"Weavers Words" Vol. 2 Iss. 113 Date Sent: April 14, 1999 Web Page: http://www.iei.net/~davidc/ Subscribers: 1012 David Collins 408 North Devon Avenue Indianapolis, IN 46219 317-899-5747 davidc@iei.net %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Do You Like Weavers Words? Click Below To "Recommend-It" To A Friend! http://recommend-it.com/l.z.e?s=210339 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Web Cards" - Create Full-Color Postcards For Your Web Page. http://www.printing.com/affiliate.asp?site=davidc For every free sample of "Web Cards" that you request from the above link, I will receive a $1 commission. It cost you NOTHING. Once you receive your free sample, you can purchase personalized "Web Cards" for your web page and/or business if you like. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 111 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:17:00 -0600 From: "Rae Hunter" To: "David Collins" I am not aware of a pattern problem up here in Alberta to date. Maybe it's because the original basketmaker ancestors in this country died a long time ago. Their descendants haven't bothered us about copying or manipulating their original styles and or techniques. I learned how to make a melon basket from a Ukrainian man, Pete who learned from his father who learned from his father who learned from his grandfather......... (No patterns) My first basket hardly resembled Pete's basket. And they still don't. Pete is also dead and I am teaching his "pattern". When I teach we all make a willow melon basket and I can assure you there are no two the same in the class all beautiful in their own deference's(no pattern). Throughout my teaching I have developed notes that I handed out as "patterns". With feedback from students resulting in improvements I have written a manual for making a willow melon basket. It's still in the process of being printed. It even has it's own ISBN number. I did it with a the push of a friend who did the illustrations. I suppose this manual could be considered a pattern but I hardly consider it "my pattern". I hope someone will buy it, copy it, and make as many as they care to. They can even sell it for more or less than the book or what I sell my baskets for. Good grief, if you look in any ancient or modern basketry book you will find variations of any basket from its imprint in clay to it's picture on the internet. We look at the basic techniques and shapes of baskets from many origins and we are influenced by them. We may try to mimic them exactly. Sometimes we can't or because the material has a mind of it's own... or we have, we wind up with a variation.....our own creation, our own joy to share. If we are lucky maybe the basket we make will influence someone to make a basket like it or unlike it in some way. Let's not fool ourselves. Just because the person who made the first basket is dead and gone and didn't write a pattern doesn't mean we haven't just been influenced by them. Can we honestly say that we haven't copied their techniques and styles and given them a little twist, paint, embellishment, size or shape variation to make it our own? This is such a great group of basket artists and unselfishly David gives us this gift to share. I have never read about him complaining that we are taking from him. I don't like to read about you wasting your basket making or pattern developing time hurting each other. So come on now, hug and make up, we all have bad days. Recently I did. But, rather than tell 1000 people I found a sympathetic ear-mailer to cry to. Thanks to her, she made me feel much better. I am here if you need an ear. Hey, this soapbox is new to me and it just tipped me off. Cheers, love and positive energy to all. Rae %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Febreeze Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:12:46 -0500 From: "Crystal R. Drenner" To: davidc@iei.net I have dealt with my dog being severely ill because of Febreeze. My vet has also been in contact with others regarding it. Proctor and Gamble are saying everything is okay because they don't want the blame. My animal is 100% better since we scrubbed all the rooms in the house, ceilings, furniture, etc. It was a big chore, but worth my pets health. If anyone wants to information on what I dealt with, according to my pets health {symptoms}, please e-mail me. My vet has also treated other cases with the same problem from Febreeze. The more the word spreads the better our health and our animals health will be. Crystal cdrenner@netnitco.net %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Basket shops in WI Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:13:24 -0500 From: cjc619 To: davidc@iei.net To Gretchen who is looking for basket shops in Wisconsin: I live 35 miles west of Milwaukee and know of two basket shops. One is in Brookfield and is called "The Basket Shoppe". It is located in the Stonewood Village shops on Capitol Drive. The phone number is 414-790-9166. The other shop is located in Hubertus and is called "Basket Boutique". It is owned by Mary Zutavern. I don't have the phone number, but here is Mary's email address (perhaps she could give you directions on how to get there from wherever you will be staying): zutaverns@mixcom.com Hope you enjoy your stay in Wisconsin! Lisa Carstens %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: basket shops, classes, etc in WI Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:21:31 -0500 From: cjc619 To: davidc@iei.net David, I forgot to mention to Gretchen that there is also the Lake Country Basket Fest going on at the Waukesha County Technical College in Pewaukee on April 30 through May 2. Gratiot Lake Basketry has catalogs that give more information about it. Lisa Carstens, Hartland, WI %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Febreze Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:41:25 +0000 From: Tony Stubblefield or Dean Meredith To: David Collins/Weavers Words Hello, OK, only happy thoughts, everyone repeat after me "Happy