BB: ESI do we go our separate ways and form our own company (II) (N0631148)
 
Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:48:25 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc
       New Thread (Part 2)

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:52:47 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >> Docproc, how are things on the salford props doing.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:57:38 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       Please post to this thread not the old one.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:28:13 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       The Count
       THE COUNT>>>ALL

       Sorry to contribute so late to this thread. I have been digesting the
       Biocompatibles statement for last couple of hours. Forgive me if some
       of what I'm saying is superfluous as I haven't had time to read the
       contributions of the last hour or so.

       Bullie, I know it was designed to scare these highly incompetent
       overpaid people to run a better service, but I think, given the
       response, we just may have something here.

       Up to my last reading, I only subscribe for the BB, no-one has
       mentioned one of the major points. This BB is about contributions,
       major and minor. I believe our major contributors to be the best of
       any BB I have read. Yes, I think you Bullie, amongst others, would
       certainly be included in this bunch. I'll leave it to the jury to
       decide if a certain 'fanged' gentleman of the night would qualify, but
       there are plenty of other heavyweight contributors here. Along with
       the less prolific contributors and the silent majority who merely read
       our contributions, we make up a pretty sizeable family.

       If we decided to take our contributions elsewhere, I think it would
       make ESI a 'sadder' place. I think we have the technical knowhow on
       this BB to do some sort of feasibility study. If we are in with a
       chance, and the figures look interesting, you can put me in for a few
       thou'!

       I don't know if this idea could even begin to take off, but I was
       really pissed off last night.

       As you all know, I tend to really hold back on my language. I say we
       scare the living shits out of these incompetent w*nkers, (sounds just
       like my description of fund managers and MMs) and try to take it a
       little further. Let the management of ESI sweat a little.

       I mean, one thousand people contributing an average of £500 a time,
       and there's half a million for starters. Some could contribute more,
       others less. But I think it could be a real goer!

       THE COUNT!

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:30:53 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >> Count, You could interview the young virgins (receptionist etc)

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:33:54 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       As Tromso, has a reading problem, I have reposted his comments
       from the old thread.
 
       From: Tromso
        hswt- This is all very interesting but it seems rather late in the
       day
       to try and setup another ESI like service, when ESI will already be in

       its 3rd generation by the time you could start. As users we only see
       the tip of the iceberg for what must be an awful lot of work by ESI.

       I would certainly like to see what E-trade will be like.

       If the ESI BB is on the same server as the rest of the ESI site, it
       does sound  daft. Is this really true ?

       If you do want to start up another service. I think the best hope
       would be to focus on one aspect only: the Bulletin Board.

       I can imagine having a UK web site, that acted as the central bulletin

       board to all the other internet stock market services. It is worth
       paying for a well maintained quality bulletin board site to discuss
       stocks and shares. You could have both open public discussion areas
       (like HS BB) and a members area people would subscribe to (more like
       ESI BB) The members area would be the well maintained part, with only

       one userid allowed (and payed for via credit card) to stop abuse. The

       site  could then host discussion areas for equities, fundamental and
       technical analysis, investment software, broker services etc. There
       could be members reviews of packages (with members voting for best
       packages). It would be funded by credit card subscription to the
       members bulletin board area. It could also be funded by advertisements

       and could even host support areas for investment packages etc. Access

       would be via web browser, though it should also support an offline
       reader  (like hswt). Some mechanism to enable users to reference news

       articles would help (eg. links to reuters people could put in
       messages). Other services could be added later. Most members would be

       expected to get real time prices, internet trade from other sites.
       This would keep the cost down and make it easy for non-members to
       upgrade to become members.
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:33:54 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       The Count
       THE COUNT>>>GD_ANON

       Ooooooh yesssssssssssssss purlease!

       I'll take them right down to the last drop!

       THE COUNT!

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:34:14 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DW
       Only a part-timer is I, but you've got me all exited, count me in too.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:34:26 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DW
       Only a part-timer is I, but you've got me all exited, count me in too.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:35:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >> The Count, I would warm them up for you if you so requested

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:38:09 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       HAYSTACK
       A point worth noting. Demon internet was started by a group of friends
       who put in some money at the start to get better internet access
       (before the world wide web was invented). It was sold not long ago for
       about £35 million

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:41:14 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Tromso
       hswt- Oops - the trouble with offline readers is that you don't see
       when threads are closed.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:42:12 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Learjet >> DocProc
       hswt-
       Ref setting up a company, I have a dormant one ,has never traded its
       about ten years old, your welcome to use that FOC if it gets things up
       and running.
       Lj

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:54:12 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       lazygun
       shame - you beat me to it lj, i also have a dormant company which
       could be used if necessary.
 

       cheers.

