| SRF Walrus > Core Issues > Degrading experience |
| Author | Comment |
| Reporter Unregistered User (11/3/01 11:50:08 pm) Reply |
Degrading
experience
People have asked here for examples, while someone else has pointed out that the abuse we speak of is physiological which makes this difficult. But examples abound if you look for them. The abusive treatment showed itself in many ways. “In Recovery”, who appears to be a former monastic, posted a message which said “…I also needed money for a decent pair of trousers and a pair of shoes and I was reminded that the budget is limited. Asking for help became a very degrading experience. Even now I can hardly believe how much I bought into the idea that my needs were not legitimate unless I was really desperate and my clothes and shoes were falling apart.” This type of abuse was not limited to the monastics. Employees have had salary issues for years. The rule was that you only got a raise if you go to your boss and could show a need. A need? Based on what? Br. Graham drives a sport utility vehicle and some of the employees are almost living out of their cars. I know an employee who went five years without a raise and of course now there is a wage freeze altogether. This rule was never defined. It lead to many unfair situations but the Board never reconsidered the treatment and I believe it is still in effect. SRF doesn’t give a hoot about it’s employees. |
| Shadowman Unregistered User (11/4/01 12:39:19 am) Reply |
Money-astics
Daya Mata lives in a million dollar home. Br. Graham drives a sport utillity vehicle. The Brothers have their own mountain bikes and palm pilots. We've misunderstood their vows of renunciation. Simplicity. Hmmm? |
| KS Unregistered User (11/4/01 6:44:31 am) Reply |
Possessions
Daya and Ananda matas house, and Graham’s SUV are among the things that are pretty weird but many of the monks have enough money to buy themselves things like palm pilots and expensive bikes. No one stops them and maybe that is not too bad. Their lives are so miserable that they need this distraction. The bikes allow them to get away for a while where they can really meditate. The palm pilots and other techno-toys are just distractions. The members are not providing money for their support. Someone here wanted evidence of the internal problems. The fact that monastics need these outlets, palm pilot status symbols and other toys, might look like evidence that the monastic life style itself is not providing something in their lives. Might not. |
| Been
there Unregistered User (11/4/01 11:15:44 am) Reply |
Monastics and material
things
Firstly, no one is buying bikes and palm pilots on $40 a month. Ministers and counselors receive money and gifts from the members. They are not "required" to report an individual gift of money if it is $100 or less. This can add up, and alot of these guys have got some groovy stuf. And some monastics have family money. At the same time, most of their fellow monastics who have taken the same vows have zilch. The former psychological consultants referred to this as a culture of "haves" and "have-nots." Pretty weird. There are nuns feeling terribly guilty for needing to buy a dress (and just try finding ones that meets the dress code!) while some monks have their own vehicles and jet off for conferences in various cities, stay in nice hotels, etc. This is not to say that the toys or the travel makes any of them happy. It makes the life more bearable for some, however. And I for one would never deny them any happiness they can find. |
| Raja
Begum Unregistered User (11/4/01 2:08:08 pm) Reply |
Something's not right
about that picture
I wouldn't want to deprive them of life's joys either. But some of those "renuniciants" live more opulently than I do. "Have" and "have nots" --- that should NEVER exist in a monastic environment. |
| KS Unregistered User (11/4/01 10:41:18 pm) Reply |
Imagine
Imagine how it makes the members working their feel. They serve all day then some serve Sunday and week nights at the temples. They make low wages then see Graham drive off in his SUV working a few hours a day. |
| Musicman Unregistered User (11/5/01 5:04:32 pm) Reply |
Monastic
opulence
If you know anything about the history of Catholic monastic orders, none of this sounds very new--it's been going on for centuries. Monastic establishments in the 18th century were often like palaces, complete with huge libraries, large wine cellars, resident musicians and composers to provide dinner entertainment, etc. And don't think there wasn't plenty of hanky-panky going on. The true history of Casanova and his debaucheries at a local convent tell you everything you need to know. SRF isn't that bad--yet. But it's not hard to see that the seeds have been planted. Is it general knowledge that SRF is spending almost half a million dollars to add bathrooms to Hollywood Temple? When they want to spend money, they have it to spend. They plead poverty in all other cases. There are very disturbing parallels in the organization Mother Teresa of Calcutta established. If you are a genuine iconoclast like me, you won't want to miss reading Christopher Hitchens's fabulous book Missionary Position, the only critical writing I have ever seen about someone normally held to be perfect and inviolable in every respect. |
| Recovering
Slowly Unregistered User (11/5/01 6:24:38 pm) Reply |
money
I knew the monk from the Richmond Temple who got the boot from SRF several years ago because he had an affair with a lay member. He was well liked. SRF paid the woman around $350,000 to keep quiet. I don't know what happened to him, if he was ousted, or if he ever got any help or money from the organization. No monastery if perfect, and people like to look for the imperfections, it seems. |
| KS Unregistered User (11/5/01 10:04:33 pm) Reply |
That incident
I don't believe there has been any criticism of that incident on this board. The women should have been compensated, depending on the circumstances. I hope it was not hush money but that would be SRF’s style! My understanding is that the monk involved was booted out with no help from SRF. That is not so unexpected. The fact that SRF has funded a lawsuit against another organization for this same behavior must be an embarrassment for SRF. |
| Musicman Unregistered User (11/6/01 9:58:56 am) Reply |
Hanky-panky at Mt.
