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Que pensaban los Padres Fundadores que habian visto por ellos mismos las miserias de los gobiernos cristianos y que habian venido al nuevo mundo para desligarse de ese despotismo fisico, espiritual y mental de una vez por todas??

Que Pensaban los Padres Fundadores de Estados Unidos Sobre el Cristianismo

Benjamin Franklin

Padre Fundador de los Estados Unidos

En referencia a los critianos y el cristianismo dijo:
"Los faros con mas utiles que las iglesias."
"He encontrado que el dogma cristiano es incomprensible. A temprana edad me ausente del cristianismo."
"En los asuntos de este mundo los hombres no son salvados por la fe sino por falta de ella."
"Cuando una religion es buena se puede mantener a si misma. Pero cuando no se puede mantener a si misma, y a Dios no le importa mantenerla, y sus lideres le sacan dinero al estado para mantenerse, esto es "senal" que es una religion mala.

Thomas Jefferson

Padre Fundador de Estados Unidos y Presidente

"El cristianismo no es ni nunca fue parte de la ley comun"

"Yo contemplo con soberana reverencia el acto de todo el pueblo Americano quien declaro que su legislatura no 'haria ninguna ley en lo que respecta al establecimiento de una religion oficial, o a la restriccion de la libertad de culto', de esta forma se construyo una pared entre la iglesia y el estado."

"Los poderes legitimos del estado se extienden solamente hacia aquellos actos que son perjudiciales para otros. Pero no me hace ningun dano el hecho que mi vecino diga que hay veinte dioses, o ningun dios. Ni me toca el bolsillo ni me rompe una pierna."

"No encuentro en el cristianismo ni una cosa buena."

"Descubrimos en los evangelios los cimientos de la ignorancia vulgar, de cosas imposibles, de supersticiones, fanatismo y frabricaciones."

"Y llegara el dia cuando el mistico engendro de Jesus, por el Ser Supremo como su padre, en el vientre de una virgen sera clasificado como una fabula similar a la del engendro de Minerva en el cerebro de Jupiter."

"El cristianismo es el sistema mas perverso que haya alumbrado al hombre."

"El dios cristiano puede ser visto casi como muchos de los dioses antiguos de civilizaciones pasadas. El dios cristiano es un mounstruo de tres cabezas, cruel, vengativo y caprichoso. Si uno quiere saber mas sobre su maldad, la bestia/dios de tres cabezas, uno solamente tiene que ver el calibre de aquellos de quienes lo sirven. Siempre son de dos clases: imbesiles o hipocritas."

"Todos las personas tendran completa libertad de opinar sobre cosas religiosas, ni tampoco ninguno sera obligado a frecuentar o mantener a ninguna institucion religiosa."

".....la diferencia de opinion es positiva en la religion. Las diferentes sectas hacen de censores entre si. Es un uniformismo posible? Desde la creacion del cristianismo millones de hombres, mujeres y ninos inocentes han sido quemados, torturados, multados y encarcelados, y aun asi no hemos avanzado ni una pulgada hacia un uniformismo. Cuales han sido los efectos de la cohersion? El efecto ha sido hacer la mitad del mundo estupida y la otra mitad hipocrita. Para mantener a los malvados y al error en toda la tierra.

"...nuestros derechos civiles no dependen de nuestras opiniones religiosas, de la misma forma que no dependen nuestors derechos civiles de nuestras opiniones sobre la fisica o la geometria."

Los sacerdotes cristianos le temen al avance de la ciencia como los vampiros le temen al amanecer, se retuercen ante la posibilidad que se desvanezcan las estupideces en las cuales viven."

BAJO CONSTRUCCION _______

"Recientemente he estado examinando todas las superticiones conocidas en el mundo "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." "In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." "... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself." "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." "It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore him to the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, the roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus." "The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere lapses into polytheism, differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible." "...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise... affect their civil capacities." "It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself." "...If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that is pleasing to him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God." The goatherds and shepherds who followed Moses as their leader were deluded by clumsy deceits into thinking that there was only one God. (I,23)

[Referring to Jesus] he fabricated the story of his birth from a virgin [because] he came from a Jewish village and from a poor country woman who [...] was driven out by her husband as she was convicted of adultery. [...] While she was wandering about in a disgraceful way she secretly gave birth to Jesus. (I,28)

