Electric Dreams Electric Dreams Electric Dreams Electric Dreams

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Volume 4 Issue 11

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Electric Dreams Electric Dreams Electric Dreams Electric Dreams

November- December 1997

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E L E C T R I C D R E A M S

Volume 4 Issue #11

25 November 1997



ISSN# 1089 4284

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Electric Dreams - on the World Wide Web

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-- Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to:

Bob Krumhansl <bobkrum@erols.com>



--Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to:

Peggy Coats <pcoats@dreamtree.com>



--Send Articles and Subscription concerns to:

Richard Wilkerson: <rcwilk@aol.com>

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C O N T E N T S

++ Editor's Notes

++ Dream Airing Column - Victoria Quinton

++ DREAM TREK By Linda Lane Magallon

The Halloween Costume Ball

Report on a group dreaming project

++ Dream Analysis as a Science

Article by Robert Lewis

Discussion by Robert Lewis and Richard Wilkerson

++ Interview: Debriefing for an Accent into Lucid Freedom

An Interview with Dolphina

++ John Fitzsimons interview October 97

Victoria Quinton

++ Sex, Symbols and Dreams

A Review of the Work of Janice Hinshaw Baylis, Ph.D

Linley Joy

++ Madame Aionia's Astrological Dreaming Series:

Dreaming Through the Houses: 10th House

G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S

Director Peggy Coats

This Month's Features:

NEWS

- Dreamer 1.0 for Windows 95

- Autographed Copy of Our Dreaming Mind Available

- Dream Studies Certificate Program Offered in January

- An Invitation from Robert Bosnack to Participate in

CyberDreamWork

- Dream Consultation with Robert Van de Castle Offered by Mail

- Mayan Dreaming Retreat and Shamanic Training In the Yucatan

with Ariadne Green

- Dream Cruise to the Caribbean

- Interactive Dreaming

-ASD News Updates



RESEARCH & REQUESTS

- Enigmatic "Winged Horse" Study

- Looking for Hearing Impaired Dream Research



WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES

- Dream Translations

- CyberDreamWork

- Psychology and Film

LATE BREAKING NEWS

- Jeremy Taylor In Cyberspace

DREAM CALENDAR for November-December 1997

D R E A M S SECTION - BY BOB K.

SEE INDEX Below (For ED V4N11)

++ EDITORIAL: CHANGING SEASONS by BK

DISCLAIMER

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DECEMBER 11, WED deadline for submission

FOR Next Electric Dreams vol 4(12)

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Editors' Notes

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Though I'm not a big fan of Television, I did notice with some

despair the rise and fall of the NBC series Sleepwalkers which

lasted all of two shows before being pulled due to low ratings. I

had hoped that the fallout from the series would spark a general

interest in dreams in America and the public light would shine

for a season on all the dream projects and knowledge that are

currently being explored. No such luck, maybe next season.

In the meantime, I'm happy to bring you some of the most

pioneering of dream concerned folks who use the Net as a means of

exploring dreams and dreaming.

Linda Magallon is back with a summary of our Halloween

adventures and dreams during the experimental Swarm III, an

online and mutual dreaming experiment.

Robert Lewis and I discuss his ideas about dreaming as science,

what this might look like, what's needed and what considerations

might be worked through. Is there an essential reason for

dreaming, or will all posited reasons be diluted by the

multiplicity of dream layers and interpretive perspective?

Two interviews this month explore the personal and professional

use of dreams. Be sure to read both the Dolphina and John

Fitzsimons interviews by ED staff.

Whenever sex comes up in a dream we are often quick to point out

that Freud's ideas aren't the only one's on the block. But what

are the other ideas? Some very useful work of Janice Hinshaw

Baylis is reviewed by Linley Joy when she investigates Sex,

Symbols and Dreams.

Madame Aionia continues her investigation of dreams and

astrology in Dreaming Through the Houses. This month, the

Eleventh House.

Peggy Coats brings to you this month the scoop on dreams and

dreaming in the Global Dreaming News. Learn how to have private

dream interpretive sessions with world famous Robert Van de

Castle, or get a signed copy of his popular book. Take a Dream

Cruise with famous dream personages. Consider getting certified

in dreamwork. Join a research study on dreams. Locate a CD dream

journal program. Find out what's going on with the Association

for the Study of Dreams. All these and much, much more in the GD

news.

Be sure to scan through the Dream Airing area for notes from

others online about dreaming questions and comments.

I'll let Bob tell you about the Dreams Section himself.

Say, are you interested in joining a dream sharing group or

would you like to make comments on dreams we get? If so, drop me

a line....

- Richard Wilkerson

rcwilk@aol.com





From Bob Krumahnsl about this month's Dream Section:

Highlights from this issue: Take a WALK WITH CHAN for a trip to a

magical site which actually exists, and listen to advice for the

living from the other side. Have you ever had a Falling dream?

Relive the experience with THE ARCADE. Share a journey through

space and time in MOUND O DAD in the HOTEL section. Check out

DIRECTIONS for suggestions on dealing with some of this issues

dreams from a directional perspective. GOD comes to our pages in

REVELATION under RELIGIOUS RELATED. Again, several Car related

dreams were submitted. They are included in the VEHICLE section -

from moving cars to cars in parking lots. How is the car in your

life doing? Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate this event.

Enjoy your visit to the pages of Electric Dreams.



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Dream Airing Column - Victoria Quinton



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QUESTION AIRING FORUM



Hello everyone

I have been kept busy in the recent past with activities relating

to Emily going to kindergarten next year.

Happy Thanksgiving to you in the US.

The temperature is rising here; the heat will be on for Christmas

before I know it.

Happy family times to everyone.

I am still looking to expand my children and dreams page:

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid/childdrm.htm

and would welcome any ideas.

May you all have fulfilling dreams.



Victoria Quinton

mermaid@alphalink.com.au

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid





Looking for the Writhing Woman Dreamer

Robert Lewis <robertl@core-net.com>

I request the e-mail address of the person who dreamt Writhing

Women, dream # 97030.



====================================

I am a 52 year old male. For sometime now I have experienced upon

wakening or while shaving in the morning an experience that is new to

me. I will be thinking about a dream I had during the night. The

dream will be very clear and while I am concentrating on the dream, I

will suddenly begin to remember dreams that I have had over the past

year. They are remembered in detail. It is like a file folder has

opened in my mind!. Sometimes the dreams go by so fast that I have to

"shake my head and say wow!"

I have remembered dreams from the previous night but never have

experienced the remembrance of dreams from times past until recently.

Is this a common occurrence with people? Any information would be

appreciated.

Thank You Frank

avey@bendnet.com

==============================

From Epic Dewfall

I made a rather detailed faq explaining my lucid dream art work. I thought maybe you might like

to read it sometime.

http://www.storm.ca/~lucid/faq.html

RCW: Epic - I thought others might like this too, as your site is

such a fabulous example of dream inspired art.



===========================



Sleepwalkers.

The NBC show Sleepwalkers had only two episodes, but we had

some questions on the show which I sent in to Keith at the

Lucidity Institute:

>Hi Keith,

> Well, two of the Sleepwalkers shows have aired and I wanted

>to check with > you on fallout, feedback and responses. Did you

>get a chance to see either of them?

Hi Richard,

I have not received a single call from people that have watched

the show to my surprise.

> TV shows all leave me a little bored, but I do feel that if

the show is successful, there will be a surge in dream

consciousness.

K:

That's what I am hoping. The show has a lot of scary things

happening that could discourage lucid dreaming, but I expect that

the the surge will take place instead (I hope).

R:> - Some of the questions that have come in that you might

want to respond to for the Electric Dreams November/December

issue....

>

> - Do dreams really cause blindness?

I can't see how dreams could possibly cause blindness. I suspect

that some people that had become blind at some point in their

life may have seen a false cause and effect relationship if they

had become blind overnight.

> - Do dreams really cause paralysis? (this sneaky line in the

show (1)

> *could* be interpreted as rem paralysis, but was said in the

context to > imply that dreams have left people blind and in

waking life paralyzed)



Again, I think that this may have come from the cause and effect

relationship or Hollywood hype. Certainly we become temporarily

paralyzed

in REM sleep, and some people even experience "sleep paralysis"

or the inability to move for a short while after awakening, but I

do not see that dreams would ever cause paralysis.

> and thus

>

> -Are dreams dangerous?

Dreams are not dangerous. I could see that a person with a weak

heart, upon awakening from a scary dream (heart rate does not

increase too much beyond normal in the dream) a person could

experience problems. You see, Lucid dreaming could someday save

your life! ;)

>

> - Do people really meet in dreams?

I don't know. Linda Magallon (caseyflyer@aol.com) wrote a book

on the subject of mutual dreaming, so she would be able to answer

that question better than I.

>

> - Is there a connection between Steven in the first show and

Stephen Laberge?

>

There might be. The producers of the first show did come to the

Lucidity Institute and spoke with Dr. LaBerge.

> - How far away are we from having the equipment to travel in

dreams like in Sleepwalkers?

I wish I knew. This would probably depend on private funding

since all research dollars go to sleep medicine and not in things

like that or lucid dreaming.

>

> - What *is* the connection between the Morphius Institute and

the Lucidity Institute? (not only questions about the model for

the Morphius institute, but what parallels in the direction and

goals of the research are there? )

Morpheus is the Greek god of dreams, so it seems like an

appropriate name, and the producers did visit us which could have

sparked their imagination. Our goals in the research are

certainly the same in the aspect that we want people to use

lucidity to help them in life which can be done with a better

understanding of the lucid state or with the help of

technology. So far, the show has touched on using dreams to help

with nightmares and waking problems, but lucid dreaming can help

in many other

ways such as creativity, problem solving, and self-improvement to

name a few.

> - What's the best way to learn about lucid dreaming?

visit our site http://www.lucidity.com and read books about it.

Also talk with friends and other people that are interested in

lucid dreaming.

Keith Garcia

-----------------------------------------------------------------

------

The Lucidity Institute, Inc. * tel: 650.321.9969 * fax:

650.321.9967

keith@lucidity.com * ftp://ftp.lucidity.com *

http://www.lucidity.com

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DREAM TREK

By Linda Lane Magallon

The Halloween Costume Ball

Report on a group dreaming project

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For the entire week of Halloween, dreamers were invited to dream

their way to a Halloween Costume Ball aboard "the

Magallón-Galleon dreamland cruise." Before sleeping, they were

instructed to picture themselves in the costume of their choice,

to climb into their own sleep of dreams and (like Wynken, Blynken

and Nod) to set sail as they drifted into sleep. They were also

advised to pay especial attention to the characters in their

dreams...the fellow revelers they might meet during the night. 21

people sent in dreams, from 3 continents.

Costumes and Literal Identification:

True to the *Fly-By-Night Club* sponsorship, there were plenty

of winged creatures: birds, butterflies, even flying fish. One

woman planned to come as a cat with retractable wings; another

dreamt she rode a flying lion. Both reported similar emotions.

For Victoria, the lion seemed to be getting angry; Ruth, the

cat-woman, dreamt of a confrontation.

A space theme was prevalent: there were stars and a crescent

moon. Also, an astronaut, Star Trekker, Super Hero and Rocket

Man.

An American dreamt of a woman in a Dutch cap. One of the

participants was, indeed, a woman from the Netherlands.

2 people dreamt of a man named John (one of our participants

was actually named John); 3 dreamt of a man named Paul (no one

participated with that waking name).

Although some people saw long gowns, the favorite costume was

bloomer pants! Here are some variations on that theme: Chinese

bloomers, Siamese, Afgani, Kozak dancer, belly dancer and baggy

19th century pants. (Two people had 19th century costumes.)

Symbols:

We always see other people through the filter of our own

perception. The dreams pictured this as: mirrors, a card deck

with moving faces and a woman's face smack in the middle of a

kite.

Apropos the sweet nature of American Halloween, one man dreamt

of John Candy; another man pictured carrying candy inside his

pocket and a 3rd man dreamt of getting candy with money from

inside a candy machine.

A couple of people commented about strange foreign-symbolic

writing. Roger did send a dream in French.

Best collaborative pun award goes to Ruth and Tony. Ruth dreamt

of a "deck" (or pack) of Tarot cards. Tony dreamt of his laying

his jetpack on a wooden "deck."

Locations:

Several people commented on the curved walls of their indoor

surroundings. There were also large outdoor spaces for

party-gatherings, including 2 camps. Although 3 ships were

mentioned, most dreaming minds chose other vehicles for their

night journey, like cars, trains, and, of course, beds!

Actions:

In my dream, I closely scrutinized a skirt costume; Melinda did

the same thing (she was lucid and dreaming of me at the time).

Ruth dreamt that she asked Melinda if she had dreamt up a lucid

dream for the project and Melinda had replied that she did. True!

The prize for closest harmony between dreams goes to Shirley and

Country Girl:

Shirley: I was with a group of people and we were all strapped

into this huge concentric circle. Like the inside of some

amusement park ride. Suddenly we began to spin, we spun around

and around so fast, we began to tilt up on our side. Then I saw

this strange being standing to my left and he was spraying this

mist stuff in the air. I asked him what he was doing and he said

he was giving me "pure oxygen" to breathe because my lips were

turning white and I was about ready to pass out. The phrase

"centrifugal force" popped into my mind as I struggled awake.

Whoa!

Country Girl: ...We were surrounded by a large crowd and there

were a lot of beds around. Continuing to hum, I kissed him

harder, backing him up against a pair of

bunk beds. Then we were rotated at right angles from before and

there

was a double bed behind him instead of the bunk beds, as I began

putting

the rhythm off beat in syncopation...Now we were standing in the

midst of all the beds, spinning. (Like in the movie Dirty

Dancing - which, unbeknownst to me, was to air on TV the next

day...) I couldn't say if I was one person, or two. My head was

back and my hair flying out straight behind me as we spun around.

The crowd continued to urge us on and the energy

continued to mount. It was a hard, driving rock beat. Now I was

now spinning, not upright, but with my body out parallel to the

floor and my left arm pointing downwards, my fingertips as the

pivot.

I remember thinking that you aren't supposed to be able to do

this, to spin this way. But I didn't care. Nothing existed but

us and the music.

The queen of this year's Halloween Ball is Mary. She had

resonance with the greatest number of other people's dreams:

A single man who is an "astronaut" = Christopher's Star Trek

costume and Tony's Rocket Man dream (However, both of those men

are married!)

A "briefcase" = Melinda's woman with briefcase

"Video-taping" = Ruth's video. Mary also talks about a "man

with dark brown hair, 5'7'" who is carrying some "locker doors."

Ruth describes her Paul as "average height, dark-brown hair, very

slightly receding hairline, nondescript." He's playing with a

deck of cards.

The platforms floating in air = Country Girls' beds & Shirley's

circle.

The army soldier with battle fatigues = Wow, what a hit with

Cynnie's dream!

Her Chinese bloomers resonate with several people, but the red

vest and white shirt = Gerard's costume (Melinda also dreamt of

"red and white," as did Lucky)

Is the lumber = Christopher's "siding"? Is the alien craft =

Tony's "Rocket Man"?

The cut canvas = my dream of a torn chiffon skirt.

The woman who says she's going to Hawaii = several of the

project participants are planning to go to the ASD '98 conference

in Hawaii.

A man with light brown, chin length, poofy hair = In waking

life, I have dark brown tint (over grey) hair, currently cut chin

length. However, in my dream, I had an Afro. In the dream state,

I am often perceived by other people (especially other mutual

dreamers) as a dark haired man.









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Dream Analysis as a Science

Article by Robert Lewis

Discussion by Robert Lewis and Richard Wilkerson

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PREAMBLE

There will come a day, perhaps sooner than later, when every

dream will be known by its category, and every significant dream,

(those that yield "practical" knowledge), will be perfectly

understood. In this future, dream analysis, as a scientifically

verifiable body of knowledge, will have acquired a status

comparable to science, and will be regarded as one of the

principle sources of self knowledge.

What is remarkable and yet remarkably overlooked is that

because we all dream, we are already in possession of this

knowledge. But the laws which would make this knowledge

explicitly known to us have not yet been uncovered, much like the

motion of the planets was observed before Newton, but without his

laws, the mere fact of their motion held no "practical"

significance. The pseudo-science of dream analysis is stuck in a

pre-Newtonian universe. If dream analysis is to advance

towards a "practical" goal, if it is to move beyond its merely

speculative sphere of activity, it must take a bold step

backwards and finally begin to establish and secure its axioms

and principles (and pre-suppositions): the indispensable

building blocks of knowledge.

The following paper, provisional in its scope, is an

invitation to the dream establishment to explore how this

enormous but critical (phenomenological, "pre-hermeneutical")

task might be approached. The fundamental question that must

be asked is: what can we say for certain, if anything, about

dreams?

TO SUBJECT DREAM ANALYSIS TO SCIENTIFIC SCRUTINY

IF DREAM analysis has been given short shrift as a legitimate

psycho-analytical tool, it is because it hasn`t been able to

establish a scientific foundation for itself. For the most part,

it continues to seek a phantom unifying principle, where

commonalities are forged into theories that knit together a broad

category of dreams. However, while models and theories abound,

their predictive value collapses in the face of individual

experience.

So if we begin with the presupposition that every dream,

like every snowflake, has its unique structure and meaning, we

can turn our attention away from a grand unifying principle, and

instead, begin to ask more the primordial questions of dreams.

Which means before we begin to speak about dreams, it is

necessary to demonstrate the biological basis (necessity) of

dreaming; and to show that dreams are as identifiably and

singularly purposeful to man's psychological life as, for

example, essential proteins are to existence.

As far as we claim to know anything about dreams, the

still unanswered question remain: why do we dream, to what

ultimate purpose? What is the meaning of dreams, where the

meaning or essence is the same for each and every dream, much

like a house can mean a thousand things to a thousand dwellers,

but prior to individual meaning, it is first and foremost always

a shelter. The status and future of dream analysis as

investigative tool hang on these questions.

We are the only species that can willfully delude

ourselves. I can convince myself that my neighbor likes me when

he really doesn`t; that my understanding of Hegel is adequate

enough to effectively teach it when it isn`t; that I approve of

my daughter`s choice for a husband when I don`t etc. In each

case there are incontrovertible facts which should lead me to

conclude that (1) my neighbor doesn`t like me (2) that I don`t

approve of my daughter`s marriage (3) that my understanding of

Hegel is inadequate etc. But in each case the facts have been

undermined or corrupted by a self-serving interpretation whose

first effect is to `apparently` render less stressful what would

otherwise be a stress inducing situation. It`s much

easier to convince myself that my neighbor likes me than have to

deal with the possibility that he doesn`t, why doesn`t he, did I

inadvertently insult him, embarrass his wife. what will I say if

he confronts me, etc. It`s again easier to convince myself that

I have an adequate understanding of Hegel, rather than have to

again struggle with his recalcitrant material. If I`m honest

with myself concerning my daughter`s marriage to a man I

disapprove, I risk losing her affection, her respect and the

father-daughter contact which is very important to me. So there

are all sorts of good and practical and immediate reasons for

deluding myself.

If part of being a successful organism means being able

to deal with stress, it`s natural to exercise that uniquely human

option OF consciously CHOOSING to self-delude, if the result is

to postpone or eliminate a potentially stressful situation. But

because we also know that it is always in an organism`s best

interest to perceive reality, so as to be able to respond

(survive) to it as it is (and not what we wish it to be), we

shouldn`t be surprised that over the course of animal and human

evolution the selection process has favored those species who

have been best able to register and process reality. So on the

one hand, we are the species that has been programmed to register

and respond to reality, while at the same time we are the species

that can choose to delude itself. Which begs the question: how

are these competing motivations reconciled?

Before the emergence of intelligence (or

self-consciousness), the sensible world made its home in what is

now referred to as the subconscious (or unconscious). The

organism, in a manner consistent with its DNA, would register and

process information coming from outside itself, and respond in a

pre-determined fashion. It is only in man`s recent history that

that mind could interpret, manipulate or distort the information

initially received through the senses. So if the accurate

reception of reality has always been the first perogative of the

subconscious, it makes sense that dreaming, which we will

designate as the involuntary, biological response to the

conscious mind`s capacity for self-delusion, should occur there.