       L.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 13:46:41 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       ButchCassidy
       Is it worth having a word with Ionic who provide us with
       ShareScope?

       Count me in RichardLabo@bigwig.net

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 13:50:20 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       dave b
       Has anyone ever thought of running the esi bb on a server somewhere
       else? Then if their servers fail, at least the bb will keep running.
       This could be done in partnership with ESI - in fact, i'd do it for
       free if i could have 1 banner-ad space on the homepage to pay for it.

       (sorry if i'm going over old ground here)
       Dave

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:01:11 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc
       OK. Changing the topic slightly but sensibly I feel..........

       What have we got against

       1. ESI advertising on their site?
       2. Us advertising on our site?

       Personally, I feel that "business" it what drives everything forward.

       We are thinking about competing with ESI because their service isn't
       good enough because they can't afford to invest (or can they?) or
       won't (or won't they?) because it costs money that they haven't got
       (or have they?). Easy money (Ha!) from doing deals for E-commerce and
       Advertising and Links to other "investment" or information sites.

       Are their practical limitations like the ESI premises. Do they need to
       move somewhere bigger? Why haven't they invested in bigger, better,
       faster, more reliable, more back up and such?

       Would site advertising revenue or site sales commission on ESI link
       related business really help sort things out? If it would why haven't
       ESI done it already? Hmmm?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:09:21 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Paul Harris
       Why is the fact of the incoming E-trade (taking over ESI) is being
       somewhat overlooked here?. How long is ESI in it's current form going
       to be around?. Perhaps what we are witnessing here (ESI) is the gentle
       let down of a system that is going to be obsolete in a month or so?.
       Bet there'll be advertising on E-trade, maybe this the precursor.
       Will E-trade and CS compete, will we benefit from that?.

       What if a seperate site IS set up but E-trade knocks spots off it?.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:10:27 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc
       And.......just to be fair.........From ESI:

       Subject: Service Unavailability Resolved
 
       Date: Thu Mar 4 8:42:39 1999
       From: Customer Support
        As you are aware we have this morning experienced a period
       of server downtime. This was caused by a corrupted file we
       received during the night. Our technical team have now
       resolved the fault and have assured as that no news stories
       have been lost.

       Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused.
 
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:11:37 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       lazygun
       >> bullie,
       if you are collating all the e-mail's etc, i'd appreciate you
       including mine in the list too:

       113422.2324@compuserve.com

       cheers.

       L.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:14:46 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       As a result of this thread, I have had two conversations with Julian
       Costley (CEO)of ESI. Suffice o say he is aware and understands our
       concerns about the current set up.

       Because of the impending tie up with E trade he is not publicly able
       to comment upon future plans.
 

       I will not say any more at this stage, but Julian Costley will be
       making an announcement later on today on the Esi Announcement Section,
       which will report our conversation and agreed strategy, which I hope
       you all find a step forward .

       I will post my response to his announcement later on today.
 

       Bullie
 
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:14:50 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       JimH >> Bullie
       Don't forget me......I'm not going to be the one to turn out the
       lights!!!

       jim@the-halls.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:15:14 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Greg
       Good point, here's mine just in case (you should get the count to lend
       you one of his virgins to collate all that)

       gregw10@hotmail.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:16:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       leica >> Paul Harris
       That's a good point PH.  Does anybody know when etrade is going to be
       up and running?  Perhaps they're no longer investing in the current
       site because all their money is going on a new all-singing all-dancing
       trading site?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:31:58 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       sm >> GD-ANON
       As you have said one can set up the system at low cost, but the
       srevice will be poor. It will be the same thing or worse as the
       present ESI sevice. ESI is unwilling(so far) to invest to improve the
       infrastructure/com. systems/servers. If we are going to do something
       the equipment selected must cater for the demand/the number of users/
       no. of hits etc. -unless of the number of users and the usage is
       limited.
       I was checking on ADSL (www.covad.com), the throughput is 1.5 Mbps but
       as the losses will be high on the twisted pair, the server must be
       located close to an exchange. The other problem would be that, the end
       user will also have to have a router.

       sm

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:37:15 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >>sm , what i said was you could aquire the technical infrastructure
       for around £50k, these figures were calculated on the back of a pizza

       box and were not meant in any shape or form to form part of a business

       plan.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:52:35 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       wildrover >> Bullie
       You rebel, there's ESI with a cosy little number pulling in a few quid
       every month from mug punters (US) and you throw a spanner in the
       works.