Then was the mother of Jesus beautiful? And because she was beautiful did God have sexual intercourse with her, although by nature He cannot love a corruptible body? It is not likely that God would have fallen in love with her since she was neither wealthy nor of royal birth, for nobody knew her, not even her neighbours. (I,39)

Some people in ecstasy and others who go about begging say that they are sons of God who have come from above. [...] But some thousands will refute Jesus by asserting that the prophecies which were applied to him were spoken of them. (I,50)

The assertion made both by some of the Christians and by the Jews, the former saying that some God or son of God has come down to earth as judge of mankind, the latter saying that he will come, is most shameful, and no lengthy argument is required to refute it. What is the purpose of such a descent on the part of God? Was it in order to learn what was going on among men? Does not he know everything? Was he then unable to correct men merely by divine power, without sending someone specially endowed for this purpose? (IV, 2-3)

Jesus collected round him ten or eleven infamous men, the most wicked tax-collectors and sailors, and with these fled hither and thither, collecting a means of livelihood in a disgraceful and importunate way. (I,62)

Come let us believe that these miracles really were done by you. [...] the works of sorcerers who profess to do wonderful miracles, and the accomplishments of those who are taught by the Egyptians, who for a few obols make known their sacred lore in the middle of the market-place and drive daemons out of men and blow away diseases and invoke the souls of heroes, displaying expensive banquets and dining tables and dishes which are nonexistent and who make things move as though they are alive although they are not really so, but only appear as such in the imagination. Since these men do these wonders, ought we to think them sons of God? Or ought we to say that they are practices of wicked men? (I,68)

Many others of the same type as Jesus have appeared to people who are willing to be deceived. (II,8)

But he [Jesus], who was betrayed by those under his authority, neither ruled like a good general; nor, when he had deceived his disciples, did he even inspire in the men so deceived that good will, if I may call it that, which robbers feel towards their chieftain. (II,12)

If he [Jesus] foretold both the one who was to betray him and the one who was to deny him why did they not fear him as God, so that the one did not betray him nor the other deny him? These things certainly did not happen because they were foretold, for that is impossible; but since they did happen, the assertion that he predicted them is proven to be false. For it should be utterly inconceivable that those who had already heard that Jesus knew their intentions would still have betrayed him and denied him. [...] A God therefore led his own disciples and prophets with whom he used to eat and drink so far astray that they became impious and wicked. (II,18-19)

Furthermore, they say that an angel came to the tomb of this very man (some say one angel, some two), who replied to the women that he was risen. The Son of God, it seems, was not able to open the tomb, but needed someone else to move the stone. (V,52)

Some believers, as though from a drinking bout, go so far as to oppose themselves and alter the original text of the gospel three or four several times over, and they change its character to enable them to deny difficulties in the face of criticism. (II,27)

Anyone with a similar shamelessness could say even of a robber and murderer who had been punished that he, forsooth, was not a robber but a god; for he foretold his robber-gang that he would suffer the sort of things that he did in fact suffer. (II,44)

Christians and Jews quarrel with one another very foolishly, [their] wrangle with one another about Christ is no different from that called in the proverb a fight about the shadow of an ass. (III,1)

It is foolish of them also to suppose that, when God applies the fire (like a cook!), all the rest of mankind will be thoroughly roasted and that they alone will survive, not merely those who are alive at the time but also long dead who will rise up from the earth possessing the same bodies as before. This is simply the hope of worms. [...] For what sort of body, after being entirely corrupted, could return to its original nature and that same condition which it had before it was dissolved? As they have nothing to say in reply, they escape to a most outrageous refuge by saying that "everything is possible to God." (V,14)

The race of Jews and Christians [compare] all to a cluster of bats or ants coming out of a nest, or frogs holding council round a marsh, or worms assembling in some filthy corner, disagreeing with one another about which of them are the worse sinners. They say: God shows and proclaims everything to us beforehand, and He has even deserted the whole world and the motion of heavens, and disregarded the vast earth to give attention to us alone; and He sends messengers to us alone and never stops sending them and seeking that we may be with Him forever. Like worms who say: There is God first, and we are next after Him in rank since He has made us entirely like God, and all things have been put under us, earth, water, air, and stars, and all things exist for our benefit, and have been appointed to serve us. [...] These assertions would be more tolerable coming from worms and frogs than from Jews and Christians disagreeing with one another. (IV,23)

PORPHYRY

Ancient Roman Philosopher, 232 to fourth century C.E.