Dreaming need not occur in the conscious because as part of its

basic constitution, it already has in place a correcting

mechanism -- reason -- which when exercised, obviates the need

to dream. It`s only when reason fails to perform, the species

response in each and every case is to dream. For example, if I

come to conscious terms with my inadequate understanding of Hegel

I will not have to dream it; but if I reject or distort that

truth, I must dream.

With the advent of consciousness, or self-consciousness,

the possibility arises that there can be an inadequate

correspondence between what our senses receive and the

interpretation of what is received. Natural selection has seen

to it that this perception gap is addressed when the organism is

asleep; which is the necessary condition for the corrective

mechanism to be activated and for dreaming to occur. And while

the lower brain (the subconscious) seems to have the last word;

that word, for the most part, remains inarticulate, and rarely

reaches the consciousness of the person who had the dream. From

this, we must conclude that we apparently need not remember our

dreams, much less be able to interpret them. And yet it seems

that it is essential to dream when we have consciously distorted

or misinterpreted what our senses have received.

In other words, if the conscious mind can be happy in

self-delusion, the subconscious can never be; it can never

accept the distortions from above, and yet it cannot pre-empt the

distorting process: it can only respond to it (through the

mechanism of dreaming). Which is to say, natural selection has

favored the kind of intelligent life we are, in whom this

correcting mechanism (dreaming) is a distinguishing

characteristic, but which does not distinguish itself in respect

to final effects. Whether we would be a better or more improved

species if we were more conscious of our dreams is another

question. Our starting point must be that in the absence of

deliberate (professional) intervention, dreams play only a small

role in the decisions which determine the outcome of individual

existence.

Therefor, excepting dreams which anticipate urgent bodily

functions (diarrhea etc.), I propose that all (significant)

dreams, without exception, oblige the dreamer to subconsciously

come to terms with truths or facts the conscious mind has

distorted or misinterpreted. But in the dream, the dreamer does

not come to actual terms with a fact or truth. My dream of Hegel

may have nothing to do with Hegel. But in the dream, which may

take place in a very unrecognizable, or unworldly setting, I will

acknowledge that I have an inadequate understanding of something

which is analogous to my actual situation. In other words, for

the health and well-being of the organism which I am, the dream

will create those optimal conditions which will allow me to come

to subconscious terms with a vital truth that corresponds to the

truth I am avoiding about Hegel in my waking state.

Why must dreams always be symbolic or disguised?

If I am unwilling to come to terms with a particular truth during

my waking, I will

certainly not come to terms with it during sleep if the setting

of the dream is exactly the same as in reality. Therefor, the

dream must use symbols and/or unfamiliar settings/dynamics, to

cajole the dreamer into entering a situation which tricks him

into acknowledging a truth he has consciously avoided or

distorted during his waking.

What is the utility of dreams if we apparently forget

most of them, and those we remember we are unable to interpret?

How can I act upon a dream if I don`t remember it?

If, for example, on an esteem scale, my boss` esteem for

me is 5 out of 10 while I believe it to be 7 out of 10, it`s

hardly necessary that I remember the dream that obliges me to

acknowledge the disparity. However, if the situation is life

threatening, or carries potentially significant consequences, the

content and frequency of the dream will adjust accordingly. For

example, if I continue to deny that my understanding of Hegel is

inadequate, and refuse to recognize the very real possibility

that I will be dismissed from the department, the occasional

dream on the subject may become a recurring dream. Thus

increasing the likelihood that I will become conscious of it.

Even at this point I may not understand the dream, but I will

have registered the mood of it (the mood of inadequate

understanding of something), and this might be enough to make me

act. If this fails to register, the recurring dream may become a

nightmare, from which I will awake, profoundly disturbed, with

the dream fresh in my conscious mind. At that point, I will

probably, at a minimum, be motivated to question the dream. If

the dream contains even a passing reference to Hegel, this might

be enough to finally encourage me to acknowledge the consequences

of not having an adequate understanding of Hegel.

The nightmare is perhaps the most noteworthy of dreams

because its design (purpose) is such that, as a response, it

deliberately affects the conscious, awoken mind; it`s the

tight-rope the dreamer walks between the subconscious and

conscious. Its becomes an appropriate (and arguably necessary)

response when the organism determines that its (upper mind)

capacity for self-delusion is life-threatening, and/or carries

significant negative consequences. Therefor, children, in whom

fantasy and unreality have been nurtured since birth, should

experience more nightmares than adults -- as a measure of their

unhealthy reluctance to relinquish their fantasy life. If this

can be scientifically verified, it follows that children raised

in primitive cultures (or raised more realistically) should be

less prone to nightmares than Disneyland`s children? Or an adult

who is very realistic about himself should dream less (perhaps

require less sleep) than someone who is unrealistic about

himself? {Buddhism maintains that the enlightened Buddha doesn`t

dream? Because he has rid himself of all his delusions?} The

challenge is to submit what is now

mere theory (with perhaps some predictive value) to the rigors of

science.

Dreams represent an extremely rich, but untapped natural

resource, much like the sun`s energy. In light of increasing

demographic pressures and

dwindling natural resources, inter-human relations are becoming

more and more strained as we look to the next century. Dreams,

as a source of knowledge, might be used to relieve some of these

pressure points; but this is to put the cart before the horse.

If dream analysis is to have any epistemological credibility, its

first priority must be to establish a sound scientific foundation

for itself. (Not unlike what Kant tried to do for knowledge).

THE END

Robert Lewis

robertl@core-net.com

======================================

Discussion by Robert Lewis and Richard Wilkerson



Normal text = Richard Wilkerson

Normal text (RCW2) = Richard Wilkerson - second comments

Normal text with >> or << = Quotes of Lewis' Text

CAPITAL TEXT = Robert Lewis's Replies

(Richard): Rob, its quite true that there is still a gap in

the scientific study of meaning. Science has little to say about

meaning, and rather relies on probabilities of appearance. One

can't start with empirical investigation and end up with

statements about meaning without leaping some huge gaps.

(Rob) I AGREE. BUT IN RESPECT TO DREAM ANALYSIS, WE CAN GET A

LOT CLOSER TO THE MEANING OF A DREAM IF WE UNDERSTAND, AS FACT,

THE ULTIMATE PURPOSE OF DREAMING, WHERE EVERY PRACTICAL DREAM IS

DREAMT FOR THE SAME REASON. THIS IS WHAT I'M AIMING AT. AS FOR

THE MEANING OF INDIVIDUAL DREAMS, THAT, I SUSPECT, WILL FALL INTO

PLACE, ONCE THE MAJOR PRINCIPLES HAVE BEEN UNCOVERED. AM I TOO

OPTIMISTIC FOR MY OWN GOOD?

(RCW2): Well, I'll say more about this later, but I do think that

by pursuing a specific view of dream-meaning that powerful tools

can result. As to whether *other* theories of dream meaning would

have to step aside forever, well, that may be expecting too much

from a theory.

(Text Quote) >IF DREAM analysis has been given short shrift as a

legitimate psycho-analytical >tool, it is because it hasn`t been

able to establish a scientific foundation for itself.

(Richard): I quite agree that dream analysis has not gone very

far in establishing a scientific foundation for itself. I don't

agree that the short shrift as a legitimate psycho-analytic tool

is due to this. Freud complained near the end of his life that

no one in psychoanalysis had advanced his original dream

theories. This complaint, to my understanding, had to do with the

development of transference, which the (Freudian) psychoanalysts

as a group preferred to focus on and use as the major tool.

Transference has not gone any farther than dreams in getting

itself established scientifically. As a matter of fact,

psychoanalysis has not gone very far in getting itself

scientifically established. Most of the original pseudo-physics

Freud used as a model (or I should say, fin-de-sicle science)

have been dropped.

Now, perhaps you are using "psycho-analytic" in a more

general way?

DEFINITELY IN A GENERAL WAY.

Here, I agree with you again, though again, the paths of science

and hermeneutics have always had gaps.

HERMENEUTICS DEALS WITH EVERYTHING BUT SCIENTIFIC FACT.

(RCW2): This used to be so, but now that hermeneutics has given

birth to a variety of interpretive approaches, even science comes

under its scrutiny.

(Richard 1) Jung actually began his career very empirically,

using gsr polygraphs to investigate complexes. But the transition

of complex into dream was never grounded scientifically.

> For the most part, it continues to seek a phantom unifying

principle, where commonalities are >forged into theories that

knit together a broad category of dreams. However, while models

and >theories abound, their predictive value collapses in the

face of individual experience.

Yes, and if you need an early reference on the historical

seeking of unity, I believe it was Aristotle who said to be a

good dream interpreter, one had to be good with likenesses. James

Hillman often quotes him. Dreamwork often seems to follow

theosophy and magic in the over-use of correspondence and

likeness as a guiding trope. I think this is due to our loss of

dream telling on a daily basis and the need to find the dream

related to something we know. In my opinion its gone way too far

and we would profit from exploring the differences rather than

all the similarities.

EXACTLY. THE SAME DREAM CAN MEAN TWO DIFFERENT THINGS TO TWO

DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN UNLIKE SITUATIONS. THE SAME DREAM DREAMT IN

THE MORNING MIGHT MEAN SOMETHING ELSE LATER IN THE DAY. YES.

FORGET ABOUT PATTERN RECOGNITION (I.E. SHORT CUTS).

> So if we begin with the presupposition that every dream,

like every snowflake, has its unique structure and meaning, we

can turn our attention away from a grand unifying principle, and

instead, begin to ask more the primordial questions of dreams.

Great. This movement is long overdue. Careful with metaphors

of "primordial" if you are moving away from grand narratives.



> Which means before we begin to speak about dreams, it is

>necessary to >demonstrate the biological basis (necessity) of

>dreaming; and to show >that dreams are as identifiably and

>singularly purposeful to man's psychological life as, for

example, essential proteins are to existence.



I have to agree with bob here.(Bob Krumhansl's comment about

the multiple layers of meaning in a dream. ) Very few things

biologically serve only one function, including proteins. The

current science on dreaming (function vs meaning now) is that

during fetal development dreaming serves in the neuro-

development and hardwiring of the brain, where as later, in this

capacity, it functions to softwire. Also, as the mammalian brain

needs to stay warmer than the reptilian brain, something needs to

keep it occasionally active during the sleep periods without

actually waking the mammal up.

I'M CERTAINLY NOT IN A POSITION TO ARGUE THIS. I'LL JUST SAY

THAT, ALL THE ABOVE BEING TRUE, THERE IS NONETHELESS, A PRACTICAL

(NON BIOLOGICAL) FUNCTION TO DREAMS, THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHICH

CAN RESULT IN A POSITIVE EFFECT ON OUR LIVES AS WE LIVE THEM DAY

TO DAY. WHAT YOU MENTION ABOVE WILL HAPPEN REGARDLESS, AND THERE

IS NO NEED TO BE CONSCIOUS OF IT. AS FOR COMPENSATORY DREAMS,

THAT'S ANOTHER MUCH MORE SERIOUS MATTER. MORE ON THIS LATER.

FOR ALL I KNOW, THERE IS A DREAM TRIGGER THAT TRIGGERS A DREAM,

WHETHER WE NEED TO DREAM OR NOT, MUCH LIKE OUR STOMACH PRODUCES

DIGESTIVE ENZYMES WHETHER WE HAVE EATEN OR NOT. THE KEY IS TO

DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SIGNIFICANT DREAMS PURPOSEFULL) AND

INSIGNIFICANT - THOSE DREAMT REFLEXIVELY (AUTONOMOUSLY).

Another function of dreams. There are many others, biologically

speaking. See

++Moffitt, A., Kramer, M., Hoffmann, R. (Eds.). (1993). The

Function of Dreaming. NY: State University of New York Press.

++Hunt, Harry T.(1989). The Multiplicity of Dreams: Memory,

Imagination and Consciousness. New Haven: Yale University Press.

++Ellman, Steven J. & Antrobus, John S. (Eds). (1991). The Mind

in Sleep: Psychology and Psychophysiology. 2nd editon. New York:

John Wiley and Sons, Inc.

I still feel if you open this up to multiple functions, and are

clear about the difference between the biological and

psychological functions, the thrust of what you are saying will

hold, and actually be strengthened by the multiple uses of

dreaming.

>> As far as we claim to know anything about dreams, the

>still unanswered question remain: why do we dream, to what

>ultimate purpose? What is the meaning of dreams, where the

>meaning or essence is the same for each and every dream, much

>like a house can mean a thousand things to a thousand dwellers,

>but prior to individual meaning, it is first and foremost

>always a shelter. The status and future of dream analysis as

>investigative tool hang on these questions.

Again, I would drop the grand narratives, (ultimate purpose,

essence, foremost meaning) or separate these out as the

spiritual quest from your empirical and psychological quest. A

shelter for some is a prison for others. the theory of biological

adaptation is not the only view in life.

EXACTLY. AGAIN, RE. PRISON ANALOGY, IDENTICAL DREAMS CAN HAVE

UNIDENTICAL MEANINGS.

I hear in your text a kind of phenomenological quest as well

which could be developed. Husserl, who said, "to the things

themselves" was interested in an investigation of the world and

the perceiver of the world in a way that would get to that part

of things one might call essential. What, he asks, can be removed

from that book over there in such a way that it is still

essentially what it is? I hear in your questions a similar

theme.

>>>>> We are the only species that can willfully delude

ourselves. I can convince myself..=//= . (much text cut - see

full text above) =//= >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rob, Carl Jung would agree with you in your argument and

extends in a little. He felt that nature abhors a vacuum and when

the ego goes too far from its biological destiny, an unconscious

compensation occurs, which can be seen in the dream. Your theory

is slightly different in that you hold that the unconscious has

the truth and the dream attempts to bridge or mend this gap.

AT THIS STAGE, RICHARD, THIS IS THE KEY TO WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY

AND PROVE. EVEN IF I'M WRONG, I BELIEVE THERE IS A SINGLE

PURPOSE (THAT REMAINS TO BE UNCOVERED) TO SIGNIFICANT DREAMING,

AS UNVARIABLE AS A LAW OF PHYSICS. EVEN IF IT DOESN'T EXIST OR

IS NEVER FOUND, THIS SHOULD BE THE QUEST.

There are some assumptions here you will have to live with

that I would be uncomfortable with. One is that the world is *in*

the unconscious and that the unconscious contains the truth. I

would rather say that truths often come through the unconscious.

It would be a highly spiritualized position to say that the

unconscious is the keeper of capital R Reality.

THE SENSES KNOW THE TRUTH. IT'S OUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE

SENSES HAVE REGISTERED IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES.

IF OUR INTERPRETATION IS CORRECT, THE TRUTH RESIDES IN THE

CONSCIOUS. IF INCORRECT, WE MUST DREAM THE TRUTH - UNCONSCIOUSLY

- AND DEPENDING ON A HOST OF FACTORS THIS TRUTH MAY NEVER REACH

THE CONSCIOUS.

In Jung's system, the conscious and the unconscious cooperate to

fill in the gap that exists between the concrete truth and the

ideal truth. Besides truth and lies, there is a whole range of

being.

I AGREE RICHARD, AND MUST CAUTION MYSELF RE. THE EXCESSIVE USE

OF POLARITIES - EASY TO WORK WITH BUT NOT TRUE TO MANY LIFE

SITUATIONS.

Some people choose self sacrifice, lying to themselves and others

about the truth not to feel better but for a larger reality. In

this sense, its not a lie, but a deliberate act of

non-adaptation.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THE PERSON WILL DREAM THE TRUTH, THAT,

FOR EX. HE REALLY ISN'T SACRIFICING FOR A LARGER REALITY, BUT HIS

WIFE HAS JUST LEFT HIM AND HE IS SUBCONSCIOUSLY SUICIDAL - OR

WHATEVER. TO REPEAT: IF IT IS ALWAYS IN OUR INTEREST TO KNOW

REALITY FOR WHAT IT IS, THE DREAM WILL COME TO THE RESCUE. THE

DREAM IS ALWAYS WORKING IN THE INTEREST OF SURVIVAL. NOW OF

COURSE THERE ARE EXAMPLES WHERE KNOWING THE TRUTH -- THAT MY

WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH MY BEST FRIEND - MIGHT CAUSE

CONSIDERABLE PAIN, WHERE NOT KNOWING MIGHT BE BETTER. BUT

EXAMPLES LIKE THIS WOULD BE THE EXCEPTION, AND EVEN WITHIN THAT

GROUP, LONG TERM RESULTS MIGHT SHOW THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN

BETTER TO KNOW RIGHT AWAY.

Concrete reality is only one reality. By the way, it has never

been scientifically verified that survival is better than not

surviving.

TRUE, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF . . . WE MUST PRESUPPOSE IT.

This is an assumption that is untested and probably untestable.

I think it would be productive & powerful tool to develop the

notion of dreams as compensation for self-deceit. But to get to

an empirical basis for this, I think you might want to re-work

your notion of the unconscious.

COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THIS.

I guess I get hung up on this idea of the subconscious truth in

general. You are using it in a specific way which is more

understandable. If you say that one's unconscious "knows" the

truth, what you are getting at(I think) is that it knows the

places where we have been deceiving ourselves, and if this is not

going to be adaptive, it will reveal them in a dream.

So there is a mix here of the unconscious knowing both where we

have deceived ourselves and what is adaptive (for the individual,

I assume - or for the group?) In this sense, this begins to look

like what is generally called intuition - a semi-conscious

grasping of the picture as a whole. This could be developed to be

quite useful, dreams as intuitive grasps of reality.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>Whether we would be a better or more improved species >if we

were more conscious of our dreams is another question. Our

starting >point must be that in the absence of deliberate

(professional) >intervention, dreams play only a small role in

the decisions which >determine the outcome of individual

existence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Why is it we can't assume that dreams are not just like other

body parts, they are essential, they function pretty well without

intervention and yet can be improved with the consciously applied

techniques (proper nutrients and diet, exercise, ect) ?

I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE INTERFERE WITH DREAMING PROPER, BUT DREAM

ANALYSIS, LIKE A MUSCLE THAT WORKS WELL, CAN BE MADE TO WORK

BETTER WITH INTERVENTION AND TECHNIQUE. PHILOSOPHICAL

OBSERVATION; I BELIEVE THAT SELF AWARENESS IS SO UNDERDEVELOPED

SO AS TO BE PATHOLOGICAL IN MANY INSTANCES, THAT DREAM ANALYSIS,

IN PARTICULAR, COULD REVOLUTIONIZE THE WAY WE KNOW AND THINK

ABOUT OURSELVES. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Me too.



> Therefor, excepting dreams which anticipate urgent

bodily functions (diarrhea etc.), I >propose that

all(significant) dreams, without exception, oblige the dreamer to

subconsciously >come to terms with truths or facts the conscious

mind has distorted or misinterpreted.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Slightly unclear here. If we have to come to terms in the

realm that already knows the truth (didn't you say the

unconscious has this reality factor? ) then is the dreamer really

coming to terms?

OBLIGE, IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE

TRUTH SOMEWHERE - IN THIS CASE, THE SUBCONSCIOUS IF WE ARE GUILTY

OF CONSCIOUSLY DISTORTING THE TRUTH. AT A MINIMUM, THE DREAMER,

ONCE HAVING DREAMT, COMES TO SUBCONSCIOUS TERMS WITH THE TRUTH.



But I get your drift. Its a little limited for me to say that

*all* significance must be in the separation of truth and

falseness, and that our survival depends on this.

I AGREE. THIS IS OF COURSE TOO BLACK AND WHITE, BUT AT THIS

EARLY POINT, I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SOME BASIC POINTS - TO BE

REFINED MUCH LATER, IF I BECOME CONVINCED THIS IS WORTH PURSUING.

This is one of many significant processes that I involve myself

with. Maybe I can accept this as a noble and wonderful path?



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>But in the dream, the dreamer does not come to actual terms

with a fact or truth.=//= test cut here see above =//=

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It might be easier to say the unconscious has many if not all of

our views, be they distorted or not, and this is what the dream

plays with.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO GROUND TO ARGUE WITH THIS, BUT I PERSONALLY

BELIEVE THAT DISTORTION IS ANATHEMA TO THE UNCONSCIOUS, THAT FOR

THE MOST PART IT SIMPLY RECORDS OR REGISTERS WHAT THE SENSES HAVE

RECEIVED.