       It gets my vote and a few quid if it turns out to be feasible, I can't
       profess technical know how, but I am available for the odd bayoneting
       of awkward customers or competitors if required.

       Cheers
       wildrover

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 15:02:09 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       SHORT SHIFT >> Bullie
       I would love to get involved. Need something to focus my mind since
       selling out at the end of '98
       Will also help to finance if we can assess feasability.
       SS

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 15:12:59 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DILLY >> all
       I'm in.
       dilly49@hotmail.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 15:41:21 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Gomore
       hswt- This is definately a great & viable idea.  I especially like
       Bullie's idea of linking up with a online trading co.  So deperately
       needed here, surely its not beyond the our resources & abilities to
       provide or co-host/finance a really good & 'proper' online trading
       site offering short & long positions,and the rest, at competitive
       prices, like in the US and have a great BB with it.  I don't feel
       confident the E trade is going to provide what is needed here.
        Count me in for this project
       gary@4sure.freeserve.co.uk

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:26:25 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       packer
       hswt- Count me in.

       essarem@hotmail.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:41:57 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >> Bullshare,

       Re: As a result of this thread, I have had two conversations with
       JulianCostley (CEO)of ESI. Suffice to say he is aware and understands
       our concerns about the current set up.
 

       Seems kinda late in the day to me, I think that ESI have walked all
       over us for to long, I am sick of the excuses and none existant
       customer services that eminate from ESI.  I posted a thread a while
       back asked why SLA's cant be introduced, perhaps if ESI had listened
       to its "CUSTOMERS" sooner, than the anger that has built up over this
       period of time could have been resolved.  From a personal point of
       view I would be happy to stick with ESI if they provided me with the
       tools that I need to invest, however as they do not I now feel I have
       to consider other options, As far as i am concerned this BB is my
       office, and like any office when you outgrow it you move on.

       Gaz

 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:48:54 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Julian Costley >> All
       ESI Extends Customer Invitation

       I am very conscious that, in the lead up to our planned new
       information and broking service, we have been giving a lower level of
       service quality than our customers expect and deserve.

       As you can imagine we have enhancements in hand that will
       significantly improve our reliability and performance.  For reasons of
       confidentiality I feel it's inappropriate to share all the details on
       the web and yet I understand that knowing more of the facts would give
       comfort and help to maintain the goodwill we've worked hard to achieve
       over the last few years.

       To solve the problem I would like to extend a personal invitation to a

       small group of ESI users to visit our offices and facilities in
       Cambridge and to see and hear first hand what we have in store.  These

       guests will be bound by non-disclosure agreements but will I'm sure,
       on behalf of each customer, be able to provide ample assurance to
       others that we're well on the road to providing the market's leading
       on-line investment service supported by a comprehensive and highly
       integrated market information service.

       For the event to be credible it's essential that our customers work
       together to select the group.  I will, therefore, leave it to the BB
       to come forward with the appropriate names. Once agreed, Tami Bourke
       our Head of Customer Services Group at tami@esi.co.uk will co-ordinate
       the meeting.

       We look forward to seeing you and making the visit informative,
       reassuring and fun.

       With kind regards,

       Julian Costley
       Chief Executive, ESI & E*TRADE UK Limited

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:53:05 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       lazygun
       well, i guess it's down to nominations for guests. I personally would
       like to visit ESI, since they are only just down the road from me, if
       no-one objects?

       anyone else?

       ( also might be an idea to have a list of q's / issues we'd like
       answers to - albeit limited by the non-disclosure comments made by
       Julian above)

       cheers.

       L.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:53:32 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       I think i will take a day off work for this one.

       gaz

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 16:53:38 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Dangerous
       Well, I'm up for it.

       I'm in Cambridge, computer literate (a software engineer), and I'm
       looking to find a new internet stock broker, now that Stocktrade have
       made their recent changes.

       I think I have a reasonable idea of the pulse of the BB, and would be
       happy to represent fellow ESIers.

       Dangerous

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 17:05:20 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Tim >> Lazygun
       Also just down the road in Cambs and would like to join you. Email me
       at Timj_1@Yahoo.com

       Tim

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 17:10:09 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       lazygun
       >> bullie,

       since you've already been talking to Julian Costley, I imagine you
       would very much like to visit as well.

