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Yahwists and Datone Debate

Back to Front Page First, dear Yahwist, be it clear: I am not trying to defend the vicous translators.

On the Yahwist's front burner is their rally cry, "names do not change across language barriers." I can prove otherwise.

When my daughter was 18 or 20 months she could say most common household words quite well, yet there was a language barrier. She called her mother "mommy" consistently, but myself; well, believe it or not she called me "mama"! We were mommy and mama-- despite our amused efforts to teach her otherwise. When she was one year old, there was a much more serious language barrier. Back then, the "words" which meant "I'm thirsty" were expressed via a whine and a reaching for the kitchen sink. Back then she called my name by <saying?> WAHHH!!!

Did you know my Maker loves me as<no da> much as I love my daughter? Like her, when I speak to my Father, He hears His name in the appropriate language: "The Spirit helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Because I believe and claim that promise, I know I always use the proper words and names.

When my child called me mama, it mattered nothing. Likewise. As we are "made in the similitude of God/Yahweh," so also our Father knows and loves them that are his-- despite our temporal infirmities, the least of which, I believe, is this "translation" issue which finds us "striving over words."

When I breath I believe I speak my Maker's name. The Comforter translates/conveys what I mean from my heart in the proper language. I see His name written between the lines of any translation of scripture. I see His name in all creation and via His Providence which covers me and my trust every day. I trust He is my REAL Father. When I pray I say, "Please Father." From my childhood, from time to time I would cry out for my Father, "Please Dear God..." I had never heard Him called "Yahweh," but, like it or not, that was who I was talking to! Yes, I know I was thereby calling on the name of Yahweh. But no. You say <but where in the Bible does it say this?> "If you pronounce 'Yahweh' as 'God,' He will not hear you? Who are you to tell the people on this list they are not serving the right God? How is that going to draw them into "one accord"? NOT!

Striving over words. Don't you know the words of God are meat? As you say, some of that meat has been offered to idols. Read 1Co 8. Paul says if it bothers you to eat such meat, don't. Otherwise, we know such gods are false gods and we have nothing to fear from such gods or such meat. "Srive not about words to no profit."(2Tim 2:14)

As Solomon says, "The eyes of the Lord preserve knowledge."(Pr 22:12) The knowledge of God is conveyed in the Spirit of the words. The Spirit of God is not at the mercy of devious translators! The scriptures say, "The kingdom of God is NOT IN WORD, but in power."(1Cor 4:20)

(Datone)
>I don’t understand why the original language is so important to you. In spirit, I agree
with you on every point. But to say one human dialect is more sacred than an other...
You've lost me there. I know, love, and breath my Maker as He is in and with me. He
doesn't wait for me to learn yehbish or whatever language you speak.

(Yahwist)
That is an excellent question and I am happy to have the opportunity to explain. The first
thing is that names do not change across language barriers, they remain the same in
pronounciation even if not in spelling. The important thing is the pronouncement.
Yahweh's Name was first revealed in Hebrew, the language that the Law and Prophets
was originally written in. Some people wish to have a greater understanding of the Bible
which can be done if one studies a little of the original language. Yahweh is the same
Name in all languages.

(Datone)
You say "names do not change across language barriers." I can prove otherwise.

When my daughter was 18 or 20 months she could say many common household words
quite well, yet there was a language barrier. She called her mother "mommy"
consistently, but myself; well, believe it or not she called me "mama"! We were mommy
and mama-- despite our amused efforts to teach her otherwise. When she was one year
old, there was a much more serious language barrier. Back then, the "words" which
meant "I'm thirsty" were expressed via a whine and a reaching for the kitchen sink. Back
then she called my name by <saying?> WAHHH!!!

Did you know my Maker loves me as<no da> much as I love my daughter? Like her,
when I speak to my Father, He hears it in the appropriate language: "The Spirit helpeth
our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Because I believe
and claim that promise, I know I always use the proper words and names.

When my child called me mama, it mattered nothing. Likewise. As we are "made in the
similitude of God/Yahweh," so also our Father knows and loves them that are his--
despite our temporal infirmities, the least of which, I believe, is this "translation" issue
which finds us "striving over words."