thoughts":-) Frebreze - I have three cats, one of which is sometimes unduly stressed and decides to use other things than the litter box. Case in point, a coiled basket from Jamaica filled with matchbooks! The basket sat in the corner of my living room and I thought I was going to have to have the carpet replaced, but after a good cleaning with Resolve carpet cleaner and a few treatments of Frebreze the odor is completely gone and I have a very sensitive nose. The basket was pretty much of a goner thought and so were the matches :-(( The cats are doing fine. I agree with Naomi. I have a shaving pony which I love. I shape all market basket rims of my 1/2" half round rims on it using a draw knife. I tightly fit the unshaped rims to the baskets mark the 3"+ overlaps and then scarf them wet. I then refit them to the basket with overlaps on opposite sides of the baskets and lash. I never let the rims dry first, that was I can shape the basket after I finish lashing and let it dry into shape. Naomi, have you taken your mold out yet? I guess I wove pretty tightly, around the top especially and I didn't know if I was going to get the mold apart. I worked on it for quite awhile doing the dryer/freezer trick and eventually was able to work the center section out. I will definitely oil the dovetail joins next time. Gotta go to work now before I am late, Tony Stubblefield St. Louis http://www.tetranet.net/users/deanandtony/baskets.htm %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:12:03 +0100 From: robert.sutherland@zoology.oxford.ac.uk (Rob Sutherland) To: David Collins Dear David and fellow WW'ers, I'm getting bored. Perhaps it's because I'm a maker of natural willow baskets and don't find any real need to use written patterns. I was taught loads of basic techniques appropriate to willow work and I enjoy reading books on all types of weaving so that I can adapt other techniques to willow. I can then combine these techniques to create a basket by keeping form and proportion and balance of weaver thickness in mind. There are a lot of reasons why I do not use, or even condone the use of center cane. The source of this material isn't Diane or Pam's online shop. It's tropical forests of the Philippines and other islands. The long, trailing vines aren't planted and later harvested, they are taken from the wild. I do not begrudge the islanders a decent living based on the gathering of forest products, but the big markups come after the material is processed and resold by craft retailers. This is the most unethical and environmentally irresponsible bit. Now, as I have an audience of 1000+ basket weavers, let me suggest that many of you stop shuddering at the thought of branching out into the exotic territory of weaving with 'naturals'. It's what all weavers were doing before our global economy allowed us to strip resources from the developing world for our own benefit. Willows grow very well in many parts of the US, purchasing them from American suppliers like Ron and Bobbie Harrison in KY will help the domestic supply grow. The willow rods for weaving are a single year's growth, rather than a rattan vine, which takes many years to reach maturity under the cover of a relatively undisturbed rainforest. From an environmental and sustainability standpoint, willow is infinitely superior. Also, there has been so much talk about dying cane, finishing it, sealing it, etc. Stripped willow has a natural sheen and tactile quality that cannot be beat by any varnish. The colors are very natural and pleasing. Unstripped willow comes in a huge variety of pleasant shades, not the jarring ones I've seen on so many of the pattern-derived cane baskets. No chemicals to put in a dyebath and flush down the drains. Just nature's clever use of pigments. Many weavers must have the misconception that natural materials like willow are suitable only for rustic, functional baskets. I would urge you visit David's website and look at the designs of Andris Lapins. His Latvian willow work is truly exquisite. It is just one of many local variations of willow work so widespread across Great Britain and Europe. I would also recommend Mary Butcher's work as an example of the artistry that can be achieved with willow. Willow weaving requires far fewer tools than cane weaving. If you're weaving with cane, you have almost everything you need to work willow. The only other thing you need is a place to soak the rods. Most people start working with 3-4' willow, and this can be soaked easily in a bathtub. I prefer to work with larger stuff because my hands are better suited to coercing thick rods into shape than trying to do delicate weaving with fine rods. Forget miniature work. For the larger stuff, you can either use an old animal feed trough, a small pond, or for those in urban areas like myself, lengths of 4" diameter PVC pipe plugged with an endcap at one end make suitable soaking vessels when upright. My wife and I can do it all in a very cramped student flat in Oxford. As a start, check out Bonnie Gale's website to see what's available and what willow work in the English tradition might look like. The greatest thing of all about willow, certainly relevant to all this recent heartache over pattern copying, is that it is a natural material and doesn't lend itself to the kind of specific patterns created for cane. This doesn't mean you have to be a creative genius to create a basket. It just means that you won't have to worry about cutting specific lengths of willow for specific projects or purchasing a specific wooden base or wooden handle. You can do it all with an assortment of sizes of willow. I will look into which English suppliers of basketry willow will ship overseas. Unstripped might be a problem with USDA, but buff and white should be alright. I'm not suggesting that you should look to foreign markets preferentially. If you can get some from the Harrisons, Bonnie Gale, or others locally, do so. The beauty of willow work is in the large number of varieties, textures, colors, sizes, etc. Until these local suppliers can meet the demand, it might be useful to have an alternative source. Or better still, get your beds going to grow your own. Then you can say it is hand-woven by you, to your own design, with willows you grew yourself. How could anybody resist that. I know that this post is getting long, but I wanted to close by sharing an exquisite willow moment with you (can you tell I'm an addict?)