Adversus Christianos

Ammonius was a Christian, brought up in Christian doctrine by his parents, yet, when he began to think and study philosophy, he immediately changed his way of life conformably to the laws; but Origen, a Greek educated in Greek learning, drove headlong towards barbarian recklessness; and making straight for this he hawked himself and his literary skill about; and while his manner of life was Christian and contrary to the law, in his opinions about material things and the deity he played the Greek, and introduced Greek ideas into foreign fables. (Euseb. Hist. Ecc. VI, 7)
If there is a need to ruminate on the question, that Jesus says [Matt.xi:25]: "I thank thee, O father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." [...] Certainly those things for children and fools should be clearer and not in the way of riddles. For if the mysteries have been hidden from the wise and have been illogically poured upon children and sucklings, then it is better to pursue folly and boorishness. (Mac. Mag. IV,9)
Even if one of the Greeks would be stupid enough to think that the Gods dwell in the statues, this idea would be much less of a dullness than that of one who believes a God had come down into the body of virgin Mary, and after the birth had been put into diapers, covered with the blood of the placenta, gall-bladder, and even more repulsive things. (Mac. Mag. IV,22 )
Much quoted is also the following saying of their master: "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." [John 6:53]. This, forsooth, is not only brutish and absurd, but even more absurd than any absurdity, and even more brutish than everything common to beasts, that a man should eat human flesh and drink the blood of those who are from the same stock, and the same lineage, and that by doing this he will acquire eternal life. (Mac. Mag. III,15)

JULIAN

Pagan Roman Emperor, 331C.E. - 363 C.E.

Contra Galilaeos

Compare with them the Jewish doctrine, how the garden was planted by God and Adam was fashioned by Him, and next, for Adam, woman came to be. For God said: [Gen ii:18]: "It is not good that the man should be alone. Let us make him a help-mate like him." Yet so far was she from helping him at all that she deceived him, and was in part the cause of his and her own fall from their life of ease in the garden. This is wholly fabulous. For is it probable that God did not know that the being he was creating as a help-mate would prove to be not so much a blessing as a misfortune to him who received her? (75A-75B)
Moreover, is it not excessively strange that God should deny to the human beings whom he had fashioned the power to distinguish between good and evil? What could be more foolish than a being unable to distinguish good from bad? For it is evident that he would not avoid the latter, I mean things evil, nor would he strive after the former, I mean things good. And in short, God refused to let man taste of wisdom, than which there could be nothing of more value for him. For that the power to distinguish between good and less good is the property of wisdom is evident surely even to the witless; so that the serpent was a benefactor rather than a destroyer of the human race. Furthermore, their God must be called envious. For when he saw that man had attained to a share of wisdom, that he might not, God said, taste of the tree of life, he cast him out of the garden. [...] Accordingly, unless every one of these legends is a myth that involves some secret interpretation, as I indeed believe, they are filled with blasphemous sayings about God. For in the first place to be ignorant that she [Eve] who was created as a help-mate would be the cause of the fall; secondly to refuse the knowledge of good and bad, which knowledge alone seems to give coherence to the mind of man; and lastly to be jealous lest man should take of the tree of life (...) this is to be grudging and envious overmuch. (89A-94A)
Now of the dissimilarity of language Moses has given a wholly fabulous explanation. For he said that the sons of men came together intending to build a city, and a great tower therein, but that God said that he must go down and confound their languages. And that no one may think I am falsely accusing him of this, I will read from the book of Moses what follows [Gen xi:4ff]: "And they said, Go to, let us build a city and a tower." ... And then you demand that we should believe this account, while you yourselves disbelieve Homer's narrative of the Aloadae, namely that they planned to set three mountains one on another. [...] For my part, I say that this tale is almost as fabulous as the other. But if you accept the former, why in the name of the Gods do you discredit Homer's fable? For I suppose that to men as ignorant as you I must say nothing about the fact that even if all men throughout the inhabited world ever employ one speech and one language, they will not be able to build a tower that will reach to the heavens, even though they should turn the whole earth into bricks. For such a tower will need countless bricks, each one as large as the earth, if they are to succeed in reaching to the orbit of the moon. (134D-135C)
That is a surprising law of Moses, I mean the famous decalogue [Exod xx:14ff]: "Thou shalt not steal", "Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt not bear false witness," [...]
Now except for the command "Thou shalt not worship other gods," and "Remember the Sabbath day," what nation is there, I ask in the name of the gods, which does not think that it ought to keep the other commandments? So much so that penalties have been ordained against those who transgress them, sometimes more severe, sometimes similar to those enacted by Moses, though they are sometimes more humane. (152B-152D)
But what sort of imitation of God is praised among the Hebrews? Anger and wrath and fierce jealousy. For God says (Num xxv:11) 'Phinehas hath turned away my wrath among them'. (...) 'For I am a jealous God', (Exod xx:5), he [Moses] says, and in another place again (Deut iv:24), 'Our God is a consuming fire'. Then if a man is jealous and envious you think him blameworthy, whereas if God is called jealous you think it a divine quality? (171E,155C-155D)
But has God granted to you to originate any science or any philosophical study? Why, what is it? For the theory of the heavenly bodies was perfected among the Hellenes, after the first observations had been made among the barbarians in Babylon. And the study of geometry took its rise in the measurement of the land in Egypt, and from this grew to its present importance. Arithmetic began with the Phoenician merchants ... these three the Hellenes combined with music into one science... Need I tell over their names man by man or under their professions? I mean, either the individual men, as for instance Plato, Socrates, Aristides, Cimon, Thales, Agesilaus, Archidamus, - or should I rather speak of the class of philosophers, of generals, of artificers, of lawgivers? For it will be found that even the most wicked and most brutal of the generals behaved more mildly to the greatest offenders than Moses did to those who had done no wrong. (178A-184C)
Is their "wisest" man Solomon at all comparable with Phocylides or Theognis or Isocrates among the Hellenes? Certainly not. At least, if one were to compare the exhortations of Isocrates with Solomons proverbs, you would, I am sure, find that the son of Theodorus is superior to their "wisest" king. "But," they answer, "Solomon was proficient in the secret cult of God." What then? Did not this Solomon serve our gods also, deluded by his wife, as they assert [I Kings xi:4]? What great virtue! Waht wealth of wisdom! He could not rise superior to pleasure, and the arguments of a woman led him astray! (224C-224D)
And why is it that you [the Christians] do not abide even by the traditions of the Hebrews or accept the law which God has given to them? Nay, you have forsaken their teachings even more than ours, abandoning the religion of your forefathers and giving yourselves over to the predictions of the prophets. For if any man should wish to examine into the truth concerning you, he will find that the impiety is compounded of the rashness of the Jews and the indifference and vulgarity of the Gentiles. For from both sides you have drawn what is by no means their best but their inferior teaching, and so have made for yourselves a border of wickedness. For the Hebrews have precise laws concerning religious worship, ... but the reverence for every higher nature, characteristic of our religious worship, combined with the love of the traditions of our forefathers, you have cast off, and have acquired only the habit of eating all things, "even as the green herb"... (238A-238D)