Dear Yahwist, when I breath I believe I speak my Maker's name. The Comforter
translates/conveys what I mean from my heart in the proper language. I see His name
written between the lines of any translation of scripture. I see His name in all creation
and via His Providence which covers me and my trust every day. I trust He is my REAL
Father. When I pray I say, "Please Father." From my childhood, from time to time I
would cry out for my Father, "Please Dear God..." I had never heard Him called
"Yahweh," but, like it or not, that was who I was talking to! Yes, I know I was thereby
calling on the name of Yahweh. But no. You say <but where in the Bible does it say
this?> "If you pronounce 'Yahweh' as 'God,' He will not hear you? Who are you to tell the
people on this list they are not serving the right God? How is that going to draw them
into "one accord"? NOT!

As for the nature of Christ. I'm wondering if you believe Yashua was trully a man, like
us, who lived by faith alone. Or do you believe he was both a man and yet,
simultaneously, God or Yahweh(or a God or a Yahweh or a superman)of himself<most
mainline Christians believe this>?

Please. I only have the KJV. And it is customary for me; So in the future when I refer to
"Jesus", you can realize that I mean Yashua, and when I say "God" I actually mean
"Yahweh", OK?

(Yahwist)
The Name Yahweh is the only Name we are to call upon our Heavenly Father. It was
never a different name. If we are going to talk about the Bible we should use Biblical
language whenever appropriate. Understand, "Yahweh" is not Hebrew - it is His Name
just as it was when the whole world spoke one language.

(Yahwist)
There are several prophecies in the scriptures that tell us about the name and the Hebrew
language

"Therefore, wait for Me says Yahweh: until the day that I rise up to judge; for My judicial
decision is to gather the nations and to assemble the kingdoms, to pour out on them My
indignation - all My fierce anger. For all the earth will be consumed in the fire of My
jealousy. Yes at that time I will return to the peoples the pure word so that all of them
may call on the Name of Yahweh, and serve Him with one accord."

"I will visit upon; punish her for the days of Baalim; Lords, Gods, Elohim, and
Goddesses, to which she burned incense. She decked herself with earrings and jewelry,
and went after her lovers; then she forgot Me says YAHWEH. Therefore behold, I am
going to allure her, bring her into the wilderness, and give her understanding; And I will
assign to her there, her vineyards, and the Valley of Achor; Trouble, as a door of hope.
She will sing there as in the days of her youth, as in the day when she came up from the
land of Egypt. And it will be in that day, says Yahweh: that you will call Me Ishi; My
Husband, and will no longer call Me Baali; My Lord. For I will TAKE AWAY THE
NAMES OF BALLIM OUT OF HER MOUTH, AND THEIR NAMES WILL NO
LONGER BE CALLED UPON!" Hosheyah 2:13-17

Psalm 16:1- "Preserve us O YAHWEH! Our trust is in You! We have said to You:
YAHWEH, You are Our Father and our Righteousness! THERE IS ONLY YOU!
Righteous saints in earth are our friends and our delight, and our trust is in You. Their
sorrows are multiplied who seek after gods (elohim)! We offer not their blood gift
(libatation; drink offering)! WE DO NOT SAY THEIR NAMES!"

(Datone)
You are not getting my question here. God is a spirit. They that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth.

(Yahwist)
That's just it. Spirit and truth. And the truth is that His Name is Yahweh. I am much
happier worshipping with that truth. I have never been truly worshipful without that truth.
The Spirit has grieved in me for many years with the common worship. Some wish to
worship Him in Spirit, but they are not worshipping Him with the Holy Spirit because
they hate His Law.

(Datone)
I have, I hope, many questions for you. To start with, the apostle John offers a test by
which I may distinguish the deceived from the authentic:In reference to the definition of
antichrist, the apostleJohn warns us to not even keep company with thosewho believe
Jesus was unlike us(God of himself): "...who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in
theflesh...is antichrist ... whosoever transgresseth(doesnot believe and live the faith of
Christ), and abidethnot in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God... If there come any unto
you, and bring not thisdoctrine, receive him not into your house, neitherbid him God
speed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds." (2Jo7-11)What is
your take on this?I sincerely hope and pray this dialogue proceeds.