This is more the esoteric tradition's viewpoint, that ego

consciousness is the distorter of truth while the unconscious

hold the clear picture. I like to think we are cooperating with

one another.

IF I TRULY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE HONORABLE INTENTIONS TOWARD ME,

BUT IN FACT, BECAUSE YOU KNOW OTHERWISE, THAT YOU PLAN TO DO ME

HARM, I WILL NOT HAVE TO DREAM BECAUSE I WILL HAVE DISTORTED

NOTHING. DREAMS CANNOT SAVE US FROM THE CONTINGENCIES OF

LIFE, OR FROM THE EVIL IN MEN'S HEARTS. THEY CAN ONLY SAVE US

FROM OURSELVES. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



> Why must dreams always be symbolic or disguised?



Right! Both symbol and disguise are ways of looking at the

dream, not necessarily something the dream practices.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>If I>am unwilling to come to terms with a particular truth

during my waking, I will certainly >not come to terms with it

during sleep if the setting of the dream is exactly the same as

in reality. >Therefor, the dream must use symbols and/or

unfamiliar settings/dynamics, to cajole the >dreamer into

entering a situation which tricks him into acknowledging a truth

he has consciously >avoided or distorted during his waking.

THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THE LETIMOTIFS OF THE THOUGHT I'M TRYING TO

DEVELOP

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This is an interesting take. You could back this up with the

dream content analysis work of Calvin Hall and Bob Domhoff that

shows that we rarely dream of work, though we spend oodles of

time there.

BUT I'LL BET WE DREAM A LOT ABOUT OUR INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS

THAT TAKE PLACE AT WORK, AS A RESULT OF DELIBERATE SELF-DECEPTION

ABOUT OUR TRUE FEELINGS ABOUT THOSE WHO WORK ABOVE US AND BELOW

US.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> What is the utility of dreams if we apparently forget

most of them, and those we remember >we are unable to interpret?

How can I act upon a dream if I don`t remember it? If,

for >example, on an esteem scale, my boss` esteem for me is 5 out

of 10 while I believe it to be 7 out of 10, it`s hardly necessary

that I remember the dream that obliges me to acknowledge the

disparity. However, if the situation is life threatening, or

carries potentially significant consequences, the content and

frequency of the dream will adjust accordingly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here is something you could test to find significance of

occurrence.

ESPECIALLY FOR DISTURBING DREAMS.

>For example, if I continue to deny that my understanding of

Hegel is inadequate, and refuse to >recognize the very real

possibility that I will be dismissed from the department, the

occasional dream on the subject may become a recurring dream.

Thus increasing the likelihood that I will become conscious of

it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Again, I would not oppose truth and falseness, but rather that

the deluded Hegel teacher holds various viewpoints, some of which

the ego responds to and recognizes, others which are not well

assimilated. Whether *any* of these views correspond to reality

is another issue that in the end will be unresolved. The "fact"

of the teacher not knowing Hegel very well is not a fact at all.

You may feel he doesn't know Hegel, the students may feel he

doesn't know Hegel, the administration may feel he doesn't know

Hegel and Hegel may be rolling over in his grave.

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT POINT. THE STUDENTS MAY FEEL HE KNOWS

HEGEL, BUT IF HE DOESN'T, BUT CONVINCES HIMSELF THAT HE DOES, HE

WILL DREAM. HOWEVER, IF HE NEEDS TO KNOW HEGEL ONLY ENOUGH TO BE

ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY TEACH IT, AND HE KNOWS HE KNOWS ENOUGH TO

TEACH IT, THEN HE WON'T DREAM. THIS EXAMPLE ILLUSTRATES HOW

RELATIVE ARE DREAMS. THE SAME KNOWLEDGE OF HEGEL APPLIED TO

DIFFERENT SITUATIONS WILL RESULT IN DIFFERENT DREAMS, OR NO

DREAMS AT ALL. THIS POINT AGAIN DEMONSTRATES (FOR ME AT LEAST)

THAT WE MUST RID OURSEVLES OF THE NOTION THAT PATTERNS CAN BE

FOUND IN DREAMS. EVERY DREAM IS UNIQUE AND IS THE RESULT OF A

VERY VERY PARTICULARIZED PERSONAL SITUATION.

AS AN ASIDE, I'M NOT AT ALL IMPRESSED WITH THE ANALYSES

THAT ACCOMPANY DREAMS THAT ARE POSTED IN THE VARIOUS DREAM

REPOSITORIES ON THE NET. NOT AT ALL.

FOR EXAMPLE, DREAM # 970730 WRITHING WOMEN. IF, AS I CLAIM, WE

DREAM FOR OURSELVES IN ORDER TO PROVIDE(UNDISTORTED) INFORMATION

FOR OURSELVES, THE WOMAN HAVING THIS DREAM PROBABLY, THANKS TO

MEDIA OR WHATEVER, BELIEVES THAT OBTAINING A CERTAIN APPEARANCE

WILL MAKE HER HAPPY, THAT THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THIS LOOK, OR

WHATEVER, AS PRESENTED ON TV OR WHEREVER, ARE HAPPY. THE DREAM

IS TELLING HER THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY, OR BEAUTIFUL, OR

WHATEVER. IN THE BROADEST TERMS, IT SEEMS THAT THE DREAM IS

CORRECTING A FALSE SET OF VALUES SHE IS ASPIRING TO.

But what is the ~measure~ that he doesn't know Hegel? Its a

conventional or operational reality, not an essential truth.

EXACTLY. THIS IS VERY INSIGHTFUL. AND I BELIEVE THAT DREAM

ANALYSIS WILL RECOGNIZE THESE SUBTLETIES, WHICH INCLUDE OUR

DISTORTIONS. AS LONG AS WE BELIEVE A PARTICULAR STANDARD TO BE

CORRECT, OR MEANINGFUL, OR SIGNIFICANT, OR VALID, THERE WILL BE

NO NEED TO DREAM. IT'S WHEN WE DECEIVE OURSELVES VIS A VIS OUR

RELATIONSHIP WITH THE STANDARD. IF THE STANDARD CHANGES, AND WE

DELIBERATELY CLING TO THE NOW INVALID ONE, THEN WE WILL DREAM.

What if he sticks to his guns, writes a radical book on Hegel

and becomes the interpreter of Hegel for a whole new generation?

What will the administration that fired him say then? They can

only say he didn't know Hegel according to a particular standard,

some kind of consensus reality. What the dreamer would try to

put together (in your theory with modifications) would not be

truth and false but two (or more) viewpoints that are at odds at

the moment. The dreamer in this sense is relived from having the

burden of Truth and False, and rather situated between various

truths or views that he may or may not reconcile to his advantage

(advantage being another assumed meaning structure).

I GUESS I DIAGREE WITH YOU HERE, RICHARD. THE DREAMER IS ONLY

RELIEVED AFTER HE HAS DREAMED. BUT I AGREE THAT THE TRUE FALSE

DICHOTOMY IS LIMITING. I GUESS I'M STUCK ON THE POINT THAT THE

BASIC REASON WE DREAM IS ALWAYS THE SAME -- AND I'M MAKING

EVERYTHING CONFORM TO THAT PREMISE.

Jung suggested that the dream is holding an imagistic

solution to these viewpoints, some conscious, some unconscious.

Image here is used to mean "give me an image of what happened"

rather than a literal picture.

YES

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>Even at >this point I may not understand the dream, but I will

have registered the mood of it (the mood of inadequate

understanding of something), and this might be enough to make me

act. If this fails to register, the recurring dream may become a

nightmare, from which I will awake, profoundly disturbed, with

the dream fresh in my conscious mind. At that point, I will

probably, at a minimum, be motivated to question the dream. If

the dream contains even a passing reference to Hegel, this might

be enough to finally encourage me to acknowledge the consequences

of not having an adequate understanding of Hegel.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I like this approach to dream - that we read them for what was

missed in waking life. Hillman goes berserk around this, feeling

that by reading the dream for helping out in day-world life, we

crush the real compensation that is going on, that consciousness

itself is the culprit and we all in the 20th century belong to

the Cult of Consciousness.

I THINK I'D RATHER BELONG TO THE CULT OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAN THE

ALTERNATIVE.

Hey, I thought you liked the honesty of the unconscious? :)

The dream that leads away from consciousness and compensates

consciousness is not necessarily going to be "good" for our day-

world projects - will probably draw us away from them and into

the depths of the soul, a place we had all but lost in late 20th

Century Capitalism.

But I like to read the dream for the unknown, setting aside

for a moment both day and night world projects, that too being a

boundary that dreams will play with.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> The nightmare is perhaps the most noteworthy of dreams

because its>design (purpose) is such that, as a response, it

deliberately affects the conscious, awoken mind; it`s the

tight-rope the dreamer walks between the subconscious and

conscious. Its becomes an appropriate (and arguably necessary)

response when the organism determines that its (upper mind)

capacity for self-delusion is life-threatening, and/or carries

significant negative consequences.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Again, this is something you could test. Do people who score

higher on self-deception also have more nightmares?

YOU WOULD THINK THAT THERE WOULD BE CONCRETE DATA ON THIS???????

I haven't seen any.



This will be tough to operationally define. Content analysis

says that people score more than half of their dreams as

unpleasant (I though you might like that) but this means that

more than half of the dreams we have are a kind of low level

nightmare.

BY MY RECKONING, MOST OF OUR DREAMS SHOULD BE UNPLEASANT -

ASSUMING THAT COMING TO TERMS WITH CERTAIN TRUTHS WE HAVE

AVOIDED DURING OUR WAKING IS UNPLEASANT.

Your thesis could be furthered by the work of Alan Seigel who

did dream groups after the oakland fire where dozens of families

lost their homes. The worst nightmares were with the guilty

neighbors whose houses *didn't* get burnt.

OUR DREAMS USE THE EVENTS IN OUR LIVES FOR THEIR CONTENT. BY MY

THEORY, PEOPLE WHO FEEL GUILTY BUT AREN'T DECEIVING THEMSELVES

ABOUT IT WON'T DREAM. WHAT MAKES MORE SENSE TO ME IS THAT PEOPLE

WHO DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT THING DURING THIS CRISIS, AND DECEIVED

THEMSELVES ABOUT IT, WOULD HAVE BAD DREAMS ABOUT IT.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>Therefor, children, in whom fantasy and unreality have been

nurtured since birth, should >experience more nightmares than

adults -- as a measure of their unhealthy reluctance to

relinquish their fantasy life.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The current thinking on primary process - the unhealthy fantasy

mechanisms of projection, denial, conversion reaction,

displacement, condensation, symbolizations, ect, are now being

reviewed. It used to be thought that primary processes remained

undeveloped and infantile. Now it is felt that these processes

develop right along with reality testing ego functions. There is

no "relinquishing" of fantasy, only repression or development.



DO YOU BELIEVE THIS???

(RCW2): I see that creative, semi-conscious processes of

creativity and intuition develop right along side rational

processes and reality testing.



Unreality is another story, one usually told by the cultural

dominate reality. Be careful to distinguish between the unreality

of concrete, sociological and cultural realities.

Most now feel that the problem is not relinquishing fantasy

life, but differentiating between fantasy and reality - both

realms being useful and important in their own domains. If you

look at lucid dreaming, the examples are abundant. Once a person

*realizes* they are dreaming, that they are in a ~fantasy~ or

imaginal realm, then the nightmare is no longer. So what if a

dream killer stabs you, you are only dreaming. The person can

still be quite delusional about what in waking life really will

make a difference in their life, but quite comfortable in the

imaginal realm - no nightmares or bad dreams here.

AS AN ASIDE, RICHARD, I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY ONE WOULD WANT TO

AWAKE IN A DREAM IN ORDER TO CONTROL (and corrupt it) ITS

CONTENT? DOESN'T THIS DEFEAT THE PURPOSE OF THE DREAM, IF THE

DREAM'S PURPOSE IS TO CORRECT OUR CONSCIOUS DISTORTIONS OF

REALITY .

(RCW2): This is a hotly debated topic these days, the benefits vs

consequences of controlling the dream. Some feel that control is

disrupting a process that should be able to flow naturally,

others feel that there is no conflict in adding consciousness to

natural processes. I feel its too late to say we shouldn't

influence our dreams. Once we are aware that dreams are, then we

have conscious and unconscious desires, fears, plans, thoughts

and feelings around them. With this consciousness may come

responsibility. We are a long way off from knowing which

influences cause what reactions on a grand health-hygiene

viewpoint. As to the reasons for becoming lucid, well, its kind

of like sexuality, its hard to tell someone else why it is worth

it, as the activity is generally inherently rewarding and

pleasurable. But not for everyone.

You may also want to check out Ernest Hartmann's work on

nightmares. He has a theory about thin and thick boundary people.

Thin, porous malleable personalities are more susceptible to

nightmares than thick, rigid personalities.

IF SCIENCE EVER CORROBORATES THIS, IT WILL BLOW MY MIND.

(RCW2): Well, remember there that it is *dream recall* we are

talking about. You could still hypothesize that rigid people

*have* more nightmares, they just don't ever recall them.

Though my experience is that rigid folks have so much

trouble with the imaginal realm that it gets deeply repressed.

My feeling is that if you can't swim, you better stay out of

deep waters. I feel dreams are not recalled by animals. Since

they can't distinguish between real-memory-imagination (like

little kids) it would be very un-adaptive to recall dreams.

EXACTLY

That mouse that was over the fence a minute ago when I was

asleep, my actually turn out to be rover. People, however,

developed language, which can be used to represent things that

aren't present. By saying the dream right after waking, the dream

recall is increased. Probably there is a "saying" during the

dreaming as well. Thus the short to long term memory function

that is naturally turned off for dreams is bypassed. Folks who

practice this begin to recall more dreams and will occasionally

forget they are dreaming and run into some horrid - er, ah,

truths and beasts.

However, this is sure not the whole story. Combat Trauma

victims have dreams that repeat over and over, sometimes for

years.

I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT COMBAT TRAUMA VICTIMS WHO SUFFER FROM

RECURRING NIGHTMARES HAVE DIFFICULTY IN JUSTIFYING KILLING OR

WHATEVER - THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY HAD NO

CHOICE ETC., BUT SOMEHOW, THEY KNOW THEY DID HAVE A CHOICE, THEY

DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THAT PARTICULAR WAR ETC. TRUE BELIEVERS, WHO

FOUGHT IN THE SAME TRENCHES, WILL NOT HAVE TO DREAM ABOUT IT.

New therapies that involve dream-reentry and alternative endings

have now made inroads to helping these people, but they never

asked for these horrible re=play dreams. I don't think they are

fooling themselves. I think they have become stuck in the literal

and damages their movement in the imaginal. Perhaps you can work

an angle where they need to come to grips with a new level of

reality which they are denying in their fixation on this past

event. (I.e, going on would entail giving up some forms of

self-delusion about how they can't control everything, or not

everything is good, ect,)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>If this can be scientifically verified, it follows that

children raised in primitive cultures (i.e. raised more

realistically) should be less prone to nightmares than

Disneyland`s children?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The current anthropological take on primitive cultures is to

say there *are* no primitive cultures. They are not raised more

realistically or falsely than any other culture, they are simple

a culture that survives or it doesn't and the practices are tied

to their environment. My guess on the kids with the most

nightmares are the ones that 1. Don't differentiate well between

concrete reality and imaginal reality I AGREE and 2. Have general

feelings of helplessness in their family or lack of it. Note

that kids have more animal problem dreams than adults.

PROBABLY BECAUSE ANIMALS, AS IN STORIES OR CARTOONS, PREOCCUPY

CHILDREN MORE THAN ADULTS.

When adults get into stressful new situations, they tend to have

dreams like when they were children. Its as if a marker gets set

up. These markers may help your thesis about stress reduction and

dreams.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>Or an adult who is very realistic about himself should dream

>less (perhaps require less sleep) >than someone who is

>unrealistic about himself? {Buddhism maintains that the

>enlightened Buddha doesn`t dream? Because he has rid himself of

all his delusions?} The challenge is to submit what is now mere

theory (with perhaps some predictive value) to the rigors

ofscience.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rob - you might want to keep an eye out for the upcoming

book by Gackenbach and LaBerge on dream lucidity and eastern

spirituality. There is a little in their last book on

Gackenbach, Jayne (Ed.), (1987). Sleep and Dreams: A Sourcebook.

New York: Garland Publishing, Inc (original Pub 1986).

The tests with the long term mediators that can stay conscious

during the sleep cycle indicate that instead of dreams "going

away" they simply are something going on while the meditators

remain calm and watchful.

THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE

This jives better with the Buddhist idea that when enlightenment

occurs, nothing changes, its just that it is more so, the apricot

jam is more apricotly, the blue sky more blue.





> Dreams represent an extremely rich, but untapped natural

>resource, much like the sun`s >energy. In light of increasing

>demographic pressures and dwindling natural resources,

>inter-human >relations are becoming more and more strained as we

>look to the next century. Dreams, as a source of knowledge,

>might be used to relieve some of these pressure points; but

>this is to put the cart before the horse. If dream analysis is

to have any epistemological credibility, its first priority must

be to establish a sound scientific foundation for itself. (Not

unlike what Kant tried to do for knowledge). THE END

AS YOU CAN SEE, RICHARD, I AM, BY CONVENTIONAL STANDARDS, TAKING

A VERY BLINKERED APPROACH TO THIS - BUT I SUPPOSE I WILL CONTINUE

ALONG THIS PATH UNTIL SOMEONE, OR SOMETHING PROVES TO ME THAT I'M

CATEGORICALLY WRONG, OR SIMPLY ON THE WRONG TRACK. IF NOTHING

ELSE, MY STUBBORN OPPOSTION TO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF MY LIMITED AND

UNTESTED THEORY MIGHT PROVOKE SOME INTERESTING DISCUSSION AND

REFLECTION, AND DREAM ANALYSIS MIGHT BENEFIT IN SOME SMALL WAY.

BUT THE SUBJECT DOES FASCINATE.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some last notes. epistemological credibility? Well, I think

epistemology has itself crashed into the dust of not being able

to justify itself, but it would be interesting to see this

developed for intellectual curiosity sake.

THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT WE ALWAYS KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT WHATEVER IT

IS WE ARE TRYING TO KNOW. THEREFOR, THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WE

CAN SAY, THAT APPROXIMATES KNOWLEDGE, TO THE QUESTION: WHY DO WE

DREAM?

Dream research itself seems so hopelessly split, much like

philosophy was before Kant. One side focuses on the mechanisms of

function, the other on the uses of dream in the project of making

life meaningful and giving it sense. I've already mentioned

some research directions on function, the other side, the

investigation of dreams as valuable therapy and self-enhancement

tools is less developed. I recommend the following study as a

jump off point for this second path:

Hill, Clara E., Diemer, R., Hess, S., Hillyer, A, and Seeman, R.

(1993). Are the effects of dream interpretation on session

quality, insight and emotions due to the dream itself, to

projection, or to the interpretation process?

Dreaming, 3(4), 269-280.

These type of studies compare various dream analysis

techniques to other texts and then try to find the place of the

dream in that context. This approach drops any notion of the

dream as a message from the unconscious and rather focuses on the

dream as something can be useful in different ways depending on

the interpretive system we bring *to* the dream.

IF DREAM ANALYSIS IS TO BE SCIENTIFIED (AN ENORMOUSLY

PROBLEMATIC UNDERTAKING) THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE

RIGHT ANSWER TO THE MEANING OF A DREAM., UNLESS THE DREAM IS

ADDRESSING SEVERAL ISSUES SIMULTANEOUSLY. THIS IS WHAT DREAM

ANALYSIS EXPERTS SHOULD BE AIMING FOR?

I think it was Avens who said, we give meaning to the dream,

and then it reveals its significance. In this sense our science

can investigate the relationship between various interpretive

systems and dreams. Note: a lot of people want to leave

hermeneutics & interpretation behind altogether. This includes

the Lucid dream movement, mutual dreaming, pro-active dreaming,

psychic creative dreaming, dream reentry and other various dream

approaches. These radically change the meaning of a dream.

Instead of being something we decode, it is a realm into which we

enter. In this sense , all the baggage of the dayworld is brought

along and questions of what folks are doing there and why they

are doing it are usually answered in the same way we ask this of

life in general.

I hope these reflections are all taken as friendly comments.