Washington
This is perhaps unfair, but since the person has left the order and his conduct was so unbecoming a senior monk, correct me if I'm mistaken in identifying him as (former) Bro. xxxxxxxxxx. He was in the habit of sneaking out of the ashram at night for amorous encounters with a devotee living on the Hill. I believe she threatened to sue, which scared the daylights out of the BOD, which settled out of court. I don't want to spread false info, so if this is wrong, please speak up. This is what I had in mind when I said the seeds have been planted. I can easily imagine that in a 100 years, if SRF lasts that long (in its present configuration, that seems highly unlikely), it could be a sink hole of corruption. I know a long-time devotee and current employee of SRF who has said he wouldn't give the organization one penny. I wonder why? One last thought: If Ma is omniscient and goes through the monastics' consciousnesses, why didn't she pick up on this? One devotee friend of mine has come up with (in all seriousness) a delicious oxymoron: selective omniscience. Hey, it beats any explanation I have, except bald-faced lying. Edited by: srfwalrus at: 11/6/01 10:44:41 pm |
| Recovering
Slowly Unregistered User (11/6/01 11:25:55 am) Reply |
money
KC, what lawsuit, I don't know what you mean. My point was that there seems to be lots of ready cash when SRF wants to put forth a good public face, but concerns about monastics seems to be bottom of the barrel. Where is our organization getting all this money and why is there this imbalance? |
| Reporter Unregistered User (11/6/01 12:47:33 pm) Reply |
Ma
Consciousness
Musicman --- Daya's reputation as a God realized saint is pushed and pushed and pushed but is not true. She is not "going through the monastics' minds" or even thinking about them much. |
| Been
there Unregistered User (11/6/01 2:32:30 pm) Reply |
For Recovering
Slowly
I think the lawsuit KS is referring to is the sexual harrassment suit against Kriyananda. SRF denies any involvement in this. |
| Musicman Unregistered User (11/6/01 3:22:12 pm) Reply |
Omniscience
Reporter--Occam would be proud of you! The simplest of two explanations tends to be the correct one. Either she is omniscient or she isn't. There is no halfway point (like being a "little bit" pregnant). Diagnosis: she ain't. |
| In
Recovery Unregistered User (11/8/01 7:11:56 pm) Reply |
Gifts to
Ministers
I knew of only a few monks who had substantial family wealth, and I have no gripes about them spending it on fancy do-dads that help make their lives a little easier and more entertaining. The main issue for me is how the system is set up to bleed the monastics dry of any personal funds they might have and make them completely dependent on the ashram for all their needs. And also the disparity between senior and younger monastics. Most of the monastics are virtually unknown to the membership and therefore receive no gifts like what the ministers receive (and I've seen the kind of gifts they've received -- very expensive items). I'm not complaining about this but just observing the disparity. And the younger monastics know nothing about what financial aid they can ask for because that information is not volunteered until Personnel deems what they are wearing as unsuitable. I'm not saying that there's a collaborative effort among the seniors to withhold that information from the younger ones, but that the present system doesn't consider these needs. Instead, the system is set up to protect the organization from being screwed. To KS: Believe me, the monastics with expensive bicycles are NOT using them to escape somewhere to meditate. First of all, the bicycles at the retreats are all busted up, have flat tires and screwy gears. What fancy bicycles that are donated end up at the nearby work retreat in Sierra Madre, which is available only to certain monks (more senior ones), and therefore the bicycles are available only to certain monks. Younger monks need special permission and the company of senior monks to go to this retreat. It's all just too much trouble just to get access to something that was donated for ALL the monks' usage, and so the younger monks just go along with it all without knowing how badly they're being screwed. |
