BB: ESI do we go our separate ways and form our own company (Ib) (N0630938)

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 10:58:57 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Pesto
       Guys Guys Guys - dont get carried away.

       The sort of information ESI now provide to us for a fee will be
       available for Free on websites in the UK within a couple of months

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 10:59:12 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       kremlinvodka
       Count me in for 10k, However would it not be easier to buy out ESI?
       & look to improve there appauling service.
       I use Prestel on line  whilst in UK as they also supply live FTSE
       index. However this is not available over the internet, hense can not
       use whilst in Russia 9 months pa?
       I have contacted ESI numerous occasions on supplying live FTSE & evey
       time they confirm they are looking into it.
       I understand they can not afford to supply this?
       There seems to be a great deal of interest appart from shares
       pensions, mortgages, capital gains etc. You only have to look how
       popular the recent BTL thread was, so why cant ESI attract advertising
       to pay for a improved service?
       If you look at the moneystore site all the major lenders + insurance
       companies advertise on this site?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:02:31 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       The edge we would have would be as follows (ESI TAKE NOTE)

       Esi provides SPOT quotes only (you click a button and the server sends

       you a quote) which is history by the time you see it on the browser.

       The software client
       -------------------

       By using a true client / server system, we can take advantage of IP
       multicast (i am not going to explain what it is here)

       we could have the following features

       Real time chat
       BB

       Tickers
       quotes
       news
       charts
       Trades (buy's and sells for a specific stock)
       Alerts
       portfolio mangmt

       ALL THIS WOULD BE STREAMING AND IN REAL TIME, PUSHED TO THE CLIENT.

       the more i look at it, the more I like it...

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:05:11 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Mars Bar
       Sounds interesting. Keep me informed. Would be a small investor.
       (justin_hughes@email.com)

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:05:43 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       richkid
       I would be interested in investing in this too.I think we could
       provide a far superior service with many added features.ESI has had
       its chance and has blown it as far as I am concerned.Its not difficult
       in this day and age to be able to provide instantaneous,constant and
       accurate information,yet ESI has consistently failed on all three
       counts and are arrogant and unhelpful when confronted.

       TIME FOR A CHANGE!!!

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:08:42 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc >> Pesto
       "The sort of information ESI now provide to us for a fee will be
       available for Free on websites in the UK within a couple of months"

       That is exactly the idea with the Internet and that site could be  Our
       Web Site!

       Web Sites that get the most hits are the sites that are worth the
       most. eventually we could be doing most of Amazon.coms Investment Book
       sales, etc, etc, etc........! Oh I am forgetting the £b's of other
       E-commerce business.

       Stuff it! Count me in for the whole £50,000. I think a lot of guys on
       this BB don't realise what the Internet is all about.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:10:17 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       PicGuru
       Why not dip a toe in first and set up our own BB. This will achieve
       THREE+ goals:

       1. Generate an income in order to provide for future expansion into
       other areas.

       2. Test the waters of loyaty and the ability to attract revenues based
       on quality alone.

       3. Offload some of the users from ESI so they will provide faster
       access to other features which we may still want.

       IMHO the main reasons ESI is worthwhile (in order):-

       1. The BB
       2. The News items flagged to stockwatch
       3. The fundamentals and graphs.

       Prices can be retrieved from many sites now. Items 1 and 3 ought to be
       easy enough to do. Item 2 is where most of the capital and ongoing
       costs will be incurred.

       gd_anon> did you not just describe something close to myTrack.

       Count me in anyway for a punt on the "Bullex".

       pG.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:10:47 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       gd_anon >> Docproc, Should provide a better yield than our property
       activities.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:11:02 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       gd_anon >> Docproc, Should provide a better yield than our property
       activities.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:11:29 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Viking
       Sounds interesting but 50K is way too low an estimate.
       I work for a systems house which already provides equipment (large
       Data Warehousing boxes) to Reuters so I have a few useful contacts
       and could get pricing on any necessary equipment.
       I think DocProc's idea - buy ESI would be most likely to succeed - why
       reinvent the wheel when you could just grease the existing axels.

       andrew.donaldson@unitedkingdom.ncr.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:11:29 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       richkid
       My email address is Lothianltd@aol.com

       Lets at least have a serious chat about the possibilities and see if
       we can come up with a business plan.
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:12:37 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Floppy
       I agree with leica - 50K is very light!

