This page could easily be called 'Counter-Counterarguments', since everyone
I asked said the same thing: "It didn't make any sense."
Ryan’s retorts to what he thinks are the reasons people support Asuka/Shinji
(Even though he came up with most of them himself while simply ignoring points
he couldn’t dispute), and my retorts to them.
Okay, I wanna start by asking Ryan, who the hell came up with these pitifully
weak Asuka/Shinji comments? Probably you, while completely avoiding the real
ones...
Episode 8:
-Shinji peeks in on Asuka while she's changing. Retort:
Asuka had just dragged him off for apparently no reason,
then taken cover and started making several rustling noises. He
wanted to see what she was doing that was making so much noise.
I concur.
-Shinji rides with Asuka in Unit-02’s first battle. Retorts:
Didn’t Shinji look silly in that girl’s plug suit? I bet you
Asuka was quietly laughing at him when she saw him wearing it.
Asuka says herself that Shinji is coming along so he can get
a first-hand view of her piloting abilities.
You’re forgetting that Kaji told Asuka of Shinji’s phenomenal first sync
and battle. Asuka has something to prove to this boy who could be her
equal. Sure, she’s testing him, but would she ever choose a weakling?
Episode 9:
-Shinji and Asuka were in the synch training together. Retorts:
So?
The series was due for some comic relief. Wasn’t it funny as
hell when you heard Shinji (wimp) would have to live with Asuka
(fireball) for days?
Funny, yeah. But Misato isn’t Director of Ops for nothing. She was
planning something from the get-go, especially since she was privy to
both Asuka’s and Shinji’s pasts.
-The almost-kiss on the night before the 7th Angel. Retorts:
1.) A big part of the series is Shinji's search for affection.
Here is an attractive female who has almost literally thrown
herself at him. Any male in his position would react the same
way.
2.) There's also the ego thing. Asuka's constantly putting him
down. But Shinji felt that if he could kiss her, he could feel
like he'd one-upped her in that respect.
3.) This scene was also to show that, although Asuka tries to
act mature, she is still a kid (she calls for her mama).
You’re forgetting that this scene also forces Shinji to look at Asuka
in a new light. She’s not just this loud, outspoken, and oh-so-frustrating
prima donna. She’s real. She has emotions and feelings and he can’t just
safely label her as an object anymore. It would have been so much easier
to steal a kiss from a stereotype, a thing. But now, once more, Shinji
feels guilty and is more than a little mad at himself for it. It’s not
much, but it’s a start of a longing of some kind and an understanding.
Episode 10:
-That little thermodynamics lesson by the pool. Retorts:
1.) Asuka is showing off, saying that she's gone to college,
i.e. she is smarter than the supposed pilot prodigy.
2.) She's teasing Shinji, trying to get a reaction out of him
(hence why he's "boring" when he closes up). Misato's the same
way.
3.) She's also trying to keep herself the center of attention.
Note she calls out to Shinji right after his attention shifts
to Rei.
Oh, definitely yeah, she’s asking for attention. But it’s still flirting,
plus she’s trying to get him to join her in the fun.
-Shinji saves Asuka when she plummets into the volcano. Retort:
Shinji might not love Asuka, but that doesn't keep
him from being nice to her. He couldn't just stand by and
watch someone he knew fall to their slow, horrible death.
Sure he could. He was going to let them send Rei off in Unit-01 until she
got even MORE banged up and started bleeding everywhere. Shinji HAS to
care, because he actually has incentive to let her drop. He gets his room
back, all the frustration goes out of his life, and no one would be there
to pick on Rei. But he saves her anyway, earning something that may be
some respect for the time being.
Episode 11:
-Shinji looks forwards (and up Asuka's dress) while they're
in the vent. Retort:
He had to see where he was going! I seriously doubt he
was thinking about sexual things; with a power outage and an
Angel attack, he was probably just trying to get to his Eva so
he could do his job.
