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Sandy's personality typing notes

Here are some notes I have collected that help explain personality typing


************ INTPs: that they're closed to information that doesn't fit in with the conceptual structure they've erected in their heads. These kindred stereotypes suggest that the problem has less to do with the ability of either type to "hear" what's being said than it does with the kind of information each type regards as relevant.
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Ironically, this is also where other types become frustrated in debates with INTJs, because one eventually bumps up against the outer rim of an Intuitive arc, at which point the INTJ will say, "No, the information you're offering is not relevant. If you want to talk about that, we have to agree on a different set of logical reference points." Probably 3/5 of the exchanges I've had with Scot in this forum have been devoted to that sort of thing. Whereupon he starts pointing: This IS relevant information! Look at it!
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INTJs experience themselves as contending with a closed system that shortcircuits alternatives. The subject was differences between the way the preferences experience God.
T's "debate and dialogue on matters of faith."
F's "discuss and persuade in matters of faith."
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As for ISTJ or NP, one clue will be your communication style. The STJ is role directive, whereas the NP is role informative. If you start to watch people for these two ways of communicating, it becomes very clear very fast.
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The reason why Fe+Si or Si+Fe is conservative is not in either Fe or Si alone. It's in the ombination. Strong Si enables one to learn concrete things like rules, facts and traditions. Strong Fe makes one want to learn socially accepted rules, facts and traditions.
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Lecturers seem to be introverted intuitives - bound to a particular way of thinking and push their language and limited academic interests above all else, neglecting both the big picture and practicalities. People a lot less N than our good selves feel there's something missing.
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The reason why Fe+Si or Si+Fe is conservative is not in either Fe or Si alone. It's in the ombination. Strong Si enables one to learn concrete things like rules, facts and traditions. Strong Fe makes one want to learn socially accepted rules, facts and traditions.

Using S means not bothering to find out any with deeper, underlying meanings of whatever encountered, but choosing to take it as it seems to be.

Using N means pondering the underlying connections between things and whatever patterns they possibly represent.

Using T means organizing perceptions in a linear and logical fashion, relying on impersonal principles and rules of inference.

Using F means organizing perceptions in a non-linear and lateral fashion, relying on weigh of evidence and personal value.
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Disagreement with an F's ideas is generally taken personally - it is hard for an F to separate themselves from anything they do, because of their people-centred view of the world. Attacking the F's cerebral contents in an argument is tantamount to an attack on them personally. "I feel, therefore I am". I find that with Fs, the best approach is the gentle one. With the NFs, it is vitally important to to show them that you are not disagreeing with *them*, just perhaps you are not understanding their point of view *yet*. With the SFs, it is important to show them that they are none the worse off for you disagreeing with them, and that we can all live and let live and they are in no way threatened by the disagreement.
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I find that the SFs are the most difficult to deal with; first of all, we don't speak the same language - SP communicates by objects and exclusively sense data, my NT by abstract ideas. The SFJs are terrified of rocking the boat, whereas an SFP gets frustrated by the obtuse, hyperbolic language of an N. ISFPs, for example, communicate more by actions than words, and hence they tend not to be as verbally articulate as an N. Whereas an N, especially an NT, is almost all words and nought else.
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What you call F-judgement is what I would call "personality"-- for example, if I decide to sign up for a course just because all my friends are going to be in it, then that's an F-judgement call, and if someone criticizes that, then it's like criticizing who or what kind of a person you are... That's just an F interpretation; I think that F's naturally get personally involved with their decisions, so by criticizing a decision, you could be criticizing the person.
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Adolescent NTs, whose impersonal thought processes and increasing verbal skills prompt them to treat conversations as though they were pinball games. Most NTs get over this somewhere on the far side of puberty, and they're just as impatient as you are with people who think the primary goal of dialogue is to shoot down others' ideas and rack up the most points.
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When NT's debate they generally believe that their view is the correct one from the beginning. And it's very important to them that their view *be* correct, because holding an incorrect idea is a negative reflection on the reasoning abilities that are so dear to them, and is therefore ego-bruising.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ENTPs and ENFPs do have a lot in common -- I believe it's called "wackiness" ;-). Theirs is the personal type, ours tends to be intellectual. We do that for fun. When we're serious we can be pragmatic, and so can ENFPs.
I've always suspected that this might be harder for INTPs; the structures and theories inside my head are sometimes so intricate that the sequential nature of human language causes me to lose so much detail in expressing them, so much so that I am *misunderstood*. In an argument situation, I need to struggle with
(a) I am not understood,
(b) I am understood but not agreed with - why not??
(c) I could be wrong. (erg!)
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I really admire ENFP's, although all their fluff can get annoying; they are people maniacs. However, they are not analytical in any way shape or form (which does not make them any less intelligent in my book, just not logical)
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One of the hallmarks of an INTJ approach to life is the utter certainty that there IS no one correct view of ANYTHING. Including THAT view.
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Like all dominant Intuitives, once the validity of a perspective is accepted, the INTJ is likely to lose interest in it and even set about deconstructing it. The INTJ is concerned with objects fitting into place, and will channel all his imagination into coming up with a solution that is viable and correct. So, to an INTJ, a correct thinking is one which produces a system in which everything works and works correctly.
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An INTP is rather more concerned with a correct and logically watertight explanation for why things occur, and how it all works. An INTP's correct thinking involves coming up with a general theory to explain why things work the way they do - drawing threads between events, generating theories and principles, one which, ideally, works in all possible cases within a given domain.
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INFJ's and ENFJ's often have unconventional ideas and convictions. They're the idealists who want to change the world to correct what they perceive as ethical wrongs.
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I would say that Fe motivates one to seek harmony in relations between people. The combination of Fe and Si motivates one to harmonize the relations between people in the realm of customs, traditions and rules.
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For an ESFJ, an INTP may seem like a big child completely helpless in practical matters, a perfect justification for what the ESFJ naturally does: take care of physical needs and nurture. For an ENFJ, an INTP may seem like someone out of touch with his/her emotional side, needing for help from someone to bring that out.
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She's one of the ones that will discuss everything to death. A definite P thing!
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If you're like every other ENTP I've met, you're going to put off that homework until the last minute anyway.
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As one of my INTP friends puts it, "think of how you can add something to what they said, rather than attacking and contradicting what they said.

