on that. God is Love and Mercy and Grace. Not willing any should perish, but Knowing tares wont repent. But a believer will.. Jesus told us who the tares were.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;.
He met that literally. The tare are satan's sons. They are tares, (Darnel) We are wheat. There two totally differant things. Wheat gone bad is wheat gone bad, but that still doesnt make wheat a tare! But I have a page on that subject! of what really happened in the Garden of Eden.
In the Millinium, The Bride will continue to teach us, [discisple], teaching discipling other believers; and then satan will be loosed to test them one more time. And then the end. And the wicked will be no more forever.
And Tares will never see the truth because they are satans children. They have followed satan from the begining of his fall. Even as we have followed our Father from the beginning. I think we have been called to bring the good news the ones who will believe, and disciple them, and Father God will draw them. And He knows where they are, and will lead us to them. Or us to them. I will share with them my part, and they will share with me their part!
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
John 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
I was very concerned once knowing some wouldnt understand what Jesus gave me to share. He said to me," Those who have ears to hear will hear." I hope this has provoked you to new thoughts and to seek Him.
Love
Sunny
Here is the scripture on tares
The Tares
Matt 13
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.