       An alternative would be to get one of the big hosting boys to provide
       a fully managed virtual service for H/W, Internet backbone connection,
       7x24 support etc., and use the money to continually develop client
       services that will differentiate the proposed organisation from
       providers like ESI.

       I'm inloved in this area of things and believe me, you have to be very
       very serious about the premise and how you ultimately deliver the
       goods.

       I fully sympathise with ESI and the site performance issues - but also
       agree that there have been some missed opportunities - or have ESI got
       something in the wings?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:15:08 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       hotei
       ... and with the general level of dissatisfaction with the CS internet
       dealing service, maybe we could take a pop at that as well ... ;-)

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:16:41 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Jon C
       Count me in.

       Jon C

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:18:40 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       jctseng
       I had a quick look through this long list. I agree with gd_anon that
       the web-based model is fundamentally flawed. I left ESI in Jan, joined
       MyTrack, but decided to pay ESI GBP 25 per month just to get access to
       this BB (I was blind without the BB, the masssive drop in MKS
       persuaded me). Send me an email if anything develops further
       jctseng@dircon.co.uk. I have a few ideas we could develop. I can host
       a separate mailing list or BB to develop these ideas further.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:18:59 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       leica >> Floppy
       "...have ESI got something in the wings?"
       Err, yes E*Trade, and buying them might be a little bit more expensive
       (although at least they are listed so we could start buying up the
       shares!)

       I'd be interested to know what the fully managed virtual service would
       cost - anyone got any ideas?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:20:13 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Learjet
       hswt-
       Great idea, I agree with all posters regarding ESI lack of customer
       care, and their hardware side is as we all well know totally
       inadequate etc. I'm in for the ride.

       <URL:mailto:bandb@hillfarm.u-net.com>

       Just one interesting point, playing devils advocate,  - who are we
       going to blame when our service falls over, as it surely would at
       least once.
       vbrgds Learjet
       p.s a working party could be set up on this BB, we could bring the
       plan together here, cost it, analyse it etc. Don't worry, it would be
       so secure from any competitors, especially ESI - cos they don't listen
       now and why should they in the future ;-)
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:21:52 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       kremlinvodka
       My e mail address is, kvc@dialup.ptt.ru whilst in Russia
       & kremlinvodk26@hotmail.com whilst in UK.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:24:17 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       cannonstrasse
       When you all start up together olease remember to cancel your ESI
       subcriptions as soon as possible to help speed up things for the few
       remaining....like me.   Who was complaining about wasted threads
       recently?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:25:09 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       Well what have I started. I will collate all ideas , emails and
       interest.

       But before progressing anything I would really like to hear something
       from ESi.

       Will keep in touch!!
 

       Bullie

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:27:31 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc >> gd_anon
       I agree.

       The idea would be to make our site the best site by a mile. That is
       the only way it will capture the most hits. The initial investment
       should be designed to have one major objective - merely to capture the
       majority market share of hits to the site.

       Then we start doing the deals.

       ESI are not doing deals and they can't invest enough because of it.
       Hence, look at this thread length and the reaction already!

       Q. Where has Moneybags and the rest of them gone?
       A. To better, more reliably informed sites. Only this BBB held them
       here. However, you can flip within a site but to keep changig to
       different sites the BB "has to go" I reckon. The main thing has to be
       "quality and quantity of information on the site".

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:28:39 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Crocodile
       Croc->Bullie,
       You certainly have started something here ....
       Croc..

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:28:41 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Greg
       E*trade market cap is $5.5 billion, up from £10 billion 3 months
       ago... Makes you think, doesn't it?

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:29:08 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Hokitika
       How about killing our annoyance with CS and the market makers in one
       by setting up our own side-market electronic order book on the
       internet.  The software is not that hard to write, the kit doesn't
       have to be that massive, and we have plenty of expertise right here on
       this bb.  With the bbers placing their orders on this book we'd have
       enough liquidity in our pet stocks.

       We'd even allow shorters too, Bully!!!

       Anyone know the legal ramifications of operating a side market for
       profit in the UK?  Anyone fancy a go?  E-mail me
       john_haywood@yahoo.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:30:43 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Crocodile
       Croc->DocProc
       And remember REDHEAD, told you she had gone as well !
       Croc..