(Yahwist)
I am not sure what you mean by "what is my take on it". I take it at face value. The only
that is missing is that not only that Messiah came in the flesh, but began in the flesh. This
qualifier erases the confusion brought forth by those who deny Christ as having presented
Himself before many other cultures and times. There is a book out called "The Sixteen
Crucified Saviors" which sets out to destroy the claim of Yahshua's unique manifestation
in Judea. This doctrine is effectively destroying the faith of pastors and other Christian
leaders. It also supports the idea of the Catholic Pagan trinity doctrine. When you
understand that Messiah did not pre-exist then you can really start winning the fight
against idolatry. The House of Yahweh has a book titled, "Did Yahshua Pre-Exist?".

The problem Yahchanan (John) was addressing wasn't a problem with disbelief that
Messiah came in the flesh - no believer would accept a person saying that Messiah hadn't
yet come - that is far too easy. The deception the apostle was warning of is that Yahshua
was also Hermes, etc. who had come earlier as ethereal Christs and that Christ appears
every so often to men throughout the ages. No, Yahshua began in the flesh 2000 years
ago, and was not manifested before - the source of false religion.

Further questions are welcome. Do you want more scripture that begs us to use His
proper Name?

(Yahwist) ... Clearly the scriptures say not to ever eat food sacrificed to idols, and that
example would apply to words too.

<Datone>
1Co 8. Paul says, "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in
sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol IS NOTHING in the world, and that there is
none other God but one...howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some
with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their
conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: FOR NEITHER,
IF WE EAT, ARE WE THE BETTER; NEITHER, IF WE EAT NOT, ARE WE THE
WORSE. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling
block...if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh..."

<Datone>
"There is NOTHING unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth ANY THING to be
unclean, to him it is unclean."(Ro 14:14)

<Datone>
"All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth eith offence."

<Datone>
In using the customary "God" and "Jesus" references to "Yahweh" and "Yashua," there is
no urging of the people to serve rediculous idols! They do no know that "God" and
"Jesus" ever referred to some idols! There is no conscience thing involved, so there is no
issue here. There are many much more pressing issues. Until Yahwists, pagan gods were
not associated with the words "God" and "Jesus" etc. When I say "God" or "Jesus" to
anyone, they know I am referring to the One and only God and His Son-- that is Yahweh
and Yashua. To say I am not is a rash judgement on your part. "Yahweh" and "Yashua"
are mere words as are "Jesus" and "God." But "The kingdom of God is not in word, but
in power."

(Yahwist)
Basically you are saying that man's tradition overules the scripture. Anyone can learn to
apply the truth and who can't do without another blessing?

<Datone>
No no no. That's the last thing I would ever say. The traditions of men and ignorance of
scripture are the whole problem on earth today-- your translation dispute is not it.

(Yahwist)
Fact is that the customs you are thinking of are considered phooey.

<Datone>
Referring to our language as customary. You are saying that our language<"God" and
"Jesus"> refer to idols. But to me they don't. If to you those words refer to pagan Gods
then I pray you never use them. I wish the translators hadn't made the change, but they
did, and now you and all Yahwists are fixated on, IMO, a rediculous word dispute.

(Yahwist)<...> He was also saying to them, `YOU NICELY SET ASIDE THE
COMMANDMENT OF YAHWEH IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION.'"
Yahchanan-Mark 7:6-9

<Datone>
Where in the Bible does it say God's name is something that can be mis-spelled or
mis-pronounced by men? His name and law are dishonored by lies, fornications, etc., not
by the inadvertant infirmities of men. The mis-translations are my inadvertant
infirmities-- for which my conscience has no concern. Like I said before, I don’t believe
God's name is limited to any human language or word(s). His name glows from between
the lines of scripture. I say it every time I breath. etc.

<Datone>
I didn't offer the names to idols-- EVER.

(Yahwist) Maybe not intentionally but it doesn't matter, you are guilty - at least of
blotting out the Holy Name. As the Bible says - ignorance is no excuse for breaking the
Law. Leviticus 5:15-16 and Numbers 15:27-31 It is still sin.

<Datone>
I hold the Bible in my hand. The Word of God. On/throughout/around it is ethereally
written the name of the one and only God/Yahweh. I cannot blot it out. It is my life. I
am born of Him, His seed of faith remains in me and I cannot sin.(1Jo 3:9) Note the new
definition of sin: "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin."(Ro 14:23) You are caught up in the
letter of the law-- instead of the Spirit of the law which Jesus taught. The letter of the
law is the "vail": "for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading
of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when
Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."(see 2Co 3:14-18)

(Yahwist) I believe that Yahshua was a man. I believe that He lived by the faith, in faith
and in works. He did not live by faith alone, that is evident....