... My wife and I went for a walk after dinner the other night down by the Cherwell River, a tributary of the Thames. There were some ancient willow pollards stretching their limbs abruptly skyward from their stocky trunks. I needed a couple of handle bows, so we went across the river to the pollards and cut a couple of straight shoots to bring home. All our willows have just started leafing out and producing beautiful, fragrant catkins in the past month. When the sap starts to rise in the stems, the bark becomes very loose. To produce milky white rods, the bark can be stripped from the rods revealing the shiny inner cambium. My wife and I took the couple of rods home to peel. Lacking any cord to tie my sappy rods into shape for handle bows, we twisted and plied the stripped bark into cordage and tied the bows into shape. I then inserted a second rod into the cordage and twisted to draw the bow tight like a clamp and braced the rod against the bow to keep it from unwinding. All natural, and so effective. Let's keep all the sniping back and forth about stealing patterns and undercutting prices to private e-mail. You are all just making yourselves look petty and unprofessional. What's more, most weavers are on this list to learn about new techniques, materials, etc. and to get to know one another. I don't think anyone wants to become known as the one who complains about this or that. Also, willow isn't the only natural thing worth weaving (although I think it's the best). I'm so intrigued by seaweed weaving, barks, ash splints, kudzu, etc. Let's have some more info on these areas of the craft. If you should want some more information on willow weaving techniques, tools, etc, feel free to contact me by e-mail. I'm always happy to procrastinate from my lab work. Rob Sutherland in variable (sun to hailstorm in 20 min.) Oxford, England P.S. I'm not English, I'm from Georgia. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: RE: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 9:08:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Judith Richmond Spates To: davidc@iei.net Hi everyone!! When I turned on my computer this morning, I was excited to see another WW posting. However, as I am read it I became more horrified as I went along. Please DO NOT call the author of a pattern to ask permission to sell a particular design or how much to sell it for!!! I, personally, would be on the phone from morning till night answering these questions. I design my patterns to share with all of you. I love hearing all the different ways you add color or change the pattern slightly to blend in with your own style of weaving. My personal style is more of a New England look, but, of course, someone from the southwest would probably want to work up the pattern a little differently. This is perfectly understandable and I have no problem with that whatsoever. What . . . you want to add a bow or tie on a special embellishment?? Be creative!! Isn't that what it's all about?? And, finally, what you sell the basket for is your own decision. I, for one, am ready for us to move off this topic and on to other things. WW is not fun to read when your stomach is tied in knots at the end. Happy weaving everyone . . . and be creative!! Judy Richmond Spates "The Judy Richmond Collection" JSpates@hope.gordonc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:42:39 -0500 From: Char Braun To: David Collins References: 1 Hi Everyone, I unfortunately don't have enough time or skill (!) to actively participate in Weavers Words, though when there is something that I can help with I do try to write in to WW or the person requesting info. I have always enjoyed getting the newsletter though at times I am a bit behind. Well, after getting caught up and sort of wishing I hadn't. I'd like to ask writers to stop and think a moment before they hit their send key. Much has been said re the Pam/Di posts (as well as others in the past) and it saddens me when there are so many comments that are made that I sincerely doubt would have been if the people they were directed to were standing right in front of them. I think we sometimes get caught up in the "drama" and forget that real people with feelings, businesses, family & friends are at the other end. To make Weavers Words a more enjoyable reprieve from the real world which can be nasty enough, please ask yourself the following questions before you send in a post. Is this the best way for me to get my opinions expressed...in the open forum or would a private note best suite what my goals are? Are my goals honorable? Would I be willing to say what I have just written (exactly as I've written it) to the person directly to their face while they are standing in front of me? Does what I have to say help clarify an issue? Answer an honestly asked question? Am I just venting? None of this is to say that we can't ask challenging questions, raise issues, and disagree with one another and there are going to be times when the best that we can hope for is to agree to disagree. However we should be able to do this in a way that lifts each other rather than drag them down. All of this is of course just my opinion but it would get me back to reading Weavers Words with a happy heart. Thanks, Char -- Char Braun TOP Artist Madison, WI charsart@chorus.net %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Weaving and Shops in Wisconsin Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:45:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Kathryn M Gomm To: David Collins For the weaver who was looking for shops and classes in Wisconsin, sorry about not responding