ABSOLUTELY. I HOPE MY COMMENTS ON YOUR COMMENTS DON'T SOUND TOO

PRESUMPTUOUS AND/OR CATEGORICAL. I'VE SIMPLY MAPPED OUT A

POSITION, AND FOR THE TIME BEING, I'M GOING TO DEFEND IT UNTIL

I'M CONVINCED IT'S NO LONGER WORTH DEFENDING. WHICH ISN'T TO SAY

THAT THERE ISN'T CONSIDERABLE ROOM FOR EXPANSION AND ELABORATION.

YOU HAVE ALREADY FLOODED MY MIND WITH IDEAS WHICH ARE STILL

GERMINATING, AND FOR THIS, I WILL AGAIN THANK YOU.

I like the ideas you are developing and feel they could be

expanded to provide some powerful tools in dreamwork, as well as

contributing to cognitive psychology and philosophy as well.

Richard rcwilk@aol.com













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Debriefing for an Accent into Lucid Freedom

An Interview and interview with Dolphina



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" Dreams do not make logical sense. They are a mosaic, a puzzling

portrait of pieces that combine with other pieces to make

something altogether unique. "

Dolphina solyluna@cruzio.com



Dolphina's early lucid dreams unfolded in 1993 into the Dreaming

Of Lucid Freedom In America project when she realized what could

be created from the power of dreams. Dophina combines her early

experiences of lucidity with other forms of freedom to provide an

online program for those interested in practicing remote

destination traveling and establishing continuity with

the dreaming body.



Richard Catlett Wilkerson (RCW): Dolphina, you mentioned having

lucid dreams by the age of Seven. What kind of lucid dreams were

they?

A: I say that Dolfina has had lucid dreams since the age of seven

because that is when I recall realizing that I had power to make

choices about the outcome within dreaming. Actually, In my

recall, I have memories going back to being a baby. But I do not

recall being lucid.

(RCW): What kinds of things did you create from the power within

your dreams as a child or did this come later?

A: I have to say that my intentions in dreaming were quite

childish at times and not so childish at other times. I did a lot

of wishing for things, like a new bicycle. So I would create

things I wanted in my day life and experience them in dreaming. I

recall being quite disappointed when I awoke. However, I also

realized that there was a connection between dreaming and things

that occured during the day. I could will my self to become sick

if I did not want to go to school. I mean really sick. I had an

innate knowledge that my wishes had a certain reality.

I used to ask my dream beings questions. I asked everyone

questions. Yet, I knew, that if I ever really wanted to know

anything about reality, all I had to do was ask and an answer

would come back to me.



(RCW): You mention at your web site that due to your early

religious training, you did not feel safe to speak openly about

beings in you dreams.

A: I grew up with a lot of mixed up messages. My parents were

raised Catholic but I was not. My mom tried out several churches

from Baptist to Mormon. My extended familiars were also trying

out various religions. Although babtized Baptist, I had a range

of influence. I could see the contradictions, really, about the

age seven. I kept asking questions about God and religion.

Because of religious confusion, I merely kept asking my inner

guidance. I figured if there was a God, God would talk to me.

(RCW):Did you record or rehearse dreams to remember them?

A: In a sense, yes! I would lock my self in the bathroom and talk

to my self. I had skits of my self talking with other parts of my

self. I would go to a nearby field and watch bugs on the wild

grass and ask questions to my guide and wait for answers. I would

listen to all of the adults around me and memorize their

conversations. I got into trouble around my family a lot for

repeating what every one said. I used to practice listening

through the walls and aiming my attention to adult conversations

in other rooms.

(RCW): What do you feel the most important lessons were these

beings taught you?

A: Trust in a higher power, a force of nature, my inner guidance.

(RCW): How did the early out of body experiences [OOBE] fit into

this? Did you also keep quiet about these experiences?

A: I had out of body experiences at nap time at school. I had a

lot of energy and felt like I wanted to play, all the time. So, I

experienced leaving my body as a rebellion against naps. I did

not know that they had any meaning until I was in my early teens.

At that time, I had been having nightmares about Nuclear War and

that I was the last survivor. I talked to my Great Aunt about my

dreams and when I described the out of body experiences, she

encouraged me to believe that what I experienced was real and of

a spiritual nature. Of course, I did not believe that because I

had not asked the pertinent questions in my life yet. All I knew

was that I had these experiences and I did not know that they

meant anything at all.

(RCW): In college, you dreaming about visiting parallel

dimensions of reality. What was this like, and how did you

recognize that this was a valuable space?

A: My experiences during college were the mind blowers of my

entire life! For one, I was not able to sleep well. I had hit a

point of being extra-sensorily aware of my self and my

surroundings. I was seeing from my inner vision and I was freaked

out, scared that I was going crazy. I had written a novel, which

took about six months to write. It was a fiction novel about two

women who had a past life as a man and woman who had an affair in

Ireland. I could not sleep without the character dialogues coming

out of my head, my inner ears. I just wrote and wrote furiously

every night from around 4pm to 3am.

I ended the story line and had reworked it to the point where I

hit blocks on doing further work on it. After I stopped, I began

entering dreams by looking down a black tunnel which opened up to

a video/dream screen. I watched my dreaming but I was not sure

what it was because it looked and felt real.

My fear kept me from sleeping well. I felt like I never got any

sleep. I was on constant vigilance that dream beings were going

to take me away. And so I became extra-aware of my dreams. I did

not want to be controled by dream beings. As I became more aware,

I noticed that I was entering other worlds. I got more terrified

but felt that I needed to watch my self to understand what was

going on with me. My curiosity was equal to my fear.

A typical night would be watching the tunnel open up and viewing

a dream screen at the end. One scene was of a living room that

looked like color schemes from the sixties. I enter the dream

screen and it becomes three-dimensional. To check my reality, I

begin to touch the couch and the furniture. Then, I try

something, I close my eyes. I see another living room with the

same furniture arrangement but with different colors. I open my

eyes and I am back in the first setting. Then, I focus on a part

of the scene and walk through a door. Out the door there is

another world altogether. Like a mosaic, it seems that there is

no continuity except that everything flows right into the next

scene.

Each morning after I experienced a major parrallel reality dream,

I felt like my world had changed. My world was shifting because

my perception of the world and what I could see and feel was

shifting.

The terrifying part was that from day to day, I could not

describe reality. I was losing my sense of a static reality. Not

only that, but if these dream beings were real, then there was

another world, or other worlds inside worlds and that scared me

to think about it. I could not really describe what was happening

to me so I felt that I was becoming an alien from my friends and

family.

(RCW): What is the Dreaming Of Lucid Freedom In America about?

A: Dolfina, from what I have been able to recall and gather, is

my soul mission. When I was a child, beings in my dreams taught

me about the power of dreaming, and told me that some day I would

take this knowledge out into the world. Literally, I felt that I

had been bottling up important knowledge that would some day be

necessary for me to open to the world. The mission letter I

received from my dream had to do about what Dolfina has been

learning as a soul in order to do the service of creating an

atmoshpere where other soul beings can come out of the closet, so

to speak.

Dolfina is a mission to train other lucid dreamers to take their

dreamwork out into the world and express their soul's need to

create a SOUL BASED REALITY vs. a material based reality.

Dreaming Of Lucid Freedom In America is about the Spiritual Ideal

for which America was founded. America was supposedly founded as

a religous refugee santuary. The Ideal America is one in which

people are bound together by a spiritual contract to respect our

likenesses and differences. To take our next step as a country

and leap into the global scene we need to become lucid dreamers

en masse... period. There is no doubt, no question of it. Dreams

are the core of everyone's knowledge; dreaming is the acting out

of that knowledge; lucid dreaming is the disciplined control to

make freewill choices. The age old debate over fate, destiny, and

freewill will be balanced between exploring the dreams worlds and

the outer manifestation of them... the so called "reality" as we

know it.

(RCW): How is Dolphina connected to the website Sol y Luna

Multimedia Productions? Studio?

A: Sol y Luna is a hub of interconnections between other lucid

dreamers who are creating and producing their own SOUL BASED

REALITY material. As one of my co-partners says, "Sol y Luna is a

cooperative of people working from the heart".

(RCW): How did the idea for a Web site come up?

A: I have been carrying notepads and a laptop off and on for

several years. I wanted to publish Dolfina's Dreaming Journal.

However, I could not see a way that printing it would do justice

to it. And I kept searching for the right way to publish it. I

wanted the freedom to independantly publish and oversee my work,

from raw material to finsished material without the middle men of

the publishing industry, who might market it as a commercial

product vs. a SOUL BASED REALTIY CHECK from Dolfina, the being

who showed me how to enter dreaming in a spiritual path.

I had worked on TimePassages, an astrolgy program to teach people

how to do astrology. I was working with the creator, Henry

Seltzer. He was getting started on putting his Astrograpgh

Software on the internet. I did not really pay much attention to

it. I could see potential, but I was interested in writing. At

about that time, in the Dolfina Dream Circle, I met a guy who

encouraged me to start my own website. I still did not see it as

real. I began doing research about the Internet. I guess that I

was still holding onto fear that telling the world about parallel

realities was going to bring chaos into my life due to other

people's reactions. So I did not see Dolfina's Dreaming Journal

going on line until after I had created Sol y Luna. Sol y Luna is

a co-operative venture so I had to lay the ground work because I

wanted to build a support network of other lucid dreamers. I

could see we all needed a forum to create our work. With my

research, I was seeing that the next step in communications is

the Internet. There is no quicker way to access and be accessible

to people, in general and in groups. Sol y Luna evolved to meet

the needs of others who have the need to express their soul work.

In addition, on the Internet, Dolfina can receive immediate

feedback from my audience who are in tune with Dolfina Work.

Dolfina can make direct connections with people around the globe.

(RCW): What are the plans for the future of the site?

A: The future of this site is to create a dynamic site where

people can come together from all parts of the world, create

their own forum that is related to the common goal of Sol y Luna.

An example: if you have been working on a film script and you

want to bring it to life, Sol y Luna will be a hub for artists

and technicians who will work with you. You might find other

writers, editors, stage artists, film artists, etc... The goal is

that you have a soul based project and if you do not have the

money to go to the bigger productions studios, you can produce

your work with others who can share talents, skills, and

resources.

Dolfina Work is a Mosaic of Interactive Dream Training which

provides services for dreamers who aspire to work on their

dreaming practices from within their dreaming. Dolfina Fun is an

experiential tour of parallel realities or multidimensions of

space and time travel. Dolfina is a dream guide who can travel

into other dimensions and actually demonstrate dreaming technique

from inside other people's dreams.

To participate in Dolfina Work, a person can email Dolfina

directly at solyluna@cruzio.com. Dolfina will re-invision, or

remote view the dream and give you customized instructions on

one's personal dream technique. Dolfina's future vision is to

create an on-line university for dreamers who will guide and

train other people in their spheres of influence to do dreamwork.

(RCW): So, Dolphina, what are your favorite dream books?

A: My favorite book as a child was Alice in Wonderland. I knew

that there was a reality in other worlds.

In my last year of college, I ran across Journey to Ixtlan.

During my last summer break, I decided that I needed to stop

being afraid of my dream beings and their multidimensional

worlds. After, I rec'd my letter about Dolfina, as I described, I

came across Journey to Ixtlan. I flipped through it and realized

it was about what I had been going through. I read it within a

few days. I was drawn to go to a used book store in Berkely and

buy a collection of Carlos Casteneda's work. I felt that don Juan

was teaching Casteneda what had been happening to me my entire

life. My dreaming shifted from fear to a sense of communing with

my dream worlds. Of course, as I read Casteneda's work, I began

to recall previous dreams where I had been stumped, stuck. I

began to chart my dreams through the core teachings of don Juan.

I tested his hypothesis from inside my dreams. I did not beleive

anything Casteneda wrote until I had verified its reality from

within my dreaming practice. Casteneda's books put me on the path

of knowing, for certain, that what I had been doing was

Dreamwork.

After reading Casteneda's work, I began researching other

dreamer's work. However, the teaching aspect in Casteneda's books

aligned with my own inner logic and inner illogical mosaic of

perception.

A lot of people have felt that Casteneda's work is flawed. My

question for them is, "How do you know; did you test each set of

practices?"

The real question that everyone either asks or needs to ask is,

"Is phenomena more real that neumena?" What constitutes a real

eperience? Can you prove that a strawberry is sweet? Is salt

salty? Is rain good or bad? In the dreamworlds, one experience

fades into another and there is no dividing line.

(RCW): Do you have a favorite dream?

A: No!

I play no favorites. Replaying a dream, which I can do, is

being obsessed with the images, the holographic quality of the

dream. I need to experience new dreams all the time.

(RCW): Anything else you would like the online dream community to

know about

you and your projects?

A: I would like to say that the most important part of my

dreaming mission is to share the simplicity of dreaming. We are

all dreaming. We hear about it form different sources. Religion

as we know it was invented to train us to see our dream life from

a set of given and regimented rules and routines. Religion caste

the fear of dreaming into so many people. Our underlying social

order is based on fear of the unknown. So we tend to surround

ourselves with objects which we can hold onto and know for

certain that we have something real. Go into your dreams and

explore the other worlds and discover, for your selves what

reality is all about. Don't rely on ministers or scientists. They

are only people too.

Visit the Dreaming Of Lucid Freedom In America on the Sol y Luna

site:

"http://www2.cruxio.com/~solyluna/"

To view other projects or to work with Dolfina privately, go

directly to the Dolfina introductory page:

"http://www2.cruxio.com/~solyluna/dolfina.htm"







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John Fitzsimons interview October 97

"An interview with John Fitzsimons,

leader/teacher/lecturer/counsellor of the

"New Age" group called Aspects"

Question the first-

VQ:Do you keep a dream diary?

JF:No

VQ:If so, for how long have you kept one?

JF:N/A

VQ:Have you a favourite amulet or symbol?

JF:The ankh.

VQ:Do you always wear one?

JF:No.

VQ:or do you regard it more as a "life" symbol?

JF:Yes.

VQ:Do you use a physical, or imaginary, ankh for your own

"psychic protection"?

JF : It depends on the degree of protection required. I like to

keep rituals/items to the minimum. If needed then having

both would have a cumulative effect and may be used.

VQ:Is there anything else "Egyptian" that appeals to you,

JF:Most Egyptian things appeal to me.

VQ:Does that tie in with a past life of your own that you are

aware of?

JF: More like a number of lives. I worked in spiritual areas

then I do so again now.

VQ:In your work with Aspects:

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm

how significant a role do dreams play?

JF:Only as a means to get answers from one's spirit guides

and/or as past life references. Until a person does spirit

communication and/or past life recall consciously.

VQ:I assume that you work more with others' dreams than your

own?

JF:Yes.

VQ :In your work with

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm

how significant a role do dreams play?

JF:Only as a means to get answers from one's spirit guides

and/or as past life references. Until a person does spirit

communication and/or past life recall consciously.

VQ:So if dreams are a "byline",what other techniques do you use

to help people get in touch with their spirit guides?

JF : Prayer, and mediumistic training. Part of that would be

doing spirit guided writing.

VQ:How much dream recall do you use with beginners as opposed

to more "advanced" students?

JF : Everyone is different. If people are used to working

with dreams then they can continue doing so. However

the emphasis is placed on getting guidance from one's

guides "consciously" right from the start.

VQ :Does Aspects take a primarily Christian approach to prayer

and dreamwork?

JF : Aspects accommodates people's existing belief structure. A

belief in a higher force helps. One could say that the

essence of Christianity is emphasized but not orthodox

religious Christianity.

End



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Sex, Symbols and Dreams

A Review of the Work of Janice Hinshaw Baylis, Ph.D

By Linley Joy

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CAVEAT: This article contains sexually explicit description and

language. Some people may find the content distasteful and it

should not be viewed by minors without guidance. This article

does not broach the subject of counseling, sexual or otherwise.

If you are at all worried about your own or someone else's sexual

dreams (e.g. a child) please take steps to get in touch with the

appropriate organizations in your area.

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In this article I am going to take a stroll through the

fascinating territory of sexual dreams. The newly published

_Sex, Symbols and Dreams_ by Janice Hinshaw Baylis, Ph.D deals

specifically with this interesting topic, and I will be looking

at this book more closely as I go.

I have divided this article into three different sections:

1) Introduction (a personal view of sexual dreams)

2) A closer look at _Sex, Symbols and Dreams_

3) Two sexual-type dreams explored in more depth using the word

and image association methods from _Sex, Symbols and Dreams_



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A PERSONAL VIEW OF SEXUAL DREAMS:

The following extracts are taken from my own dream-journal.

"...I'm standing outside in the dark. I am peering through the

curtains of a house into the guest bedroom. I see a huge shape

moving in one of the twin beds and nothing in the other. I know

there should be two sleeping shapes, and this makes me feel

uneasy. Then I am inside the room. What I see repulses me. The

blonde male houseguest is having intercourse with the very young

girl that lives in the house. The girl is 8 or 9, very pretty,

with long straight blonde hair. She is staring straight up at the

ceiling while she is being abused. She has no legs, her body

stops neatly after her groin. The man thinks it's great fun and

somehow convinces me to have a go. I have a small, ugly penis,

onto which I put a condom that has no end. Then I proceed to lie

on top of the little girl and attempt intercourse with her. I

feel nothing. She feels even less than this. I am looking at her

wide eyes, and I can't be entirely sure now that she is

not dead..."

"...Young handsome man. He has entered into a cooking

competition. I break the egg yolk into his soup for him..."

"...I carry a pink mobile phone with me. I am camping with

someone. We arrive at a beautiful terraced camping ground,

looking over a stunning deep blue sea. We are about to set up

tent, when a few truckloads of boy scouts come down the road...."

"...there was a giant oyster cut open and laid out on the rock,

ready to eat..."

"...Rob Deniro and I are in bed. Lovely and gentle. He is

stroking me intimately, and I am embarrassed and just lie still.

'You've got freckles on your back!' he exclaims 'So have I!'..."





It is an interesting point to ponder that our minds don't

discriminate when it comes to dream expression. Almost everyone

has explicit and non-explicit sexual dreams at some point during

their lives, some of which are erotic and extremely pleasant,

others which have the feel of nightmares. Sometimes sexual-type

dreams can be embarrassing or confusing, and often they can feel

inappropriate to our real life sexuality, where in our dream we

are performing sexual acts that we are morally or ethically

opposed to in waking life.

Although we still don't understand fully the workings of the

subconscious mind, sexual dreams have been documented throughout

history and in more recent times have formed the basis of several

books and studies. Folklore interpretations have long been

replaced with broad and tolerant ideas exploring the way sexual

imagery and sexual symbolism help us which can help us with our

understanding of our own dreams.

Since this article is about sexual dreams in general and their

interpretation (and *not* which famous people I dream about)

interesting questions to ask might be - How often are sexual

dreams about sex, and when are they about something else? Also,

how do you know when a non-sexual dream is actually commenting on

your waking sex life.

In applying these questions to the above dreams from my journal,

I discovered some interesting things. The dreams from which these

extracts were taken were never fully interpreted by me at the

time they occurred. When I looked back through my journal I could

see that *most* of the unexplained and unexplored dreams happened

to be the sexually related ones. I asked myself why this might be

the case, and realised that after waking up from each of the

dreams in question I had been COMPLETELY distracted by the

imagery and in some cases by the people I had included in the

dream with me. The strong "WOW" or "YUK" reaction seemed to stop

me dead in my tracks, thus, more often than not the true

'meaning' of the dream was lost.

Famous people, incest, alien sex, growing new genitals, magical

orgasms, rape, true love, childhood sex, teenage sex, sex to make

babies, lust, lust and more LUST...the list goes on.

Whether titillating or terrifying, my sexual dream images are

some of the most vivid and memorable all of my dreams, often

staying with me for many days afterwards. It is this inherent

power that has encouraged me to find out more about them.

So, how can you get past the superficial actions of an intense

sexual dream and then interpret it?



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In this section I'm going to look at _Sex, Symbols and Dreams_ by

Dr Janice Baylis. An enjoyable and entertaining book, that is

crammed full of sexual-type dreams and their interpretations. (If

you ever thought you were the only one to have bizzare, or

fantastic, or frightening sexual dreams - I recommend taking a

look at the variety of dreams contained in this book - ordinary

people, yet fascinating dream material.)