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:34:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       piggie
       >>>> Bullie,

       I have followed you twice in the past (just sneaking at BB's) and have
       done well so far.

       email     <rot.weiller@btinternet.com>    (it's for real)

       When you have collated the info above contact me. I run a subscription
       based IT business in Worcester and would love to take it a little
       further.

       Regards

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:40:35 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Greg
       Sorry,
       meant $5.5 billion up form $1 billion 3 months ago.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:40:37 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       kremlinvodka
       Correction e mail address in Russia kvc@dialup.ptt.ru & UK
       kremlinvodka26@hotmail.com
       Does any one know the market value of ESI?
       Remove there client base (BBs) should be very little????

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:43:39 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Sparky
       Count me in.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:44:35 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       gd_anon >> Docproc, Just think of the potential advertising revenue,
       you could have forums, i.e mortgates, savings, etc and each one could
       be sponsered by that type of company, the benefits will be two fold,
       that only people using the forums would see the advertising and the
       company advertising would only get viewers who were interested in that
       type of product.  By the way I on the property front, just picked up a
       two bed with carparking space in velvet house (sackville street) for
       £82k, its on the top floor and the views of the city are awesom.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:46:41 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc >> Bullie
       It looks like we might need to launch a Company to act as an entity to
       work from, don't you think?

 
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:47:48 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       >> Docproc, Did you sell your salford props.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:51:22 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc
       In the interests of loading time as ESI is so slow this thread is best
       closed so go to Part II:

       <URL:http://www.esi.co.uk/silver/bboard/display.cgi/N0631148.html>

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:54:38 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Al
       Somewhat late compared to the rest of you... let me add my
       enthusiasm and willingness to invest ideas and cash ...

       Surely, the main overriding point is that our attempt would be
       owned by us. Some, presumably significant, fraction of what
       we pay goes to make a handful of people at ESI wealthy, whereas
       we could be spending it on improved  facilities.

       Also, if we have gripes about service, e.g. (mine) not having
       share alerts, or more sophisticated computational/ tracking
       tools, we (I) could write them and we could beta test them
       and then add ....

       I think we'd probably have to run it a year or two before it would
       be worth selling to `outsiders'. Unless, buying out ESI was a
       realistic possibility ...

       Best, Al.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 11:56:41 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       Please post to new thread

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:07:45 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gary.rogers
       For the lowly bronze subscribers amongst us...

       <URL:http://www.esi.co.uk/bronze/bboard/display.cgi/N0631148.html#001>
 
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:08:42 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       HAYSTACK
       A good start would be information only. If we produce a questionnaire
       asking all interested parties what information they would like then a
       new site could start that way. It would be succesful because it would
       contain all the items on our wish lists. Instead of most of us using
       multiple information feeds we would be getting everything from one
       source.

       1.  Real time FTSE
       2.  Real Time DOW
       3.  Real Time Shares (UK & US EASDAC etc)
       4.  Real Time Options
       5.  Portfolio list management and valuation (real time Schwab is
       yesterday closing).
       6.  BB (similar style to ESI)
       7.  News service
       8.  Real time trades access
       9.  Fundamentals
       10. Graphing
       etc.
 

       I am sure that such a site would attract enough subscribers to be
       viable. Once the information site was working then there would be not
       shortage of Brokers wanting a partnership for online trading.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:17:28 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Capt.Bligh
       Me too
       11. Calluna advanced info
       hugh@maggs.com

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:21:05 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       NEL
       Another in. Really getting P'd off with the current speed and frequent
       error messages.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:22:55 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       TechNet >> Bullie
       Great idea, count me in from the start.
       I also have a domain name that will really fit the bill.
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:23:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       gd_anon
       THIS IS PART ONE OF THE THREAD. IT IS NOW CLOSED.

       PLEASE POST TO PART 2 (IT IS A LOT FASTER)
 

       <URL:http://www.esi.co.uk/silver/bboard/display.cgi/N0631148.html>

       *******************************************************************
       *******************************************************************
       *******************************************************************

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:29:46 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Tromso
       hswt- This is all very interesting but it seems rather late in the day
       to try and setup another ESI like service, when ESI will already be in
       its 3rd generation by the time you could start. As users we only see
       the tip of the iceberg for what must be an awful lot of work by ESI.

       I would certainly like to see what E-trade will be like.

       If the ESI BB is on the same server as the rest of the ESI site, it
       does sound  daft. Is this really true ?

       If you do want to start up another service. I think the best hope
       would be to focus on one aspect only: the Bulletin Board.