sooner. In my case, it was "Oh, someone else will reply" so I didn't. Oops! ;v) I'm sure there are more shops than I will be mentioning, but they're the ones I know about. Since I live in the Milwaukee area, the local ones that I know about are: Art Trends N87 W16458 Appleton Ave Menomonee Falls, WI 53051 Basket Boutique 3000 Beechwood Industrial Ct Hubertus, WI 53033 The Basket Shop 17700 W. Capitol Dr Brookfield, WI 53045 If you are going to be in the Milwaukee/Waukesha area the weekend of April 30 through May 2, the Lake Country Basket Guild will be hosting its annual BasketFest that weekend. As of this point, I believe that most all of the classes are filled, but we have a "Basket Boutique" area that will be open to the public for free on Saturday. There will be several area and national basketry vendors in attendance, so if you're available, take advantage of it! BasketFest is held at the Waukesha Area Technical College in Pewaukee, WI. Hope this helps! Kathryn Gomm Milwaukee,WI %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Welcome Jennifer! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:54:15 -0700 From: "Kelly Anderson" To: "David Collins" Hey Jennifer, welcome to Weavers Words. I'm impressed that with two cherubs under age three that you can find the time and energy to weave baskets. An "L" basket is a Longaberger basket. Stowe looks like a great convention this year--wish I were going, but it's at the top of my must-do list for next year. Hope you and your friends have fun and share with us all when you get back. Kelly %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: RE: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:01:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Judith Spates To: davidc@iei.net To Lois in Hawaii: You mentioned that you stained the N.E. Tote Basket base frame (base and handle) a dark walnut and then restained the entire basket a lighter shade once the basket is done. I do this a lot on my baskets and people in my area love the way the finished basket looks. I think it gives the basket such a "rich" look. I also like your idea of painting the handle before weaving the basket. I'll have to try it. Regarding overlapping: I always overlap 4 stakes when making my larger designs (Classic Round Basket, New England Quilt, etc.). Larger baskets actually need the 4 stake overlap in order to make them sturdier (I always avoid overlapping on the handle). When I'm working on smaller baskets, I usually overlap 4 stakes on the first and second row only. All other rows I overlap 2 stakes. Judy Richmond Spates JSpates@hope.gordonc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Bits and Pieces Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:51:00, -0500 From: BDKE97B@prodigy.com (MRS BILLIE A DORRIS) To: davidc@iei.net David, your information on the word/s a lot is quite interesting. For some reason that is the one word I see misspelled everywhere than any other I know. When I was in high school (back in the dark ages) I had an English teacher who explained that it is two words and for some reason it stuck with me (one of the few things). Virtually everyone I know uses it as one. It is fascinating some of the words spell check doesn't accept esp. those that it will only recognize with a capital. It doesn't want to accept my name spelled with an ie instead of y, and Dorris spelled with 2 "r"s is certainly beyond it. Some day I'll get around to customizing it for my name at least. Lois, will wonders never cease-I actually agree with you (grin) it must be a first. Thought your reply was well thought out and not offensive. About the boat: if it's the one I saw at convention I think you'll like it. Suzanne Moore had them. Although it is really my kind of thing I thought it was original and had possibilities. If I remember right it was an "oval" shaped piece of wood that hung flat against the wall with wood seats/shelves. the sides are then woven like a basket. It was a fair size but I'm not sure of the dimensions. Haven't seen a picture of it anywhere on the web. Do believe Suzanne sold a ton of them and was sold out before the weekend was over. Should be paying bills and/or weaving instead of being on the computer.So... Billie in sunny but still cool Va. Beach %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Weavers Words Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:54:23 -0400 From: Judith Olney To: davidc@iei.net <> Mary, would it interest you to know that several years ago while I was lurking outside the Northeast Basketmakers Guild basket day in Sandwich, MA an English couple exited. "Oh," they said, "This is very interesting. We don't have anything like this at home." But they do! This couple just happened upon us because we have our event at Heritage Plantation. They could have happened upon the BA sale just as easily "at home". You can narrow your chances of happening upon basketry in England by having me check the Basketmakers Association newsletter for you. Email me and I'll tell you what's going on. The BA seems to be very active these days. There are workshops all over the country...exhibits, too. You just have to be in the right place at the right time. XXOO JOlney %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Fwd: gas out April 30th Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:48:14 -0800 From: "moonweaver" To: davidc@iei.net Someone sent me this and I think it's a great idea. THE GREAT "GAS OUT" It's time we did something about the price of gasoline in America! We are all sick and tired of high prices when there are literally millions of gallons in storage. Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when no one purchased any gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The so-called oil cartel has decided to slow production by some 2 million barrels per day to drive up the price. I have decided to see how many Americans we can get to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. All we need is a few million to participate in order to make a difference. Let me know how many you will send out. We CAN make a difference. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: RE: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:38:39 -0500 From: Dianne Gleixner To: "'David Collins'" I finally have a change to respond and want to do so before I forget. David, I got a little chuckle from your spelling of potato. In my experience of using the spell checker, I have to remember that it doesn't catch everything, but your example was a new one. Jenn F-I was thinking the same thing you wrote about selling baskets at fairs and shows that you had made from someone else's patterns. I admit that I am not very familiar with all the legal aspect of copyright and such, but it never dawned on me to contact the pattern author to get permission to make and sell their basket. I would never tell someone it was my original design, just that I had woven the basket. It's also my experience that I'd rather sell 10 baskets for a little less than I probably could get for them, than to have people look but not buy because they thought that the price was a little too high. Maybe this is the same thing that Pam F is thinking. If they feel that they can sustain a business charging the prices they do, then they ought to be able to do that. If the Langston's feel they have a better quality product and charge more for that, then I'm sure they will find the right people willing to pay their price. I guess it all comes down to everyone finding their own spot in this business and to be able to operate in a manner they feel comfortable with. Lois in windy Hawaii - I always overlap 4 at the end of each row. I feel this will give a sturdier basket. The only time a overlap only two is if I'm working on a small basket with only a few spokes on a side. Since I don't like the overlap to extend into a corner, I only overlap 2. I also agree with your questions regarding "redesigned patterns and/or bases", they shouldn't be sold or advertised as original designs if they aren't. Gretchen - congratulations on you land purchase, my husband would be envious. With your 3/8" pieces, maybe you could make a smaller basket with a wood base. Otherwise I usually save my smaller prices for when I have just about enough to finish a row of weaving and run out. There will be two overlaps in the same row, but if it's done carefully, no one should notice. Also, I live just west of Milwaukee and know of only a couple basket shops around the area. One is in Brookfield, it's called the Basket Shoppe. Their address is 17700 W. Capitol Dr. in a quaint little shopping village called Stonewood Village. It's a smaller store where they sell supplies and also a variety of finished baskets as well as other little gift-type items. I don't have a current list of classes but their number is 414-790-9166 Maybe you can call them to find out. Another is farther north in Richfield (about 20 min or so north of Brookfield) it's called the Basket Boutique. I'm at work and I couldn't find it listed in the Internet directory. I'll try to remember to look when I get home and get more info to you. If I remember correctly, you were going to be a bit further south, so this may be out of your way. Plus, I've never been there, so I can't tell you what it's like, I do know that they do have classes. Kathy F - my suggestion on how many basket to bring to a show is whatever you can get done! In my area, I've found I sell more smaller baskets than larger ones, but I'm sure it varies. I recommend that you find out what size table or display area you will have, and set up a demo booth in your basement or somewhere. You want your area to look "full". I don't know if you'll ever come up with a good, specific number. Remember, if you have too many you can always keep them aside and fill in as things sell, but unless you want to take special orders, can't add more it you don't have them. Make sense?! Leslie - you said it better than I did. Joy - thanks for lending your expert legal information. Jennifer - Welcome! How do you find time to weave with "2 cherubs" under age 3? An "L" Basket is a (SHHHH) Longaberger Basket. Good luck in your show. One last comment for now on the pattern controversy. Even if I put a note on my basket tag stating the pattern name and the author, how am I to know that this is an original pattern by this person. How do I know that this person didn't "copy" another pattern, maybe with slight alterations, and pass it off as her own? I don't really think there is a quick or easy way to solve this problem. If you sell patterns or baskets, or even supplies, there is a chance that someone will try to copy you. You have to be willing to take that chance, or stay out of the business. Nuf said for now. Dianne, in sunny and getting warmer southeastern Wisconsin %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: WW Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:01:21 -0400 From: "MYLOIS@PRODIGY.NET" <"MYLOIS@PRODIGY.NET"@prodigy.net> Organization: Prodigy Internet To: davidc@iei.net To All: Much has been lost over the latest "ROUND" in Weaver's Words that can never be reclaimed -- namely trust and the wonderful comraderie we shared. How sad. People, let's get our focus back. Myra %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:39:26 -0400 From: Carty To: David Collins References: 1 I was told a story once that it was the spider that taught the grandmother how to weave baskets. So think twice before you kill that spider that is living in your workshop. I told my husband that I was going to get a tattoo of a spider on my ankle. Maybe in a nice egg basket! And I still say an egg basket is an egg basket and a market is a market. Hope everyone is getting ready for a wonderful spring. Hope to some of you at the Basket Exhibit this weekend. IN PEACE njweaver2 Mary Carty from sunny south Jersey. http://www.pinelandsfolk.