I concur, but… I’ve never seen anyone use this scene as a defense of the
A/S relationship. Probably because it’s such flimsy proof. Now, when they
tumble out of the vent and Asuka lands on Shinji, notice how it’s Rei who
lands on her feet, thus creating a gulf between her fellow pilots and
herself. From the beginning, there’s something different about Rei.
Episode 12:
-Asuka's standing next to Shinji while they're receiving their
orders. Retort:
Check out the order they're standing in: Shinji, Asuka,
then Rei. In other words, the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st Children, all
in order.
Why is this an argument? It’s pointless? Who uses this argument?
-Asuka's tries to see if Shinji and Rei are close. Retort:
More teasing on Asuka's part. She's torquing him to
try and get a reaction out of him.
Yeah, it’s not possible she’s scoping out the competition, is it? Or that
she’s trying to find some logical reason that Shinji doesn’t pay attention
to her the way she wants him to. If the two were going out, Asuka probably
wouldn’t have been nearly as frustrated with Shinji as she was.
Episode 14:
-Asuka talks to Shinji while he's trying to synch with Unit-00. Retort:
She was trying to break his concentration. You think
she didn't know you need to concentrate to synch with an Eva?
She's trying to sabotage his efforts to synch, so that she can
remain the best pilot.
Asuka talks to Shinji a lot. Sure, they live in the same home, but she
talks to him more than any other male in the series. Slowly, she’s getting
close to him. That’s all this is proof of, nothing concrete for either
relationship.
Episode 15:
-Asuka compliments Shinji on his cello playing. Retort:
As I said above, it's possible to be nice without being
in love. In addition, Asuka doesn't play the cello, so she doesn't
feel threatened by watching someone who can play it well.
And a common tool in flirting/courtship is complimenting someone on
something they’re good at. Sure, she’s being nice, but think of how rare
it is for Asuka to compliment anyone. Also, as a college grad, she can
probably tell that Shinji doesn’t have the highest self-esteem in the
world. A compliment would do him good.
-The “I’m bored" kiss. Retorts:
1.) Asuka really was bored. They show that fairly well.
2.) Asuka's been watching Shinji stare at Rei all day, i.e. his
focus of attention has shifted off of her again. She needs other
people to notice her in order to feel significant.
3.) She tries to get him to chicken out, with more teasing as
they close in to kiss. 4.) She gets more ammo to tease him with,
putting him down to feel better about herself.
Um, no. Asuka’s been back from her date (jealousy gambit?) for a while
now, and is probably feeling lonely. She’s also trying to get a reaction
out of Shinji. Make him act more manly or something. No doubt remembering
he tried to kiss her before, not to mention the fact that she’s probably
aware that he looks at her a lot (the Asuka in Shinji’s mind during EoE
reminds him of his… fantasies), she decides to test his testicular fortitude.
Sure, she’s teasing, but that’s also a mask to cover her own nervousness.
The nose-pinching reveals how young they are, but neither pull away for
quite a while. And it’s NOT mentioned again as teasing.
Episode 16:
-Asuka compliments Shinji on being the best. Retort:
She was being sarcastic. She feel threatened by Shinji
passing her record like that.
No shit, Sherlock. Who uses this argument? Do people actually use these
or are these atrocious arguments thrown in to make the overall argument
look weak?
-Asuka sounds genuinely afraid when she hears Shinji getting
sucked into the 12th Angel. Retorts:
1.) Here's one of the few times where we see the nice
person Asuka is. She might feel threatened by Shinji being
the best, but she doesn't wish him dead.
2.) Note that afterwards, when everyone's assuming Shinji is still
alive, Asuka is back to her old self, putting him down for trying
to be the best.
Funny how everything Rei does bears great significance, but when Asuka
shows some genuine affection, she’s just being nice. As for the putting
down, it’s called a defense mechanism. Asuka’s just lost perhaps one of
the only things that made her get out of bed in the morning: her rank as
Number One. She’s suffering from that, on top of losing the only person
she’s ever kissed.