This is not really ancient, but also impressive. Furthermore it shows that natives were not "brutish savages, which by reason of their godles (sic) ignorance, and blasphemous Idolatrie (sic) ... worship the divell (sic) and offer their young children in sacrifice," as was claimed by the Christians.

SAGOYEWATHA

"Red Jacket", Chief of the Seneca People 1805

Reply to an Evangelical Missionary's Effort to Proselytize

Brother...Listen to what we say. ...Our seats were once large and yours were small. You have now become a great people, and we have scarcely a place left to spread our blankets. You have got our country, but are not satisfied; you want to force your religion upon us.
Brother: Continue to listen. You say that you are sent to instruct us how to worship the Great Spirit agreeably to his mind, and, if we do not take hold of the religion which you white people teach, we shall be unhappy thereafter. You say that you are right and we are lost. How do we know this to be true? We only ... know what you tell us about it. How shall we know when to believe, being so often deceived by the white people?
Brother: You say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it?...
Brother: We do not understand these things. We are told that your religion was given to your forefathers, and has been handed down from father to son. We also have a religion, which was given to our forefathers, and has been handed down to us, their children. We worship in that way. It teaches us to be thankful for all the favors we receive; to love each other, and to be united. We never quarrel about religion...
Brother: We do not wish to destroy your religion, or take it from you. We only want to enjoy our own...
Brother: We are told that you have been preaching to the white people in this place. These people are our neighbours. We are acquainted with them. We will wait a little while, and see what effect your preaching has upon them. If we find it does them good, makes them honest and less disposed to cheat Indians, we will then consider again of what you have said.

References

M.Stern, Greek and Latin Authors on Jews and Judaism, Jerusalem 1974
R.Wright, Stolen Continents, London 1992