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 111 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:15:11 -0600 From: "Karen" To: "David Collins" References: 1 Hi all! I have been making notes on the location of wisteria vines this Spring. It's only when they are in bloom that they are easy to identify. I imagine that they can be pulled for weaving anytime of the year, but that's about all I know about using wisteria. Do I have to let it dry first, then soak it before using it; or do I use it green? I also remember something about boiling it to remove the bark?, I think. How long do I boil it. Any information and any shared experiences will really be appreciated. Hope everyone is doing fine this wonderful Spring season. I have just started a full-full-time job, and I am going to have to really hunt for basket time. By the way, the basket pictures on the page are just gorgeous. What talent the Lord has given the members of this List. Karen in Georgia where it has been cooler and windy. Where's my flannel shirt? %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:15:13 -0400 From: "Mary Hooper" To: "David Collins" Naomi: I wish I had time for a retreat in the mountains. If I ever get a little time, I'll check on the possibility of setting something up at one of our retreat centers. When I do I'll post a WW notice and see how much interest there is. I was pleased to see that a "bash" was held with 30 attending. Surely we can get that many weavers, especially with a new guild forming in northwest Tennessee. Is a shave pony the same as a shaving horse? To shave my rims I put a block of wood on the shave horse, put the rim reed on top and clamp down on the reed. The extra height the block gives me seems to help with control as I trim with the drawknife. Then I trim with my Swiss army knife (best Xmas gift I received that particular year) and sand the edges smooth. When I sell more than I spend in the basket area I'll be investing in one of John McGuire's rim cutting guides--forget right now what he calls them. I am thinking of raising my basket prices, not lowering them, to make more sales. If things come too cheaply some people don't appreciate them. Other people equate higher price with higher quality. The second lot are the ones I want coming to my booth. I sell a few wholesale and the price one retailer gets for some of my baskets makes me take a deep breath. It's not astronomical, but it's high enough for me to realize that I'm not doing myself any favors by underpricing myself. If she can get that price, so can I. But, these baskets are made without benefit of patterns, except for one instruction book that tells which spoke goes where, as I hardly ever can remember. My understanding is that one can copyright the expression of an idea, but not the idea. Isn't it customary for pattern writers in other fields to include a notice that a pattern is published for individual use and not for producing goods for commercial resale? Maybe those who don't want their basket designs used for making goods for resale should state so on the pattern. That would clarify the situation for the rest of us who wish we had a copyright/patent lawyer to consult at this point. Does anyone have the number for Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts? We could, perhaps, get a legal opinion. Other than that, maybe we could go on to other topics? With all best wishes, Mary Hooper, where the weather has gone from summery to cool overnight and the winds continue to blow, but the forest fires haven't started here yet in this part of the WNC mountains. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: misc. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:02:50 -0400 From: "Angie Longenecker" To: "David" Hi all, Kati - Thanks for the compliment on our site! We work hard on it and are changing and updating it constantly. Judy - Rhuligel can be found in most drug stores - I got mine at CVS in Kutztown. Angie in PA The Country Seat http://www.countryseat.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: bits and pieces Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:51:21 EDT From: DebGring@aol.com To: davidc@iei.net Hello everyone, Hope all are well and as happy as can be. Just a few notes to add in this time. Someone asked about using power tools and where we weave. I did not use a power tool until just this year and love my nice smooooooooooth rims, but with increasing age, previous carpel tunnels and chronic tendinitis, have found sanding to be difficult at times. They (the Mouse and the dremel tool are working out well.) I have a small 6x12 room my husband and I built in the garage. My reed can truly reach out and touch me, which it does with regularity! I too use a shureform shaver for my rims and definitely while dry, not wet! Also bought a small hand planer a few weeks ago and after getting it adjusted correctly, works well. I have a quilters matt on my table/bench in my room and that protects the table surface. My room is great, however I am casting my covetous eye on my son's room when he moves out, as I do not have water in the garage....... I think (my mind is not as sharp as it used to be, but am pretty sure I did send this!) I remember sending my name in for the swap going on, but have not heard anything about it.....I see others are readying baskets etc, but I haven't even gotten a name/address yet...... I think that the problems being discussed should not be going on in this forum. Private e mails/conversations would be the best for all concerned. This is something they have to talk out themselves and all of us getting into it will not help. I had the pleasure of meeting Joan Culler this weekend at Sauder Farm and Village as there is a new guild beginning there. She was very organized and on top of everything! We had a wonderful time, most of us stayed for lunch and talked and talked and talked. I for one did not want to leave. I've not been in a guild before this year so this is a new experience for me. Oh, Lois, you mentioned overlaps, I almost always do 4 spoke overlap, I have been just short several times and done a 2 spoke overlap without problems until the last