Before diving specifically into word association & symbol

substitution systems, Dr Baylis reminds us of a few important

dream principles, that can apply to any kind of dream.

o Principle 1: Dreams are usually about the dreamers current

life, especially problem areas.

o Principle 2: An image may have different meanings depending on

the individual dreamer and which substitution system the

dream-mind used.

o Principle 3: For one thing to represent another there must be

some link, some similarity or association between them.

o Principle 4: The dream-mind uses more than one substitution

system in each dream.

o Principle 5: Many dreams have a dramatic structure:

- The problem or area of concern

- Development of the problem and/or a solution

- The reaction of the dream-ego

- An outcome



To explore the various levels of sexual-type dreams, _Sex,

Symbols and Dreams_ uses as one of its prime interpretative

tools, various forms of word play and association. Puns,

Homographs (same written form but different meaning) Dictionary

definitions, Jargon and Syllabification (division of a word into

its syllables) are all types of word representations that can be

used by the dream mind to convey a message. Dr Baylis looks very

closely at the language and symbols that have appeared in a

dream, or in the dreamers description of the dream, and then

links these images and/or words, back to the dreamer and the

dreamers real life.

An example from _Sex, Symbols and Dreams_:

"A single woman in her thirties reported this dream:

'I am at a singles party standing around, talking and enjoying

myself. Suddenly my fanny begins to itch. I scratch it descreetly

yet try to ignore it. The itching becomes worse so I leave the

party. I find an empty bedroom in the house. I pull down my

panties and look at my fanny [behind] in the mirror. There are

lots of bites. I know they are insect [sounds like in sex] bites.

I want something to stop the itching. The door opens. I'm so glad

it's two girls who come in and not a guy. They look at the insect

bites. One of the girls goes to the nearby medicine cabinet and

gets a medicine spray. 'I lie down on the bed on my tummy; by now

I'm nude [she is exposed]. This girl sprays the medicine on the

bites. It feels cool and soothing, the itching stops.

I sit up and kiss the girl a long kiss on the lips. I feel loving

toward her but am embarrassed in front of the other girl. I wake

up.' (Baylis Studen Dream Files)

Dr Baylis has this to say about the dream:

'She is at a singles party, a place to meet men; parties often

represent social life. Extending the visual *fanny*, to the word

*behind* and *behind* to *past*, she finds it is her past that is

bothering her. In a bedroom, an area associated with sexual

activity, by reflecting (mirror's function is to reflect) on her

past sexual activity she sees insect (sounds like *in sex* - a

pun) bites. She's been bitten in sexual activity. "I've

repeatedly gotten into a sexual relationship wanting to be

loved," she told me, "only to find that the fellas didn't love

me. They only wanted sex or at least not a commitment. I'm itchy

to find a real love."

'The soothing medicine spray is found and applied by a girl, a

feminine influence. She embraces (by definition *willingly

accepts*) this caring feminine attribute. This is an unidentified

female; it could be a self-loving part of the dreamer. It could

be suggesting a lesbian love, but probably not because of the

embarrassment pictured in the dream...'



In this example the dream seems to indicate a direct relationship

to the dreamers sexual life. However, often, exploration of dream

will point to another waking issue - and sexual activity, like

other 'fundamental' human emotional activities is an excellent

dream vehicle to express these 'other' issues. Perhaps our

dream-mind knows that when 'sex' is used in a dream, we will sit

up and take notice!

Word association and identifying symbolism in dreams, is a very

personal process, and is always influenced by the environment one

has grown up in and the primary language one speaks.

In the English language ('Sex, Symbols and Dreams' is written in,

and deals specifically with the English language) there are a

plethora of words that can have multiple meanings.

As only one of thousands of examples, let us look at what Dr

Baylis has to say about the use of the word "arse/ass_ (spelling

differs across the world) in the very useful "Mini-Dictionary in

the back of 'Sex, Symbols and Dreams'.

"Connotations:

- backassward; in reverse order, from beginning to end; move

backward - wrongly or confusedly, without system

- in arrears, late or behind in payments or finishing something,

such as a job, contract etc.

- wasted communication

- rear entry: get at what is behind something

also: Syllabification: anal/shitty plus intercourse/communication

or inner course; therefore, 'shitty communication' or 'on a

shitty course'.

To me, the word/image "arse/ass_ could represent...well...just an

"arse_! But my life experience suggests many other related

phrases;

"Nice piece of arse/ass_ or "Arse/ass over tit' [also: 'Arse

about face'] or (in some parts of the world) to be "Arsey_ is to

be antsy or irritable. Others are 'Arse-wipe' 'Arse bandit' and

'Silly arse'.

To allow for your own 'true' interpretation of the use of this

word, it might be useful to think of similar words (e.g. bottom,

bum, buttocks) and ask why 'arse' in particular was the one used

in your description/dream and not one of the others.

The words and images that we create in sexual dreams and the

words we use to describe these dreams (for example; sleazy,

fucked, slippery, cock) are worth exploring as concrete symbols

representing a person, action or attitude. Possible questions

could be: "What is it to be "sleazy_?_ "Who or what is fucked?_

'Sex, Symbols and Dreams' uses word association to explore a

large number of common sexual dreams, but it does more than this.

It also raises some important points about sexual-type dreams.

One of these, Dr Baylis herself expresses best:

"Sexual symbolism is only one form the dream-mind uses. I am

making it a special focus of this book to, as I said before, kill

the common misconception that sexual dreams should be taken

literally or dismissed as outrageous."

I, as a fervent dreamer, have never dismissed my sexual dreams,

but as noted earlier, at worst find them disturbing, and at best

deliciously distracting. In 'Sex, Symbols and Dreams', I found

very interesting food for thought, and was more able, upon

reading through the book and studying the examples given, to get

beyond some of the 'superficial' action in my own sexual dreams,

and discover relevant meanings/interpretations for them.

Several of the chapters in the book address quite common

questions about sexual dreaming, and offer practical methods for

answering these questions. For example there is a chapter called

"What's so and so doing in my dream" which I found very useful.

"So and so" might be a stranger, or a family member or your

partner...As one of the largest distractions against interpreting

a sexual dream when it occurs is the HUGE QUESTION - 'Why am I

dreaming sexually about him/her/it?'

The kind of symbol substitution and word association that is used

to interpret the dreams in 'Sex, Symbols and Dreams', requires a

little practice to get the hang of - but once you begin to

associate images and words in this way, the skill grows and with

it the potential to understand your sexual dreams in a new way

and on different levels. Whilst word/image association is by no

means the only way to go about interpreting a sexual dream (or

any kind of dream) it is a very useful system to explore, and can

be very impressive in its simplicity and application.

One of the best ways to share a process, is to "demonstrate" it.

Below are two sexual-type dreams that Dr Baylis has responded to,

using some of the methods described in 'Sex, Symbols and Dreams'.

(CAVEAT: - Dr Baylis does NOT interpret dreams via email - please

see the link below if you wish to read more about the book and Dr

Baylis)

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A LITTLE INFORMATION ABOUT THE DREAMER 'G':

'I'm very, very talkative, and spend a lot of time

planning/organizing/dreaming/working on 'changing' everything

around me. My partner, is the opposite - quiet, more gentle, and

more 'zen-like' (i.e. lets things 'be' - more tolerant about)

life/relationship etc. I am happy at the moment, but a little

frustrated about not being able to 'move' on creatively and

financially.'

DREAM 1: 'POP ON TRIAL'

Pop is in an old-style courthouse. It is a gallery-type room with

benches going steeply up each side. He stands on the wooden floor

in the centre of the room. He has done something horribly wrong.

This is his execution. There are guards watching him from close

by. He has the opportunity to give a little goodbye speech. This

he does, and he says sorry for what he has done, and then says

how much he deserves to die, but how glad he is that they are

allowing him to do it for himself. He then stuffs a giant condom

into his mouth, slowly, I can feel how its choking him. Its

horrible! Eventually when he has it almost the whole way in his

mouth, I can see that there is brown bloody stuff, coming out of

his mouth. I am watching this from one end of the courtroom.

DREAMERS FIRST THOUGHTS ON DREAM 1:

'In general, I suspect the dream is somehow connected to my way

of communicating. Or perhaps just communicating in general. I

(Pop?) have put myself on trial, admitted guilt, then have forced

myself to eat....my own words? my own discharge? I'm not sure

beyond this...

'Pop' is the nickname I use for my real life Grandfather. Pop

Smith. He is a 'character'. A wrinkly, ropey, old, slightly

bigoted, loud-mouthed, one-armed man. He is quite crude,

occasionally sexist, and fairly embarrassing to have around most

of the time. He recently took a trip overseas and paid me and 'M'

[G's partner] a visit.'



DREAM 2: 'SOFT PENIS'

'I'm having sex with a handsome, dark-haired man. He is a very

nice person and I have feelings for him. We are trying to have

intercourse in a bedroom, but I am worried about his penis. Two

things bother me about it. Firstly, it is soft, too soft.

Secondly, around the head of the penis there is a white

discharge. I don't say anything to him about this though, and we

lie on the bed together and continue the attempt at penetration.

Then he mentions that he has '....' (an std), and I'm relieved

that he has not got the white stuff from me, but also I feel put

off by him too. Then he says 'does M know? (about us) and I say

'yes'. He is surprised by this, and then pleased that we are ok.

In another part of the dream I am standing outside a toilet

cubicle. Inside is a girlfriend and her partner. I have come down

here to see if she's ok and ask her to come out. Some

apocolyptical thing has happened in the world - But she has

chosen to spend her last moments in the toilet with her man. They

come out of the cubicle briefly to speak to me, and then they go

back in and shut the door.'

DREAMERS FIRST THOUGHTS ON DREAM 2:

Hmmm....I'm really not sure what this one's about. It might have

something to do with communication too (re: pop on trial) or

perhaps it's actually about sex? Perhaps M is too 'soft' and

'discharges' stuff I don't want to catch (verbally that is). I

really don't know about the toilet cubicle bit - but I like the

imagery, and have a broad sense that this part of the dream has a

positive meaning for me.



DR BAYLIS MAKES COMMENTS ON DREAM 1: 'POP ON TRIAL'

I think you are correct that 'POP ON TRIAL' deals with your

communication style and a bit more, extraversion. From what

you've said I feel that Pop may represent a part of you,

extraversion. Dreams often use exaggerated/extreme personalities

to focus on characteristics. It would be good though to put Pop

on The People Meaning List (see later) and see what comes up.

Aristotle said, "The key to dream interpretation is

resemblances."

Self-description of Dreamer: "I'm very, very talkative

Description of Pop: "loud-mouthed"

Dreamer: "planning/ogranizing/working on 'changing' everything

(does that include the people?) around me.

Pop: "hard to tolerate - very bossy and domineering"

Pop having visited you and M about two weeks before the dream

would become a focus of attention, he would become a prime choice

as a symbol for extraversion and/or control tendencies. Thinking

then of Pop as a symbol for your extravertive style of

communicating/talking/speech, what might the dream be saying

about very, very talkative G?

*Courthouse* - Place of being judged in criminal or civil

offences. Place of sentencing could be the act of putting words

into syntax for communicating! Stands in center of room - being

center of attention, extreme extraverts love this.

*Gallery* - 1. chance to 'play to the gallery' an idiom for

trying to get the attention of the audience.

2. the shallow, undiscriminating general public. He

(extraversion/very, very talkative) has done something horribly

wrong this is his execution.

*Execution* from dictionary: his execution 1. way of performing

a skill i.e. communication (hard to tolerate, often embarrassing

etc.

2. putting to death - Time to put an end to the exaggerated type

of communication/talkativeness.

BOTH CAN APPLY

*Guards watching*: communication needs to be guarded i.e. careful

and discriminating

*Goodbye speech* - parting from that style of communicating

allowed to end it himself (yourself) - Not depend on or wait for

others to confront. Not wait for a crisis but start to work on

this habit yourself now.

*Condom* sounds like *condemn*, a pun for 'found guilty'

Condemnation of the mouth/speech.

*Condom* - control device - function is to prevent fertilization

and growth. - antivenereal device - function is to prevent std's!

(See Dream 2.)

*Choking* - controlling your mouth/speech/words will not be

easy!!!!

*Brown, bloody stuff from mouth* - earthy/shit/crap - "That was a

crappy thing to say." What we say when someone has said something

hurtful "crap" - slang for

1. fecal matter/shit

2. anything cheap, ugly or insulting

3. a public toilet (SEE Dream 2.)

*You are watching* - dream wants you to observe/take notice of

all this commentary on communication style.

*From the courthouse* - from a place of judgment.

This dream could have been a response to a communication problem

on the day before the dream and a response to seeing resemblances

between parts of you and parts of Pop.

I agree it seems to be about your communication style. Perhaps it

could be controlled/toned down some to reach toward a more

balanced, ambivert behavior.

DR BAYLIS MAKES COMMENTS ON DREAM 2: 'SOFT PENIS'

As a part to represent the whole, a synecdoche, the male

distinguishing feature, the penis, can represent a whole male

personality. Perhaps in this case one with a soft personality.

Your description of M: "Quiet, gentle, 'zen-like' i.e. lets

things 'be'."

Scene 1: having sex - having a male-female

relationship/interaction.

The opening of a dream often points to the area of concern - your

partnering relationship. Have feelings for him - with someone you

care about and are attracted to. OPPOSITES ATTRACT.

*Intercourse* - From dictionary:

1. exchange of ideas

2. commerce (financial dealings, a current problem area). 3.

sexual intercourse (symbolically the above two between partners)

Trying to have - not yet succeeding

Worried about his penis - worried about his masculinity traits,

such as, assertion

*Too soft* - not hard enough, can't pierce/penetrate/perform

Don't say anything to him about this - not bringing it out into

the open for discussion.

*White discharge* - pus? - secret/ion from inflamed tissue -

tissue from the mouth inflamed?

Here we are back to the talking/communication style. This time it

is the male's mouth. Not enough talking/communicating can be just

as big a problem as too much.

Is M an introvert as it sounds like he is?

Did not get the white stuff from you - it is from himself and his

reaction to the 'std'

He has '...' a sexually transmitted disease -

Disease in syllables becomes dis - ease/lack of comfort

Sexually transmitted - transmitted/sent between opposite sexes

A lack of comfort in a male-female relationship.

Attempt to penetrate -

1. attempt to force into or through.

2. attempt to perceive the meaning of/understand (not

accomplished yet)

You feel put off - his dis-ease/lack of comfort and his

softness/introversion the opposite of your extraversion tends to

put you off.

'Does M know?' - Is M aware of the situation?

'Yes" - Yes, he is aware though he's not saying anything.

Pleased M is aware - Awareness is the beginning of solution.

Scene 2: outside a toilet cubicle - In American slang "crap' can

mean a public toilet (SEE Dream 1).

Outside/beyond the "crap"/slang for nonsense/cheapness/insults

etc. Be outside this! Observe.

*Toilet* - place to get waste material/'crap' out of your system.

*Cubicle* - From dictionary -

1. bedroom esp. a partially enclosed section in a dormitory 2.

any small part-itioned area(partnering part of your life) such as

a carrell (Place to study as in a library)

*Girlfriend* - friendly female quality. Girlfriend and her

partner - this is about male-female partnering relationship. They

are in the cubicle working on this together.

You've come 'down here'

- into the dream world of sub-conscious mentation.

*Apocolyptical* - From dictionary -

1. revelation/insight/new awareness

2. prophetic

3. Last book of New Testament - about the end times.

*In the world* - your world/life

Last moments - end times

*In the toilet* - as bedroom = area of sexual activity symbolic

of partnering - location of elimination

*With her man* - regarding partnering

*Shut the door* - closure



DREAMERS COMMENTS ON COMMENTS:

First, I'm going to put 'Pop' through the 'People Meaning List',

and afterwards I'll make some comments about your comments. (I

won't put the 'girlfriend' through the list, because she was a

stranger to me in the dream and in life.)

NAME: Pop Smith

RELATION: Maternal Grandfather

JOB: Retired Civil Servant & Airforce Pilot

ERA: Reminds me of being 8 - 14 years old, when I saw him and my

grandmother the most (during school holidays)

CHARACTER: Bossy, doesn't listen, bigoted - but also - witty,

talented

PHYSICAL: Pop has only one arm - Makes a big deal out of

achieving great things all his life in spite of this disability

(e.g. got pilots licence)

PSYCHOLOGY: Large Ego (!) Clever (thinking function) but

certainly not compassionate or sensitive (sensation & feeling

functions). Seemingly oblivious to the feelings of others.

BELIEF: Massive hidden insecurities? About women? (Has triplet

sisters, and was raised by a VERY overbearing mother) He also

believes himself to be truly entertaining and does not stop

trying to fill voids of silence.

OTHER: My mother (another introvert) has done battle against her

father for years. In some ways he represents to me a benign

threat. Someone whom is unpleasant sometimes, but whom I'm not

directly enough connected to (like my mother) to be 'badly'

affected by - at all. Someone whom I have chosen to see the

'good' things in rather than the 'bad'.

DREAMER COMMENTS ON COMMENTS: 'POP ON TRIAL':

G: 'Very, very talkative' Pop: 'loud-mouthed'

Yes...well...two sides of the same coin! The more I think about

it, the more clear it becomes that to me that Pop is

representative (both in the dream and in reality) of me at my

utter worst with regards to the way I communicate. Which I think

is well covered by the phrase 'he has done something horribly

wrong'.

I think it is horrible behavior to hold the floor in the manner

that he (I) does in the dream (and often in real life) - and only

at the point of 'execution' does he (I) cease talking...This

makes me laugh a bit, because I will (in the real) talk about

anything at all, good, bad, ugly, and it would not surprise me

one little bit if I died in mid-sentence (ha ha).

Courthouse: Place of sentencing. I like this pun, and feel it is

relevant. It is a trial by words. Words are on trial. In the end

of the dream it seems as if there is 'finally' nothing left to

say, and the action of swallowing words (condom) seems to make

the silence even more appropriate, yet horrible.

Execution: Yes, it does feel that his (my) execution is symbolic

of stopping the exaggerated behavior.

Goodbye Speech: Not only has he (me) been allowed to 'speak' his

apology and admit his guilt, but the overwhelming feeling is that

he also 'turned himself in' That he (I) is in this courtroom as a

volunteer.

Condom/Condemn: Another great pun - I love this and wouldn't have

made the connection myself!

Condom - Control device: - Function to prevent fertilization and

growth. I agree with this and how it fits into the theme of

exaggerated communication. If a one-sided monologue becomes an

incomprehensible barrage, then naturally, the growth that may

have occurred from a more balanced conversational style is lost.

In that the condom could be seen as a symbol of 'protection, and

aborting growth' I believe that Pop eating the condom, was an act

of swallowing words. a) Being silent. b) Stopping, choking, on

'words' that are seen normally (by me) as good, growth things.

In general: I think our mutual breakdown of the dream is

absolutely correct. I (Pop) sometimes over-talk through some

issues without pause, and have/had been examining this part of

myself around the time of the dream. It is an ongoing issue for

me, and I expect to have more dreams about it (if I can untangle

them!) One further comment: In reality, I sometimes feel that

nothing can stop me 'going on' - perhaps this is why I introduced

such a severe punishment into the dream. I.e. DEATH!

DREAMERS COMMENTS ON COMMENTS: 'SOFT PENIS'

Soft Penis AS Soft personality - yup!

'Soft' as slang in the UK also implies 'wimpy' & 'daft'.

Again, generally I think the associations made are pretty spot

on. I do feel the dream pointed at a 'lack' I feel from my

partner. Worrying about his penis (masculine traits) is apt too -

He has a very well developed female side - In life this is what

attracted me to him, and still does.

Where male traits are power tools, e.g. assertion, penetration

etc... This is perhaps more my focus in the dream. 'Penetration'

for me could mean, penetrating ideas VIA discussion (see Dream

1.)

I felt good when I awoke from this dream, and you touched on it

with he 'did not get the white stuff from you - it is from

himself'. I had been worried around the time of the dream that I

had discouraged him further, from participating fully in our

relationship together.

Does M know? Yes...he does. And HE DOES in reality. This also

adds to the good feeling about the dream. In so far as we

occasionally have problems in our real-life relationship, with

communication (I, saying too much, he too little) - we are both

in love and committed to working all problems out together,

however necessary (or however long it may take). Thus my comfort

at the end of the dream, I think.