       I can imagine having a UK web site, that acted as the central bulletin
       board to all the other internet stock market services. It is worth
       paying for a well maintained quality bulletin board site to discuss
       stocks and shares. You could have both open public discussion areas
       (like HS BB) and a members area people would subscribe to (more like
       ESI BB) The members area would be the well maintained part, with only
       one userid allowed (and payed for via credit card) to stop abuse. The
       site  could then host discussion areas for equities, fundamental and
       technical analysis, investment software, broker services etc. There
       could be members reviews of packages (with members voting for best
       packages). It would be funded by credit card subscription to the
       members bulletin board area. It could also be funded by advertisements
       and could even host support areas for investment packages etc. Access
       would be via web browser, though it should also support an offline
       reader  (like hswt). Some mechanism to enable users to reference news
       articles would help (eg. links to reuters people could put in
       messages). Other services could be added later. Most members would be
       expected to get real time prices, internet trade from other sites.
       This would keep the cost down and make it easy for non-members to
       upgrade to become members.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 12:32:49 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       DocProc
       In the interests of loading time and also printing time another thread
       has been started:

       <URL:http://www.esi.co.uk/bronze/bboard/display.cgi/N0631148.html#001>
 

       <URL:http://www.esi.co.uk/silver/bboard/display.cgi/N0631148.html>

                    THIS THREAD IS TOO LONG AND IS NOW CLOSED.

                     ANOTHER  ONE (PART II) HAS BEEN STARTED.

                      PLEASE USE THE NEW THREAD BY CLICKING
                            ON ONE OF THE ABOVE URL'S
                       AND THIS WILL TAKE YOU STRAIGHT TO IT

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:14:53 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       As a result of this thread, I have had two conversations with Julian
       Costley (CEO)of ESI. Suffice to say he is aware and understands our
       concerns about the current set up.

       Because of the impending tie up with E trade he is not publicly able
       to comment upon future plans.
 

       I will not say any more at this stage, but Julian Costley will be
       making an announcement later on today on the Esi Announcement Section,
       which will report our conversation and agreed strategy, which I hope
       you all find a step forward .

       I will post my response to his announcement later on today.
 

       Bullie
 
 

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 14:46:55 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Dusty Bin
       M,

       Nice one.

       Danny.

Date:
       Thu Mar 4 18:23:37 1999 GMT/BST
From:
       Bullshare
       During my discussions with Julian Costley today, he did say he would
       love to do a presentation to all subscribers, but because of the
       sensitive nature of the proposals prior to E trade commencing, it was
       agreed that a small group of 6 Esi Bbers go and talk to the Directors
       and key personnel to see where they are at!!

       The plan is to visit in the week commencing 15/3/99, the 17th or 18th
       look the most likely at present.

       Much of the work today to get us to the point of meeting with Esi has
       involved much behind the scenes discussion with Esi bbers and grateful
       thanks to them

       Personally I feel that the visitors must be a fair representaion of
       the board, but mainly have the support of all concerned. What I don't
       want and nor do Esi want is visitors going along and being sucked into
       accepting everything that is put before them.
 

       Because of previous issues raised between Esi and the board, I would
       like to see Greystone as one of the visitors( he is an IT manager),
       but that must be decided by all you lot. Of course I would like to go
       , but again its up to you its your board. Thirdly I would like to
       nominate AJB,for many many reasons, but primarily he is a crafty sod
       and a forensic accountant.

       So thats that bit.

       Now for our own Company. How do we go forward. I think in respect to
       Esi and their genuine desire to want to help, it would be wrong to
       continue this topic on their server!!!.
       It is proposed to move this thread, its contents and future postings
       onto a new BB on the BBBugle site. Greystone and his helpers will let
       us have details later. If the idea looks commercially viable, which
       from both private discussions and the public airing, looks now very
       very possible, it would be best to set up a Private Club Bb to take it
       off line completely from the public gaze. Perhaps yahoo or such like.
       The mechanics of all this do not bare thinking about!!!
 

       The visitors  to Esi will be veted first as Esi want to ensure no
       brokers,mms, competitors or media are included.  The visitors will
       have to sign a non disclosure clause.
 

       So what next. Well names and agreement for visitors. Then we will need
       to know what you want asked.
 

       I hope all this is a help, and hopefully at the end of the day we
       should end with a better service for all from Esi and/or  our own
       Company.!!