       If no-one objects, I would like to start a fresh thread with current
       list of nominations for ESI's guests entitled : "ESI visitors -
       nominations/issues"

       cheers.

       L.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 17:12:21 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Viking
       I would be interested in any planned visit and could probably add
       value from a technical perspective.
       andrew.donaldson@unitedkingdom.ncr.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 17:17:38 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Dave S
       Please forgive an aside from the main thrust of this thread, I notice
       that flashing adverts are now beginning to intrude even on the
       stockwatch pages. I don't want a Lexus whatever, and I don't want it
       constantly flashing at me !

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 17:28:16 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       HAYSTACK
       I don't mind adverts. You can ignore them. There are adverts
       everywhere on the internet. We all use Yahoo etc. and see the adverts.
       Like any highway the www has billboards. Seeing adverts doesn't stop
       people from buying newspapers. These 'messages' subsidise the various
       services. The internet will become more commercial and less the
       province of the hobbyist. It is a fantastic vehicle for many things.
       In the long term it will be dominated by business. Even censorship
       will come eventually, like it or not, any ISPs not using censorship
       will not find anyone to connect to as any node they connect to will
       also be excluded.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 18:21:22 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       During my discussions with Julian Costley today, he did say he would
       love to do a presentation to all subscribers, but because of the
       sensitive nature of the proposals prior to E trade commencing, it was
       agreed that a small group of 6 Esi Bbers go and talk to the Directors
       and key personnel to see where they are at!!

       The plan is to visit in the week commencing 15/3/99, the 17th or 18th
       look the most likely at present.

       Much of the work today to get us to the point of meeting with Esi has
       involved much behind the scenes discussion with Esi bbers and grateful
       thanks to them.

       Personally I feel that the visitors must be a fair representaion of
       the board, but mainly have the support of all concerned. What I  am
       sure we don't want and nor do Esi want is visitors going along and
       being sucked into accepting everything that is put before them.
 

       Because of previous issues raised between Esi and the board, I would
       propose Greystone as one of the visitors( he is an IT manager), but
       that must be decided by all you lot. Of course I would like to go ,
       but again its up to you its your board. Thirdly I would like to
       nominate AJB,for many many reasons, but primarily he is a crafty sod
       and a forensic accountant.

       So thats that bit.

       Now for our own Company. How do we go forward. I think in respect to
       Esi and their genuine desire to want to help, it would be wrong to
       continue this topic on their server!!!.
       It is proposed to move this thread, its contents and future postings
       onto a new BB on the BBBugle site. Greystone and his helpers will let
       us have details later. If the idea looks commercially viable, which
       from both private discussions and the public airing, looks now very
       very possible, it would be best to set up a Private Club Bb to take it
       off line completely from the public gaze. Perhaps yahoo or such like.
       The mechanics of all this do not bare thinking about!!!
 

       The visitors  to Esi will be veted first as Esi want to ensure no
       brokers,mms, competitors or media are included.  The visitors will
       have to sign a non disclosure clause.
 

       So what next. Well names and agreement for visitors. Then we will need
       to know what you want asked.
 

       I hope all this is a help, and hopefully at the end of the day we
       should end with a better service for all from Esi and/or  our own
       Company.!!

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 19:16:31 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       boveq
       Wow!!, you go away for a couple of days and look what happens......
       I will always look at something that can increase service, so count me
       in
       boveq@clara.co.uk

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 19:47:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       NODDY
       Count me in
       mike.cleverley@bbc.co.uk

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 20:03:14 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       David House
       Hurrah. me at d1house@aol.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 20:23:09 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       lazygun
       bullshare - sorry looks like i preempted you a bit earlier - i put a
       thread up asking for nominations for the visit. apologies of this was
       a bit premature. your suggestions are good choices.

       however, I would of course still like to be one of the other three
       visitors.

       regards

       L.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 20:44:37 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       This is going to be  mistake I know( i am short of time already), but
       if anyone wants to discuss the various matters mentioned today, in
       confidence, then leave your e mail address and I will contact you..
       Obviously after 17/18 march  I cannot comment about things at Esi that
       are confidential.
 

       bullie
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 20:55:33 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       I should rephrase my posting. If anyone has a point they want to make
       in confidence then leave your e mail. Hopefully later tonight there
       will be a public forum up and running for open topics, courtesy of the
       Bbbugle team.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 20:58:16 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       loss leader
       I'm interested (and Cambridge based) ... at present it is BB rather
       than ESI which is core value for me. I would support it whereever it
       went.

       phewkin@cest.org.uk