The possibility that "I could be wrong" stays with an INTP for life.
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I've come into contact with a lot of dominant intuitives and ordinarily I don't concern myself too much with deconstructing their views because I know to do so would be almost rude. They're simply indulging their N and departing from reality is part of the pleasure of that experience. They don't really *expect* to be taken perfectly seriously because the views they formulate are merely speculations, idea voyages, whose purpose isn't necessarily to depict reality but instead to give N free play. They don't even believe them very much themselves, only until some newer idea supplants them.
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Perhaps this further illustrates the J/P difference; an INTJ sees a specific problem as an isolated box, that operates in a specified reality or domain. But an INTP is intent on seeing the blind men and the Elephant as a part of a Big Problem that exists in Reality (a One Reality View);isolated solutions do not count. INTJs seem to live with the notion that it is "all arbitrary" anyway, and are happy to skip from one reality to the next with each problem; INTPs are driven by the need to construct a model of Reality that is certain, a model which is constantly under construction - each new problem, with its solution further refines this model.
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What happens when ENTP's get together? I find the same sort of stuff that goes on in our minds.. And endless array of topics, often quickly moving from one to the next, a constant development of new ideas,long and enlightening discussions/arguments. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

It is apparent to me, that what constitutes a convincing argument, differs from type to type. This does make debate between different types quite difficult. To have successful discussions/debates with someone of a different type,we would each need to adjust our style (assuming we know what works for that particular type). This would be very difficult, if not impossible, because it would mean moving outside of our own intellectual / emotional comfort zone, to something which we don't identify with / fully understand, and/or accept as a valid (for us) way of looking at things.
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It's typical of ENTP's to create huge numbers of associations that will never be really integrated into logical wholes.
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My secretary, an ISTJ (Si not Fe), is not compelled by feeling concerns that appear to some as the "moral high ground," but is diligent about birthdays, school, church and family responsibilities. In contrast, my former ENFJ supervisor (Fe not Si), cared little for "by the book" rules, regulations and cultural norms, but was constantly adjuring us not to offend anyone, along with other behaviors-in-service- of-relationship.

Any relationship where the middle two letters are the same and the first and last are opposite is called "mirror," which is one of the most compatible, according to the infosocial model, although the "ideal" is where all letters are opposite except for the last. For example ENTP-ISFP. This is called duality. For some reason, a ENTP-ISFJ would, on the other hand, be one of the worst, called "conflict."
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When is a process unconscious, what does that mean? It makes sense to define the unconscious in terms of attention. When a process is unconscious, we're not paying attention to it. For instance, we don't consciously pay attention to how we maintain balance when riding a bicycle, because that has become automatic. Neither are we consciously aware of how we organize our visual perceptions because we learned that early in our childhood. That has become automatic, too. We can consciously attend only a few things at a time, so most of what goes on in our minds is out of the scope of our attention.
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NT people are extremely hard to talk out of our ideations, including the negative ones, because our ideas are our reality.
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If you ever decide to get counseling, choose your counselor carefully. There are many working as psychologists and psychotherapists with a conscious preference for an NF type of cognition, but who are actually SJs to the bone. Psychology is the kind of field bound by countless rules. Many who practice it just mindlessly follow authorities' writings with no living insight into the mind. You need to find someone who is your intellectual equal.
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Caesar was an excellent example of an extreme ENTJ. If an extreme ENTJ could,s/he would reorganize everything.
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I had my memory tested with a set of tests containing questions where it was asked to memorize arbitrary sensory patterns, sequences of numbers, pairs of words etc. The result was considerably poorer than the average result in every section.
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This is what it means to be an extreme N. There is nothing wrong with my intelligence or memory for ideas that make logical sense, but memorizing arbitrary data has always been painful for me. Neither have I ever bothered to develop memorization strategies for such information because I have deemed it pointless. But probably developing some Si would not be a bad idea at all.
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The S perception of reality is much richer in the details. Awareness of and consequently memory for details is crucially important in many types of work. I would hate to be defended in court by a lawyer with to working knowledge of the law and previous cases relevant to the present one in his/her memory. Nor would I like an extreme N incapable of attending to details tinker with by brain.

To read more about the different attributes of personalities see http://www.centacs.com/quik-pt1.htm

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