-Asuka’s waiting with Misato when Shinji comes back out
of the 12th Angel. Retort:
She may have been there to be nice, but she asks
Misato if she’s going to punish him. She wanted to see
Shinji, the “number one pilot," get put in his place.
Or, she was actually worried, and being a pain in the ass is great way
to vent from losing and maintain her bitchy exterior so that it didn’t
look like she cared. Asuka pushes people away. After being relieved
Shinji was okay, she had to have a convincing reason for being there,
right?
-Shinji calls for Asuka before Rei when he’s being absorbed/been
absorbed by the 12th Angel. Retorts:
1.) “Asuka has less syllables than “Ayanami, pure and simple.
Shinji was panicking, and wanted to get out the shortest name
first, in the hopes that anyone would bail him out.
2.) “Ayanami and “Misato-san have the same number of syllables,
yet he calls for Rei before he calls for Misato. He trusts Rei
more than his surrogate parent.
That, and Asuka’s the more capable pilot. Given a choice of rescuers,
the highly motivated one is the one you want to save you, rather than
the seemingly apathetic one. Aside from that, I fail to see how being
sucked into a Sea of Dirac would make anyone reveal their true romantic
feelings. This is a pretty worthless argument.
-Asuka’s waiting outside the hospital room. She is embarrassed
when she is discovered. Retorts:
1.) Asuka was probably listening to see how Shinji was doing.
Again, she can be a friend without being a romantic interest.
2.) Rei was there, too. My guess is that she was listening to
see just how close Rei and Shinji are (i.e. if Shinji is going
to start ignoring her and spend more time with Rei.)
Again with the mysterious double standard… Sure, Asuka was being nice,
very nice considering how she lost her top ranking and is asking for
punishment. She cares, romantically or not isn’t expressly said, but
it’s evident she does care, and that she didn’t want Shinji to know she
was there (and thusly cares).
Episode 17:
-Touji’s “husband and wife comment. Retorts:
1.) Listen to his voice. He's being sarcastic, teasing both
Shinji and Asuka. He succeeds in embarrassing them in front
of the entire class.
2.) Alright, there’s no denying that Ritsuko said the same
thing about Kaji and Misato, and that those two definitely
got back together. But I don’t follow your logic : you’re
saying that a fourteen year old jock is as observant as a
trained and heavily experienced scientist?
3.) OK, so I said Touji made the comment about Rei caring
for Shinji. The point is Rei AGREES with him, while Asuka/Shinji
DISAGREE with him over his other comment. Get a grip!
Just because two people argue doesn’t mean they’re in love, that’s pretty
much a given. However, they still talk to each other. Wouldn’t you normally
try to avoid a person you argue with, just to save on Advil? Sure, they
live in the same home... but if they really didn’t want to be around
each other, they’d work something out to where there was as little contact
between them as possible. The fact that they continue to argue, that Shinji
stands up for himself (kinda) and that Asuka talks to him (kinda) is evidence
that they both at least want to be around the other person. Otherwise,
they’d take different routes to school, leave at different times, or just
not talk to each other on the way.
And what the hell does Ritsuko know about relationships? Naoko, on the other
hand, said they looked like a cute couple. Ritsuko is Gendo’s meat-puppet
and predicted that Misato and Kaji wouldn’t last. I’d say anything Ritsuko
has to say on relationships should be taken with a grain or twenty of salt.
Also, a ‘thing for Shinji’ is a very vague relationship. It could be
fascination, love, sisterly affection, mothering instincts or stalking for
all we know. Hell, Rei doesn’t even know for sure.
Episode 19:
-Shinji mentions Asuka before he leaves. Retorts:
1.) Asuka was a friend, and he knew she'd probably have
something to say. Note he was relieved when he heard Asuka
didn't want to say anything.
2.) Asuka didn't even ask Misato to tell Shinji goodbye.