time I tried it, well the row kept comming undone with manipulation......I sure was disappointed. So I do 4 overlaps now for sure. Take care everyone, happy weaving! Debbie Gring in NW Ohio, cool, but pretty today, still waiting for a bit warmer weather (in summer I'll be gripping about the heat so.....bear with me!) :>} %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Weaver's Words Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:52:59 -0400 From: "joym" To: Hi Everyone! The last issue was really something. Though I haven't tried David's Search feature on the WW webpage, I'd suggest anyone wanting to see earlier discussions about copying, copyright or patents check it out. It's clear that a number of us have questions and concerns about copying that indicate a need for some basic info. I think anyone selling baskets or patterns should do some research on the laws that govern crafts/utilitarian objects (which includes baskets) OR talk to a lawyer. The laws that govern Fine Art are NOT the same, and give broader protections. I did research and it was invaluable, but I'm not a lawyer, so this is my interpretation from reading: Copyright: Know this, when you copyright a pattern YOU ARE ONLY PROTECTING THE WRITTEN WORDS AS THEY ARE WRITTEN, not the design (shape, color, materials) used. So, to infringe on a copyright you have to copy the written words exactly, or near to exact & resell them. If someone copies, it's up to the copyright holder to take legal action to stop them. If you buy a pattern, make the basket & sell it you are NOT infringing on anyone's right unless, perhaps, they also have a Design Patent. This also goes for different shaped bases or handles, regardless of who thinks they came up with the idea first (always debatable). Design Patents: Are only issued for designs deemed to be very unusual in appearance or function. MOST utilitarian objects are not eligible, though a few may be. It costs several hundred dollars to submit for a Design Patent. When you obtain a Design Patent, you are protecting the basic SHAPE of your creation. You are NOT protecting what it is made of, it's color or combination of weaves so, it's STILL limited protection. It seems like some of us would like to claim protections that the law simply does not give us. Certainly, I can understand this desire, as I've designed originals & written some patterns. But, I think before we accuse someone of infringement, we'd better be sure of the facts. When you buy a pattern yes, you can make the basket & sell it without permission. You are NOT required by law to print the original pattern writer's name on your tags or to formally acknowledge them. You are NOT required to adjust your price to theirs (yes, this is price fixing, also illegal in a free market economy). You can make changes & sell the basket. But, when you change the WRITTEN PATTERN only slightly & re-print/sell it as your own, you're entering a danger zone. Hope this helps clear up some of the mass confusion! Joy at Sign of the Crow in Hampden, Maine http://www.signofthecrow.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: questions and answers Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:11:20 -0400 From: "Gail Caron" To: "David Collins" Hi David and everyone. Im just going to write a quick post to answer some questions that I think I read here as well as to ask one. To Helen who asked about the bicycle basket inventor - I assume you are asking who wrote the pattern for a bicycle basket. Although I have since seen others, the first pattern I remember seeing is the bicycle picnic tote by Elena Olivieri. To Jennifer: By now you have probably figured out that an "L" basket is a short way of referring to a Longaberger basket. It takes too long to type out the whole name and we probably never spell it the same way twice anyway. To Denise Beck: Your natural baskets are beautiful. I am very interested in the cherry bark gods eye on your melon basket. Could you explain how you harvest, store and prepare the cherry bark? I have a small cherry tree that needs to be cut down and would like to try to harvest some bark but have no idea how to do it. I have been told to harvest in the spring (which is now?) but that is all I know. Thanks for any help you can give. Well, I'm off to run errands and mail the taxes (Damn thieves). Gail Caron in southern NJ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: "Weavers Words" V. 2 I. 112 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:39:22 -0600 From: "Karen" To: "David Collins" References: 1 Well, I'm off work today, and just got up early to read my WW's. As most of you know, I am self-taught and pretty new to basket society (this list and any contact with anyone about baskets). I am in the process of trying to expand my horizons from just kudzu baskets, to kudzu baskets and other baskets. I have never purchased a pattern for a basket, and I gotta tell ya'll, I'm thinking right now, that I never will. I am not a creative person, but think I have my own style. I am studying some books from the library on different weaving techniques, and think I'll just get or buy material that I like and build a basket as the weavers want to go. Maybe I'm ignorant, but maybe I'm just confused by the recent discussions. If I see a basket in a book that has a neat color combination, like cream and purple, am I infringing on someone else, if I use that combination? I originally thought when Di had her say, and then Pam responded, that it should be left alone, over, done, forget it. But now, after reading this last issue of WW, I strongly feel that we need to get this clarified. For those of us that are new to basket society, we gotta get some of this cleared up. Are there any things that we can agree on? One, I think from what I saw today, is that if you use a pattern, you credit the author. OK, and if you use a pattern but alter some thing, can't we say that the basket is based on a pattern by X? Come on the rest of you, let's see if we can't delineate some rules that we can live by, or at least define exactly what we disagree about. Kudzu Karen in Georgia where the daffodils are mostly gone, the wisteria is turning brown and the pollen count was over 6,000 the day before yesterday (extremely high is usually in the hundreds!!!!!) Oh, one other thing. Most of you probably saw the big fire we had in Atlanta and that courageous rescue of the crane operator. You need to know, and tell everyone that the City of Atlanta, only pays its firemen about $20,000 or so. They wanted a raise this year and the Mayor of Atlanta was real nasty to them, and in the end, they only got a $400 raise. To any of you out there with firemen in the family, you should be very proud of them. I think the firemen finally earned some respect down here this week, and suddenly the mayor is talking about a bonus for them. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: BASKET CONTROVERSY Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:22:04 -0400 From: "robert n sykes, jr" To: davidc@iei.net I just want to add a few comments to all this controversy over baskets. It saddens me deeply to hear all this "arguing" we basketweavers are engaged in. All of us are in this business because we enjoy weaving, designing, teaching; all of it. I have met Diane and Jim and I think they are very special people. I have never met Pam, but she seems to be just as special; just as nice. In the few short years that I have been involved in basketweaving, I have never met a more sincere and friendly group of people! The designers I have taken classes from as well as the ones I have just talked with at conventions and other gatherings have been very helpful and willing to give of themselves and their ideas. I have made so many friends from all over the country through basketweaving and WW is the best avenue I've seen for expressing our ideas, concerns, tips, advice, etc. I would hope that everyone would be respectful of others and try and remember that we "should do unto others as we would have them do unto us". So, let's get back to the "fun" part. Okay? Robbie in warm NC. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: misc. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:18:16 -0400 From: "Angie Longenecker" To: "David" Hi all, Lois - I always overlap 4 spokes. I agree, it makes the basket stronger. I know production weavers who overlap 2 and use more than one piece per row, but that's not for me. Patterns: When an author writes a pattern for resale - the basket should be the authors original idea. When a book is purchased with patterns in it (for baskets or anything) it usually says right in the front that these are the author's original ideas and may not be reproduced "in quantity" for resale (I think quantity is the key word!). A pattern is the same thing. Can anyone stop people from reproducing and reselling their original idea -no. I've seen one of my baskets sold by someone else. It had been changed slightly, but I could recognize it. I've never confronted the person and won't. I don't like it, but I took that chance by writing a pattern. There are prob may more baskets out there from my patterns that I don't know about. People ask me for patterns for my round reed work. I won't write patterns for it because they are my pride and joy and I don't want to see them done by other people at shows. If they look at it and go home and try it - nothing I can do, but it won't be exactly like mine. Pam Woodbury - your post on this subject was great. Gail and others who credit the designer of a basket - Thank You! It doesn't matter who's pattern it is, I think that's great. It's people who try to pass off someone else's idea as their own that bothers me (and I think a lot of others). Giving credit for inspiration or to the author of a pattern is a nice thing to do. --- I don't think that Di's post was flaming or Pam's response or anything that either of them has written since. They had thoughts and shared them. Pam posted here, so Di replied here, nothing wrong with that. No one was nasty or mean. So why should any of us be nasty or mean. Let's just express our opinions with thought and consideration for each other. Please, don't bash Pam or Di. Angie in PA where everything is blooming. The Country Seat http://www.countryseat.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: PATTERNS Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:45:13 EDT From: ZOHE@aol.com To: davidc@iei.net I am perfectly agreeable for people to sell geese they have made from my patterns - it might even increase the interest in them, especially if they vary the design over time. Think how wooden decoy duck collectors like to collect different carvers. They might boast they had a Harradine Western Swimmer and a Macomber Nene Goose, (add your name and model here) Hopefully, in ten years time we will see them being auctioned for high prices on Ebay! They are also entitled to teach geese from my patterns, hopefully when they become expert, but would like it known that I am happy to travel and give workshops. Conventions have such large classes I am considering team teaching if I apply for another. On another subject, all you cat lovers. If you have one of those twenty-year-old felines who is flourishing, could you please tell us what kind of food he has had all his life. Our cat is 15 and getting fussier and fussier. He likes variety, especially the contents of those tiny expensive cans. One week he likes seafood and shrimp, but won't look at it now. Yes, I do cook chicken for him and give him small helpings of dry food. If I don't fuss over him he won't eat and gets thin. He was rescued as a large kitten by my friend climbing up and removing him from a balcony where he was tied semi dangling with a string round his neck. He is an indoor/outdoor cat celebrating his fifteenth birthday. Many thanks, Diana Macomber %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% If for any you would ever like to cancel your subscription, simply send me a message with "unsubscribe" as your subject.