<Datone>
Do you believe Ga 2:16 applies to Jesus? "by the works of the law shall no flesh be
justified."

(Yahwist) I think you did misunderstand. And your definition of sin is not completely
qualified. What is sin?
"Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for SIN IS TRANSGRESSION OF
THE LAW. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him is
no sin." 1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4-5

<Datone>
In Christ, there is another, NEW definition of sin: “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”(Ro
14:23)

<Datone> don't forget the gospel of Christ(Ro 1:16,17)-- the gospel of faith, which makes
such transgression(faithlessness) impossible for any true believer. “His seed(the seed of
faith) remains in him and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God.”(1Jo 3:9)

(Yahwist) Yahshua was not "made sin", He beared the penealty of our sins. If He
"became sin" then His sacrifice was worthless.

<Datone>
Wrong. see 1Co 5:21
"For he(God) hath made him(Jesus) to be sin for us"
Jesus received the victory over all sin by his faith! That is the gospel. He believed unto
death, thus vindicating the gospel and securing salvation for all who would walk exactly
as he walked; and talk and believe, in all things, exactly as he did.

(Yahwist)"For Yahweh made Him, Who knew no sin, to be a sin offering for us, that we
might become the righteousness of Yahweh, through Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

<Datone>
I hear what you're saying. Few people realize that Jesus came to know no sin in a
paradoxical way-- the same way we can. He was not born perfect. He 2:10 says he was
"made perfect through sufferings." Jesus was "made like unto his brethren in ALL
things."(He 2:17) What are we like? "We are as an unclean thing; all our
righteousnesses are as filthy rags."(Is 64:6) The natural human "heart is deceitful above
all things and desperately wicked."(Je 17:9) "There is not a just man on earth that doeth
good and sinneth not."(Ec 7:20)

“Jesus was, ‘like unto his brethren in all things.’ He ‘was shapen in iniquity, and in sin
did his mother conceive him.’(Ps 51:5) His mother, like us, was of her own self, full of
evil, for ‘we are all as an unclean thing.’(Is 64:6) ‘One cannot bring a clean thing out of
an unclean.’(Job 14:4) Like us, ‘...though (Jesus) was a son, yet he was made perfect by
those things which he suffered.’”(He 2:10)

(Yahwist)"I have kept THE FAITH." not "I have kept faith".

<Datone>
I don't see any difference-- "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST."(Re 14:12) So let's
define the faith of Jesus:

<Datone>
This is the device by which Jesus came to "save his people from their sins."(M't 1:21)
Jesus came to save his people from their lack of faith('the lack of faith is sin'(Ro 14:23)."
He taught the law of faith by living it. What did Jesus teach us? This:
• "It is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me."(Ro 7:17,20)
• "Serving the law of sin with my flesh, but the law of God with my mind."(Ro
7:25)
• "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin."(Ro 14:23)

Here are the particulars of the faith of Christ:

• "I can of mine own self do nothing."(Jo 5:30)
• "I speak not of myself."(Jo 14:10)
• "I am not here to do my own will, but the will of He who sent me here."(Jo 5:30)
• "I am in the Father, and the Father in me. The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me; he doeth the works

"Contradiction" vs. "Paradox

(Yahwist)
First let me say that you are doing well in keeping to what your Bible teaches. However
your Bible translation is indisputably in error, and so therefore you are keeping those
errors well. I am setting out here to correct those points in your translation that have been
mistranslated. I am sure you have noticed (if you are honest) that your Bible contradicts
itself.

<Datone>
“The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the
transgressor.”(Pr 22:12) Either you believe it or you don’t. I believe I can take ANY
translation-- including yours, and prove all of the same things which I do with the KJV.
I also see the same apparent contradictions appear in each one as well. However...