I like the implication of meaning going 'down here' into the

sub-conscious realm. Generally I feel that this last bit of the

dream has been tacked on the end as a description of the whole.

To me, apocalypse is something huge and devastating and causes

mass change. Change for me is good, and in this dream I think the

mention of apocalypse is a good thing. A BIG CHANGE!

To change...you have to 'eliminate' - and I like the touch that

the couple are in the toilet together. This says to me that they

are 'eliminating' together - another positive sign.

DREAMERS COMMENTS ON CONNECTION OF TWO DREAMS:

Interestingly enough, when I first sent them both to you - they

were as separate dreams that I had made no connection between.

Now I'm tending to think that they are looking at the same

fundamental relationship issue (communication) and dream one,

'Pop On Trial' is examining MY role in the

relationship/communication, and dream two 'Soft Penis' is

examining M's role in a similar way. There is an extremely subtle

connection, but I do believe it is there - the mood of the dreams

is similar in places too. 'I' in the dream start off being hard

on the other person involved in both cases (i.e. M &

I)...Fascinating stuff. Thank you.

FINAL COMMENTS AND CLOSURE BY DR BAYLIS:

Dream 1 - 'POP ON TRIAL' From Pop on the People Meaning List the

only thing that strikes me is still the resemblance in your

communication styles. Your comment, "Yes - well - two sides of

the same coin." indicates that we are in agreement on that point.

Swallowing the condom may also be an image of accepting the

court's condemnation/judgment. Regarding your comment,

"Overwhelming feeling he/I turned himself in - voluntarily." This

is new information but it certainly fits. Noone brought you to

this dream courtroom but yourself!

Words, like most things, are neutral it is how one uses them that

makes them 'good' or 'bad'.

Dream 2 'SOFT PENIS' Soft as slang for 'whimpy' or 'daft' is good

input - perhaps a bit extreme for this case? Penetrating ideas

are a bit different from penetrating/deep understanding. Both can

apply. The end scene of a dream often shows a prognosis. In this

case apocalyptic. Big Change, yes. And change can or should follw

revelation/insight. How did this strike you? To help each other

learn balance "One has to give up the superior function in order

not to paralyze the first attempts the partner makes." That

applies to both partners. As long as the communication issues

remain (Usually as long as the relationship remains!) your

dreams will comment/guide. Often this will be in response to

happenings the day before the dream. Jotting down a few notes in

your dream journal regarding your day

They are your dreams, it is your life and your's is the last

word/judgment. Oh, oh is there an innuendo here?

****END OF DREAM INTERPRETATIONS****

Here endeth my stroll around the edges of this enormous topic.

Thanks to Dr Janice Baylis for her book 'Sex, Symbols and Dreams'

(the details of which can be found by following the link below)

and for the extended interpretation of the two dreams

illustrating some of the methods used in the book.

I recommend Dr Baylis's book to anyone that is interested in a

exploring their sexual dreams a little further. Contained within

the pages are many examples of the association systems in

'action', several very useful charts and lists (see Dreams above

for 'People Meaning List') and for the dream amateur, like

myself, many reassurances, questions and answers that serve to

stigmatize sexual-type dreams and their dreamers.

Fear not your sexual dreams - and happy exploring!



Linley

The book referred to in this article is titled 'Sex, Symbols and

Dreams' and has been written by Janice Baylis, PhD, and recently

published by Sun, Man, Moon, Inc. For a sample of the book,

previews, and ordering information, follow this link:

http://www.galaxymall.com/retail/sun.man.moon/











=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Madame Aionia's Astrological Dreaming Series:

Dreaming Through the Houses: 11th House

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+



<hfile href="http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-articles/ed4-

11aio.htm">





Have you ever wondered how dreams and astrology are connected?

There are many ways we can connect dreams to astrology, and many

don't require that you know all about your Natal Chart. In this

column we will be exploring the symbolic rather than predictive

aspects of astrology. Symbolic astrology attempts to use the

images of astrological to give meaning to one's life and empower

choices rather than predict paths. We do this by imaginal

overlay. In this process we impleach, (poetically

interweave)dream, image, feeling, life and symbol in a way to

evoke a felt sense of the dream's imagery and its position in our

life.

This year we are focusing each month on a different House.

The inner circle of the Natal or Birth Chart is divided into 12

distinct regions know as Houses. They relate to everyday

activates. One will be about physical appearances and

temperament, while another relates to possessions, for example.

Planets and signs fall within these Houses and influence the

areas of focus. We will be watching for images of planets, signs

and other celestial events and hopefully begin to see the

emergence of an astrological chart that dips into birth charts,

dreams, and our waking life.

Eleventh House: Aquarius. Acquaintances, clubs and societies

that meet for particular reasons or causes. Intellectual

pleasures, and other activities, hope and wishes outside the

home.

Dream: I'm at a men's club and I'm playing chess with an unknown

person who seems to be a friend at the club. I notice there is

another game going on across the room. One of the players is very

focused on the game and I think to myself that he must be new,

and hasn't learned to enjoy just playing with others. My chess

friend asks if there will be a speech this year at the annual

chess meeting. I think about what I might say if I'm asked to

speak and how I would like to be able to advance the chess

society by doing away with intense competition. In my plan, after

each move, you would have to say something you liked about the

person you were playing with.

At the mundane level of the Eleventh House, there is a sense

of "Everything in the Shop is seen in the window, but there is

nothing inside." The detached intelligence of the Aquarian house

seems more concerned with superficialities of social &

intellectual life. However, at a more subtle level, there is a

transition from the singular mind to the larger collective mind.

In its positive aspects this transcends group-think where the

participation is voluntary and the individuality is not lost, but

a meaningful part of the larger process. That this takes on a

playful tone in the Eleventh House does not diminish the

significance.

Dream: I'm walking along a beach with my husband just after

sunset. There is a dance group on the beach performing some kind

of primitive circular dance. I notice that everyone is holding a

different object and somehow I know these are like the gifts of

the magi, special gifts of one's individuality. There is a gap in

the circle and I realize I could join and complete the circle if

I had something to give. My husband tells me that I'm the gift

and I join the dance.

This connection/dis-connection with the group also shows up with

those who have not yet found their special social gift.



Dream: There is a birthday next door party for a little girl and

I'm invited. I don't have a present but my mother sends me with

one of her favorite blue scarves. When I go in the house, there

are lots of games being played, but I don't really know what the

rules are and just wander around feeling lonely. I want to give a

gift to the little girl, but feel uncomfortable holding this

adult gift and not a toy. I see a pile of gifts opened on the

refreshment table and they are all dolls and other toys. I feel

like crying when the little girl's mother puts her hands on my

shoulders and tells me that the scarf could be a toy too. I still

feel it is like a gift from my mother and not a gift I want to

give.

This missing link may also show up in people who confuse inner

and outer desires. Many deep people feel that social

organizations are superficial and forced structures, and don't

feel warmly accepted in these gatherings, projects, boards,

religions and other groups. Generally they are seeking a deep

inner connection in an outer realm and feeling disappointed.

These people have difficulties expressing their uniqueness in

ordinary ways. Others overcompensate and become social

butterflies, always hanging on the greatness of others and

avoiding their own contributions or recognition of their

contributions.

Dream: I have to get to the front lobby to announce and escort

the ambassador to the chamber meeting. But there is a lone street

person who has gotten in the building and is trying to steal food

from the reception table. I think to myself that it is someone

else's job to deal with him, but feel uncomfortable. If I go past

him without dealing with him, others will say I was shirking my

responsibility. I also have to bring all the food out for the

reception tables. I feel very frustrated. I also have to make

sure all the place cards are set up on the tables and feel that

all I do is fix things up for other people without having a place

card or table for myself. I leave the vagabond and hope he will

disappear when I come back with the ambassador. While walking

down the hall, I notice I have food in my pockets.

Again, the challenge of this house seems to be in finding one's

uniqueness and profundity in the traditionally superficialities

of group interaction and everyday life.

In dreams we can watch for both the dark and light. The dark

dreams will help us see problem areas where we have become blind

to our own social interactions and the light dreams will offer us

opportunities to emotionally enjoy the simplicities of social

interaction. Together they can guide us into a higher octave of

understanding and practice where the one meets the many and the

many meet the one.

M. Aionia

Next month: 12th House: Beginnings and endings, seclusion,

service to others, self-sacrifice, individuality...

Send in your 11th house dreams to

M. Aionia at aionia@dreamgate.com













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G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S



November-December 1997

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This Month's Features:

NEWS

- Dreamer 1.0 for Windows 95

- Autographed Copy of Our Dreaming Mind Available

- Dream Studies Certificate Program Offered in January

- An Invitation from Robert Bosnack to Participate in

CyberDreamWork

- Dream Consultation with Robert Van de Castle Offered by Mail

- Mayan Dreaming Retreat and Shamanic Training In the Yucatan

with Ariadne Green

- Dream Cruise to the Caribbean

- Interactive Dreaming

-ASD News Updates



RESEARCH & REQUESTS

- Enigmatic "Winged Horse" Study

- Looking for Hearing Impaired Dream Research



WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES

- Dream Translations

- CyberDreamWork

- Psychology and Film

LATE BREAKING NEWS

- Jeremy Taylor In Cyberspace

DREAM CALENDAR for November-December 1997





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N E W S

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Dreamer 1.0 for Windows 95

http://skysystems.com/

Sky Systems has recently brought out a new dream software

program, Dreamer 1.0 for Windows, which is featured in an online

tour at their website. The software includes a dream journal,

extensive search capabilities, a symbol dictionary, the ability

to associate themes and words with dreams, and attach notes or

keywords to journal entries.



Autographed Copy of Our Dreaming Mind Available

Author Robert Van de Castle is offering for sale a personally

inscribed hard cover copy of OUR DREAMING MIND for $25.00

(publisher's price) plus $3.00 to cover postage and handling.

This book has been used as a text in many dream courses and was

selected as a Book of the Month Club alternate selection . A

recent newsletter of the Transpersonal Psychology Association

said that there were over 1800 dream books in print. After

reviewing a large number of dream books , the reviewer stated -

OUR DREAMING MIND "is the most comprehensive overview of dreams

in print" . To receive a copy , send check or money order for

$28.00 to :Robert Van de Castle Ph.D, 2791 Barrsden Farm ,

Charlottesville VA. 22911.



Dream Studies Certificate Program Offered in January

Jan. 16 - March 27

Dream Studies Certificate Program

Twin Lakes College of the Healing Arts

1210 Brommer St., Santa Cuz, CA 95062

(408) 476-2152

Level 1: Personal Dreamwork

In this beginning class, students will develop skills for

understanding the metaphorical language of their dreams. Each

class will include a presentation on a selected topic, group

discussion and experiential dreamwork. Topics will include: Types

of dreams, Dream Ego, working with symbols, archetypes,

the shadow, nightmares, recurring dreams, lucid dreaming, and

active imagination. Students will be introduced to a process of

working with dreams called Dream Interviewing. This method is a

simple and powerful contemporary approach to entering into the

metaphorical language of the dreamscape, and mining it's

treasures. The primary focus of the class will be on learning how

to work with your own dream material.



An Invitation from Robert Bosnack to Participate in

CyberDreamWork

Dreamwork belongs to the oral tradition. It started around

campfires eons ago. For cyberdreamwork to come into existence,

the wait was for voice communication around a cyber-campfire.

This became possible last May (1997), when voice programs made

conference calls in cyberspace of up to five people possible.

Since in cyberdreamwork we deal with voice cues only, we had to

add another cue as well. We have commissioned the Neurodyne

corporation, leader in electro-dermal devices, to produce a

prototype for a device that can read the emotional responses of

the dreamer as expressed in electro-dermal responses (galvanic

skin responses). This tool will be available in December when we

start testing it in the experimental group, (which has been

successfully doing cyberdreamwork since it became possible in

May.) At that time we will also start beta testing, inviting

others to form voice dreamgroups and begin to amass experience

with this new dreamwork form. To begin with, we shall experiment

with methods I outlined in 'A Little Course in Dreams'(Little

Course, published by Shambhala will be out of print until Fall

1998), and more fully in 'Tracks in the Wilderness of Dreaming'

Dell, 1997. At a later point we will open up to other dreamwork

methods that can function effectively in cyberspace. Anyone

inerested in the beta test phase, please contact our webmaster,

rsmith@i-2000.com, or visit the website at

http://www.cyberdreamwork.com



Dream Consultation with Robert Van de Castle Offered by Mail

Robert Van de Castle, author of "Our Dreaming Mind", is offering

a dream consultation service through the mail. He needs two

dreams to work with and the dreamer will also supply some answers

to standard questions about the dreams that he will explain in

advance. He will also need the dreamer to complete some brief

personality surveys that he has developed. He will then integrate

the material from the two dreams with the personality material,

and provide a 30 minute audio tape of his comments and

impressions, for a fee of $50. If interested, contact Robert

Van de Castle to receive the necessary forms and instructions by

email at RVdeCastle@aol.com, or regular mail at: 2791 Barrsden

Farm , Charlottesville VA. 22911



Mayan Dreaming Retreat and Shamanic Training In the Yucatan with

Ariadne Green

The Art of Shamanism and Dreamthread InterActive presents an

exploration and training in the spiritual dimensions of healing

through shamanic journeying and dreamwork.This ten day

initiation, healing, and dreamtime journey into the mysteries,

mythology and archeology of the Mayan culture will be held March

25th through April 3rd, 1998 at Rancho Encantado, a cottage

resort on Laguna Bacalar, Mexico. Explore new dimensions in

healing ...dream....and learn shamanic methods. The program will

offer participants the opportunity to awaken to the wisdom

inherent in the soul through shamanic dreamwork. Each morning

participants will share dreams and learn shamanic methods for

transforming limiting patterns and beliefs through conscious

dreams. A rare opportunity awaits. The itinerary and program

offers time to explore the ruins of Dzibanche' , Kohunlich,

Chicanna, Becan, Xpujil, as well as a museum of the Mayan

Culture. The site of the retreat promises an intimate and

private space with tropical lush gardens, and exotic fruit

orchards. The Ranchos accomodations are private casitas

overlooking the lovely turquioise lagoon. Gourmet breakfasts and

dinners are served in the shady dining palapa each day as part of

our package. Ariadne Green, MS is an urban shaman, and dream

educator who is internationally known for her workshops and for

the 11:11 Planetary Activiation at Haleakala Crater. She

developed the Art of Shamanism a program for those interested in

accessing the spirit The cost of the retreat is $2012 and

Includes: Transportation from Bellize airport to Rancho

Encantado, 10 nights double occupancy accomodations, breakfast

and dinner each day, all guided tours and excursions to Mayan

ruins and a massage. For more information on this retreat,

training and adventure call: (800) 839-3317 or (505) 758-9356

or email: ariadne@dreamthread.com, or write to DreamThread

InterActive, Box 5842NDCBU, Taos, NM 87571.



Dream Cruise to the Caribbean

Blend together a Dream Quest and an Adventure Cruise, and you

have the makings of a uniquely transormative adventure a Dream

Cruise, journeying to the Grand Caymans, Playa de Carmen and

Cozumel, January 30-February 6, 1998. Guided by a team of dream

leaders (including Henry Reed, Rita Dwyer, Roberta Ossana,

Shirley and Chuck Coburn, Rosemary Watts, Kate Elvin and others),

participants in the Dream Cruise will receive hands-on training

in the interpretation of dreams, and participate in processes

that reveal and actuate the creative and healing power in your

dreams. The Dream Cruise has a combination of recreational,

educational and inspirational elements, including dream seminars,

group dreamwork, tours to sacred sites, relaxing music, dance and

night life. An optional Yucatan/Mexico tour is also available the

week preceding the Dream Cruise. Prices begin at $1,299, not

including airfare, and are based on double occupancy, including

all meals on ship, entertainment on board, conference fees and

events. Spaces are limited, so if you're interested call Power

Places Tours for more information: Outside California at 800-234-

8687; In California at 714-487-3450, or visit the website at

http://www.powerplaces.com.



Interactive Dreaming

Interactive Dreaming is a new and unique multimedia software

program, combining a dream journal and database with user

tutorials and interactive exercises, all aimed at integrating

personal dreamwork with individual creativity, spontaneous

learning and intuition. Extremely easy to navigate and use,

Interactive Dreaming is the first dream software program to take

full advantage of computer multimedia capabilities, incorporating

sound, moving images and dreamer participation with a wide range

of practical and informative materials, including a bibliography

and references to dream-related web sites. The main menu is

divided into fourteen modules representing different aspects of

dream theory or dreamworking, visually arranged around an image

symbolizing the human mind. Subject areas include an

introduction to dreams, the language of dreams, journalling,

intentionality, building skills, creativity, personal change,

improving recall, nightmares or frightening dreams, solving

problems, pleasurable or helpful dreams, dreamwork, pre-lucid

dreaming, and lucid dreaming & beyond. Dreamers can follow the

path of the modules in a linear fashion for a progressive

instruction in dreamworking techniques, or can select a module at

random based on the demands of the dream itself. Each module

includes text, audio, interactive activities, tools and concepts.

Of special interest are several guided visualizations and a sound

recorder which enables the dreamer to enter voice notes about

their dreams. Interactive Dreaming was created by Ann Klein, a

licensed marriage and family therapist, who received the idea

through a dream incubation, and who was guided by her dreams

throughout the entire development and production process. Whether

you're a therapist, an experienced dreamer or a novice

dreamworker, Interactive Dreaming offers a highly synthetic

approach to understanding and working with dreams in a holistic

manner. For more information, contact Interactive Dreaming, P.O.

Box 4381, Englewood, CO 80155, Telephone 303-773-0832 , email

dreamcd@usa.net or visit the website at http://www.dreamcd.com.





=== A S D

D R E A M I N G U P D A T E ===

The Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD)

www.asdreams.org

1. New Web Site

2. 1998 June Conference in Hawaii - Presentation Deadline Dec 1

1997

3. Dreams and Film Online

4. Continuing Education Program for Hawaii Conference

5. Information on Dreams and Dreaming

6. Dream Art Gallery

1. ====== We've Moved.

You have probably noticed this. ASD now has its own domain

www.asdreams.org. Many thanks to the GMCC server for housing us

since 1995! The benefits of having our own domain include having

shorter URL/addresses to type in, but more substantially the

ability to move around without having to change a million

addresses each time. So who changed the million URL's this time?

Yes, my little fingers are aching, but we won't have to do that

again! If you maintain a Web site, please update your links to

www.asdreams.org

2. ====== 1998 June Conference in Hawaii - Presentation Deadline

Dec 1 1997

.

If you would like to go, drop by the Web site and check the

details. Early

next year the program will be available. If you would like to be

part of the program and present, the deadline is December 1st,

1997. This is for Papers, Symposia, Panels, Focused Discussions,

Workshops, Artwork, and General Events. Firm deadline for receipt

of submissions is December 1, 1997. Who May Submit? Anyone with

an interest in dreams is invited to submit a proposal for an ASD

conference presentation. The program committee seeks diverse and

high-quality proposals from any area of dream study. Such

proposals should not have been previously presented at an ASD

conference. All presenters must be registered for the conference

(for registration information, contact the ASD Central Office).

Unless registered, presenters' names will not appear on the

preliminary program. Students are especially encouraged to

participate and present their research. A limited number of

registration waiver scholarships will be awarded to student

presenters. If you wish to apply, attach a copy of your student

ID and a letter indicating your interest along with your

submission. Http://www.asdreams.org/asd-15.htm

3. ====== Dreams and Film Online

Its finally online! Deirdre Barrett Dream Videophile has been

collected

for you to search out your favorite dream movies or find one

that you have never heard of before now. The Editor's Notes from

Alan Siegel are also being updated.

Http://www.asdreams.og/videofil.htm. (for more Dreams and Film,

visit The Dream Tree's "Dreams on Film" webpage at

http://www.dreamtree.com/film.htm)

4. ====== Continuing Education Program for Hawaii Conference

From Alan Siegel October 25, 1997

RE: CE PROGRAM FOR THE HAWAII CONFERENCE With the deadline for

submission

rapidly approaching (12-1-97), I am putting out a request for

submissions to the conference that would potentially be eligible

for CE credits. I am encouraging submission of symposiums,

events, and workshops that would have content relevant for post-

graduate and professional training especially for

psychotherapists and educators. These symposiums, sorkshops etc.

can also be relevant to everyone else and will not necessarily be

limited to those professionals

attending the conference and seeking CE units.