Asuka was a friend? If that’s so, then it’s pretty obvious why he didn’t
want to have words with her. First, goodbyes between friends, and I mean
permanent goodbyes, are always difficult. Shinji and Asuka both try to
take the easy way out with personal relationships, so neither one saying
anything, while hurtful, still was better than Asuka possibly asking him
to stay or Shinji being berated by a ‘friend.’
-Asuka mentions Shinji as she goes into battle with the
14th Angel. Retorts:
1.) Shinji's always been there to back her up when something
goes wrong. And by this point, everyone was assuming Rei wouldn't
be able to pilot. She feels a little insecure without any kind of
backup.
2.) She then forgets about Shinji, saying that she can't lose again.
Exactly. Shinji’s ALWAYS been there. Reliable, trusty, FRIENDLY Shinji.
-Shinji is thinking about what Asuka said while he's in the
shelter. Retort:
Shinji is no longer a pilot, so then evac training
would appear to apply to him again. Also, he's probably
wondering if he made the right choice, i.e., is he stupid or not?
He’s hearing Asuka’s voice while having second thoughts and regrets leaving.
No words of wisdom from Rei at this point.
Episode 22:
-Shinji seems entranced by her when she's talking with
her foster mother; he stares while she's not looking. Retort:
Shinji envies her; she has a family (sort of).
At that point, he didn't know that wasn't her real mother.
And Asuka was able to talk so easily with her mother, while
Shinji...well, we've seen how he gets along with Gendo.
But he’s not thinking about her parents. He’s thinking that Asuka is
such a mystery to him, especially when she’s speaking another language.
In other words, his line of thinking is leading him to ask Asuka about
herself. To get to know her. And they almost have a deep conversation,
too.
-Shinji volunteers to go save Asuka while the 15th Angel
is attacking. Retort:
Much the same as with the lava Angel. He's hearing
over the comm that Asuka is literally being killed, and he
can't just stand back and watch someone he knows die.
Not just someone he knows, a FRIEND.
-Shinji tries to talk to Asuka after the 15th Angel. Retort:
Shinji’s a nice guy at heart, and wanted to make sure
she was all right. He’d have been the same way towards anyone
who’d been through that.
Shinji’s a nice guy when it’s the easier thing to do. Like caving in and
doing his studies, or fixing dinner, or letting the penguin take the bath
first. When things get hard, Shinji balks, complains, and tries to avoid
anything people related period. Trying to comfort, for all intents and
purposes, a rape victim is far from easy even for the strongest of people.
Trying to reach out under such harsh conditions takes someone with a vested
interest. A very strong interest in that person’s well-being, especially
if you’re not good with people and there are others readily available.
Shinji tries to comfort reach out to Asuka (proving he does care quite a
bit), but in the end, Shinji ISN’T strong enough for that hard road.
End of Evangelion:
-Shinji is calling for Asuka throughout End of Evangelion. Retorts:
1.) He says himself that Misato and Rei scare him. And we
know that his school friends are gone. Asuka is, quite
literally, the last person he goes to for help.
2.) He wants someone to talk to, and he honestly doesn’t
care who, just so long as they listen and pity him. Hence
the strangulation scene when Asuka doesn’t help him.
It’s true, that Asuka is the only person left to seek comfort from, and
the Asuka in his mind even calls him on it. But you know the phrase
“nice guys finish last?” Shinji’s been living it for about a year,
seeing his relationship with Asuka reach actual friendship and disintegrate
into nothingness. Not to mention the tons of sexual tension she causes him.
THAT’S why he strangles the Asuka in his mind, because he wants her but
wants the relationship to fall in his lap.
Plus, he’s scared of Rei, and Asuka has been one of the only people strong
enough to yell at Rei. She’s fearless and needs her to protect him from
the clone of his mom.