I believe there is a big difference between a contradiction and a paradox. These things
you call contradictions are, to me, the paradoxicals which have concealed "Christ the
hidden wisdom of God."(1Co 2:7) Our God is a "God of knowledge."(1Sa 2:3) But
"Thou art a God that hidest thyself."(Is 45:15) How does he hide? He is cloaked by the
two most contrary, apparently opposite, but truly collaborative borders; like the sea and
the seashore. They accompany every truth of God. However elusive to natural
humans[the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit, neither can he know them,
for they are spiritually discerned."(1Co 2:14)], they are very real, very alive, verifiable,
and very much. They connect, enforce, and camouflage "the hidden wisdom of
God."(1Co 2:7) Thanks to them, the mystery of God has been covered by astounding
paradox-- and thus producing debates such as this one. Thus the witnesses of God have
guarded "the mystery which has been kept secret since the beginning of the world;"(Ro
16:25, Col 1:26) and they bear the keys to it. I believe they are the "two witnesses"(Re
11:3) of God.

Take a look at these "two witnesses" as they appear between the lines
of the following verses:
• "I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."(Is 45:7)
• "I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal."(De 32:39)
• "The darkness and the light are both alike to thee."(Ps 139:12)
• "God has sent strong delusion that they should believe a lie."(2Th 2:11) Yet, "God
cannot lie."(Tit 1:2) And "God cannot be tempted with evil."(Jas 1:13)
• "God changes not,"(Mal 3:6)yet he increases('increaseth with the increase of
God.'(Col 2:19)

Here again, between the lines, is another close look at the strange, paradoxical nature of
God's truths:

• "That which has been is that which shall be. That which has been is now, and
that which is to be hath already been."(Ec 1:9)
• "Behold the former things are come to pass, thus I tell new things before they
happen."(Is 42:9)
• "Should ye not hear the words which the Lord hath cried by the former
prophets?"(Zec 7:7)
• "I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been secret
from the foundation of the world."(M't 13:35)
• "I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old."(Ps 78:2)
• "I have spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used
similitudes."(Ho 12:10)
• "The days are at hand and the effect of every vision."(Ez 12:23)

Consider the strange, paradoxical things which the "two witnesses" of God are sent to
prove:
• "If ye say, 'I see,' ye are still blind."(Jo 9:41)
• "My strength is made perfect in weakness;"(2Co 12:9)
• "My child is made perfect through sufferings."(He 2:10)
• "Only the grieved and broken can be forgiven and healed."(Ps 34:18&51:17; Is
57:15&66:2)
• "One must die to live."(Jo 12:25)
• "God hath chosen the foolish things...and base things of the world, and things
which are despised hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought
things that are."(1Co 1:27,28)
• "But thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them
unto babes."(M't 11:25)
• "The Lord will look unto him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation
abhorreth."(Is 49:7)
• "To this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and
trembleth at my word."(Is 66:2)
• "The Blessings prevail above all, unto the utmost bound, on the crown of the head
of him that was separate from his brethren."(Ge 49:26)
• "My God has delivered my soul from the lowest hell."(Ps 86:13)
• "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art
there...even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me."(Ps 139:8-10)
• "When I fall, then shall I greatly arise."(Mic 7:8)

Jockeying for "Name" Position

(Yahwist) I think you missed the point. It is lawful to eat lawful meat. But if we are seen
in places where idolatry is prevalent and then we are seen eating meat (lawful meat)
those around us might assume that it is unlawful meat. The same could easily apply to
saying the word "God". So therefore Shaul's instruction is to totally refrain from eating
meat in those situations or to totally refrain from saying "God".

<Datone>
...or totally refrain from saying "God" in those offensive situations? Lest what "liberty"
do you suppose Paul is referring to in the above verse?

(Yahwist)Don't tell me everyone knows what "God" you are talking about. You are only
deceiving yourself.

<Datone>
I honestly have never had the problem. Perhaps my world is sheltered and small, but
everyone here-- and on every other list, forum, church, school, Bible study, etc., I have
never encountered anyone who assumed I was talking about Satan or Baal when I
referred to God or Jesus. Even if I did hang out at devil worshipping forums, they
wouldn't appreciate me at all-- because they would know exactly to whom I was referring
when I say "God".

<Datone>
"There is NOTHING unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth ANY THING to be
unclean, to him it is unclean."(Ro 14:14)

(Yahwist)I know how you interpret this scripture, and it is incorrect. If you take a carrot,
perfectly lawful to eat, and then offer it (esteem it) to an idol, then to you it is unclean.
You do not therefore make carrots defiled for anyone else.