For more go to http://www.asdreams.org/cu97001.htm

5. ====== Information on Dreams and Dreaming

SEARCH the ASD web site. Pick a topic and the search function

will return

all the links on the site that have the keyword you are looking

for. Try it out! Http://www.asdreams.org/search.htm

6. ====== Dream Art Gallery

Each year ASD selects the best of the best and offeres an

exhibition at

the conference. But now you can see slides of these dream

inspired art pieces at the ASD Art Gallery 97. If you were having

trouble getting your pictures

to load when you selected the thumbnails - it was not your

borwsers fault.

These pictures have now been fixed and are available for

viewing. Most were working. Soon we will display a new art piece

each month on the front page.

Http://www.asdreams.org/galery97/97art01.htm

===============================================================

The Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD),

http://www.asdreams.org

ASD, P.O. Box 1600, Vienna, VA, 22183, Phone: (703)-242-0062

Fax:(703)-242-8888





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R E S E A R C H & R E Q U E S T S

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<<<<< Enigmatic "Winged Horse" Study

Searching for persons interested to join in the Study of a most

fabulous "Mega Dream".... Some 16 years ago, I was the victim of

a puzzling dream in which I mounted and flew on the spiritual

Winged-Horse "Pegasus"... similarly to Mohammed in the year 621

of this era and the Greek hero Bellerophon in times immemorial...

who both also did the same in time preserved "Most Famous

Dreams". If Carl C. Jung was around, he would be more than

delighted to analyze this particular and most revealing

"Historical Dream" which, in late Greek Antiquity was INTERPRETED

as... hold on to your hat...an ALLEGORY of the IMMORTALITY of the

SOUL!!! Therefore, anyone interested in most fundamental

existentialist questions wishing to seriously investigate the

rational logic behind this Ancient Greek belief are more than

welcomed to join this "no strings attached" open e-mail group

study. Simply contact Gérald D'Aoust,the group Animator, at

gdaoust@icrdl.net and you will be supplied with the dream and

gradually, on a weekly basis, with the most incredible universal

data coming with the Magical Horse....

Finally, from your own individual analysis you will be requested

to draw your final conclusions upon this enigmatic dream subject.

Considering this Wonderful Horse to be a symbol of spiritual

freedom..." Feel free to join the Winged-Horse Dream Study "

Looking for Hearing Impaired Dream Research

I am looking for any research information that has been done on

how people with hearing impairments dream. I am also interested

in finding out where dreams and language are processed in the

brain. If you could direct me to a site where I can find this

information, or can answer these questions, it would be greatly

appriciated. Michella Maiorana <MaioraM@FLAGLER.EDU>



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W E B S I T E & O N L I N E U P D A T E S

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<<<<< Dream Translations

http://home.earthlink.net/~johnsonsaga/dream1.html

Join Shelley Johnson in exploring the realm of YOUR dreams --

Shelley offers dream translations, both web-wide and private,

including a once-a-month guest translation by Wilda B. Tanner,

author of The Mystical Magical Marvelous World of Dreams. For

more information, contact Shelley Johnson

<johnsonsaga@earthlink.net>

CyberDreamWork

http://www.cyberdreamwork.com

There is a new site for dreamwork following techniques

established by Robert Bosnak, author of "Tracks in the Wilderness

of Dreaming", and a Jungian analyst. The site gives a brief

orientation to Bosnak's dreamwork, gives an explanation of his

approach, gives links to other sites, a schedule of workshops,

and how to set up phone chats on the Internet.

Psychology and Film

http://www.cgjung.com/filmx.html

Enjoy a psychological approach to films at the C.G. Jung Home

Page's "Psychology and Film" page. This wonderful site includes

psychological commentaries, psychological themes in film, several

calendars of upcoming and recent film festivals, film news,

online reviews and links to film web sites.





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D R E A M C A L E N D A R

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Jeremy Taylor in Cyberspace

http://www.jeremytaylor.com

Jeremy Taylor, author of "When People Fly and Water Runs Uphill",

has just unveiled his new website. Full of

detailed information on his work, conference/workshop schedules

and dream activities, as well as recommended

reading lists, the site is easy to navigate and a pleasure to

view.









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D R E A M C A L E N D A R

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Dec 1-Jan 4 in Mountain View, CA

"Mystical Dreams", watercolor paintings and prints by Susan

St.Thomas at 324 Castro Street, Mountain View, CA. Phone 650-

988-9800

Dec 5-7 in Lexington, KY

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Paula Raines at 606-

226-0130 for more information.

Dec 10 in Pittsburgh, PA

The Dream Workshop here in Pittsburgh will be meeting

at 7 p.m. on the following Wednesdays: October 8 & 22, ~

November 12 & 26 , and December 10 at 4836 Ellsworth Avenue

(Friends Meeting House), Pittsburgh 15213 fax (412) 241-1451; or

e-mail netcadet@nauticom.net

Dec 14 in Concord, MA

"Dream Council & Solstice Celebration" and community solstice

potluck, hosted by Dick McLeester. For more information, contact

The Dreamwheel, 191 Sudbury Road, Concord, MA 01742-3423.

Telephone 508-369-2634. Email Dreamwheel@compuserve.com

Dec 28-31 in Seattle, WA

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Clancy Kelly at 360-

574-1454 for more information.

Jan-Jun 1998 in Carpinteria, CA

"DreamTending" -- a six-month professional training. For more

information, contact Pacific Graduate Institute, 249 Lambert

Road, Carpinteria, CA 93013. Phone: 805-969-3626. Fax: 805-565-

1932.

Jan 2-4 in Rowe Camp, MA

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Doug Wilson at 413-

339-4468 for more information.

Jan 3 in Novato, CA

Bay Area Holiday Dream Bash, 6pm-midnight. Call 415-897-7955 for

more information

Jan 9-11 in Boulder Creek, NV

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Sharon DeSanza at 702-

293-7500 for more information.

Jan 16 - Mar 27 in Santa Cruz, CA

Dream Studies Certificate Program, Twin Lakes College of the

Healing Arts, 1210 Brommer St., Santa Cuz, CA 95062

(408) 476-2152

Jan 16-17 in Jackson, MS

Jean Benedict Raffa, Ed.D., author of Dream Theatres of the

Soul, will lead a workshop on dreamwork at the Episcopal

Conference Center. For more information, contact Joyce Simmons.

Phone: 601-982-5287; Fax: 601-981-9335.

Jan 16-18 in Sacramento, CA

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Shirley Hewitt at 916-

421-3051 for more information.

Jan 30-Feb 1 in Jacksonville, FLA

Dream Workshop with Jeremy Taylor. Contact Ed Brock at 904-723-

5523 for more information.

Jan 30-Feb 6 in the Caribbean

Dream Cruise to the Caribbean. Call Power Places Tours for more

information: Outside California at 800-234-8687; In California at

714-487-3450, or visit the website at http://www.powerplaces.com.





== D R E A M S S E C T I O N == ED V4 N11 ==



** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **

D R E A M S SECTION INDEX BY BOB K. (For ED V4N11)



Hi there! Welcome to ELECTRIC DREAMS - DREAMS SECTION for

Vol. 4 Number 11.

Highlights from this issue: Take a WALK WITH CHAN for a trip to a

magical site which actually exists, and listen to advice for the

living from the other side. Have you ever had a Falling dream?

Relive the experience with THE ARCADE. Share a journey through

space and time in MOUND O DAD in the HOTEL section. Check out

DIRECTIONS for suggestions on dealing with some of this issues

dreams from a directional perspective. GOD comes to our pages in

REVELATION under RELIGIOUS RELATED. Again, several Car related

dreams were submitted. They are included in the VEHICLE section -

from moving cars to cars in parking lots. How is the car in your

life doing? Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate this event.

Enjoy your visit to the pages of Electric Dreams.

NEW CATEGORIES:

(None this month)

EDITORIAL:

CHANGING SEASONS

Welcome to another Electric Dreams Dream Section - our

Thanksgiving Special. It is the end of Fall and beginning of the

Winter season where I live near Washington, DC. Our lawns and

streets are filled with leaves that have fallen from the trees.

There are so many of them. The trees they fell from look so

bare. They look dead, yet an unseen life still flows within. The

Sea Gulls have already started to arrive on their annual winter

vist from the deserted Atlantic seashores. It's amazing that I

can foretell that at the end of the Winter, new leaves will

appear and green lushness will again encircle our neighborhood

and the lake behind our home. When it heats up again, they will

go back to their homes. Snow is about to make it's yearly

appearance. Familiar patterns recur, yet every year brings a

unique story. Dreams share that characteristic.

Have you found a pattern in your dreams? Have you discovered the

issues which are the trees of your life sprouting leaves again

and again, revisting or developing themes of your life? We all

have themes in our dream lives as well as in our waking lives.

Every once in a while, another tree in our forest grows and

matures, contributing to the internal environment and to the

growth of our multidimensional being. At Thanksgiving, I give

thanks for both my external and internal life. Many of my

dreams- nocturnal and waking- have come true, or helped me

understand the issues my life touches. Yet, there are more out

there awaiting the right time to manifest or to contribute their

leaf to the symphony of dreams. I look forward to the richness of

the dreams to come be they my own or shared from others that

become a part of me. I hope I can see their messages, and

navigate the car of my life along a safer course.

Happy Thanksgiving Day! Thanks for reading.

Bob Krumhansl

Dreams Section Editor

THANKS

Thanks to all the dreamers who share their gems with the Electric

Dreams community, and the dream appreciators who share their

insight. Join in the fun and send us a dream or comment for the

next issue!

FEEDBACK FROM THE DREAMERS

COMMENTARY ON DREAMS FROM PREVIOUS ISSUES

(Up all night? Can't go to sleep? Read one of the old issues and

send us your commentary - what if it were your dream? What does

it tell you? The issue might even help you go back to sleep!!)

NEW DREAMS:

PRECOGNITIVE/FUTURE DREAMS [Stories from past experiences, or

send them in before it happens, if you can]

REPETITIVE DREAMS [Significant by nature]

DREAM TRACES IN WAKING LIFE [The effects of external stimuli on

our dreams or is it the other way around - our dreams leaving a

trace on our physical reality?]

DEFYING CLASSIFICATION [Your stumpers may not be so mysterious to

others]

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

LINKS TO STAGES OF LIFE

BIRTH [Starts]

** Dream: Two Blind Baby Dreams by nobody (971120) **

== Commentary by Bob K. on Two Blind Baby Dreams (971122) ==

CHILDHOOD [Early development]

ADOLESCENCE [Maturing, testing]

ADULTHOOD [The main event for most]

OLD AGE [Wisdom, Approaching the Journeys end]

DEATH [Endings]

COMMUNICATION WITH THE DEAD [Beyond our terrestrial limits]

** Dream Story : A Walk with Chan ..... by Madelynn (971116)**

==========================================

==========================================

AGGRESSION [By us or against us- crossing others paths]

** Dream: 'The Pits' by FR (971113) **

== Commentary by Bob K. on The Pits (971122) ==

** Dream: My brother dream by Mush Head (971113)**

== Commentary by Bob K. on My Brother Dream (971122) ==

ALIENS [Visitors or visited - creatures from other dimensions]

AMUSEMENT PARK [A place to relax and enjoy, another reality]

ANGELS [Visitors from Spiritual dimensions]

ANIMALS [Basic Instincts]

[This month brings us: Cattle, goats, and a fish of another

kind...no turkeys!]

** Dream : Harvesting Cattle by DreamTemple/nobody (971122)**

BATHROOMS [Maintenance, Cleansing and Elimination]

BELONGING [What we are associated with or wish we were]

BRIDGES [How we get across an obstacle or go from here to there]

CELEBRITIES [The well known - famous and infamous]

CLOTHING [What we wear tells us about ourselves and the events we

participate in]

COMEDY [With an accent on puns, funny situations or jokes]

COMMUNICATIONS [From telepathic to devices to signs & symbols]

COMPUTERS [Extensions of our minds, mind tools, communication]

CULTS [Somewhere out there ...]

DIRECTIONS [Ever stop and ask for directions? North, South,

East, West, up, down, ahead, behind, straight, turn, right, left,

make a circle, cross, go through, open, close, mix, add, boil,

cook, simmer, but most of all - follow these instructions

carefully...and don't be shy about asking someone else down the

path, except, of course, for the Big Bad Wolf!!!]

== Commentary by Heratheta on arcade drm (971112) ==

== Commentary by Heratheta on auto drm (971109) ==

== Commentary by Heratheta on brother drm (971121) ==

== Commentary by Heratheta on arcade drm (971028) ==

== Commentary by Heratheta on amazons drm (971115) ==

== Commentary by Heratheta on god drm (971116) ==

DISCOVERY [New insights and unexpected developments]

DREAMING [Dreams about dreaming]

DRUGS [Healing or Hurting?]

EATING [Getting nourishment for maintenance, growth and pleasure]

ELEVATORS [Going UP or DOWN - Push the right button or else...]

ESCAPE [Get me outta here!!!]

EYES [The organs of sight...the window to the soul...]

FEAR [What scares us]

** Dream: 'The Arcade' by the Pinball Wizard (971111)**

== Comments from Nutcracker (& DreamUp) on 'Arcade' Dream by

Pinball Wizard (971112)==

FOOD [The source of our physical nourishment]

FIRE [Flames bring light, heat and destruction/transformation]

FLYING [Confidence, Power, Freedom & Perspective]

GIFTS [Offerings to or from others]

HOBBIES [Our interests and desires]- COLLECTING THINGS

HOLIDAYS [Time off to ...]

HOSPITAL [A place for treatment, healing and repair]

** Dream: Hospital Visit by DreamTemple/nobody (971120) **

HOUSE [Where our lives take place]

HOTELS [Temporary Dwelling or Special Event location]

** Dream: Mound O Dad by Mermaid (971115) **

JOURNEYS [Missions away from our home base -explorations]

LOST [Disorientation or abandonment]

LOTTERY DREAMS [Sudden Wealth - Randomness favors the

dreamer]

LOVE [All around us, yet so hard to find and keep]

LUCID DREAMING [Knowing you are Dreaming when you are Dreaming]

MEMORY [Remembering ...In dreams we often struggle with the issue

of memories and remembering a dream which by definition involves

the process of recollection.]

MIRRORS [Reflection of Self]

MUSIC [Melodies of the land within]

NUDITY [What you see is what you get]

PERFORMERS [Entertainers]

PROBLEMS [Situations or difficulties sometimes present choices]

POLITICAL SCENE [Public issues through positions of power]

RELATIONSHIPS [Other parts of ourselves including family which

constitutes the first and earliest of our relationships, often

influencing how we relate to the outside world]

** Dream: Amazon War by Penthesileia (971114)**

RELIGIOUS RELATED [The Ritual and the Spiritual]

** Dream: "Revelation" by AngstRidn (971114) **

ROMANCE [Thrills and Chills, lost in another]

SCHOOL THEMES [Learning and learning related trials]

SOLUTIONS [The answers to problems or quandaries]

STAIRS [Bridges between levels, between the upper and the lower]

TEETH [Ok, losing teeth is one of the top ten dreams people have

questions on. Theories on what they mean range all over the

spectrum of possibilities.]

TORNADOS [Pretty well defined destructive power of nature]

TRAPPED [Temporarily helpless- Sometimes we are paralyzed or

imprisoned by jobs, relationships or expectations]

VEHICLES [Means of transportation, reflection of lifestyle]

** Dream" Multi-story Car Park" (971031)**

== Commentary on Multi-story Car Garage by Bob C. (971101) ==

** Dream: Auto-matic Travel by Lorelei (971109)**

** Dream: Shot To Death by DreamTemple/unknown (971028) **

WATER [A magical earthly fluid, nourishment, cleansing]

WORKPLACE [Where we make a living]

WRITING & WRITERS [Communication and creativity]

==========================================

==========================================

FEEDBACK FROM THE DREAMERS

COMMENTARY ON DREAMS FROM PREVIOUS ISSUES

(Up all night? Can't go to sleep? Read one of the old issues and

send us your commentary - what if it were your dream? What does

it tell you? The issue might even help you go back to sleep!!)

NEW DREAMS:

PRECOGNITIVE/FUTURE DREAMS [Stories from past experiences, or

send them in before it happens, if you can]

REPETITIVE DREAMS [Significant by nature]

DREAM TRACES IN WAKING LIFE [The effects of external stimuli on

our dreams or is it the other way around - our dreams leaving a

trace on our physical reality?]

DEFYING CLASSIFICATION [Your stumpers may not be so mysterious to

others]

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

LINKS TO STAGES OF LIFE

BIRTH [Starts]

** Dream: Two Blind Baby Dreams by nobody (971120) **

I had two dreams featuring a baby with no eyes. This

child had, I think, been born blind, and had had its

eyes gouged out by some malicious child.

== Commentary by Bob K. on Two Blind Baby Dreams (971122) ==

In my dream, the babies would represent new developments in my

life. Born blind would indicate that the new developments are

somehow handicapped, with no external vision sense to guide them.

A malicious younger part of myself has contributed to their

condition. Was it out of jealousy, or fear? What new things in

my life am I afraid of? Will I care for these new interests?

Must I seek help elsewhere?

CHILDHOOD [Early development]

ADOLESCENCE [Maturing, testing]

ADULTHOOD [The main event for most]

OLD AGE [Wisdom, Approaching the Journeys end]

DEATH [Endings]

COMMUNICATION WITH THE DEAD [Beyond our terrestrial limits]

** Dream Story : A Walk with Chan ..... by Madelynn (971116)**

I arrived at Valyermo Wednesday eve exhausted both physically and

emotionally. The monk that checked me in could tell I was

drained. He showed me to the room, a small cubicle with bed and

desk and porch and said before leaving, "You seem very troubled,

may you find the peace you are hunting for, it is here if you are

still and quiet and let it come to you." I knew what he meant but

for the moment I was too drained to care.

Valyermo is a small retreat center run by Benedictine Monks from

China. Established in the Mojave Desert about 60 years ago by

Chinese Monks escaping the Red Guard. It is self sustaining,

eclectic and open to all faiths. The monastery is very quiet,

there are no TVS, no radios and no talking permitted on the

grounds except in designated meeting rooms - so there is only the

sound of the persistent desert wind and the movement of

small desert animals. This inviting silence is broken only by

the monks who sing mostly Gregorian chants four times a day. The

music is rich, holy and deep, it seems to fill the entire desert

with beauty. The "Source" is everywhere here in "concentrated"

form, if you know what I mean, there is just a peace that

permeates the mind and the soul.

Before retiring, I walk a bit around the grounds, visit the

chapel and try to clear my head. I practice a few movements I

have learned in my Tai Chi class. The moon is visible but only

from behind clouds that are moving in - rain is coming. The Yang

part of the day is coming to a close, this is not a good time for

practice, I remember, but it feels good and I need to center so

badly. The moonlight casts shadows everywhere, one could call it

a bit spooky but I do not feel fear, I am too depressed to care.

I start crying spontaneously and I can not seem to stop. Damn

hormones, I say to myself - on top of everything else, I am

hormonal too - grrrrrrrr...... One of the monks, Brother Wang,

hears me and comes over to see if I am all right but I can not

speak, I can only sob on his shoulder. He sits with me saying

nothing, holding me and rocking with me till I can no

longer cry. He does not try to disturb me with questions nor

does he use platitudes, it seems to be OK to be needy and

tearful. There is no rebuke, no "should be's," no questions but

there is a very strong flow of chi from this elderly man and he

reminds me of Chan. I wish Chan was here now but I tell the monk

that he died 4 years ago. The monk assures me that he is here,

if I just quiet myself long enough to hear him. I am grateful

for the thought, but I quickly dismiss it. I thank the gentle

soul for his comfort and I head toward my room to rest.