-Shinji goes nuts when he sees the condition of Asuka’s
Eva in EoE. Retorts:
1.) As said above, Asuka was his last resort, the last person
he had any tiny hope of talking to. Judging from the Eva’s
condition, it would seem Asuka is quite dead, or at the very
least stark raving mad from the pain. Shinji has just lost the
last person that could even remotely be termed “a friend.?
2.) Shinji's had to watch a lot of his friends get hurt by Evas.
If you remember, he reacted similarly when he saw Touji in Eva-03's
entry plug.
And yet… he didn’t react even close to that extremely when he saw about
20 Rei Ayanami’s fall to pieces… Also, Touji’s Eva was in pretty bad shape
and Shinji did scream, but he didn’t go bedbug crazy and decide his life
wasn’t worth living.
-Shinji masturbates over Asuka’s unconscious body in EoE. Retorts:
1.) OK, if you think that means love, you are a sick bastard.
2.) If he had any respect for her, i.e. loved her, he wouldn’t
have done that. In comparison, look at his reaction when he
accidentally gropes Rei. He has respect for her.
3.) He’s looking for any kind of comfort he can find. I think
he’s about run out of ideas, by this point.
I love how the argument is phrased to immediately make the reader believe
that anyone who think Asuka and Shinji is a 'sick bastard.' This redirection
is very funny since I doubt anyone would claim that the act itself was done
out of love.
And secondly, if Shinji knew what love was, half the shit in the series
wouldn’t have happened. The masturbation is a result from being pushed
to the brink of insanity and Shinji reading rejection in Asuka’s medicated catatonia. Later it mentions his ‘fantasies,’ and Shinji’s broken down
enough to cross the boarders of reality and fantasy. It’s a depraved
solution to rejection and sexual tension that’s been building since Asuka
arrived.
Respect or disrespect had nothing to do with that scene.
However, just as there are grains of truth in lies, there’s also the hint
of genuine emotions in Shinji’s act, or at least in regretting of it and
subsequent downward spiral.
-Shinji is left alone with Asuka at the end of EoE. Retorts:
1.) Do you think he had any control over that? They were
the only 2 humans in Evas during 3rd Impact, so it makes
sense that they would survive.
2.) He tries to kill her.
3.) Check this theory out.
Did Shinji have any control over Asuka coming back? No. But he chose
to abandon Rei/Lilith/Yui in Instrumentality in order to face reality
again. Asuka controlled Asuka coming back, just like Yui said. That
they return is significant in that they both grew somewhat as people
and are perhaps actually capable of relating to people now.
And that theory’s been proven as crap, thank you very much. In the
movies, Asuka has (at least one!) blue eye at the end. It’s not as
easy to tell, because of the sepia tones and night shading. But they
are blue, and Asuka’s bandages are the exact opposite of Rei’s bandages.
No mix-and-match here, just 100% (well, 90 ~ 95% considering the wounds)
Asuka-Langley Sohryu.
-Asuka is gentle when Shinji’s trying to kill her, touching
his face instead of fighting. Retorts:
Go to the above link. That theory handles this thing
pretty well. Shut UP, Asuka!
Uh-huh, right. I’ve got some bridges to sell you, if you believe that, buddy.
In the end, any real romance in series between Shinji and Asuka or Rei or
Misato or who-the-hell-ever is based on speculation and interpretation.
That’s it. Admittedly, the Rei/Shinji relationship doesn’t work out as
well since Rei’s head was the size of Mt. Fuji and cut in half.
Of importance, though, since most of the arguments for it are based on
some altruistic and romantic motivation on Shinji’s behalf. Shinji is
far from altruistic, in fact, he’s very selfish at times. Certainly
there’s some guesswork involved into rationalizing the Asuka/Shinji
relationship, but the pieces are there, and it’s somewhat logical in its
presentation (disregarding some of the utterly nonsensical arguments).
Neither are definitely involved, but there are hints of interest (some
blatantly stated, others more subtle) in each other. They obviously
never had a romantic relationship during the series or movies, but the
possibility isn’t ruled out for the future.