<Datone>
Then why should words, which you have esteemed to an idol, be unclean to me?
Let’s rephrase your analogy. Let's say someone esteems some carrots to an idol. Only
myself and the idol worshipper are in the room. I see the person offer the carrots to their
idol, then they leave. Because I happen to be very hungry, I walk over to the idiot altar,
pick up a carrots, I thank God for them, and then relish them. I stuff the rest in my pack,
go home, and my whole family enjoys fresh, carrots-- carrots which are now blessed of
God, "for they are sanctified(made pure) by the Word of God in prayer:.. nothing to be
refused if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and
prayer."(1Tim 4:4,5) Why? Pray tell. Why should I not enjoy carrots(or words) which
have been, allegedly offered to idols by idiots? The idols which others regard should not
affect my life. Right?

<Datone>
"All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence."

(Yahwist) That is all lawful food is pure. We are talking about someone who does
something pure, and because someone is weak in the faith not having proper knowledge
akins it to evil, then you should cease doing it (if it is not required by the Law).

<Datone>
So are you implying that not all food is lawful to me? Paul says "All things are lawful
unto me, but not all things are necessary."(1Co 6:12) The only case the food is not
palatable to me is when others might possibly be offended, or think I am offering respect
to some pagan god. I, however, am not. You know I'm not. It is, IMO, dishonest for you
to accuse me of such, because you know I love and serve the same God as you.

<Datone>
In using the customary "God" and "Jesus" references to "Yahweh" and "Yashua," there is no urging of the people to serve rediculous idols!

(Yahwist) Yes there certainly is! This is not hard to see, unless you believe that
Christianty is the only faith on earth and that no one has any knowledge of any gods. You
talk "God" to the native American, he is thinking of his gods. You talk "God" to
Satanists, they are thinking of their god. etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

<Datone>
I respectfully disagree. I have never had such a problem. I have conveyed my beliefs to
all people, and never has there been the remotest possiblity that they could have mistaken
my love for our Maker as a love for the devil. Never.

(Yahwist) In your mind you apply the names how you like. Remember the scriptures - it's
not just for the sake of your conscience, but for the observer! But the scripture applies the
true names, so why you prefer your tradition over scripture is unreasonable.

<Datone>
No, I do not EVER perfer any tradition over scripture-- not even mistaken translations!!!
I do regret that the translators changed the names, but I more deeply regret that you are so
distracted by, IMO, such an elementary issue. I deeply hope and pray for the day when
"the knowledge of God shall cover the earth as waters cover the sea." And in the
meantime, conveying such knowledge may not begin with telling them-- as you told me,
that my God does not hear my prayers, etc.

(Yahwist)...I know of famous evangelists using "God" as a cover for Lucifer.

<Datone>
Not that I disbelieve you... but would you tell me who? You may reach me offlist if you
like: datone@netscape.net

<Datone>
A question:
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself."(Ga 5:14) So why didn't Paul include "but also remember to spell and pronounce
God's name like this "Yahweh"?

The Nature of God's Name

(Yahwist) Then you don't actually believe what the Bible says. This is a flat denial - not
only of Leviticus 5:15-16 and Numbers 15:27-31 but of Romans too.

<Datone>
No, I'm saying that God's name is not defiled by a man's inadvertant infirmities. I lost
sight in my right eye. That doesn't defile God's name! I view my language as something
I am served in life-- just as I am only five feet seven inches tall. Like I said, the
mis-translations are my inadvertant infirmities.

(Yahwist) But that is in error. You must be concerned. I have already proven from
scripture that ignorance is not an excuse for sin. How can you say it is?

<Datone>
I am saying the issue is not about ignorance or sin. I am saying it is a non-issue because
my use of "God" and "Jesus" do not refer to pagan gods-- except to you. Thus, it is not
sin because my heart is pure before Him.

<Datone>
I hold the Bible in my hand. The Word of God. On/throughout/around it is ethereally
written the name of the one and only God/Yahweh. I cannot blot it out. It is my life.

(Yahwist) But you either don't read it or believe it. I suspect the latter. Because there is so
much, very much emphasis on His holy Name. In addition, why else would it be written
over 6000 times in the first testament?

<Datone>
Again, I don't believe God's name is necessarily a thing of human letters. God is a spirit,
and so is His name.

(Yahwist)
Why are evil men intent on abolishing His Name?

<Datone>
I honestly believe it's a smokescreen. I don't believe it's possible for men to subvert God,
His name, or His Word-- EVER, in any way.