I don't think I have ever fallen asleep as quickly as I did that

night. I started dreaming almost immediately, I think, and it

wasn't long before I was dreaming of Chan. There he was ... In

the dream. We talked for a long time, we laughed again, we worked

on the hospital garden again, we had long walks again. Although

I was aware that I was dreaming, it just felt so real. The

mind is a powerful thing. We talked about the decision not to

continue with transfusions, to let "nature" take its course which

was weighing heavily on my mind before going to sleep. He did not

seem angry or disappointed with me, he heard me out and I did

"carry on" ... It is interesting that I can recall such details

from a dream. I rarely do! But he tells me to "Harken" - my

decision is premature. My work is not done as much as I would

like it be and that "giving up" just because I am tired is not in

my best interest. I argue and argue well but he, as always, can

quickly cut through my rationalization.

I ask him, what is it like to die, Master? He says, "Do you

remember when you were a child and you would fall asleep in front

of the TV but wake up in your own bed, it is much like that." I

say, "Really, I heard that same description in a TV show

recently, ...hmmmmm? So - We do retain an identity?" I ask.

"Well you are talking to me," he says. "But you are

only a dream I am having," I say back. He says, "Then I have

retained enough of an identity to be remembered in your dream."

I am stunned even in the dream. "Death is nothing to fear (and

you never have) but neither is life," he says, "Life is not just

the activities of living, it is also the un or subconscious mind

as well! Sure the struggle seems overwhelming right now but you

have the strength to do this. Your faith alone will carry you, it

is very strong. Let it manifest itself in how you manage the

struggles and how you grow with them. All of this is not for

naught, Everything furthers ......" I laugh, we laugh. The rest

of the dream becomes more clouded but I awaken very early to the

sound of the rain. I am renewed and I remember the dream in

minute detail.

After breakfast, I find the gentle monk, Brother Wang, who had

comforted me last night and tell him of the dream. He listens

quietly. I ask him if maybe it was more than a dream, a vision

perhaps?. He says," It is what it is. Your heart seems mended,

your mind clearer and you are calmer. You have reached a decision

of some sort,?" he asks. "Yes," I say, "I decided to live." He

smiles and says, "Then the dream or the vision has become a way

of helping you come to terms with a life situation then?" I say,

"Yes, it was." He smiles and says, "The universe works in

mysterious ways," I smile and agree with him.

Then he says, I noticed your prayer shawl, are you Jewish? I

say, "Sort of a Taoist Jew, if that makes any sense to you" he

laughs loudly and says, "most of us old monks here from China -

are sort of Taoist Christians - so yes it does make sense!" He

then recommends that I wrap myself in my prayer shawl and go

meditate down by the duck pond under the shelter. Listen to the

rain, he says, hear it splash in the pond and hear the sounds of

the day. Drink in the life around you and go back to your home

this afternoon ready to take on the challenge of whatever lays

ahead. I say thanx and head out .....

I can hardly wait to get to the pond. And people actually believe

there is no God/Tao - right!





==========================================

==========================================

AGGRESSION [By us or against us- crossing others paths]

** Dream: 'The Pits' by FR (971113) **

I am walking hand in hand with my boy friend, and then I get

pushed into a pit by one of my friends.

== Commentary by Bob K. on The Pits (971122) ==

In my dream, a special relationship is sabotaged by one of my so

called friends. Am I being helped or hurt by being forced into

the confinement of the pit? Will my boy friend help me? It sure

feels like the "pits" down here!

** Dream: My brother dream by Mush Head (971113)**

My brother was trying to kill me. I had to kill him first. I

was crying. I've had this dream 2 times with different settings.

== Commentary by Bob K. on My Brother Dream (971122) ==

In my dreams, I am upset by the dilemma of conflict with my

brother. I have brothers in real life as well as brothers within

me. I just have to cry. We are in a battle, and only one can

survive. He has started the violence, and I must defend myself.

Do we really need to kill each other? Maybe if we can talk, we

can work things out. How can I get through to my brother? What

does he like? How could I show him that I can help him?

ALIENS [Visitors or visited - creatures from other dimensions]

AMUSEMENT PARK [A place to relax and enjoy, another reality]

ANGELS [Visitors from Spiritual dimensions]

ANIMALS [Basic Instincts]

[This month brings us: Cattle, goats, and a fish of another

kind... no turkeys.]

** Dream : Harvesting Cattle by DreamTemple/nobody (971122)**

I am in the country with a friend we are harvesting and gathering

cattle. Then we harvest the cattle picking up the heads of the

cows that are laying around. We put two goats in the next

paddock.



BATHROOMS [Maintenance, Cleansing and Elimination]

BELONGING [What we are associated with or wish we were]

BRIDGES [How we get across an obstacle or go from here to there]

CELEBRITIES [The well known - famous and infamous]

CLOTHING [What we wear tells us about ourselves and the events we

participate in]

COMEDY [With an accent on puns, funny situations or jokes]

COMMUNICATIONS [From telepathic to devices to signs & symbols]

COMPUTERS [Extensions of our minds, mind tools, communication]

CULTS [Somewhere out there ...]

DIRECTIONS [Ever stop and ask for directions? North, South,

East, West, up, down, ahead, behind, straight, turn, right, left,

make a circle, cross, go through, open, close, mix, add, boil,

cook, simmer, but most of all - follow these instructions

carefully...and don't be shy about asking someone else down the

path, except, of course, for the Big Bad Wolf!!!]

== Commentary by Heratheta on peace drm (971116) ==

of course there is a place of peace and it is to the right or

left of your dream's location and of course conflict has a name,

the name of the dream which in this dream is "could tell" those

who dream this dream and seek peace, seek peace to the left or

right of the monastery from where they dreamt this dream while

avoiding the name of the dream in their thoughts and deeds and

the thoughts and deeds of others. those who seek conflict will

proceed to the monastery and with their thoughts and deeds call

on the conflict incarnate unto and into themselves which side of

the cosmos are you on? conflict or peace? from my personal

experience if find that the overwhelming majority of people are

on the side of conflict.

== Commentary by Heratheta on arcade drm (971112) ==

avoid "no money" and thoughts thereof in a place to the right or

left of the grassy field until the next dream

== Commentary by Heratheta on auto drm (971109) ==

from where you dreamed this dream to a place right or left of the

foreign country in your dream until the dream to follow this

dream I would travel avoiding "allowed" in thought and deed

== Commentary by Heratheta on brother drm (971121) ==

if I have this dream I try not to be hard to find and I would

seek that peace in the places to the left or right of the

hospital in the dream from where I had dreamed it but only until

my next dream

== Commentary by Heratheta on bed drm (971028) ==

this dream tells me to avoid being "solid" and to seek comfort in

my frailties to the left or right of the foot of my bed traveling

even out of my room to the left or right of the foot of my bed.

== Commentary by Heratheta on amazons drm (971115) ==

avoid blocking yourself or others if you can and seek peace to

the right or left of that doorway

== Commentary by Heratheta on god drm (971116) ==

avoid if you can going around town ordering today and to seek

peace travel away to the right or left of the areas god was in.

DISCOVERY [New insights and unexpected developments]

DREAMING [Dreams about dreaming]

DRUGS [Healing or Hurting?]

EATING [Getting nourishment for maintenance, growth and pleasure]

ELEVATORS [Going UP or DOWN - Push the right button or else...]

ESCAPE [Get me outta here!!!]

EYES [The organs of sight...the window to the soul...]

FEAR [What scares us]

** Dream: 'The Arcade' by the Pinball Wizard (971111)**

In my dream, I was standing in a grassy field with a crowd

of people and an arcade game. They wanted me to play it,

but I told them I had no money. Then my dad came out of

nowhere. Next, the ground sloped into a building and I fell

down the side of the building. I kept falling until I woke

up.

== Comments from Nutcracker (& DreamUp) on 'Arcade' Dream by

Pinball Wizard (971112)==

Hi Pinball Wizard (are you a Tommy fan?):

I entered your dream into my DreamUp software and came up with

the following:

Symbol : Crowd / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

When three or more people appear in a dream they are considered a

crowd. Whenever a crowd appears in a dream the dreamer is being

told that a decision needs to be taken. Generally the dream

tells us what decision we should take.

Symbol : Game / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

Is this a game you often play and you are good at or are you

being forced to play and one in which you don't do well? Are you

sure of winning or afraid of losing? Find the relation with

this game and a situation in your waking life. There are probably

more clues in your dream as to what the game is really about.

Symbol : Person / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

In the majority of cases all other people involved in a dream

will represent some aspect of the dreamer. People we don't know

but seem to be like someone we know will also represent some

aspect of the dreamer. People that we don't know at all represent

something new, a new aspect in the dreamer's life. When the

person in the dream is someone we recognize then we must stop to

think what this person represents to us ( attraction,

intelligence, stupidity, etc.) or if we have some kind of

influence over this person ( emotional, financial, etc.) or maybe

he/she has something that distinguishes him/her ( shy,

trustworthy, etc.). Whichever the case, whatever you feel that

person is symbolizing, the dream is usually about you. In other

words, if you see someone who you think is highly intelligent,

the symbol will be about your own intelligence. It is also

important to notice the gender of the dream person. A male will

represent masculine energy; rationality, creative boldness,

enterprise, courage. A female or feminine energy stands for

feelings, intuition, relatedness, sensitivity and the like.

Sometimes the dream will actually be about the relationship with

the other person, but it is safer and more objective to see them

as a representation of yourself first. Take responsibility for

what you project on a dream person and learn from what they are

teaching you about yourself.

Symbol : Father / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

For Jung the father symbolizes one of the archetypes. A potent

symbol of authority, power and order. Then again it might have

something to do with your actual relationship with your father.

Symbol : Buildings / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

Buildings of any type are usual in dreams and they represent the

dreamers physical body. In real life the body is the house of our

thoughts, feelings, desires and beliefs.

Symbol : Stairs / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

Stairs or anything that permits you to move up and down like

elevators, ladders, hills, ramps, etc. suggest either progress or

regression. The act of going up means an advance in some aspect

of life or in some situation or the gaining of a goal. While

going down represents the contrary a regression or depression in

life. If your dream begins in a low level and ends up in a

higher level this will mean you are on the right track. If the

opposite is true then the problem hasn't been solved and may be

getting worse.

Symbol : Falling / Meaning from Dream Dictionary

Normally the act of falling suggests failure or the loss of

control on life. With frequency it has something to do with work

or the situation one is living at work. This dream symbol

usually comes with a sense of fear. What are you afraid of

falling into ( falling in love, falling from grace, etc.) ?

I hope this helps!

Nutcracker

[BK- Thanks to Nutcracker for sharing some of the wisdom out of

the extensive dictionary (which can be modified to include more

terms and alternate meanings) cited in the copyrighted @DreamUp

Software. We have reviewed DreamUp in a previous edition. For

more information on the colorful and user friendly DreamUp

Software program, including a demo, visit their Web Site at

http://www.dreamup.com

DreamUp is available directly online at a special introductory

price of $19.95. You can also purchase DreamUp by mail order at

an introductory price of $29.95 + shipping & handling which

includes the printed manual and installation disks. DreamUp

requires the following hardware and software:

486 / 25 MHz or better

4 MB RAM (8MB recommended)

Windows 3.1 or Windows95

8 MB of hard disk space.

If you already have and use DreamUp, consider sending us a review

of your experience with it. DreamUp is just one of several Dream

related software packages currently available as tools to help

with recording and understanding our Dreams.]

FOOD [The source of our physical nourishment]

FIRE [Flames bring light, heat and destruction/transformation]

FLYING [Confidence, Power, Freedom & Perspective]

GIFTS [Offerings to or from others]

HOBBIES [Our interests and desires]- COLLECTING THINGS

HOLIDAYS [Time off to ...]

HOSPITAL [A place for treatment, healing and repair]

** Dream: Hospital Visit by DreamTemple/nobody (971120) **

I was in a hospital, visiting my brother (I don't have one in

reality). It took me quite a while to find the ward. I found it

opposite a large theatre or cinema which was called "The Theatre

of Nature" or "The Nature Dimension". A group of patients sat

there watching scenes of nature. I was quite tempted to go in,

but I had to see my brother. The ward had pretty tight security.

I spoke to the nurse who granted or denied access to it, asking

her what kind of ward it was - I didn't know what was wrong with

my brother. She replied "This is the ward of the angel-people".

At first I thought that this was a kind euphemism for the

terminally-ill. But it turned out to be a ward for people who

had been injured during sexual acts, including masturbation.

== Commentary by Bob K. on Hospital Visit (971122) ==

In my dream, a Hospital is a place of healing, corrections and

recovery. Across from the Theatre of Nature is a part of me

which is one of the Angel People. This part of me had been

injured somehow during a sexual act which is may be perceived as

devilish rather than Angel-like behavior. Sex is natures way of

encouraging reproduction. Nature endows sexual activity with

strong feelings of pleasure with ultimate aims of rewarding life,

and through male/female intercourse ensuring the continuation of

the species.

HOUSE [Where our lives take place]

HOTELS [Temporary Dwelling or Special Event location]

** Dream: Mound O Dad by Mermaid (971115) **

I had a busy night's dreaming last night.

I was staying at my childhood home as though it were a motel.

Others - possibly my husband, but definitely people I'd met since

living there, were with me. I don't think my children were with

me.

It was morning (just dawn) and I went walking in the back yard,

which seemed to extend further back than I remember and had a

dark treed back corner. There was a mound of dark soil piled up

and when I went to investigate, out came my father, dusting the

dirt from his clothes, muttering sheepishly about having had too

much red wine. I wasn't scared in the dream about him coming

from the earth.

My childhood home was a more convenient location to go onto the

University where it was enrollment time. I wanted to take just

one Psychology class (I don't remember what it was called) and

joined the queue to enroll. Someone, possibly my husband again,

had to remind me to write down that I already had a basic degree;

that I had done much of this procedure before.

Then we went to the Cafeteria. It had become hot and sunny by

then and I wanted a drink and an ice cream. There were many

people walking around the grounds and buildings of the

University. I assumed I would just be anonymous among them.

Before I could reach the counter to choose an ice cream, two

girls came in calling out my maiden name and "Stephen Fish".

They were blonde, no nonsense types; reminiscent of people I have

met who are firm in their Christian beliefs. I had no idea who

Stephen Fish might be, but approached them because they had said

my name of another time.

They had arranged for me to go to San Francisco on the next

flight, to meet people in person whom I'd previously only met in

Cyberspace. I didn't know why a "current project" that had been

organized this year should have involved the "old me",but went

along with their plans.

First though, I still wanted the drink and ice cream, so I went

up to the counter, where there were two dark haired Italian women

in their 40s (at a guess) who were bantering lasciviously about

their latest younger male sexual conquests. They made remarks

about fancying Stephen Fish, but did not enlighten me about who

he was. I did have a lovely white ice cream in a cone, then I

was "just in" San Francisco. It could have been anywhere

really; it was just a motel room. It was cooler and night time

again.

I was waiting for my friends from Cyberspace to arrive, but felt

so tired that I got into the bed in the motel room and went to

sleep.

JOURNEYS [Missions away from our home base -explorations]

LOST [Disorientation or abandonment]

LOTTERY DREAMS [Sudden Wealth - Randomness favors the

dreamer]

LOVE [All around us, yet so hard to find and keep]

LUCID DREAMING [Knowing you are Dreaming when you are Dreaming]

MEMORY [Remembering ...In dreams we often struggle with the issue

of memories and remembering a dream which by definition involves

the process of recollection.]

MIRRORS [Reflection of Self]

MUSIC [Melodies of the land within]

NUDITY [What you see is what you get]

PERFORMERS [Entertainers]

PROBLEMS [Situations or difficulties sometimes present choices]

POLITICAL SCENE [Public issues through positions of power]

RELATIONSHIPS [Other parts of ourselves including family which

constitutes the first and earliest of our relationships, often

influencing how we relate to the outside world]

** Dream: Amazon War by Penthesileia (971114)**

There's a conflict raging, a war between two tribes of Amazons. A

statue of Hesta or Hespa blocks the door to a small room where my

female adversary and I are. We're arguing rather than fighting;

we may even be on the same side. I move the head of the statue

away so I can leave. As I'm climbing down a ladder (the room is

elevated above the city), the woman looks down on me and says,

"You know, Jane was your sister." She means to hurt me with this

comment, because Jane just died in the fighting. She hopes I'll

feel a tremendous loss at having lost my sister, and finding out

too late the nature of our relationship. Instead, I take strength

at having the knowledge now, at knowing the truth. I look up at

the woman and I say, "Thank you for telling me." My reaction is

not what she expected, and the animosity between us cools

as we return to the conflict.

RELIGIOUS RELATED [The Ritual and the Spiritual]

** Dream: "Revelation" by AngstRidn (971114) **

God, in (male) human form, was going around the town telling

everyone to meet at a specific time, at a certain place the

following day. We (my family) gathered up food (roasted

chicken), clothes and whatever items we could fit into a small

bag to take with us. The place we were to all meet had stadium

seating built into a hillside, overlooking a lake or ocean. The

next day arrived and we hurried to get into our seats. Far up in

the sky, off to my right, the clouds began rolling furiously,

turning this way and that and they were in beautiful colors of

melon and gold. Amidst the clouds came God, riding in a white

chariot. There was a mermaid standing behind him wearing a green

sequined mermaid type outfit. As we sat there waiting for God to

pass above us and take us either to heaven or hell, I said to the

people on either side of me, "I wonder if I'll go to heaven?

I've never killed anybody and I'm truly sorry for anyone's

feelings I've ever hurt." Although I had already seen and heard

God speak (in the flesh), I was afraid that I wasn't worthy

enough to meet him face to face and by all rights, he should shun

me. In an instant, people were gone from the stands, some to

heaven (me) and some to hell. Others were left behind, like my

sister, so that they could stay on earth and start a family

before God came back for them in three years time. (11/13/97)

ROMANCE [Thrills and Chills, lost in another]

SCHOOL THEMES [Learning and learning related trials]

SOLUTIONS [The answers to problems or quandaries]

STAIRS [Bridges between levels, between the upper and the lower]

TEETH [Ok, losing teeth is one of the top ten dreams people have

questions on. Theories on what they mean range all over the

spectrum of possibilities.]

TORNADOS [Pretty well defined destructive power of nature]

TRAPPED [Temporarily helpless- Sometimes we are paralyzed or

imprisoned by jobs, relationships or expectations]

VEHICLES [Means of transportation, reflection of lifestyle]

** Dream" Multi-story Car Park" (971031)**

Why do I always dream about multi-story car parks? Night after

night I have the most boring dreams imaginable. Last night, for

instance, I dreamed that I had lost my umbrella in a John Lewis

cafeteria, only to find it again (to my relief). Then I left via

an overpass (connected to a closed restaurant with a poster for

an hotel that looked plush) and that was it. Before, I have

dreamed about car-parks, shopping precincts, dull old shops, and

the like. I can not remember what happens, just that what does

happen is of little consequence. What does this tell me?

== Commentary on Multi-story Car Garage by Bob C. (971101) ==

Possibly the dreamer feels emotionally "parked" in his life.

Even if in some area of his life he advances or "goes up" a level

he still feels "parked." An umbrella is a form of protection, so

it is perhaps no unusual that he is relieved when he recovers his

protection. But what is the dreamer protecting himself from? If

the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation it is wrong.

Only the dreamer knows.

Bob C.

'What we do in dreams we also do when we are awake: we invent and

fabricate the person with whom we associate - and immediately

forget we have done so.'

FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE

** Dream: Auto-matic Travel by Lorelei (971109)**

Please put me on your email addresses..I am a dreamer.....last

dream...I am in a foreign country and I allow my car to travel by

itself up an incline, my purse and other personal items are in

the car...I have sent the car up there and then I can't find the

car. I look for policemen, but they move away from me..I see the

back of one cop and he is wearing a yarmucie, a Jewish

skullcap..I feel like I am in Israel.

** Dream: Shot To Death by DreamTemple/unknown (971028) **

I was walking down the road when a car passed and shot me

to my death.

WATER [A magical earthly fluid, nourishment, cleansing]

WORKPLACE [Where we make a living]

WRITING & WRITERS [Communication and creativity]

== == == == == == == == == == == ==

DREAM SERIES

(None this month)

== == == == == == == == == == == ==

Well, that's all for now Folks. Happy Thanksgiving!

See you in ED 4.12.

Hasta La Vista!

Bob Krumhansl

bobkrum@erols.com

== == == == == == == == == == == ==





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