(Yahwist) Because they abolish His authority by abolishing His Name. That is why
prayers go unanswered, that is why demons remain, that is why people are not healed,
that is why idolatry is rampant in the churches today. It all starts with His authority which
is contained in His Name.

<Datone>
No, this is Yahwists' own dogma. The scriptural reason for horrible tragedies in earth is
this: "Evil will befall you in the latter days... And the Lord said, I will hide my face from
them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very superficial generation,
children in whom is NO faith.'(De 31:29&32:20)

"Letter" vs. "Spirit" of the Law

(Yahwist)
"But he that doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from the faith (that
is the Law); for whatever is not from the faith (the Law) is sin." Romans 14:23

<Datone>
"Faith" and "law" are not necessarily synonomous. As you know, in the Old Testament,
"law"(which you are referring to) was "Torah"-- a thing of letters. But now, Christ is the
truth-- He now is the new and living law that is not of letters; "For Christ is the end of the
law for righteousness to every one that believes."(Ro 10:4) And "Faith is the substance of
things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."

<Datone>
You are caught up in the letter of the law-- instead of the Spirit of the law which Jesus
taught.

(Yahwist) I didn't realise the two were seperable.

<Datone>
Indeed they are. Look. The letter of the law is observable to any eye-- to the wicked and
to the just alike. But to discern the spirit of the law is a miracle(1Co 2:14) which is
unavailable to "natural man." That is WHY it is so dangerous for <certain>people to
judge others by the LETTER of the law.

<Datone>
Jesus illustrated this point perfectly by "harvesting" corn to eat presently on the Sabbath
day; and by telling a healed man to haul his bed off on the Sabbath.

<Datone>
The letter of the law is the "vail": "for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken
away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even
unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."(see 2Co 3:14-18)

(Yahwist) Even the King James Bible does not call the "letter of the law" nor "the law" a
veil (vail). You made that up.

<Datone>
You don't realize that Jesus was exposing that Pharasiacal vail when he broke their law of
letters for the sake of the spirit of the law?

<Datone>
Do you believe Ga 2:16 applies to Jesus? "by the works of the law shall no flesh be
justified."

(Yahwist) Do you believe Romans 2:13?

<Datone>
Yes, like it says, I am a "doer of the law". Ah ah, mind you, I am not
necessarily a doer of the letter of the law-- How so then? How do I "do
the Spirit of the law"? He does me! Here's how it began: "I was chastised
as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: TURN THOU ME, AND I SHALL BE
TURNED; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented;
and after that I was instructed."(Je 31:18,19) Here is my testimony regarding how I do
Ro 2:13:

• "The steps of a chosen man are ordered by the Lord. Though he fall, he shall not
be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholds him with his hand."(Ps 37:23,24)

• "The way of a man is not in himself. It is not in man that walketh to direct his
steps."(Je 10:23)
• "A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directs his steps."(Pr 16:9)
• "The preparations of the heart in man and the answer of the tongue is from the
Lord."(Pr 16:1)
• "It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."(Ph'p
2:13)
• "O Lord, thou hast wrought all our works in us."(Is 26:12)
• "Commit thy works unto the lord, and thy thoughts shall be established."(Pr 16:3)
• "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."(Jo 15:16)
• "Even now, it is God that works in you, both to will and to do of his good
pleasure."(Ph'p 2:13)

(Yahwist) Yahshua was not "made sin", He beared the penealty of our sins. If He
"became sin" then His sacrifice was worthless.

<Datone>
Wrong. see 1Co 5:21"For he(God) hath made him(Jesus) to be sin for us"Jesus received
the victory over all sin by his faith! That is the gospel.

(Yahwist) No that is not the gospel. That is unqualified. All false religions require that
there faith gives them ascention. Messiah never became sin - that very scripture says that
He never knew sin - so your Bible translation contradicts itself unlike the original source.

<Datone>
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being MADE A CURSE FOR US:
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."(Ga 3:13)
Does this not corroborate 1Co 5:21?

The Faith of Christ

(Yahwist)"For Yahweh made Him, Who knew no sin, to be a sin offering for us, that we
might become the righteousness of Yahweh, through Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

(Yahwist)"I have kept THE FAITH." not "I have kept faith".

Here are the particulars of the faith of Christ:

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